He could have said, and should have said, that while he disagrees with the idea of burning the Qur'an, he would defend the liberty of Americans and the principle of freedom of expression. He could have said that anyone who murders an innocent person in Pakistan or Afghanistan or anywhere else because of this is entirely responsible for the murder, and Terry Jones and the other Qur'an-burners bear no responsibility for the actions of others. He could have said that to threaten violence and to commit acts of violence because of this is irrational, it's madness -- and, for that matter, it confirms the image of Islam as a religion of violence that Obama himself is so anxious to refute.
Instead, he surrendered American principles and semaphored once again that violent intimidation works.
"Obama implores minister to call off Quran burning," from AP, September 9:
..."If he's listening, I hope he understands that what he's proposing to do is completely contrary to our values as Americans," Obama said. "That this country has been built on the notion of freedom and religious tolerance."
That's why Jones ought to be able to do what he wants.
"And as a very practical matter, I just want him to understand that this stunt that he is talking about pulling could greatly endanger our young men and women who are in uniform," the president added.Said Obama: "Look, this is a recruitment bonanza for Al Qaida. You could have serious violence in places like Pakistan and Afghanistan." The president also said Jones' plan, if carried out, could serve as an incentive for terrorist-minded individuals "to blow themselves up" to kill others.
"I hope he listens to those better angels and understands that this is a destructive act that he's engaging in," the president said of Jones.
Indeed. But a more destructive act would be for any Muslim to harm anyone, Jones included, because of this.
http://onfaith.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/panelists/shmully_hecht/2010/09/fair_and_equal_treatment_for_islam.html#comments
At least Hussein isn't pretending that Islam is "peaceful."
What's your point?
I guess that with this logic Obama believes 9/11 was due to American foreign policy.
"This country has been built on the notion of freedom and religious tolerance."
That's why Jones ought to be able to do what he wants.
That's why Jones should burn any damn book he wants to burn.
Why does no-one mention the fact taht thereis a ritual burning of the Cross every year in Saudi Arabia? It is attended by members of the Royal Family and attracts huge crowds. Please, someone talk about this deeply disturbing event at this time when muslims are accusing us of islamophobia. This ceremony has name which I forget, but it is a major annual event in SA.
Well, people - Terry Jones might be backing down.
I just turned on the News - Today Show - and a featured story coming up is that Jones has said "if he receives a call from the WH, he might change his plans."
Then Meredith Viera asked, "But will the president pick up the phone?"
Hmmm.
Imam: Handling of Islamic center plan a matter of national security
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/09/09/new.york.islamic.center.imam/index.html?hpt=C1#fbid=KyZhds_D-Ee&wom=false
Scroll approximately 8 minutes, 20 seconds into the video.
She (the interviewer) asks Imam Rauf about funding: "Will you turn down money from who say give money to Hamas?"
Rauf: "Absolutely!"
Interviewer: "Anyone who supports Hamas cannot give money to you...."
Notice how he begins hedging......
'Living in fear of the Religion of Peace', The Movie...Now playing at a theater near you...
Chapter 10, Rasulullahhaha Obama speaks...
"I hope he listens to those better angels and understands that this is a destructive act that he's engaging in," the president said of Jones".
Rasool evokes the 'better angel', who would not condone antagonizing the 'Religion of Peace' to violence, versus that evil destructive angel who encourages such things...
Rasool teaches us a lesson in basic Angelology and demonology, clearly identifying pastor Jones as being demon possessed...Rev Wright must be proud...
Chapter 11 being written as I type...Watch for it...
Correction:
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/09/09/new.york.islamic.center.imam/index.html?hpt=C1#fbid=KyZhds_D-Ee&wom=false
Scroll approximately 8 minutes, 20 seconds into the video.
She (the interviewer) asks Imam Rauf about funding: "Will you turn down money from THOSE who say give money to Hamas?"
Rauf: "Absolutely!"
Interviewer: "Anyone who supports Hamas cannot give money to you...."
Notice how he begins hedging......
Uh Oh - our friend Congressman Peter King of New York just called the Koran burning "insanity" and called Terry Jones a "madman."
He didn't speak up for the principles of American free speech and expression as RS would have him do, just as Petraeus and Hussein should do.
That's a real disappointment in Peter King.
In addition, he was debating this "Zead Ramadan" character on "Today." In discussing the 9/11 Jihad Victory Mosque, Ramadan actually brought up Timothy McVeigh! Said: "Well, there shouldn't be any churches around the site of that attack."
Oh Good Grief. How many times do we have to say that: MCVEIGH WAS NOT A CHRISTIAN. MCVEIGH'S ACTIONS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH CHRISTIANITY. MCVEIGH DID NOT POINT TO ANY CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE TO SUPPORT HIS MURDEROUS ACTIONS.
ZEAD RAMADAN - ARE YOU LISTENING??????
It's so tough to watch the ignorance and stupidity on the lamestream media concerning Islam/Muslims. Arrrrgggg!
Also, this is so disappointing:
Reporter Kerry Sanders of NBC aggressively confronted Terry Jones in Gainesville asking for some direct quotes from the Koran that "offended" Jones.
Jones couldn't provide any.
Use these next time, Pastor Jones:
"Kill non-Muslims wherever you find them. Lie in wait and ambush them, seize and capture them using every stratagem of war." - Qur'an 9:5
"Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it Allah's." - Qur'an 8:40
"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs in return is the garden of Paradise: they fight in his cause and slay and are slain." - Qur'an 9:111
And so many more. Oh Good Grief he should have been prepared with some Jihad verses at-the-ready. Big disappointment, a wasted opportunity to get some Jihad verses over-the-airwaves.
Why is it alright for the Indonesians and Malays to burn churches in Indonesia and Malaysia and Saudis to shred Bibles and destroy crosses of any who has the temerity to bring into Sowdi Barbaria but not alright for some pastor to burn his copy of a Koran in his church. By the way how are the Muslims going to know that the pastor is actually burning a Koran and not some other book?
Why is it alright for the Indonesians and Malays to burn churches in Indonesia and Malaysia and Saudis to shred Bibles and destroy crosses...
It is because they are practicing their religion, which is their right as far as Rasool Obama is concerned...
Koran burning and showing images of Muhammad.
It's like catnip for Islam.
The Pastor should use the media attention that he has gained in highlighting the koran's heinous message to its followers.
And also mention to mainstream media that when it comes to building the ground zero mosque, obama says it is their legal right but when it comes to burning a koran, obama talks about understanding muslim sensitivities.
Ugh, what a wimpy prez.
Yea, what the Sheik said.
If Chicago Jesus would permit rules of engagement that actually allowed our warriors to do their jobs ~ kill the enemy and break his stuff ~ then a koran burning here and there would flush that enemy out and create quite a target-rich environment. And this freakin' pissing contest would be over.
Zerobama hasn't asked Cleric Rauf, Dandelion Kong, or Sharif el-Puke to move the planned victory mosque away from GZ though, has he?
Reverend Jones can now distinguish himself from the blackmailing Feisal Abdul Rauf -- who claims he must go forward with the mosque project because to do otherwise, at this point, would "endanger national security." He can call off the Qur'an burning, and substitute for the burning a Qur'an Reading, in which he will simply read out two dozen of the most chilling verses, and explain that it was these, and a hundred others, that so disturbed him and that he thinks ought to be form the basis of a discussion of Islam, and whether or not it is a religion at all, within the meaning of the First Amendment.
Show reasonablenness where Feisal Abdul Rauf -- having now made what I think is a fatal mistake in attempting to blackmail Americans into abandoning their opposition to the mosque -- shows himself to be more and more sinister.
But use the occasion to begin discussing not some vague thing called the Qur'an but particular passages from the Qur'an. For now, forget the Hadith and the Sira, and just start enlightening people as to the contents of the Qur'an. And make sure they also know, as Wafa Sultan keeps reminding us, that the Qur'an is even more violent and vicious in the original Arabic, and toned down considerabbly in non-Arabic, especially English and French, versions.
Reverend Jones has it in his power to present himself not as what I called, in a posting yesterday, a stock figure in the modern American Commedia dell'Arte, the Southern holy-rolling narrow-minded fire-and-brimstone Preacher Man. He has it in his power to contribute his mite to the pedagogic edifice that has to be built, all over the Western world, to make people understand the full meaning, and menace, of Islam.
I doubt if he will rise to the occasion. I fear that he won't. But he might. One never knows, do one?
Well Mr Obama makes it clear the first amendment is for muslims only, noone else need apply.
Zerobama hasn't asked Cleric Rauf, Dandelion Kong, or Sharif el-Puke to move the planned victory mosque away from GZ though, has he?
If it has not been crystal clear until now, it is evident to the entire world that the muslims have the whip hand over the West. Like battered hostages with Stockholm Syndrome, our elites bleat that we should not antagonize our captors. What does such behavior lead to? Why more beatings of course. I've reluctantly come to the conclusion that we need more muslim-confronting activities to begin to break down the Stockholm Syndrome we're suffering from. It is only when the hostages' eyes are wide open that they can begin to heal and take action to end the kidnapping. With more muslim-confronting activities, by observation of muslims' violent reactions, all can see the reality of the dangers we face.
On a small scale, whenever I pass a muslim, I bless myself with the sign of the cross. It shows them that I'm in the Resistance, and asks for Christ's best defense.
"...You could have serious violence in places like Pakistan and Afghanistan.."
And right now we have what..a studio audience for the Howdy Doodie show? Besides what does the Qur'an or Islam have to do with religion?
Oh by the way, feel free to burn or mutilate as many Bibles or Torahs as you can get, there won't be so much as a heavy sigh from the rest of the world.
It's not only undignified for the President of the United States to say what Obama has said, but it is tactically a bad move. He, in his influential capacity as President, is lending the perception of credibility to the idea that the Florida reverend Jones is somehow to blame for the completely unjustified violence that could be carried out by some Muslims, or by the possible increase in Islamic terrorist recruitment, that could occur in response to the proposed Quran-burning exercise. Obama is rewarding the jihadists and kowtowing to sharia law.
perhaps Obama can call the imman to tell him to move his 9-11 mosque somewhere because it will make Christians upset to build it where they want, but then we dont burn mosques down and pillage their places, but the AMerican Christian can vote out the bumms!!
I'm surprised that Obama hasn't offered the White House as an alternative location for the Cordoba mosque.
Just a reminder about the Piss Christ
Piss Christ is a 1987 photograph by photographer Andres Serrano. It depicts a small plastic crucifix submerged in a glass of the artist's urine. The piece was a winner of the Southeastern Center for Contemporary Art's "Awards in the Visual Arts" competition,[1] which is sponsored in part by the National Endowment for the Arts, a United States Government agency that offers support and funding for artistic projects. Wikipedia
I don't remember the presidential warnings that the US national security would be jeopardised by this "stunt" in 1987. Indeed it was supported by the United States government.
I think we may need to thank the Florida pastor for showing up the hypocrisy. Indeed that is exactly why the freedom of speech and its defence is so important.
Cross burning in Saudi Arabia? Is it by the royal klavern of the Saudi Ku Klux Klan? All Abdullah has to do is substitute a pointy dunce hat for the rag wrap and presto! An ersatz Imperial Wizard.
In other news, Obama has now asked the Ground Zero Mosque builders to move to a different location so as not to continue to inflame the ire of non-muslim Americans...
Oh wait, that was a dream. I just woke up. Sorry.
He can call off the Qur'an burning, and substitute for the burning a Qur'an Reading, in which he will simply read out two dozen of the most chilling verses, and explain that it was these, and a hundred others, that so disturbed him and that he thinks ought to be form the basis of a discussion of Islam, and whether or not it is a religion at all, within the meaning of the First Amendment.
And he could do that in front of correspondents from all "mainstream" media outlets... And let those monkeys (especially Nicholas Kristof, Stan Grant, Hala Gorani, Keith Olbermann, Joe Scarborough, Chris Matthews, Fionualla Sweeney and the rest of the al-CNN gang pimping their month-long Mahoundian-in-2010 ramadan special coverage) reconcile "slay them wherever you find them", "smite at their necks" and such savagery with their mantra-like claims that mahoundianism is a "religion" of peace.
So why aren't we going crazy about this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_m0FQ6GdGVM&feature=player_embedded#!
What's the difference?
Could it be that they really are kneejerk mentalists whipped so easily into a fury?
Are they the the biggest cry babies in the world with their tantrums and juvenile threats?
The raging inferiority complexes of these backward nomads bans them from any rationality and rather than attempt at improving their own lot they seek the rest to bow to their level.
Reading another, the latest on Rauf's threat confirms this.
"And as a very practical matter, I just want him to understand that this stunt that he is talking about pulling could greatly endanger our young men and women who are in uniform,"...
So he thinks that the mohametans are irrational hot heads who explode into violence at the slightest excuse? What is he? Some kind of Islamophobe?
nabi ZK (pbum)
How do you know that Jones reads Spencer?...And even if he does, is he not responsible for his own actions and behavior?
Is Spencer somehow responsible for any ones behavior? Does Spencer practice black arts where he controls millions through his writings...by sending them coded and secret messages on how to think and act...
No way Jose...Spencer is powerful, but he's not 'that' powerful...If he was, it would be easy for him to program into each of his million or so brainwashed servants the overwhelming desire to send him $2.00 a month...If he has that ability, I would pay him to tell me how to do it...
Diana West on her blog reminds us of the official U.S. Military policy on handling Korans -- a policy that was enforced (if not implemented) under the Bush Administration as well:
From the text of the Joint Task Force Guantanamo’s standard operations procedures (SOP) on how to handle the Koran:
#4 b: "Two hands will be used at all times when handling the Koran in manner signaling respect and reverence. Care should be used so that the right hand is the primary one used to manipulate any part of the Koran due to the cultural association with the left hand. Handle the Koran as if it were a fragile piece of delicate art."
http://www.dianawest.net/BlogArchive/tabid/56/Default.aspx
Posted earlier:
The Founding Fathers of the United States of America must be turning over in their graves. This must be the first president of this great nation who bows to the enemy. What would Jefferson think? This is our vaunted Commander in Chief sworn to defend "We the People"? This is outrageous.
More from the U.S. Military's policy on handling the Koran -- these being meticulous instructions on how to avoid disrespecting the Koran while simultaneously searching Korans for dangerous implements that Muslim detainees might have inserted in them. If that doesn't crystallize in a microcosm the entire West's posture with regard to Islam, I don't know what does.
Here goes:
...
b. The Koran will not be touched or handled by the MP.
c. The Chaplain or Muslim interpreter will give instructions to the detainee who will handle the Koran. He may or may not require a language specific interpreter.
d. The inspector is examining so as to notice an unauthorized items, markings, or any indicators that raises suspicion about the contents of the Koran.
e. The inspector will instruct the detainee to first open the one cover with one hand while holding the Koran in the other thus exposing the inside cover completely.
f. The inspector instructs the detainee to open pages in an upright manner (as if reading the Koran). This is a random page search and not every page is to be turned. Pages will be turned slowly enough to clearly see the pages.
g. The inspector has the detainee show the inside of the back cover of the Koran.
h. The detainee is instructed to show both ends of the Koran while the book is closed so that inspector can note the binding while closed paying attention to abnormal contours or protrusions associated with the binding. The intent is to deduce if anything may be in the binding without forcing the detainee to expose the binding, which may be construed as culturally insensitive or offensive given the significance of the Koran.
i. How the detainee reacted, observation by other detainees, and other potentially relevant observations will be annotated appropriately on the block significant activities sheet as well as staff journal.
4. Handling.
a. Clean gloves will be put on in full view of the detainees prior to handling.
b. Two hands will be used at all times when handling the Koran in manner signaling respect and reverence. Care should be used so that the right hand is the primary one used to manipulate any part of the Koran due to the cultural association with the left hand. Handle the Koran as if it were a fragile piece of delicate art.
c. Ensure that the Koran is not placed in offensive areas such as the floor, near the toilet or sink, near the feet, or dirty/wet areas.
-- Again, from Diana West's blog:
http://www.dianawest.net/Home/tabid/36/EntryId/1506/Clean-Gloves-Yes-Bonfires-No.aspx
Good God, there's more:
b. If a Koran must be removed at the direction the CJDOG, the detainee library personnel or Chaplain will be contacted to retrieve and properly store the Koran in the detainee library. ...
c. If the Chaplain, librarian, or Muslim interpreter, within the needs of the situation, cannot remove the Koran, then the MP may remove the Koran after approved by the DOC (who notes this in the MP Blotter) IAW the following procedures:
1) Clean gloves will be put on in full view of the detainees prior to handling
2) Two hands will be used at all times when handling the Koran in manner signaling respect and reverence.
3) Place a clean, dry, detainee towel on the detainee bed and then place the Koran on top of the clean towel in a manner, which allows it to be wrapped without turning the Koran over at any time[,]in a reverent manner. Ensure that the Koran is not placed in offensive areas such as the floor, near the toilet or sink, near the feet, or dirty/wet area when doing this activity.
http://www.dianawest.net/Home/tabid/36/EntryId/1506/Clean-Gloves-Yes-Bonfires-No.aspx
"What do we think of the fact that Robert Spencer's work has heavily influenced Pastor Jones? What does Robert have to say?"
I haven't seen that. Please provide a reference to substantiate your assertion.
I sincerely doubt that Pastor Jones has read Spencer.
Now if this burning "does" go ahead (it won't) there will be (and there probably will be even if it doesn't go ahead) a like for like retaliation from the Muslim world.
There will be a Bible burning. But instead of just one person setting the fire it will probably be more likely thousands of people starting the fires. All shouting Allahu Akbar!
Oh yes, CNN and the BBC will show Muslims saying "oh we wouldn't do that - the Torrah and Bible are holy to us too - we wouldn't disrespect them" and the brainwashed masses will believe their Taq-tics.....
I'm getting sick of all the appeasement.
Our forefathers who dies in 2 World Wars are probably looking down from their clouds at us now - pointing at us and calling us pussies.....And all because of the PC bullshit that has been propogated since the mid 80s to weaken our resolve. This whole Muslim take-over has been in the works for decades now - 9.11 was just the alarm bell to get the troops into place.
Our leaders have a lot to answer for - THEY are the ones who plotted it. You see "Christianity" is weak in the West at the moment and the people are out of control; we need replacing with a more easily controlled subservient class.....
"CBS News posted a deposition from Terry Jones. About 100 pages into it, Jones talks about being influenced by Robert Spencer's book but doesn't say which one."
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-31727_162-20015853-10391695.html
So what? Please provide a reference in any one of RS's books where he advocates burning Korans. Waiting.
Kevin, when did you become a Leftist Apologist for barbaric Islam?
"I hope he listens to those better angels.."
Cut out the constant hand-me-down borrowings from Lincoln. Enough already. Write your own stuff. Make up your own immortal phrases for re-use by others. I do. And I'm not even President.
The POTUS fears more threat to soldiers in the Middle East?
So issue more ammo and change the RoE to counter the increased threat!
Duh!
"Good God, there's more:"
Hesp - it's just un-effing-believable.
I'm going to buy a small paperback "Mein Qurampf" today and throw it in the trash when I get home. I'll fumigate the car after.
Terry Jones' big mistake?
He didn't request a grant from the NEA first.
Free expression clerics will NEVER forgive that heresy.
"This must be the first president of this great nation who bows to the enemy."
What do you expect, from a President who wrote in his bestseller The Audacity of Hope:
In the wake of 9/11, my meetings with Arab and Pakistani Americans, for example, have a more urgent quality, for the stories of detentions and FBI questioning and hard stares from neighbors have shaken their sense of security and belonging. They have been reminded that the history of immigration in this country has a dark underbelly; they need specific reassurances that their citizenship really means something, that America has learned the right lessons from the Japanese internments during World War II, and that I will stand with them should the political winds shift in an ugly direction.
(p. 309)
The problem, however, is not so simple. It has the following ingredients:
1) The enemy is not delimited to a country, as in previous wars (Vietnam, Germany/Italy/Japan, etc.), but merges with fuzzy borders into a larger pool of over a billion peoples spread out all over the world
2) the vast majority among that larger pool of peoples look ethnic and hail from non-Western Third World cultures and regions -- therefore, they automatically trigger in the PC MC mind (which is dominant and mainstream throughout the West) irrational deference and respect
3) the same PC MC that is a factor in #2 also contains in its influential paradigm an irrationally excessive self-criticism of the West in a variety of ways, including a tendency to blame the West for pathologies we notice among non-Western cultures -- including, of course, Islam par excellence.
Thus, for example, one previous important (and rather recent) war did, in fact, involve more than merely a hostile nation: it involved a world-wide ideology, Communism, and innumerable fanatics with a resolve, and a demontrated ability, to infiltrate into the West in order to destroy the West, meanwhile trying to foment revolutions in various regions of the world in order to ignite a chain that would hopefully lead to the global destabilization of Capitalist hegemony, pending its downfall and replacement with Communism. However, in this case, #3 exerts itself again, for it has become an axiom of PC MC to denigrate the anti-Communist concerns and efforts of the 1940s-80s -- notwithstanding the counterpull of Reaganism.
Similarly, Japanese fanaticism during WW2 exemplified some of the same traits as the fanaticism we see among Muslims -- though in that case, Japanese were not spread out all over the world in a diaspora of hundreds of millions. There were, however, a certain number of Japanese in the U.S.A. at the time. It was rationally deemed necessary -- given what we knew about Japanese fanaticism, evil (they had massacred over 100,000 innocent Filipinos and up to a million Chinese in recent decades before WW2), supremacism, and trans-national solidarity -- that internment of Japanese-American citizens was necessary. We see in Obama's quote how he frames his pledge to defend Muslim-Americans against "ugly winds" in terms of using the internment of Japanese-Americans as a model of policies and mindset to avoid. And in that, Obama is not being a radical maverick: he is being quite average, given that probably most Americans, and Westerners, would agree with him that the internment of Japanese-Americans was a "shameful chapter" in American history, and thus anything that smells like it is going down the "slippery slope" toward such "shameful" policies must be avoided at all cost, lest we reverse the wonderful, but always tenuous, progress we have made toward Tolerance and Enlightenment.
Here's the idiotic State Department spokesman P.J. Crowley:
"We think that these are provocative acts," Crowley said. "We would like to see more Americans stand up and say that this is inconsistent with our American values; in fact, these actions themselves are un-American."
"We hope that between now and Saturday there will be a range of voices across America that make clear to this community that this is not the way for us to commemorate 9/11," he said. "In fact, it is consistent with the radicals and religious bigots who attacked us on 9/11."
......................
I have already noted that I am not in any way a fan of Terry Jones' chosen form of protest, but to compare bar-b-queing a few Qur'ans to the murder of almost 3000 innocent people is *grotesque*, and Crowley should be ashamed of himself for making any such comparison.
Pastor Jones isn't the first performance artist to express himself through with an Inferno.
A thought experiment: How long before Salvador Dali’s “blasphemous” caricature of Mohammed burning in hell is expunged from art history classes? How about Auguste Rodin? or Gustave Dore? Each of these artists caricatured Mohammed’s roasting in Hell— as related in Dante’s trilogy “The Divine Comedy” [Inferno XXVIII, 19-42]. http://zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/dantes_inferno/
The same forces that repeatedly plot to destroy the fresco of Dante’s Inferno in Bologna’s Church of San Petronio remain at work today. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/2205263.stm
And if academia is unwilling to stand in solidarity with Terry Jones, what’s to stop the global Taliban from silencing any and every expression Muslims deem “offensive”?
Archived depictions of Mohammed serve as a poignant reminder that such imagery has been part of Western AND ISLAMIC culture since the Middle Ages— and serve as a resource for those interested in defending free expression.
http://zombietime.com/mohammed_image_archive/
Hugh wrote:
"Reverend Jones can now distinguish himself from the blackmailing Feisal Abdul Rauf -- who claims he must go forward with the mosque project because to do otherwise, at this point, would "endanger national security." He can call off the Qur'an burning, and substitute for the burning a Qur'an Reading, in which he will simply read out two dozen of the most chilling verses, and explain that it was these, and a hundred others, that so disturbed him and that he thinks ought to be form the basis of a discussion of Islam, and whether or not it is a religion at all, within the meaning of the First Amendment."
I wholeheartedly agree. 9/11 should be declared, not just this year, but every subsequent year as is necessary, as international Read-A-Qur'an-Day.
Although Jones has served a small purpose, essentially throwing another log on the now roaring fire of the Islam debate, by his own admissions, he has not served the cause well at all.
He admits that his knowledge of Islam is scant and that he has hardly read the Qur'an itself. One will probably then logically conclude that his proposed actions are illogical and therefore based on some irrational prejudice.
Why would someone burn a book if they don't know what's contained therein?
Jones' folly here, in my estimation, is that he holds the position that Islam is evil, which it absolutely is, so please don't misinterpret my intent, but Jones has come to this conclusion, which he espouses as a tie-in to his Christian proselytizing, without even demonstrating the first example of how he draws that conclusion.
He has his merits, like I said, but simply because he has drawn publicly stated opposition from some very high-profile people, now all the way up to, and including the Ham-Hander-in-Chief, himself.
What Mr. Robert Spencer says in this entry is so apt and is of crystalline purity that every moral and rational human being on this planet should be honored to read it.
I find it remarkable that in this whole debate no one states the obvious.
It is as though the whole world has blinders on. (Of course none of us here at JW)
Is it not so blatantly apparent to most people in the world that there is something TERRIBLY WRONG with a ‘religion’ that is understood or (perhaps ‘misunderstood’?) that it just goes without saying that the followers of it will resort to physical violence and destruction if they feel that they have been offended?
That it is tacitly accepted by everybody, “to be careful to not offend Islam or you know what might happen”!
Now of course it is true that when they are offended (easily and often) they resort to physical violence and destruction. This has been as it were, empirically verified for centuries.
But why do not moral and rational people apparently never (or extremely rarely) state:
“To attack and kill people and reek havoc and destruction because you are OFFENDED is morally wrong. It is evil!”
Does the POTUS or General Petraeus state this to the masses in Pakistan and Afghanistan that they are so worried about exploding into murder and violence. No! Instead the POTUS chides Mr. Jones stating, "If he's listening, I hope he understands that what he's proposing to do is completely contrary to our values as Americans."
For better or worse, Mr. Jones is exercising his constitutional rights to burn their “holy’ book or any holy book or books. This is his right and for the POTUS to state that it is completely ‘contrary to our values’ is absurd!!
That is not to say that there is not a legitimate debate as to the utility of doing such an act. It may well be in poor taste, and not the best tactical and/or strategic way to criticize Islam. But Mr. POTUS do not tell me that this is against ‘our values’.
Whose values? It is ‘our values’ that people may do this. We have evolved out of the 7th century unethical mores and do not permit morally or legally individuals to engage in murder and destruction because their feelings have been hurt. “Poor Babies”
Civilized rational people do not go around engaging in acts of violence and murder because someone burns a book a Bible, a Torah etc. And that is what needs to stated unequivocally which is never done by our ‘”leaders” and leftwing PC Dhimmis etc.
Why not?
Apparently it is just assumed and so obvious that they will engage in these evil acts and there is no point in telling them that it is wrong, immoral and evil to do so.
It must be a lost cause to waste one’s time in even stating it.
We just have to accept that these people are so deranged, irrational and evil that they do these things when their feelings are hurt.
Well it may be that to state it, it probably won’t change anything with these 7th century unethical animals but it ought to be stated because it is true and it is morally right.
Apparently the taboo of not criticizing Islam is so entrenched (you might be a racist or you might be a bigot filled with hatred) that our ‘leaders’ and the leftwing PC Dhimmis cannot even permit this most basic truth to be stated.
I can only conclude that our ‘leaders’ and the leftwing PC Dhimmis are all now are so mired in self-hatred or fear that the TRUTH cannot be stated anymore? So we become just like Islam in its fear of the truth? Islam does not permit criticism of itself. Why are we becoming like them? Will we not stand up for who we are and what we believe in? Are we so afraid of the truth that we are willing to commit intellectual, cultural and moral suicide?
We better hope there is a God because we won’t save ourselves.
Thanks for that link to the Muslim plot to try to blow up the Italian basilica housing an "offensive" mural of Mohammed in Hell.
From that BBC article:
Police in Italy have arrested five people on suspicion of plotting to attack a church in the northern city of Bologna.
The men - one Italian and four Moroccans - were reportedly held after being seen filming in and around the city's San Petronio basilica.
[Just four Moroccan and one Italian "men", eh?]
The arrests follow reports in the Italian media that the al-Qaeda network was planning to bomb the basilica, which contains a fresco considered by some Muslims to be offensive.
The 15th Century work depicts the Prophet Mohammed being devoured by demons in Hell.
Police say those arrested were overheard expressing the hope that no one would understand their conversation in Berber, a North African language.
---------
In 1400 years, Islam's greatest achievement is blaming others for its own inadequacy. Kinda like Barack O'Carter in 20 months.
No Canadian Dhimmi,
Does the POTUS or General Petraeus state this to the masses in Pakistan and Afghanistan that they are so worried about exploding into murder and violence. No! Instead the POTUS chides Mr. Jones stating, "If he's listening, I hope he understands that what he's proposing to do is completely contrary to our values as Americans."
What is going on here is part of a very old pattern in Western liberal thought, that later morphed into Leftism, and has become mainstream in the past 50 years through PC MC.
The particular ingredient I refer to is amusingly ironic: it is the tendency to treat Third Worlders in a patronizing way -- not expecting them to be morally responsible for the actions they take, but treating them as though they were animals, or somehow lower than us, and thus exempt from the moral blame and standards we would impose upon ourselves.
What makes this ironic, of course, is that liberalism/Leftism/PC MC is so anxious to avoid "bigotry" and "racism", and also makes a big deal of condemning Western Colonialism -- and yet they are indulging in the same paternalism in their treatment of Muslims.
Petraeus thus is not treating the Muslims of Iraq and Afghanistan as human beings who are morally responsible for their actions -- but rather curiously as a nests or colonies of insects, such as wasps or hornets, which will flare up in violence if provoked.
The "Pastor" can't recall particulars. His overall impression of Islam is not good. Many will fault him because he is not a polished spokesmodel.
I don't know the specifics of how poliovirus attacks the body but all my children recieved the vaccine.
Obama, on the other hand, is one teleprompter eyeballin' super spokesmodel with a gaggle of spin doctors at his beckon call. It's one thing to screw the pooch. It's another to sell your country down the river. Nobel Prize. Caliph. His ego has room for more. Keep them coming, your just beginning to wet his appetite...
I omitted-
It's one thing to screw the pooch and claim victimhood you are being treated like a dog.
Sorry, ladies, but we in America are not concerned with violence in Pakistan and Afghanistan. Burn yourselves up!
Astonishing how so many conservative heroes have joined Petraeus and Obama in dhimmitude.
Can you imagine FDR saying Americans have to be careful what they do, acting within their rights and the law, for fear of angering the Japanese or the Germans?
Ronald Reagan telling Americans to watch what they say for fear of angering Brezhnev, Mao, or Castro?
Or Muammar Khadaffi, for cryin' out loud?
You see, this is where so many of you become hypocrites. You are opposed to an Islamic Center being built close to Ground Zero because it is legal but immoral, but you don't say anything when a crazy pastor burns a copy of the Quran even though it is legal but immoral.
This is why I rock and you suck. Not only do I support the right of this pastor doing this insensitive act, I also support the right of Muslims to build an Islamic Center even though it too is an insensitive act. Why? BECAUSE FREEEDOM OF SPEECH IS FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
The right and left in this nation are nothing but idiotic hypocrites who pick and choose their morality and unfortunately the same goes for some of you on here.
What's legal is legal - deal with it.
“The particular ingredient I refer to is amusingly ironic: it is the tendency to treat Third Worlders in a patronizing way -- not expecting them to be morally responsible for the actions they take, but treating them as though they were animals, or somehow lower than us, and thus exempt from the moral blame and standards we would impose upon ourselves.”
Yes, how sad and quite correct Hesperado.
The irony of how all these lefty/PC/Dhimmis always spout out about how all religions are the same, Islam is a religion of peace, we have to let them build the Victory Mosque because not to do so would be intolerant etc. They always pretend to be advocating equality in the application of standards that we hold in the West but observe the dichotomy in their thinking,”We cannot expect those third world Muslims to behave rationally and morally like us now can we?
And it would be insulting and disrespectful of us to even mention it!”
The POTUS states,
"And as a very practical matter, I just want him to understand that this stunt that he is talking about pulling could greatly endanger our young men and women who are in uniform," and "Look, this is a recruitment bonanza for Al Qaida. You could have serious violence in places like Pakistan and Afghanistan." The president also said Jones' plan, if carried out, could serve as an incentive for terrorist-minded individuals "to blow themselves up" to kill others.”
Maybe it is true that this ‘holy’ book burning will sadly increase the danger to our young men and women who are in uniform but there are principles that are even more important than whether our men and women in uniform are in danger or in ‘greater’ danger. Presumably these GREAT men and women in uniform are in uniform to stand for something!
One would presume they stand for the American way of life, the constitution, the rule of law, civility, and the philosophy of the founding fathers with all the freedoms they believed in and bestowed upon us.
Indeed why be in uniform if what it stands for is not worth being in danger?
Is that what the POTUS is saying, that this constitution, these values and rights are not worth being in uniform exposed to danger, and these aforementioned principles are not worth fighting for?
So the civilized, rational West with its new PC morality has come to this:
“When someone threatens you with murder and violence you give them what they want even if it means throwing out all your values, truths, rights, freedoms. There is nothing worth fighting and dying for.”
What a drastic moral change in 70 years!!
Obama and PC Dhimmis= Chamberlain with “Peace in our time”
Absolutely Pathetic!!
The pastor's point is one thing and THE point is another.
Whether he deserves it or not, and whether we deserve it or not, his freedom to piss off Muslims now stands for the freedom of any and all Americans to speak their minds, as fully as they wish, on any topic, in complete safety and with the full protection of the law and the sanction of a free people.
That freedom enrages Muslims.
And that is the problem.
They don't understand you don't get to kill somebody because he dissed you, your mother, or even your religion.
And, no, the gummint is not going to step in and punish somebody because he hurt your feelings.
Toughen up.
This is what freedom is like.
And it's worth fighting for.
The right and left in this nation are nothing but idiotic hypocrites who pick and choose their morality and unfortunately the same goes for some of you on here.
What's legal is legal - deal with it.
Yes, we have the right to choose, it is fundamental to our freedoms. Islam does not allow that right. They in turn insist their triumphalist mosque must be built regardless of the fact that most Americans, and New Yorkers, oppose its location. Sure, it may be 'legal' to build it there, but is it 'acceptable' to antagonize so many Americans with this 'bridge-building-community-center-mosque' where the Will of the People is totally ignored, or worse, responded to with veiled threats, that to refuse this triumphant mosque will mean them harm? So Islamic opinion is everything, but American opinion is nothing? We the People have chosen to reject this 'bridge building' mosque at 9/11 Ground Zero, threats notwithstanding. We have chosen to say "NO!!!" -- Deal with it.
The military's SOP on handling the Koran: "Handle the Koran as if it were a fragile piece of delicate art."
Fragile, indeed. Even the slightest rational inquiry will shatter it.
THE PRESIDENT'S WAR ON FREE SPEECH - Pamela Geller has put it very well
1. The burning of books is wrong in principle: the antidote to bad speech is not censorship or book-burning, but more speech. Open discussion ..And the truth will out.
2. If Americans are free and not under Sharia, then the church can do this if it wants, and their freedom and rights should be protected.
3. Obama is wrong to say this will threaten American troops. This is based on the false assumption that they are fighting us because we are doing things they don't like. Actually they are fighting us because of imperatives within the Islamic faith. They will never like us unless we convert to Islam or submit to Islamic rule.
4. "The principle of free speech is not concerned with the content of a man's speech and does not protect only the expression of good ideas, but all ideas. If it were otherwise, who would determine which ideas are good and where forbidden? The government?"
"Once a country accepts censorship of the press and of speech, then nothing can be won without violence. Therefore, so long as you have free speech, protect it. This is the life-and-death issue in this country: do not give up the freedom of the press -- of newspapers, books, magazines, radio, movies, and other forms of presenting ideas. So long as that's free, a peaceful intellectual turn is possible." Ayn Rand
Pastor Jones could do a better job of explaining why he intends to burn the Korans. However, would it matter in the end? It is unlikely the Media would even air the 20 some passages Hugh recommended to be noted. In my opinion, it is unlikely they would ever cover honestly a subject they have been keeping buried for ever.
We cannot expect to see the thrill gone and the bark muzzled now can we?
Yea, what he said.
Pastor Jones has now gotten the attention of the entire world with his announcement that he will burn the Koran.
What about the Muslim attitude to the Bible?
The Muslims forbid it to be brought into Saudi Arabia. They have zero tolerance for Christianity, Judaism or any other religion. In Afghanistan they blew up the symbols of Buddhism while the world stood by. They are murdering Christians in Africa.
Maybe it's about time that Americans fight fire with fire.
Why not burn a thousand Korans?
Have Koran burnings in every town and city in America.
The contents of this celebrated book are pure filth, calling for the death of us infidels, the rape of women, the stoning of anyone the criminal Muslims don't approve of, and on and on. To read the Koran is to realize that we are facing an ideology a thousand times worse than fascism or communism. They aim for world domination.
If ever a book deserved to be burned, this is it!!
http://www.jewishdailyreport.wordpress.com
Come to the rally on Satuday in NYC to show the world your feelings about the 15 story monument to Islam that will literally cast a shadow over the graves of those they murdered on 911 in the name of Islam.
The FBI has paid Pastor Jones a visit.... Lets see what happened.
This is off-topic, but check out what drivel has been put out by The Economist in one of their most recent opinion pieces:
If the emergence of home-grown Muslim terrorism has been bad enough, the failure of Barack Obama to engineer the transformation some expected from him in the wider world has been no less dispiriting. After the toxic impact of George Bush on Muslim opinion, many hoped that the advent of a kinder, gentler president whose middle name was Hussein would help America to draw the poison. Mr Obama himself seemed to think that this might be possible. Rahm Emanuel, his chief of staff, told the New York Times earlier this year that Mr Obama counted his Cairo speech to the Muslim world of June 2009 as one of the three most important things he had done to combat terrorism.
And yet Mr Obama’s programme of Muslim outreach is already faltering. The Pew Research Centre reported in June that the percentage of Muslims expressing confidence in him had declined in a year from 42% to 33% in Egypt and from 13% to 8% in Pakistan. The reason is not hard to fathom. Whatever expectations the Cairo speech aroused in the Muslim world have yet to be fulfilled. Like Americans waiting for economic recovery, Muslim countries have been waiting for Mr Obama to match his words with deeds, and have so far been disappointed.
And what expectations are to be fulfilled? What deeds are to match Hussein's words?
Replacing the US Constitution with sharia?
Putting Michelle and his two daughters in mobile-tents?
Sending 100% of US tax revenues and top-notch military equipment (with dhimmi operators and mechanics to make sure they'll be used properly against their countries of origin) to mahoundian lands as jizya?
Declaring himself caliph and doing away with freedom of speech and human rights?
Mohammad of Ghazni invaded India between 10-1200 and they burned down the library of Nalanda. There were so many books there that the place took three months to burn down. Muslim armies also burned down priceless collections of books in Iran, a fact some Iranians still rue. The general excuse given by various leaders was something on the lines of: If it is in the Koran, then the extra books are superfluous. If it is not in the Koran, then it is heresy. With such convenient logic, they blazed through and destroyed collections of books and manuscripts in preIslamic Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, Iran and Egypt.
With such a backdrop of book burnings behind them, when their holy book is about to be burned it is supposed to be the end of civilization as we know it.
No Muslim was threatened with death when the Bamiyan Buddhas were destroyed. One Muslim woman said "what's the fuss, it's just stones" ...
Who is offering to provide us with more entertainment? The Pastor, the news or the Musliims? God knows that Muslims have experience burning books with less fuss being made about lives being lost as long as they were non muslims or blasphemers or unbelievers among several denominations including people who are or were nominally Muslim.
raven, I'm glad you brought up the subject of Serrano's "Piss Christ". It suggests to me that what Rev. Jones ought to do, instead of burning Korans, is to drop them into big jars of urine. The jars could be sold as collectibles ["only 5000 will be made before the molds are broken"] for a good price. Preferably the jar would be filled with pigs' urine. Or dogs' urine. Or 5000 of each ["buy both, get the set"]. If the sales are a big success, the exercise could be repeated using the Hadiths instead of the Koran.
"Q: What books do you recall consulting about this?
A: I think it was mainly just the book there from Robert Spencer.
Q: Remember the name of that?
A: No
So, he remembers reading something of Spencer's. He also says he was influenced by "Garrett Wilder." I think he means Geert Wilders who will be at the 9/11 rally against the mosque."
LOL! Nice try, Muslim Apologist Kevin!
Why don't you just go join the Muslims? Good Riddance.
RJ,
you think you rock? Hardly! In your effort to be broad-minded it seems that your brain has fallen out on the ground in a disheveled, feverish heap.
The planned mosque is not immoral. It is grossly offensive, but not immoral. Objects do not have morals (good or bad). I suppose one could possibly call the planned mosque "ammoral", but never "immoral".
It is not immoral to burn the koran or any other book, either. Offensive? Yes. Immoral? No. There is nothing inherently evil in burning a collection of pages bound together into a book. The fact remains that burning books, flags, effigies, etc is a protected activity under the US Constitution/Bill of Rights.
Humans are generally the only things that can be truly considered "immoral". Other animals cannot be immoral since they are governed by instinct instead of having the mental ability to reason between right and wrong. They exist in a state of natural grace, even though they may occasionally perform unpleasant acts like snacking on hikers or pets. They cannot sin because they do not have the mental capacity to do so. Only we are capable of sin. Only we are capable of evil.
By our standards, mohammed and those who imitate him are immoral. By our standards, Rauf is immoral and perhaps even evil for a number of reasons.....deceitfulness, tacit support of terrorist organizations that target non-combatants, ill-treatment of the humans who live in his rental properties, failure to pay his taxes, etc. He is also "offensive" for these and other reasons, like his smarmy demeanor.
You're "crazy," RJ, Mohammedan. Crazy!
Oh, and you SUCK.
In addition, you're an idiotic INSENSITIVE hypocrite. So, BUG OFF, MOHAMMEDAN CREEP.
Stop the 9/11 Jihad Victory Mosk! It's inappropriate, indecent, and IMMORAL.
You don't "rock," RJ - YOU SUCK. JUST LIKE ISLAM.
"The planned mosque is not immoral. It is grossly offensive, but not immoral."
Yes it is. It's an immoral edifice that preaches the mass-murder of non-Muslims. It's immoral as all-get-out:
"Kill non-Muslims wherever you find them. Lie in wait and ambush
them, seize and capture them using every stratagem of war." -
Qur'an 9:5
"Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion
be all of it Allah's." - Qur'an 8:40
"Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their
goods; for theirs in return is the garden of Paradise: they fight
in his cause and slay and are slain." - Qur'an 9:111
Muslims/Islam mass-murdered 3,000 Americans on 9/11/2001. Any Islamic edifice on that sacred ground is IMMORAL.
This pastor is a fool just like Robert Spencer has said. He has ruined a lot of good work, and the dhimmi press will go overboard about how wrong this is. Like in India, what is happening in Deganga is being completely buried, it is not on the TV channels, not in the papers, and not on the front pages of any mainstream media websites. Instead we have big headlines about how wrong the pastor is to offend muslims. In india. Which is not even a muslim country.
William Ewart Gladstone (1809–1898) was Prime Minister of Great Britain four times: 1868–74, 1880–85, 1886 and 1892–94. He called the koran an “accursed book” and once held it up during a session of Parliament, declaring: “So long as there is this book there will be no peace in the world.”
I'm glad someone has brought up ....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Piss_Christ
At the time I didn't fully understand the larger social implications of this, but now I do. Did anyone die because of "Piss Christ"? No, in fact it was produced with public funding. Do the stupid liberals not know their own freaking history? Do they lack the logic of say anyone older than a 3 year old, do they not understand the social implications of what is going on here?
"This pastor is a fool just like Robert Spencer has said. He has ruined a lot of good work"
I don't believe RS has called the Pastor a "fool." Please provide a reference for that, if you can.
And, no, the Pastor hasn't "ruined" nuthin'. He's exactly right to oppose Islam, and brave. MANY in the U.S. support him.
There shouldn't be any Islam in America, and there shouldn't be any Korans' - except for why Jefferson owned one, to "Know the enemy."
"Obama asks Florida pastor to call off Qur'an-burning: "You could have serious violence in places like Pakistan and Afghanistan"
But...but...Hussein - isn't Islam a "religion of peace?"
LOL!
You misunderstood the point of my post, please read again. I agree that there should be no muslims in america, or anywhere else in the world for that matter. And Robert Spencer has called the burning "tactically stupid", it was me calling the pastor a fool, for reasons given, and in this post by Spencer.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/09/indonesian-islamic-supremacists-threaten-retaliation-for-florida-quran-burning.html
"This pastor is a fool just like Robert Spencer has said." - nishant
That's what you said, verbatim. I didn't "misunderstand" anything.
"it was me calling the pastor a fool" - nishant
OK - now, that's the truth.
"I agree that there should be no Muslims in America, or anywhere else in the world for that matter." - nishant
Definitely not in America, and an over-populating violent plague on the rest of the world, in which everyone else has to live in fear.
Dude, the point I was trying to make, is that this is going to allow muslims to play at being the victims. Islamic atrocities are going to be ignored even more (google Deganga), and the dhimmi media of the world is going to have more ammo to fight genuine critics of islam. This whole thing makes the fight against islam more difficult. Thats why RS called it "tactically stupid", because this is not the way to fight islam.
I agree with Hugh - he should get all the media there with all his congregation carrying flaming torches and then maybe get them to illuminate passages from the Koran in big letters and read those out. Given there will be live coverage in all likelihood, that would mean there was no censorship at that point. It is actually v. difficult to get the Koran into the MSM ironically!
The entirety of Obama’s chosen war strategy hinges on one premise: To win the hearts and minds of the Afghan people. The assumption is that people of islamic countries can and will some day love America. If this is not so we will fail miserably in the long run. The very doctrines of islam and it’s prophet who murdered for conquest and commanded violence by those loyal to the koran will forever undermine any long-term hope that the supremacist aspirations of islamic countries will be ever be checked voluntarily. Thereby Obama and Petraus are in fact sacrificing what must be a long term goal, our future security , for the short term appeasing of frothing mullas and deranged islamic zombies;.
Dude, the Muslims ALWAYS "play at being the victims." What else is new?
Islamic "atrocities" are ALREADY "ignored." What else is new?
Who cares what the "dhimmi media" have to say? They're idiots.
Let's see - the Muslims' burn the American flag, the Bible, and effigies of American "Infidels." Muslims are no strangers to "burning."
Give 'em a taste of their own medicine.
Any way to fight Islam is the right way.
Dude, you don't have to reply. I don't feel like dealing with you. Thanks, dude.
Here's one about 'rights'
http://townhall.com/cartoons/2010/09/09/a776aa6f-1cf9-40da-8b8d-fcd389fed82a
Yet Obama will defend the 'rights' of a Muslim GZ mosque builder and simultanously deny them to a Christian Pastor.
No prizes for guessing which side Hussein dresses. I guess!
"The assumption is that people of Islamic countries can and will some day love America."
Dear Mohammedan Hussein:
Ever heard of the Qur'an's dehumanization of unbelievers as "apes and swine" (Qur'an 2:63-66; 5:59-60; and 7:166) and the "vilest of creatures" (98:6)?
Right, your "hearts and minds" tripe AIN'T gonna happen. Ever.
@ Kevin
"CBS News posted a deposition from Terry Jones. About 100 pages into it, Jones talks about being influenced by Robert Spencer's book but doesn't say which one."
If terry Jones had really been influenced by anything Robert Spencer has written up until now, he wouldn't be burning Qur'ans!
I'm influenced, or should I say, persuaded, by everything I have read by Robert Spencer and Hugh Fitzgerald, but I don't agree with burning Qur'ans. So, if I haven't been 'influenced' to burn Qur'ans, why has Terry Jones?
Any way to fight Islam is the right way.
Really? Imagine Muslims in one part of AMERICA rioting and driving people out of their homes and openly threatening the rape of american women (otherwise known as ethnic cleansing), while the AMERICAN media only wants to talk about how islamophobic INDIA is becoming.
The fight is not easy, and being naive is not gonna help.
And our very own British epitome of the peace and love of Islam speaks....
British Muslim radicals 'to burn American flags' in 9/11 Burn A Koran Day protest
Metro 9 September 2010
Terry Jones, who leads a tiny Florida church, insists he will stage "International Burn-a-Koran Day" on Saturday, despite receiving more than 100 death threats and worldwide condemnation.
Now hardline British-born Islamist Anjem Choudary has called on groups around the world to stage flag burnings in response.
He said: "We have called for the people to burn the American flag so that instead of being humiliated or being intimidated they can make this day a day to remember the atrocities being committed in Muslim lands and to expose the aggressor" (...)
I fully intend on burning MY copy of the Quran on 9-11, especially if this minister backs down. This shows b*lls. If our military were run by the likes of Pershing, this crap would have stopped along time ago; what's more, no-one back then, when he put his foot down on the Muslim upstarts, would have objected to lighting up a damned Quran.
"Pastor says he won't burn Qurans"
http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2010-09-09-quran-burning-florida-church_N.htm
Bug off, nishant dude.
"I fully intend on burning MY copy of the Quran on 9-11, especially if this minister backs down. This shows b*lls. If our military were run by the likes of Pershing, this crap would have stopped a long time ago; what's more, noone back then, when he put his foot down on the Muslim upstarts', would have objected to lighting up a damned Quran." - Catdad
That's a good idea. Think I'll do that, too. You're right that this "crap" has GOT to stop. It's insane us kowtowing to and appeasing Barbarians.
The Florida Pastor has decided to cancel the Koran burning!
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/Q/QURAN_BURNING?SITE=FLTAM&SECTION=US
Interesting article in the Tampa Tribune today also included Imam Musri. I read the two articles in the Tribune today (bought a copy for once). They featured interviews with two Muslims. The first was an interview with Imam Muhammad Musri of the Islamic Society of Central Florida. Imam Musri drove to Gainesville to speak with the Pastor. Both men sat and talked for 30 minutes and discussed biblical scriptures. After the meeting, Musri shared his impression of Jones. "I don't think he's a bigot or racist. I think he's trying to express his point of view and does not know enough about Islam. He does not have a hatred of us. He has a problem with the Extremis Muslims."
Another article interiewed Tampa CAIR spokesman Ramzy Killic. (nice name by the way ). His remarks?
"Hate speech, leads to hate crimes"
"Terry Jones is a fringe element, but history has shown that fringe elements can cause a lot of damage"
"We want people to know that American Muslims are part of the American fabric, but we also have an obligation to speak out against repulsive forms of bigotry and religious discrimination".
Notice the difference in the between the two.
One took the time to drive 2 hours up to meet with Pastor Jones and was quite impressed with him, discussed biblical scriptures. The other read the CAIR manual for dealing with Dhimmis
If President Obama so much as implies that he can stop a Koran burning ceremony, it would set a very bad precedent. He and the US Federal government would be taking responsibility for the consequences.
WWGWD? I am wondering what George W would have done in this case. I think he would have said that burning the Koran is offensive. On the other hand, he would remind us that the US Constitution guarantees freedom of expression.
The MSM would always broadcast video of protests, wherever President Bush traveled. He would always point out that this is the mark of a free society, whether it be Germany, France or South Korea. I admire him for that.
I am starting to like those "Miss me Yet"? signs.
Meanwhile, in Hartford, the City Council still plans to open with a Muslim prayer.
--Bob in CT
The FBI has paid Pastor Jones a visit.... Lets see what happened.
What happened is Pastor Jones backed down. Of course, he can still read all the offending passages in the Koran and Hadith, which will better educate the world of what this Islam is all about. Then burn the offending, violent pages.
World domination is their goal, Jihad is their weapon, and Sharia their rule over us, with or without violence. Can never happen... not without a war. Time for talk is over.
Obama sides with evil islam - again?! Big surprise ...
The question which must be asked now is the following; did Petraus and Gates ask permission from obama before putting the squeeze on the pastor or did obama , great defendor of islam, first put the squeeze on them first? Everyone take a guess.
Its a protest!
The Pastor has said ~ he is making a protest statement ~ with the burning of the Koran.
Just now arguing for freedom of religion ~ in frnt of the statue of Liberty the whole bit ~ for a mosque project which was clearly intended to offend and incite. No one makes the same eloquent arguments for the book burning protest.
Summing it up:
Did anyone notice how the Pastor was tricked out of his book burning protest. It seems the Miami imam is a bold face liar.
And of the reason Rauf cannot move the mosque is because we will be attacked ~ so in his own way he is protecting us!!
Again, objects cannot be immoral in and of themselves. The imam can certainly be immoral and evil, as can his congregation and their actions, but the building itself cannot be immoral. It is simply a building.
Read carefully and calmly: It is the activities of humans that can be immoral and/or evil.
Now mohammed was evil! He was probably the most evil person who ever existed! Many of his willing followers are also evil because islam is a political/religious system that seems designed specifically to appeal to the most cruel, vile impulses of man.
Frankly, I'm surprised you are siding with that troll RJ!
Nishant
you mention Muslim riots in Deganga.
You know the Indian media better (I'm assuming you're in India) than I do.
If you do have any links to English-language reports on what's happening, send them to the 'New English Review'.
http://www.newenglishreview.org/
Here's their 'contact us' link:
http://www.newenglishreview.org/Contact%5FUs/
you'll see a slew of official email addresses, including contact info for 'Esmerelda Weatherwax' and Hugh Fitzgerald who hangs out at NER when he isn't instructing us here; he is quite the Indophile, as you may have noticed. Esmerelda Weatherwax has a great affection for Hinglish; she has often featured articles from the less well-known portions of the English-language Indian press. (She also keeps an eye on the news from Anglophone Africa).
DDA, here is one link from the mainstream media. You can also google "deganga" for more. Note the careful avoidance of the word "muslim" in the entire article. Very difficult to make out what exactly the problem was. This is the problem with the indian media.
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/kolkata-/Peace-eludes-troubled-Deganga-/articleshow/6521725.cms
The real story is available at the "Hindu Samhati' blog which RS linked to.
Ill email a link to the two people you mentioned, thanks.
Ha! What a joke! Obama speaks warmly about islam and peaceful muslims who bring all kinds of riches to the country, next he have to warn about muslims possibly killing american soldiers for the burning a replaceable book!
B.Hussein, H.Rod'em, and Gen.Betrayus react to the news:
1) Iran is building nuclear bombs:
"Yawn... ho hum... so what?"
2) Some people are burning Korans:
"No, they can't do that! It'll make Muslims mad which might endanger the troops!"
Yes! Perfectly put. I cheered out loud.
Any new songs forthcoming?
Protestant Pastor disobeys God because of 50 threats to murder against his family by Muslims
Pastor Jones says he concluded in prayer that if the Islamic center was moved, it would be a sign from God that He did not want the Quran to be burned. However, now that the world knows that the 9-11 victory mosque will never be moved (and therefore God desires that the 100 Muslim Bibles be burned), Pastor Jones has become very afraid and no longer has such a deep faith that God can protect him and his family against more than one billion enraged Muslims who are ordered by Allah through a divine book to in no way tolerate the slightest insult against this God named Allah. So, the public burning of this Muslim Bible which states that Jesus Christ is not a son of God, and is not a Savior, and did not die on a cross, and that if one wishes God to like him well enough to avoid Hell, one will never become friends with a Christian, will not go forth much to the relief of all American who surely would have been murdered in great numbers if this once brave pastor had actually had enough faith to burn 100 Muslim Bibles. Once this man had courage - more so than any of the rest of us Americans, but, who can stand up to one billion followers of a religion which values revenge above all other virtues? I'm sure that even if Pastor Jones is afraid, he is a nice guy. He certainly has proved that he is a real Islamophobe
How about Obama says "if any American soldiers, civilians or any other innocents are killed because of the Koran burning, the perpetrators will first serve a long jail sentence and then be immediately deported with his friends, family and any co-conspirators, and we will do this each time a terror attack is carried out against the US and our allies."
That might get their attention--how about it Obama?
Would you then defend the freedom of speech of someone who then burns that mosque down, because they don't like what it says and wish to make their own comment?
Burning a building in an urban center with the potential to harm innocent people is different from burning a book.
Rather than burning mosques (which perforce would have to be through vigilantism), we should work toward the day we can officially and legally outlaw all mosques along with the Muslims who worship their seditious heresiarch therein.
Someone in another thread suggested burning a copy of the text of the notorious 'Muslim Brotherhood project', the one that sets out the recipe for the Islamification of America (there is a full copy of it, Arabic text and English translation Patrick Sookhdeo's 'Faith, Power and Territory': appendix 2, 'Muslim Brotherhood Strategy for North America').
It would be possible to print off from the internet, or photocopy from a source such as Sookhdeo's book, the full text of the 'Strategy' in both Arabic and English; read aloud the main sections of the English version; and, page by page, consign them to the flames whilst stating 'we will not submit'.
Similarly, one could print off a copy of the Pact of Omar, and burn *that* , on camera - but not until after you'd read it aloud, each of its cruel and mean-minded clauses, and explained that many of these rules for degradation and humiliation of the dhimmis, some of which should forcibly remind the hearers of apartheid, of Jim Crow, and of Nazi strictures on Jews, still inform the behaviour of Muslims, officially and unofficially, toward non-Muslim minorities in Muslim-dominated lands, *today*. For American audiences, draw particular attention to the fact that the Pact explicitly forbids dhimmis to own or bear arms, and that it denies them all right of self-defence, by stipulating that they must never hit a Muslim, period.