The demand for full independence has changed, but little else has. They have simply gone from wanting full autonomy to govern the area as a separate Islamic state to wanting to do the same thing while remaining part of the Philippines.
If anything, the revised set of demands would create a win-win situation for the jihadists. If they cut themselves off, they would at some point have to attempt to build a functioning economy, worry about infrastructure, and so forth -- in other words, act like a real state. They would also face more acutely the prospect of jihadist impulses turning inward in power struggles for the fully independent state.
By staying part of the Philippines, they remain attached to that stream of resources, and can continue to blackmail Manila with demands for the sake of stability in the region. It is also easier while technically remaining part of the Philippines to continue to revise the borders of the Islamic state that is still technically Filipino, than as a sovereign nation making demands on another: again, blackmail is cheaper than war.
What remains to be seen is how willing Manila is to overlook its constitution in a Sharia-for-peace deal for this region. "Philippine Muslims drop separatist demands," from Al-Arabiya, September 23 (thanks to Twostellas):
The chief government negotiator in peace talks with Muslim rebels on Thursday welcomed a rebel leader's statement that his group is no longer demanding independence from the Philippines and instead is seeking a status similar to a U.S. state.
The rebel announcement Wednesday "will definitely pave the way to finding an understanding for a politically feasible arrangement that maintains the territorial integrity and the fundamental premise of people's sovereignty in one republic," law school dean Marvic Leonen said in a statement.
"We hope that there can be a lot of common ground" with the rebels, Leonen, head of the government negotiating panel, later told The Associated Press. The rebels have been fighting for Muslim self-rule for about four decades.
Mohagher Iqbal, chief negotiator for the 11,000-strong Moro Islamic Liberation Front, told local reporters on Wednesday that his group wanted a "substate" that he likened to a U.S. state. He said it would not be independent and would be under a "unitary government."
Just like that time Nebraska demanded to form an Islamic theocracy -- no, wait...
"It is not stated in our proposal specifically, but the formulation that we have put up is really for the creation of a ... substate arrangement," Iqbal was quoted as saying.
Leonen said it was a "welcome clarification" of the rebel position.
"We are willing to listen to the concept that they are willing to propose," he told the AP.
Talks collapsed in 2008 after the Supreme Court rejected a preliminary accord that would have expanded an existing Muslim autonomous region in the southern Philippines.
A spokeswoman for the court said then that eight of 15 justices voted to declare the deal unconstitutional because the proposed Muslim homeland would lead to its "eventual independence," which would violate the country's "physical and territorial integrity."
After the court threw out the proposed agreement, rebel negotiator Musib Buat said the rebels had been "pushed to the wall" and the only option left for them was "to revert to the original goal of independence" and campaign for "decolonization" with support from the United Nations and the International Court of Justice.
Iqbal gave scant details about what the rebels sought to establish, saying only that the Muslim substate would not wield four powers exercised by a central government - national defense, foreign affairs, currency and coinage, and postal services. He said it would not maintain a separate armed forces and would only have troops for "internal security."
He could not be reached Thursday for further comment.
Government and rebel negotiators met shortly before President Benigno Aquino III took office in June and agreed to resume talks. Both sides have formed their negotiating panels but no date has been set for a resumption of the Malaysian-brokered talks.
Iqbal said a final peace accord could be completed in less than two years "if the Philippine government is really serious" in pursuing peace.
More than 120,000 people have died in the decades-long conflict in the resource-rich southern Mindanao region, the homeland of minority Muslims in the predominantly Roman Catholic country.
Slice off a part of the Philippines and give it to them. Lesson learned.... hopefully. Take notice the rest of the world.
The idiotic Kashmiris want to become part of Pakistan rather than India despite the good deal they get from giving trouble to India. In the end the Filipino Muslims will want full independence too...Muslims are never happy, it seems. All of this is going to happen in our countries too, and presumably the multiculturalists will find it all very amusing and think that at last, at last, we are not provincial and boring any more, but instead "part of the world".
This is only a strategy for slowly carving out more Muslim enclaves in nearby areas.Islam and Muslims will never ever stop demanding everything from a prayer-break time in the School and workplaces to open rebellion against non-Muslim Kaffirs under various pretexts until the whole world becomes completely Islamized. Non-Muslim world will always remain passive and naive under dangerous illusions such as Islam is a religion of peace and Muslims are just peaceful people.
Hudna
We know from their own canon that when they sue for peace it is only because they are losing. It is why the most effective thing the Philippine government could do now is ramp up the military pressure. There are more than a thousand years of history that prove to us that they must be crushed with overwhelming force to effect an unconditional surrender. Only then will they cease their violence and only as long as we maintain our vigilance and willingness to employ that force if there is any hint of a resurgence of their jihadist impulse.
These chronic, violent, Islamic separatist struggles make me thankful that the South isn't Muslim, because then the Civil War would still be raging.
Give the Muslim half the land....they will want the rest next week...
'Dispatches: Undercover Mosque' -- British Muslims at a mosque were told that that Islam will eventually gain "the uppermost strength" and form an Islamic state. They were instructed to "form a state within a state, until we take over."
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2515587181120245843#
"Give the Muslim half the land....they will want the rest next week..."
No, certainly not half the land, and I have no doubt what so ever about that not satisfying them exsgbrown, but my thinking was to draw a new line in the sand and to get the enemy out of your country......ideally. India almost got it right.
Krazy Kafir: Unfortunately, "almost" is not good enough, and now they are paying dearly for their "almost" and probably will pay more dearly still as time passes.
Yes PJG, I agree, that is why I said, almost.
Crazy Extremists hold 3rd party hostages in a "bite the hand that feeds you" scenario...
no wait, it's not the barbaric Muslims, OMG! It's the US's #1 sweetheart ISRAEL.
This paragon of civilization, this country which accepts more aid from the US than any THREE other countries in the world is threatening PALESTINIAN lives unless an American Traitor, Johnathan Pollard is released after having given Israel, according to one US navy official, "virtually everything we knew/know about nukes" to Israel and Russia, among others.
So c'mon you patriots, where is the hue and cry? This is international state POLICY terrorism at it's most daring!
If it were Americans being held hostage, y'all would either be advocating for Military Intervention or some kind of ransom deal, so, who will jump up on their soap box and decry the injustice of threatening an uninvolved 3rd party to leverage the release of a CRIMINAL who betrayed America????
Bobby, Marisol, Hugh, anyone...?
Allah Bless America!!!
But doesn't this solve the problem? Give 'em a "reservation" where they can just be themselves - then put a big wall around it. Small price to pay.
http://whyyouexist.blogspot.com
jewdog - I guess don't get out much...People in the are still pissed about the "War of Northern Aggression"...
http://nooz2day.blogspot.com
Allah bless America.....vomit. Isn't allah/satan the monster that the child molesting head chopping sub-human sack of feces invented so he could indeed rape little girls and enjoy having his fellow man's heads chop off? Why would anyone with with even a modicum of human decency want that scum's invention to bless America?
ISLAM poisons EVERY nation it enters- at 1% look at USA - nothing but trouble, whining, demands, threats, lawsuits, infiltration into politics and more----------------then as it grows ALWAYS-then-> "separatist movements"
tranlation: violent overthrow of YOUR country- one more sucessful THEFT by ISLAM
India half land stolen
Kurds LANDS occupied
Cyprus occupied
Indonesia and SE ASIA- "insurgencies: terror attacks
Bosnia- stolen from Serbia
N Africa Under seige or conquered by SWORD
got more but you get the idea.................
Dank = assinine and off topic
trolling
"A pond within a pond". Yeah, I think I've heard this stuff before.
Looks like they took a page from Quebec's playbook.
i think they shift from their first demand of independent state of Mindanao, to state within a state or a federal form of gov't.
Mural Rage, the next big thing:
Anti burqa mural vandalized in Newtown, Muslim mayor supports vandalism
http://sheikyermami.com/2010/09/24/anti-burqa-mural-vandalized-in-newtown-muslim-mayor-supports-vandalism/
Australia: Mural Rage in the Making
http://sheikyermami.com/2010/09/23/australia-mural-rage-in-the-making/
yes these muslims want a state within a state, better to leach off the hard work of the infidals while conducting their stealth jihad.
The Philippines, like so many countries in Asia, is filling up with returnees from Saudi Arabia and the Gulf Arab sheiklets. Those who do return, and not in a box, or who simply disappear never to be heard again, bring back tales of cruelty, rape, violence, at the hands of their Muslim Arab masters, and all over those countries where mass poverty requires hundreds of thousands to continue to take the risk, and to go off to the Arab oil states to work as domestic slaves and sex-slaves for Arab masters, return and tell, in no doubt cleaned-up fashion, the real story of how Muslims allow themselves to treat others, but especially non-Muslims.
None of it should be forgotten. Much of it should be written up and disseminated, or testimony offered on Youtube. This has to be widely understood in the West, where some who refuse to see Muslim behavior as dangerous, and refuse to grasp the nature of Islam, will listen to those from the Third World when they will not listen to fellow members of what they regard as the (illegitimate because white, European, colonial, name your fashionable poison) West.
Bulldoze everything in the area and salt the earth, until they agree to behave.
I mean, why can't they be satisfied with the rights that other non-Muslim citizens have? What makes them so special?
It's important to know that when Muslims say one thing:
Contrary to the stereotyped perception that Muslims are violent, Islam teaches peace. In fact, Islam means submission to the will of God who is the author of real and lasting peace. But history tells us that the Islamic concept of peace is one that is not imposed through coercion but rather comes from the fulfillment of justice. This explains why treaties entered into between Spain and the Muslims could not have brought the peace the Muslims desired because it was based on injustice and coercion.
If we are to accept the pattern of history, Islam must be recognized as a positive factor or force in the pursuit of peace and unity by the State. The sooner the nation and the government recognize this fact the better is it for the future of the country as a whole. We must continue to destroy the prejudices of the past and begin to remake the history of the Filipino people without the social barriers that tend to divide us.
They really mean the opposite:
http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2010/04/jihad-in-the-philippines-muslims-destroy-cathedral.html
Dank. The topic of this thread is how mohametans are over reaching barbaric cretins who are a cancer to any society who allows them to metastasize. Please try to stay on topic. Thanks in advance.
Your friend and true nabi.
nabi ZK (pbum)
metro manila should be ready to face the islamization of our place, in baclaran they already built their mosque in government property and threatened that people will die if they destroy it, same in taguig and in manila area wherein mosque are built so when you demolish them you are enemies of islam, the police and especially our government are so afraid of them, people should do something about this and i dont know how, most of the people i talked believe that islam is a religion of peace of of course thats the greatest lie ive ever heard...
metro manila should be ready to face the islamization of our place, in baclaran they already built their mosque in government property and threatened that people will die if they destroy it, same in taguig and in manila area wherein mosque are built so when you demolish them you are enemies of islam, the police and especially our government are so afraid of them, people should do something about this and i dont know how, most of the people i talked believe that islam is a religion of peace of of course thats the greatest lie ive ever heard...
It's a good thing for you the Western world doesn't follow it's own Quran, of course with the word Muslim replaced with everybody else and Jew, Christian and Infidel replaced with Muslim. My guess is that there would be a 1000 mile nuclear parking lot around Israel.
Thank you, Nabi, Peace be with you. The muslim culture is historically irredentists. This is how they've operated for 1400 years. Unfortunately, it works for them. Not too well for anybody else. Especially the christian cultures who refuse to identify the barbaric nature of islam and treat it accordingly. Unleash the Crusaders and the Knights of the round table!! We could really use them right about.
...now.
Dank. The topic of this thread is how mohametans are over reaching barbaric cretins who are a cancer to any society who allows them to metastasize. Please try to stay on topic. Thanks in advance.
Your friend and true nabi.
nabi ZK (pbum)
The Moro(n) Islamic Liberation Front.
Slogan: We give MILFs a bad name!
Saracens
you wrote - "Hudna. We know from their own canon that when they sue for peace it is only because they are losing. It is why the most effective thing the Philippine government could do now is ramp up the military pressure."
I agree. It is something that is *very* hard for anyone from a high civilisation to get their head around; but we *have* to learn to do this; that when Muslims offer truces, or back down in some way, then that is the time to go in and ...hammer them flat.
Memo to any Filipino person reading this - try to teach the non-Muslims in your army, police and government about the Mohammedan doctrine of war, namely, that there is war if the Muslims feel strong, and 'peace' (a temporary time-out, in order to regroup and rearm and commence the jihad as soon as opportunity presents) if the Muslims feel weak. If all your police chiefs and generals grasp this simple point, and then proceed to do what logically follows - that Muslims should be fought implacably whether they are making war or whether they call for a 'peace', and that they should indeed be hammered hardest when they call for 'peace' precisely because that is a likely indication of weakness - then we might see Dar al Harb (the region of the non-Muslims, where non-Muslims rule) start to score against dar al Islam (the region of Slavery, where Muslims dominate).
Alfred
you're Filipino?
Welcome. I see you have an uphill fight ahead, in your country, to hold your ground and to push back the Ummah, or Mohammedan mob.
Here are two excellent articles that you may like to print off, perhaps even translate into Tagalog, and distribute far and wide among your fellow countrymen.
The first is by Dr Raymond Ibrahim, who was born to Coptic Christian refugees from Egypt, in America. He is fluent in Arabic. He has written two articles on Muslim use of deception. One - 'Islam's Doctrines of Deception' - was published in 'Jane's Islamic Affairs Analyst' magazine, 26 September 2008. That's not online, but could probably be found in a good library.
But the other article can be read online:
http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war
"How Taqiyya Alters Islam's Rules of War: Defeating Jihadist Terrorism," by scholar Raymond Ibrahim, in the Middle East Quarterly, Winter 2010.
Here are the concluding paragraphs:
"In closing, whereas it may be more appropriate to talk of "war and peace" as natural corollaries in a Western context, when discussing Islam, it is more accurate to talk of "war and deceit."
"For, from an Islamic point of view, times of peace—that is, whenever Islam is significantly weaker than its infidel rivals—are times of feigned peace and pretense, in a word, taqiyya."
Every politician, diplomat, general, police chief and lawyer - and immigration officer - in the non-Muslim world ought to read that article by Raymond Ibrahim, learn it by heart, believe it...and then have a good long think about what, logically, we have to do if we mean to survive and prevail against an opponent that thinks and behaves like *that*.
Now for the other useful item. It is an article by an American, that originally appeared on June 30 1994.
It is a wonderfully lucid discussion of jihad, and it tells us that the term 'cold war' was not invented in the 1950s; it comes from Spanish, 'guerra fria', and originally was invented by medieval Spaniards to describe the centuries-long war by which they freed their country from Muslim occupation and enslavement.
http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/GUERRA.HTM
FROM "COLD WAR" TO GUERRA FRIA? - Patrick L. Moore
I think this one, too, would be a good one to share around.
Peas - Yes, The War of Northern Aggression is quaint, but. after all, sticks and stones...
Sheik
re. 'mural rage' -
thanks for flagging that.
I went straight over and read all the articles.
I think I'll be sending the artist a friendly email in support of his commendable effort to raise awareness.
me too ! and thanks, sheik.
OT...Thanks for posting on jihadwatch...I am an honorary Filipino...Years ago I was a karate student (Kajukenbo) of a Filipino instructor, with mostly Filipino students...I attended many Filipino parties and hung out with some as friends...They made me an honorary Filipino at a get together, and gave me a small trophy...I was certainly honored by that...I still have the trophy...
It appears to be a modified Palestinian plan for take-over of Israel one chunk at a time, one "colony" at a time.
From the news story published in the Islam-friendly mainstream news medium Al-Arabiya (likely staffed by many friendly, personable, moderate, quasi-Westernized Muslims):
"More than 120,000 people have died in the decades-long conflict in the resource-rich southern Mindanao region..."
This makes it sound like thousands of people died from a tropical storm, or from an outbreak of mosquito-borne malaria: i.e., it makes it sound like this "decades-long conflict" is just some unavoidable force of nature -- or perhaps avoidable if the non-Muslim government just accedes to the demands of the "rebels".
Just as in Iraq, and Afghanistan, and Chechnya, etc. (fill in your Islamic guerilla war from anywhere around the world), most of these deaths are due to Muslims killing people in the name of advancing Islam in accord with the central texts, history-lessons and weekly sermons of Islam -- including in the grotesque manner of beheadings and other forms of horrible torture. The remainder of the reason for why "people died" is because the non-Muslim government has been trying to defend people and stop Muslims from killing.
Consider this other news story about the Philippines I found at random on the same Al-Arabiya site. Its headline merely says that "16 Islamist rebels killed in Philippines fighting" -- but when the reader digs down into the article, he finds out why they were killed:
Regional Military Spokesman Major Armand Rico said the aircraft, two helicopter gunships and two fixed wing aircraft carrying bombs, were providing aircover for ground troops when the rebels using machine guns opened fire on them, which prompted one of the pilots to return fire.
http://www.alarabiya.net/articles/2008/09/08/56216.html
@dumbledoresarmy
thanks for the great article, ive learned so much from it
yes im a filipino and im afraid that my country will become an islamic state in the near future if people will be blinded by the "islam is peace" propaganda
other filipinos reading this might think that im thinking so much but ever since former dictator/president ferdinand marcos allowed Shari'a law (civil cases only *thats why they are allowed to have multiple marriage,divorce etc here) in the Philippines then its not imposible that this will be our next form of government
recently edl fitr already becomes a national holiday, im afraid what they will do next
i dont know why my fellow countrymen still believes this is a religion of peace, i can still remember when they held a violent rally in makati outside my office where they nearly killed someone because this person shouted at them, they are rallying against the Muhammad cartoonist and another rally where they show their support for the terrorist hamas.
i just hope people will realized how evil this religion is
by the way Muslims here in the Philippines are legal pedophile
PRESIDENTIAL DECREE NO. 1083 - sharia law in the PH
Art. 16. Capacity to contract marriage. —
(1) Any Muslim male at least fifteen years of age and any Muslim female of the age of puberty or upwards and not suffering from any impediment under the provisions of this Code may contract marriage. A female is presumed to have attained puberty upon reaching the age of fifteen.
(2) However, the Shari'a District Court may, upon petition of a proper wali, order the solemnization of the marriage of a female who though less than fifteen but not below twelve years of age, has attained puberty.
this is sick in the mind to the highest form
Is this what you're on about?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/20/israel-spy-release-settlement-freeze
It's about Netanyahu seeking a sop for his cabinet "right" wingers to help persuade them to extend by a few months the existing partial freeze on settlement expansion in the West Bank. He wants the extension in order to avoid Palestinian withdrawal from negotiations. I guess you're against those negotiations.
I hope someone from the Philippines is reading these comments. If they want to keep their constitution in place & not be subjected to blackmail, they need to make & enforce laws that allow them to remove the threat. Muslims.
Making a law stipulating that anyone deemed a threat or trying to change your constitution by making their own laws or trying to overthrow said government, whether an illegal citizen or a citizen of the country will be deported immediately, or put in detention camps.
No other authority other than your own government & laws are allowed. Make laws stipulating that sharia law is not compatible with your own government & therefore not allowed to be enforced or made into law.
The only reason muslims are trying to make their own state is to enforce sharia law, then when they have the numbers, commit jihad against your country & take over completely. Don't fall into the same trap as France & Britain. Start enforcing your laws & refuse their demand. It's your country. Take charge now before it's too late.
Muslims, by sharia law, are committed to jihad. Kill all infidels. This means anyone who will not become Islam & submit only to Allah. Look up the 9 suras. Read all the info on Muslims, koran, Islam, Sharia laws. I'll gladly send the information you need to completely understand their violence against mankind. Just email me. pawprinz@earthlink.net make sure this is a government official from a government site or I won't respond. All information can be confirmed.
Help yourselves now.
A concerned citizen of the U.S.