Jihad Watch reader Abdul Ameer sent me this email regarding this story, about the $10,000 reward the East Lansing Police Department is offering for information on the recent burning of a Qur'an there:
Dear Mr. Spencer,After reading your posting about the $10,000 reward being offered in the investigation by the EWast Lansing Police Department of a Koran burning, I called the East Lansing Police Department. I spoke with three people and asked each one which American law was being violated. The first person didn't know and passed me to another officer in the department. The second officer did not know, either, and passed me to a third officer. The third officer did not know either, and then just hung up on me.
Abdul Ameer
I don't support Qur'an-burning. I don't approve of book-burning in general. I believe that bad ideas should be met with better ideas, not with violent suppression. But the freedom of expression is guaranteed by the First Amendment. Neither the Qur'an nor any other book is protected from burning under American law. So why the huge reward from the East Lansing PD? And why is no one there prepared to answer any questions about their apparent attempt to enforce a Sharia provision rather than American law?
Abdul Ameer adds in a later message:
Call the East Lansing Police Department at (517) 319-6825. Ask them to explain to you exactly which American law was violated by someone having left a burnt Koran on the front doorstep of the East Lansing Islamic Center. Ask for an explanation of why this incident is so important that it is worth $10,000 of the taxpayers' money and many hours of police time.Please use this as an opportunity to help educate the East Lansing Police Department.
UK police stop people from burning a page of Koran while American and UK flags burn all around
http://vladtepesblog.com/
Gateway Pundit is reporting that Gainesville officials are billing Pastor Jones $180,000 for security expenses.
I don't really agree with burning the quran either, but even more so, I disturbed by this clear attempt to punish free speech - especially immensely unpopular speech.
Careful, SIOA, you might be billed for your rallies. Your opposition is historical violent in response to offense.
But your opponents won't need to worry about bills, since their opposition is historical non-violent and, therefore, less of a security threat.
Call the Attorney General or write a letter and request a reply.
This kind of stuff must stop.
Call the Attorney General or write a letter and request a reply.
This kind of stuff must stop.
This just about sums it up.
http://media.townhall.com/Townhall/Car/b/gm070802.jpg
Sorry for the duplicate post, having some puter problems here.
"So why the huge reward from the East Lansing PD?"
Well, how about that this is the Detective's name:
Those with information are asked to call Det. Sherief Fadly at 517-319-6814.
As RS wrote:
"Is Detective Sherief Fadly more interested in enforcing American law, or Sharia? Does he know that Americans have a right to freedom of expression, including that which others find obnoxious or offensive?"
I opine that the Muslim Detective is more interested in enforcing Islamic shar'ia law.
Answer your question, Abdul?
K9GS, you are kidding, right.
Do you not notice the muslims know exactly how to get their way, they have not written one letter to the attorney general, they simply give notice that they will freak out if they do not get their own way.
Perhaps its time that we, the people, freak out if we dont get our way.
"...they [Muslims'] simply give notice that they will freak out if they do not get their own way."
The double-digit IQ's have figured out that in Kaffir Lands' Islamic violent intimidation works!
I've been doing some research on the law, and it clearly is a violation of the UN Declaration on Religious Tolerance, passed by the General Assembly, which mentions Islamophobia.
Burning the Qur'an is also a violation of Islamic law, being a form of blasphemy, which is a capital crime.
Burning the Qur'an is also hate speech, a hate crime, which is considered worse than committing an non-hate (love, apathy?) crime.
It is also necessary to obtain a permit to burn anything, assuming you aren't a municipal waste facility.
Burning the Qur'an endangers national security and is therefore not covered by the Bill of Rights.
This is just a sample, and I'm sure there are lots of other legal precedents from which to argue.
They got O.J. off, didn't they?
This is brilliant! The police at East Lansing are going to wish they'd never heard of the Qur'an by the end of the day.
Keep up the pressure!
Qur'an burning: what American law is violated?
..................
Well, the *only* legitimate point I can see is if this incident is taken as constituting intimidation or a threat, which would seem to be a stretch at any rate. But even more so if Abdul Ameer spoke with three separate people at the East Lancing police department and *not one* could give him any sort of answer at all—not even of the vague and iffy "hate crime" variety.
More:
I don't support Qur'an-burning. I don't approve of book-burning in general. I believe that bad ideas should be met with better ideas, not with violent suppression.
..................
I am also no fan of any kind of book burning, either—burning a book *does not* constitute a cogent criticism of its contents.
However, I would *not* characterize some yahoo's declared intention of torching a couple of Qur'ans as "violent suppression". It could only be so categorized if were either official policy of the state, or followed up with specific threats of violence—neither of which applies in this case.
Abdul Ameer, thanks for all your follow-up work on this issue. I might put in a call to Michigan myself.
"They got O.J. off, didn't they?"
Ever seen the "Chewbacca defense" on "South Park?"
It does not make sense!
There are some obvious questions about the reward offered by the East Lansing police.
1. Where is the money coming from? Police departments usually have strapped budgets, so to offer such a reward means that an internal judgment would have been made that the "crime" was of such magnitude as to rank with murder or bank robbery for which rewards might also be offered. Who from within the department (name please) authorized this reward?
2. If the money did not come from within the existing departmental budget, then where did it come from? Again, the name of the individual, please.
Of course, anyone here can make a fair guess who the players are behind this by following by the general direction from which the stench is emanating. A hint is present in the name of the contact provided for sending tips: Det. Sherief Fadly. I wonder what mosque Det. Fadly attends, who is associates are, and whether he has made illegal financial contributions to terrorist organizations. I hope someone is looking into these matters.
For the lawyers here: Isn't there a law that would cover this general situation? If there is any violence that would follow such an identification, could that not be laid at the foot of the police themselves for "inciting violence" by mere virtue of having offered this reward, regardless of the source of the funds?
Looks as if another Holy Crusade is needed; This one to liberate Michigan and bring it back into the Union...
jewdog, but does burning any book breach the US Constitution or US law?
If National security is endangered by the constitution, you US citizens are in a much more shakey position than I thought.
Who would have thought that your constitution would last only 250 years.
A (forighn born? muslim?) progressive president of the US who seems not to abide by the US constitution which he has sworn to uphold in its entirty .
We here in England, have seen our constitution trashed as well, you wouldnt think we had one.
This is a fight the west is not losing, its throwing in the towel because of the elites who cannot abide , we the people.
I think the local media failed to ask the pertinent questions of the police. Their story on this issue was very limited.
Was it really about the Quran? Was the Quran actually on fire when placed near the structure? Was the Quran doused with a flammable liquid as well, was it thrown at the facility while it was burning-- actions like those of course can require it to be defined as both or either arson, or a hate crime.
http://newstime.co.nz/quran-set-on-fire-at-ground-zero-on-911.html
Department offers $10,000 reward in Qur’an-burning case
Smoking the Koran Causes “Backlash”
USA: NJ Transit Authority Fired Derek Fenton
for Burning Quran on 9/11
In addition to harassment and intimidation, which gravenimage mentioned, I would guess there is also the issue of private property.
It's one thing to safely burn a book in your own backyard. It's another thing to do it without permission on someone else's property (if that's what happened).
If it's true that the person in question also smeared some pages with feces and left them on the mosque property or within the mosque itself, s/he definitely crossed a line. In Canada, that would probably qualify as a hate crime. I know you don't have hate crime legislation in many (or most) states but you probably have other laws which would cover such a disgusting act (if that's what happened).
Of course, I'm speculating and have no knowledge of what actually occurred.
In my opinion, if it's wrong for someone to do this to a church or a synagogue, then it's wrong for them to do it to a mosque.
The reward does seem awfully high but then again police departments and local governments seem to place a high value on maintaining community harmony and keeping the peace nowadays.
It would be interesting to know if any similar rewards have been offered for other, more serious crimes (if any have taken place in that city in recent years). For example, have there been any murders or violent attacks? Were any rewards offered? If so, how quickly and in what amount?
I called the Lansing Police station, told them I was from Hawaii and asked about the reward and was burning a page of the Koran against the law. They sounded very tired and gave the prosecuting attorneys office number. It is 517-483-6108. They had that number in a jiffy so I guess alot of folks are calling. Now I will call too. Why don't you.
FROM the EAST LANSING WEBSITE...http://www.cityofeastlansing.com/Home/Departments/Communications/MediaRoom/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/647/East-Lansing-Police-Department-Announces-Reward-for-Quran-Burning-Case/
EAST LANSING, Mich. — On September 11, 2010 at approximately 1:30 a.m. a burned and desecrated Qur’an was discovered at the front door of the Islamic Center of East Lansing, located at 920 S. Harrison Ave., East Lansing, Mich.
The East Lansing Police Department seeks information leading to the identification and prosecution of the person or persons who committed this act. A reward fund of $10,000 has been allocated to pay those who come forward with information leading to the positive identification of the suspects in this case.
Those with information are asked to call Det. Sherief Fadly at (517) 319-6814.
It seems to me that the reward was provided by muslims to make sure the person was identified (i.e. "leading to the positive ID of the suspects") and then to be dealt with by the local cult members.
I wonder if this was done as a stunt by the PD to get CAIR and the like off their back. If you look at the announcement it offers the reward for the identification and prosecution of the individual involved.
Since there is no crime in burning the Koran there can be no prosecution. At worst you have littering for leaving it on the sidewalk. A littering conviction probably has a fine of $100 or less if I had the guess. Paying out $10k and getting back a $100 fine isn't the way things usually go.
As for the hate crime angle. In the US, hate crimes are not a crime by themselves. They are a sentence enhancement like domestic violence crimes. So if there is no underlying crime, there can not be a hate crime. Some states may differ but that has been the usual route taken in the US because of the First Amendment. Any state law the criminalized 'hate speech' by itself would likely run afoul of the Bill of Rights.
The official campaign against the Qur'an burning a is a logical consequence of our ill-conceived hearts-and-mind, nation-building efforts in Muslim countries. Not only have we squandered blood and money, but now we are willing to restrict our civil rights.
Another question to ask the local PD is if they've ever offered a reward for other hate crimes (assuming this is being treated as a hate crime) against synagogues or other houses of worship. If they have offered rewards, what amount were they? If not, why the special treatment for this incident?
Upon further reviewing of the East Lansing site I came across this....http://www.cityofeastlansing.com/NewsReleases/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/649/Police-Identify-Individual-Responsible-for-Quran-Desecration/
Police have positively identified the individual responsible for the desecration of the Qur’an on Saturday, Sept. 11.
The individual voluntarily surrendered to police officials on Wednesday, Sept. 15 following the establishment of a $10,000 reward fund. None of the reward funds were paid out to obtain the information leading to the individual’s identity. The individual continues to cooperate with police and FBI officials. The investigators have determined that this was an isolated incident.
It is expected that the police investigation will be completed early next week. The case will be forwarded to the Ingham County Prosecutor’s Office for review. No further information will be released until a decision is made about filing charges.
I keep coming back the the same point, what we are seeing is creeping left-wing fascism. And it crosses, not in equal measure mind you, but it crosses party lines.
Think of the Pelosi threats of investigative harassment, think about Obama and General Petraeus shitting their pants at paper being burned.
And think, as thankfully Abdul Ameer has done, about police acting as vigilante, being unaccountable; those are the symptoms of this creeping left-wing fascism.
And the president has set the tone - release the hounds.
It has become de facto illegal to criticise Islam. Expressing ones opinion on the subject of Islam, and the deep and troubling problems with this ideology, is no longer free. Increasingly one has to pay a heavy price of being slandered ("you bigot and islamophobe"), of being harassed out of ones constitutional right, and, if this police department gets its way, of having selectively and disproportionate charges laid and so destroying a citizen's career - the price exacted to intimidate the next person out of their duty and right.
Expressing concerns about Islam and its accelerating distorting influence on America is not some abstract theological disagreement or quarrel at the margins. It is expressing concerns about the price in lives and in freedoms that Islam is exacting and where this is leading.
Bloomberg talked about the rights under the constitution, but he is blind to the fact that those rights are being systematically taken away along ideological lines. All that many people asked was the GZM be shift a few blocks from GZ, and not that it not be built anywhere in NY. But, think about this, you are vilified and hounder EVERYWHERE in America if you express your opposition to the teachings to Islam by burning the Quran.
Why the difference in propaganda? Both are rights under the constitution after all. Well, because the left-wing fascist, in a deadly embrace with the islamo-fascists, are selling us down the river - as simple as that.
"a violation of the UN Declaration on Religious Tolerance, passed by the General Assembly, which mentions Islamophobia.
Burning the Qur'an is also a violation of Islamic law, being a form of blasphemy, which is a capital crime"
Well, screw the UN.
Are we under U.S. Constitutional Law/Bill of Rights or the UN?
Freeman on the Land
You can email them too!!
http://www.cityofeastlansing.com/Home/Departments/Police/StaffDirectory/
This is all a result of our own citizens being afraid of elephants in our own living room - and allowing them to get comfortable.
We have to ask ourselves how this happened and what we were doing - or not doing while it was happening.
While we may shout outrage at this, let's take stock in ourselves. We have only ourselves to call to account; we were all there and have been for quite some time.
Don't get me wrong. This is no self-piety, only reality.
If we can't articuate our values, then we have to brush-up.
We can't argue this with home-team jingoism. If appeals to our own fall on deaf ears, then we have to improve our messages. I don't mean compromise. I mean get a handle on it.
Berore we encounter enemies, look at ourselves,easements of municipal ordinances, organizations; churches and sunday schools to Boys and Girls Scouts, and youth associations. Real sophistication requires a knowledge of one's own turf first.
I was musing during Mass yesterday (going on 70', I enjoy the students' Mass at my parish). We have pictures of the early apostles as aging old men bearing The Word. But the proseltyzing was done by the young; refreshing and eager people who attracted by example.
We may have to look about and see how this new influence has allowed a police department to act as they did, and the appeal of these Islmophiles to have stampeded over our secular institutions that people of beliefs have surrendered.
Think of the current irony: impassioned secularism allies with religious fanatics.
Is this where we want to be?
Here's an interesting twist to fool Ms.Khan with a real con.
Just buy a Quran and Bible of the same size,peal the hard covers off and swap them to look untouched,or have a book-binder transfer the Quran cover onto the Bible pages.
THEN torch the Quran on a video but no close-ups,toss the Bible/Quran off somewhere to be found near a Mosque and maybe slip in a strip of bacon between the pages so no Muslim would actually touch it.
Pop it in the Leftists Media oven to bake up a juicy lie to make Fibriham Hooper's head explode and as he tours the Dhimmi TV channels inciting riots and smearing Americans and bigot Islamophobes.
Then, just like in Dallas Police garage the evidence pops out and shoots CAIR with the bullet of truth when the chared pages are reviewed to see the English NIV. So what will CAIR and Hooper do now,play the Victim that the intent was to incite hatred towards Muslims?,or brush it off as a prank and excuse away the infidelophobia rants by CAIR because it COULD have been a real Quran and someone might have gotten killed?
Hmmmmmmm,so Con-job Khan and Fibriham will have no choice but to jump to judgement for a scapegoat with their faux outrage to appease the Saudi masters,or when CAIR finds out it was a NIV inside a Quran cover....they're hoisted on their own petard .
BTW
Just imagine all those useful idiots over the years that didn't have a Global TV network to show the real face of islam and Muhammads followers.
5'500'000'000 non-muslims can no longer be forced to live under a Psycholigical-terrorism to be killed one day by a few Misunderstanders of the peacful islam because 1.5 bilion Muslims have neither the will nor brain to find them in the Mosques and kick them out.
Complicit,or just plain stupid?
This crap just keeps getting better . . .
East Lansing . . .
City Council, Islamic Center Issue Joint Statement
http://www.cityofeastlansing.com/Home/Departments/Communications/MediaRoom/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/643/City-Council-Islamic-Center-Issue-Joint-Statement/
Complete dhimmitude!!!
In part it reads:
"We are both heartened by the community's support of the Islamic Center as evidenced by the public outcry against this deplorable act. Saturday evening's reading of the Qur’an at All Saints Episcopal Church is indicative of the appreciation of diversity in our community that transcends race, religion, ethnicity and socio-economic status."
“We are also deeply appreciative that Michigan State University has joined with us in condemning this reprehensible act by forwarding a letter to the Islamic Center from President Lou Anna K. Simon. City, community and Islamic leaders will be planning a community unity event in the near future.”
In addition:
ELPD Weekend Police Report:
Hard to believe - not a single Koran burning!!!!
http://www.cityofeastlansing.com/Home/Departments/Police/WeekendReports/
In case someone mneeds to contact these fools:
Chief Thomas Wibert twibert@cityofeastlansing.com
Officer Sherief Fadly jcambe@cityofeastlansing.com
But for Robert, Hugh, Marisol and the regular posters here at JW, these fools would make me very disheartened. Sincere thanks you all for my education.
Dave
No need to elaborate that much - take a quran cover sheet and burn clean pages inside the book.. you can create a riot which is unthinkable and seriously stupid.
Its difficult to imagine there are about 1.2 billion hell-bent morons on our planet.
PS - I think the act to burn a book is stupidity, however.
To understand why the 1st Amendment doesn't matter anymore, let's take the 14th Amendment as an analog. The news entertainment pundits, many or most of them Ivy League law graduates, all concede, even on Fox News, that a baby born in the U.S. of an illegal alien mother, or even a baby born of a mother here legally on vacation or a work visa, is thereby automatically a U.S. citizen.
So the discourse revolves around a possible constitutional amendment to change the Constitution to disallow so-called anchor babies.
But wait, let's take a gander at the text:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside.
So in actuality, in terms of what this text constitutes, anchor babies are already denied citizenship. Unless you're an Ivy League Lawyer and can't understand the words in black. If the birth mother was not subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S., but instead subject to the jurisdiction of Mexico or China, for example, the anchor baby is on its own, hopefully headed back over the Rio Grande or the Pacific.
But it would be racist to take the Constitution literally when it comes to anchor babies. So a Fictive Reality has been put in place informing the American population that it permits anchor babies.
*** Article IV Section 4 ***
The United States shall guarantee to every State in this Union a Republican Form of Government, and shall protect each of them against Invasion.
Similarly, the Constitution demands that the federal government protect the nation's sovereignty by stopping invasions. Having a supposed 11 million illegal aliens on our soil constitutes invasion, the real number is more like 20 million, obviously constitutes an invasion, but the Ivy League Lawyers trump this by simply declining to do their sworn duty and put the invasion to a halt.
Indeed, alumni of Harvard Law and Columbia Law recently sued the State of Arizona for doing what the fed's illegally refuse to do: enforce the law.
In our new weird world, in our Fictive Reality, we understand that it would be racist to enforce what the Constitution constitutes with its texts, so we simply ignore them.
*** Bukhari:Vol 4 Bk 52 Nbr 268 ***
Mohammed said, "War is deceit."
So why should the Constitution constitute what its texts say in the case of the 1st Amendment? Not only would it be racist to burn a Ko-Ran, the book that deserves to be burned more than any other book in history, it would be an act of religious bigotry.
So we simply ignore the texts of the 1st Amendment.
By extension, it would be religious bigotry for us to know and openly discuss the contents of Islam, from the Ko-Ran and the Hah-Deaths and the Sear-Rah and the actual history of Moslems.
So we dare not do this. Welcome to the Islam Fictive Reality, a theater act that's been in production for some 1,400 years now.
Odd, but the Globo-Socialists, the fervid believers of the new racism, the hip and cool racism, trump the texts of the Constitution in much the same way Moslems trump the sacred texts of Islam. And the Globo-Socialistsdo often do so in order to advance the Cause of Islam.
The snake swallows its tail.
"...governments seem to place a high value on maintaining community harmony and keeping the peace nowadays."
And that in a nutshell is the slippery slope to islamofascism. Just look at the problems India is having with "community harmony." Or Bengladesh or Southern Thailand or anywhere muhammadans gather in sufficient numbers. Of course, the discordant notes always seem to originate in the muhammadan community.
hmmm.....
"I think the local media failed to ask the pertinent questions of the police. Their story on this issue was very limited."
Time to fire the news media.
I'm all for Pamela's and other posters idea to start forming our own media organization. Now if only I could win the lottery or something I would help out :P
I'm glad someone picked up on that. Yes.
Here's my two cents worth: In the US Supreme Court case from 2003, Virginia v. Black, the Court maintained that burning a cross KKK style in itself is not unconstitutional and cannot be prohibited but burning a cross KKK style "with the intent to intimidate" is not protected speech guaranteed by the First Amendment. Not all cross burning (loathsome and stupid as it is) is violative of the First Amendment right to free speech, but some cross burning is if the intent to intimidate is clearly present. Subtle distinction, no? Well, welcome to Constitutional Law 101.
Transfer here to burning of the Koran. Almost certainly not all burning of Korans would ipso facto be unprotected by the First Amendment, but leaving a burnt Koran on the doorstep of an Islamic center or mosque would be unprotected speech because of the intimidation factor and also because of the "time, place and manner" rule which allows for great freedom of expression but not every time, everywhere and every way.
I don't like the burning of books, but I even more dislike the threat of harm or death to those who burn books (thanks again Muslims of the world for nothing). The First Amendment gives great leeway to free speech but it is not absolute. When clear intimidation on the property of another (e.g., an Islamic center) occurs, free speech has arguably gone beyond its limit and will not be protected.
People must be smart about how to oppose Islam. They must be diligent in insuring that Muslims, whose religion is horrible, just wretched, where freedom of speech is concerned, are not made to look like martyrs or victims or, worst of all, on the right side of good law which the Muslim's religion would destroy if only it gets the chance. And once again we can see how a nefarious ideology tests the limits of a free society and how the members of that free society who cherish freedom must prove themselves not only opponents of people who don't understand liberty but who also take the proper measures not to violate their own principles while combating wickedness. A close call at times to be sure.
"Saturday evening's reading of the Qur’an at All Saints Episcopal Church..."
This is truly disgusting. I don't suppose the reading was preceded by a reading of the Bible at the local mosque, was it? I didn't think so.
What the hell is wrong with these Episcopal people?
Saturday evening's reading of the Qur’an at All Saints Episcopal Church...
This is truly disgusting.
Maybe they'll read this passage:
*** 8:12 ***
Remember thy Lord inspired the angels with the message, "I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Infidels: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them."
Now that's Allah talking, and if nothing else he and the dude who conjured him up out of thin air, the hairy back Mohammed, were consistent. Despairingly so.
Disgustingly so.
I wonder if the money came from Islamic sources, like CAIR.
Yes, I agree with gravenimage: the act of an individual burning a Koran does not constitute "violent suppression". To link the two, as Spencer does, is silly, and reflects the residues of PC MC in his system which, in turn, tends to explain his asymptotic analysis of Islam.
Virginia v. Black dealt with a Virginia statute which specifically criminalized cross-burning. The statute contained two provisions: 1) burning a cross with the intent to intimidate was a crime AND 2) intent to intimidate could be inferred from the burning itself. The Supreme Court said that it was ok to prohibit cross-burning with intent to intimidate but it was unconstitutional to allow the mere fact of burning to be sufficient to establish intent and that the First Amendment required the government to prove the intent to intimidate beyond a reasonable doubt.
The Michigan law is very different. It requires proof of intent to intimidate but it does not mention cross-burning. It criminalizes two things if done with intent to intimidate: 1) physical touching or assault of a person, or 2) damage or destruction of the property of another.
Under criminal law, the government must prove EACH AND EVERY element of the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. In this case, even if the government proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant acted with intent to intimidate, if they can not prove physical contact with another person or that the koran he burned belonged to someone other than the defendant, he would have to be acquitted.
There seems to be a pattern here:
Pelosi has a spokesperson named Nadeam Elshami. Then comes the threat to investigate those who are against the mosque in New York.
Lansing has a detective names Sherief Fadly. Then comes the 10,000 reward for burning their terror manual.
Could be wrong, then again, could be right.
This is where the ACLU jumps in.....
(cough, cough)
Thank you for your reply. I was not familiar with the details of the Michigan law but only addressing the general issue of what might constitute protected speech and what wouldn't. The Virginia v. Black case seemed to me the best case I could invoke to make this point.
Your first paragraph does not contradict anything I said but the specifics of the Michigan law are indeed interesting. But what if the Michigan law is overlooked by a plaintiff and such a plaintiff sues on the basis of it being a federal question and successfully takes it to federal court rather than state court? Then Virginia v. Black could be controlling. Any thoughts?
I'm disappointed that Abdul Ameer didn't suggest to you to apply for the $10,000 reward. You could have given the police his name and location and collected $10,000. Did you think about this?
Interesting comment.
As I see it, burning a Quran or a Flag is not meant to and does not reasonably intimidated but is an attempt to communicate a message about the dangers, or a message about disagreement with what the burning object symbolise, or it may be a statement about hypocrisy, or at worst it may be an attempt to insult (but I can insult someone without intimidating someone).
East Lansing Michigan Police Department also has a website.
Go to Home Page, scroll up and click Contact Us.
More than one person will hopefully hear of your response, you will not irritate an exhausted officer behind the phone, and your complaint will be on file. You can also communicate clearer and easier.
Free speech must be defended, a message must be sent.
Pamela, Robert, David, Geert, and others, are great spokesmen for the effort to wake up Americans to the dangers of Islam, and they have pointed out that we, the people, having the right to free speech, also have the right to draw cartoons of anything we want to, including the warrior Muhammad, as well as the right to burn anything we want to, including the right to burn Mein Kampf or my Koran.
But, if they want to have an even bigger impact, in addition to talking/writing about how Islam affects free speech, THEY ALSO NEED TO PROMOTE THE EXERCISE OF FREE SPEECH, ie: they need to promote DOING things that reinforce the whole concept of free speech. For example, they need to promote draw Muhammad days and they need to promote Koran burnings. A "National Free Speech Day" may be an option. Whatever/however/whenever it's done, it's sure to garner Muslim outrage. But that's a good thing because it's Muslim outrage that gets MSM coverage.
A message needs to be sent, a strong message, a message that Americans aren't going to sit by while free speech is trampled by Muslims, a message that will get the MSM's attention BECAUSE it will upset Muslims, something the MSM tries its best not to do and quickly condemns anyone who does.
A message needs to be sent. A message MUST be sent.
Islam is not a religion and should not be protected under the First Amendment just as communicating verbal threats is not protected under Free Speech. The Quran is filled with death threats towards all non-Muslims (which includes me). I don't normally believe burning any book is productive but I really don't understand why everyone is so scared of what might happen if someone does burn a Quran. The more I hear people talk about it the more I want to burn one myself to provoke the terrorists into showing themselves in all their ugliness wherever they are hiding so that we can deal with them sooner rather than later. Muslims are violent people and the book burning would just be an excuse they point to for doing what they would have done eventually anyway. If Jones said he was going to burn the New Testimate do you think he would be worried about Christians killing people in retaliation, Or if he burned the book of Mormon to have the Mormons rioting. The Jahovahs whitnesses burning down Catholic churches. Sounds stupid but not for Muslims. They do all that sh!t. They do that anyway, everyday, even to other Muslims. Islam is a violent political faction. Muslims are crazy enough to ignore the instinct of self-preservation. We fight to live while they fight to die. The Quran is a book of terrorism. Religion is a small part of it. I hope this Quran burning thing catches on. I would like to see this become the traditional 9/11 celebration all across America. Death to Islam
"When clear intimidation on the property of another (e.g., an Islamic center) occurs, free speech has arguably gone beyond its limit and will not be protected."
I think that probably is intimidation of doing harm, and hurt feelings don't qualify as harm. Surely burning the cross is intended to "hurt the feelings of Christians". The only difference is Christians don't threaten to terrorize the culprets, Muslims do. So it is the Muslims that are practicing hate speach.
Burning a cross by the KKK is not menat to hurt the feelings of Christians but to send a very pointed message to black Americans. Under some circumstances this could be pure intimidation. Ditto, I would argue, for some circumstances where a Koran is burned, though, of course, black Americans do not constitute a threat to our liberties whereas Islam does. Still, Islam is protected as a religion under the First Amendment so, disgusting as Islam is, folks must be smart respecting how they oppose it.
intimidation: persuade or dissuade by frightening: to frighten somebody into doing or not doing something, e.g. by means of violence or blackmail
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2005 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
Maybe we should have everybody burn a Koran in your fireplace day and post the videos on you tube.
I HATE HATE CRIMES - THAT IS WHY I HATE THE MUSLIM BIBLE (THE KORAN).
That bible is full of god-sanctioned crimes against Jews and Christians and Pagans, and even Muslim women because they are inferior to men in every way. The Koran itself is a Hate Crime! It advocated lots of hate crimes clearly - so why doesn't anyone point this out? Because anyone who does stand a damn good chance of ending up on a Muslim's hit list. That is the only reason the Muslims are doing so well against us. Because we are afraid to be murdered - think I'm kidding? Think about it please!
Lets look at the truth for burning books,the Health Dept. can enter any school where a child was confirmed to have a serious virus that can spread.
I've witnessed a case where a classmate had Rhumatic Fever and all the classroom deasks/chairs/books and burnable objects had to be torched to health reasons.
Don't tell me that the Quran would be exempt if a book store employee had a Fever infection and worked in the Religion section where all the shelves were emptied and every book was burned to stem the spread.
The Quran would be the perfect Virus-Jihad weapon to cover it with a deadly virus and then carry it on a plane or bring it to a public school to kill infidel chldren.
The bogus exalting of a book is just as dangerous as the Muslim Prayer times because they are strict and what happens when a child is drowning in the GZ Mosque pool during prayers?,is it Allah will to test Muslims and let the child die?,or what happens during another Terrorist attack when Muslim rescue workers know the attack is during Prayer time and they refuse to respond to rescue infidel civilians?.
So if Muhammed was 2" too short to reach up to touch Allah he would not stand on a Quran to reach him out of respect for the actual God rather than print on Tree-pulp?
BTW
Where the outrage where Iraq Mosques and bombed by other muslims and Qurans are burned in the fires, does CAIR feel that THOSE qurans aren't the REAL ones and THOSE muslims are apostates ?
CAIR can't have it both ways,Muslims murdering muslims is just as wrong for any murder but even the 9/11 Muslims seem to find favour with CAIR to be absolved because they created martyrs and didn't really kill muslims as an act of murder.
Sure Muslims died on 9/11 , the 19 hijackers were Muslims and that I agree with when Hooper and Awad assert the claim of muslim being killed on 9/11. The hijacker weren't muslims but all the martyrs were? Right Mr.Hooper , and everyone over 7.0' tall actually has dwarfism that is Misunderstood by the rest of us, and Dwarfs have acromegalia
that is misunderstood .
Remember that Tsunami that killed about 220'000 people in December about 2004 and most were Muslims, well a Muslim cleric in Toronto said it was Allah will to show his power and humble Muslims to obey the Quran.
This isn't the only nutbar cleric in canada that excuses away muslim death as allah's will, if so they it would be Allah's will if he was shot by a infidel to show how powerful he is to control the infidels by the mind-power brain waves.
I challenge CAIR to actually denouce the 9/11 muslim murderers,so far they only opine about how all acts of terrorism is wrong as if we didn't know that already.
I suppose they could charge him with a hate crime or trespassing.