Congressman Ellison (D-Muslim Brotherhood) takes on the "anti-Islam industry"

Ellison.jpg$13,350 from the group that wants to destroy the West from within


A remarkably dishonest and self-pitying interview from the Muslim Brotherhood's favorite Congressman. "Rep. Keith Ellison Talks About Beating the Anti-Islam Industry,'" by Seth Freed Wessler in ColorLines, September 16 (thanks to all who sent this in):

[...] Commenting on the controversy surrounding the Park 51 Islamic cultural center in downtown Manhattan, NYC Mayor Bloomberg recently said, "This whole issue, I think, will go away right after the next election." Do you think that these attacks are going to go away after elections?

I do think it'll die down but I don't think it will go away.

Why Not?

Because the people who are struck by fear and who are creating a climate of fear with the thought of this Islamic center are not going away. Yes, it's going to have a tougher time catching the public mind and it is going to have a tougher time getting any news. But you have to understand that there are some people who make their living trying to say, "The Muslims are coming, the Muslims are coming." It's important to bear in mind that these folks are not going to stop and pack it in just because the elections are over. ... They are just going to find something else to make a big deal about.

I don't think it's completely separate from elections either. Certainly certain people like Rick Lazio will try to exploit the upsurge in anti-Islamic ideas to their political advantage. But I don't think it's rooted in the election cycle. I think it's rooted in the idea that there are urges in society from time to time based on a multitude of factors that make some people want to scapegoat others.

In the early 1960s, you had people scapegoating Catholics, saying we can't have Kennedy be the president because then the pope will running the country. Of course we have a long history of scapegoating Jews as well. And we have a long history of racial discrimination and scapegoating. We've seen conservatives and people who want to keep America for people who have traditionally benefited. We've seen these elements scapegoat. We remember Reagan talking about welfare queens. He scapegoated single moms who are poor and tried to say that America's problems are because of them. And then George Bush said, "Well no, the problems are not because of them, but because of black men like Willie Horton and liberals like Dukakis, who let these guys run around." And then we went from there to, "Well the problem is with the gays, they're the problem. They're trying to get married and they're causing the problem." And then it's because of the Latinos, they're taking our jobs.

There is always a scapegoat de jour when fearful people blame the problems of society on a distinct groups that usually does not have much political power. [...]

This is the same dishonest narrative we have seen recently from Nicholas Kristof and many others: that Muslims in America today are facing a resurgence of the nativism that earlier targeted Catholics and others. I wonder who is feeding all these people their talking points. But in any case, the comparison is entirely fallacious: Catholics, Jews, blacks, Hispanics, welfare queens -- all the groups Ellison names as previous "scapegoats" -- weren't carrying out terror attacks against Americans and others worldwide. They weren't justifying violence and hatred by reference to Catholic or Jewish teaching. The people who were worried about the pope running the country could point to no action by the pope to try to achieve such power. The Muslim Brotherhood, in contrast, is dedicated in its own words to "eliminating and destroying Western civilization from within" so that Islam "is victorious over other religions."

The idea that non-Muslims are suspicious of Muslims out of bigotry, rather than out of a legitimate concern for both jihad terror and the utterly supine and often disingenuous response to it from peaceful and ostensibly moderate Muslims is nonsense of such an outstanding character that I wonder if Ellison himself even believes it, rather than simply seeing it as a useful line he can use to bamboozle the besotted Leftists to whom he is talking in ColorLines.

So why right now are Muslims being targeted? What is particular about this moment that Muslims are made the targets of scapegoating and fear?

Gee, ColorLines, I can't imagine. In the first place, there is no such scapegoating: hate crimes against Muslims are actually quite rare. But even if they weren't, do you really have to ask this question? Are you really unaware that when so many mass murderers and would-be mass murderers point to Islamic teaching as the motivation and justification for their actions (think of Nidal Hasan, the Fort Hood jihadist; Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the Christmas underwear jihadist; Faisal Shahzad, the Times Square jihadist; Khaled Sheikh Mohammed and Osama bin Laden on 9/11; the London jihad bombers of July 7, 2005; and so many, many others), that non-Muslims will continue to swallow the increasingly less convincing line that none of this violence has anything to do with Islam?

Of course, many will continue to do so, and they will continue to do so because of articles like this one, which claim victim status for Muslims and do their best to divert attention away from jihadist crimes. Ellison does mention a few of these jihad attacks farther down, but says nothing about the belief-system that motivated them, or what can and should be done within the Muslim community in the U.S. to help ensure that there will be no such attacks in the future -- that is, if that were on the Muslim community in America's to-do list.

Anyway, in response, the Congressman breaks out some half-baked Saidism:

One factor is that in Western thinking the Orient and people from the Orient are somehow foreign or different. Long before 9/11 occurred, you had a whole set of films where the villain is some Arab Muslim guy. Whether it's "True Lies" or it's "Back to the Future," whether it's Libyans who are blowing up something, whatever it is, it is deeply rooted stuff over the long term. What is Islam but the religion of the Orient? So there's that.

Remember The Sum of All Fears? The novel that featured jihadist villains, who became neo-Nazis in the film after Hamas-linked CAIR mau-maued the filmmakers? Has Ellison seen that one?

Then you have other things like 9/11 that make these things more pointed. Of course 9/11 was not the last thing. Like when Faizal Shahzad tried to blow up a bomb in Times Square or when Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab tried to blow up the flight from Amsterdam to Detroit or Nadal Hassan did what he did in Fort Hood. These things are incredibly damaging to the way that Americans feel about their Muslim and Middle Eastern neighbors.

No kidding, really? In any case, note that Ellison doesn't even come close to addressing the ideological wellsprings of such attacks.

The Muslim world is incredibly diverse. You have people who are Bosnian Muslims who are white as the moon and Liberian Muslims that are as black as the night. You have white Americans whose families have been here for generations and they have converted to Islam. One example is Hamza Yusuf who is a noted and brilliant scholar. So there is a broad diversity of Muslims. That's just the reality. You know, Islam is not all foreign. When I swore in on the Quran, I swore in on Thomas Jefferson's Quran....

Which he owned, of course, to study the beliefs of those who were menacing American ships in the Mediterranean.

In Park51 you have people who want to bring us back but there are more people who want to bring us forward. You can never suppress people who have reactionary, fearful ideas who want to divide people. But the people who stand up and do the right thing will prevail if they stick to it. It's like MLK said in the "Letter from a Birmingham Jail": "We will have to repent in this generation not merely for the hateful words and actions of the bad people, but for the appalling silence of the good people." But in the case of Park51, the good people have spoken up.

Should Obama and other leaders have moved faster to speak up?

I think the president has done a good job. He has spoken out clearly and properly on this issue of the mosque and the issue in Gainesville Florida. I am proud of the president. That is one of the good sides of the story. When you have a leader standing up and saying we are not going to divide Americans based on religion. I don't have any complaints about what Obama, Gates, Petraeus or Nadler has said.

They could have ducked and covered but instead they have contributed to the marginalization of people who make their living on this stuff, like Pam Geller and Robert Spencer. ...

Note that we're not marginal enough for Ellison to refrain from mentioning us at all. He would certainly like to see us marginalized, since I have been the one calling attention to his ties to the Muslim Brotherhood. As I noted in December 2008, when it was first revealed that Ellison's Hajj was paid for with $13,350 from the Muslim American Society:

The Muslim Brotherhood "must understand that their work in America is a kind of grand Jihad in eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and "sabotaging" its miserable house by their hands and the hands of the believers so that it is eliminated and God's religion is made victorious over all other religions." -- "An Explanatory Memorandum on the General Strategic Goal for the Brotherhood in North America," by Mohamed Akram, May 19, 1991.

What does that have to do with Congressman Ellison? Everything. The Muslim American Society paid for his Hajj. And what is the Muslim American Society? The Muslim Brotherhood.

"In recent years, the U.S. Brotherhood operated under the name Muslim American Society, according to documents and interviews. One of the nation's major Islamic groups, it was incorporated in Illinois in 1993 after a contentious debate among Brotherhood members." -- Chicago Tribune, 2004.

Imagine if a conservative Congressman had taken a trip that had been paid for by a Christian group that was, according to one of its own documents, dedicated to "eliminating and destroying the Western civilization from within and 'sabotaging' its miserable house" so that Christian law would replace the U.S. Constitution. I expect we would hear more of an outcry than we ever heard about Ellison's Brotherhood-funded hajj.

But I'm going to keep talking about it here. No wonder he wishes we were marginalized.

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Keith Ellison is pretty much right. He nailed it in the head.

Now how many of those that Rep. Keith Ellison defined as scapgoats want to kill us?

No it wasn't Catholics

No it Wasn't Jews

No it wasn't gays

No it wasn't welfare queens

No it wasn't even Latinos

The Answer is; Only one,--FUNDAMENTAL ISLAM.

Somebody do that to you once too often, Zinedine?

The Center for Security Policy report is up at, not surprisingly, centerforsecuritypolicy.org. There's not much in it we don't already know (thanks to people like Robert!) but it really throws the gauntlet in the faces of seditious sharia-pushers like Ellison. What it is going to take to get enough of the oblivious media-poisoned dhimmis out there to wake up and throw the bums like Ellison out.

Robert, as CEO of the "Anti-Islam Industry(tm)", you must be enjoying the perks: the corporate JW Lear jet, the thousand-dollar-a-plate fundraisers!
\sarc off

Keep doing your thing Keith.

Don't let the jealous, anti-muslim racists bring you down.

No FANNED, no FAVE for you, Zinedine.

You're on JihadWatch, NOT HuffPo.

Maybe you should go home now. Tell Mommy Ariana we said hello, ok?

Like Ariana cares what you think anyway.

lilredbird:

I hope the 177 page study gets plenty of discussion at sites like Roberts. It should be an eye opener for those that have failed to address the problem of the creeping and stealthy sharia in America.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article/547571/201009161912/The-Shariah-Threat.htm

Jealous? Of what??

Jealous of people who live in perpetual hate of "unbelievers?"
Jealous that we don't get to marry 9-year olds?
Jealous that we don't live in the 7th century?
Jealous of the utter disregard for human life?
Jealous of people whose God says it's okay for them to lie all day to advance the cause?

Please.

Yeah, we're jealous of your barbaric, medieval ideology and of those who lie to conceal its intentions. I'm sure that's what it is.

Oh, and what "race" is Islam, again? Moron.

What is particular about this moment that Muslims are made the targets of...fear?
..............

Wait...now *fearing* someone is a form of oppression? And here, I thought many Muslims rather enjoyed being feared by Infidels...

More:

The Muslim world is incredibly diverse. You have people who are Bosnian Muslims who are white as the moon and Liberian Muslims that are as black as the night.
..............

What laudable diversity! Look:

"Utah gunman, 18, was Muslim from Bosnia"

Killed 5 in crowded shopping mall before being gunned down

http://www.wnd.com/?pageId=40169

"Nigerian 'bomber' devout"

Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, 23, was charged Saturday at the US hospital where he was being treated for burns sustained while trying to detonate a powerful explosive on a flight from Amsterdam to Detroit with 290 people on board.

http://www.bangkokpost.com/breakingnews/163760/nigerian-bomber-devout

And this doesn't even cover all the Asian and Middle Eastern
Muslims who might want to murder us! How wonderfully diverse!

"Like Ariana cares what you think anyway."
---------------
So you ARE on a first-name basis...interesting.

Are you one of the "HuffPost SuperUsers?" or maybe a "HuffPost Community Moderator?"

Wouldn't surprise me, the way you write is just like they do - so cocky and sure and "self-righteous."

LOL!

Eleanor, google "Listen to Mommy". You'll get a laugh. I fanned and faved you anyway.

When you put someone with the intellectual caliber of Keith Ellison next to the new right these days, someone like Christine "masturbation is haram" O'Donnell, you almost want to chuckle. The Muslim is a bright and open-minded liberal and the Evangelical is a bigot who wants to impose her brand of Sharia on the all of you. And the crazy thing is that you probably would love to see her win too.

the Muslims are coming and they mean US harm

the Muslims are coming and they bring US Sharia

the Muslims are coming and they're up to no good except corrupting, undermining, pillaging, raping, burning, lying, deceiving, so as to purify for themselves this land

the Muslims are coming and coming

'Like Ariana cares what you think anyway'.

Does she care what 'you' think? Is she your girl friend, your mommy maybe?...

Ellison is an Islamic snake oil salesman...Selling the 'cure all' (Islam) to uneducated gullible hicks...

Sorry Kieth, only those already addicted to your snake oil (Zenadine, Islamic Empire) are buying...

Ellison is the sponsor for the bi-partisan (one Republican member) Congressional Muslim Staffers Association (CMSA).. a nice example of Taqiyya and Kitman is I have ever seen one.

http://hereticscrusade.com/series/cmsa/

someone like Christine "masturbation is haram" O'Donnell, you almost want to chuckle.

Your afraid of her too, and I thought Karl Rove was the only one...I bet Sarah Palin sends tingles up your leg...In real life, are you Rachel Maddow?

Mackie, I downloaded and have been reading this 177 page report in detail. It is an excellent compilation of basic material, with references to the primary sources, that covers everything from Al Queda, Hammas, Hezbollah, Hizb ut-Tahrir, Tablighi Jamaat, Jamaat ul-Fuqra and other spinoffs from the Muslim Brotherhood. The pdf version can be downloaded directly from CSP at http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/upload/wysiwyg/article%20pdfs/Shariah%20-%20The%20Threat%20to%20America%20(Team%20B%20Report)%2009142010.pdf

Highly recommended for keeping close at hand when engaging the HuffPo loonies.

BTW, does anyone know how secure Ellison's seat is in Congress, or the electoral demographics of his district?

Isn't this the preening boob who swore in on "The Jefferson Koran" without ever opening it or reading it or understanding that the book was written to debunk the "Alcoran", as its introduction showed, and to warn infidels of the malignant contents?

Ellison is a total tool.

And the Media failed to do its job and understand the import of "The Jefferson Koran", or read it themselves, or grasp its historical meaning, because they were trying to grease the political sliding board that allowed this infantile jerk to slip into office unexamined.

The MSM is Pravda, Jr.

"This is the same dishonest narrative we have seen recently from Nicholas Kristof and many others: that Muslims in America today are facing a resurgence of the nativism that earlier targeted Catholics and others. I wonder who is feeding all these people their talking points."

There's no need for talking points to be fed, when a dominant and mainstream paradigm already has all those axioms (and more) in place. I speak, of course, of the PC MC paradigm. What Kristof et every damn fucking al else are doing is simply breathing the air -- the "atmospherics" as Hugh would say.

Well, thanks Zinedine. What is O'Donnell's "brand" of Shariah? The brand that kills those who leave the faith? The brand that stones women for adultery? The brand that allows old men to marry 9-year olds? The brand that says you can't question anyone or anything?

Is that the "brand" of Shariah you mean?

With all due respect (because you seem like a bright person)you need to learn a little about the philosophy of Christianity before throwing out the idea that such a barbaric codified legal system, like Shariah, exists in Christianity.

You're just exaggerating about her "brand" of "Shariah," while I'm not exaggerating about Islam's "brand."

Zinedine said in a prevvious post:
"If I were to answer every question I receive, I would have to give up work and my social life. During my free time, I frankly prefer to hang out with my friends. And now that I think about it, it may be what's lacking for a lot of posters here who probably run to Jihad Watch right after finishing work (if you indeed have work).If you spend more time interacting with real people under natural daylight instead of the glow from your computer screen, you may be less prone to inventing imaginary friends and fantasizing about imaginary enemies."

No friends(fellow Jihadis) to hang out with tonight?
No free time tonight(to plan your Jihad attacks)?

And by the way,
“In the meantime, and take all the time you need, try to come up with valid points that could be considered when discussing Islam being a positive influence and contributor to society.”

Ho Hum!!! Still waiting!!!!

Yeah, Muslims are open-minded liberals who are all for gay rights: the right of a fifty-year-old mullah to b**f** his 12 year old charges.

Another reason I'm for stopping the Islamization of America.

Zinedine, like most of the HuffPo Leftist crowd you get hung up on inessential qualities and miss the real significance of the election of Christine O'Donnell and others like her who have managed to uproot and chase out the Old Guard who have persistently given the finger to voters. Do you think O'Donnell's election was just some kind of statistical fluke, rather than signaling a middle class revolt at the choices we have been offered? Think of it as house cleaning that is underway. Democrats could take a lesson here and engage in a some house cleaning of their own.

CTYankee, Zinedine, & Islamic Empire you seem to be new here. It must disturb all of you to know that America is waking up to the Islamic dhimmis (moderate Muslims who are afraid to see the TRUTH and speak for it) who have chosen to follow blind folded a faith that tolerates only like minded thinkers. The real sad element here is that you fear your own religion because it doesn't even tolerate you leaving it. Even if you did trip over the Truth ( which I doubt any of you ever will because of your close mindedness) you would still embrace that which you don't understand. Anyway Robert and Pamela will never bow to fools such as you because they do it in the name of FREEDOM something you cannot understand.

Tried to upload the pdf but http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org seems to be down.
Any mirror sites where I can download the document?

House cleaning indeed!

Its about time! The house(America) is infested with vermin.

Hopefully this is the long overdue first step in getting rid of the Totalitarian vermin in America!

RELIANCE OF THE TRAVELER, A STANDARD ISLAMIC LEGAL REFERENCE CERTIFIED BY THE WORLD'S CHIEF CENTER OF ISLAMIC AND ARABIC LEARNING (AL-AZHAR), SUPPORTS EXTREME DISCRIMINATION AGAINST NON-MUSLIMS AND WOMEN:

From page 590 of The Reliance of the Traveler/Umdat Al-Salik:

The indemnity [compensation for damages] for the death or injury of a woman is one-half the indemnity paid for a man.

The indemnity for a Jew or a Christian is one-third the indemnity paid for a Muslim.

The indemnity for a Zoroastrian [the Persian pre-Islamic religion, to which some Iranians still adhere] is one-fifteenth of that of a Muslim.

From the back cover of Reliance of the Traveler:

"There is no doubt that this translation is a valuable and important work, whether as a textbook for teaching Islamic jurisprudence to English speakers, or as a legal reference for use by scholars, educated laymen, and students in this language." - Dr. Taha Jabir al-Alwani, president of the International Institute of Islamic Thought
The back cover also says the book
...is the first translation of a standard Islamic legal reference in a European language to be certified by Al-Azhar, the Muslim world's oldest institution of higher learning. It presents an explanative interpretation of Umdat al-Salik, a classic Sunni manual of Sacred law...

According to Encylopedia Brittanica, Al-Azhar University is the "chief center of Islamic and Arabic learning in the world..."

Ellison...'The Muslim world is incredibly diverse. You have people who are Bosnian Muslims who are white as the moon and Liberian Muslims that are as black as the night. You have white Americans whose families have been here for generations and they have converted to Islam'.

A little racist talk thrown in just for fun...I guess Ellison didn't get the memo that all Mahoundians are equal, but some are a little more equal than others...Ellison is one of the 'not quite as equal'...

I think America (or at least the American right) is about to become what it hates the most. The tea-baggers want to vote for people who will end separation of church and state, who will ban religious freedom on insensitivity grounds, who will ban masturbation and are repressed vis-a-vis sexuality, who are unashamed of the death penalty, who want to increase freedom to carry guns, who phantasize about a past time when "everything was better". I mean you hate radical Muslims, but you sure want to be become exactly like them.

Keith is a moron, he's got no idea about the things he's doing. We don't want any Islamisation of the West, we want our values, enlightenment and human rights, no pre-stone age laws like those of the the Koran.

NCD, while I appreciate my Canadian neighbors, do you realize, that if we Americans clean house too vigorously, you Canadians will have a large influx of American Leftists--the same emceepeecee people who refuse to see any danger from Islam, and who salute Ontario's allowing Sharia into court?

New 'Jihad Threat Report' from the Center for Security Policy

Read more: http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/297688#ixzz0zpyauKtO

On September 16, IPS News Net has described the newly released report Shariah: A Threat to America - An Exercise in Competitive Analysis with the following sentence:

The report proposes the alarming conclusion that many apparently-lawful U.S. Muslims are waging a "stealth jihad" to impose sharia on the U.S. through peaceful means, and that virtually all major Muslim-American organisations are affiliates of the Muslim Brotherhood, the Sunni fundamentalist organisation.

The complete report is available as a PDF counting 177 pages, of which the last 25 consist of meticulous notes with citations of sources.
http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.org/upload/wysiwyg/article%20pdfs/Shariah%20-%20The%20Threat%20to%20America%20%28Team%20B%20Report%29%2009142010.pdf

Zinedine said "When you put someone with the intellectual caliber of Keith Ellison next to the new right these days, someone like Christine "masturbation is haram" O'Donnell, you almost want to chuckle. The Muslim is a bright and open-minded liberal and the Evangelical is a bigot who wants to impose her brand of Sharia on the all of you. And the crazy thing is that you probably would love to see her win too."

I think everyone can see you are comparing Apples to Oranges. Christine O'Donnell is entitled to her own personal beliefs however ridiculous they may be. To compare her mental acuity on the subject of Islamic Supremacism to that of Keith Ellison is a pretty much a joke. She does not claim to be an authoritative person on the subject matter. I think here you are using a "Straw Man" Argument.

Now if you compared Robert Spencer to Keith Ellison in the matters of Islamic Supremacism, Keith would get "shizz-owned".

"We don't want any Islamisation of the West, we want our values, enlightenment and human rights, no pre-stone age laws like those of the the Koran."

I think mostly you just want to keep your precious alcohol. Most Americans are alcoholic and fear that the Super Secret Jihadist Muslims will take that away from them.

Ellison speaks a good line about his solicitude for what his Jewish neighbors once suffered. So, why does he follow a book which calls them the kin of apes and pigs (Qu'ran 7:166 and 5:60), and which is taken in that sense by loads of his coreligionists in countries where the general understanding of Arabic is infinitely better than his own?

And, for the record, I note that America's first "black" president, as the descendant of East African Muslims, descends from some of the last people to hunt and capture slaves for sale abroad (until perfijuss Albion put an end to it).

As for Ellison, his invoking the spectres of racism and nativism past is harping on his own constituencies' fears and guilt feelings, painting the Tea Partyers and SIOA folks as the sinister, alien "other".

Kepha,

The sinister, threatening, semi-oriental "other".

Now I know you are a nutjob. I think you escaped from the zoo. Here's the place you should be http://www.democraticunderground.com/

'I think America (or at least the American right) is about to become what it hates the most....'

Your view is warped...You can't see the forest because there are too many trees in the way...

But even if you were right, I would rather live with those people and their rules than Islam and sharia...I bet it would bother you a lot if masturbation was banned, since you seem to be obsessed with it...

"I do think it'll die down but I don't think it will go away.

Why Not?

Because the people who are struck by fear and who are creating a climate of fear with the thought of this Islamic center are not going away."

Oh it's not fear babe, it's fury. And now it's not just me who is onto you. It's my associates, and family members and friends and acquaintances. But you keep on whining. There is nothing Americans like more than to put a liar who cries "wolf" one too many times firmly in their place. If it's an ass kicking you want we'll be happy to oblige.

I think mostly you just want to keep your precious alcohol. Most Americans are alcoholic...

I think that is a blatant lie...If not produce some facts that 'MOST' American are alcoholics...

You're damned right Yusef. If you take away my alcohol, how will I ever get my toes done?

Everybody, just say "no" to pedicure jihad.

Did this worm actually criticize Ronald Reagan?

nabi ZK (pbum)

What's this about the mooselimb summit in NYC this weekend to support the rabat? NBC is reporting that the ummah are planning a little gathering to cook up new ways to "fight religious bigotry". Sounds like we rattled some cages last weekend and Rauf has been beating the bushes to get himself some backup.

Yusef, Islam would drive any sane person to drink. That's why your pediprophet banned the alcohol. He didn't want the competition.

Zinedine said in a prevvious post:
"If I were to answer every question I receive, I would have to give up work and my social life. During my free time, I frankly prefer to hang out with my friends. And now that I think about it, it may be what's lacking for a lot of posters here who probably run to Jihad Watch right after finishing work (if you indeed have work).If you spend more time interacting with real people under natural daylight instead of the glow from your computer screen, you may be less prone to inventing imaginary friends and fantasizing about imaginary enemies."

I seldom waste my time on trolls, but couldn't resist this once.

Folks this is a prime example of the utter arrogance(based on fantasies) of these barbarians. They contribute (and have contributed) nothing to the world, yet view themselves as the ultimate intellectuals & supreme rulers of the universe despite the fact that the majority of them live in hovels.

Isabella

Love your post,and your sentiment. We may as well play that Dylan rag, "The Times They are a'Changin." The people who make this country great will be vindicated in November, and the traitors are going down.

duh_swami:

My cousin is a reservist medical doctor who's had two tours of Afghanistan. He said that almost every Afghan male he's treated was carrying a flask of "cough syrup." It was actually alcohol. I don't know many Americans who carry alcohol on their person; it sounds like alcohol is "precious" in Afghanistan.

"BTW, does anyone know how secure Ellison's seat is in Congress, or the electoral demographics of his district?"

Don't know the exact demographics of Ellison's district, but Minnesota as a whole is 89% white, 4.5% black; so even if all the blacks in the state were concentrated in his district, they wouldn't be a majority.
At any rate, he's probably pretty safe; in 2008 he won in a 3-way race with more than twice as many votes as his opponents combined. It was the PC-MC white vote that elected him, just like it did BHO.

Thanks Medina! ; )

As to the Muslims who carry "cough syrup" remember, certain things are haram in Islam, except when they aren't.

As to the moral superiority of Zinedine and his/her "frankly" preferring to hang out with friends, I call B.S. If so, why does he/she spend so much time on this website?

When Reagan talked about "welfare queens", he wasn't talking about single mothers. He was talking about cheats like the woman in the L.A. area who falsely collected hundreds of thousands of dollars from the taxpayers. [And that's 1980 dollars, so figure about triple that for 2010 equivalent.] She was registered under dozens of aliases all over the L.A. area, using fake i.d.'s, disguises and wigs, mail drops, and residences of convenience to dupe the case-workers. She owned a Rolls-Royce and a Jaguar, among other vehicles.
Reagan was also talking about the laxity in enforcing welfare rules and in investigating welfare claims.
Cheating is rampant in many welfare programs. It's estimated that nearly 1/3 of Medicaid payments are fraudulent.

To the stoneage throwback, why don't you want to convert to Christianity?
The fight against islamization has nothing to do with alcohol.

"... Islam would drive any sane person to drink. That's why your pediprophet banned the alcohol. He didn't want the competition."

I remember Sen. and VP Hubert Humphrey saying, in regard to the drug problem, that he didn't understand why people used drugs: "I don't need drugs to get high, I'm high on life."
In the case of Mo, he didn't need alcohol to get high, he was high on death.

IN THE EARLIEST MUSLIM BIOGRAPHY OF MUHAMMAD, pages 511-517 (758-766 in the Arabic) WE LEARN HOW IN KHAYBAR MUHAMMAD ORDERED THE TORTURE AND BEHEADING OF A MAN IN ORDER TO GET HOLD OF A TREASURE, AND HOW THAT NIGHT MUHAMMAD TOOK INTO HIS PRIVATE TENT FOR CONSUMMATION OF "MARRIAGE" THE TORTURED MAN'S WIFE, WHOSE FATHER AND OTHER MALE RELATIVES MUHAMMAD HAD JUST KILLED:

Kinana b. al-Rabi', who had the custody of the treasure of the B. al-Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (Tabari says "was brought") to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle [Muhammad] said to Kinana, 'Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?' he said Yes. The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle [Muhammad] gave orders to al-Zubayr b. al-'Awwam, 'Torture him until you extract what he has,' so he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head in revenge for his brother Mahmud. [-- page 515 (763-764 in the Arabic)]
...The apostle took captives...among whom was Safiya d. Huyayy b. Akhtab who had been the wife of Kinana b. al-Rabi’ b. Abu’l-Huqayq, and two cousins of hers. The apostle chose Safiya for himself. [-- page 511 (758 in the Arabic)]
When the apostle married Safiya in Khaybar or on the way, she having been beautified and combed, and got in a fit state for the apostle by Umm Sulaym d. Milhan mother of Anas b. Malik, the apostle passed the night with her in a tent of his. Abu Ayyub, Khalid b. Zayd brother of B. al-Najjar passed the night girt with his sword, guarding the apostle and going round the tent until in the morning the apostle saw him and asked him what he meant by his action. He replied, ‘I was afraid for you with this woman for you have killed her father, her husband, and her people, and till recently she was in unbelief, so I was afraid for you on her account.’ They allege that the apostle said ‘O God, preserve Abu Ayyub as he spent the night preserving me.’ [-- page 516-517 (766 in the Arabic)]

THE ABOVE REPORT OF MUHAMMAD'S "MARRIAGE" TO SAFIYA IS EXTENDED BELOW IN A HADITH FROM THE MOST CANONICAL HADITH COLLECTION, SAHIH BUKHARI:

IS THIS MARRIAGE? OR RAPE?
Bukhari – Volume 1, Book 8, Number 367

Narrated ‘Abdul ‘Aziz:
Anas said, ‘When Allah’s Apostle invaded Khaibar, we offered the Fajr prayer there yearly in the morning) when it was still dark. The Prophet rode and Abu Talha rode too and I was riding behind Abu Talha. The Prophet passed through the lane of Khaibar quickly and my knee was touching the thigh of the Prophet . He uncovered his thigh and I saw the whiteness of the thigh of the Prophet. When he entered the town, he said, ‘Allahu Akbar! Khaibar is ruined. Whenever we approach near a (hostile) nation (to fight) then evil will be the morning of those who have been warned.’ He repeated this thrice. The people came out for their jobs and some of them said, ‘Muhammad (has come).’ (Some of our companions added, “With his army.”) We conquered Khaibar, took the captives, and the booty was collected. Dihya came and said, ‘O Allah’s Prophet! Give me a slave girl from the captives.’ The Prophet said, ‘Go and take any slave girl.’ He took Safiya bint Huyai. A man came to the Prophet and said, ‘O Allah’s Apostles! You gave Safiya bint Huyai to Dihya and she is the chief mistress of the tribes of Quraiza and An-Nadir and she befits none but you.’ So the Prophet said, ‘Bring him along with her.’ So Dihya came with her and when the Prophet saw her, he said to Dihya, ‘Take any slave girl other than her from the captives.’ Anas added: The Prophet then manumitted her and married her.”
Thabit asked Anas, “O Abu Hamza! What did the Prophet pay her (as Mahr)?” He said, “Her self was her Mahr for he manumitted her and then married her.” Anas added, “While on the way, Um Sulaim dressed her for marriage (ceremony) and at night she sent her as a bride to the Prophet . So the Prophet was a bridegroom and he said, ‘Whoever has anything (food) should bring it.’ He spread out a leather sheet (for the food) and some brought dates and others cooking butter. (I think he (Anas) mentioned As-SawTq). So they prepared a dish of Hais (a kind of meal). And that was Walrma (the marriage banquet) of Allah’s Apostle .”

IN CORE ISLAMIC TEXTS MUHAMMAD ORDERED DEATH TO THOSE WHO LEAVE ISLAM
In Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical of hadith collections, Muhammad said, "Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him." Various other canonical hadiths attest that Muhammad called for death to those who leave Islam. That's why even today all the schools of Islamic law prescribe death for apostasy from Islam.

QUR'AN SAYS BEAT YOUR WOMEN

Below are ten translations of the notorious portion of Qur'an Chapter 4, Verse 34, the beat-your-disobedient-woman verse. Actually, the verse says you only have to "fear" or suspect disobedience from her to beat her.

Some of the translators insert the word (lightly) after "beat." None of the insertions in parentheses are in the original Arabic of the Qur'an.

Six of the ten translations use the word "beat."

Two translations use the word "scourge," which as a verb means to whip.

And two of the translations use the word "chastise." Most dictionaries give corporal punishment (beating, or "stripes") as one of the main definitions of "chastise."

Pickthall: "and scourge them"
Yusuf Ali: "(And last) beat them (lightly)"
Al-Hilali/Khan: "(and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful)"
Shakir: "and beat them"
Sher Ali: "and chastise them"
Khalifa: "then you may (as a last alternative) beat them"
Arberry: "and beat them"
Rodwell: "and scourge them"
Sale: "and chastise them"
Asad: "then beat them"
Dawood: "and beat them."

Maybe if you Muslims enjoyed some alcohol once in a while you wouldn't be a bunch of fanatic psychopaths. Maybe it'll kill the area of your collective brains that tells you that murder is OK, but drinking is haram.

Too bad Allah didn't frown upon killing like he frowned upon freedom. If he did, maybe Muslims wouldn't be such a problem for the civilized world.

For the record, as bad as your arguments used to be, they're getting even worse recently. Your "alcohol comment" is indicative of this. Have to wonder if you can top this one. I'm bettin' you can. Go for it.

You're a true treasure, traeh. Just wanted to let you know how much I appreciate, and learn from, all of your incredible postings!

You do a fantastic job!

IN CORE ISLAMIC TEXTS, MUHAMMAD CONDEMNS PAINTING ANIMATE BEINGS, RIPS UP ART, SAYS PAINTERS WILL SUFFER THE SEVEREST PUNISHMENT

Several examples from Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical of hadith collections:

Volume 8, Book 73, Number 130:
Narrated 'Aisha:

The Prophet entered upon me while there was a curtain having pictures (of animals) in the house. His face got red with anger, and then he got hold of the curtain and tore it into pieces. The Prophet said, "Such people as paint these pictures will receive the severest punishment on the Day of Resurrection ."

Volume 7, Book 72, Number 834:
Narrated Muslim:

We were with Masruq at the house of Yasar bin Numair. Masruq saw pictures on his terrace and said, "I heard 'Abdullah saying that he heard the Prophet saying, "The people who will receive the severest punishment from Allah will be the picture makers.'"

Volume 3, Book 34, Number 428:
Narrated Said bin Abu Al-Hasan:

While I was with Ibn 'Abbas a man came and said, "O father of 'Abbas! My sustenance is from my manual profession and I make these pictures." Ibn 'Abbas said, "I will tell you only what I heard from Allah's Apostle . I heard him saying, 'Whoever makes a picture will be punished by Allah till he puts life in it, and he will never be able to put life in it.' " Hearing this, that man heaved a sigh and his face turned pale. Ibn 'Abbas said to him, "What a pity! If you insist on making pictures I advise you to make pictures of trees and any other unanimated objects."


Zinedine you make me laugh because you make the point for the right 100%. You accuse the Tea Party of taking away rights? Muslims have no rights only the right to agree with the religious controlling fanatics. You accuse the Tea Party of what sexual conservatism? Yet there is no more abuse of control over sexuality anywhere as compared to Islam. In Iran women can't even think of just looking at another man if she is married without reprise. They have to cover their faces, their bodies, and even worry about the least accusation made by family or friends. That's freedom? The Tea Party stands FOR separation of church and state but also believes that their is nothing wrong with debating the Constitution when it attacked even on religious grounds. To think that the Constitution was not influenced by Judaism, Catholicism, Protestantism, and other contributors would be to think that it was pulled out of thin air. I will tell you that Islamism is the fusion of church and state and has nothing to do with FREEDOM OF RELIGION and the Tea Party will in fact fight Shariah Law. You are so weak in your argument that I would call you to study the Constitution and open your mind as to what Robert and Pamela are trying to show you instead of trying to be politically correct or lets say ignorant.

Thanks Eastview but the whole site seems to be down.
Too many users uploading the report....
:-)

IN CORE ISLAMIC TEXTS, MUHAMMAD SAYS THE USE OF MUSICAL INSTRUMENTS IS UNLAWFUL

From Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:

Volume 7, Book 69, Number 494v:

Narrated Abu 'Amir or Abu Malik Al-Ash'ari:

that he heard the Prophet saying, "From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks and the use of musical instruments, as lawful. And there will be some people who will stay near the side of a mountain and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, 'Return to us tomorrow.' Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and He will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection."

Ditto, Eleanor. Traeh has done a yeoman's job in conveying to many just how very warped Islam's founder really was. To know Mohammed is to despise Islam and traeh has contributed to this particular truth search significantly.

WIDELY RESPECTED HISTORIAN OF THE MIDDLE EAST SAYS THE OVERWHELMING MAJORITY OF USES OF THE WORD "JIHAD" IN ISLAM'S CORE TEXTS ARE MILITARY IN MEANING

Bernard Lewis writes on page 72 of his book The Political Language of Islam, that

...the overwhelming majority of classical theologians, jurists, and traditionalists [Muslim specialists in the Qur'an, hadith, and Sunna] ... understood the obligation of jihad in a military sense.
Lewis also writes, on page 31 of his book The Crisis of Islam, that
For most of the fourteen centuries of recorded Muslim history, jihad was most commonly interpreted to mean armed struggle for the defense or advancement of Muslim power.

***********************************************************

IN CORE ISLAMIC TEXTS, MUHAMMAD GOES TO WAR TO IMPOSE ISLAM
In Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical of hadith collections, Muhammad said,
Volume 1, Book 8, Number 387

"I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.' And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah."

In other words, Muhammad says that if you are non-Muslim, your right to life will not be sacred to Muslims, nor your right to property.

*********************************************************

IN CORE ISLAMIC TEXTS, MUHAMMAD REFERS TO HELP FROM TERROR, HIS RIGHT TO BOOTY, AND HIS MISSION TO ALL MANKIND

In one of the two most canonical hadith collections, Sahih Muslim:

Book 4, Number 1062:

Abu Huraira reported that the Messenger of Allah [Muhammad] (may peace be upon him) said: I have been given superiority over the other prophets in six respects: I have been given words which are concise but comprehensive in meaning; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies): spoils have been made lawful to me: the earth has been made for me clean and a place of worship; I have been sent to all mankind and the line of prophets is closed with me.

***************************************************

MUHAMMAD SAYS HE HAS BEEN MADE VICTORIOUS WITH TERROR AND ALL THE TREASURES OF THE WORLD ARE FOR ISLAM
In Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection,
Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] said, "I have been sent with the shortest expressions bearing the widest meanings, and I have been made victorious with terror (cast in the hearts of the enemy), and while I was sleeping, the keys of the treasures of the world were brought to me and put in my hand." Abu Huraira added: Allah's Apostle has left the world and now you, people, are bringing out those treasures (i.e. the Prophet did not benefit by them).

**************************************

TERROR AND BEHEADING IN THE QUR'AN
Qur'an Chapter 8, Verse 12:

When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

**************************************

QUR'AN SAYS FIGHT AND BE HARSH:
Qur'an Chapter 9, Verse 123:

O ye who believe! Fight those of the disbelievers who are near to you, and let them find harshness in you, and know that Allah is with those who keep their duty (unto Him).

**************************************

IN THE MUSLIM BIOGRAPHY OF MUHAMMAD, on page 672 (992 in the Arabic) MUHAMMAD SAYS

...kill those who disbelieve in God.

Eleanor and Wellington,
Thank you very much for the encouragement. Sometimes I fear I'm polluting comments threads by posting all these Islamic texts. But then I go ahead anyway because I assume some significant number of the tens of thousands of people who visit this website don't know, but do want to know, about these texts, so I go ahead and post.

traeh

Thanks. I have a lot of the verses memorized and I enjoy reciting them to disbelieving dhimmis who have never read them.

The truth is our best weapon, and we appreciate you spreading it.

Eleanor and Wellington, I've begun lately to go to the websites from which Robert Spencer takes excerpts of stories, and post these Islamic texts there, too.

Traeh - you are doing a great job - but I would suggest that you pace yourself...It may be that if there are too many quotes all at once, then people won't read them. However, others may be of a different mind on that.

But I really appreciated the quote that clarified why they riot all over the world if there is a picture of Mohammad.

The reason for Mohammad proclaiming Alcohol was a sin? Because on one of their "raids" they got their asses handed to them. Half the guys "died with their bellies still full of alcohol from that morning or previous night". So in order to keep his raiding parties in top shape and keep from getting their asses kicked again, he banned Alcohol. Now we just have a bunch of murderous and uptight Muslims.

Thank you traeh. I used your references to show my son in law the true meaning and beauty of mohametanism just last weekend. Truly it is better to expose this cult for what it is than to burn their book.

nabi ZK (pbum)

Arcadia P wrote:

CTYankee, Zinedine, & Islamic Empire you seem to be new here.
..................

Arcadia, Zinedine does appear to be pretty new—unless it's and old poster under a new name. Islamic Empire is one of the most notorious Islamic trolls here, who sometimes disappears for a while, then inevitably turns up again. He has been leaving his vile comments here for a year or two.

CTYankee, however, has been posting here, I believe, longer than I have—and I found Jihad Watch around 2005 or 2006.

CTYankee is neither Muslim nor a troll, and is in fact one of the stalwart—if somewhat less frequent—Jihad Watch posters. If you read his post again, I think you will see that he had tongue planted firmly in cheek.

marylouise,
Thank you, I'll keep your input in mind.

Hell yeah my friend,

“Yoosif” should definitely go out and drink some 'jungle juice' tonight.

In fact this may help bring him/her back to their NON-islamic senses!

But first... Yuffuf should pick him/herself up a pound or two of double-smoked bacon and make several tasty BLT’s and chow down on them casting off their fears of Allah/Muhammad forever more.

Making sure of course that all pigs were raised and treated ethically - unlike all goats slaughtered during this years Ramadan.

Well, I tried to post a couple of excerpts from the Islamic texts at "Color Lines," from which the above story about Ellison is excerpted. "Color Lines" quickly deleted them, and then banned me from commenting.

But other media have not deleted my comments, so I'll keep doing it sowing seeds out there.

Treah, you seem to have a near encyclopedic knowledge of Islamic texts, especially the Hadith. The more we can disseminate knowledge about the disturbing content of original, core Islamic texts, the better.

If I had any suggestion, it might be that you try to tailor your selections to the article at hand when possible. It's a minor point, though—I think you're doing great work.

gravenimage and marylouise,
I'll try to take your advice. Maybe a little more spacing and pacing, as marylouise said. I could perhaps still get away with posting a bunch of them once in a while, but more spaced out. Often I do what gravenimage suggested: post just one or two that are directly suited to the particular story posted by Robert Spencer. But occasionally I want to post a half dozen, even if spread out, because the cumulative effect of a half dozen is more persuasive than one or two, since someone might see one or two and think, oh, that's just cherry-picking. But seeing Muhammad behave or talk that way in half a dozen or more different contexts helps people to see this description of Islam is real, not cherry picking or fluke. Still, I'll try to keep what you both said in mind.

gravenimage, definitely not even close to encyclopedic. I just collect texts that will serve as a warning about Islam to people who believe in freedom.

zonie kafir, I'm very glad if it helped your son-in-law to "get it." That's just why I post these things.

Only because I've had a wonderful experience with it, I'd suggest perhaps setting up a free TypePad blog, like I did. Mine is for satire, but if you did one, you could highlight the Hadith in relation to contemporary events, and literally anything else you want (your own mini-JW, only much more text based? A great online resource brought to you by traeh!).

You could then link to it for certain things. Maybe then, at sites like Color Lines, you could link to your blog post instead of pasting the text there. Might not catch the eye of a moderator as easily?

Space is virtually unlimited (I have over 125 posts that are pretty big, with pix and other items.)

Just a suggestion. Oh, and it allows your stuff to go into Google's search engine, so if folks are searching for a specific point, they could find you.

Like I said, it's free, and worth considering (trust me, I don't benefit in any way from "signing people up." LOL! I've just had a great experience with it and can recommend it highly).

Yes, a good idea, and I've been thinking about it.

Yawn. The oldest talking point in the book.

I'm surprised you have time to comment on Jihadwatch. Shouldn't you be busy getting a blister on your forehead praying towards a black rock and then planning your next terrorist attack? Priorities, priorities.

"I think America (or at least the American right) is about to become what it hates the most. The tea-baggers want to vote for people who will end separation of church and state"

Wrong, although your muslim terrorist friends want to do that.

"who will ban religious freedom on insensitivity grounds"

Wrong, although your muslim terrorist friends want to do that and have been doing it for centuries.

"who will ban masturbation and are repressed vis-a-vis sexuality"

Wrong, although your muslim terrorist friends love to masturbate and are definitely sexually repressed. Pakistan is the world leader in searches for pornography... you know, a 98% muslim country.

"who are unashamed of the death penalty"

Wrong, although your muslim terrorist friends love the death penalty. Don't you?

"who want to increase freedom to carry guns"

Yes, I agree on that. When law abiding citizens are allowed to carry guns crime is reduced, and numerous studies confirm exactly that. In fact, the main reason I'm armed and dangerous is because of muslims like you.

"who phantasize about a past time when "everything was better"."

Wrong again. Things have never been better although the world at large would be much better had mohammad never been possessed by a demon. BTW, learn to spell... this isn't the 7th century anymore. Since you are muslim you think islam and the "prophet" mohammad (piss be upon him) are the best thing ever you should like the past when "everything was better".

"I mean you hate radical Muslims, but you sure want to be become exactly like them."

Wrong. You would rejoice if that were the case because as a radical muslim you need all the help you can get - however, nobody wants to become exactly like radical muslims except muslims. muslims are always moving towards being radical because it's in the koran. The more "muslim" one becomes, the more likely one will start killing "infidels". There is no comparison of islam to any other religion, as you well know. islam is the only religion that sanctions murders, rapes, beatings, amputations, hangings, pedophilia, etc.

Now that you've read this why don't you continue praying towards the black rock to help you figure out how to respond... your blister is getting small and you need to increase it's size.

Please let me know if you do, because it would be a regular stop for me!

Keep on a postin' there traeh..I have an app that "burns" up text..

bford, I am afraid you're about to eat ass for breakfast since it's about to be served to you in a platter.

"I think America (or at least the American right) is about to become what it hates the most. The tea-baggers want to vote for people who will end separation of church and state

Wrong, although your muslim terrorist friends want to do that."

http://www.secularnewsdaily.com/2010/05/08/palin-founders-meant-to-base-law-on-bible-and-ten-commandments/

"who will ban religious freedom on insensitivity grounds"

Wrong, although your muslim terrorist friends want to do that and have been doing it for centuries.

http://www.hapblog.com/2010/08/republican-leader-john-boehner-rep.html

"who will ban masturbation and are repressed vis-a-vis sexuality"

Wrong, although your muslim terrorist friends love to masturbate and are definitely sexually repressed. Pakistan is the world leader in searches for pornography... you know, a 98% muslim country."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/chi-100917christine-odonnell-sex-comments,0,161402.story

"who are unashamed of the death penalty"

Wrong, although your muslim terrorist friends love the death penalty. Don't you?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/teresa-lewis-virginia-woman-borderline-mental-retardation-executed/story?id=11587387

"who want to increase freedom to carry guns"

Yes, I agree on that. When law abiding citizens are allowed to carry guns crime is reduced, and numerous studies confirm exactly that. In fact, the main reason I'm armed and dangerous is because of muslims like you.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/05/AR2010050505211.html

"who phantasize about a past time when "everything was better"."

Wrong again. Things have never been better although the world at large would be much better had mohammad never been possessed by a demon. BTW, learn to spell... this isn't the 7th century anymore. Since you are muslim you think islam and the "prophet" mohammad (piss be upon him) are the best thing ever you should like the past when "everything was better".

Radical Muslim : Caliphate = Tea-bagger : Slave-master confederacy

http://chattahbox.com/us/2010/09/15/look-away-dixie-land-s-c-republicans-mingle-with-slaves/

Face it, you are no different than radical Muslims, and thank God that liberals in your country are still fighting for the secularism that you want to do away with. Man, you are so confused.

Can I do the same as Traeh, but with the Bible? Please dare me.

z man. Your stupid cut and paste BS does not impress us here. I, nabi ZK (pbum), dare you to match traeh. We all know the moral equiv argument very well. You dumbass. You will not be the first to bring it. It is centuries old actually. So tired. So stupid. It even has a name if you know what the nabi means.

Take your infantile arguments to people who have not heard them 1000 times. Oh yeah. Violent passages in the old testament. Yawn. All specifically relating to events of ancient history. But nothing to compare with the vile hatred of the mohametan texts. Which texts are still being taken quite seriously by many of the the cultists. Read the news sometime you cretin.

And the new testament? Not so violent, eh? Jesus the rapist. Jesus the warlord and mass murderer. Jesus demanding the stoning of women. Jesus the pedophile. Jesus the drinker of camel piss spinning bullshit about how his snot is a cure all. Yeah eat the snot of Jesus and cure all aliments. Oh yeah Jesus proclaiming that the world is flat and that the sun sets in a muddy pond at the edge of the world. Alexander, Dzul Quarnain, actually went there if you can believe it! If you are that stupid. Too bad mohamet had to quote the scientific theories of his day as unvarnished truth. Science moved on and the korn could not making all of this mohametan kornic science quite humorous.

What a moron you are. What an ass. A self impressed idiot.

nabi ZK (pbum)

Traeh, count me in with Eleanor, Wellington, Medina.

You know, I like to discuss the topic of Islam & Democracy whenever I can and I can in effect do it quite often.

And then the information Spencer, Geller and you and of course others provide help me so often. I feel in debate safe in the knowledge that my allies are as it were "on the information high ground".

Thanks a lot.

http://hurryupharry.org/2010/09/13/it-cannot-happen-here-in-america/


RezaV ( 13 September 2010, 9:50 pm)

"The fact is that all 4 main Sunni schools of Islamic jurisprudence, as well as the Shia school, advocate death for apostasy. According to the BBC link, one third of young British Muslims agree that people like me should be killed.

So perhaps you’ll understand why I become incensed whenever I hear that default mantra “The Vast Majority of Moderate Muslims” that ‘liberals’ bovinely prefix to all comments on matters Islamic.

In Iran and many other Muslim-majority countries I wouldn’t dare mention that I’m an ex-Muslim. In some countries I could be imprisoned, beaten and even executed. That’s ‘officially’. Unofficially, a righteous Muslim anywhere can kill me with impunity as I am “mortat”. A dead man walking. Hell, many consider it their Islamic duty to ‘put me down’.

You asked: “From your own experience, would you say that Islam tends to be more or less tolerant of those were brought up Muslim and have abandoned or changed their faith, than other mainstream religions?”
The fact that Islam is the ONLY major religion that has prominent and highly respected scholars that advocate killing apostates would suggest that it is a trifle “less tolerant”.

As for my “own experience”, my closest relatives aren’t observant. Some even loathe Islam as much as I do. However, I would never mention that I have ‘left’ Islam to my religious relatives as I know I would be inviting a succession of visits, attempts at persuasion, hours of religious clap-tap followed by inevitable upset or downright hostility. I don’t think that any of my relatives would want to kill me as an apostate, however, I can imagine that a couple would become violent if I mentioned what I thought about Mohammad or tried to help another Muslim liberate themselves from the slavery of Islam.

So, what’s it like to be an ‘apostate’ from Islam in Britain? Well, as you’d imagine, it isn’t actually an issue when I’m with non-Muslims. I don’t feel I need to hide it when I’m among my friends or work colleagues.
However, when I’m with anyone who I think might be a Muslim I’ll hide it. After all, how am I to know that they’re not one of the 33% of British Muslims, who according to the BBC, would support my murder?

And finally it’s so funny when you meet another ex-Muslim. I recently had a Kurdish minicab driver. The journey started with “salam aleikom” followed by 20 minutes of painfully careful and convoluted conversation before we realised that we were both ex-Muslims. He was scared of me too.
I left the car thinking how it must have been a bit like this for gay men, when homosexuality was illegal and fair game for beatings a few decades ago…
That’s what it’s like being an ex-Muslim in Britain today. And that’s why left-wing liberal apologists, who haven’t a f*cking clue about Islam make me want to puke so.

Let’s take the outcry over the threat to burn the koran. The MSM widely stated that it was analogous to Hitler’s book burning frenzy. And who pointed out the fallacy in that argument? Nobody as far as I am aware, and it is indicative of how the “lessons of history” are being badly taught.

It is important to remember that The Nazis did NOT actually burn the Koran.

And do you know why?

One of the reasons is that Hitler’s war against The Jews actually had the support of substantial numbers in the Muslim world.

http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_mandate_grand_mufti.php

“In 1940, al-Husseini requested the Axis powers to acknowledge the Arab right:
… to settle the question of Jewish elements in Palestine and other Arab countries in accordance with the national and racial interests of the Arabs and along the lines similar to those used to solve the Jewish question in Germany and Italy.

While in Baghdad, Syria al-Husseini aided the pro-Nazi revolt of 1941. He then spent the rest of World War II as Hitler’s special guest in Berlin, advocating the extermination of Jews in radio broadcasts back to the Middle East and recruiting Balkan Muslims for infamous SS “mountain divisions” that tried to wipe out Jewish communities throughout the region.”

Can I do the same as Traeh, but with the Bible? Please dare me.
-------
No, it would be pointless. There are no Christian Jihadists reigning terror attacks all over the world that we have to expose by way of their texts.

And don't even start in with some crap like "Western Imperialism" or "post-Colonialism" or "soldiers in Muslim countries" or anything like that.

Those are the standard Muslim "victim" excuses that were already old and overplayed even 25 years ago.

http://hurryupharry.org/2010/09/13/it-cannot-happen-here-in-america/

Reza V writes:

"Something of interest for anyone who wishes to know more about the British Muslim establishment’s views on killing those who leave Islam.

Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra is the Chair of the Interfaith Relations Committee of the Muslim Council of Britain.

A couple of years ago I wrote him this letter. Unsurprisingly, he didn’t respond.

Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra
Chair, Mosque and Community Affairs Committee
Muslim Council of Britain

Dear Sheikh Ibrahim Mogra

Dispatches: Unholy War

I listen to your comments regarding the killing and punishment of ex-Muslims with interest on Monday evening.

I noted that when you to disagreed with the killing or punishment of converts you seemed to choose your words carefully. You spoke of “British Muslims” living in “Britain” obeying “British Law”.

My understanding of the Islamic principle of Dar al-Amn, is that Muslims living in non-Muslim countries (in which they are tolerated and allowed to practice their faith) must abide by a covenant to obey the laws of that country and not to make war against it.

1. Therefore were the words “British” and “Britain” used as caveats?
In 2004 Prince Charles urged the Muslim leaders in Britain to criticise openly the traditional Islamic law on apostasy and call for it to be abolished throughout the world.

2. Are you willing to criticise openly the killing and punishment of apostates in Britain and throughout the world?

3. What is the position of the MCB on the killing and punishment of apostates in Britain and throughout the world?

4. How many Imams affiliated to the MCB have openly criticised the killing and punishment of apostates in Britain and throughout the world?

5. How would the MCB deal with an Imam who supported the killing or punishment of apostates either in Britain or elsewhere in the world?

Thank you for taking time to consider these questions.

Yours sincerely
Reza V*****
London

Well, it would not be of much use to do the same with the bible, Zinedine,

Instead, we should suggest to Muslims to interpret and practice their Holy texts more like the Christians do: Symbolic, inspired but not dictated by God, which results in the vast majority of Christians being OK with and subservient to the secular Democratic system.

Any way, Muslims are not really in competition with Christians primarily anymore. Instead they are the most in competion with "democracy-loyalists" of all sorts.

You paint this quadrangle, like Faisal Rauf does, of Radical Muslims, Moderate Muslims, Moderate Western Democratic Citizens, Radical Western Democratic Citizens.

Almost as if you are of the good cops moderate Muslim, in opposition to the bad cops radical Muslims.

But you still may well have the same ultimate theocratic anti-democratic goal as the radical Muslims, only with a different strategy.

When infidels grant Muslims equal rights in their countries, including the right of their citizens to become Muslim, and Muslims in their countries unjustly favor Islam over other religions or convictions, including a death-penalty for apostasy, you as a moderate Muslim still profit from radical Muslims. Faithwise, your faith profits and our faiths suffer, or are hindered, blocked, often with huge propaganda and censorship.

That makes you an untrustworthy and worthless ally of any Western Democratic citizen. Regardless if these citizens realise it or not.

No, if you can stay a Muslim and ally yourself firmly with the Democracyloyalists, worldwide, then your words would have sincerity, and weight. After all, why not? All it takes to be a Muslim is follow the 5 pillars of Islam. That MAY give you room to fully adhere to the essentials of Democracy and separate yourself irrevocably from all Theocratic or just confused or ignorant or simple-minded Muslims.

Or if you can't submit to and ally yourself openly with all essential Democratic essences: Your words would have sincerity and carry weight, if you would tell those you consider moderate Democratic citizens openly, honestly that you are in effect a "Theocrat" and anti-Democratic. And that you take responsibility for that choice.

Now, your words are only hypocritical, pretending Muslims, radical or moderate, do not pose any threat or animosity towards our cherished political system.

http://hurryupharry.org/2010/09/13/it-cannot-happen-here-in-america/

RezaV writes (14 September 2010, 2:12 pm):

Islam is not a hierarchical religion. It has no equivalent to a Pope, Arch Bishop or Chief Rabbi to tell Muslims what Islam ‘is’.
So yes, you can’t assume to know with certainty what a particular Muslim believes. Islam is whatever an individual Muslim believes it is.
However, the overwhelming majority of religious Muslims (and by “Muslims” I’m referring to religious, observant and devout Muslims rather than so-called ‘cultural’ Muslims like Yasmin Alibhai-Brown) have several beliefs in common....

First of all, Muslims believe that the Koran is the absolute, verbatim word of ‘god’. Secondly, they believe that Mohammad was a ‘perfect’ example of human kind.
And therein lies the problem.
The Koran is riddled with intolerance, incitement to violence and supremacy. Mohammad, whilst being a great leader for his time, was hardly a good ‘example’ of human perfection. He lied, broke treaties, killed, had killed and his sex life appears very suspect to say the least.
So however ‘nice’ a Muslim might appear, it is vitally important to establish exactly what they believe.


And today, whenever anyone in the public eye is suspected of harbouring racist views then they’re challenged. Quite rightly.
“Mr Griffin, do you believe that the Holocaust was a lie? Do you believe that a Black man can’t be British?”

All I ask for is a similar vigour and focus in addressing Muslim bigotry. So-called Muslim leaders must be challenged publically:
“Mr Ramadan, what exactly do you mean when you say that there should a “moratorium” on limb amputation and killing homosexuals?”
See what I mean?

And when we see a Muslim man dressed in pyjamas and flip-flops or a woman in a niqab, we should ask ourselves: “Could the fact that they’re exhibiting a very extreme interpretation of Islam with regard to the way they dress also mean that they may equally support the extreme views within Islam with regard to Jews, homosexuals, women and apostates?”
When you see a white guy sporting a skinhead, cross of St George T-shirt and DMs, you wonder whether he is a racist who dreams of a white-only Utopia. Surely it’s a fair question to ask yourself?

Similarly, when I see a beardy man in jim-jams or a female ninja I wonder: “Is this person a fascist who dreams of a Sharia Utopia where gays and apostates are killed and Jews and Christians are second class citizen?”
And like the skinhead the answer is “not necessarily”. But also “quite possibly”.

To summarise. All I ask is that we’re confident enough to ask questions. And that we research the subject well enough to ask the right questions rather than being misled by weasel words.

My previous post giving the text of a letter I sent to the MCB is a good example of what I mean.
Becoming an ex-Muslim didn’t happen overnight for me. I wasn’t influenced by ‘Islamophobia’. I met so many so-called experts and asked so many questions.
Sadly, virtually every Imam, Mullah or so-called expert I’ve ever met has demonstrated to me, that when push comes to shove, Islam is fundamentally a hateful and intolerant belief system.
If you know of a prominent expert who could demonstrate the contrary then I’d be very keen to communicate with them."

http://hurryupharry.org/2010/09/13/it-cannot-happen-here-in-america/

RezaV writes (14 September 2010, 4:15 pm):

"It’s almost impossible to argue that atrocities such as 7/7 in London can be justified by Islam. These were British Muslims, living in Britain (where they are allowed to practice their faith and allowed to live in peace) killing British people. Islam is pretty specific in these circumstances and as far as I can see, this atrocity was against Islam.

It is very difficult (although clearly not impossible) to find technical justification within Islam for 9/11.

It is however, relatively easy to justify within Islamic law, the situation where British Muslims leave Britain to fight against and kill British soldiers in Iraq and Afghanistan or Israeli soldiers in Israel.

The complexities of the situation have made the definitions of ‘moderate’ Muslim and ‘extremist’ Muslim so muddy that they are all but meaningless in any practical way.
And ultimately, this frustrates attempts at rational discussion. When I claim that there are a frighteningly high number of ‘extremist’, Muslims living among us, I’m not speaking of the fanatics who strap bombs to themselves or behead journalists or their supporters.
I’m speaking of the Muslims who dream that one day, the world will be governed under sharia law. Those that believe that in an ideal world, homosexuals and apostates will be killed. Limbs will be amputated. That ‘inshallah’, one day Jews and Christians will live in an Islamic world as dhimmis and pay jizya.
THESE are the real extremists and my point is that there are far, far more of them out there than anyone is willing to acknowledge. And no one confronts them.

People will say “Well as long as they’re not actively killing homosexuals, what harm is there in having those beliefs?”
And I’ll remind them of what Nick Griffin said on Question Time when he described the KKK leader he once met as “totally peaceful”. Oh how everyone laughed!
Quite rightly too. So much more pity then that we don’t laugh at the many prominent Muslims and Community leaders that make statements that are technically, just as ridiculous.
Why are THEY never challenged or exposed by the BBC?

If history has taught us nothing else, it’s taught us that for real evil to happen, enough people must have evil thoughts. I’m not suggesting that having evil thoughts should be a crime. However, I am suggesting that those views should be acknowledged, exposed and confronted. Confidently and without self-censorship for fear of offending cultural or religious ‘sensitivities’.
We don’t worry about ‘sensitivity’ when we’re confronting the racist ideologies of Griffin and co. Similarly, we have to stop thinking that the frankly despicable views that exist among a frighteningly high number of British Muslims somehow deserves to be addressed ‘sensitively’.
Because, as we can see, it means that the issue doesn’t get addressed at all."

The MOST dangerous WMD's are hate and ignorance, they are wounding humanity severely all around the world and they are increasingly prevalent in America. This jihadwatch.org website is a complete farce. You know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about Islam. YOU need to get a real education, contact your local university professors about your profound lack of knowledge. YOU are a very dangerous pro-zionist, anti-muslim bigot spreading the most ridiculous and harmful MISinformation I've ever encountered anywhere on the internet other than a few websites created by muslim haters who make the websites look like they are Islamic.

FYI - Muslims around the world and across the US have emphatically condemned ALL forms of terrorism! WAKE UP! The Quran strictly FORBIDS killing innocent people and it is the worst sin a muslim can do. The Quran also strictly FORBIDS forcing ANY religion on ANYONE. OBVIOUSLY, you have not read the Quran! What YOU have done is take a few quotes OUT of context and claimed them as truth, which is WRONG, ask ANY Islamic scholar! ANYONE can take quotes out of the holy books and make the religion appear wicked.

Some QUOTES FROM THE BIBLE, IT'S FULL OF ORDERS TO MURDER!

Death by Stoning to Followers of Other Religions.
1) If your own full brother, or your son or daughter, or your beloved wife, or you intimate friend, entices you secretly to serve other gods, whom you and your fathers have not known, gods of any other nations, near at hand or far away, from one end of the earth to the other: do not yield to him or listen to him, nor look with pity upon him, to spare or shield him, but kill him. Your hand shall be the first raised to slay him; the rest of the people shall join in with you. You shall stone him to death, because he sought to lead you astray from the Lord, your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, that place of slavery. And all Israel, hearing of this, shall fear and never do such evil as this in your midst. (Deuteronomy 13:7-12 NAB)

2) Suppose a man or woman among you, in one of your towns that the LORD your God is giving you, has done evil in the sight of the LORD your God and has violated the covenant by serving other gods or by worshiping the sun, the moon, or any of the forces of heaven, which I have strictly forbidden. When you hear about it, investigate the matter thoroughly. If it is true that this detestable thing has been done in Israel, then that man or woman must be taken to the gates of the town and stoned to death. (Deuteronomy 17:2-5 NLT)

Rape and Baby Killing
Anyone who is captured will be run through with a sword. Their little children will be dashed to death right before their eyes. Their homes will be sacked and their wives raped by the attacking hordes. For I will stir up the Medes against Babylon, and no amount of silver or gold will buy them off. The attacking armies will shoot down the young people with arrows. They will have no mercy on helpless babies and will show no compassion for the children. (Isaiah 13:15-18 NLT)

Death to Followers of Other Religions
Whoever sacrifices to any god, except the Lord alone, shall be doomed. (Exodus 22:19 NAB)

Kill Nonbelievers
They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.

Kill People Who Don't Listen to Priests
Anyone arrogant enough to reject the verdict of the judge or of the priest who represents the LORD your God must be put to death. Such evil must be purged from Israel. (Deuteronomy 17:12 NLT)

Death for Cursing Parents
1) If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness. (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
2) All who curse their father or mother must be put to death. They are guilty of a capital offense. (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)

Death for Adultery
If a man commits adultery with another man's wife, both the man and the woman must be put to death. (Leviticus 20:10 NLT)

Death for Fornication
A priest's daughter who loses her honor by committing fornication and thereby dishonors her father also, shall be burned to death. (Leviticus 21:9 NAB)

Kill Sons of Sinners
Make ready to slaughter his sons for the guilt of their fathers; Lest they rise and posses the earth, and fill the breadth of the world with tyrants. (Isaiah 14:21 NAB)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All you jewhadi bigots need to look up a bit of history. Start with Ben Gurion and his proclaimed hatred and murderous intentions to wipe out Arab people:

From the Book: A concise history of the Middle East - By Arthur Goldschmidt, Lawrence Davidson. two Ben Gurion quotes from page 309:

Dedication to the Zionist cause also produced a clear-minded but amoral aspect to Ben-Gurion's character and behavior. On the one hand he once admitted: "If I were an Arab leader, I would never make terms with Israel...we came here and stole their country". On the other, he prescribed the following: “We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.”

David Ben-Gurion was in many ways the father of his country. He was a politician, administrator, and commander. He achieved what he and the Zionist movement most wanted, a Jewish state in Palestine. The Western world has glorified this accomplishment and vilified the Palestinians who resisted it.


Then look at what ZIONISTS believe:

obligation of zionists >> a non-Jew may be killed even if he is not an enemy of the Jews.

“In any situation in which a non-Jew’s presence endangers Jewish lives, the non-Jew may be killed even if he is a righteous Gentile and not at all guilty for the situation that has been created,” - Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira.

"Also, anyone who weakens our own state by word or similar action is considered a pursuer…Hindrances—babies are found many times in this situation. They block the way to rescue by their presence and do so completely by force. Nevertheless, they may be killed because their presence aids murder. There is justification for killing babies if it is clear that they will grow up to harm us, and in such a situation they may be harmed deliberately, and not only during combat with adults.” - Rabbi Yitzhak Shapira.

coteret.com/2009/11/09/settler-rabbi-publishes-the-complete-guide-to-killing-non-jews/

Last, but not least, ISRAEL created and funded Hamas' rise to power and subsequent success - read the open source intel reports. Everyone knows this! Here's a couple links to get you warmed up to doing more in depth research about this:

web.archive.org/web/20021112131048/http://www.upi.com/print.cfm?StoryID=18062002-051845-8272r

youtube.com/watch?v=bPwNk0CJSiY


STOP LYING TO THE WORLD, YOU ARE HARMING INNOCENT PEOPLE!!!

Ellison again using the Jefferson kooran in another lame attempt at legitimizing a stench of inanimate perusals from the mind of a deranged psychopath. Seems he's just one of a small handful of illiterate mahounds who can't read..English.

You are funny! I've now had my good laugh for the night so I can go to bed now.

(You're a riot!)

A couple links..cufflinks?..G'night El..

"Muslims around the world and across the US have emphatically condemned ALL forms of terrorism! "

You are full of it....
Islamic jihadists, invoke Islamic texts and teachings both to justify their actions and make recruits among peaceful Muslims. What’s more, while Islamic authorities worldwide have condemned “terrorism,” they have generally done so in wordings so full of loopholes as to amount to no condemnation at all. For example, the Fiqh Council of North America, an assembly of top Islamic scholars, condemned attacks on “innocent civilians.”
That sounds great until you realize that it is common in Islamic theology to condemn all non-Muslims as guilty for their rejection of the Koran and Muhammad. Islamic clerics have said openly that no non-Muslim is innocent. So a condemnation of the killing of “innocent civilians” does nothing to deter jihadists from killing non-Muslims.

"The Quran strictly FORBIDS killing innocent people and it is the worst sin a muslim can do."

Realy?
Someone did not get your memo buddy!

Bukhari (52:220) – Allah’s Apostle Muhammed said… ‘I have been made victorious with terror’

Of consequence, Osama bin Laden's full name is Osama bin MOHAMMED bin Awad bin Laden.

These men are also named after the 'holy prophet' of Islam:

1) MOHAMMED Atta, 9/11 airline jihadist
2) Abdulhakim Mujahid MUHAMMED, Little Rock recruiting center assasin
3) MOHAMMED Reza Taheri-azar, UNC SUV jihadist
4) MOHAMMED Ajmal Amir Kasab, Mumbai jihadist
5) Husayn MUHAMMED al-Umari, Pan Am Flight 830 bomber
6) Fahd MOHAMMED Ahmed al-Quso, USS Cole bomber
7) Khalid Sheikh MOHAMMED, beheader of Daniel Pearl
8) MOHAMMED Sidique Khan, London Tube suicide jihadist
9) Ramzi MOHAMMED, convicted London Tube jihadist
10) Whabi MOHAMMED, London Tube ‘5th’ bomber
11) Fazul Abdullah MOHAMMED, Tanzanian embassy bomber
12) MAHMOUD Ahmadinejad, despotic Shia leader of Islamic Republic of Iran
13) MOHAMMED Bouyeri, savage Islamist killer of Theo Van Gogh
14) MOHAMMED Ali Hamadei, airline hijacker
15) MOHAMMED Safady, Munich Olympics terrorist
16) AHMAD Marrouf al-Assadi, Achille Lauro hijacker
17) MEHMET Ali Agca, Islamist who attempted to assasinate Pope John Paul
18) MOHAMMED Atif Siddique, Scottish terrorist conspiritor
19) Kafeel AHMED, Glasgow Airport bomber
20) Abdulla AHMED, ‘Liquid’ bomber
21) John Allen MUHAMMED, mass murdering sniper
23) MOHAMMED Haydar Zammar, al-Qaeda recruiter who assembled the Hamburg cell
24) Jaish-e-MOHAMMED, Pakistani jihadist terror organization

As for Jews, Christians, Buddhists etc...
You wouldn’t be able to find rabbis, priests or vicars preaching hatred towards other religions and suggesting that non-believers and gays should be stoned to death.
You won’t be able to find videos of beheadings carried out by Jews or Christians either.

Yes, you could find similar “philosophy” in the writings from the ancient Jewish and Christian texts, but that’s all. Jews and Christians have moved on. Islam is submission to the immutable word of Allah as given to Mohamed. No discussion and no change to that word is allowed.
Everyday reality shows that we’re not just talking about a “philosophy” but a practice in real life as far as the Quran is concerned.

Go and peddle your snake oil and the teachings of the "Dark Lord" somewhere else.

This jihadwatch.org website is a complete farce. You know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about Islam. YOU need to get a real education, contact your local university professors about your profound lack of knowledge.

STOP LYING TO THE WORLD, YOU ARE HARMING INNOCENT PEOPLE!!!


Cheap talk Doctor (?)...There are at least a dozen people that post here who are Islamic coherent, who would love to debate you on the merits(?) of your statements...

Why don't you explain just exactly where JW has it wrong...
Why consult a university professor? You are the Doctor, so explain your diagnosis...

Ellison...He must be one special guy for the MAS/MB to pay his way to hajj...How many other financially embarrassed Mahoundians get their way payed to Mecca by the heartfelt generosity of the MAS/MB? Not many I bet...Why? Because they are not a US Congressmen in a position to help further the causes of Allah by legislation...Ellison has been bought and paid for...

"You know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about Islam."
Muslims around the world and across the US have emphatically condemned ALL forms of terrorism!

I know ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about Islam?
Lets pretend.....
What about the Ruhollah Khomeini? He is an Imam, an ascetic spiritual leader whose teachings are unquestioned by millions of muslims and he is considered a champion of Islamic revival by Shia scholars.
Yusuf al-Qaradawi OK? He is the winner of eight international prizes for his scholarly contributions and is considered one of the most influential Islamic scholars living today
What about Syed Abul A'ala Maududi? He is a Sunni Pakistani journalist, theologian, Muslim revivalist leader and political philosopher, and a major 20th century Islamist thinker
Bassam Tibi alright? HE is a political scientist and Professor of International Relations.

This is what they say about islam and violence....

Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini.
Those who know nothing about Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those people are witless. Islam says: 'Kill all the unbelievers just as they would kill you all!' Does this mean that Muslims should sit back until they are devoured by the infidel? Islam says: 'Kill them, put them to the sword and scatter them.' Islam says: 'Whatever good there is exists thanks to the sword.' The sword is the key to Paradise, which can be opened only for the Holy Warriors! Does all this mean that Islam is a religion that prevents men from waging war?
I spit upon those foolish souls who make such a claim.

Yusuf al-Qaradawi.
The Muslims conquered Constantinople, where Eastern Christianity is situated, and in the future, a mighty king will arise for the Muslims; through him, Islam will spread and Rome will be conquered. We will control the land of the Vatican; we will control Rome and introduce Islam in it. Yes, the Christians, who carve crosses on the breasts of the Muslims in Kosovo - and before then in Bosnia, and before then in many places in the world - will yet pay us the Jiziya, in humiliation, or they will convert to Islam…"

Syed Abul A'ala Maududi.
It must now be obvious that the objective of the Islamic jihad is to eliminate the rule of an un-Islamic system, and establish in its place an Islamic system of state rule. Islam does not intend to confine his rule to a single state or a hand full of countries. The aim of Islam is to bring about a universal revolution. Although in the initial stages, it is incumbent upon members of the party of Islam to carry out a revolution in the state system of the countries to which they belong; their ultimate objective is none other than world revolution.
Human relations are so integrated that no state can have complete freedom of action under its principles unless the same principles are not in force in a neighbouring country. Therefore, a, ‘Muslim Party’ will not be content with the establishment of Islam in just one area alone –both for its own safety and for general reform. It should try and expand in all directions. On one hand it will spread its ideology; on the other it will invite people of all nations to accept its creed, for salvation lies only therein. If this Islamic state has power and resources it will fight and destroy non-Islamic governments and establish Islamic states in their place.

Muslim scholar Bassam Tibi explains:
At its core, Islam is a religious mission to all humanity. Muslims are religiously obliged to disseminate the Islamic faith throughout the world. ”We have sent you forth to all mankind” (Q. 34:28). If non-Muslims submit to conversion or subjugation, this call (dawa) can be pursued peacefully. If they do not, Muslims are obliged to wage war against them. In Islam, peace requires that non-Muslims submit to the call of Islam, either by converting or by accepting the status of a religious minority (dhimmi) and paying the imposed poll tax, jizya. World peace, the final stage of the dawa, is reached only with the conversion or submission of all mankind to Islam. Muslims believe that expansion through war is not aggression but a fulfillment of the Quranic command to spread Islam as a way to peace. The resort to force to disseminate Islam is not war (harb), a word that is used only to describe the use of force by non-Muslims. Islamic wars are not hurub (the plural of harb) but rather futuhat, acts of “opening” the world to Islam and expressing Islamic jihad. Relations between dar al-Islam, the home of peace, and dar al-harb, the world of unbelievers, nevertheless take place in a state of war, according to the Quran and to the authoritative commentaries of Islamic jurists. Unbelievers who stand in the way, creating obstacles for the dawa, are blamed for this state of war, for the dawa can be pursued peacefully if others submit to it. In other words, those who resist Islam cause wars and are responsible for them. Only when Muslim power is weak is temporary truce (hudna) allowed (Islamic jurists differ on the definition of temporary).

Now who is the ignorant muslim bigot spreading the most ridiculous and harmful MISinformation?

Good one Andy..Glad I didn't miss that one..I still owe ya..

Doctor, huh. Would you be one of those peace lovin' doctors who rammed their jeep into a Scottish airport a few years back?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1556553/45-Muslim-doctors-planned-US-terror-raids.html

Or perhaps you are Dr. Osama Ahmed Ibrahim, the guy who didn't treat Joe Applebaum when he complained of a stomach disorder back in December 2003, was left alone for twelve hours and who died the next day because he was a Jew.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1835433/posts

Or maybe you are Dr. Sami Al-Arian, sitting in your prison cell, typing away on your prison issue computer and proselytizing to an unsuspecting public.

So do tell us, which doctor are you?

STOP LYING TO JIHAD WATCHERS, WE ARE ON TO YOU!!!

Thanks Patrick.
And...
You don't own me anything, we're on the same side.
Freedom and truth.

Mornin' Is..Have a great day! Weekend..Month! Year! Life!..Another quackin' quack..That needs a smack..or two..

l read this somewhere that Ellison's wife remains a Christian and this must bother him. he has tried for her to convert but it seems she does not see islam in the same light! LOL

Good morning, Patrick. ; ) 'What you wanna bet this guy isn't a doctor at all but sells dog-on-a-log on some street corner in a third world. Or maybe he is a college student that knows everything. He has that big ego/little grasp of the subject matter thing going on, definitely.

Islam seems to have a lot of Doctors, but usually they don't say Doctor of what...I bet this guy is no Doctor at all, and just gives himself that self congratulatory title to lend credibility to his nonsense...It doesn't work out to well for him does it...

Naw, it doesn't. Why do I get the creepy feeling that this guy is sitting in a basement in North Carolina in his Ninja Turtle underpants, eating a bowl of Cheerios and teaching a class on how to build bombs on the internet?

Tell you what... Mahoundians often refer to creationist-looney, anti-semite and mahoundian supremacist Adnan Oktar/Harun Yahya as "Dr. Oktar/Yahya"... Even though that idiot is an interior-design school dropout.

But, just as hard facts ain't needed to back mahoundian claims (i.e. conspiracy theories) up, they can claim that this or that black-cube-worshipping "intellectual" is a doctor, PhD and you name it without ever having to show any diplomas or certifications from any universities to prove it.

I get similar images about Zenedine and Islamic Empire...

Ah yes, Dr. Ya Ya. That has an impressive ring to it.

I don't know about Z and I.E. sitting around in their underpants, though. They both sound like they have massive anger management problems, along with inferiority complexes masquerading as superiority complexes. Zinedine regularly acts as if he's gotten up on the wrong side of the bed, daily, but Islamic Empire has that smug demeanor of a man who posts on Jihad Watch in between beating his wives. The fact that one of them didn't make his tea hot enough and one of the others didn't bring him his slippers fast enough when he got home from a hard day at the gas station is reason enough for him to beat them to a pulp. But it's not a very impressive feat when you weight 250 lbs and your wives weigh around 100 1bs and can't defend themselves because of Sura 4:34. But lucky us...we're all treated to their problems with displacement. Oh goody.

Just as some ayrab returning home from "work" (if one can call lazing about in an empty office for 2 hours work) beat up and then divorced its (not his) wife because she stuffed his ramadan pie with cheese instead of beef.

You know, I could make up all kinds of jokes about this but really, this story is just ridiculous. Does the stupid bastard even understand what marriage is all about? But it's not that surprising really. We have replaced the concept of being charitable with the demand for "tolerance". Since said Ayrab bastard owns his wife as a piece of goods and probably doesn't (and never did) love her, how easy to throw her way for a meal malfunction.

Tolerance. What a bullshit concept. As opposed to charity which basically means to love another person as you love yourself and acting charitably would be being kind and considerate of another person's feelings and helping them in time of need tolerance means putting up with somebody. And when you replace charity with tolerance you have a one way ticket on an piece of oiled was paper down a slippery slope.

Check you later. Gotta run!

http://blazingcatfur.blogspot.com/2010/09/east-lansing-michigan-bad-place-to.html

quran burner fesses up... Identity still unknown...

A $10,000 bounty for your head might be a motivator...

Those were great responses to doctor, Andy!

Doctor and Muslims like him should consider that they are really the ones that are, well, ignorant about and misunderstanding much of Islam. As they really only cherrypick from their most important guiding texts what they like and add something they like.

Then interpret that in one of the many ways that is possible with these very vaque, ambiguous, self-contradicting, incomplete most important guiding texts. Whom they are not allowed to change one iota.

What are the holy texts of Islam? Quran and Hadith. Who are most authoritative explainers of Islam? All those Andy mentioned, and the 4 most important "schools" of Islam, and then some, who are all known. Furthermore all sorts of Islamic leaders who make declarations about Islam in the modern period.

All have been studied and reported about extensively on Jihad Watch, Atlas Shrugs, Islam Watch, Faith Freedom International and many other websites.

In debate Muslims and Islam-defenders are most often the losers, because they are always trying to defend the indefensible; their faulty, yet unchangeable most important guiding texts and the interpretation and practice of them by their most important leaders and millions of Muslims.

And their ultimate intention is not to resolve the controverse of Islam with the Democratic citizens but to shut them up. They are always bent on ending debates, loving censorship, with their warning about hating, hurting innocent people.

It is the Jihad Watchers and people like that who are the ones that are really wishing to resolve the controverse Islam-Democratic society non-violently with debates.

Which they are fully prepared to do. In a very well informed way, in contrast to Muslims and Islam-defenders, who want to shut this important controversy-debate down and have far less relevant information.

Muslims like doctor also rely on tu quoque as diversion like quoting from Bible-texts or old Zionist speeches. But their opponents are not primarily Christians and Jews, they are freedom- and Democracy-loving people of many faiths/ persuasions. And the Christians and Jews in vast majority are already on their side.

There are no words to adequately express my detestation of Ellison.

He is an enemy of our country.

Oh Keith - Jefferson owned a Koran to "Know the enemy." It wasn't in his library because he "admired Islam."

I have a little paperback Koran, as many of the people who post on this site do, and guess what? It's to "Know the enemy!" Yep, you guessed it!

muslims overlook sun tsu

"Muslims overlook Sun Tzu"

"It is said that if you know your enemies and know yourself, you will not be imperiled in a hundred battles; if you do not know your enemies but do know yourself, you will win one and lose one; if you do not know your enemies nor yourself, you will be imperiled in every single battle." - Sun Tzu

Yes. Also Cicero said, "Know your enemy better than you know yourself."

I know who the enemies' are in this country - those who don't assimilate, but seek to dominate. Gee, I wonder what group of people that is?

"Islam must dominate and not be dominated." - Muhammed

Care to take a guess?

I have just discovered your website and am pleased to note that there are Americans who know what Islam really stands for. I am an indigenous Briton living in Britain. During the recent turmoil over burning the Koran and the Cordoba Centre all we heard was your politicians and other notables, including the media, condemning Pastor Jones with not a single voice condemning the Muslim proposal.

This attitude is not confined to America - it is exactly the same in Britain. Politicians are all falling over backwards to appease Islamic militancy and bury their heads in the sand hoping it will go away. The only places where, in America and Britain, that people can express their views openly is on websites such as yours and Comments pages in newspapers such as our Daily Express.

A Member of Parliament is attempting to bring in a Bill to ban the burka. The Immigration Minister has declared that he will not allow the Bill to be passed despite a YouGov which found that there was a 67% vote in favour of the ban. That result was not just about the burka - it reflected the total dissatisfaction we have with Muslims.

Two American men were trying to preach Christianity in a Muslim neighbourhood when they were moved on by a Muslim policeman. The last time this happened was in 1670 when William Penn and a colleague, who were preaching in a street in London, were arrested and brought to trial. The jury found them not guilty.. .

A Muslim leader recently praised Britain for allowing some Sharia courts to be set up. The government's attitude is that they do no harm as they are regarded as arbitrators and not law courts. Tell that to Muslim women who would be afraid to ignore a Sharia court if one were available - the result of this is that Sharia law does exist in this country.

I hope you feel inclined to publish this message as I would like at least some Americans to know that we suffer too.

Daniel Bratchell.

Kepha replied to comment from No Canadian Dhimmi

How do these rumors start?
This is gross information. Bite your tongue.

Ontario does NOT have Sharia courts?

Violence in the Bible vs Violence in the Qur'an...hmmm, let's see....


http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/03/bible-and-quran-equally-violent.html

Nice start on the beard Keith, just a temporary style change or is it somehow symbolic of your blossoming jihad against those good people opposed to Islamization? Style change I imagine.

"Well, it would not be of much use to do the same with the bible, Zinedine,

Instead, we should suggest to Muslims to interpret and practice their Holy texts more like the Christians do: Symbolic, inspired but not dictated by God, which results in the vast majority of Christians being OK with and subservient to the secular Democratic system."

Demsci, I agree with you. Many Muslims already do and have a similar relationship to the Koran as many Christians have with the Bible. But it would be great if all Muslims had the same relationship with the Koran.

What Muslim countries need is a secular awakening (nahda) that will keep religion fully within the private sphere, something akin to what you have in Turkey or Tunisia, or many countries in the West, including the U.S. So don't take what you have for granted. It is a precious thing, and make sure those evangelical tea-baggers don't take it away from you.

Isabella, quite an imagination you have! but if I were you I would suggest you don't do any fat jokes. I mean you are American after all. You are known worldwide for being morbidly obese. It has become the most common stereotype of the American during the beginning of this century, which seems will see the Chinese rise and dominate the world because the Americans got fat and lazy. The Muslims will not put an end to the American empire. It will be all the constitution-holding fatties. So instead of burning Korans, go out there and start burning calories. LOL.

The fattest people in the ME are the Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank. It could be due to all the free food and money flowing into those areas from the West, while the Palis do not do anywork and just eat and get fat while their leaders and clerics terrorize.

IN CORE ISLAMIC TEXTS, WE LEARN THAT MUHAMMAD ALLOWED HIS MEN TO RAPE THEIR CAPTIVE WOMEN:

From Sahih Muslim, one of the canonical hadith collections:
Book 008, Number 3371:

Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger [Muhammad] (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.

Notice that Muhammad did not say, "do not rape your captive women." He merely says it does not matter if his soldiers withdraw before ejaculation, because souls destined by Allah to be born will be born regardless.

From Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:
Volume 5, Book 59, Number 459:

Narrated Ibn Muhairiz:
I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Said Al-Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah's Apostle for the Ghazwa [battle at which Muhammad was present] of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus, we said, 'How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] who is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said, 'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist."

Again notice that, in answer to his soldiers' queries Muhammad doesn't say "You must not force your captives to have intercourse with you." He says only that coitus interruptus, withdrawing prior to ejaculation, is pointless, because souls predestined to exist will exist regardless.

Again in Sahih Bukhari:
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection."

Thus Muhammad does not forbid his men to rape their captives, but merely says that it's better not to do coitus interruptus. His men should keep going till coitus is complete.

In the Qur'an "Allah" says at least 25 times that Muhammad is to be obeyed. That is one reason why the vast majority of Muslim scholars accept the Bukhari hadiths and a few other hadith collections as authoritative for Muslims: canonical hadiths show what Muhammad did and said, permitted and forbade.

_____________________________________________________

HUMAN RIGHTS AND ISLAM

Check out these pie charts from the international human rights organization Freedom House. Scroll down to the regional pie charts. The pie chart for the Middle East/North Africa -- which happens to be the core Islamic region -- shows the most unfree area in the world. However, one country included in the Middle East/North Africa pie chart is listed as "free." Can you guess which one that is? (Hint: It's not Islamic.)

Please, inform us ignorant kaffir to what race Muslims and Islam belong. Inquiring minds want to know.

Traeh--you're right on cue. There's another famous "American" M.D.:

Doctor, Doctor, paging Dr. Hassan, BANG BANG BANG.

Daniel Brachtell: The media everywhere is a bunch of liars. They've been mum on the thousands present at GZ on 9/11.

Wait until Nov.3. Hopefully a significant amount of the propagandists, dhimmis, and corrupt politicians will decide to end it all out of despair. Their power in waning. It will be over for them.

Zinedine, please tell me which party among the tea-partiers wants to ban my constitutionally-mandated right to pleasure myself?

Tell me, does it ever get lonely in that strange parallel universe of "alternative reality" you call home?

DANIEL BOORSTIN: "THERE IS A VAST DIFFERENCE...BETWEEN THE HEBREW-CHRISTIAN GOD THE MAKER AND THE MUSLIM GOD OF FIAT."

"For a believing Muslim, to create is a rash and dangerous act."

In a very short chapter of Boorstin's The Creators: A History of Heroes of the Imagination (a book that with his The Discoverers and The Seekers forms a magisterial and deservedly famous trilogy), Boorstin sought the heart of the difference between Islamic and Judeo-Christian culture. Here are some choice excerpts:

…the Muslim God, though a kind of Creator, had a character quite different from the God of the Hebrews and the Christians...[I]n the Koran the role of the Creator is transformed. The familiar words of Genesis record that God spent six days on the Creation.
[Genesis 2:2] 'And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day...'
In the Koran God never rests, for he can never be tired.
'[Koran, Chapter 50, verse] 38: We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days. Nor did any sense of weariness touch Us.'
It is no wonder that the Koranic God was not wearied. For He created not by making but by ordering, not by work but by command. The creation of anything occurs when He decrees it into being.
'[Koran, Chapter 2, verse] 117: To Him is due the primal origin of the heavens and the earth; when He decreeth a matter, He saith to it: "Be," and it is.'
Again and again the Koran describes God's fiat...

There are some similar expressions in Genesis of God creating by fiat...But there is a vast difference in emphasis between the acts of Creation in the Bible and in the Koran. And between the character of the Hebrew-Christian God the Maker, and the Muslim God of Fiat...

The Muslim Creator-God is notable not only, nor even mainly, for His work in the Beginning, but as an orderer, a commander, of life and death in our present. The Judeo-Christian God is awesome for the uniqueness of His work in the Beginning. Then He may intervene by divine providence...

After...the six days of fiat, the God of the Koran, having no reason to rest, simply mounted the throne of authority. From there he continued to rule by decree over life and death and every earthly act.

The relation of the Muslim God to his creature man, then, is quite unbiblical. The uniqueness of the biblical Creator-God was in his powers of making; the uniqueness of man and woman too would be in their power to imitate their God and after their fashion to exercise the power of creation. After God created the species in the Beginning, he blessed them to be fruitful and multiply...

Why did God create man? The God of the Bible would judge man by his fulfillment of his godlike image. Not so in Islam.

'[Koran, Chapter 51, verse] 56: I have only created jinns and men, that they may serve Me. I created the jinn and humankind only that they might worship me.'
...The People of the Koran prefer to call themselves Muslims, from 'Islam,' the Arabic word for submission or obedience. The Koran repeatedly reminds us that Allah's creatures are also his 'servants' or 'slaves'. What clearer warning against reaching for the new? For a believing Muslim, to create is a rash and dangerous act.
(my bolding; Boorstin, 1992, pp.63-69.)

Interesting fantasies, "Doctor." Unfortunately for you, what you quote as "reality" is not.

The problem with your "truths" is that they are lies.

Peddle your garbage on the Islamo-fascist and Neo-nazi offal piles where they belong.

Lemme guess, Traeh. Would that one free nation, that one pearl among the trash heap of oppressive regional regimes, be perhaps the "Zionist entity"? I thought so. LOL

YusefK, so sorry to burst your little Quranic Islamo-fascist "reality" bubble, motek, but drug abuse is a much more prevalent problem in the Islamic nations of the Middle East and Western and Central Asia than it is in ANY Western nation:

http://www.rawa.org/temp/runews/2008/04/20/afghan-drugs-and-regional-addiction-rates.html

Alcoholism is a problem for about 10% (not "MOST") Americans.

Don't you just love Google!

Muslims ALSO seem to have a problem with alcohol abuse:

http://agonist.org/story/2005/1/16/1950/98595

There are MANY more links to information about alcohol problems current in the world's Muslim communities.

I am sympathetic to people trapped in seemingly hopeless situations, wherein there individualities and moral and ethical consciousness are crushed and trampled by group-thought and oppressive religious control by totalitarian ideologies. Under such circumstances, it is no wonder that many human beings buckle and seek release in the temporary "redemption" of mind-altering chemicals.

Were I trapped within the confines of an oppressive Muslim society, I would probably seek relief as any other victim would.

Don't ya just love it? Islam- alcohol = haram and marrying and having sex with children = HALAL

I don't own a television, dear. I get my information about Islam from the Quran, the tafsir, online Muslim sites, and my five sets of ahadith collections as well as the other books in my personal library.

My freedom to masturbate is not threatened by anyone from the Tea Party.

My right to my physical existence, however, is loudly threatened by a cacaphonous international sea of your Islamo-nazi buddies.

Therein lies the rub, so to speak.

Thanks again, traeh, for good stuff. Boorstin was a great historian and he knew that America would never have come about if the Islamic world had been in charge. It took, among other things, the Judeo-Christian ethic which emphasized the dignity and worth of each indiviudal to be put into full gear by earlier generations of Americans over the course of centuries to make America what it is today. Now, Muslims, who could have never created something like the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, have parasitically planted themselves here and actually continue to think that their religion for slaves is superior to Christianity and Judaism. Standard Muslim delusion and supremacist nonsense. Also nonsensical are Obama's statements to the effect that Muslims have contributed to the growth of America from its very beginnings. What rot from a guy I'm convinced doesn't know much history.

Zinedine:
"Demsci, I agree with you. Many Muslims already do and have a similar relationship to the Koran as many Christians have with the Bible. But it would be great if all Muslims had the same relationship with the Koran.

What Muslim countries need is a secular awakening (nahda) that will keep religion fully within the private sphere"


Zinedine, I am flabbergasted but very pleasantly surprised with your response. And I hope you mean the above with all your heart.

What I want to say to you is that if you are honestly for a differend governing and legal system than the secular democratic one, then openly say it.

But then your criticism on Democratic parties, like the Tea Party sounds insincere, highly biased, prejudiced to people like me. Because what you want is then definitely much worse for us than what the Tea Party, or the Dutch Freedom Party, wants. Because they definitely want to play by the Democratic rules, in my opinion.

But if you are yourself a committed Democratic person, well, "inside Democracy" then criticism, indeed self-criticism of cultures, is highly encouraged and taken often very seriously.

Hoping you evolve into that rare kind; the fully Democratic Muslim, openly and clearly hostile to all those Muslims who are "(mis)understanding" and still practising their most important guiding texts in a theocratic way. Or plain ignorant and confused way.

And may you also become dedicated to a non-violent, highly informed, logical, fair, loooooong debate. To resolve the undeniably currently existing huge controversy between Muslims and Democracy-upholders. Until the world becomes a better place and other controverses will rage.

As opposed to any violent or censorship-like-resolution-attempts of this by now undeniable controversy as we see all the time among Muslims and Islam-defenders.

Well keep on rubbing before the tea partiers become a majority in Congress and declare masturbation haram.

Over 16,000 documented Islamic terrorist attacks worldwide just since 9/11. How many Jewish or Christian terrorist attacks have there been since then? When Presbyterians start blowing themselves up in restaurants, Jews start sawing off heads, Catholics begin taking hostages, Methodists produce scores of fanatics who chant death to Saudi Arabia and Lutherans threaten death for anyone who suggests that Jesus wasn't divine, get back to me and I'll reconsider things.

Something else, the Koran is a paradigm for action for all time. The Bible is not. That's why, for instance, you can't find a single Ultra-Orthodox rabbi who wants to stone an adultress, but you can find millions upon millions of Muslims who still think that such a punishment for adultery should occur. Wise up. And know too that many posters here at JW know a great deal about Islam and that is PRECISELY why they are sickened by the entire religion.

For starters, many here know that Mohammed when in his fifties had sexual intercourse with a nine-year old girl. This alone is enough to disqualify him from any kind of holy status, never mind all the people he ordered killed and his boast that he had been made victorious through terror. The sickness of Islam begins with its sick founder and there's no running away from this. BTW, do you believe that a Muslim who converts to another religion should be killed, as Mohammed himself instructed? Done here.

Demsci, I really believe in secularism and I believe that state and religion should be separated. Nothing I wrote during the past five days or so since I've been posting contradicts this belief of mine. At the same time, I don't believe the Koran needs to be banned or changed. It should be treated the same way the Bible is treated in the US for example where people call themselves Christians, go to Church but they do not seriously follow Leviticus or all of the Commandments. If the 10th was established, capitalism would be dead.

I also think, and I am absolutely serious, that Americans need to be careful about what they wish for when voting for people like Sarah Palin or Huckabee. I see these people as theocrats in the same lens I see the radical Muslims. They are obviously no Ben Ladens and no Zawahiris, but they are not far off from people like Al-Qardawi. So whereas I believe that Muslims around the world should emulate European and American secularism (without being anti-religious), I also think that Americans should preserve what they have.

Some people will say that the tea-partiers pose no danger, but if you are not cautious, you will end up being an anti-Enlightenment country without even realizing it. I read somewhere that some people in the US want Bible-based creationism to be taught in public schools. That, for example, should be fought. And if they succeed and it looks like they are making inroads in states like Texas and Louisiana, you will soon have children who are anti-science and believe the world is only 6000 years old.

FYI - Muslims around the world and across the US have emphatically condemned ALL forms of terrorism! WAKE UP! The Quran strictly FORBIDS killing innocent people and it is the worst sin a muslim can do.

Who is "innocent" according to a Muslim? The answer is... only Muslims.

Muhammad said "I am made victorious with terror." He said it. We just report that he said it (and that's what pisses you off.)

And yeah, we like Jews here. They aren't flying planes into buildings and beheading people on the internet. Only your fellow co-religionists can claim that honor.

Muhammad was a child raping serial killer. How does it feel to worship a piece of shit like him?

Notice the mohammedan is spending his valuable time in here setting us Kuffar straight, when that time would be better used trying to convince his fellow members of the region of peace© not to take their qur’an literally. But, he’s clever enough to know by doing that he would be putting his life in jeopardy. LOL

Excellent name list, Andy. I wonder what overall percentage of Muslim males carry some variant of the name Muhammad in their names. I seem to recall reading that the name is now one of the most popular, perhaps even the most popular, names given to new baby boys in France (can someone confirm this? It doesn't sound right, but is alarming if true.).

The Guardian and Huffpoo...No wonder your mind is warped...

Conservative Islam (the latrine which extends from Morocco east to Pakistan) exhibits the same behavioural patterns as those of a chronic alcoholic.
An Alkie goes on a huge bender and wakes up with three day's shit in his pants.
Islam goes on a six hundred year social/cultural/intellectual stagnation bender and wakes up with Wahhabism, Salafism, Jihadism and the Iranian ayatollahs as their excremental end product.
Renounce the evil brews in any non-moslem culture and the brewery/distillery owners have no religious/cultural sanction for retaliation.
Renounce islam and the penalty is death.

And to think that many Americans still consider that MUHAMMAD Ali is the greatest athlete of all time. What a Dhimmi country! You should have locked him up in prison a long time ago. But then again, if I remember correctly, you already did.

FROM ONE OF THE CORE ISLAMIC TEXTS, A HADITH IN WHICH MUHAMMAD SAID THERE IS TO BE NO PUNISHMENT FOR MURDERING SOMEONE WHO INSULTS MUHAMMAD:

Here, from Sunan Abu-Dawud, a hadith collection considered canonical by mainstream Muslim scholars, is a hadith that shows Muhammad supporting the murder of a woman by her husband, merely because she used to speak to her husband insultingly about Muhammad:

Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 38, Number 4348:

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

A blind man had a slave-mother [a slave who bore children for him] who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He [the blindman] forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he [the blindman] took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

There are other examples in the core Islamic texts of Muhammad having those who insult Islam killed.

Zinedine said "What Muslim countries need is a secular awakening (nahda) that will keep religion fully within the private sphere, something akin to what you have in Turkey or Tunisia, or many countries in the West, including the U.S. So don't take what you have for granted. It is a precious thing, and make sure those evangelical tea-baggers don't take it away from you."

I think most of us agree on JW that Muslim countries do need a Secular awakening. However, what is rising in Islam right now is Islamic Supremacy. Jihadists have the power through sheer brute force and terror to enforce their will. If they make one so afraid to speak out for fear of their lives, then why would one take the risk?

Theo Van Gogh (killed by islamic jihadist)
Geert Wilders
Pamela Geller
Robert Spencer
Wafa Sultan
Ayaan Hirsi Ali
Pastor Terry Jones (called for Koran burning and not everyone on this website has agreed with his actions)

I could go on and on...but needless to say all have spoken out against violence in Islam. All have spoken out on their personal issues or issues regarding their country's problems with Islam. Rather than accept criticism or debate it, the Muslim response has been Fatwa's calling for their deaths.

I'm not holding my breath for a Muslim Reformation of Islam. It simply won't happen. The reason is because self-criticism of the Quran is not allowed. To do so is Apostasy which is punishable by death.

Zinedine: I don't need to see anything else. Before I even discovered Jihad Watch, etc, I knew about islam. All I have to see is the History of India,and what's going on with Kashmir today, and West Bengal, to know how islam works.


Today, all I have to see is Scandanavia all the way to Turkey, to see the disorder, viciousness and psychopathic behavior of islamics. I don't have to see anything else to understand islam, VERY well.

Rauf, Ellison and the demon cohorts are NOT necessary.

Traeh,

Seeing that you are a fan of the hadiths, and you've shown a breadth of scholarship worthy of the most erudite of the Azhar Mosque scholars, I would like to get your opinion of a Muslim scholar I admire, Gamal al-Banna, who is the brother of Hassan al-Banna (the founder of the Muslim brotherhood) and the great uncle of Tariq Ramadan (a Muslim scholar who was refused entry to the US under the Bush administration). He rejects all the hadiths that are considered weak and also many of those that are considered strong and as you say canonical: mainly 635 hadiths of Bukhari. Do you think we can still call him a Muslim, and if not, why and on what would you base his takfir?

Here is some information:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamal_Al-Banna

Some people in here like Duh Swami think Wikipedia is a liberal rag and not trustworthy, but I trust that you are smarter than that. You can also google his name and see what else there is about him.

You may also want to check this book:

http://books.google.com/books?id=0VJ_t0F7ZGEC&pg=PA205&dq=gamal+al-banna&hl=en&ei=_QSVTKC8C4Kclgevibn1BQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=gamal%20al-banna&f=false

Mackie: " No it wasn't even Latinos"

Wow! Thanks for droppingg a good word. :)

A Latina

B, see my comment to Traeh.

'''Some people in here like Duh Swami think Wikipedia is a liberal rag and not trustworthy'''

Lying again...I didn't say Wickidpedia, was a liberal rag...You said that...I said it can't be trusted because anyone can edit it to lie or lean in any direction they choose...If you just want a recipe for roast pig, Wikid is accurate...If you want the truth/facts on any controversial person or subject, Wickid cannot be trusted...

The "doctor" has a PhD in bullshit ...

I just LOVE the turd that he lowered to stink up the place:

"Last, but not least, ISRAEL created and funded Hamas' rise to power and subsequent success - read the open source intel reports. Everyone knows this!"

LOL!!! Oh yeah, the Jews are behind their own trouble and demise - uh huh, suuuure they are. Hey can you believe this guy? Someone needs to commit the good "doctor" to an insane asylum, and STAT. Better yet, do the world a favor and commit yourself, doctor bull.

taqiyya is alive and well ...

Lying loser!

One specific suggestion that might help: when you post your posts at other sites that may be more PC MC-oriented, don't use CAPS. It might be causing an initial subliminal reflex in their editors.

No Canadian Dhimmi,

Yes indeed.

Readers of Jihad Watch who are not familiar with the commenter "Zinedine" would do well to peruse the recent thread in which he demonstrated his penchant for various obfuscatory tactics we have seen so many times from other Muslims -- tactics and evasions so frequently deployed, so consistently, by so many Muslims, they have the effect of eroding our previously held hope that somewhere we could come across a Muslim who dialogues in good faith about the problem of Islam.

And before the thread I linked above, there have been quite a few others in the last couple of months in which "Zinedine" has been tap-dancing away, most notably this one.

"For starters, many here know that Mohammed when in his fifties had sexual intercourse with a nine-year old girl. This alone is enough to disqualify him from any kind of holy status, never mind all the people he ordered killed and his boast that he had been made victorious through terror."

Exactly.

Warlord Mo is a polygamist and a pedophile - and those things ain't "holy."

Incredible how brainwashed the Barbarians' are about their evil self-proclaimed "prophet," Mo. Who never prophesied nuthin'.

A shower curtain or dust bin are more prophetic than Mo.

Right, Hesp, he is your typical muslim troll from hell. He never gives a commenter a truthful or straightforward answer, only more of the same ole, same ole. And imagine having to work with such a person - or worse yet, being married to someone so friggin' right (who is clearly so WRONG). My gaaaawd ...

His useful idiotness will run its course, it always does.

I don't think it's completely separate from elections either. Certainly certain people like Rick Lazio will try to exploit the upsurge in anti-Islamic ideas to their political advantage.

Lazio, Tancredo, Myrick and the one or two other Congressmen who've dared to criticize Moslem disloyalty and misbehavior have done so infrequently, with great reluctance, and to their distinct political disadvantage given the lapdog media, delusional academics and confused permanent gubmint bureaucrats, nearly all of whom are adamantly pro-Moslem.

But I don't think it's rooted in the election cycle. I think it's rooted in the idea that there are urges in society from time to time based on a multitude of factors that make some people want to scapegoat others.

How ya doing on the Sudan genocide crisis, Keith?

*** Bukhari Vol 1 Bk 1 Nbr 6 ***

Mohammed said, "Just issue orders to kill every Jew in the country."

Well well well, Congressman Keith Ellison D-Minn, it turns out you harbor murderous antisemitic thoughts, if you accept Islam and the Holy Prophet Mohammed, that is, and you claim you do. And that's a hate crime. Take your Ko-Ran and go back to Detroit where ya came from, creep.

And, Keith? You should know that the Ko-Ran you checked out of the Library of Congress to be sworn in on was bought by Thomas Jefferson to understand what makes Moslems such rotten thieving people. He read it, found out why, sent the Marines in, and two centuries later rolled over in his grave when you were sworn in on the thing from the floor on the Capitol.

*** Bukhari Vol 5 Bk 59 Nbr 512 ***

Mohammed offered the Fajr Prayer near Khaybar when it was still dark and then said, "Allahu-Akbar! Khaybar is destroyed, for whenever we approach a hostile nation to fight, then evil will be the morning for those who have been warned." Then the inhabitants of Khaybar came out running on the roads. Mohammed had their warriors killed, their offspring and woman taken as captives.

Explain that, you disingenuous would be scapegoat you. And what of the kidnapped pre-adolescent Khaybar girls? Were they forced into having pedophilic sex with Mohammed's buddies the Companions, who no doubt were inspired to emulate his diddling of lil' Aisha, no?

Zenedine reminds me of Abdullah Mikail...Glib, hard headed and off the wall..

I piss on Ellison. What a loser.

I love your aggression. Reminds me of Darcy. I used to love reading her aggressive, in-your-face posts. My friends and I overseas used to get a real good dose of motivation reading her stuff.

If you lead that furious ass-kicking session, I will follow.

"FYI - Muslims around the world and across the US have emphatically condemned ALL forms of terrorism!"
Ha ha ha ha ha ha!
You know and we all know nothing a moslem does is considered terrorism.
Bukhari:V4B52N220 "Allah's Apostle said, 'I have been made victorious with terror.'"
Qur'an:8:12 "I shall terrorize the infidels. So wound their bodies and incapacitate them because they oppose Allah and His Apostle."
Ishaq:588 "When the Apostle descends on your land none of your people will be left when he leaves."
Bukhari:V9B87N127 "The Prophet said, 'I have been given the keys of eloquent speech and given victory with terror.'"
Qur'an:33:26 "Allah made the Jews leave their homes by terrorizing them so that you killed some and made many captive. And He made you inherit their lands, their homes, and their wealth. He gave you a country you had not traversed before."
Qur'an:2:216 "Jihad is ordained for you (Muslims), though you dislike it. But it is possible that you dislike a thing which is good for you, and like a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knows, and you know not." [Another translation reads:] "Warfare is ordained for you."
Muslim:C40B20N4676 "Jihad Is Compulsory."

Honey, I'm not aggressive. I'm just busy running a business and trying to get to heaven and I don't have time for this force-me-to-convert and treat-me-like-dog-doo-cuz-I'm-a-woman nonsense. I like to do what works, and Islam doesn't. And it boils my blood that whining, insecure neanderthals who beat on their chests (as well as their wives,) but crumple like a post-it note if their daughter wants to marry somebody she wants to marry, think they are going to take over my country and tell me what to do. No thanks.

As to the ass-kicking, well it seems to me that Zinedine and Islamic Empire and Roland are on the receiving end of those everyday here. But if you are talking about the physical one, I'm not much at hitting men with my fists but my pistol is a great equalizer. I could turn one of these pansy jihadists from a rooster to a hen in one shot, except then we would have to listen to them whine about how mean American women are. But if they ever come near me, my kids, my neighbors, my friends or my family I'll put an earplug in one ear, my finger in the other and shoot one handed.

Remember, we ain't played Cowboys and Muslims...yit!

Zinedine said: "And to think that many Americans still consider that MUHAMMAD Ali is the greatest athlete of all time. What a Dhimmi country! You should have locked him up in prison a long time ago. But then again, if I remember correctly, you already did."

You remember incorrectly. Ali was convicted of a felony, but the verdict was immediately appealed, and eventually overturned. Ali never served time in prison.

Thanks, Andy, I do so enjoy a good takedown.

I've just added your comments to my "Quotes of Note" file.

A couple of things.

"Dhimminot" , you are correct, Ontario does NOT have sharia courts but it almost squeaked through before anyone in the rest of the country actually knew what was going on there.It was stopped at the last minute. There are some powerfully deluded dhimmis in the HRC's in Canada. And the Human Rights Commissions almost brag that "the truth is no defense".

As for the troll "Zinnedine". "It" may be correct about Mohammed Ali (Cassius Clay). I am currently reading several books, one of which is Oriana Fallaci's "Force of Reason" (which I can't recommend enough) in which she interviews Ali. Here's a quote:

..."If i lived in Alabama instead of Florida, I would vote for those who don't mix whites with blacks. Not for guys like Sammy Davis who marry Swedish blonde girls. Dogs must stay with dogs, lice must stay with lice, whites must stay with whites."

I could never understand the attraction most people had for such an arrogant "Individual" and after reading this appalling quote it reinforces my disgust for him.

Anyone surprised?

Pray for this sister. She is living in a lion's den.

As for Ellison himself, he betrayed the faith of Wilberforce and the entire Western abolition movement from Samuel Sewall on down to embrace a faith that gave up kidnapping and selling slaves only when facing the gatling guns of perfidious Albion (BTW, I am not British).

""Last, but not least, ISRAEL created and funded Hamas' rise to power and subsequent success - read the open source intel reports. Everyone knows this!"

Yeah.

Da Jooozzz brought it on themselves. America 'created bin Laden'. The Banu Qurayza chose themselves that the Muslim captors should behead them.

The Muslims 'choose' their religion. (Those who don't choose Islam must be killed)

Muslim women 'choose' the hideous shrouds, in which they wrap themselves. But if they don't 'chose', they are killed over it or get the crap beaten out of them.

There is no end to this stupidity. There is no end until we make it end.

The global jihad is trying to set the stage for any resistance to Sharia law being dealt with as if it is hate crime against Muslims. It is seeking to make objections to and resistance to Sharia law, Islam, and jihad a crime under U.S. law.

Under Sharia law jihad must be defensive (i.e., in defense of Islam, Muslims, Muslim "honor," etc., etc., etc.,). That is why even perceived slights are used to RATIONALIZE jihad crimes of abuse, plunder, rape, and murder. Of course, under a caliphate, the whole world is declared conquered for Islam and jihad is then offensive (in more ways than one) because it is seen as subjugation of those conquered and simply in the worldwide enforcement of Sharia law. That is the goal of the global jihad.

The global jihad also sees democracy as the Muslim majority voting in Sharia law. If our U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights was not the supreme rule of law and if they did not guarantee equality under the law and freedom of the individual, global jihadists might have a chance to conquer. As it is, we have the legal means to tear down the Sharia-friendly socialism being built up by President Obama and his cohorts. The protests of the Ground Zero mega-mosque shows that there is enough clear-sightedness and will of the people to resist jihad and reject Islamic conquest. That is why there is such gnashing of teeth over it.

Zinedine, your usage of the pejorative "tea-bagger" means you are beyond civil discourse. Buh-bye.

doctor:

Have you ever heard of the USA Constitution, which includes the 1st Amendment, which ALLOWS for both free speech and press?

http://www.jihadwatch.org/ is free to express its views just as much as you are.

doctor:

Just to gently correct you, there is a BIG DIFFERENCE between the Bible and Koran.

What you have found in the Bible, what you have from the Bible, NOT ANY of those laws you have found are ENFORCED AT ALL, PERIOD. What are found in the Koran, is STILL IN FORCE TO THIS VERY DAY.

Plus, would this SURPRISE YOU, on the day of September 11th, 2001, there was even celibration in the west bank area by Palestinians celibrating right after the 9/11 attacks. Here are two examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrM0dAFsZ8k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV_eN4YEEI0

No condemnation at all from those Muslims over on the West Bank, rather celibrating both distruction and death. Any questions?

"bford, I am afraid you're about to eat ass for breakfast since it's about to be served to you in a platter."
---
Sorry, I don't eat ass for breakfast although you might be tempted to eat the ass of the jihadist in front of your during morning prayers...
---
"I think America (or at least the American right) is about to become what it hates the most. The tea-baggers want to vote for people who will end separation of church and state"

Wrong, although your muslim terrorist friends want to do that.

http://www.secularnewsdaily.com/2010/05/08/palin-founders-meant-to-base-law-on-bible-and-ten-commandments/

Where does Palin say she "will end separation of church and state" or intends to? She doesn't. C'mon, you can do better than that can't you?
---
"who will ban religious freedom on insensitivity grounds"

Wrong, although your muslim terrorist friends want to do that and have been doing it for centuries.

http://www.hapblog.com/2010/08/republican-leader-john-boehner-rep.html

Where do Boehner, King or Gingrich say they intend to "ban religious freedom on insensitivity grounds"? They don't.
---
"who will ban masturbation and are repressed vis-a-vis sexuality"

Wrong, although your muslim terrorist friends love to masturbate and are definitely sexually repressed. Pakistan is the world leader in searches for pornography... you know, a 98% muslim country."

http://www.chicagotribune.com/health/chi-100917christine-odonnell-sex-comments,0,161402.story

Where does O'Donnell say she "will ban masturbation"? She doesn't. How do you know she's repressed? You don't.
---
"who are unashamed of the death penalty"

Wrong, although your muslim terrorist friends love the death penalty. Don't you?

http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/teresa-lewis-virginia-woman-borderline-mental-retardation-executed/story?id=11587387

Lewis pleaded guilty to double murder of her husband and stepson. Just because she's dumb as a box of rocks doesn't mean she's not guilty, but in any case she's not dead yet.!
---
"who want to increase freedom to carry guns"

Yes, I agree on that. When law abiding citizens are allowed to carry guns crime is reduced, and numerous studies confirm exactly that. In fact, the main reason I'm armed and dangerous is because of muslims like you.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/05/05/AR2010050505211.html

Don't you also support the NRA so jihadists like yourself can be free to carry guns?
---
"who phantasize about a past time when "everything was better"."

Wrong again. Things have never been better although the world at large would be much better had mohammad never been possessed by a demon. BTW, learn to spell... this isn't the 7th century anymore. Since you are muslim you think islam and the "prophet" mohammad (piss be upon him) are the best thing ever you should like the past when "everything was better".

Radical Muslim : Caliphate = Tea-bagger : Slave-master confederacy

http://chattahbox.com/us/2010/09/15/look-away-dixie-land-s-c-republicans-mingle-with-slaves/

Gullah storyteller and singers - hired actors who willingly performed for money. This is America and they are free to do that if they so desire - nobody forced them!
---
"Face it, you are no different than radical Muslims, and thank God that liberals in your country are still fighting for the secularism that you want to do away with. Man, you are so confused."
---
I am far different from you and other radical muslims and, sorry, I'm not confused at all and neither are you… you know very well what your intent is - do dissemble, lie and confuse as part of your blog-jihad. So what have I learned? I know that:
- Your muslim terrorist friends want to end separation of church and state.
- Your muslim terrorist friends want to ban religious freedom and have been doing it for centuries.
- Your muslim terrorist friends love to masturbate and are definitely sexually repressed.
- Your muslim terrorist friends love the death penalty.
- You muslim terrorist friends fantasize about a past time when everything was better (like the Caliphate).

But I already knew all of that… what did you learn? Nothing, it appears.

Keith Ellison is a nut job probably elected from an uninformed liberal enclave similar to what we have here in Madtown on an anti Bush agenda. I do not understand how any African American can adopt Islam when it was Arabic Muslim slave traders who sold his African ancestors into slavery. Black folks are often looked upon as inferior in Islam Today!

"Keep doing your thing Keith.

Don't let the jealous, anti-muslim racists bring you down."

Wow...just how stupid are you? Did you read what Keith had to say? He touted the fact that many muslims are White and of all races.

Then you, in your infinite wisdom and enlightenment call those that oppose the spread of islam and its accompanying sharia law, "racists".
islam is not a race you moron. islam is a form of slavery.

islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.

Maybe you defenders of islam/slavery can defend this...

According to the Ayatollah Khomeini...or as I like to call him, the Ayatoilet Sosmelly...in his Little Green Book of islamic Jurisprudence, "Sex can be had with children as young as an infant..." This in response to a question regarding the fact that the practice of "thighing" had become so common at celebrations and such.
The OK is also given to sex with animals, as long as you kill them afterward and sell the meat in another village, not your own. 'Splain that one to me...if you can.
The Ayatoilet also describes, quite graphically, how far one man can insert his member in to another man before it becomes a homosexual act. In the Western world, any contact of that kind would be considered homosexual...not in islam apparently. It sure makes for some interesting reading if nothing else.
I also understand that your perfect man had sex with a corpse. How would you explain this? Was it due to his incredible sexual appetite? Equal to 40 men..right? Strange thing to be braggin' about when it comes to a prophet.
He also really enjoyed having men lick his chest. I read also that he enjoyed sucking on the tongues of young boys...and girls. These are not the acts of a holy man.

Maybe you think they are. Well? Need confirmation? There are some excellent videos on Youtube by Father Botros who does nothing more than read from your "holy writings". Don't like the facts? Do your holy writings offend you? Then burn them.

islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.

I see this Ellison islamic fool is not avirce to playing a little of the race baiting. He make it out as if the reason why we are againt islam is because majority are brown people. Well how does this explain the war against the black muslims by their arab muslim brothers in sudan? or why many indians are against islam and muslims? in fact the majority of the victims of islam have bene the brown and black people. The majority of people who are against islam are also brown folks. what does this petty race baiter think about that?

It would appear that this latest troll will require multiple defeats before it admits that it has no argument to make.
Venomous and hate filled, it will spew for a while and eventually find some other way to annoy adults and forward the cause of slavery in a free world.
I have nothing but pity for this misguided child. Eventually Truth will make itself known despite the likes of this defender of slavery.

islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.

Zinedine here you go again as if secularism is the holy grail. What do you mean by secularism? Who do you think should be the RIGHT person to run for office? You say watch out for who you want for President. This is America, anyone has the right to run for whatever office as long as they pass Constitutional muster which I am not sure Obama did. What is your secularism based on? No moral structure unless it agrees with your criteria? No religious affiliation? No attachment to the Constitution? What exactly do you mean when you say separation between church and state? Are you saying a person ought not have an affiliation with any religion or moral opinion? You seem to think that we need to find people who live in a void separate from humanity unstained by moral character or religious affiliation. Well let me see, what if Martin Luther King decided to run for office would he have been a danger? President Kennedy happened to be Roman Catholic did that injure his ability to try to weight the protections of the Constitution against Catholicism? What really are you trying to say?

AlaskanInfidel,

Note that I am simply replying to Zinedine's blusters - you can find the original entries above. Just to clarify I do not support slavery (but Islam does), and only reply to Zinedine's venom in kind because maybe that's what he understands.

The argument I have to make is simply that Islamists have no place in America, of which Zinedine is one.

Oh absolutely. Forgive me for not being clear. I was also referring to the crap spewing from Zinedines's keyboard. I'm not familiar with this particular islamic apologist so I referred to it as the latest troll...certainly not you!
My apologies if I was misunderstood. I'll blame me for that.
I fully approve of and practice attacking islam on every front in every way possible regardless of the level of venom spewed at me. I like to go straight for the jugular right off the bat...as you can see above.
When some apologist successfully explains to me how it's OK that mo had sex with a corpse or enjoyed sucking on the tongues of young boys and girls...and all the rest of his perverted acts I'll shut my trap. In the meantime the mopeople worship a perverted scumbag that should have been snuffed at birth.

islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.

Zinedine - what an idiot?...misguided intelligence...? She/he could/should take lessons from Traeh....or perhaps Winston Churchill, Thomas Jefferson, and others, who,decades, even centuries ago, realized the inherent danger of Islamists. If THEY come to power, Zinedine will suffer, less from prohibition on masturbation, than from anything else Islamists will offer.

"I like to go straight for the jugular right off the bat..."

Well, it definitely saves time. : )

Thanks AlaskanInfidel,

I should have read your other posts for context and I'm sorry - completely my fault.

I fully agree with you and your methods because it really matters so much for our families, our children and our future to stand up and defeat islam. Ellison is a harbinger of congressmen to come if we don't stay vigilant. Sharia encroachment could eventually ruin the last truly free nation on earth and like an insidious cancer has already made many inroads without us knowing. Given the recent suggestion by justice Breyer that burning the koran might not be protected free speech (even though hundreds of bibles were torched in Afghanistan to avoid hurting the "sensibilities" of muslims), I fear that we're entering a more advanced Orwellian stage where the exact opposite of the truth is put forward by the government and media as the correct path to follow. I will never follow that path (I know you won't either).

No muslim is 'bright and open-minded'. All muslims are hypocrites, liars, and devoid of intellectual curiosity. Keith Ellison was not 'bright and open-minded' as a non-muslim and his conversion to islam confirmed his obtuseness. He is a typical, mendacious muslim playing the aggrieved victim and since muslims are wicked sociopaths without hearts, souls, or consciences, he plays his role quite well. A 'bright and open-minded liberal'?! Hah!

All this site does is post articles found in newspapers and other media venues throughout the world. What's wrong with that? Is it our fault that muslims are committing heinous atrocities in the name of islam every day in almost every nation on earth? We understand islam qute well and we have all read the filthy qur'an and as horrible as it is, it's mild compared to the hadiths. Islam is an abomination, which we have long known and millions of others are finally learning. How long did you think you could hide islam's nefarious ambitions and its hideous doctrine from the unsuspecting Western world? Well the game's up---deal with it, and tell your lies to somebody who will believe them.

When muslims refer to 'innocent' people, they are referring to other muslims. Muslims consider non-muslims 'the vilest of creatures', filth. We're fair game for your murdering cohorts and we know it. We've been through the specious equivalency arguments dozens of times. Christians do not engage in terrorism for Jesus as muslims do for allah and Christianity does not incite murder and mayhem. Nothing in the New Testament sanctions mass murder and genocide for God. Get lost.

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