We're forced to accept it without question, on pain of charges of "Islamophobia": Islam is just like Christianity and Judaism in its ability to fit without difficulty into the Western societal framework of non-establishment of religion.
However, Sharia is an all-encompassing program for every aspect of life, including the governance of the state. In "Separation Of Church And State" at Islaam.com, Dr. Ja`far Sheikh Idris argues that the separation of religion and state is un-Islamic. And so once again, in the same words as I did before, I offer the invitation to Muslim "moderates": show where Dr. Ja`far Sheikh Idris is wrong on Islamic grounds. The world wants to see you refute the version of Islam of the "extremists." The "extremists," after all, aren't getting their ideas from me, but from the likes of Dr. Ja`far Sheikh Idris. So instead of spending all your time trying to prove me wrong, why not spend some time trying to prove them wrong -- if, that is, you really oppose what they're doing? Go ahead. We're watching, and waiting.
From "Separation Of Church And State" by Dr. Ja`far Sheikh Idris at Islaam.com (thanks to Axel):
[...] So how are Muslims to approach the modern trend of separation of religion and state? The basic belief in Islam is that the Qur'an is one hundred percent the word of Allah, and the Sunna was also as a result of the guidance of Allah to the Prophet sallallahu allayhe wasalam. Islam cannot be separated from the state because it guides us through every detail of running the state and our lives. Muslims have no choice but to reject secularism for it excludes the law of Allah.Supporters of the secular state argue that the values of one religion cannot be imposed on members of different religions that are present in our countries. However, whether the non-Muslims in a state are few or many, secularism is not the answer. The non-Muslims in Muslim states will either be secularists themselves, in favour of abandoning the laws of Islam in the state, or will be devoted followers of their own religion, who wish that the state follow the rules of that religion. So in either case, a compromise cannot be made in accordance with the Islamic point of view. What needs to be pointed out is that under the law of Islam, other religions are not prohibited. At the same time, people are provided with doctrines for legislation and running of state that will protect people of all faiths living in the state.
Secularists in the West will agree with this, then they will point out that under Islamic law, people are not all equal. No non-Muslim, for example, could become the president. Well, in response to that fact, in turn, secularism is no different. No Muslim could become president in a secular regime, for in order to pledge loyalty to the constitution, a Muslim would have to abandon part of his belief and embrace the belief of secularism -- which is practically another religion. For Muslims, the word 'religion' does not only refer to a collection of beliefs and rituals, it refers to a way of life which includes all values, behaviours, and details of living.
Secularism cannot be a solution for countries with a Muslim majority or even a sizeable minority, for it requires people to replace their God-given beliefs with an entirely different set of man-made beliefs. Separation of religion and state is not an option for Muslims because is [sic] requires us to abandon Allah's decree for that of a man.
A married Amish man (Chester Mast) has been accused of sexually assaulting six girls, one his cousin, in a case that has plunged his insular community into crisis.
Are they sure he is Amish and not Muslim. LOL
This just in...
The Islamic prophet Mohammed has been accused of rapeing a nine year old, and then his conduct called perfect. All Moose-limbs are to follow in his pattern of conduct.
This is Mobamad reporting from Islamisbad, on STFU news.
So the Amish have a dirty little book (like Muslims) that tell them its okay to rape children?
What's it called? LOL?
'I offer the invitation to Muslim "moderates": show where Dr. Ja`far Sheikh Idris is wrong on Islamic grounds.
Hey.....islamic empire, why don't you accept Robert's invitation and show how idris is wrong instead of talking about an amish man which is off-topic?
But maybe you cannot because your religion is exactly like idris says it is, right? LOL
Dr. Ja`far Sheikh Idris is straight out of Aladdin. Maybe it would be wise to revisit some of the stories that we know. Aladdin was a thief. It was his cunning that secured his future to power. These are the traits that the MUSLIM's hold in high regard. The twisted morality that MO got from what he thought was Judaism and Christianity. This pervert was GREEN with envy of how the people obeyed their g-d. He WANTED to be that. His creation, Islam, perverts morality and comes full circle back to the HUMAN ANIMAL. Thats not so different than the liberals and the ANTI - G-D atheists. However, there is a sick twist. He takes Religions and brings them down, but doesn't distribute power evenly across to ALL people. NO, no! MO decides that power is harnessed only by men and men are entrusted with it ONLY. The MALE is the supreme being and the female is to be conquered. The masculine is the only relevant power and so there can't be any sharing of POWER. I don't care what they call it. A religion or an Ideology, but the LIBERALS will soon need to awaken, because most of the powers derived from them are the Feminine. This is why the ME is a dust ball still today. It takes two powers working in unison to give birth and replenish the EARTH. When the wind of the g-d's told Adam and Eve to go and replenish the earth, what was meant by that is that it takes the female AND the male to harness the power of creation to produce a THIRD. I'm talking about the male and female in all things and not just the BASIC concept of man and woman. The HINDU's understand this: YIN an YANG. Most formulated concepts understand this. Islam is a creation of a stunted man and the followers are brainwashed and stuck in a cave.
"Islam cannot be separated from the state because it guides us through every detail of running the state and our lives. Muslims have no choice but to reject secularism for it excludes the law of Allah."
So, then Mosques need to be considered a GOVERNMENT building. Not unlike Capital buildings or TOWN SQUARES with the LEGAL functions of a COURT.
Ban Sharia!
"The basic belief in Islam is that the Qur'an is one hundred percent the word of Allah...."
The word of Allah? Ha! Only after passing through a number of filters. The Koran that we have is the result of compiling and editing elderly men's memories of what Mohammed had said were revelations. Obviously their memories did not agree 100 per cent; not all were present for all of the revelations, and there were disagreements about the exact wording. So some of the less well-remembered sayings were left out, and others were edited to a generally agreed-upon version.
Then we have to rely on Mohammed's word that he had heard the words of Allah (via the angel) and was repeating them correctly. Yet there is also the tradition that on at least one occasion, Satan substituted himself for the angel and gave Mohammed a spurious revelation. And Mohammed never realized it until a later session when the real angel -- traditionally Gabriel -- told him. Which can only make one wonder if the same thing happened on other occasions, and Mohammed neglected, or forgot, to tell his followers.
There's also the whole business of the "abrogations": revelations which nullified earlier revelations. If the Koran contains Allah's rules of behavior for mankind, why did he order one pattern of behavior for several years, and then nullify it and order its exact opposite?
No, the Koran is clearly the work of Mohammed, as compiled and edited by a later genration of his followers.
This statement from the article:
"No Muslim could become president in a secular regime, for in order to pledge loyalty to the constitution, a Muslim would have to abandon part of his belief and embrace the belief of secularism -- which is practically another religion."
I believe that to be a flawed premise. "Thinking" and dangerous "thinking at that that does not take into account that a Muslim can lie (Taqiyya) to infidels, lie by omission (Kitman), scheme and plot (makara, which literally means deceit), and the false prophet Mo said "War is deceit" - Bukhari (52:269), whereby it is entirely permissible and a Muslim may be "compelled" to deceive others for a greater purpose.
Obama, who claims to be a Constitutional "scholar", but is anything but one and/or he is totally incompetent when it comes to Constitutional law has already found and has stated that our Constitution is "flawed" for it says what a government can't do but lacks "positive rights" as to what it can do. Then again he knows the Constitution, but lies as to it's actual intent, meaning, and/or construction.
Although I'm not discounting it for Obama may very much indeed be a "Manchurian" Mulsim, I'm not saying Obama is a Muslim, but I note Obama is no Christian. His heart is more sympathetic to Islam than to Christianity. Obama is no more a Christian than Satan is. There is no evidence and/or fruit to show that Obama has truly been "born again". Zip. Zilch. Nada. Joining a church, any church, does not make you a Christian. The "gospel" preached at "Rev." Wright's church where Obama attended as a member for 20 years is a false gospel and not the gospel of the Bible. A false gospel that would compel the Apostle Paul to say let them be eternally condemned if they preach another gospel than the one we bring to you. It is from this Rev. Wright and this false "gospel" that Obama claims his "Christian" identity having allegedly become a "Christian" under the mentorship of Wright.
"Separation of religion and state is not an option for Muslims because is [sic] requires us to abandon Allah's decree for that of a man."
Satan always wanted to be the lord of this world.
http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/satanic-islam-allah-moloch-demands.html
"Islam cannot be separated from the state because it guides us through every detail of running the state and our lives. Muslims have no choice but to reject secularism for it excludes the law of Allah." -- Dr. Ja'far Sheik Idris
Sheik Idris is merely pointing out how incompatible Islam is with western ideals of freedom, since in their belief system everyone must believe as they do, while in our secularism everyone has the right to choose what they believe. This right to the freedom to choose our belief is protected by our 'separation of religion and state', while in the Islamic system, a personal right to believe is forbidden because there is only one way to believe, in submission to Islam. It is not the "politicians" who wish to protect the right to choose our beliefs. Rather it is an underlying, fundamental principle of our religious freedoms, which in a democracy is guaranteed by our constitutional rights.
Stand back from it for a moment. Isn't this really at rock bottom of how our two worlds are different? We have the right to choose as we believe; they have only the right to obey in submission what to believe. This is a fundamental difference between freedom and slavery. If Islam wants to live in slavery, as Dr. Ja'far Idris argues, then they cannot live here in the land of the free. The two are grossly incompatible. Slavery is not an option, we fought wars over this. Islam advocates the absolute dictatorship of Sharia, either by overt or stealthy deceitful means. Will we have to fight this war again? Seditious Sharia must be outlawed, if we are to avoid this future war.
Then start your own Amish Watch website ...
And be sure to provide Amish texts that clearly direct followers to rape young girls and family members. Good luck finding any, though, along with gobs 'n gobs of DAILY headlines about evil deeds done by the Amish.
You see, Jihad Watch could post a lot more headlines each and every day about the evil things done by muslims, but hey, there are only so many hours in a day. So many evil deeds, but so little time. You must be soooo proud to call yourself a muslim. islam & company are truly evil, so what does that make you?
I agree; the analysis of Dr. Ja`far Sheikh Idris outlining the various incompatibilities between Secularism and Islam is very clear and well articulated. Although his arguments may appear to be reasonable and air tight within the limited framework of Islamic logic, in fact they are as full of holes as Swiss cheese when stripped of the the untenable and unsupportable foundations of Islam. This is great material that will be difficult for taqiyya artists and Lefist all-religions-are-equivalent apologists to counter.
Marriage within the family has severely degraded the muslim gene pool. That is why a muslim still sticks to the notion of a false allah. Open your eyes, see what is happening in porkistan (devastating floods, muslims killing muslims,...) and realize that there is no allah. Look at the islamic countries' stagnation. It is all because of islam and its retrograde beliefs.
"Then start your own Amish Watch website ..."
Now that would be "boring". I can see the news now:
Amish man walks into bank and makes a deposit.
Shery Jenkins caught with a blender in her home. Trial set for September 9th.
Mother-Daughter Quilt controversy. Daughter used store bought thread against mother's wishes.
In response to Mother-Daughter controversy, Sunday's sermon will be on "Honor Your Father and Your Mother".
Amish boy chokes his chicken. Now he does not have an animal for entry into the county fair.
Amish man in black vest shouts "GOD BE PRAISED" and kills no one. Three people did report getting hugged however.
"A married Amish man (Chester Mast) has been accused of sexually assaulting six girls, one his cousin, in a case that has plunged his insular community into crisis.
Are they sure he is Amish and not Muslim. LOL"
If the man was Muslim and the community Muslim, there would be no uproar for that is "business as usual", i.e. Islam calls that "normal".
If anything, they would make the man a tribal leader and he'd get speaking engagements in the mosque after he brought a preteen or two in for the Imam to add to his wives. Then they all would read from the Quran how the perv Mohammed and sicko false "god" Allah praised pedophilia.
From the article:
"No Muslim could become president in a secular regime, for in order to pledge loyalty to the constitution, a Muslim would have to abandon part of his belief and embrace the belief of secularism -- which is practically another religion. For Muslims, the word 'religion' does not only refer to a collection of beliefs and rituals, it refers to a way of life which includes all values, behaviours, and details of living."
About pledging loyalty to the constitution, is it only a president that has to pledge that???? I think we should evolve to a situation in which every citizen and certainly every immigrant will have to pledge that!!!
And thanks to information from Islam-critics we now can be more specific than that. We can envision that future governments declare that there are really 2 mutually exclusive forms of organising society; the secular democratic one and the Islamic theocratic one. As Sheikh Idris points out so honestly. And a citizen of a secular democratic country should quite simply uphold IT's laws over and above Islamic Theocratic laws.
It is my hope that pressing this point and forcing Muslims to choose at least nominally between the 2 legal systems would be at least a good starting point.
Perhaps in the process getting more now still ignorant, so-called fair, neutral and openminded secular democratic citizens on the side of the democracy-loyalists who are against Islamic theocracy-loyalists.
@greycoat
Thanks for giving me the first laugh of the day. . .that Amish sketch is a classic! Just what I needed as my heart is heavy due to family health issues. Would you happen to be the greycoat of the Dick Dastardly logo? If so, it's a pleasure to meet again. . .
Dear London Jim,
I remember you my friend. I am. When you get a chance come visit Sons of Liberty over at http://liberty.spruz.com
I'm saddened to hear about your family health issues, I pray God blesses and touch those in your family who need touch of his healing hand for He is the great Physician.
I welcome the clarification given by Dr. Ja'far Sheikh. His argument is very useful as it cuts through the thick smoke screen on all sides of the Ground Zero mosque controversy, for example.
@greycoat, nice one. Thanks for the prayer and blessings. Keep on keeping on brother in arms.