Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat

Dhimmitude on the sly. Eurabia Update: "Top supermarkets secretly sell halal: Sainsbury's, Tesco, Waitrose, and M&S don't tell us meat is ritually slaughtered," by Abul Taher in the Daily Mail, September 25 (thanks to Stefcho):

Britain's biggest supermarket chains are selling halal lamb and chicken without telling unsuspecting shoppers.

Those stocking meat slaughtered according to Islamic law include Waitrose, Marks & Spencer, Sainsbury's, Tesco, Somerfield and the Co-op.

And a Mail on Sunday investigation has found that fast-food chains including Domino's Pizza, Pizza Hut, KFC, ­Nando's and Subway are also using halal meat without ­telling customers.

But the UK's second-biggest supermarket, Asda, has refused to confirm or deny whether it sells halal meat.

The Mail on Sunday contacted Asda on Tuesday, but by yesterday it had failed to answer any of our questions.

Initially, Waitrose, Sainsbury's and Tesco were reluctant to admit they sold halal meat. But later they confessed to selling Islamically slaughtered lamb. Tesco also admitted selling some halal chicken without labelling it as such.

Most lamb imported from New Zealand by British supermarkets has been slaughtered according to Muslim law, but this is not mentioned on packaging. Some lamb from British abattoirs is also halal.

Last night, Agriculture Minister Jim Paice said: 'People should know what they're buying in the shops or when they're eating out and I will be discussing with the food industry the role labelling can play in giving consumers a choice.'

The supermarkets and fast-food outlets said they did not feel the need to tell customers that meat is halal because the slaughter conformed to Western standards, with animals stunned before being killed.

But the RSPCA has raised concerns about the way chicken is killed in Islamic abattoirs because the birds are stunned with a weaker electric current, which does not guarantee unconsciousness during slaughter.

Our enquiries have found that ­Subway uses some Islamically slaughtered chicken that has not been stunned.

Non-Muslim religious leaders say that Christians, Hindus or Sikhs may find it offensive to eat meat slaughtered according to Islamic ritual. Jews are unlikely to be exposed to such meat because they eat kosher, or animals slaughtered according to Jewish law.

Last week The Mail on Sunday revealed how halal food was being served to unsuspecting people in hospitals, schools and pubs across the UK....

Inayat Bunglawala, the chair of Muslims4UK, said: 'Supermarkets should not be afraid of labelling their products as halal. Halal meat tastes just the same as non-halal meat.'

But Mike Judge, from the campaign group the Christian Institute, said: 'The idea of having Islamic ritual said over meat would be objectionable to some Christians. I would find it objectionable, so it should be labelled as halal.'...

The Muslim slaughterman murmurs the Islamic verse as thousands of chickens whir towards him on a conveyor belt hung from the ceiling.

Masood Akhtar grabs hold of one chicken's head with his left hand and, with his right, draws his knife across its neck.

The slaughterman barely has time to say 'Bismillah Allah-hu-Akbar' (meaning 'In the name of Allah, who is the greatest') before the next bird is upon him.

It appears a long way from the ritualised slaughter that many would imagine produces halal chicken. Mr Akhtar is not dressed in robes but in a hair-net and a yellow blood-spattered jacket.

And far from a spiritual ceremony, the process is clinical and robotic - Mr Akhtar claims to kill 45 birds every minute and 40,000 in a week.

The procedure appears to follow Sharia law, which states that the bird must be killed alive by a Muslim man who recites the set verse as he cuts its throat....

Mr Akhtar, 29, became a slaughterman at the age of 18 after a few months' training.

'When I arrived I wanted to be a killer,' he recalled. 'On my first day in training, three out of ten birds I killed were not cut properly through both neck arteries - this meant they were not halal.

'But after three months of practice I was perfect - every bird was killed in true halal style.'

The Paul Flatman plant opened in 1961 slaughtering chickens in the normal way, but in 1977, as demand from halal wholesalers increased, Mr Flatman switched his entire production to halal.

He says he has never found it hard to recruit Muslim slaughtermen. 'It's usually just through word of mouth in the Muslim community - it's not hard to find volunteers.'...

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MISSING IN ACTION (MIA) REPORT:

Where is PETA in all of this? Animal slaughtering is not a pretty sight even in the best of circumstances. It takes little imagination to comprehend the level of cruelty introduced to this enterprise when Islamic mumbo-jumbo is added to the mixture. Cruelty to the dignity of others is stock-in-trade with respect to Islam, regardless of whether the other is human or animal.

I suppose PETA is to be found in the same large hole in the sand where the feminists have stuck their collective heads.

"Mr Akhtar, 29, became a slaughterman at the age of 18 after a few months' training."

I guess he didn't pass the class to chop infidels' heads off properly. Off to the slaughterhouse!

"He says he has never found it hard to recruit Muslim slaughtermen. 'It's usually just through word of mouth in the Muslim community - it's not hard to find volunteers.'..."

Kind of like how Muslims are recruited to become terrorists and kill infidels. It's not hard to find volunteers out of 1.5 billion. Word of mouth at the mosque, a few meetings here and there, a refresher in Islamic ideology with an imperative to follow the Sunnah....after years of indoctrination from birth, an unquestioning attitude to life and a desire to submit to Allah, it's not hard to see why Muslims are carrying out terrorist attacks everyday.

Frankly, I could care less about the beef and mutton that Muslims eat. If Islam wasn't a noisily supremacist religion whose members seem to feel that they have a right to commit terrorism against their neighbors, I'd say let them say their prayers and bleed out their animals. I've even eaten in Muslim-run restaurants during my various travels. I've lived cheek by jowl with Jews for a lot of my life, including those who kept kosher, and cannot get worked up about how neighborly, decent people want their animal protein--even if I think it's a crying shame that they don't recognize the true M'shiach and understand how he declared all foods clean.

As for some "animal rights" and "deep ecology" groups (maybe not PETA), they can be almost as bad as al-Qaeda with their spiking trees to ambush loggers and similar things--and I'm writing as someone who sees man's dominion over the rest of creation as stewardship over God's property rather than license.

However, I agree with Fscarn that it's much worse to see the way the Muslims treat their women.

He says he has never found it hard to recruit Muslim slaughtermen.
Why am I not surprised ?

I won't knowingly buy meat over which the slaughterer has recited words much the same as those used by terror bombers. Only pork is safe from this shameful practice.

The pusillanimous lamb suppliers attempt to excuse themselves by saying that it's too difficult to label the packages or that they don't think customers want the information. Bull.

Not hard to find Muslim slaughterers? Then why did I hear years ago about 5,000 halal butchers needed as immigrants to Britain, or, here in Australia, hear of how easy it is for Muslims to immigrate if they agree to put up with slaughtering animals for a year or two before they get residency permits (and new butchers, of course, are continually needed)?

"Top UK supermarkets secretly sell only halal meat"


not too surprised her...Top UK politicians are secretly being lax on fighting the war on terror...

All animal killing, except in self defense or suffering caused euthanasia, is animal abuse...
If the idea is to 'abstain from blood', the ritual is pointless because it is impossible to get all the blood out of the meat...
For these who have a strong attachment to God, Miester Eckhart, a 16th century priest, who's works are studied today (google)...Said...
'God does not love creatures as creatures, God loves creatures as God'...
If that's the case, how can we abuse and kill his beloved, and then tell him how much we love him?

Torturing animals to death...We put the ball player in jail for doing something similar to dogs...But his reasons were not religious...If you torture animals to death for food and religion, it is not torture, it is halal/kosher...
No charges will be filed...

"Inayat Bunglawala, the chair of Muslims4UK, said: 'Halal meat tastes just the same as non-halal meat.'"

Bungling-wally is a darling of the liberal left and writes anodyne pieces for The Guardian (UK) about how Islam is just a collection of harmless rituals. Islamic violence is some kind of aberration that will fade away some day.

However, the news is disturbing in that we expect Islam to be underhand and devious, as always, but why are 'our guys' doing its bidding on the sly. That's worrying!

However, there is a way to solve the problem! Every time you buy chicken from one of these supermarkets, remember to recite the following as you leave the checkout:

'Stuff the prophet and Islam
Bacon's great, and so is ham.'

There's a long tradition in Britain of reciting an antidote to a wicked spell cast by the Evil One :))

The adoration of the slaughterman for his art raises my hackles.

No surprise that Bunglawala resorts to the issue of tase to deflect criticism.

Muslims produce Halal meat, if we go down this road we will be put our own people out of work, and its also a animal rights issue.

Muslims produce Halal meat, if we go down this road we will be put our own people out of work,

Who are 'our own people'?

@ Jameela

Hi! You've stopped taking your medication again, haven't you.

But while your here. Can you explain a couple of things? In part of your fevered ramblings, you say that "The jew’s forged the Torah and the New Testament to hide their Satanic origins ....."

OK. If you can produce the *original* of the Torah and the New Testament and prove beyond any doubt that the current texts we have are forged, I'll recite the Shahada immediately and start beating my wife. Is it a deal?

Secondly, it's your turn to answer David Hume's question.
(born 1711 - died 1776)
"Which is more likely -- that a man should be used as a transmitter by God to deliver some already existing revelations, or that he should utter some already existing revelations and believe himself to be, or claim to be, ordered by God to do so?"

So, it's simple. 'Likely' or 'unlikely' that your prophet is a liar who invented the Qur'an from the same fevered delusions that you are presently suffering from.

My advice is to lay off the 'halal' meat, Jameela. The evil spell cast by the slaughterer is affecting your mental health.


"Only pork is safe".

I cannot think of a way they can get around that one. Perhaps we will see efforts to shut down British pig-farming completely, "in the interests of tolerance"?
A very depressing report. Shame on the supermarkets, who I hope will feel some financial pain for this abuse of the trust of their customers.

"Jews are unlikely to be exposed to such meat because they eat kosher, or animals slaughtered according to Jewish law."

That's true for some of us, but not all Jews follow Jewish dietary laws. So in the UK even they are indirectly subsidizing and condoning the transformation of the UK's meat industry into one conforming to Islamic values.

And, by the way, must we be subjected to Jameela's foolish da'wa?

Fscarn asked where is PETA in all this? Well, in fact they are reight there lurking in the shadows of this article. Well, not PETA exactly, they don't have much of a presence in Britain, but various UK based militant Animal-Rights / Leftist / Anarchist organisations are currently behind a campaign to stop Kosher slaughtering in the UK. If they could do it without troubling the Muslims they would, but their problem is that Halal slaughtering is based on shekittah (kosher slaughtering). Muslims in this instance are collateral in the ever-present war against the Jews.

The facts of the case are this: in kosher slaughtering the knife must be razor sharp and completely free of nicks in the cutting edge. The cut must be made in a single stroke back and forth through the neck, cutting the main arteries. The animal does not feel the cut (as anyone who ever cut themselves with a razor blade can testify) and faints within two seconds of the severing of the arteries. Scientific studies have shown that pain responses in the brain are no worse with shekittah than with animals who have their skulls smashed open with the bolt of a stun-gun (the usual way of slaughtering in Europe and the UK). Though the jury is still out on how exactly to judge brain responses to pain. The thing that really causes the most distress to animals in slaughter houses is the smell of blood, it sends them into a panic, and unfortunately this is worse with ritual slaughter because the whole idea is to drain the carcass of blood. With bolt stunning, the blood stays in the animal's corpse, and that's why stunned animals cannot ever be kosher.

As the article states, Halal slaughter does not prohibit stunning.

An animal that is not killed within the parameters laid out above is not kosher, but kosher is more than just the method of slaughter and the type of animal (cloven hoof, chew the cud, etc). There are also rules about the condition of the animals innards, e.g. if there are lesions (rough patches) found on the animal's lungs it is not kosher, even though it was perfectly healthy before slaughter and is fit for consumption. Furthermore, Jews do not eat the hind quarters of an animal unless the sciatic nerve is removed (porged), and at present there very few people in the UK or Europe who are qualified according to Rabbinic law to do this highly skilled job so it is rarely done. As a result kosher meat is very expensive and to reduce the cost, un-porged hind quarters and meat from animals with lung lesions (all perfectly good cuts, just not kosher) are sold to the non-kosher market to offset the cost of kosher production.

The animals-rights/leftist/anarchists are campaigning to have this meat sold to the mainstream market labelled as "killed by ritual slaughter" with the intention to block this revenue stream and thus make kosher slaughtering unviable. It's an appeal to emotion and a tugging at the heartstrings of the masses by implying ritual slaughter is barbaric, despite their being no scientific concensus on the matter.

Jameela talks about violence almost as much as the Qur'an...must be a connection..

Why don't you check out the yoghurt tubs in your supermarket next time you are there?

PorkyPig

He says he has never found it hard to recruit Muslim slaughtermen. 'It's usually just through word of mouth in the Muslim community - it's not hard to find volunteers.'...

yeah muslims practice on animals, then it is the neck of the non-muslim to experience slaughter, liberals first, self hating Jews etc.

Jews should not view halal foods as kosher. I don't think most Jews would want an arabic, muslim invocation and consider this the same as their own ritualistic procedures. While the procedure may be basically the same, surely the prayers ARE NOT and Jews should accept only their own Kosher procedures for choosing their foods.

The actual facts are that it is illegal in Britain to slaughter animals without pre-stunning, but Mohammedans (and Jews, but they are not trying to make me eat the stuff) have a 'dispensation' from the government to ignore this law.

As a result, and as reported by the Farm Animal Welfare Committee working for the government, an animal can endure severe pain for up to two minutes while hanging upside down chained by its back legs, after having its throat cut. The FAWC recommended that the dispensation be withdrawn, but the government refused.

No matter how sharp the knife is, the pain starts within seconds. Yes, Tziona, I have accidentally cut myself with a razor blade, and yes, it was painless - for about a second or so. It hurt like hell after that.

The gibberish muttered by the slaughterman is irrelevant. These animals are being tortured to death for what boils down to illogical and superstitious reasons. And the dispensation from the government to torture these animals does not extend to selling the meat to non-mohammedans. That practice should be stopped immediately.

Write to your MP and demand that this stuff at least be labelled with its source and method of slaughter, and preferably stopped altogether.


Unfortunately folks are conflating different issues here and missing the main points - the focus should not be on the method of slaughter and its "humanness" as these are PETA type issues, and one that has historically been manipulated by anti-semites in anti-Kosher campaigns. The sad reality is that humans kill to eat, and the animals know it, all the rest is just pretense and posturing - eating other animals is savage and brutal, and it tastes good too. There is no way to sugar coat this reality, even chocolate covered bacon is still from a pig that liked having its snout scratched. Might as well face reality squarely and accept that were are barbaric animals that kill to eat.


The stealth halal is a campaign of a different sort that should be resisted on other grounds. Halal and Kosher may be similar, but are not the same. My understanding is that Kosher is Halal, but Halal is not Kosher.

Indoctrination may be a ubber-goal, but money is the immediate object. The halal fees are a form of tribute that non-muslin customers are being forced to pay, secretly no less. This is the injury added to the insult of being forced to pay for anti-prayers to be said while killing. It just reminds me of the anti-prayers said over Daniel Pearl at his Halal slaughter.

Oh, by the way, isn't there something discriminatory if only muslins can be butchers in the UK?

Thanks, but no thanks. Customers deserve a choice, and no real choice is possible without information. Why was this done secretly?

am so suprise why the are selling halal products secretly in uk frm the all the reliable sources, Islam is one of the fastest growing religion not only in uk and united state but in world. It has been verified by many independent sources, many of which are listed below
.
CNN World News ( 14 November 1997 Report
World Christian Database ( 200-2005 Survey )
Foreign Policy ( May 2007 Reports

halal products its moving very well in the west making millions out it why do you think the have to sell it secretly? make no any sense to me.

Kosher meat is prohibitively expensive in the UK and much of Europe.

Aardvark, true a razor cut, though painless to begin with, does hurt after a few seconds, but if that painless cut was to your jugular you would never feel it because you would have passed out before the pain hits. And you can't seriously claim that smashing an animal's skull open with metal bolt is less painful to the animal than slicing it's soft tissue with a razor-sharp blade causing loss of blood pressure to the brain?

It's subjective and there is, as yet, no objective way to measure pain, but have you ever broken a leg or an arm, which hurt more, the razor cut or the shattered bone?

LOGIC rears its ugly head.

I was in my local Sainsbury's the other day, and asked, 'is this meat halal?' and was told they didn't know. Asked for the manager, asked the same question, he said 'why do you want to know?' I replied as a customer I had every right to know, and would be taking my custom elsewhere. If enough of us did that, they would have to reverse their policies. Now I just have to find a friendly neighbourhood butcher... ( also now ask the question routinely in restaurants).

"stunning chickens with electric shocks?"

Guys, I'm afraid it's done here in the U.S. also. The cattle, too.

Yes, it is cruel. I couldn't eat meat for a while after I read that. But it's a fact.

So, either you stop eating it altogether, or do what the old Judeo-christians, up to a generation or so ago did:

BLESS ALL YOUR FOOD BEFORE YOU EAT IT!

@hakeem. Fastest growing? Yawn. What grew up in a day can disappear in a day. Guess where that saying originated.

I'm offended by someone praying "in the name of Allah, the greatest" over my food. I don't want Islamic ritual involved in something I purchase, and I don't want to promote Islamic practices or products. I believe I should have the right to labeling which allows me to make the choice for myself.

Unfortunately, the greedy meat producers and supermarkets know something labeled 'halal' will not sell - so they just don't print a label. That's offensive for a different reason.

Finally, I'm offended as an Orthodox Christian because I know very well what Islam thinks of other religions. If Muslims were made to eat kosher there would be hell to pay - but because its only non-Muslims people think the only issue is the cruelty of halal slaughter. For me its much more than that. This is about governments, businesses and many others taking liberties with all religions except one. Well guess what? Non-Muslims can be offended too!

@hakeem. Fastest growing? Yawn. What grew up in a day can disappear in a day. Guess where that saying originated.


well may be your right what grew in a day can disappear in a day but its very unlikely with Islam i think that its impossible. what i understand its most of the people converted to Islam are white Caucasian African Americans Latinos Asians am not talking about Arabs Pakistanis Malaysians or Africans

You are concerned about halal meat?
As Porky Pig said..check your yoghurt tubs.
And for that matter, check your cheese, chocolate and lollies.
You will find, and they don't always put it on the label, that your cheese, yoghurts and confactionary all contain halal ingredients, either halal rennet or halal gelatine.
In New Zealand the biggest diary producer, Fonterra, only sells products with halal ingredients. This is not advertised to the general public and\or not labelled as such.
Some of the Fonterra products such as the yoghurt (Fresh and Fruity) will list the ingredient as halal on the package. The icecream (Tip Top) does not state that it includes a halal ingredient but this can be found on the website. Mainland has only advertised the fact that its cheeses contain halal ingredients to the Muslim community through one of its muslim employees.
And before you Americans and English start gloating...most Kraft (And Cadburry)products are Halal. They just don't advertise it.
Look at http://www.ifanca.org/products/search_halal/
You will be surprised what you're eating.

Correction..
..confectionery.....

hakeem, what is 'Islam'?

Big deal.
The Nazis also rose to power from nothing to millions of members in less than ten years.
They had thousands (if not millions) of supporters all over the world (German Bund in the US for example).
And while there still are a lot of nazi supporters in muslim countries, they are just a fringe group in the West.
Easy come, easy go.....

hakeem. What did your boy write about Jonah? Careful now, the waters here are deep.

" what i understand its most of the people converted to Islam are white Caucasian African Americans Latinos Asian"


Oh, how many are those? Handfuls!

On the other hand, there are islamics leaving that hellish mind-set, by the MILLIONS...but they're NOT going to tell you personally, that's yer sure.

allat, yer, leaving's their safe shore fer sure.

do you think islam is nazi or communism ?

Yeah, I noticed that too, when he said he wanted to be a killer. Creepy stuff.

In the Utopia, yeah, the author never went veggie, but did suggest that slaughtering of meat animals would be left to the socially marginal - the sickos of society, people who already have stuff all wrong in the head .. because no one else would be able to do it. I guess that's what we've got.

As for the supermarket chains, I hope someone does a similar study here; yes, I want to know not only where the meat comes from, but how it was dealt with. And I shan't be going to Subway again in the near future (it's the only one of those chains that exist in this town), at least until I can confirm that their Canadian practices are not the same as British ones.

@ London Jim
Never mind i can help myself out no matter how deep its the water trust on this

. . .maybe, chap. . .if your written word floats beyond your conviction. . .

"do you think islam is nazi or communism ? "
They have lots in common however...
The nazi and the communist movements are benign compared to the violent, totalitarian, misogynic and intollerant ideology that is islam.

Muslims love the nazi ideology. Mein Kampf is together with the koran one of the best selling books in Turkey and so called 'palestine'. In pakistan booksellers are doing a roaring trade.
Why is that?
It is because nazi fascists have so much in common with islamofascists.
Now for some history lessons hakeem.....
The muslim brotherhood came into being partly as a result of the 1937 Nazi-conducted propaganda campaigns in the region.
In fact, during WWII, the Palestinian Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husayni, tried to create an alliance between Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, and Arab nationalists “for the ultimate purpose of conducting Holy War of Islam against ‘international Jewry.’

Arab leaders have repeatedly made clear their animosity toward Jews and Judaism. For example, on November 23, 1937, Saudi Arabia's King Ibn Saud told British Colonel H.R.P. Dickson: "Our hatred for the Jews dates from God's condemnation of them for their persecution and rejection of Isa and their subsequent rejection of His chosen Prophet." He added "that for a Muslim to kill a Jew, or for him to be killed by a Jew ensures him an immediate entry into Heaven and into the august presence of God Almighty."

When Hitler introduced the Nuremberg racial laws in 1935, he received telegrams of congratulation from all corners of the Arab world.4 Later, during the war, one of his most ardent supporters was the Mufti of Jerusalem.

There were lots of proud muslims serving in ISLAMIC divisions
Aserbaidschanische Legion en de 450th Turkestanisches Battalion,
Ostmuselmanische SS-Regiment,
Osttürkischen Waffen-Verbände der SS,
Kaukasischer Waffen-Verband der SS,
Arabisches Freiheitskorps
21st Waffen Mountain Division of the SS Skanderbeg
The last division was used in Albania to hunt Jews under SS-Gruppenführer Josef Fitzthum, Höhere SS und Polizeiführer Albanien.

Do you think all the Nazi war criminals went to South America?
The worst ones went to the Middle East and were welcomed with open arms.

Since WWII, Egypt, Syria, and Iran have been accused of sheltering Nazi war criminals.
Fritz Stangl, commandant of Treblinka, lived in Damascus for several years;
Alois Brunner, Adolf Eichmann’s aide, spent almost all of his post-war years in Egypt and Syria, where he is still believed to live today
Franz Bartel, assistant Gestapo chief of Katowice, along with numerous Nazi doctors, including Dr. Herbert Heim and Dr. Willerman, who were responsible for the “experiments” on concentration camp prisoners, have all been welcomed into and found employment in Egypt.
In fact, Egypt went beyond merely offering refuge and asylum.114 Egyptian leader Gamal Abdel Nasser stated: “We will use the services of those who know the mentality of our enemies.”

Furthermore, some Arabs have gone so far as to embrace Nazism itself and to applaud the Nazis’ attempted genocide of the Jews.116 A recent article in the Egyptian newspaper, Al-Akhbar, read: “[Give] thanks to Hitler . . . . He took revenge on the Israelis in advance, on behalf of the Palestinians. Our one complaint against him was that his revenge was not complete enough.”

As early as January 1952, the ODESSA network was in contact with "influential" Egyptian army officers and the former Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, who had lived in Egypt since the fall of Nazi Germany. According to the Israeli intelligence agency MOSSAD and French intelligence files, numerous former SS officers held key positions in the secret service and political police in Egypt. These included:

Joachim Däumling, former Gestapo chief in Düsseldorf, and later engaged in SS operations in Croatia. He was employed to set up the Egyptian secret service along the lines of the SS Reichssicherheitshauptamt (Himmler's Reich Security Main Office); he was helped by the former Gestapo chief of Warsaw who organised the security police.
SS General Oskar Dirlewanger, chief of the infamous SS penal brigade;
SS Major Eugen Eichberger, battalion-commander in the Dirlewanger brigade;
SS Colonel Leopold Gleim, chief of the Gestapo department for Jewish affairs in Poland;
SS Lieutenant Colonel Bernhard Bender, Gestapo official in Poland the USSR, whose knowledge of Yiddish enabled him to penetrate Jewish underground organisations;
SS General Heinrich Selimann, Gestapo chief in Ulm;
SS Major Schmalstich, Gestapo liaison officer to French collaborationists and organizer of Jewish transports from Paris to Auschwitz;
SS Major Seipal, Gestapo official in Paris;
SS General Alois Moser, a war criminal who was involved in the extermination of the Soviet Jews in the Ukraine;
SS officer Johannes von Leers (1902-1963), who had been responsible for anti-Semitic campaigns at Goebbels' propaganda ministry;
SS officer, Alois Brunner, who had held senior position in Adolph Eichmann's "Jewish Department", and is now believed to be living under the protection of the Syrian secret police in Damascus;
SS Major Walter Bollman, Nazi espionage chief in Britain before the war, and also involved in crimes against humanity and genocide against the Jews of the Ukraine;
SS official Louis Heiden, who was transferred to the Egyptian press office during the war;
Franz Bartel, and "old fighter" in the early days of the NSDAP in Germany, and Gestapo officer;
Walter Birgal, an SS officer from Leipzig;
Erich Bunz, a former SA major and expert in the "Jewish Question";
Albert Thielemann, a regional SS chief in Bohemia;
SS Captain Wilhelm Böckler, a war criminal who had precipitated in the liquidation of the Warsaw Ghetto;
Wehrmacht General Wilhelm Fahrmbacher, who took over the central planning staff in Cairo . . . .

Added to this were a number of former Nazi officials and sixty military experts, mostly former Waffen-SS men, who assisted in the training of the Egyptian army. Several of them were also linked in 1958 with the then Algerian government-in-exile.
At least 200 German and Austrian scientists and other personnel were deployed in the new aircraft and missile centre at Helwan, where new staff physician was Dr. Hanns Eisele, SS Captain and medical torturer in the death camp at Buchenwald. Goodrick-Clarke says that President Gamal Abdel Nasser was "well disposed" towards the Nazis, all the more because they wished to take part in the destruction of Israel. The presence of so many Nazi's in Egypt under the Nasser regime was exposed in the world press in October 1962, and precipitated a crisis in the Israeli government (who had ordered MOSSAD to make try and kill several of the Nazi's), and embarrassment in West Germany, over the exposure of postwar Nazi collaboration with the Nasser regime.

Read this..
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/05/world/africa/05nazi.html
Can you see now from who those goose stepping Hamas creeps or those Hezbollah terrorists giving the Hitler salute learned their trade?

@andy
Big deal.
The Nazis also rose to power from nothing to millions of members in less than ten years.

we'll not allow you to throw out your own black sheep on us. keep that in mind!

Most of Kaft product met the Halal standard way before they ask for it to be label Halal. Good bussien sense as many muslim look for the label thay say it is Halal.

The jihad is incremental. There will be a stepping up of the campaign at the check outs, with an increase in the number of Muslims refusing to handle pork products (even when vacuum packed in plastic). The instigation for this will come at Friday prayers. Enough disruption and consequential costs and the shop managers may decide it's easier not to stock haram stuff at all.

They are not my black sheep.
They are your ideological buddies.

My family fought against them.
The ummah fought with them.
And still does...
http://tinyurl.com/24ck2af

Hakeem, I hope you buy your halal meat at the same supermarkets I use - because I give all the halal meat therein a Christian blessing, making sure my cross shadows the meat shelves. Only been thrown out once, too. Of course, it won't be halal any more, but you won't mind not knowing that, will you?

Quote from the muslim slaughterman: "'When I arrived I wanted to be a killer".

Why am I not surprised?

1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KD_lBstvptE

2]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEATQF5lCYo&feature=related


3]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usV6d0aoErA&feature=related

4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tga2FX9Ai9c&feature=related

5]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXRVn_nFHB0&feature=related

6]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8lDNtrgGYA&feature=related

]7]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4BOlMAc0n0&feature=related


8http://emperors-clothes.com/vatican/cpix.htm

9http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Holocaust/poperep.html


10 ]http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_ss33co.htm

11]http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/the_vatican.htm

12]http://www.weirdload.com/gold.html

13]http://www.vaticanbankclaims.com/CNS.htm

have yourself a very nice reading and watching and please let me know if your done because you have alot read .

Done
Anymore stupid videos you nazi loving islamofascist?

Let me add an excerpt from an article by David G. Dalin and John F. Rothmann: "Hitler's Mufti and the Rise of Radical Islam":

" ... During a 1941 visit to Berlin, for example, Hitler declared the Arab mufti an "honorary Aryan" - interpreted by Dalin and Rothmann as the mufti's having found his "soul-mate" - and, while touring Auschwitz, al-Husseini "reportedly urged the guards in charge of the (gas) chambers to be more diligent and efficient in their efforts." The mufti himself notes in his diary that "I will keep up my fight until the complete destruction of the Judeo-Bolshevik rule has been accomplished. ..."

"Most of Kraft product met the Halal standard way before they ask for it to be label Halal. Good bussien sense as many muslim look for the label thay say is Halal ".

If Kraft products met the Halal standard to begin with, why wouldn't they advertise that fact ? Especially if it was good for business.

I don't recall seeing a Halal stamp, on anything from Kraft. ( But that doesn't mean that there aren't any ).

By the way, DOI, if I ever find that a product that I've used is secretly Halal approved, I will never buy it again.

That's known as deception.


I say all religious slaughter should be done away with, for food and especially sacrifice. The _humane_ raising and slaughter of animals IS an important issue, for us as a society. The Buddha was right about that one - a people can be judged by the way it treats its animals (as they are the most helpless ones we can victimize; people will come to the defence of a child that is not their own, but who cares about someone else's donkey or cow?)

Ancient human stupidstition should never trump an animal's welfare.

And ironically enough, there used to be an anti-animal rights group called Putting People First. They would be right supportive of Muslim rights to halal slaughter, and probably would think this whole supermarket/Subway thing was just great.

good if your done with stupid videos jump to reading part will you......thats if you can handle the truth!

VEGEMITE has gone halal in a bid by food giant Kraft to make the national "treasure" available to Muslim Australians.
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/vegemite-gets-politically-correct/story-e6frf7l6-1225822912030

Kraft
http://www.eathalalonly.com/search/label/*KRAFT

Australian halal products
KRAFT - All cheese except Fromais
http://www.international.mq.edu.au/macquarie/sydney/religion/ausproducts#ausproducts

very good question refer to jihadwatch group because for me i'll likely use Taqiyya to answer you. its that fair enough?

What the F#$% have I got to do with the Vatican you weirdo?
Don't you fascists never get tired of tu quoque arguments?
And
Where do you keep your collection of nazi videos hakeem?
Next to the othere islamic snuff movies?
A for amputations
B for beheadings
I for important people (Mohammed, Amin, Khomeini, Hitler, Eichman etc.)
L for little boys
N for Nazi stuff (Hezbollah, Hamas, Muslim brotherhood etc)
R for riots (Sub listed by continent and country)
S for stonings and suicide bombings
U for underage girls

so what makes you think i have sum thing that has do with Grand Mufti of Jerusalem? you can't run away from that you have alot that has to do with the Vatican As far as I'm concerned.

Hakeem, you have unfinished business on the stoning thread. Or did you just run away?

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/09/video-surfaces-of-taliban-stoning-woman-in-northwest-pakistan.html#comment-714131

Can't you follow through on your defense of stoning in Islam?

"you can't run away from that you have alot that has to do with the Vatican As far as I'm concerned."

"you have alot that has to do with the Vatican"
You start to ramble and don't make sense anymore.
I thought alcohol was halal.

YOUR question was (I know it was a long time ago for someone with ADD")

"do you think islam is nazi or communism ?"

I answered it.

I have no idea what the Vatican has to do with goose stepping islamonazis.

@ marisol

what i notice about most of you guys you skillfully dividing yourself between the new testament and the old testament i ask you this question thats if your a Christan

do you believe in the old testament ?

john 8;1;11 was not the only post[ new testament] i made
John 10:31 ,Acts 5:26,lastly Acts 14:19 o or its the only piece of gospel you choice to believe in the new testament about stoning ? anyway


when the young woman was brought before him that had been caught in an act of adultery. That passage is found in John 8:1-11: right?

Jesus responded to that crowd of stone throwers by responding; "He that is without sin among you; let him first cast a stone at Her"!

That entire crowd of stone-throwers dropped all of their stones and departed from the woman after being convicted by their own conscience. Jesus being left alone with the Woman then asked; woman where are thine accusers? She was left un-condemned of course! All of her accuser had fled from the searing pointedness of Jesus question. The whole scene of course was an entrapment for JESUS, not necessarily the woman.do care to know why the fled?

Wow ! Thanks for those links, Andy.

I had no idea of how wide spread, the Halal label is !

Looks like DOI is correct about this...

"what I notice about you guys you skillfully dividing yourself between the new testament and the old testament i ask you this question thats if your a Christan

do you believe in the old testament ? ".

The old testament is the old testament. The new testament is the new testament.

The new testament is the logical extension of the old testament.

There is no " skillfully dividing ", of anything.

Now that your question has been answered, why don't you answer Marisols question, about the stoning issue ? I'd like to hear your response.

Hakeem points out a good question here and i thank you and
Andy for the both sides of the story very interesting.

Not all of us are Christians, mate.

And we atheists aren't required to be as nice as they are.

I think the Christians ought to step back on this one, and let us redneck atheists handle the Muslim problem. It wouldn't be a problem any more.

I have no idea what the Vatican has to do with goose stepping islamonazi

oh really?

if you hated my critique of your allegations , you probably
wouldn’t say my the stupid videos is wrong. Instead, you might say it’s “arrogant,”
“naive,” “outmoded,” “xenophobic,” “culturally biased”;I’m
sure you have heard all those things— . Don’t be intimidated by me

kind of rhetoric, especially provided by jihadwatch for gullible readers like yourself it is utterly divorced from any rational justification !



In a previous generation, Communism and fascism were rapidly expanding ideologies.

At one time, virtually all humans practiced polytheism.

It is absurd to argue that any given ideology is correct because its adherents are growing in number/

Hakeem: only took you 2 days to respond!

Your own scriptures parse the Taurat and Injil as different entities. That's why you call them as such in Arabic. Indeed, you claim the Qur'an perfects the Torah and Gospels, but you not only parse them out, but discard them to create a clean slate for Muhammad's re-write.

Anyway, it ultimately doesn't matter what I believe, though Paul Hoffman's response to you above is very well stated.

What matters is the effect that this story in the Bible has had on Western civilization and law, and how it is understood by believers. I think this is the key: Had stoning gone forward in that passage, imagine how different Western societies would be.

The result, instead, has helped foster a system of justice that is superior in every way to Sharia.

"oh really?"

Yes really.
I did not say anything about your stupid videos because they don't have ANYTHING to do with the question.
The past AND current link between the nazi party and islam has nothing to do with the vatican and especialy nothing with me.
Again, it is an invalid, tu quoque argument.
(Look it up!)

I don't care about the Vatican..they don't STILL parade like little nazis, spout anti semtism like hamas, hezbollah and other associated muslim organisations.
And they don't glorify the nazis and adolf hitler as many muslims do....
Again;
Mein Kampf is widely available in Turkey and growing in popularity, even to the point where it became a bestseller, selling up to 100,000 copies in just two months in 2005.
Dogu Ergil, a political scientist at Ankara University, said both left-wingers, the far-right and Islamists, had found common ground.
An Arabic translation of Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf is being distributed by Al-Shurouq, a Ramallah based book distributor, to East Jerusalem and territories controlled by the PA. According to Agence France Presse (Sept. 8), the book, previously banned by Israel, has been allowed by the PA and is 6th on the Palestinian best-seller list."
Luis Al-Haj, translator of the Arabic edition, writes glowingly in the preface about how Hitler's "ideology" and his "theories of nationalism, dictatorship and race… are advancing especially within our Arabic States."

Don't try to compare present day Catholics (And no I am not a cathiolic) with present day muslims.....
There is no common ground and more and more people are starting to realise this.
Your god is a god of hate. Buddha and Christ preached peace but Mohammed was a warlord who said himself "I have been made victorious with terror".
You don't find rabbis, priests or vicars preaching hatred towards other religions and suggesting that non-believers and gays should be stoned to death.
You won’t be able to find videos of beheadings or stonings carried out by Jews or Christians either.

Upon reading the comments, this is the comment I wanted to make. Thank you for saying it far better than I could have!

Also, "anti-prayers" - what is a wonderful and descriptive term. I will have to remember this and adopt it!

Paul Hoffman you are than fool. First it than frank company make only all beef frank for two hundred year in germany they met than halah standard than lower one. They never add pork to the frank, all vegrates ande fruits are halah so I guess you will be drink only alcohol drinks and eating pork only.

Thank you for the kind words Mo.

This part:

"Oh, by the way, isn't there something discriminatory if only muslins can be butchers in the UK?"

stuck with me so I went looking and look what I found:
http://www.halalmc.net/about_hmc/industry_problems.html

a Halal "watchdog" group complaining that

"Non-Muslims slaughtering at various abattoirs, rendering
the meat Haram"

Did they say "corrupt practices"?

If all meat is to be Halal, and only muslins can be Halal, then no non-muslins can be butchers, except for pork. And how many other occupations should be exclusively protected?

The study carried out by the Farm Animal Welfare Committee showed that the animal would remain conscious and in obvious pain for up to two minutes during halal slaughter.

Stunning, whether by bolt or electric shock, ends all suffering immediately.

Two minutes of agony is an extremely long time - and it is completely unnecessary. That is why stunning was introduced in the first place.

Dalaran said: The _humane_ raising and slaughter of animals IS an important issue, for us as a society.

I agree, and it is one that has been of concern for Jews for 3500 years, we call it tzaar baalei-hayim. So you're not saying anything particularly new or modern. The problem is how to measure pain - empathy is not a measurement.

So I'll repeat once again, there is no scientific way to objectively measure pain (either in humans or animals), so all arguments against ritual slaughter are in actual fact subjective emotional appeals to prejudice against Jewish (and Muslim) belief. When science can accurately measure pain, pain thresholds and animal conscousness then there may be an argument for saying one method of slaughter causes less pain than another, until then anti-shekittah rhetoric is just as much "superstition" as pro-shekittah rhetoric, but without the 3500 year hitorical back-story.

Aardvark said: Two minutes of agony is an extremely long time - and it is completely unnecessary. That is why stunning was introduced in the first place.

A) As I wrote above there is, as yet, no scientific way to objectively measure pain. Not in humans, and not in animals. Empathy is NOT an objective measuring scale.

B) No, stunning was not introduced for the sake of poor suffering animals, it was introduced for the sake of poor suffering slaughters so they could increase their throughput and earn more cash.

While you are re-studying Mark 7 (especially Mark 7:19, omitting the inserted text), study also: Acts 15:29, 21:25; 1 Corinthians 8; Revelation 2:14, 2:20

Christians should NOT eat halal.

Well, then, if we can't measure human pain, either, then allegations of "torture" by human prisoners is also subjective. Why, they might not feel pain at all, but be nothing more than Descartian machines mimicking feelings, like a robot or something.

I have also stated several times before that all of a nation should follow the same laws/rules. If someone wants Kosher, there's Isreal for you. If someone wants halal, well, there's tons of Islamic countries for you. I don't agree with religious expemptions at all.

And besides, they're horribly selective about who gets what exemptions, so fairness isn't even the issue. I'm sure people who engage in ritual cannibalism (even of people who died of natural causes, rather than murder) would not be permitted to practice that part of their religion, and I know for a fact that no religious appeal for marijuana-law exemption has ever worked in this country, and there have been multiple attempts.

The best way to settle the mess is to be truly secular, and allow NO religious exemptions, period.

I'm with you on that one, Dalaran. Withdrawing the 'dispensations' is exactly what the FAWC recommended to the UK government. The government ignored them.

The UK government have also rejected at least two petitions calling for halal meat to be made illegal, one of them only a few weeks ago. See here:
www.hmg.gov.uk/epetition-responses/petition-view.aspx?epref=halalslaughter

The reason they gave for rejecting the petition was:

The laws governing animal welfare at slaughter in both the EU and UK require animals to be stunned before slaughter, but make an exemption from this requirement for religious slaughter carried out by Jews and Muslims.

The Government recognises the needs of certain communities and accepts the importance which they attach to the right to slaughter animals for food in accordance with their beliefs.

That does NOT cover selling the meat to members of other faiths, certainly not on the grand scale that is currently happening.

I just came across this article:

Food trucks sell pork sandwiches
http://shine.yahoo.com/channel/food/10-of-the-remarkable-food-trucks-taking-over-the-u-s-2392644/#photoViewer=2


It's a cute shape. If I were only in Seattle! Haaaa!

Dalaran said: The best way to settle the mess is to be truly secular, and allow NO religious exemptions, period.

Forcing secular opinion on religious people, and denying religious people their traditions, does not prove that a bolt shattering the skull is less painful than a razor slicing an artery. Proof by assertion is not the objective truth, and until science can measure pain objectively you cannot reasonably claim that one method is less painful than the other. Ergo, if you really care about animal suffering, be skeptical of your own assumptions.

I am absolutely furious and disgusted that this barbaric way of killing food animals has been foisted on us English without out knowledge.

This is a cruel way to kill any animal and if I went and did the same thing I would be in the dock, rightfully.

Why are Muslims and Jews allowed to kill animals this way in the UK. When in our Country the laws of this country should be obeyed and not altered to allow such horrible slaughters to be carried out.

We English could not go to places such as Saudi Arabia or Iran and demand our own English way of doing things if it is against the sensitivities of the Muslims who live there. We would not even be allowed to build a Church for our worship in those muslim countries, yet look how many mosques and MEGA mosques are being built here.

If our family cannot find a store which can prove to my satisfaction that their meat is NOT Halal we will be going vegetarian.

Why do our politicians allow a cult whose members add up to less than 5 percent of the British population, dictate to the other 95 percent the cruel way our food animals are killed.

The craven, grovelling of our politicians and food suppliers is good preparation for dhimmitude and we are not going to stand back and let it happen.

I agree with another letter that Pork is the only safe meat to eat.

Well, then, if you care about people, be skeptical about yours. If I assume I can't prove that no one feels pain but me, then why should I not cut the crap out of the next human that irritates me? After all, I'd be causing no harm to him - he can't feel, and hell, maybe he can't really think, either.

Descartes is dead, pal. Vertebrate species all share the same basic neural plan. If it isn't there for a common reason, then what do we - and other mammals, and birds, reptiles, frogs and fish, have nerves and brains for?

Would you like to try out alternate slaughter measures on a couple of humans? Or would them telling you how it feels to have your throat cut be a waste of time, because they might be nothing more than senseless biots?

Pain, you doofus, is an evolutionary asset - it teaches us to stay away from things that might cause it, so that we live longer. And when I say "we" I don't just mean humans.

Going Descartes is just a sad excuse to continue with nasty, selfish behaviour.

And demanding that people have "rights" to cause pain to others for stupidstitious reasons is the height of human arrogance and nastiness, and encapsulates everything I dislike about the species.


Oh, and there's a little biochemical called "dopamine". The brain produces it in order to block pain reception during shock trauma.

And guess what? Even worms produce this. "Primitive" invertebrates. If no one but, say, YOU, can feel pain, then what the hell do the rest of us have it for?

Do you actually know anything about biology, or are you arguing from a religious pov?

So, what is the correct blog reference protocol to pint out that FAIL occurred when Dalaran said to Tziona "you doofus"?

I can't believe that some here are arguing so 'vociferously', well, 'creatively' that there is some "nicer" way to kill an animal than to have it bleed out, and that is ramming a bolt into its head. OK, got your point, you're welcome to your opinion. [I'm tempted to ask about Granny's opinion.]

So, anyway,
If you don't like it Don't buy Kosher. Isn't the free market great?

But then,
You should be very angry at being secretly forced to buy halal, right? Secretly, right? Focus, Please.

Others care to recognize the nuances like long-standing historic practices, food freedom, religious observance, improved animal treatment, and food safety and have come to the conclusion that your position is not supportable. Your position effectively outlaws (a major part of) a religion without there being a compelling public interest of such a magnitude. [We may yet have the opportunity to revisit this "outlaw" question in regard to one religion's doctrines and practices creating a compelling public interest and the necessity of judicial or legislative address.]

Besides,
there are differences between halal and Kosher and we should resist the common attempt to twist your type of "humane" argument into an attack on the Jews. Banning Kosher butchers has long been used as a method to harass Jews.

Look,
Its not like all the halal and Kosher Butchers are trying to outlaw "Bolt-in-the-Brain Killing".

Most people are fine with Kosher; that's not the issue. Some don't want halal, certainly not secretly. Concerned Citizen makes a great point above that Christians by doctrine should not eat "halal", but Kosher is OK. Let us choose.

Disclose it. Label it. There is a difference between permitting a practice and enforcing a practice. That's the real point here.

Freedom to DO, Freedom to NOT.

I called him a doofus for imposing philosophy on biology. His argument that "well, we can't prove pain in each other, so who cares how we kill an animal" is weaker than water, and based on ideas that have been negated by scientific study ... and ironically enough, Descartes formulated his "animate clockwork" idea in response to scientific practice at the time - it was illegal to dissect a human corpse, but perfectly OK to nail a live dog to a board and cut it open to examine how the blood circulates. This did upset people even at the time (such displays were often public), and Descartes, basically, mollified the masses with a philosophy that would please the Church at time (it basically boiled down to the idea that animals have no soul, no "little driver man in the head", and therefore cannot feel pain, and are nothing more than clockwork devices - the sounds of "pain" they make were to be considered no different than the sound a clockspring makes when it breaks.

Of course, this idea not only pleased the Church, but denied all responsibility humans might feel they have towards non-humans, and was an excuse for "anything goes" as far as treatment of non-humans went.

However, once the similarity between human and non-human biology was noticed, it was kind of hard to deny that what causes pain to us, would also cause pain to them.

The commenter would like to deflect the issue of pain in animals in order to protect ancient religious traditions. However, while we can demonstrate that non-human vertebrates share basically the same neurological setup as we do, no one has ever been able to demonstrate that any god of any kind exists, much less that such a god is capable of carrying out any threats or promises at all.

Therefore, the needs of animals outweigh the wants of a god.

But Sir, I still fail to see where you have proven that an animal killed by bloodletting feels any more pain than an animal whose brain is smashed.

Since I have, as various times, fainted and/or hit my head, I have my suspicions which would be easier.

Do you have any proof behind your opinion?

The commenters point is not that concern for the pain of animals is overriden by religious traditions, rather, that the religious tradition is based upon proper treatment of animals and bloodletting is a humane method. Please, Don't let your dislike of religion color your understanding of science and animal husbandry.

FOOD FOR THOUGHT...

A celebrated passage by the tremendously learned theologian Ayatollah Khomeini in his “Tahrirolvasyleh”:

"A man can have sex with animals such as sheep, cows, camels
and so on. However, he should kill the animal after he has his
orgasm. He should not sell the meat to the people in his own
village, but selling the meat to a neighbouring village is
reasonable."

THIS is the first thing that crossed my mind when the "secret" selling of halal meat was mentioned in this thread. ...enough to make me a vegetarian or eat strictly pork.

The thing about stunning is, they use a bolt that immediately destroys the cerebral cortex - this is quite different from bumping your noggin, and far more immediate in causing unconsciousness than a slice to the throat.

Again, would you like to put human subjects through both alternatives, to see what the subjects have to say about it? The bolted one won't have time to so much as gurgle.

We can, at least, observe the effects of slaughter methods. We cannot observe the effects of a human disobeying whatever god it is he believes in, because you, nor anyone else, can produce one to observe.

Don't let your stupidstitious blinders get in the way of science.

Until someone actually produces a god to observe, then what this or that god wants is really irrelevant to anything in the real world.

There are videos of bolt slaughter and halal slaughter. If you watched one you would see the difference if your stomach can stand to watch. Mass halal slaughter is not done clean nor painfree. It is stomach churning to see.

There is a reason those laws were put into place.

More assertions with no proof.

Not that I vouch for halal or this studies procedures, but someone did use the scientific method to investigate your claims. The EEG and ECG results provide evidence to disprove your theory.

http://www.themodernreligion.com/misc/an/an_slaughter.htm

you mentioned the release of dopamine when the bolt hits the head - does it occur to you that other hormones might be released? Immediately draining the blood may have some important benefits.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6T9G-4F08DY9-4&_user=10&_coverDate=04%2F01%2F2005&_rdoc=1&_fmt=high&_orig=search&_origin=search&_sort=d&_docanchor=&view=c&_searchStrId=1477454823&_rerunOrigin=google&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=f92c9d6ae43ba3b2f83ecf85bbf415f6&searchtype=a

Have you actually done any study or investigation in this area?

or are you just following your stupidstitions?

Did you know that a religious tax is paid on halal meat? That means when we have been buying this meat from our supermarkets unaware that we are buying halal, we are contributing to this religious tax and helping to build more mosques and I wouldn't be suprised if we were helping fund terrorism too! How the hell have 4% got more say than 96%?!?! I'm sticking to pork from now on!

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