The attitude and approach of these developers are strikingly similar to those of the Ground Zero mega-mosque's backers: they are demanding sensitivity while showing none, building ostentatiously and acting aggressively, and then gnashing their teeth about "intolerance."
Suppose these obnoxious structures planned for Dudley were part of a mall or a sports arena. When non-religious developers act like this, community members rightfully demand transparency, and air their concerns about the impact of the project on the character of the area. No one gets called a shopper-phobe, or anti-athletics. Indeed, calling the planned structures "obnoxious" wouldn't ruffle any feathers.
But Islam's sense of supremacy, entitlement, and triumphalism demands a free pass, and Islamic groups get that pass all too often through attempts to blackmail critics (and fence-sitters with questions) with accusations of racism, fascism, and "Islamophobia." That behavior, their agenda, and funding of the building project itself must be questioned, scrutinized, and exposed. It's the least that would be done for any massive, disruptive development project.
An update on this story. "Shock as Dudley mosque scheme revived," by Mark Mudie for the Express and Star, September 7 (thanks to Twostellas):
Muslim leaders are going ahead with a controversial multi-million pound mosque in Dudley town centre after abandoning hopes an alternative site will be found.
The Dudley Muslim Association says it has "no choice" but to prepare a full planning application for a mosque and community centre on land in Hall Street. Chairman Khurshid Ahmed said members could not wait any longer.
They have decided to pursue the Hall Street proposal, which is expected to cost up to £1 2million and for which outline planning permission has already been secured. Detailed plans must be in by July next year.
The news is a hammer blow to Dudley Council. It has been involved in months of delicate negotiations with the DMA over Hall Street, which has attracted huge protests.
The authority claimed in May the DMA had agreed to ditch the scheme in favour of a scaled down proposal in Castle Hill.
The Castle Hill proposal was later ruled out sparking a fresh search for new sites.
Mr Ahmed said today: "We have no choice but to go ahead and make a full planning application for Hall Street.
"I'm very disappointed the council have not been able to come up with a viable alternative which would have resolved the issue.
"We have reached the stage where it's all systems go. Once we start investing money and commit a budget to making the full application, it will be the point of no return."
Mr Ahmed added architects would be instructed "within weeks" while detailed plans would be submitted "in months".
The council rejected initial plans for the Hall Street mosque and community centre but they were granted on appeal.
A High Court judge upheld the appeal decision. Two petitions against the plan drew more than 50,000 signatures with residents saying the building would be out of keeping with Dudley's medieval character.
I would like to see Western nations agree to any futher building of mosques in the West only to the extent that non-Muslim houses of worship are allowed to be erected in Islamic nations. A one for one relationship, the refusal of which could function as a reason for banning further Muslim immigration to Western countries.
I know that precisely because the West has surpassed the Islamic world in virtually every area of human activity there is little incentive for Westerners to go to Muslim lands (though religious missionaries still would), while there exists a multitude of reasons why Muslims want to immigrate to Western lands, but nonetheless a reciprocity of sorts needs to be established and the Islamic world put on notice that religious tolerance is a two-way street. Of course, the laws of Western nations overwhelmingly were constructed years ago without Islam in mind, but it's overdue to start changing many of these laws precisely because Islam doesn't play fair, is so hypocritical and employs such a double standard. I mean Muslims have no shame about demanding the complete enforcement of their rights in the West while not feeling a shred of guilt or remorse for having draconian measures in their own lands against other religions and human rights in general. Deep shame on Islam and Muslims for this. It's part of the reason (but only part) why I have come to detest the Islamic faith.
Calling Dudley 'mediaeval' is probably over-stating it somewhat. However, the mosque, any mosque does not fit in with the cultural scene in any city or town.
I'd be asking why a small town needs a mosque this size (unless Dudley has grown exponentially since I was at college there, it's way too big) - and also asking where the money to build it is coming from.
i have aquaintances in dudley, not one non muslim, not one wants this monstrous eyesore, any where near them, i wondered how long it would be before they wheeled this out again,
much like in NY,(or in fact the whole of the US),muslims are only bringing, more mistrust/negative impressions of themselves, by pulling this stunt.
Their social "aggressive" association, is there again for all to see, even the dhimmis, muslim councillors, who work to worm this onto the books, will be exposed, oh yes, expect the usual suspects, to come out from under their
stones.
People in Dudley are tolerant, good people, who are sick and tired, of a whining, troublecausing, intolerant, minority, who vocally espouse their "superiority"?
This is terrible news. Such mosques have been springing up all over the UK in recent years, funded to a considerable extent by Saudi petrodollars. Every time someone fills up the tank of their SUV they ought to remember that they're funding global jihad.
The EDL have already held a number of protests in Dudley, and the last one turned unpleasant as this footage shows: http://durotrigan.blogspot.com/2010/07/videos-from-todays-edl-dudley.html
Although the local council announced the scrapping of the proposal following the EDL's first successful demo in early May this year, it was evident that it would keep getting put forward until it was accepted. Many within the EDL are now convinced that moves are afoot to make it a proscribed organisation and to ban its protests. The state is certainly hostile towards their aims and mode of expression, but whether or not a full ban will be implemented or otherwise is moot. Will the EDL return to Dudley now that plans for the mosque are being forwarded again?
Again the talk of "the point of no-return". Sounds like the same mentality as Ahmedinejad with his nuclear weapons program.
"Of course, the laws of Western nations overwhelmingly were constructed years ago without Islam in mind, but it's overdue to start changing many of these laws precisely because Islam doesn't play fair, is so hypocritical and employs such a double standard." --- from a posting above
Mr. Justice Jackson, in his dissent in Terminiello:
"There is danger that, if the court does not temper its doctrinaire logic with a little practical wisdom, it will convert the constitutional Bill of Rights into a suicide pact."
'.........the council have not been able to come up with a viable alternative.........'
How can there be a viable alternative?
No one wants a mosque close to where they live.
And guess why?
And yes, thats a wonderful idea, Weelington.
For each non-muslim prayer centre in a muslim-majority country, one mosque can be built in secular countries.
There are a number of mosques in Toronto, large structures with vast parking lots, with nary a car or person to be seen at any time of day. One wonders what the purpose is. And whether the congregation is so small that its coming and going escapes unnoticed. And if so, how such a small congregation could come up with the sums to buy the large tracts of land, put up the large building and then pay the utilities and taxes.
"Two petitions against the plan drew more than 50,000 signatures with residents saying the building would be out of keeping with Dudley's medieval character."
Yes, the mosque would drag Dudley back almost a thousand years before the medieval period!
Well as I write this a group at this moment is on CNN News Live accusing those of us who are against the building the mega Mosque as bigots long with Ingrid Manson. Once again we have clueless dhimmis who refuse acknowledge the truth that is Islam, they are sadly being mislead by people who in the end will have no tolerance for their religions.
With respect to the proposed mega-mosque in Dudley, here are words of wisdom from a recent essay entitled THE MUSLIM MOSQUE: A STATE WITHIN A STATE by Vijay Kumar
Mosques and Treason and Sedition Against the U.S.
Islam’s political documents and law call for the overthrow of our Constitution and our man-made laws, and therefore for the overthrow of our government, which by definition constitutes sedition and treason. The Islamic documents call for the overthrow of our government—a protector of religious freedom and human rights—through violence:
“I was ordered to fight all men until they say ‘there is no god but Allah.’” —Muhammad’s farewell address, 632
“I have been ordered to fight with the people till they say, ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.’” —Hadith Sahih Bukhari 4:52:196 Narrated Abu Huraira
“He who fights so that Allah’s Word (Islam) should be superior, then he fights in Allah’s cause.” —Hadith Sahih Bukhari 1:3:125 Narrated Abu Musa
“I asked the Prophet [Muhammad], ‘What is the best deed?’ He replied, ‘To believe in Allah and to fight for His Cause.’” —Hadith Sahih Bukhari 3:46:694 Narrated Abu Dhar
“And fight them till there is no more affliction (i.e. no more worshiping of others along with Allah)”. —Hadith Sahih Bukhari 6:60:40 Narrated Nafi’
“Soon shall We cast terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers.” —Quran 3.151
“I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.” —Quran 8:12
“Against them make ready your strength to the utmost of your power, including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies, and others besides, whom ye may not know, but whom Allah doth know.” —Quran 8:60
The Quran, as the constitution of Islam and Muslims, is diametrically opposite to the United States Constitution and Bill of Rights. According to Islam and Muslims, the Quran is divine law, uncorrupted and incorruptible, whereas the United States Constitution is man-made and is not infallible, and therefore is corrupt. The U.S. Constitution is the antithesis of the Quran; therefore Muslims have no obligation to obey it.
A mosque in the United States is a command and control center of a foreign political and military state that seeks the overthrow of our government, and an Imam in a mosque is a political and military representative of a foreign state that calls for the overthrow of the United States.
The laws of the United States provide specific criminal penalties for sedition and treason. These laws are not only applicable to those advocating and calling for the overthrow of our Constitution and our government; they are applicable to anyone who gives “aid or comfort” to such declared enemies of the United States, or who “organizes or helps or attempts to organize any society, group, or assembly of persons” so engaged. The terms “organizes” and “organize” extend to “the recruiting of new members, the forming of new units, and the regrouping or expansion of existing clubs, classes, and other units of such society, group, or assembly of persons.”
Mosques are just such units.
Vijay Kumar is a Republican candidate for U.S. Congress from Tennessee's 5th District www.kumarforcongress.com
Not to sound too suspicious, but perhaps these megamosques are being build (1) because they can with Saudi backing; and (2) to have them ready for the large number of worshippers once Islam has taken over.
Yes, I am Islamaphobic. While I have no problem with most Muslims [at least the ones who don't want to kill me], I do fear Islam. Any woman with knowledge of Islam should fear it. I would probably not be alive today if I were born in an Islamic country, or my life would be so circumscribed as to not be recognizable.
My heart is so dismayed about the prospects of Islamic culture demanding subjugation upon my culture that generations of my people and my family have fought so hard for in the freedoms granted to those that wish to usurp what we have now granted to those against us in the name of freedom.
I'm thinking that if they build the mosque and it turns into another Finsbury mosque, I'm sure they will get all the media exposure in the world and everybody will know who they are and what they stand for. Especially with all the local media attention. Muslim immigration to western europe was largely due to extremely liberal asylum laws that allowed just about anybody to claim they were going to be sentenced to death by their government if they return. In England, I'm pretty sure they have newer laws against preaching violence towards others like so many other of these asylum seekers that came to England in order to avoid persecution from their native muslim secular governments due to their desire to violently overthrow secularism and replace it with strict sharia.
Also, a big building like that cost money to upkeep. I'm sure that is going to be taken in consideration if they decide to build it. I doubt they will have a large enough congregation to keep up with the bills, perhaps it will be funded only by donations. I'm sure this is a publicity stunt to label oppositions as bigots and racist as I watched on CNN earlier today. I believe the a pastor said, "Any criticism of religion is doing violence to it." Something or something along those lines. If we can't level criticism without being labeled racist or bigot, how can Islam modernize, moderate, and help marginalize the extremist. I definitely agree with Muslims being able to build mosques, but the leaders of the mosques need to do more publicly, to condemn Islamic extremist like Hamas. Not blame the victims of terror attacks for being attacked in the first place. I think once they address peoples concerns about Islam, we will see a lessening of tensions regarding the construction of any mega mosque.
Variant on Mr. Justice Jackson's dissent in Terminiello ("There is danger that, if the court does not temper its doctrinaire logic with a little practical wisdom, it will convert the constitutional Bill of Rights into a suicide pact"),
The left is so open-minded that they are willing to let their brains fall out.
Which for the most part would be just fine with me, except far too many of their boneheaded decisions adversely affect me.
Thought you might be interested in this: Muslims protest Serbia's land 'confiscation' (land confiscated nearly 70 years ago and in govt use since then) to build kindergarten --what once was Muslim owned is always Muslim land. The Muslims argue that to build a kindergarten on this for more than 70 years government land is a “confiscation” that “represents a culmination of violence, discrimination and disrespect for basic Muslim rights,”
Having been to Dudley I can confirm it is a small but potentially lovely town. It is dominated by a hill with an ancient castle on the top.
The reason muslims buy up all this land and build a mosque in it, is so it becomes "wakf", land that is for ever muslim. In other words a permanent part of the ummah. they will never give it up! All muslim owned land becomes "wakf" and there are muslims who go round designating land wakf.
When I lived in East London, they took over a small mosque, enlarged it and started buying up adjoining houses. They would hang about outside our house, appraising it as if it was theirs.
ISLAMIZATION OF THE WEST AND THE REST OF NON-MUSLIM WORLD IS GOING ON IN EARNEST.
MUSLIMS WILL NEVER EVER RECIPROCATE WITH NON-MUSLIMS ON EQUAL FOOTING !
THEY WILL NEVER LET CHRISTIAN CHURCHES,HINDU OR BUDDHIST OR JEWISH TEMPLES IN THEIR LAND TO BUILD.
THEY WILL NEVER EVER LET OUR NON-MUSLIM GUYS MARRY THEIR WOMEN UNLESS THE GUY CONVERTS TO ISLAM.
THEY NEVER EVER WANT TO SALUTE EVEN THE FLAG OF THE KAFIR COUNTRY THEY LIVE IN.FORGET ABOUT OTHER THINS.
ARE WE ALL AWAKE AND ALERT TO THIS UNFAIR AND UNJUST ONE-SIDED JUSTIFICATIN AND WHINING OF MUSLIMS ?
THEY GREW MORE ARROGANT AND BRAZEN IN THEIR ACTS BECAUSE THEY ASSUME THAT THEY HAVE TWO GODS ON THEIR SIDE,ONE IS THEIR ALLAH AND THE SECOND IS HUGE AMOUNT OF PETRO-DOLLARS ! WITH MONEY THEY THINK THE WHOLE WORLD BELONGS TO THEM.
WAKE UP GUYS NOW,OR WE ARE ALL GOING TO FACE OUR SAD FATE !
.....and so MOHAMED's MURDERERS staked their claim to this community and everything around it as far as their eyes can see.......and they will carry their flag of conquest as far as they can from here....
How long will this go on?
The Dudley megamosque (has anyone yet said that it isn't really a mosque because of the community centre, as they have for the Ground Zero not-a-mosque project?) is on a prominent site. Hall Street is at the north east end of the site but the Dudley Southern Bypass runs along the long north west side of the site and the site is on an elevated platform. The megamosque with a proposed 65 foot minarette will be a very prominent landmark on the skyline, making a manifestly supremacist triumphal statement.
Neighbours at the Hall Street end are a veterinary practice (how long before there are objections to people bringing their dogs to these premises?) and an Ex-Servicemens Club (licensed premises for alcohol consumption).
The project cost was 18 million pounds sterling according to the Express & Star newspaper of May 3rd 2010. Has the cost really dropped to 12 million pounds? Perhaps they have enlisted the help of Sharif El-Gamal who seems to able to buy sites at knock-down prices.
I wonder if they know that the ground under Dudley is riddled with old Limestone mines that occasionally collapse causing "crown holes" to appear at the ground surface. That minarette, if built, may not be upright for long (deo volente).
Isn't Queen Elizabeth II designated "Defender of the Faith"?
I realize that she's been reduced to the level of a celebrity, having as much governmental power as Rowan Atkinson, but wouldn't it be nice to see her stand up and say something about the fact that her country's being conquered?
I guess I'm dreaming.
The current Dudley Metropolitan Borough Council unitary development plan:
http://www.dudley.gov.uk/environment--planning/planning/unitary-development-plan/unitary-development-plan/41-dudley/dtc2-xiv
Has the following remarks
Just what is going on? That Trindle Road/Claughton Road site is on the opposite side of the Dudley Southern Bypass road to the pictured mega-mosque site, closer to the town centre, and it says community centre not mosque and community centre. Was the original plan to build a community centre here and to refurbish the existing mosque on Castle Hill?
Personally, I'd rather see a muslim community centre on a separate site to a mosque. If there is a mosque on the same site the dhimmi constabulary will never apply for a search warrant for the community centre as they'd immediately be accused of violating a place of worship.
Much as it would pain me to see another edifice dedicated to the Pervert Prophet I really don't see how 12 million pounds is going to be much of a building. Certainly nothing approaching the artist rendering included with the article could be built with this kind of funding.
Nick:
It doesn't matter if they build it out of a cardboard box with taped-together soda-pop cans for a minaret. Britain is falling, and the Britons are quivering in fear that they'll be called nasty names for trying to protect their dwindling culture.
I would like to see Western nations agree to any futher building of mosques in the West only to the extent that non-Muslim houses of worship are allowed to be erected in Islamic nations. A one for one relationship, the refusal of which could function as a reason for banning further Muslim immigration to Western countries.
Wellington, politician can only dream of what Islamists had perfected over 1400 years... to have their brains hardwired to talk out of both-sides-of-their-mouths at the same time... and actually believe they mean it! A sensible solution to the Islam problem, as you suggest: banning Muslim immigration and ban further mosque constructions, makes all the sense to intelligent people. But that would short circuit their politico brains to do so.
The best we can hope for in our lifetime is outlawing Sharia, and then take it from there. Or maybe start with half-measures like the Swiss banning of those gross minars. France is banning the burqa. ALL nations must ban Sharia. Politicos be damned.
It will be, I believe, by bits and pieces, Battle_of Tours, that Westerners, including the more superficial of them like most politicians and media types, take measures to thwart Islam's many designs, most of which are antithetical to Western notions of liberty and equality under the law. I suspect every option but the right one will be opted for over and over again until all that's left is the correct course of action to take against the predatory, parasitical, ungracious, supremacist, liberty-crushing and, in general, disgusting ideology which is Islam.
Mankind is in for a quite a ride in this new century. I think by the end of it Islam will be on the trash heap of history but not before a very high price is paid in blood and money to put it there. Damn Mohammed. Damn Islam.
Build it and they will come. And they will fill.
"There are a number of mosques in Toronto, large structures with vast parking lots, with nary a car or person to be seen at any time of day. One wonders what the purpose is."
Thinking ahead and planning for the future, obviously.
The project details on the website of Horsley Huber Architects of Stafford
http://www.hhastudio.com/dudley_mosque1.htm
describes it as a Mosque and Community/Enterprise Centre with a value of 15 million pounds aterling.
The two buildings are to be "separately funded" and the community/enterprise centre is to be "managed" by the Dudley Muslim Association. Does that mean that they are expecting public funding for the second building?
In the outline planning application to Dudley MBC (Ref No. PO7/0053) the project is titled "community training and enterprise centre and mosque". The training and enterprise centre is to include some residential accomodation, a gym, lecture space, underground car park, a machine shop, and IT training facility. That's just about everything you would need for a command/communication/indoctrination centre and arsenal with car bomb assembly facility.