"We, as Muslims, need to tear a few pages out of the Quran"

This is just a short list of violent verses in Koran:

"Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them.” Koran 2:191
“Make war on the infidels living in your neighborhood.” Koran 9:123
“When opportunity arises, kill the infidels wherever you catch th...em.” Koran 9:5
“Any religion other than Islam is not acceptable.” Koran 3:85
“The Jews and the Christians are perverts; fight them.”... Koran 9:30
“Maim and crucify the infidels if they criticize Islam” Koran 5:33
“Punish the unbelievers with garments of fire, hooked iron rods, boiling water; melt their skin and bellies.” Koran 22:19
“The unbelievers are stupid; urge the Muslims to fight them.” Koran 8:65
“Muslims must not take the infidels as friends.” Koran 3:28
“Terrorize and behead those who believe in scriptures other than the Qur’an.” Koran 8:12
“Muslims must muster all weapons to terrorize the infidels.” Koran 8:60

In best Dick Van Dyke accent. Blimey!

Errata Sheet:

For "But I believe that there is something that endangers Americans and American soldiers even more: certain passages that--when read literally--pit Muslims against Americans and the West.

We, as Muslims, need to tear a few pages out of the Quran.

I believe the Qurans are being burnt because we, as Muslims, haven't dealt sincerely and intellectually with very serious issues that certain Quranic passages raise, particularly in the West."

Read "But I believe that there is something that endangers Americans and American soldiers even more: many passages uin the Qur'an, hundreds of Hadith, and many of the most important incidents in the life of Muhammad that--when read literally--pit Muslims against Americans and not only the West, but against all the rest -- that is against all non-Muslims, everywhere.

We, as Muslims, need to tear a great many pages out of the Quran. And we need, too, to re-examine the Sunnah -- that is, reexamine the writings which constitute the Sunnah, both Hadith and Sira, and completely excise or somehow interpret away many sayings and acts ascribed to the figure of Muhammad, for they spell permanent danger for all." non-Muslims.

I believe the Qurans are being burnt because we, as Muslims, haven't dealt sincerely and intellectually with very serious issues that certain Quranic passages raise, particularly in the West.

The Qur'an will never, ever, EVER change. It's as pure at it was 1500 years unlike some other religious texts we know of...

Tell this Asra Q. Nomani to shut up.

http://newstime.co.nz/pastor-terry-jones-burn-the-quran-vs-muslims-burn-americas-flag.html
“No Compulsion in Religion” 2:256 (early Mecca verse as Mr. “Love & Peace™” still wore a mask to woo new converts and his preaching was sugary) Abrogated (Naskh) “canceled” through the later (Medina) “Verse of the Sword” 9:5 “Kill the infidels wherever you find them.”

The Qur'an will never, ever, EVER change. It's as pure at it was 1500 years ago unlike some other religious texts we know of...

Tell this Asra Q. Nomani to shut up.

""Get Over the Quran Burning," by Asra Q. Nomani

Has Asra Q Nomani ever heard of the Muslim Fatwahs?...I Bet Islamic Empire can inform him on just how to be a Muslim...

Changing the book won't do a thing. It's the spirit that needs to be changed: mainly separation of church and state.

The Bible still enforces the Hijab (Corinthians 11:5-6), disriminates against infidels (Corinthians 2:15), and promotes slavery (7:21) but modern-day Christians have by and large ignored these biblical precepts, not because they decided to burn them from the Quran, but rather because they have become more secular, and learned to dismiss the cuckoo passages of the Bible.

Muslims need to demonstrate the same attitude, not by burning their book but rather by pushing for secular ideas. This will not necessarily desacralize their book but will push people to consider it in the same way most Christians in the world consider theirs: as a sort of 'holy book light.'

So I have to say that I disagree with you Robert. Changing the book will not do anything but inflame the passions of the radicals. What should be done is a cultural change that will push theology to the background and water down religious sentiment.

Consider the Baptist witch hunts in Nigeria or the evangelical anti-gay pogroms in Uganda. The problem here is more cultural than it is religious.

Sorry , this is off-topic but I don't know where else to post it .

From the Daily Mail today

In 2008, 13 people were convicted over their role in the attack.They were given sentences of up to eight years behind bars.

Although Henry, now 18, has recovered sufficiently to return to part-time education, he still suffers from short-term memory loss.

Today’s review, which involved speaking to the school, police, council and other organisations, slams the establishment for failing to tackle the growing tensions between Muslim and white teenagers.

It claims opportunities to intervene to address escalating issues were missed – even after a riot on the playing fields.
And it says the school was not adequately prepared when about 20 Asian pupils from central Swindon joined the rural school in September 2005 – less than two months after the 7/7 London bombings.

Their enrollment had been designed to improve community relations
................

A British boy was attacked by a group of muslims and seriously hurt .( hit with a hammer if I remember correctly )
Look at the last line of what I've copied from the Mail
" The muslims were brought into the school to improve community relations !"
Our government's attempts at social engineering has
some disatrous results !

It takes one to know one.
I have a friend, Mudar Zahran, a Palestinian-Jordanian who has recently had a couple op-eds published in jpost.com - I had a letter published praising him. He described the violent intolerance towards the Palestinians in Lebanon by Shiite groups such as Amal and Hizbullah, whose leaders then globtrot, trumpeting their concerns for the Palestinians, claiming it's all Israel's fault, and responsibility. He sees through the hypocrisy. He actually praised Israel and rhetorically said of his fellow Arabs: "With friends like those, who needs enemies?"
Mudar used to work as an economist for the US State Department and now works as a researcher at the U of Bedfordshire, UK.
The only way for there to be real change, is if the Muslims themselves do it.

http://schnellmann.org/death_for_apostasy.html
When you don't belive just ONE word of the Quran
(Word of God Allah), you can be killed for apostasy in Q 4:89

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc/engagement/resources/texts/muslim/quran/004.qmt.html#004.089
"... But if they turn renegades ("reject faith", leave Islam), seize them and slay them wherever ye find them"

One thing that Muslims wishing to move away from Islam's violent heritage could do is revise the doctrine of abrogation. The doctrine of abrogation is not of Allah is it? It is a man-made dogma - following on disputes about how to interpret contradictory verses. So, I see no reason in principle why radical scholars couldn't produce a new doctrine of "priority" - perhaps asserting that where Muslims enjoy religious freedom the later verses do not apply, the original more pacific verses (few though they are) take priority - and this shows what a wonderful book the Koran is - suitable for all occasions LOL.

That would be progress would it not?

Good to see a Muslim trying to reform the religion, but as you can see in this thread, Islamists like Islamic Empire will halt any such effort. IE and his terrorist comrades actually like the passages of mayhem and murder, because without these, the truly vile essence of Muhammad would not be captured.

1)Illiterate thief goes into a cave
2)Starts telling crazy story
3)???
4)Prophet!

It really is very hesitant, almost apologetic ...but ultimately to Muslims because their attention is being drawn to verses in the Quran that offend the Infidel.

"Symbolic insult", "certain passages", "certain problematic verses" etc, and so pages are to be torn out symbolically by simply closing our eyes to them. I am afraid it will not be more than a symbol to please the Infidel, nothing more than a bridge building veil drawn over the offending bits to make them decently invisible and we all pretend they never existed. Yeah, sure.

I can't see there will be much of a difference: the awkward verses are being kept back as it is, almost to the point of denial.

"Now, why are voices like this so rare among Muslims in the West?"

Because they know very well that if they do voice such opinions, their fellow-Moslems will likely kill them. Islamic terrorism is directed as much at other Moslems -- to keep them in line -- as it is at non-Moslems.

With that being said, wouldn't you concur that you would not be following true Islam if you removed what many believe are the main goals of the faith? How could a person, with a clear conscience, remain a believer knowing what is contained in the Koran. Removing parts of it does not make it worthy. It sais what it sais.

A few pages? The Quran needs to be abandoned in its entirety.

Frazpo -

If Muslims reversed priority, they could still cling to the ultimate goal of worlwide Shariah, but if you remove the threat of violence from Islam, really do we have much to be afraid of? Islam in my view would never win many adherents in the world unless it had the backing of and the attractant of violence. It would just be one more whacky religion - like Mormonism or Scientology...a very big one admittedly, but I think we could handle Islam as a cultural force as long as it was "defanged" as someone once said.

We, as Muslims, need to tear a few pages out of the Quran--symbolically, at least, by rejecting literal adherence to certain problematic verses....

SHHH...Don't let Allah hear you talking like that, he does not like anyone interpreting or ignoring his words, it also makes you an apostate according to sharia...He can get real nasty about that...And who gets to decide what the problematical verses are, and how many are you willing to tear out or ignore?

"We, as Muslims, need to tear a few pages out of the Quran...."

More than a few, really....
Still, it wold be a start. As they say, the longest journey begins with the first step.

I posted this a couple years back, but its time to re-post it

Let us consider the hypothetical situation that ALL Muslims at present living in the West, accepted the call to clean up their communities of extremism. They even went further and made the changes in their teachings of the Koran and the jihad. Such an outcome would no doubt come as a relief to many on this site, the government, the MSM, and elsewhere. But I counter, that all such changes were being done merely to protect the ummah while it grows at ever-increasing pace in the West. Once a near majority is achieved, that future generation of Muslims will simply revoke any changes, and return to the traditions of the unchanging and unchangeable Koran i.e., the canonical texts of Islam that cannot be changed, but only protected when under duress. That future generation of Muslims in the UK and the USA will even praise this generation of Muslims for having done what was necessary to protect Islam.

"We, as Muslims, need to tear a few pages out of the Quran...."

More than a few, really....
Still, it would be a start.

"We, as Muslims, need to tear a few pages out of the Quran"
...................

I was going to say, "wait for the Fatwa on this woman's head"—but then I remembered where I had heard her name before. The phenomenon of death Fatwas is not new to Asra Q. Nomani.

Many may remember author Sherry Jones' brainless apologia of a novel about the "Prophet" Muhammed—including a romanticizing of his "marriage" to his child-bride, Aisha—"The Jewel of Medina".

Despite her white-washed and sycophantic portrayal of Islam, many Muslims realized that non-Muslims would find the subject matter queasy at best, and so slammed Jones and her publishers as "slandering" Islam.

This, from the UK Independent, from two years ago:

The American public first learnt about the ruckus from a carefully researched article in the Wall Street Journal, whose author, Asra Q Nomani, did not hide her disapproval of what Professor Spellberg had done [in attacking Jones and her work]. "This saga upsets me as a Muslim, and as a writer who believes that fiction can bring Islamic history to life in a uniquely captivating and humanising way," she wrote.

Sherry Jones' new publishers—after Random House dropped her out of panic over Muslim violence—was Britain's Gibson Square. Gibson Square had their offices firebombed, and the publisher had to go into hiding.

So—Asra Nomani must know what she's facing here. I hope she stays safe from her vicious co-religionists.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/the-making-of-a-fatwa-946117.html

Incidentally, Nomani is an American Muslim convert who, despite her obvious intelligence, was almost completely ignorant about the religion when she "reverted". For instance, she was shocked to learn that she needed a male guardian to go on the Hadj.

She has now made it a quest to institute a "gender Jihad" in Islam. I wish her lots of luck on that one, as well.

"A Gender Jihad for Islam's Future"

http://www.feminist.com/ourinnerlives/features_nomani.html

Many people are seduced into becoming Muslims before they know much -- or know enough - about Islam. Some of them then find out a lot more. Among that number, some choose to stay with Islam -- see Ingrid Mattson -- and some choose to leave, and others think that they can spare themselves the embarrassment of admitting that they made a colossal error, and spare themselves possible condign punishment as well, which they may fear, if they continue to call themselves Muslims and work to "change" -- forlorn hope, that particular change -- the Total Belief-System from within. They can't do it, but it takes them quite a while to find out.

... literal interpretations of the Quran that are used to sanction domestic violence, terrorism, militancy, and suicide bombings in the name of Islam.

Take the pages with offending verses on them outta the Ko-Ran and you'll end up with a 20 page book. The whole system, from the bottom up, is about world takeover by Moslems.

The Koran says what it means and means what it says. There's not a lotta room for interpretation of its text cuz the text is declarative, prescriptive, corrective, directive and, yes, literal in its construction.

It can't be fixed cuz it doesn't wanna be fixed. It's not fixable.

*** 4:142 ***

Surely the hypocrites strive to deceive Allah, and He shall requite their deceit to them.

"They can't do it, but it takes them quite a while to find out."

This defeatist attitude is what led Petain to give in to the Nazis. I know many moderate Muslims who are doing admirable work (see Malek Chebel, Abdelwahhab Meddeb or Gamal Al-Banna) and they should be encouraged in their fight, not dismissed by smug cynicism.

You know, I'm thinking it over. And getting enthused with the idea of the book burning. If not doing this, shws that we're cowards and afraid of the islamic, Then Bros, I say, 'BURN 'EM ALL!

What fun! In all the hustory of islam, it's never been done.
Humanity has always had defend itself from this plaque, and hasn't had a change or time to do it.

And if the scum riot, then the world, and the people here, will wake up! Wake to see that the islamics are NOT peacul at all!!

Ok! I'm in, my adrenaline is racing!!

As with all Muslim reformers, one must conclude that Asra Nomani is either:

1) ignorant of the basics of Islam

2) schizophrenically damaged

3) lying to us.

There is no fourth alternative to explain why she can write, as she does on her blog:

...excluding women [from the main prayer section of the mosque where men pray] ignores the rights the prophet Muhammad gave them in the 7th century and represents "innovations" that emerged after the prophet died.

and:

Fourteen centuries ago the community that the prophet Muhammad created was one in which women fought side by side with men, prayed side by side with men. And it’s one that we have to look back to, to shape our modern values.

and, in admiringly quoting another fishy Muslim "reformer", Reza Aslan:

It’s time, Aslan argues, to “cleanse Islam of its new false idols—bigotry and fanaticism—worshipped by those who have replaced Muhammad’s original vision of tolerance and unity with their own ideas of hatred and discord.” It will take time, he acknowledges. “But the cleansing is inevitable, and the tide of reform cannot be stopped. The Islamic Reformation is already here. We are living in it.”

and, in a Washington Post article about her where she told the reporter about her father:

Earlier her father had said, "Muhammad was one of the greatest feminists. Islam first gave rights to women 1,400 years ago. . . . When I see Islam today and the way people behave towards women, I am very sad. I am for women's rights, respect, women's equality. Islam teaches that."

and, after having the experience of being humiliated by being forced to enter the mosque by the back way which her own father built in Morgantown, Virginia, she recounts the sources of her resolve to stand up for herself:

On the eleventh evening of Ramadan, I battled my doubts, searching for inspiration. Three historical figures gave me courage, clarity, and vision: Civil rights icon Rosa Parks, feminist suffragist Alice Paul, and the prophet Muhammad.

http://asranomani.com/Writings.aspx

About the three choices I listed:

1) Is Asra Nomani ignorant of the basics of Islam? It seems exceedingly unlikely for three cumulative reasons:

a) she is Muslim

b) she is intelligent

c) she has made a career of delving into and elucidating issues surrounding the problems of Islam in the modern world.

2) Is Asra Nomani schizophrenic? Well, if we eliminate #1 and #3 (that she is practicing taqiyya), she would have to be. I don't know about others in the still inchoate anti-Islam movement (including those who don't even realize there exists an inchoate anti-Islam movement), but I do not wish to have schizophrenics as allies in the fight.

And besides, as I argued in my previous comment above, even if she is schizophrenically sincere in her addled notions about Islamic reform including an admirable Muhammad, her very presence and activity serves to facilitate the stealth jihad.

Conclusion:

Are we this desperate that we have to grasp at such crumbs -- crumbs that may well not even be bread, but rat poison?

Dear Paul Hoffman: Forgive me for addressing my previous missive to you. It was meant as a reply to Cornelius. I had originally replied to your effective comment to "Islamic Emprie" and then deleted it (because I didn't think it was up to snuff) without revamping a direct reply to Cornelius. My apologies.

After having read the koran and read the hadiths I don't think Islam can be reformed only abandoned. Unlike the Bible the Koran has no golden rule, does not condemn theft, murder, stealing, lying, fornication etc.

The Bible tells husbands to love thier wives as they love themselves. It says they exercise headship over thier wives as christ is the head of the congregation (IE show your wives love, honor, patience, dignity, respect, be willing to die for them.), Do not exasperate your children but train them in a way beneficial to them.

Christ encouraged his disciples to make new disciples through a world wide teaching work.

Muhamed taught conversion by the sword. Kill, conquer, or convert. He had no golden rule other than all booty belongs to allah and his apostle, he was a pirate, a polygamist, approved temporary marraiges to whores(fornication), treated women and children like property (using his own adoptive son as a human shield more than once.) He said muslims who do not fight and spill blood in allahs cause were diseased.

Rather than say as Paul did God is not partial but in every nation the man that loves god is approved by him, Mohammed declared Jews and christians to be people created destined for hell they are pigs and apes.

I do not see anything at all redeemable in Islamic scripture, I hope I am wrong, But I doubt even bill clinton has enough spin to make the Koran a force of good.

Why not consider Jesus Christ?

Asra Nomani strikes me as a spiritual seeker--someone who recognizes there's more to life than what the empiricists can measure. Like Augustine of Hippo back at the end of the fourth century A.D., she knows there's a void in every human soul that only God can fill. Maybe she was drawn to Islam by some of the more attractive passages in the Sufi miystics, or even by the aesthetics of tile arabesque or the azzan (yes, it is musical--for I've heard it before--even if it confesses folly).

As a convert to Islam, Nomani is probably waking up to how much of Islam reflects the corrupt, fallen nature of man rather than the breath of God.

And here we may address Frederick's contempt for Christianity.

Sorry, Fred, but it was conversion to the 18th century version of Evangelicalism that got Wilberforce spearheading the movement to end slavery.

And, yes, I Corinthians 7:21 tells slaves to remain such if that was their condition when called--although Frederick misses the latter part of the verse in which Paul tells them that they should go ahead and gain freedom if they have such an opportunity. He also completely neglects Paul's letter to Philemon, where Paul, the prisoner, writes to the Master Philemon to receive the returned runaway Onesimus as not only a slave, but as a beloved brother, who had become a help to Paul in his captivity. I forget which of the post-Apostolic fathers (Clement? Ignatius? Polycarp?) mentions Onesimus as carrying on as a Christian leader. Maybe Master Philemon took Paul's advice? So, something of the old, manumittable, ancient Mediterranean kind of slavery rather than Antebellum South racial/plantation slavery's at work here.

And, if Frederick thinks John Brown was an American anti-slavery martyr, he's praising a guy who was a little too fanatical for even Kepha's tastes--a Paul Hill from an earlier age?

And, as we grew MOST secular, advanced secularist thinkers always looked at the slave-labor projects of Stalin's Russia and Mao's China and told us that the future "worked"--at least until someone did the math and realized that the most the White Sea Canal could carry were pleasure craft, while Mao barely repaired war damage, and did in a few tens of millions of his own people doing it. So much for a slew of secular worthies from G.B. Shaw down to Michael Moore.

As for distinguishing believer and infidel, whaddaya think the PeeCee MultiCulties are doing when they tar even people like Hugh and Wellington as "bigots"? What of all the "justice" thundering condemnation and relegating of the other guy's group "to the dust-heap or ash can of history" done by various political movements? Doesn't that sound just a wee bit like a secualrized version of the Last Judgment? And, it was the none-too-devout Hannah Arendt who said that the philosophies of the 19th and 20th century, in trying to make heaven on earth, did a pretty good job creating an earthly hell instead.

Whether we like it or not, we're all parts of wider groups which, much as they try, are never universally human, but inevitably out to divide the world into "us" and "them". And, what does this say about the "us" chosen by the contemporary Left when it spits on Christ at every opportunity, but accommodates Islam?

I'd urge Asra Nomani and others to consider a faith that offers forgiveness of sins through Christ's once-and-for-all sacrifice--one that never again has to be repeated (my thought for Eid). Also one that not only promises victory over death, but also shows it in Christ's resurrection (and, since Frederick was disparaging First Corinthians, Paul himself says, in ch. 15, that if Christ was not truly risen, we all ought to shut up and go home).

No, we Christians have not ditched the "cuckoo" passages of the Bible. Some of us have come to realize that our modern sensibility and latitudinarianism have left us morally and spiritually naked when the barbarians are not at the gate, but inside it. And it is those "cuckoo" prophets and apostles of old whose message of divine justice and grace that we need to hear anew.

Awesome, interesting thread and posts.

Yes, Asra Nomani is still a totally worthless ally as she stands now. No, it does not seem that Islam can be reformed. But what is it that can influence the muddled thinking of the PCMC's and the ignorants about Islam in our society?

Since they accept Islam in our society and defend Muslims against democracy-loyalists like us, they seem to assume that Islam and Democracy can be somehow combined in a persons mind.

So perhaps it is logical if we ask the likes of Asra Nomani if she can produce a Movement of Democratic Muslims, now that she already is out on a limb, and has very likely already put herself in harm's way, by the article above. Now that we know her a little bit better thanks to Gravenimage.

To me it looks logical if a movement for totally Democratic Muslims were once upon a time started. If only to confound or convince the PCMC's and Islam-ignorants, who all along assumed Islam presented no problem to Democratic societies and was not the blockading factor in Islamic countries working against real democratization there.

If such a Democratic Islamic movement existed then Muslims would be presented with a choice, and after that they can no longer argue that anti-theocratic-Islam statements are racist or unjustly discriminating.

Or they finally could state honestly that they really are theocratic anti-democratic in their hearts and minds. And that would leave their PCMC, Islam-ignorant defenders with a lot less excuses.

I like to add that answers the valid concern of DP111 and Hesperado only in that I too still don't trust Muslims all the way, even if they were to declare themselves Democratic.

But the choice that should be presented to Western Muslims should in my vision not be a superficial, idle one; we must ask Muslims not to just choose loyalty for all Democratic laws and principles, but stipulate that when Islamic laws and principles are in contradiction with them, the choice must be Democratic over Islamic.

My aim is to create a situation where Muslims MUST declare either to be for Democracy OR Theocracy. And when the landscape is settled between those 2 sorts of Muslims (if there indeed ARE those 2 sorts), then I think the infidel masses and parties, despite widespread taqqiya, will yet see more clearly the threat and the blockade of Islam to the secular Democratic system and vote in more people like Geert Wilders.

Why do people keep saying Asra Nomani is a convert to Islam? She was born into an Indian Muslim family and she claims to be the descendant of some big whig Islamic scholar...

To islamic empire
you said: The Qur'an will never, ever, EVER change. It's as pure at it was 1500 years

It has not existed for 1500 years but since it was written, re-written, edited, re-edited, and eventually printed two hundred years after your false prophet soared to paradise on his trusty winged steed, is has and will always be 'pure' crap. As for the corruption of the Bible and Torah, PROVE IT. You are a brainwashed moron, a typical muslim idiot. If you want to debate, let's hear some cogent arguments to back up your vacuous comments. The Satanic qur'an might never change but you can bet it will eventually become very scarce in the civilized world, along with the brainwashed zombies who believe it.

Every time this is discussed, it has the feel of the first steps of a new sect. The followers of "pure" islam will never abandon the qur'an for this new "sects" revised version. Perhaps in a few thousand years, if the world can hold out against the current conquest push of islam, Time is not in favor of a wait and see position.

The faith of islam is in need of a deformation.

I tried this "tear a few bad pages out of the Koran" deal -and ended up with empty book covers... -and a big pile of spitballs on the floor.

The covers are very nice, though.

Shiny and all...

I'm thinking ~ origami.

I need some help here. I am looking for the following websites:

catholicwatch.org
protestantwatch.org
jewishwatch.org
buddhistwatch.org
taoistwatch.org
hindwatch.org

Looking, looking looking for these websites so I can vent my anger and frustration at their barbaric traditions. when I find them I will also let loose on their treatment of women and children too. Just wait until I get a chance to speak to these websites about their wanting to kill me for having an opinion that is contrary to theirs. Oh yeah, just wait until I get the chance to burn your holy books. What will you do about it - huh? What, nothing.... just laugh at me. So, you won't kill me? What sort of crazy religion are you if you don't threaten death with those who blaspheme. Are you tolerant and compassionate? I give up. I will look elsewhere for some sort of violent reaction...

Islam, Moh, where are you? Come on out wherever you are? Time to fly off your horse and get grounded now.But please, if you do show your face, then let me see you smile and let's hug each other first.... and then you can get all nasty and threaten to kill me......but one wee hug ok?

Did he say "tear a few pages out of the Koran" in the sense that these verses should be disregarded(just as Christians and Jews do for those verses permitting slavery, beating wives and polygamy) or doing so literally?

Terry

The Qur'an will never, ever, EVER change. It's as PUREat it was 1500 years...

a) what do you mean by pure? (is vague, does not mean anything...be more precise please)
b) you are showing your ignorance to everyone here: Every islamic scholar knows that there were several different copies of the Qur'an out there: here a quote:

Find more here: http://islaminitsownwords.blogspot.com/2010/06/sources-of-quran.html

http://islaminitsownwords.blogspot.com/

Echnaton

They only way for Islam to progress is for people like Asra to become the majority and the the Islamic Empires of this world to be gradually sidelined in the way neo-Nazis, Fascists and white supremacists have been in the West. Until the Islamic supremacists lose their popular appeal (something which is a long way from happening) we're never going to have a peaceful world. It's not us non-Muslims who are going to get through to Muslims, it's Asra. Although she does run the risk of being accused of apostasy. There's no easy answer.

Please read this and also comment:
http://mightyrubble.blogspot.com/?spref=tw

Thomas_h:

As a matter of curiosity, which Communist dictatorship were you raised under?

As for "corny cant", it was fed wholesale to American adolescents who fancied themselves "innaleckchuls" when I was growing up.

A welcome breath of fresh air that needs to morph into a level 5 hurricane in the Muslim community, world wide.

But moderate Muslims must realize that their fundamentalist brethren have dug a deep pit of distrust that envelops all of the Islamic faithful given their demonstrated penchant for the practice of taqiyya, "precautionary dissimulation or deception and keeping one's convictions secret" and kitman, "mental reservation and dissimulation or concealment of malevolent intentions," these definitions from Daniel Pipes: (http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/25320).

Climbing out from the seventh to the twenty first century will be a long, hard, dangerous slog that some think is an insurmountable goal without a complete reformation and rejection of many of the enshrined tenets and a modern re-embodiment of their sacred prophet and God, Mohammad and Allah, respectively, a process strictly forbidden on pain of death given Islam's current form.

A monumental Catch 22.

Now, why are voices like this so rare among Muslims in the West?

Given the widespread use of taqiyya, how can this voice be trusted?

OK, let's reiterate that the Qu'ran does indeed contain verses that don't comport with educated, egalitarian ideals and values. For a Muslim to wean his or her mind from the Qu'ran is a noble act and a liberation from vicious nonsense. But it is an error to conclude that "Qu'rans are being burnt because we, as Muslims, haven't dealt sincerely and intellectually with very serious issues that certain Quranic passages raise, particularly in the West."

We can lay our arguments about God and Islam on the table, but that in no way justifies or even explains book burning.

The current threat of Qu'rans being burnt come from a self-promoting moonbat with a genius for publicity who has catapulted himself into foolish fame out of all proportion to his worth and stature. Pastor Jones' KKK tactics tell on him and anyone who would emulate his example has some serious soul-searching to do.

I am very far from welcoming Islam into the United States, but when any person abandons dialog and descends to burning a book -- ANY book -- then that person has relinquished human dignity in favor of becoming a mindless pawn no different from the Nazis, the KKK, ant-cartoon jihadists and the rest of their swinish ilk. Intimidation, violence and physical degradation are filthy artifices inhabited by poor minds and slovenly souls.