Why do Muslims wage jihad?

You can find them all over the Internet: windy, pseudo-intellectual diatribes purporting to establish that I misunderstand and misrepresent Islamic teaching about jihad. Fairly often I receive emails asking me to answer these farragos, but I think sufficient refutation lies in the obvious fact that so many Muslims worldwide misunderstand Islam in exactly the same way that I do. Ah, but there you go again, say the critics: you’re committing “selection bias,” emphasizing the views of Islam held by “extremists,” and all the bad sections of the Qur’an, in prejudice to all the marvelous moderate Muslims and wonderful passages of the Islamic holy book.

And here indeed is an explanation of jihad from an “extremist,” Muhammad Al-Munajjid, a Saudi Wahhabi sheikh. I offer it here because of its closely argued Qur’anic exposition, with an invitation to Muslim “moderates”: show where al-Munajjid is wrong on Islamic grounds. The world wants to see you refute the version of Islam of the “extremists.” The “extremists,” after all, aren’t getting their ideas from me, but from the likes of al-Munajjid. So instead of spending all your time trying to prove me wrong, why not spend some time trying to prove them wrong — if, that is, you really oppose what they’re doing? Go ahead. We’re watching, and waiting.

“The reason why jihaad is prescribed,” from Islam QA (thanks to Axel):

Why do Muslims wage jihad?.

Praise be to Allaah.

Allaah has enjoined jihad for His sake upon the Muslims, for the great benefits that result from that and because of the harm caused by abandoning jihad, some of which are mentioned in Question no. 34830.

Some of the reasons why jihad for the sake of Allaah is prescribed in Islam are as follows:

1 – The main goal of jihad is to make the people worship Allaah alone and to bring them forth from servitude to people to servitude to the Lord of people. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allaah) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allaah (Alone). But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zaalimoon (the polytheists, and wrong-doers)”

[al-Baqarah 2:193]

“And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism, i.e. worshipping others besides Allaah), and the religion (worship) will all be for Allaah Alone [in the whole of the world]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allaah), then certainly, Allaah is All-Seer of what they do”

[al-Anfaal 8:39]

Ibn Jareer said:

So fight them until there is no more shirk, and none is worshipped except Allaah alone with no partner or associate, and trials and calamities, which are disbelief and polytheism, are lifted from the slaves of Allaah on earth, and religion is all for Allaah alone, and so that obedience and worship will be devoted to Him alone and none else.

Ibn Katheer said: Allaah commands us to fight the kuffaar so that there will be no fitnah, i.e., shirk, and the religion will all be for Allaah alone, i.e., the religion of Allaah will prevail over all other religions.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: –I have been commanded (by Allaah) to fight the people until they testify that there is no god but Allaah and that Muhammad is the Messenger of Allaah, and they establish regular prayer and pay zakaah, then if they do that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning will be with Allaah.” Narrated by al-Bukhaari (24), Muslim (33).

And he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I have been sent just before the Hour with the sword, so that Allaah will be worshipped alone with no partner or associate.”

Narrated by Ahmad, 4869; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani in Saheeh al-Jaami’, 2831.

This purpose of jihad was present in the minds of the Sahaabah (may Allaah be pleased with them) during their battles with the enemies of Allaah. Al-Bukhaari (2925) narrated that Jubayr ibn Hayyah said: ‘Umar sent people to all the regions to fight the mushrikeen… so ‘Umar recruited us and appointed al-Nu’maan ibn Muqarrin to lead us. When we were in the land of the enemy, the representative of Chosroes came out to us with forty thousand troops. An interpreter stood up and said: “Let one of you speak to me.” Al-Mugheerah said: “Ask whatever you want.” He asked, “Who are you?” He (al-Mugheerah) said: “We are some people from among the Arabs. We used to lead a harsh and miserable life, sucking on animal skins and date stones because of hunger, wearing clothes made of camel and goat hair, worshipping trees and rocks. While we were in this state, the Lord of the heavens and the earth, exalted be His name and glorified be His greatness, sent to us a Prophet from amongst ourselves, whose father and mother we know. Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him), commanded us to fight you until you worship Allaah alone or pay the jizyah. Our Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us the message from our Lord, that whoever among us is killed will go to Paradise to enjoy delights such as no one has ever seen, and whoever among us is left will become your master.”

This is the truth that the Sahaabah and leaders of the Muslims proclaimed in their military campaigns.

Rab’i ibn ‘Aamir said, when Rustam the commander of the Persian armies asked him, “Why have you come?”: “Allaah has sent us to bring forth whomsoever He wills from the worship of man to the worship of Allaah.

When ‘Uqbah ibn Naafi’ reached Tangiers, he rode his horse into the water until the water was up to its chest, then he said: “O Allaah, bear witness that I have done my utmost, and were it not for this sea I would have travelled throughout the land fighting those who disbelieve in You, until none is worshipped except You.”

2 – Repelling the aggression of those who attack the Muslims.

The scholars are unanimously agreed that repelling the aggression of those who attack the Muslims is fard ‘ayn (an individual obligation) upon those who are able to do that.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And fight in the way of Allaah those who fight you, but transgress not the limits. Truly, Allaah likes not the transgressors”

[al-Baqarah 2:190]

“Will you not fight a people who have violated their oaths (pagans of Makkah) and intended to expel the Messenger while they did attack you first? Do you fear them? Allaah has more right that you should fear Him if you are believers”

[al-Tawbah 9:13]

3 – Removing fitnah (tribulation)

Fitnah is of different types:

(i) That which is caused by the kuffaar who persecute the Muslims or apply pressure to them to make them give up their religion. Allaah has commanded the Muslims to fight in jihad in order to save those who are weak and oppressed. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And what is wrong with you that you fight not in the Cause of Allaah, and for those weak, ill-treated and oppressed among men, women, and children, whose cry is: “Our Lord! Rescue us from this town whose people are oppressors; and raise for us from You one who will protect, and raise for us from You one who will help”

[al-Nisa’ 4:75]

(ii) The fitnah of the kuffaar themselves and their preventing others from hearing and accepting the truth. That is because the kaafir systems corrupt the innate nature and reason of people, and make them get used to worshipping and submitting to things other than Allaah, getting addicted to alcohol, wallowing in the mire of sexual licence, and losing all characteristics of virtue. Whoever is like that can rarely tell truth from falsehood, good from evil, right from wrong. So jihad is prescribed in order to remove those obstacles that prevent people from hearing and accepting the truth and getting to know it.

4 – Protecting the Islamic state from the evil of the kuffaar.

Hence the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) ordered that the leaders of the kuffaar be killed, those who incited the enemies against the Muslims, such as the Jews Ka’b ibn al-Ashraf and Ibn Abi’l-Haqeeq.

Another aspect of jihad is to protect the borders against the kuffaar. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) encouraged that as he said: “Guarding the border for one day for the sake of Allaah is better than this world and everything in it.” Al-Bukhaari, 2678.

5 – Frightening the kuffaar, humiliating them and putting them to shame.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Fight against them so that Allaah will punish them by your hands and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of a believing people,

And remove the anger of their (believers’) hearts. Allaah accepts the repentance of whom He wills. Allaah is All-Knowing, All-Wise”

[al-Tawbah 9:14-15]

“And make ready against them all you can of power, including steeds of war (tanks, planes, missiles, artillery) to threaten the enemy of Allaah and your enemy”
[al-Anfaal 8:60]

Hence it is prescribed to fight in a manner that will strike terror into the heart of the enemy.

Shaykh al-Islam [Ibn Taymiyah – may Allaah have mercy on him] was asked whether it is permissible for a soldier to wear silk or gold or silver when fighting or when the envoys of the enemy come to the Muslims.

He replied:

Praise be to Allaah. With regard to wearing silk in order to frighten the enemy, there are two scholarly views, the more correct of which is that it is allowed. The soldiers of Syria wrote to ‘Umar ibn al-Khattaab saying: “When we met the enemy we saw that they had covered their weapons with silk and we found that this struck terror in our hearts.” ‘Umar wrote back to them saying: “You should cover your weapons as they do.” And wearing silk is a kind of showing off, and Allaah likes showing off at the time of fighting, as it is narrated in al-Sunan that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “There is a kind of showing off that Allaah likes, and a kind of showing off that Allaah hates. The showing off that Allaah likes is when a man shows off at the time of war. The kind of showing off that Allaah hates is showing off for the purpose of pride and boasting.” On the day of Uhud, Abu Dujaanah al-Ansaari showed off among the ranks, and the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “This is a kind of walking that Allaah hates except in this situation.” Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 28/17

6 – Exposing the hypocrites

Allaah says (Interpretation of the meaning):

“But when a decisive Soorah (explaining and ordering things) is sent down, and fighting (Jihaad — holy fighting in Allaah’s Cause) is mentioned (i.e. ordained) therein, you will see those in whose hearts is a disease (of hypocrisy) looking at you with a look of one fainting to death”

[Muhammad 47:20]

At times of ease and plenty, the Muslims may be joined by those who seek to make worldly gains, and they do not want to make the word of Allaah prevail over the word of kufr. These people may conceal their real nature from many of the Muslims, and the most effective means of exposing them is jihad, because jihad means sacrificing oneself but these hypocrites are only indulging in hypocrisy in order to save themselves.

Exposing the hypocrites was one of the major purposes that Allaah wanted the believers to achieve on the day of Uhud.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“Allaah will not leave the believers in the state in which you are now, until He distinguishes the wicked from the good”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:179]

Ibn al-Qayyim said:

This means: Allaah will not leave you in the state in which you are, where the believers are indistinguishable from the hypocrites, until the believers are made distinct from the hypocrites, as they were distinguished by the test on the day of Uhud, and Allaah will not disclose to you the unseen matters by which the one group is distinguished from the other, for they are distinguished from one another in the knowledge of the unseen that He has, but He wants to distinguish them from one another in a clear and visible manner, so that His unseen knowledge will become known and visible.

7 – Purifying the believers of their sins and ridding them thereof

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And so are the days (good and not so good), that We give to men by turns, that Allaah may test those who believe, and that He may take martyrs from among you. And Allaah likes not the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers).

And that Allaah may test (or purify) the believers (from sins) and destroy the disbelievers.

Do you think that you will enter Paradise before Allaah tests those of you who fought (in His Cause) and (also) tests those who are As-Saabiroon (the patient)?”
[Aal ‘Imraan 3:140-142]

8 – Acquiring booty

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “I have been sent ahead of the Hour with the sword so that Allaah will be worshipped alone, and my provision has been placed in the shade of my spear, and humiliation has been decreed for those who go against my command, and whoever imitates a people is one of them.” Narrated by Ahmad, 4869; Saheeh al-Jaami’, 2831.

Al-Haafiz said:

This hadeeth indicates that war booty is permissible for this ummah, and that the provision of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) has been placed in war booty and not in other kinds of earnings. Hence some of the scholars said that it is the best kind of earnings.

Al-Qurtubi said:

Allaah sent provision to His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) by means of his striving and He made it by means of the best kind of striving which is earning it by means of force and strength.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) went out for the battle of Badr to meet the caravan of Abu Sufyaan.

Al-Qurtubi said: The fact that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) went out to meet the caravan indicates that it is permissible to take booty because it is a halaal source of income. This refutes Maalik’s view that this is makrooh, when he said that this was fighting for worldly gains.

Al-Shawkaani said: Ibn Abi Jamrah said: The scholars of hadeeth are of the view that if the primary motive is to make the word of Allaah supreme, it does not matter what else is also achieved.

9 – Taking martyrs.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“If a wound (and killing) has touched you, be sure a similar wound (and killing) has touched the others. And so are the days (good and not so good), that We give to men by turns, that Allaah may test those who believe, and that He may take martyrs from among you. And Allaah likes not the Zaalimoon (polytheists and wrongdoers).

And that Allaah may test (or purify) the believers (from sins) and destroy the disbelievers”

[Aal ‘Imraan 3:140-141]

Martyrdom is one of the highest statuses before Allaah, and the martyrs are the closest of His slaves to Him. There is no status higher than that of siddeeq apart from martyrdom. Allaah loves to take martyrs from among His slaves, who shed their blood for His love and to earn His pleasure, preferring His pleasure and His love above themselves. There is no way to attain this status except by circumstances that may lead to it such as enemies coming against the Muslims.

This was said by Ibn al-Qayyim in Zaad al-Ma’aad.

This is the great wisdom and those who try to put the Muslims off jihad and make them fear it, and say that jihad is no more than death, and making women widows and children orphans, pale into insignificance.

10 – Ridding the world of corruption.

Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“For had it not been that Allaah checks one set of people by means of another, monasteries, churches, synagogues, and mosques, wherein the Name of Allaah is mentioned much would surely, have been pulled down. Verily, Allaah will help those who help His (Cause). Truly, Allaah is All-Strong, All-Mighty”

[al-Hajj 22:40]

“And if Allaah did not check one set of people by means of another, the earth would indeed be full of mischief. But Allaah is full of bounty to the ‘Aalameen (mankind, jinn and all that exists)”

[al-Baqarah 2:251]

Muqaatil said:

Were it not that Allaah checked the mushriks by means of the Muslims, the mushriks would have overrun the earth and killed the Muslims and destroyed the mosques.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said in al-Jawaab al-Saheeh, 2/216:

So the kuffar are repelled by means of the Muslims and the worse of the two parties is repelled by the better, just as the Magians (Persians) were repelled by the Christian Byzantines, then the Christians were repelled by the believers of the ummah of Muhammad.

Al-Sa’di said: The world would be corrupted if the kuffaar and evildoers were to prevail.

These are some of the reasons why jihad is prescribed.
We ask Allaah to bring the Muslims back to their religion. May Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad.

What is moderate Islam? WSJ panelists mostly have no clue
Tony Blair: I did not understand Islam at time of 9/11 attacks
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  1. says

    ” The world wants to see you refute the version of Islam of the “extremists.” Go ahead. We’re watching, and waiting.”

    Sure, but just so you can say it’s a “windy, pseudo-intellectual diatribe”

    This is hardly the place for a reasoned debate, you have made up your mind.

  2. says

    Is the EVIL FIEND muhammad someone you really want to WORSHIP in life???

    Umm Qirfa was an old Arab woman contemporaneous to Muhammad, the prophet of Islam. She belonged to a pagan tribe named Banu Fazara at Wadi Al-Qurra. This old woman who was also a chief of her clan was brutally killed when Muhammad’s followers raided her tribe and won over them. She was tied between two camels which were driven in opposite directions and her body was split apart. Later her decapitated head was presented to Muhammad as a gift who ordered it to be paraded throughout the streets of Medina. (read more)

  3. says

    As I grow older I am increasing irritated by the Muslim denial. They have a problem; it is obvious to everyone; and instead of dealing with it, they lash out at the messengers. It reminds me of the way some families close ranks around an alcholic. If someone gets picked up for drunk driving, they blame the cops and make excuses, instead of noting that someone is going to get killed if the behavior isn’t stopped.
    Show me the Muslim who is working tirelessly to stop his fellow Muslims from killing others instead of windy diatribes about why Spencer is wrong. Spencer is just a metaphorical breathalyzer in all of this.

  4. says

    The amugness & sustenance of these jihadists is owing to the fortification provided by the leftists of the world & fence sitters.

    Many leftists including Arundhati Roy sympathise with the talibanis with a ” but these men don’t know what to do with their womenfolk around….poor people needing upliftment…hence stone / rape / hit them…”

    That ‘ naked fakir ‘ Gandhi also unfazedly said the same after Moplah massacres playing the devil’s advocate.

    Today the overhyped crook embezzler alleged brahmin muslim appeaser “self pimping false prophet ” SSSSRavishankar of Art of Living says the same:-

    ” They (jihadists) have not got access to our (hindu)Holy Books….so can’t blame them…on the contrary we should be impressed by their regularity in praying….”

    I have heard such perilously deleterious excuses & defense from not just one but several hindus & hindu charlatans. Baba Ramdev (kapalabathi besotted) also says the same.

    All these godmen godwomen want to make money gather fame by attracting large crowds. Hence psittacinely repeat ‘all religions same same’ drivel.

    After 9/11 the crook SSRavishankar said :-

    ” While blessing , I forgot to bless the Twin Towers…or else could have easily prevented 9/11.”

    Seriously. Am not making it up. Anyone quitting his cult he curses & says ” so & so perished in fire because of leaving my art of living organization”.

    And this crook is very close to Indians in Silicon Valley , Bay Area , Democrats , hindutvavadis , RSS , UN plus Congress party and Pakistanis including Musharraf & his family. He & his footsoldiers said:-

    ” By hyperventilating our patented sudarshan kriyas all would be spraying water guns…no more wars…jaigurudev.. choice is yours blessing is mine…jaigurudev…have a nice day…give us Nobel Prize for Peace “.

  5. says

    A simplistic observation tells that one does not have to read and know what is in Quran. One has only to observe the behavior of Muslims and their history since seventh century. This behavior of Muslims has to come from the teachings of Mo/allah in Quran, and that says it all what kind of teachings are there in Quran. Of course, this can be further confirmed by reading Quran. All this nonsense that Muslims and their apologists all over the world keep on telling us that read quran in Arabic, or you have taken out of context, etc., is just that – pure nonsense, hogwash!!!

    Muslims awge jihad – holy war against us because Mo/allah tells them to do so!!!!

  6. says

    I agree that the basis of all Islam is at the core Conquering. This is why it’s nothing like any other Religion.
    The Jewish New Year is on Sept. 9th. I would like to say – Happy ROSH HASHANAH!
    Robert, I had a chance to hear you on Bill Bennett this morning. You were wonderful!
    G-d Bless you for your efforts.

  7. says

    Allah says… but really says…

    #1- The main goal of jihad is to make the people worship Allaah alone and to bring them forth from servitude to people to servitude to the Lord of people. Allaah says

    This is really all it’s about, servitude to Arabs first, Muslims next… Allah last.

    #2 – Repelling the aggression of those who attack the Muslims.

    Muslims always find themselves under attack, since they keep provoking it, so must repel this ‘aggression’ against them continually, and they will make sure of it by attacking you.

    #3 – Removing fitnah (tribulation)

    They create their ‘fitnah’ so to be painted as the perpetually ‘aggrieved’ victims, and then fight Jihad to remove their grievances, so to insure Islam triumphant by ‘removing fitnah’.

    #4 – Protecting the Islamic state from the evil of the kuffaar.

    Islam universally agrees that all non-believers are ‘evil kuffar’ so perpetual war with them is assured.

    #5 – Frightening the kuffaar, humiliating them and putting them to shame.

    Terrorism, rape, rioting, beat up kuffar children and defenseless elderly, ‘no go’ areas, bombings, suicide bombings, murder training for youth, and endless death threats, all are carried out by the ‘true believers’ to keep all kuffar in a perpetual state of fear… merely stock in trade for Islam and Jihad.

    #6 – Exposing the hypocrites

    Tow the party line or else you’re a ‘counter-revolutionary’… yeah we know, it’s been done by all fanatical dictatorships, more recently by Stalin and Mao, just like Mo’ did.

    #7 – Purifying the believers of their sins and ridding them thereof

    Through fundamental reeducation, cult indoctrinations, threats and punishments, death if you try to leave… That ‘purifies’ them.

    #8 – Acquiring booty

    That’s the bottom line, what this is really all about anyway: booty and slaves, especially women slaves, with Mo’s Koran as their business model, and Jihad business execution.

    So this is the Islam “religion of peace”? With friends like that, who needs enemies? We’re letting these Allah worshippers into our country? What? Are we CRAZY???!!!!

  8. says

    “if, that is, you really oppose what they’re doing?”

    That’s it, in a nutshell. How many Muslims truly OPPOSE what is being done in their name? Their silence is deafening.

  9. says

    An American’s perspicacious comment quoted below should further embolden Jihadwatch Editorial Team.

    ” I know I must be doing something right to attract the likes of you to attempt to tell me I’m wrong.”

  10. says

    “May Allaah send blessings and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad.” — headline

    Fat chance! …especially since muhammad is currently in the eternal lake of fire.

  11. says

    What I would suggest is that if we are really interested in reducing Islamic extremism we should consider the causes. The question isn’t just “Why do some Muslims wage jihad?” The question should be “Why do people engage in terrorism?”

    I would suggest that rather than quoting an individual as if it proves a rule we act in a more scientific manner. Homeopaths like to talk about one friend that they know that benefited greatly from snake oil. That’s not scientific and it’s extremely unreliable. So what do the commissioned studies and detailed reports indicate?

    Donald Rumsfeld commissioned the Defense Science Board to study this question. The study is available here. What does it say?

    • Muslims do not “hate our freedom,” but rather, they hate our policies. The
    overwhelming majority voice their objections to what they see as one-sided support in
    favor of Israel and against Palestinian rights, and the longstanding, even increasing
    support for what Muslims collectively see as tyrannies, most notably Egypt, Saudi
    Arabia, Jordan, Pakistan, and the Gulf states.

    • Thus when American public diplomacy talks about bringing democracy to Islamic
    societies, this is seen as no more than self-serving hypocrisy. Moreover, saying that
    “freedom is the future of the Middle East” is seen as patronizing, suggesting that
    Arabs are like the enslaved peoples of the old Communist World ” but Muslims do
    not feel this way: they feel oppressed, but not enslaved.

    • Furthermore, in the eyes of Muslims, American occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq
    has not led to democracy there, but only more chaos and suffering. U.S. actions
    appear in contrast to be motivated by ulterior motives, and deliberately controlled in
    order to best serve American national interests at the expense of truly Muslim selfdetermination.

    • Therefore, the dramatic narrative since 9/11 has essentially borne out the entire
    radical Islamist bill of particulars. American actions and the flow of events have
    elevated the authority of the Jihadi insurgents and tended to ratify their legitimacy
    among Muslims. Fighting groups portray themselves as the true defenders of an
    Ummah (the entire Muslim community) invaded and under attack ” to broad public

    Michael Scheuer was the senior CIA analyst responsible for tracking bin Laden from 1996. He explains that bin Laden has been very clear about the motivations of his violence. US foreign policies. “US forces and policies are completing the radicalization of the Islamic world, something Osama bin Laden has been trying to do with substantial but incomplete success since the early 1990’s. As a result … it is fair to conclude that the United States of America remains bin Laden’s only indispensable ally.” British journalist Jason Burke from his detailed study of Al Qaeda writes that “every use of force is another small victory for bin Laden,” which is creating “a whole new cadre of terrorists.”

    So today Muslims are once again having their suspicions confirmed as Americans are whipped up into a fear mongering frenzy and spewing their hatred of Islam. What should we expect the consequences of this action would be on radical Islamists? Not surprisingly the Anti-Muslim Protests are Seen as a Lift for Extremists by the experts. Thanks a lot Robert. But at least your traffic is up. If only Americans were as tolerant as Hezbollah.

  12. says

    Most Muslims looking for salvation.Most of them only care the life after.Martyrdom is a one way ticket to paradise.So don’t be surprise if Muslims wage jihad on non Muslims.

  13. says

    Something from the jihadwatch archives, all the way from Pakistan. It makes an interesting companion piece to the article from Saudi Arabia that Mr Spencer has posted today.

    An article, ‘Clarifying the Meaning of Jihad’, that appeared in the Pakistan Daily early in 2008


    (the Pakistani Daily, it transpired, was reprinting an article that had previously appeared on certain Islamic websites; this was discovered by members of the forum, quietly googling around).

  14. says

    If Tom Paine were still alive he’d likely be pumping out pamphlets warning of the intolerable burden placed on America by permitting Muslim immigration and calling for the gates to be closed before the Trojan Horse gets in. He’d also be pumping out a new edition of the Age of Reason dissecting the Quran to the size of a pea and giving copies to as many Muslims and non-Muslims as possible. Instead, we get vague calls about stopping Sharia, and national debates on one lousy mosque, while the Saudis quietly fund mega-mosques all over the country and stock them with future jihadis. Certain anti-mosque spokespersons even take pains to say they’re not against Islam just jihad. Duh, jihad is one of Islam’s main tenets. You’re either against Islam or you’re its roadkill. It’s not a respectable faith equal to Christianity and Judaism, but a totally evil zombie, slave and corpse machine that the world must unite against and not mince about it. First, all effort should be concentrated on forming an unstoppable bipartisan movement to stop and reverse Muslim immigration to the U.S. – besides this everything is a waste. The ultimate goal should be to re-quarantine the Muslim world and change it by opening it up to free thought and speech and dethroning Islam as the official religion, then taking the children away from the parents to stop the cycle, for which military action combined with a giant new teachers corps seems in order. I’ll volunteer to be the new Tom Paine. Help me by spreading the url of my free online Islam history site that brings anybody up to speed at http://go.to/islamhistory

    Visit my world Islam watch blog several times daily to keep up on my endless stream of articles and op-eds so you can more effectively concentrate your posting efforts and reach wider audiences: http://tinyurl.com/islamwatch

  15. says

    You bet everything stands crystal clear to us.

    You should not dissipate your time in any theological debate. You wailed big about ” economic policies of America “. So go donate all your ill gotten wealth to American War Veterans.

  16. says

    ‘Sure, but just so you can say it’s a “windy, pseudo-intellectual diatribe”

    ‘This is hardly the place for a reasoned debate, you have made up your mind’.

    Punked out again…figures…

  17. says

    “Sure, but just so you can say it’s a “windy, pseudo-intellectual diatribe”

    This is hardly the place for a reasoned debate, you have made up your mind.”

    * * *

    That’s a lame cop-out, Yusuf.

    Have the courage of your convictions and state your case – it shouldn’t matter what others think. Your argument will stand or fall on its own merits.

  18. says

    Robert has asked you to go debate your own at islamic sites. If you believe jihad is not a pillar of islam, that infidels should not be subjugated, that muslims should not seek to destroy other ways of life, that women should have the same rights as men, that a death sentence for leaving islam is un-islamic, and so on and so forth – then GO debate your fellow believers, not the people here.

    We all know you’ll weasel out though by claiming it’s not worth your time or that only crazy muslims believe these things or some such nonsense. The truth of the matter though is that you’re a coward. You know full well that contradicting Robert or others here will result in nothing more then strong language. Contradicting your coreligionists however may result in the loss of your head.

    But prove us wrong. Post some links from prominent islamic site where you wade into these topics, debating how many learn muslims have got it all wrong and then we might take your posturing seriously. Until then, whatever.

    Good luck.

  19. says

    “This is hardly the place for a reasoned debate, you have made up your mind.”
    No “reasoned debate” is necessary on well established facts.

    Islam is what Islam is; you know it and so do we.

    Islam is not in the same category as what I think of as “the largest dinosaur EVER – for now!!” silliness, where every couple of years we hear of a newly discovered dinosaur that’s said to be “the largest that EVER walked the earth!”

    That is, until a bigger one is found next month.

    No, the basics of Islam are very evidently set, the gates of ijtihad are closed, and nothing has been significantly revised since the middle ages. We won’t be discovering new Qur’anic passages or a “lost” Hadith next month that will turn it all around and instruct moslems to love Jews and other unbelievers, or to give up the idea of spreading Sharia until nothing but Sharia remains.

    The evidence that the basics of Islam are firmly set can clearly be seen in the words, but mostly the deeds, of the moslems who follow it.

  20. says

    Hey big-pete, saving his neck(literally) has a priority over showing infidels he can debate fellow Muslims and prove them wrong (only problem is they are not wrong, unlike the apologists who spread lies)

  21. says

    “Spencer is just a metaphorical breathalyzer in all of this.”

    Anne, good to see you!

    Yep, he’s just the messenger, and he takes all the flack for it.

    All the apologists want to attack and blame the messenger for the content of Islamic teachings and texts when they should blaming… an altogether different “messenger.”

  22. says

    ” No, the basics of Islam are very evidently set, the gates of ijtihad are closed, and nothing has been significantly revised since the middle ages. We won’t be discovering new Qur’anic passages or a “lost” Hadith next month that will turn it all around and instruct moslems to love Jews and other unbelievers, or to give up the idea of spreading Sharia until nothing but Sharia remains “.

    Brilliant Eleanor.

    I like your dinosaur analogy , finetunes one’s clarity further. Thank you.

  23. says

    The mainstream media were very reluctant to report the Beslan child-rapes and tortures. They also went to great lengths to conceal the Muslim identities of the terrorists, and the Islamic theology and sexual supremacist psychology that justified and motivated the sadistic aspects of this atrocity. This cover-up is all the more worrying as the Jihadists are almost certainly planning similar attacks on American schools: http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/beslan-child-rape-torture-enforced.html

  24. says

    Anytime, Crows&Cows! I like your handle btw, my sister and her husband are dairy farmers in Pennsylvania, about 150 head. Her handle would have to be “Crows&Cows&Cats&Hogs&OneMangyOldDog” 😉

    Anway, that dinosaur thing has always bugged me. As a kid I used to get all excited when they’d announce that they’d discoverd the LARGEST!

    But that was about 15 LARGEST’s (and quite a few moons) ago!


  25. says

    Jon the ‘analysts’ have swallowed the narrative put forward by Mr bin Laden hook, line and sinker. When he addresses Muslims and Arabs in particular his writings to them argue direct from Islamic jihad doctrine which existed a 1000 years before the US came into being and Jefferson was left in no doubt about that at the time of the foundation of the US.

    Nevertheless you may still be correct. Project force abroad in a futile effort to install democracy there, by setting up puppet sharia governments and client kingdoms, while caving in to Muslim demands at home is nonsensical. Although not equivalent it reminds me of the Sicilian Expedition by Athens in the middle of the Peloponnesian War against Sparta back home.

  26. says

    It’s not what “Jon sez”. I’m quoting the study commissioned by Rumsfeld with the Defense Science Board. Your response is to act like a homeopath. You have isolated cases of the effectiveness of snake oil and you pretend this proves a general rule. I’m suggesting we be more rigorous. I’m suggesting we evaluate the question in a scientific manner, rather than like a chiropractor or multi-level marketing salesman.

  27. says

    I should have added that the question of whether or not Muslims do not hate our freedom, answered in the negative by the ‘analysts’ represents a complete red herring and the fact that it was suggested at the time indicates commentators were projecting the western concept of the individual onto the middle esastern tribal mind which doesn’t even know about that concept. The analyst response to dimly perceiving the irrelevancy of freedom is to assume it is ‘our’ policies, ably pushed in that direction by the propaganda from Mr bin Laden. No they hate us because we are of a different tribe.

    That hatred may be intensified because for a couple of centuries ‘our’ tribe has had the upper hand to a degree but even when that advantage is removed they still hate as witnessed by how Muslims in Egypt hate the Copts and Muslims in Pakistan hate the minority Sikhs, other Hindus still there, and Christians.

    They hate other, stronger, tribes and they hate other, weaker, tribes. The adjective is redundant: They hate other tribes.

  28. says

    OK, so militant anti-Muslim Brigitte Gabrielle giving a speech with the war mongering and aggressively anti-Muslim Heritage Foundation asserts that a holy war was declared on Christians in Lebanon and this is proof of what? All the science is wrong? This is like quoting a chiropractor that says subluxations are great. I suppose they would.

    How dare Arafat “establish a base with which to attack Israel” in Lebanon. He’s supposed to sit there and get slaughtered and then smile. Israel invades Lebanon and kills 17,000 civilians. Any retaliation is outrageous. The US would never retaliate if we were attacked and thousands of our civilians were killed.

  29. says

    Oh , I am happy to hear that! Farming & horticulture have always interested me. Alas , I have no stamina left in me now.

    Good luck to your family ! Pennysylvania I have read got its name from its sylvan surroundings. I have often seen crows sitting atop cows hence the name.

  30. says

    Please don’t come here spewing that revisionist garbage about displaced “palestinian freedom fighters”. There are too many people here that have a solid grasp on the events leading up to and prior to the creation of Israel for any of that PC nonsense to work. Please peddle your worn out wares somewhere else. No sale.

  31. says

    I welcome Jon’s spewing, though I do temporarily absent myself to put on a rain coat and hip boots whenever I start to read one of his posts. His ambulatory ramblings show us the type of delusional thinking and brainwashing we face.