Is a negative opinion of Islam really evidence of bigotry?

In “Does a negative opinion of Islam amount to conclusive evidence of bigotry?,” October 20, Michael Medved pierces through today’s propaganda fog with some observations that take on a new significance with the Juan Williams imbroglio:

Those who warn of a raging frenzy of American “Islamophobia” base their case on the assumption that anything less than enthusiastic approval of The Religion of Peace automatically qualifies as hate-mongering and ignorance. On ABC News, Christiane Amanpour pointed to recent survey figures on public uneasiness with Islam to prove that Muslim Americans faced an unprecedented tsunami of hostility and discrimination. Actually, the Washington Post/ABC poll she repeatedly cited hardly indicated seething, volcanic anti-Muslim sentiment: less than half the public (49%) held generally “unfavorable” views of Islam, while fully 37% felt favorably disposed toward Koranic values.

Far from reflecting an alarming new surge of groundless hatred, these figures remain virtually unchanged from results of an identical Washington Post/ABC survey from four-and-a-half years ago (March, 2006), which showed 46% unfavorably inclined toward the Muslim faith.

The real question raised by all such expressions of public opinion should confront the nearly 40% of Americans who say they feel positively impressed by Islam and its influence.

What aspect of Muslim teaching and achievement most inspires such respondents? The daily reports of suicidal violence from every corner of the globe, with fellow-Muslims (invariably) as the primary victims? Or the well-known association of Islamic piety with open-hearted respect for the rights of women, homosexuals and infidels? Or is it the sterling record of economic progress, cutting age technology and social justice achieved by precisely those societies (like Saudi Arabia, Iran or Afghanistan) that take Shariah law most seriously? Or would Islam’s American admirers cite the record of Muslim charities in the U.S., the most prominent of which (remember the Holy Land Foundation?) have been shut down by the government for their lavish support of murderous terrorist groups like Hamas?

Quite naturally, the people who look favorably on Islam feel unconcerned over its ancient teachings or loathsome perversions in benighted corners of the globe, and focus instead on the law-abiding, patriotic, family-loving Muslims who have established benign communities throughout the United States. But even the decent people who reside in those communities rightly worry that their impressionable off-spring may become too religious, too zealous in their fervent commitment to The Prophet and his teachings.

There is no real parallel to this fear in Christian or Jewish homes. Christian parents may feel embarrassed by their religiously reborn children suddenly studying the Gospels obsessively, or witnessing obnoxiously to family or friends, but they needn’t worry about wayward kids blowing up themselves or others in the name of Jesus. Jewish mothers and fathers may hate the scraggly beards and black hats adopted by a suddenly Orthodox generation, or resent the refusal to eat non-kosher food at home, but even the most fanatical of their kids feel scant temptation to travel to remote mountain hideouts as part of an international terror conspiracy.

By contrast, the secularized, prosperous parents of the Christmas Day Underwear Bomber (Umar Farouk Abdulmuttalab), or the would-be Times Square Bomber (Feisel Shahzad), or the Fort Hood Shooter (Nidal Hassan), or European-educated engineering graduate Muhammad Atta (and his eighteen 9/11 accomplices) can testify what happens when even products of sophisticated, privileged families become too deeply entangled in Muslim fundamentalism….

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Comments

  1. says

    Since when does a negative opinion of any ideology constitute bigotry?

    Is a negative opinion of Nazism considered bigotry? How about Stalinism?

    Islam is no different, and thus, not above rational criticism and rejection.

    __________________________________________________
    GROUND ZERO MOSQUE BOYCOTT CAMPAIGN
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  2. says

    @ Islamic Empire
    ‘…you are stirring up muslim and racial hatred and we will not tolerate it.’

    First, reasoned criticism of Islam is not an expression of hatred, it is educational. Secondly, Islam is a flawed ideology, not the name for a race of people.

    So, if Islam is, indeed, a religion of peace brimming with purity and goodness, what have you to fear?

    Perhaps you fear that the abundant evidence that Al Qur’an is a man-made text that has changed over time will become widespread. That, of course, would completely delegitimize every claim made by jihadists for committing violence in the name of Islam.

  3. says

    This is great writing. It is concise and to the point.

    Islamophobia is the pejorative term used for people who reject the teachings of islam. In much the same way, homosexuals were called gay.

    We people who know and reject the teachings of Islam should now adopt the term islamophobia and talk of being islamophobe with pride.

    If someone says: You are an islamophobe bigot! You should answer. Yes, I am against Islam and so should you be!

  4. says

    Reflecting on actual events that have been determined to be caused by Muslims and the teachings of Islam makes you a bigot; HUH?

    Oh no! You can’t speak the truth about that because Islam is off limits because it is defined as a religion.

    So we know what is in the Trojan Horse but because it was made by Muslims we have to let it threw our gates.

    How crazy can one get!!!!

  5. says

    “Yes, because you are stirring up muslim and racial hatred and we will not tolerate it.’

    You’re not tolerating it? What are you going to do about it?
    Ha?

    You forgot, you’re no longer in your country! We going to push back.

    We’re seeing the handwriting on the wall all over Europe, and learning from it.

  6. says

    “37% felt favorably disposed toward Koranic values. “

    O come on! I don’t believe that many Americans know anything about the Koran. These polls only mostly show how lazy Americans are in educating themselves about Islam. But I do expect in time the negative percentages to rise considerably.

    Koranic values? It’s hard to read the Koran without revulsion, so ridiculous is it with all its threats of hellfire if you don’t believe, all the scores of killing verses and all the animus toward non-believers and especially hatred of Jews, not to mention the boring repetitiveness, the nonsense like the sun goes down in a muddy pond, and of course the meaningless verses that are comprehensible only if one knows about the domestic squabbles Mo had with his many wives. Clearly this book is a fabrication of Muhammad and hardly an inspiring one.

  7. says

    “while fully 37% felt favorably disposed toward Koranic values.”
    Looks like 37% doesn’t know exactly what those koranic values are. If they only knew.

  8. says

    There’s something wrong with ANYONE who doesn’t have a negative opinion of Islam. Ditto for Marxism and fascism. When totalitarian ideologies are not found fault with, this is ipso facto evidence of ignorance or delusion.

    Anyone who cherishes liberty cannot extend approbation to ideologies which would eliminate freedom if only they get the chance to. It is possible to maintain that freedom-crushing ideologies, like Islam, Marxism and fascism, should be tolerated in a free society up to a point. But this is something very different from the approving of them. And there’s nothing difficult about grasping this if only common sense and moral intelligence, accompanied by proper knowledge, are present. Trouble is one or more of these three key characteristics are missing in a hell of a lot of the species called Homo sapiens. Such humans would be better labeled Homo obtusus.

  9. says

    OT: for the “where are the JW trolls now” file. Anyone remember Muslim apollogist and intrepid “lies and hate” “uncoverer” Srizals?

    well, after he was unable to answer some of my challanges (espcailly after he openly praised TWO terrorist orginizations, HAMAS and IRAN, showed disadain for the death of Jews, basicly saying “don’t fight back, go to the UN! What’s the rush?”), instead of an answer hypocriticly mocked my spelling and threatened me (In a weird, comic-book nerd way). He then disapears from JW and he posts the transcripts of our conversations on his own blog, but without any further rebutals to what I actually said (he blindly does ask for proof that Kuffirs are subjected to sharia law, which is stupid since he knows about JW), and yet somehow makes it out that he answered me perfectly.

    He then posts this: http://answering-questioning.blogspot.com/2010/10/jihad-faiytale.html

    I read this as being positive, and that POV of the father was the inpled correct one, that WWII was a fairy tale, and that the US launching an counter attack against Afganastan because of 9-11 would be “dispicable” and something the Nazis would do.

    He commented and told me I’m all wrong, but I’m wondering, am I crazy for thinking this, especially in light of what he’s said before?

  10. says

    The best thing about all of this is that we’re finally starting to have the conversation about islam in the public domain. Let the muslims argue their point, not silience their critics (as it is today)…don’t you just feel it all changing? We’re getting there and either those like islamic empire will explode (literally) or they too will wake up.

  11. says

    I think the winds are shifting….

    Juan Williams has spoken out and is not retracting.

    Angela Merkel has condemned multiculturalism as a failure.

    Geert Wilders is almost free, his possible conviction becoming a more obvious travesty each day. The PVV is now part of the Dutch government.

    Jonas Gahr Støre, the Foreign Minister of Norway, is opposing any more Saudi money for mosques in his country.

    The Sweden Democrats won 20 seats in parliament.

    Pamela Geller and Robert Spencer draw thousands to stand against the Ground Zero mosque.

    The Stuxnet virus is at work.

    Nicholas Sarkozy has secured a burqa ban despite terrorism threats.

    Yes, the winds are shifting. Yes, some things are not going our way. Elisabeth Sabaditsch-Wolff is still awaiting trial. The EDL is still being hobbled. But the Western ignorance of even two years ago is starting to fade.

  12. says

    Not going to tolerate it, eh islamic? Are your tender muslim sensibilities injured?
    Good!

    And, yes, you surely as hell ARE going to tolerate it. And it could get worse. News flash, ass-hat: You’re the one who won’t be tolerated. Get it?

  13. says

    There will soon come a time when the average American, European, or Australian, will look at a mosque or its parishioners, especially those clad in black tents trailing behind their bearded males, and view it all with mild apprehension, a kind of internal revulsion of the whole lot; not out of fear of Islam, since it really is but a facade, but because all that self-cloaking lying by Muslims about their ‘religion of peace’ (â„¢) will have finally been uncovered, and their ‘mystery’ evaporate like a morning fog. I think that day is dawning. From then on, ignorance of Islam will give way to understanding, and all their threats will be treated as one would treat any animal gone bad. It will not be called a ‘negative opinion, nor”bigotry”, but will be tolerated quietly. We know.

  14. says

    No …

    A negative opinion of islam is really evidence of rational people recognizing the evil within islam and then speaking out against it. Confronting lies by speaking the truth is not bigotry.

    Read the definitions of “bigot” and/or “bigotry”, and you will discover that a true bigot forms opinions without just cause, or forms opinions out of thin air – what’s popularly called “blind ignorance”.

    Clearly those speaking out against islam are basing their opinions on a careful study of islam, not blind ignorance. Ironically, blind ignorance seems more true of those that support islam, hmmm …

  15. says

    From a Recent ACT! for America newsletter. I Linked this debate in other posts last week. Basically the debate shows that when the light of truth is shown on Islam, people’s views change. Doesn’t bode well for Islam and now I fully understand why they want to silence criticism of Islam.
    ———————————-

    A recent debate was held in New York, debating the motion “Is Islam a religion of peace?” To view this fascinating debate, please click here.

    Prior to the debate, the audience members were polled as to their position on the motion.

    41% were for the motion
    25% were against the motion
    34% were undecided

    After the debate, the audience was polled again. Check out these eye-popping results!

    36% were for the motion (a decrease of 5 percentage points)
    55% were against the motion (an increase of 30 percentage points)
    9% were undecided

    In other words, after seeing only one debate, most of the undecideds and some of those who initially agreed that “Islam is a religion of peace” changed their positions to opposing the motion.

  16. says

    The true understanding of Islam and its ugly face is evidence not to be confused with bigotry.The more we know it,the more prepared we are to defend ourselves against its evil plans of global domination.

  17. says

    Bigotry is defined as the “irrational hatred of a particular race or group”. Islam is an ideology, so that’s disqualifying, but, even assuming a dislike of Muslims applies, that sentiment would have to be irrational to be bigoted.
    Prejudice means the forming of a negative opinion based on inadequate evidence or knowledge. The more I learn about Islam, the less prejudicial my negative opinion becomes.

  18. says

    On page 672 (992 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, he says

    …kill those who disbelieve in God.

    ——————————————————————–

    On page 222 (326 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, he affirms that those who do not follow him will be slaughtered.

    Abu jahl said to them: “Muhammad alleges that if you follow him you will be kings of the Arabs and the Persians. Then after death you will be raised to gardens like those of the Jordan. But if you do not follow him you will be slaughtered, and when you are raised from the dead you will be burned in the fire of hell.” The apostle [Muhammad] came out to them with a handful of dust saying: “I do say that.”

    ———————————————————————-

    On page 131 (183 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, he says, “I bring you slaughter.”

    While they were thus discussing him the apostle [Muhammad] came towards them and kissed the black stone, then he passed them as he walked round the temple. As he passed they said some injurious things about him. This I could see from his expression. He went on and as he passed them the second time they attacked him similarly. This I could see from his expression. Then he passed the third time, and they did the same. He [Muhammad] stopped and said, “Will you listen to me O Quraysh? By him who holds my life in His hand I bring you slaughter.”

  19. says

    Are people who oppose Christianity accused of “bigotry”? No.
    Christians themselves are more likely to be accused of bigotry than their detractors. If I hate Christianity I have lots of friends and plenty of respect. If I hate Islam I am sent into Coventry for being a bigot.

    Madness.

    OT: Christian groups have been asked by the government (Australia – headed by an atheist) to help with the flood of asylum seekers we are kindly accepting here. Most of the asylum seekers are Muslim. The government didn’t ask Muslim groups for help.

    More madness.

  20. says

    “Is a negative opinion of Islam really evidence of bigotry?”

    No, it’s evidence of sanity, just like a negative opinion of human sacrifice or cannibalism.

  21. says

    @Islamic Empire “…Yes, because you are stirring up muslim and racial hatred and we will not tolerate it…”

    We Chinese in Indonesia did not stir any racial hatred to Muslim, yet we still being persecuted, christian or not. Mei 1998, thousands of Chinese murdered in the streets of Jakarta, many of them are Chinese women being raped before killed by the enraged Muslims. We Indonesian Chinese have the right hate all of you MUSLIMS!

  22. says

    In a core Islamic text, Muhammad orders people burned up in their houses, for not coming to prayer:

    In Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:

    Volume 1, Book 11, Number 626:

    Narrated Abu Huraira:

    The Prophet said, “No prayer is harder for the hypocrites than the Fajr and the ‘Isha’ prayers and if they knew the reward for these prayers at their respective times, they would certainly present themselves (in the mosques) even if they had to crawl.” The Prophet added, “Certainly I decided to order the Mu’adh-dhin (call-maker) to pronounce Iqama [second call to prayer] and order a man to lead the prayer and then take a fire flame to burn all those who had not left their houses so far for the prayer along with their houses.”

  23. says

    In core Islamic texts, we learn that Muhammad allowed his soldiers to rape their captive women:

    From Sahih Muslim, a canonical hadith collection:
    Book 008, Number 3371:

    Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa’id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa’id, did you hear Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-‘azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi’l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing ‘azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah’s Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah’s Messenger [Muhammad] (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.

    Notice that Muhammad did not say, “do not rape your captive women.” He merely says it does not matter if his soldiers withdraw before ejaculation, because souls destined by Allah to be born will be born regardless.

    From Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:
    Volume 5, Book 59, Number 459:

    Narrated Ibn Muhairiz:
    I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Said Al-Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Said said, “We went out with Allah’s Apostle for the Ghazwa [battle at which Muhammad was present] of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus, we said, ‘How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah’s Apostle [Muhammad] who is present among us?” We asked (him) about it and he said, ‘It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist.”

    Again notice that, in answer to his soldiers’ queries Muhammad doesn’t say “You must not force your captives to have intercourse with you.” He says only that coitus interruptus, withdrawing prior to ejaculation, is pointless, because souls predestined to exist will exist regardless.

    Again in Sahih Bukhari:
    Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:

    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
    We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah’s Apostle [Muhammad] about it and he said, “Do you really do that?” repeating the question thrice, “There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection.”

    Thus Muhammad does not forbid his men to rape their captives, but merely says that it’s better not to do coitus interruptus. His men should keep going till coitus is complete.

  24. says

    In response to Muslims who follow the example of Muhammad and kill or issue death threats against anyone who says the “wrong” thing, many people and groups censor themselves and/or go into hiding and/or have bodyguards. Some examples of recent victims:

    Molly Norris; the producers of South Park; journalist Lawrence O’Donnell; cartoonist Lars Vilks; philosopher Robert Redeker; filmmaker Theo Van Gogh; authors Hirsi Ali and Salman Rushdie; Danish newspaper Jyllands Posten; atheist Sabri Husibi; lyricist Javed Akhtar; cartoonist Kurt Westergaard; the Yale University Press; the Metropolitan Museum of Art; director of the museum in the Hague, Wim van Krimpen; the director of the film 2012; the comedian Penn Jillette; the British potter Grayson Perry; lawyer Majed Moughni; author Taslima Nasreen; disc jockey/musician Jakub Rene Kosik; Coptic Orthodox priest Zakaria Botros, pop star Deeyah, politician Shiria Khatun, Christian minister Dr. Peter Hammond; actor Omar Sharif; artist Sooreh Hera; artist Sarah Maple; Beatle Paul McCartney; and countless others.

  25. says

    Bernard Lewis says the overwhelming majority of uses of the word “jihad” in Islam’s core texts are military in meaning

    He writes on page 72 of his book The Political Language of Islam, that

    …the overwhelming majority of classical theologians, jurists, and traditionalists [Muslim specialists in the Qur’an, hadiths, life of Muhammad, and Islamic law] … understood the obligation of jihad in a military sense.

    Lewis also writes, on page 31 of his book The Crisis of Islam, that

    For most of the fourteen centuries of recorded Muslim history, jihad was most commonly interpreted to mean armed struggle for the defense or advancement of Muslim power.

    ————————————————–

    Muhammad goes to war to impose Islam

    In Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:

    Volume 1, Book 8, Number 387

    …Allah’s Apostle [Muhammad] said, “I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: ‘None has the right to be worshipped but Allah.’ And if they say so, pray like our prayers, face our Qibla and slaughter as we slaughter, then their blood and property will be sacred to us and we will not interfere with them except legally and their reckoning will be with Allah…”

    In other words, Muhammad says that if you are non-Muslim, your right to live will not be sacred to Muslims, nor your right to property.

    *********************************

    Muhammad says your lives and property are not safe from him unless you become a Muslim

    In Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:

    Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24:

    Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:

    Allah’s Apostle said: “I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform all that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah.”

    **********************************

    Similarly in Sahih Muslim, a canonical hadith collection:

    Book 031, Number 5917:

    …Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: Allah’s Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people? Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger, and when they do that then their blood and their riches are inviolable from your hands but what is justified by law and their reckoning is with Allah.

  26. says

    In core Islamic texts, Muhammad refers to help from terror, his right to booty, and his mission to all mankind

    In a canonical hadith collection, Sahih Muslim:

    Book 4, Number 1062:

    Abu Huraira reported that the Messenger of Allah [Muhammad] (may peace be upon him) said: I have been given superiority over the other prophets in six respects: I have been given words which are concise but comprehensive in meaning; I have been helped by terror (in the hearts of enemies): spoils have been made lawful to me: the earth has been made for me clean and a place of worship; I have been sent to all mankind and the line of prophets is closed with me.

  27. says

    In the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, pages 511-517 (758-766 in the Arabic) we learn how in Khaybar Muhammad ordered the torture and beheading of a man in order to get hold of a treasure, and how that night Muhammad took into his private tent for consummation of “marriage” the tortured man’s widow, whose father and other male relatives Muhammad had just killed:

    Kinana b. al-Rabi’, who had the custody of the treasure of the B. al-Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (Tabari says “was brought”) to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle [Muhammad] said to Kinana, ‘Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?’ he said Yes. The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle [Muhammad] gave orders to al-Zubayr b. al-‘Awwam, ‘Torture him until you extract what he has,’ so he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head in revenge for his brother Mahmud. [– page 515 (763-764 in the Arabic)]

    The apostle took captives…among whom was Safiya d. Huyayy b. Akhtab who had been the wife of Kinana b. al-Rabi’ b. Abu’l-Huqayq, and two cousins of hers. The apostle chose Safiya for himself. [– page 511 (758 in the Arabic)]

    When the apostle married Safiya in Khaybar or on the way, she having been beautified and combed, and got in a fit state for the apostle by Umm Sulaym d. Milhan mother of Anas b. Malik, the apostle passed the night with her in a tent of his. Abu Ayyub, Khalid b. Zayd brother of B. al-Najjar passed the night girt with his sword, guarding the apostle and going round the tent until in the morning the apostle saw him and asked him what he meant by his action. He replied, “I was afraid for you with this woman for you have killed her father, her husband, and her people, and till recently she was in unbelief, so I was afraid for you on her account.’ They allege that the apostle said “O God, preserve Abu Ayyub as he spent the night preserving me.’
    [– page 516-517 (766 in the Arabic)]

  28. says

    Ibn Kathir, perhaps the Muslim world’s most popular Quran commentator, says Allah’s pardon of the unbelievers was repealed by Quran Chapter 9 and its verses of the sword

    Kathir explains here (if you go there, scroll down to the bottom third of the page) that Quran 2:106, which advises Muslims to be tolerant toward unbelievers, has been canceled by verses in Quran Chapter 9 (which Muslim scholars generally agree was one of the last Quran chapters revealed). Kathir quotes part of Quran 9:5, but here’s the whole verse:

    Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

    And Kathir quotes part of Quran 9:29. Again, here’s the whole verse:

    Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger [Muhammad] have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth [Islam], out of those who have been given the Book [Christian and Jews], until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection [this subjection is a source of Islamic law’s institution of dhimmitude, i.e., third-class legal status for non-Muslims].

    Notice that 9:29 does not say “fight in self-defense.” It says “fight those who do not believe” in Islam.

    On Islam and the state of subjection referred to in 9:29, read Mark Durie’s brilliant, concise, and very readable book, The Third Choice: Islam, Dhimmitude, and Freedom.

    Anyway, then Kathir says,

    Allah’s pardon for the disbelievers was repealed. Abu Al-`Aliyah, Ar-Rabi` bin Anas, Qatadah and As-Suddi said similarly: “It [the pardon, or forgiveness] was abrogated by the Ayah [verse] of the sword.” [Quran 9:5]

  29. says

    On page 369 (554 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, Muhammad says “kill any Jew who falls into your power”:

    It’s a “beautiful” story of two brothers, Muhayyissa and Huwayyisa: (To keep things clear, it may help to remember that the brother whose name begins with M is the Murderer in the story.)

    “The apostle [Muhammad] said, “Kill any Jew that falls into your power.‘ Thereupon Muhayyisa bin Masud leapt upon Ibn Sunayna, a Jewish merchant with whom they had social and business relations, and killed him. Huwayisa was not a Muslim at the time though he was the elder brother. When Muhayyisa killed [the Jewish merchant] Huwayyisa began to beat [his brother Muhayyisa], saying, ‘You enemy of God, did you kill him when much of the fat on your belly comes from his wealth?’ Muhayyisa answered, ‘Had the one who ordered me to kill him ordered me to kill you I would have cut your head off.’…[Huwayyisa] replied, ‘By God, if Muhammad had ordered you to kill me would you have killed me?’ [Muhayissa] said, ‘Yes, by God, had he ordered me to cut off your head I would have done so.’ [Huwayyisa] exclaimed, “By God, a religion which can bring you to this is marvellous!’ and [Huwayyisa] became a Muslim.”

  30. says

    On page 222 (326 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, he affirms that those who do not follow him will be slaughtered:

    Abu jahl said to them: “Muhammad alleges that if you follow him you will be kings of the Arabs and the Persians. Then after death you will be raised to gardens like those of the Jordan. But if you do not follow him you will be slaughtered, and when you are raised from the dead you will be burned in the fire of hell.” The apostle [Muhammad] came out to them with a handful of dust saying: “I do say that.”

  31. says

    The term “Islamophobia” is and has always been a mystery to me, but as always with Islamic apologists it is applied to deflect attention from the rules, tenets and sayings of Islam that denounce, mock, scorn and threaten the Infidel.
    Islam abounds with phobia that are far more illogical than the so called Islamophobia: I need only mention all the large and small obsessive rules that can dominate the life of the Faithful, the need for women to be covered up, the rules against certain kinds of food and how it is prepared, the frowning attitudes towards anything that is not mentioned positively in the Quran, the refusal to even touch an Infidel or one of the other sex, the incessant denouncements of anything of unbelief in the Quran, the sharp divide into clean and unclean that makes even the smell of bacon (see post below) a thing of abomination, the jubilant celebration of everything in Muhammad except his face, the always present and selfpitying sense of “persecution” because all the above is oh so tiresome.

    The latest I saw was a young women from the local Muslim Street who sings in a Danish choir, in full uniform of course to impose her presence. But even she admits there are mumblings among her neighbors because “the songs are accompanied by musical instruments that are not allowed according to Islam”.

  32. says

    It is NOT evidence of Bigotry. We are allowed to express a negative opinion of whatever we want here in the good ole’ USA. Well, we used to be. It seems now that no one can have a negative opinion of this evil way of life called Islam without being punished or fired from their job. And that is scary. Why is it that people can bash Catholicism, Christianity, politics or anything else, but if we bash Islam we are called an Islamaphobe? I do not understand it – why the fear? Well I guess people are scared of the consequences if they do. Death threats, violence – the religion of peace really knows how to intimidate don’t they!

  33. says

    Hey Islamic Empire, why don’t you join Ahmadinejad and Chavez and create that great empire they talk about. They are about as mad and deluded as you are. Who in their right mind would envision an Islamic empire…..eek, would rather have rats in the house than Islamic swine flue… Oink Oink!
    Do you feel that hatred brewing up inside you that makes you want to react normally (for a Muslim nutter) and want to keel me…. What’s the matter, have you gone soft in the head from reading too many love stories?
    You are a sorry breed of animals calling yourself humans.

  34. says

    Tom Davis
    A corner was certainly turned even this year, even the last 6 months. Talking about “all isn’t exactly as it seems in TRoP” without being called a Nazi has arrived, which is at least a start but obviously a long way to go. However, whilst people are waking up to what Islam is, I think most still don’t appreciate the threat. “Yeah, but they’re just a minority, no need to worry”.

    I, like many, certainly go through stages of lows and highs. From, “we are doomed”, to “I see the light and we’re gunna win this”. With a turning tide, we will, at a leadership level, eventually wrest back common sense and try to save our civilised countries. The big caveat on that though is the sheer frightening demographics and that we could literally be swamped by sheer weight of numbers before adequate protective measures can be taken.

    The only viable solution then is to shine the light on Islam and destroy or at least severely contain the cancer. It’s so ridiculous that our greatest weapon against the jihad, simple truth, is kept from us. So when the truth gets mainstream, which I believe is about 5 years away (irrespective of OIC thuggish tactics), we can change tactic a little, humiliate and enlighten Muslims out of it and get on with life. It sounds fanciful but how do we know it wont work?

  35. says

    Maybe my opinion is oversimplified, but I doubt it:

    I don’t agree with Catholic worship because of praying to saints (idolatry) books and ritual added by the church and other similar reasons – I have had numerous intelligent discussions on my personal reasoning for this view with devout Catholics and no one has taken serious offense. I am still in close contact with many of these folks and it is a continuing game to ridicule each other’s religious beliefs.

    Funny they have never called me a bigot for my views that don’t agree with theirs, nor have I received any death threats for it.

  36. says

    Well……,there is the usual “Backhanded-Compliment” I hear CAIR and many Imam’s spew without even noticing it.

    Listen carefully to those promoting islam as more Just and more Human Rights, somewhere in the diatribe swill I hear them say that “Less people have been slaughtered under Islam than any other faith”.
    Nice, that’s like a Mexico Hotel boasting that they have fewer Guests murdered on their beach fronts.
    WOW, book me a flight to THAT Hotel and sign me up to Islam where my odds are better to grow old and THEN die .

  37. says

    Very interesting. Islamic Empire posted the first comment here, and then simply disappeared.

    I suppose he / she lacks the moral courage to face anti – jihadists. Better to spit and run than to answer the many questions we would ask him.

  38. says

    What I find interesting is that the “tolerant” left wasn’t tolerant at all. Juan Williams was expressing his opinion, nothing more. I feel the same way too, so I guess I’m a Cuban bigot. So be it.

  39. says

    “Yes, because you are stirring up Muslim and racial hatred and we will not tolerate it.”

    What can one expect from a follower of a sexual degenerate, pedophile,ignorant and illiterate . Their only defense is violence and intimidation. They think we are going to be silent and take easy ?
    These plagiarist,have taken our history and turned it to a story fed by the Devil to this ignorant desert dweller. Where is the tradition coming from Ismael ???? Non what so ever.

    What are the so called prophesies of this invented prophet? What are his achievements other than vandalism,violence , rape murder,looting,etc???

    To follow such a evil human being you must have evil genes with in your blood and be as ignorant or worse than the leader. Salman Rushdie had it right when he choose the title to his novel ( Novel ????) ” The Satanic Verses”.

    You are not going to take it, uh ? Threatening us ?

  40. says

    Bigot…dictionary.com…a person who is utterly intolerant of any differing creed, belief, or opinion.

    There are not greater bigots than can be found in Islam…

  41. says

    As an American and a Catholic I am aware that there are people who -because of bigotry – despise me without knowing me or anything about me. That does not bother me. I believe that it comes from ignorance or sometimes simply a matter of preference. It may occur because of past events, deeds of my ancestors, etc.
    Once in a restaurant I made the sign of the cross as I said my prayer of thanks. People in the booth next to me, observing the pious gesture, began to make the usual anti-Catholic remarks to one another in a general sort of way. “I don’t know why Catholics pray to Mary. I believe in the Bible.” “Yeah, they think that they can sin all they want as long as they confess to a priest.” and so on. My strongest emotion was one of annoyance – not at their misconceptions of what Catholics believe – but of their round about pharisaical means of “witnessing” to their idolatrous neighbor.
    I grew up in NYC in the 50’s where Irish were drunks, Jews were cheap, Poles were dumb, Italians were greasy. I had a relative who ALWAYS refered to Protestants as PB’s, i.e. “P… bastards.” As teenagers we were friends with all of the above and we all exchanged “good-natured” jokes about one another’s religions and ethnicities.
    I have negative opinions regarding Lutheranism, Hinduism, Islam, crazy traditionalist Catholics, crazy liberal Catholics. I prefer Benedictines to Jesuits. I don’t like nuns in lay clothing. I don’t like being in the presence of drunks.
    As for Islam, it is a very dangerous, disorganized idealogy. I believe that the world is in great peril because of its adherents: both the “fundamentalists” and the Muslims who fear criticising their murderous brethren. Thir theology seems to me a mess of pagan Arab superstition, flavored with vague misconstrued elements of Judaism and Christianity. I would be very distressed if a mosque were being built next to my house – doubt if I’d blow it up, though. Rather I’d erect a garden shrine to Our Lady or, better yet, a wayside crucifix and maybe a Porky-pig shaped mailbox.
    If the astute Juan Williams had said “When I see a nun in a habit it makes me uncomfortable” he would have gotten laughs. I doubt if it would have even registered annoyance on my emotional seismograph. He would certainly not have been fired. Archbishop Dolan would not have organized a street demonstration outside of NPR.
    If Islam and Muslims cannot abide criticism, and even bigotry, they cannot coexist in free society. In the USA most new immigrant groups have gone through a generation or so of bigotry. Then as they assimilate and “the natives” become accustomed to their cultural contributions, acceptance and even celebration ensue. Our current insanity of bending over backwards and walking on egg-shells to avoid offending Muslims will harm us greatly.

  42. says

    Classicus said: “I’ve yet to hear of an Islamic Boudicca.”

    Or an Islamic Theodora, Eleanor, Elizabeth, Maria Theresa, or Margaret Thatcher. Or an Islamic Sappho, Mme de Stael, Jane Austen, Harriet Beecher Stowe, or Emily Dickinson. Not surprising, since Islam regards a woman as worth only one half a man.

  43. says

    I will not tolerate the violence, opression of women, inequality, hate, pedophilia, war mongering, prejudice, falsehoods, suicide bombing nut jobs that Islam stirs up.

  44. says

    I will not tolerate the violence, opression of women, inequality, hate, pedophilia, war mongering, prejudice, falsehoods, suicide bombing nut jobs that Islam stirs up.

  45. says

    WE AS CHRISTIANS ARE COMMANDED TO LOVE MUSLIMS. HOWEVER, WE MUST RECOGNIZE THAT THE KORAN IS HATE LITERATURE. IT IS THE KORAN THAT GUIDED 9/11, FORT HOOD, SO CALLED HONOR KILLINGS, AND IT GOES ON AND ON….. IT IS THE KORAN THAT COMMANDS THE KILLING OR CHRISTIANS, JEWS, AND UNBELIEVERS.

    THE KORAN MUST BE BANNED!!! NO ONE ACCEPTING THE KORAN CAN BE TRUSTED TO HONOR THE AMERICAN CONSTITUTION.

    FINALLY, MUCH OF THE HATE HAS BEEN GENERATED AND SUPPORTED BY SAUDI ARABIA, THEY ARE AMERICA’S REAL ENEMY!!!

  46. says

    What is “bigotry?” The dictionary definition is “stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s own.”

    But think about it, doesn’t that exactly describe what a ‘bigot’ is? If anyone calls you a “bigot”, are they not completely intolerant of what you are or represent in your thoughts and opinions? So the end product is truly that anyone who calls you a “bigot” is automatically a “bigot” for labeling you. Is this not an interesting paradox, one bandied about by Muslims and far-Left critics, who are quick to level this label at anyone who does not agree with them? Is there anyone more ‘bigoted’ than Muslims with their unyielding ‘word of god’ dogma, and all the hatred written into their Koran? They are, in the true sense of the word “BIGOTS”!! How humorous, were they not so dead serious, and often so damn deadly.

    Anyone calling you a “bigot” is a bigot! – LOL

  47. says

    Yes, because you are stirring up muslim and racial hatred and we will not tolerate it.

    No? Well what do you propose to do about it? Sounds like a threat to me…What race is Islam anyway?

  48. says

    Islamic Empire:
    “Yes, because you are stirring up muslim and racial hatred and we will not tolerate it.”

    LMAO – stirring up Muslim hatred? Would this be the famous Muslim hatred against freedom of conscience and expression that is being stirred up?

    Oh, and by the way, Muhammadans aren’t a race.

    Next time, try and make sense when you post…

  49. says

    But Islamic, how you gonna put those worms back in the can? EVERYBODY IS TALKING ABOUT THIS, and there is nothing, I repeat, NOTHING you can do about it. And we’re the ones who aren’t going to tolerate your nonsense, anymore.

  50. says

    Muslims always seem to be stirred up with hatred.

    We non-muslims don’t even need to do anything to cause this, except:

    1) refuse to convert to islam
    2) refuse to accept muslims as superior to the rest of us
    3) refuse to deify mohammad, who was a pedophile, and the ultimate douchebag.

    Did I forget anything?

  51. says

    Surely many would disagree with me…
    All destructive negative criticism -including hate speech- is useful and good. The critic will never know -and/or he shouldn’t know- how the “victim” may perceives the criticism.
    The most damaging remarks are those which are real.
    Adult people face it and reforms or ends the problem.
    Children just fight back or begins to cry.

    “you are stirring up muslim and racial hatred and we will not tolerate it”.

    It wouldn’t mind me if it was a race. Nothing should be free from criticism as long as it doesn’t include economic or physical threats or violence.

    Do you believe in the YY chromosoma? Shouldn’t a religion -whichever- -or even a race- addressed or questioned by the actions of an even small percentatge of its followers to know what motivates them?

  52. says

    “…we will not tolerate it.

    Sounds like a threat… So what are you going to do about it? Refuse our alms? Go ahead, make our day!

  53. says

    Yes, because you are stirring up muslim and racial hatred and we will not tolerate it.

    In my part of America we have colorful expressions for people like you, IE. “An alligator mouth backed up by a hummingbird ass” will do for this occasion.

  54. says

    Medved: “Does a negative opinion of Islam amount to conclusive evidence of bigotry?”

    Islamic Empire: “Yes, because you are stirring up muslim and racial hatred and we will not tolerate it.”

    Me: First, why are muslims so full of hate? Second, what “race” is Islam?

  55. says

    I didn’t know Islam was a race.

    And who is we? The men from the Middle East and Central Asia who prefer boys and other men over women?

    What a backwards arrested culture.

  56. says

    Agreed, Comic Relief. The more Islam becomes known, the better. For anyone of sense, to know Islam is to despise it. It crushes freedom of speech, freedom of religion and cannot work whatsoever with true democracy or a concept like equality under the law. The more light shined on Islam (Mohammed too, twisted individual that he was) the better. It can only prevail in furtive shadows and is doomed when exposed to sunlight. Folks across the world are catching on and so I remain cautiously optimistic.

    Islam is evil. It’s that simple. And also that complex because the world at large has never before had to confront the realization that mankind got a major religion which is wicked and very control-freakish. But the world is slowly but surely grasping this.

  57. says

    I agree with you Comic Relief. The conversation of Islam is finally getting to the MSM. Now that Bill O’Reilly and now Juan Williams have said things that we are all thinking it’s about time we expressed our views honestly. Why does islam make us feel uncomfortable in our society? It’s because of what the koran teaches it’s members. The tenants of islam cannot be tolerated in a free society. Plain and simple.

    “Yes, because you are stirring up muslim and racial hatred and we will not tolerate it.”

    Since when is talking about islam stirring up muslim and racial hatred? Give me a break.

  58. says

    There will soon come a time when the average American, European, or Australian, will NOT HAVE TO LOOK at a mosque or its parishioners, especially those clad in black tents trailing behind their bearded males, ANYWHERE IN THEIR COUNTRY.

    Sorry Tours, I love your posts, but I am not giving up on this dream for the sake of my progeny.

  59. says

    You didn’t forget anything. But you could have added that the Qur’an claims that Allah is the author of deceit, for “Allah deceives whom he will.” And if we accept the premise that all “people of the Book,” have the same deity in common, that makes God the author of deceit, an idea offensive to Jewish and Christian theists.

    Furthermore, if every word of the Qur’an is true, the proposition that Allah deceives means all deceit comes from him, and would tend to cancel any truth claims made elsewhere in the text. The Qur’an is logically a mess.

    And finally, you could have added that if the Qur’an is the highest expression of the Arab mind, the Arab mind is a moron.

    But not to worry, you made the case very well.

  60. says

    I think you did forget something:

    4. Refuse to accept that women and children are mere chattel, to be used and abused at any whim. Instead, they are acknowledged as human beings and accorded full rights and equality with men.

    😉

  61. says

    It’s madness alright. The Australian government ought not to accept any more Muslim refugees, but no true Christian there could refuse to help Muslims who are already in Australia and need help – nor should they.

    Help or aid should never depend upon one’s religion, or color, or caste. If it does, it is not aid.

    What is most striking about your comment is that the govt. has not asked Muslim groups to participate.Why not?

    Is there a story that could be posted to JW about it?

  62. says

    You know, I thought that we were going to have a little fluffing of those hummingbird tail feathers in the form of a paragraph on why Islam is a religion worthy of consideration. Alas, no. It seems that IE hasn’t got it in him/her?* to write a clear statement about Islam.

    It would go without saying that such a statement of what Islam has to recommend it over other religions, could, if well done, go a long way to dispel some of the bigotry and prejudice we hear about and that so many of the non-Muslims seem to suffer from. After all, we non-Muslims have misunderstood Islam for quite some time now.

    Perhaps the question that is the most pressing is: “Why does Islam have dualistic ethics?” This is not to leave out other important questions, but the ethical question is the easiest to pose with regard to those who are neither Christian nor Jew, so that all are included, and because Islam would address itself to all humanity.

    Could it be that Islam has nothing original in its ethics to offer? Well, I’ve been waiting to hear that from IE, but he* won’t come out to play.

    *I’m assuming that IE is male, since it is usually a male who fights for, establishes and defend empires, or fights against opposing empires. I’ve yet to hear of an Islamic Boudicca.

  63. says

    There will soon come a time when the average American, European, or Australian, will NOT HAVE TO LOOK at a mosque or its parishioners, especially those clad in black tents trailing behind their bearded males, ANYWHERE IN THEIR COUNTRY.

    I love your posts too, Medina. For the sake of your progeny, and ours, I hope there will be peace and freedom for ALL humankind, without fear or bigotry. I hear you. And that’s why we must face this evil now… for them.

  64. says

    Great cartoon, Bosch.

    As is often the case with your work, it took me a while to see everything you put into the image, and to get it.

  65. says

    Great cartoon, Bosch!!!! That must be the staff of NPR at the movies, too scared to watch “Islam Exposed” produced by the staff of JW.

  66. says

    Well if a few Muslims are burned up I suppose the idea is, “We’ll make more,” or, “We’ll make more by war.”

    Traeh, still no answer from IE. So, my next question is: Which is more likely to give a negative impression of Islam?

    1) An angry crowd of Muslims in the public streets of: London, Paris, Copenhagen, Berlin, Amsterdam, Islamabad, Cairo, etc., screaming for: Danish, German, Dutch, British, French, American, non-believer, blood for the crime of: blasphemy, insulting Islam, idolatry, “intolerance,” trespassing in “Muslim lands,”?

    2) The silence of would be Islamic spokesmen to make a positive statement about Islam when asked?

    3) The obvious aporia of well known Muslims to explain how the perpetrators of savage acts like the killing of the children in the school at Beslan justify their barbarity when the killers themselves claim to act in the name of Islam by pointing out various verses in the Qur’an and hadiths?

    4) A calm rational person discussing why Islam is a spiritual and ethical advance for humanity that other religions have heretofore missed.

    5) Reading the Qur’an.

    Finally, Islamic Empire: What accounts for the negative opinions so many non-Muslims have of Islam? I just can’t figure out where they come from.

    I rather doubt that IE will answer traeh.

  67. says

    I don’t know. The O’Reilly and Williams events appear to be important milestones in the matter of Islam in the USA. The gentle discussions in Pretendland about TRoP are finished.

  68. says

    Very interesting. Islamic Empire posted the first comment here, and then simply disappeared.

    Not interesting at all.

    I think IE is not a muslim, but a prankster who enjoys the noise of the response he is causing. A primitive troll. Let’s ignore him.

  69. says

    No, you’re not a bigot Ben. You’re just misinformed.

    Praying to the saints is like talking to friends, friends who lived and died for Christ. It’s Christ’s universe so if He wants to honor them by allowing them to grant favors to the faithful that is His prerogative. It always fascinates me how Protestants insist on limiting God’s power to fit their view of how they think things should be.

    I had this same conversation with my Mom’s friend last week when we were going with a group of ladies to a tea room. One of the ladies was going on from our lunch for a few days vacation and forgot her makeup bag which she thought she had with her. She panicked because she had left her car for her son to pick up and meet her later and she thought she left the keys locked in the house. Now this woman is very nervous and sensitive and her panic was very real. So as is my custom, I immediately said a prayer to St. Jude who finds my keys whenever I lose them. (He also found a kidney for a friend’s dad, but that’s another story.) In less than two minutes she realized that she had a house key with her, got her makeup and we were on her way. When she got back into the car I told her I had said a prayer to St. Jude and that I was going to thank him for his help. This upset her and she said, oh no, and started saying, “Thank You, Jesus”, several times. And of course Jesus gave St. Jude the power to help her, just like He said He would in the Gospel, so in effect she was correct because all favors are granted by God. But she hadn’t asked Christ for help.

    So later at the tea room when we were getting ready to leave one of the other ladies who was brought up Catholic but rejected it to become an Evangelical started a discussion when I mentioned St. Jude. She was negative about it and I asked her if she had an emergency would she call a friend for help and she agreed she would. So I asked her why she didn’t go to Christ first and she said, oh, she would go to Christ first. And I said, but you didn’t go to Him first today, because it is a natural inclination in humans to panic a little and then ask a friend for help. Some people go to Christ first but in my experience most don’t, not right at first, not when the situation first arises. So I asked her if she can go to friend who is alive why not a saint who died for Christ?

    I do not idolize saints, Ben. I give them the proper honor that Christ expects me to and do favors for me when I ask them to help me out. Christ is my Number One because He is the True God and because He died a horrible death just to get my attention, but when I lose something St. Jude always comes to my rescue when I ask for his help, as I would any other friend I know. And Our Lord doesn’t have any problem with that.

    If I asked you for help would I be idolizing you? No, I would just be asking and you could say yes or no. St. Jude has always said yes to me since I was a little girl. And for those who say I heal myself or create the power from within I say, poppycock. If I was that powerful trust me, we wouldn’t have a Muslim problem.

  70. says

    OT, I know, but I think you have the basic answer to that debate. As a further illumination, I find that stating “praying with the saints” rather than “praying to the saints” makes your point very well. Would that all problems go away by changing a preposition.

  71. says

    @classicus to traeh | October 21, 2010 11:18 PM

    Traeh, still no answer from IE. So, my next question is: Which is more likely to give a negative impression of Islam?
    1) An angry crowd of Muslims in the public streets of: London, Paris, Copenhagen, Berlin, Amsterdam, Islamabad, Cairo, etc., screaming for: Danish, German, Dutch, British, French, American, non-believer, blood for the crime of: blasphemy, insulting Islam, idolatry, “intolerance,” trespassing in “Muslim lands,”?
    2) The silence of would be Islamic spokesmen to make a positive statement about Islam when asked?
    3) The obvious aporia of well known Muslims to explain how the perpetrators of savage acts like the killing of the children in the school at Beslan justify their barbarity when the killers themselves claim to act in the name of Islam by pointing out various verses in the Qur’an and hadiths?
    4) A calm rational person discussing why Islam is a spiritual and ethical advance for humanity that other religions have heretofore missed.
    5) Reading the Qur’an.
    Finally, Islamic Empire: What accounts for the negative opinions so many non-Muslims have of Islam? I just can’t figure out where they come from.

    We know Islamic Empire will not answer to the above question because he/she is a ‘hit and run’ blog-jihadi-troll, in the finest tradition of 7th century Arab desert brigands attacking caravans, taking women slaves and treasure, then slinking off like rats into the desert sands, as their Warlord prophet instructed them.

    The answer to your question is obviously: 6) ALL OF THE ABOVE (#4 is physically impossible for a blog-jihadi). /Scoff…

    Smart cartoon, Bosch!! Here too, funny 5 minute YouTube video, See no Evil..
    … facsimile/parody of NPR office meeting after Fox? … Shush… Don’t say it!…

  72. says

    Hello Battle. I agree with answer #6. But miracles happen, so I’m in favor of waiting for a reply to #4.

    I keep asking IE to write a paragraph, but I’m being unfair. Since JW is very generous with its word count, IE might take two or three or four to paragraphs to explain what Islam has to recommend it. A simple question. Though I know that you and thomas_h are correct that IE is a troll, some other Muslim is free to take up the challenge. That is why I will ask this question of IE every time I see his posts.

  73. says

    I’m sorry ebonystone, I didn’t mean to leave those women out. I was trying to be brief – but also a smart ass.You emphasize the point brilliantly. Where are similar women in Islamic history? Not to be found, obviously, because the Muslim is a gynophobe, and the evidence of that from the Muslim world is staggering and undeniable.

  74. says

    You made a good point there, Sansantiago. So what if a person is “bigoted”? Instead of getting upset at being called names, we can put the onus back on those who find bigotry so unexcusable and unforgivable. If they think we are “bigoted” then they can do some work to show that they can change our entrenched impressions. After all, few people are “bigoted” against decent, reasonable, intelligent people. The name-calling has got out of hand recently – thanks to the ROP.

  75. says

    @Isabellthecrusader. Well, if this thread is exhausted for the “negative opinion of Islam is evidence of bigotry” topic, let me tell you that your defense of the saints was well done. Let me say also that I am a Protestant (Anglican) who sees nothing wrong with praying to the saints. In fact, I wish that more kinds of Protestants did so, because, at the very least, it might help develop the attentive imagination and deepen religious feeling. I know that many Evangelicals consider that heresy, but prayer is prayer. If I’m going to hell, it won’t be for praying to the saints. I don’t believe that prayers are wasted anyway.

  76. says

    Well thank you, Classicus. It always amazes me that people will go to great lengths to tell me that I’m not allowed to talk to the saints when the saints do favors for me every day of my life. If I’m imagining them I must have a very vivid and powerful imagination. What is that verse in the Bible where God says, is my hand shortened that I may not save? Didn’t Jesus give the apostles and His other disciples the power to heal other people, forgive sins and even drink poison with no effect? At least that’s what He says in my Bible. If the saints were given these powers here on earth would Christ take them away from them once they reached the pinnacle of our journey and made it safely into heaven? Illogical but also probably to be expected in some quarters when we take into account human nature. Some people would rather be right at all costs, even if it leaves no help or support for someone else. They are like the Soup Nazi. No miracles for you!

    I have an obligation to tell about these miracles as they relate to the saints because it is part of the promise in the prayer itself. I give it to you here so you can have a copy and so you will be protected by my favorite saint who got the short end of the stick because his name so closely resembles Judas Iscariot who betrayed Our Lord.

    Most Holy apostle St. Jude, faithful servant and friend of Jesus, the Church honors and invokes you as the patron of hopeless cases, of things almost despaired of. Pray for me, I am so helpless and alone. Make use, I implore you, of that particular privilege given to you to bring visible and speedy help where help is almost despaired of. Come to my assistance in this great need that I receive the consolation and help of heaven in all my necessities, tribulations and sufferings, especially (here ask for your special intention,) and that I may praise God with you and all the elect forever. I promise, oh blessed St. Jude, to be ever mindful of this great favor, to always honor you as my special and powerful patron and to gratefully encourage devotion to you.

    The saints already made it to heaven. Who better, after Jesus, to be an example and to guide us in how they did it? Happy Sunday, Classicus!

  77. says

    Love your post! Exactly! We pray with the saints. But who will tug at His heart most effectively, those who go straight to Him or those who enlist the help of His friends who stand before His throne? The saints take our prayers and offer them up to Him. Since they are His best friends, who is He going to listen to first? There is a tradition in the Catholic Church that saints are more powerful on their feast days than any other day of the year. Because they honored God by being fried on griddles (St. Lawrence,) or torn with hooks (St. Christina,) or burned alive (St. Joan of Arc,) or crucified (St. Peter,) or the ones who weren’t martyred but sacrificed their entire lives for him, like St. Damien who helped the lepers on Molokai and became one, or Mother Teresa who regularly rescued dying people out of the gutters of Calcutta or Fr. Jean De Smet who traveled by horseback and on foot over 100,000 miles in the 1800’s to help the American Indians (that’s a fascinating story.) These people were everyday ordinary people but they got God’s attention by doing extraordinary things (and we can learn a lot from them) and they have bee given special favors because of their special sacrifices. And they in turn can pass them onto us, if we only ask. Why did Christ say Ask and you shall receive, seek and you shall find, knock and it shall be open to you if He didn’t mean it? He did mean it and He never lies. I take great comfort in that.

  78. says

    A wonderful prayer. Thank you Isabella. You wrote something in your post that is so important:”Some people would rather be right at all costs,…” (Well, who does that sound like but Muhammad himself?) But as it relates to Christians, what you wrote is true, because, by ever trying to right about everything, the imagination suffers, and the heart slips toward atrophy. The super Soup Nazi appears.

    Also, in that prayer is something very important, “…ask for your special intention.” If we clarified our intentions we would be better off. If we thought more about what is intention and took more care over what is a right intention, we would improve.

    Finally, in case any of the Evangelicals are having fits over the saints idea, I should have said that, “praying to the saints,” is a manner of speaking. The prayers are to God and “prayer” with respect to the saints is more ablative than dative. It’s more like, praying with the saints. The saints are not idols, and that seems to give a lot of people difficulty. It’s right in your prayer,…”that I may praise God with you…”

    Thank you again Isabella, and I hope yours is a happy Sunday as well.