Of course it has. It was based on faulty assumptions: namely, that all cultures essentially share the same values and aspirations for the future. That all cultures are in agreement on some fundamental level on what "freedom," "dignity," "justice," and "human rights" mean, in line with the expectations that Western cultures hold for those terms. That Islamic teachings and laws are fully compatible with Western understandings of the aforementioned terms, or that the differences are nothing that can't be smoothed over with a little "dialogue" and perhaps accommodation.
And lastly, there is the belief that people are really all the same deep down, except for when they're different, and that's always something to celebrate. One who does not buy this bill of goods is branded backwards at best (more "dialogue!"), and hateful at worst.
And that brings us to Europe in 2010. "Merkel: German multiculturalism 'utterly failed'," by Melissa Eddy for the Associated Press, October 17:
BERLIN - Chancellor Angela Merkel's declaration that Germany's attempts to build a multicultural society had "utterly failed" is feeding a growing debate over how to deal with the millions of foreigners who call the country home.
Merkel told a meeting of young members of her conservative Christian Democratic Union that while immigrants are welcome in Germany, they must learn the language and accept the country's cultural norms -- sounding a note heard increasingly across Europe as it battles an economic slump and worries about homegrown terrorism.
The media may blame what but will, but this issue transcends economics and even the threat of terrorism. If there were never another terrorist attack in Europe, the Islamization of the continent and its implications for human rights would still be an issue.
"This multicultural approach, saying that we simply live side by side and live happily with each other has failed. Utterly failed," Merkel said.
Merkel's comments were met with applause by the more conservative members of her party, but some Germans in cosmopolitan Berlin argued Sunday she was out of touch with the country's daily life.
"I think her statement is very black and white and does not reflect honestly the lifestyle people are living here," said Daniela Jonas, a German setting up a flea market in the city's diverse Kreuzberg district, where immigrants and native-born Germans live among each other.
Germany and other European countries have grappled with the idea of themselves as immigration nations and Merkel has long been skeptical of the country's attempts to build a multicultural society that includes its estimated 5 million Muslims.
Many immigrants speak little or no German, work in low paying jobs or live off of government handouts at the same time the country faces an aging population and a shortage of highly skilled workers.
"Germany needs more qualified immigration to maintain its economic advantage and deal with the demographic developments," Volker Beck, a lawmaker with the opposition Greens party said Sunday.
Merkel acknowledged in her Saturday comments that then-West Germany in the 1960s opened its doors to Turkish laborers who helped the nation rebuild from the ruins of World War II. Yet German politicians believed those laborers would eventually return home. Instead, many have stayed and their children's children are now starting families here.
A European Championship football qualifier between Germany and Turkey last week reflected built-up tensions. Star Germany player Mesut Oezil, who is of Turkish heritage, was whistled and booed throughout the game by Turkey fans -- who outnumbered German supporters in Berlin's Olympic stadium.
The 22-year-old Oezil has become Merkel's poster child for successful integration, and Turkish President Abdullah Gul said in an interview Saturday that he supported Oezil's decision to play for Germany instead of his parents' native Turkey.
Gul also called on Turks living in Germany to learn to speak German "fluently and without an accent," but insisted it was up to German politicians to create the opportunities for its Turkish citizens to learn the language and integrate into society.
"That must begin in kindergarten," Gul told the Sueddeutsche Zeitung. "I have told Mrs. Merkel that."
Last week, several German universities launched departments to train imams who would be able to lead prayers in German as well as Turkish. Most imams in Germany are sent from Turkey and speak no German.
As reported here. It would not, however, do anything about the content of Islamic texts and teachings that perpetuate practices inimical to Western standards of human rights and freedom of conscience.
Some argued Sunday that Merkel's comment makes them feel less welcome, and do nothing to encourage integration.
"It's a shame," said a man who gave his name only as Hakim, an immigrant from Morocco. "It is not good for the atmosphere in Germany and it is not a helpful comment."
(Posted this on another, unrelated thread, but reposting here.)
Merkel's statements that multiculturalism has failed in Germany represent a view that has been building for some time within Europe. It is good to see it finally expressed openly, and it is hoped that it will be followed by more and more frequent public statements of a similar sort by other politicians.
Of course, we can now expect a counter-reaction from the Left as they scramble to repair the damage and a flurry of activity by politicians to marginalize and dismiss Merkel. It will be the proverbial one step backward, but it is to be hoped that this will be followed by two more strong steps forward. It would appear that European citizens are becoming as disgusted with their politicians as are Americans with ours.
"It's a shame," said a man who gave his name only as Hakim, an immigrant from Morocco. "It is not good for the atmosphere in Germany and it is not a helpful comment."
You don't belong in Germany. You need to return to Morocco. Something wrong with your Islamic country?
http://newstime.co.nz/german-chancellor-merkel-mulitculti-utterly-failed.html
Merkel monsters multiculturalism
What’s actually failed is the German governments Gestapo’s inability to stop Islamophobia.
Mesut Oezil is THE Muslim flag ship!
http://blip.tv/file/4256810
BUT … 00:55 “Islam is part of Germany”
(Mrs. Merkel & the political elite decide this important issue OVER THE GERMAN PEOPLE’S HEAD [without consulting them])
like in the kindergarten.
This story has really taken off, like it has a life of its own. I'm actually amazed how widespread it is now. As I told a friend earlier, I wonder if this could be the spark that starts the smolder that will develop into the flame that evolves into the conflagration that we all know HAS to come at some point?
Of course I use those terms figuratively, what I mean is the "beginning of meaningful change."
Somehow I doubt this will do it, but it would be nice to see the ball really start to roll...
(UK) Islamic students at top university 'are preaching hard-line extremism,' terror experts warn
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1321264/University-urged-action-Islamic-extremists.html#ixzz12ed4yzgy
Marisol, Merkel demands Israel establish a separate Muslim-enemy state within her territory in order to satisfy her increasingly demanding Muslim minority. If PM Merkel were consistent, why doesn't she establish a separate Muslim autonomous state in Germany in order to satisfy the demands of Germany's growing Muslim minority?
How can I forget what Merkel's people did to my people? Merkel's people behaved like animals in their cruelty, not only to Jews but to many other ethnic subhumans. Now Merkel's Germamny is (genocidal) Iran's biggest trading partner in the EU.
Watch out Britain, you've got it coming...
INSTANT ISLAMISATION!!!!
We are all aware of the threats of creeping shariah, and stealth jihad, but in fact the process of Islamisation of Britain could occur in months, rather than years.
As recent events have shown, the Continental Europeans are rapidly running out of patience with their unwanted guests. It's only a matter of time before the balloon goes up. When that happens, the evicted Muslims will move out, not back to their impoverished ancestral homelands, but to more 'tolerant' (ie suicidal) EU countries, where they will have a perfectly legal right to settle and vote.
So when the shi'ite hits the fan in Germany, France, Holland, Belgium and Denmark (it will probably happen in very quick succession in all countries due to a domino effect), we can expect tens of millions of jihad-crazed 'EU citizens',with murderous resentments against all kuffars, emerging out of the Channel Tunnel demanding their rights.
Has the government got any contingency plans for dealing with this catastrophe?
Or is that a silly question?
You're missing the bigger picture big time, wildjew. This is an enormous step in the right direction. We now have a leader of a major European country openly admitting that multiculturalism and, by implication, political correctness have failed. And yet you want to criticize Merkel and the Germans in general for what she and they have done wrong elsewhere. (I would add that modern Germany has engaged in profusive apologies for what Germans did to Jews before and during WWII. Contrast this with the Japanese who are still in denial about their wrongdoing during the same era.)
Great events come one at a time ordinarily. The surrender by Cornwallis to Washington at Yorktown gave America independence. It didn't free the slaves, give women the right to vote or provide us decaffeinated coffee that tastes as good as regular. You can't get it all at once and you don't seem to grasp this. A major step in the right direction has been taken by Merkel and you want to complain that she hasn't done other things right. Frankly, I think Merkel is looking very good for being bestowed with the international dhimmi of the year award. You're missing the forrest for the trees. Hugely.
wildjew, for once this story isn't about us. I'm not asking you to forget anything, and you are right to push back against the EU's hypocrisy and nonsense. But. We won't overcome the dangers of the 21st century by flogging the Germans for horrors that are past.
An interesting possibility might be to invite a discussion of how Western Values of protecting the rights of the individual, their freedom to search for a deeper understanding of the Creator in their own way, to share their understandings and seek truth together with others, is in keeping with the reality of God portrayed in the opening of all but the Ninth Sura, "In the Name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful!"
That certain groups have grabbed on to the proverbial Indian elephant, felt a tusk and proclaimed that there can only be war. Admittedly the Teachings of the Qur'an re. war are definitely there because Arabia was a very violent state, not unlike a current "narco sate"?
Tolerant understandings did not come easily or quickly for Western Cultures or Governments, but were the product of hundreds of years of religious conflict that distilled to this expression of a "Middle Way" that was expressed above?
Good luck.
When America is begged to save Europe, again, this time it will be for keeps.
Americanization is salvation.
I've always wanted a cottage in the Alps.
Correction: I meant to say "anti-dhimmi," not "dhimmi." Jeesh, you'd think I'd get it right the first time.
I watched the football game against Turkey and it was so telling.
Mrs. Merkel sat next to the turkish prime minister Erdogan. Yes, the same Erdogan who said:
"The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers"
The same Erdogan who said at a rally in Germany to his Turkish compatriots:
"Assimilation is a crime against humanity"
Well she didn't look happy. The football stadium was filled with supporters for Turkey. In fact, the supporters for Turkey far outnumbered the supporters for the German Team. The majority of supporters for Turkey were born and raised in Germany.
We have several players in the German football team with foreign origin. Two from Poland (Podolsky, Klose), one from Spain (Gomez), one from Brazil (Kakaau), one from Tunisia (Khedira, I think he is christian), one from Ghana (Boateng), one from Bosnia (Marin), and one from Turkey (Özil).
Three players in the Turkish national football team were born and raised in Germany.
During the whole game, the Turkish supporters ( ca. 60 000) would collectively booohh and shout and scream whenever Özil got to play the ball. Why? because he chose to play for Germany and not for Turkey. This behavior continued throughout the game. I felt very sorry for the young man.
The only good part was that Özil shot a goal and Turkey was thrashed 3:0.
This whole situation clearly showed to anybody that the integration of Turkish immigrants into German society has utterly failed.
All the best
Bhigr.
The United Nations has fostered and facilitated the resettlement around the world in mainly Christian countries, of the poor and unskilled of Islamic faith. Now we are seeing the fruits of this policy. Islam is spreading rapidly around the Christian world, increasing the Islamic population by having the maximum number of children, who are then supported by the welfare systems of their host countries, burdening the taxpayers who are unwillingly supporting the growth of Islam and terrorism to the detriment of their own Christian culture and way of life. It is, and has been, a planned and calculated invasion, under the guise of humanitarian "aid".
You make a very good point. The fastest way out of it would be to end the welfare state - or at least welfare for immigrants. But even then - it may be "too late" for Europe. But it would be worth a try.
Wellington, what are "profuse apologies for what Germans did to Jews" in light of the fact that Germany is (genocidal) Iran's largest trading partner in the European Union? The Vatican has offered profuse apologies for what individual Christians -- not the Church or Pope Pius XII or any other popes or church officials - did or did not do in behalf of the Jews, yet the Vatican now blames Israel's Jews for the persecution of Christians in the greater Muslim world; the Vatican calls for the establishment of a Muslim-terror state in Israel's Biblical and historic heartland; a Muslim-enemy state dedicated to Israel's destruction. What are we to make of these profuse apologies in light of these hostile acts Wellington?
What you say is true. In the last 2 years no less a paper than the Sunday Times reported that about 1500 Somalis had arrived in one of the east coast towns from Holland.
They did not think the housing and public services were as good as those in Holland but in England they were not forced to integrate, did not need to learn the language, could all live in the same area (i.e. take over an area)and carry on pretty much as they did in Somalia.
One assumes this includes their practice of FGM. The BBC once reported they were responsible for the majority 3000 cases which come to the notice of the authorities each year.
Has the government any contingency plans?
OF COURSE IT HAS!
The BBC will put out even more programmes on the wonders of islam and tell us how lucky we are to be enriched. Any who protest otherwise will be denounced as racist and islamopobic.
Elderly Zionist, did you see this?
Survey: 17% of Germans believe Jews have 'too much influence'
One in 10 Germans want 'new Fuehrer to lead the country with iron fist'; every third German believes foreign immigrants should be expelled if unemployment becomes problem....
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3969418,00.html
http://newstime.co.nz/quran-812-474-smite-ye-above-their-necks-beheading-with-a-knife-or-sword.html
Quran 8:12 + 47:4 “smite ye above their necks”
(beheading with a knife or sword)
This shows how merciful Allah is...
The Religion of Peace™, Mrs. Merkel
Germany made the mistake of going jus soli back in the 90s. It will be pretty hard to get rid of the Turks now without the obligatory Nuremberg and Nazi references.
How exactly does the Vatican blame Israeli Jews for persecution of Christians "in the greater Muslim world?" Specifics please.
As for the establishment of a Palestinian state, my understanding is that Germany has made it, the Vatican too, as President Bush did, very clear that such a state should live in peace with Israel, be democratic and acknowledge Israel's existence. Were these conditions met, I have no doubt that the vast majority of Israeli Jews would welcome this. Problem is not with the proposal but with that fact that the Arab Muslim world is full of hate for Israel and wants no Israel at all (at least here I think we can agree). Hell, Israel has been prepared since 1948 to have its small country and nothing more IF ONLY the Arab Muslim world would just leave it alone. It hasn't and therein lies the real problem, not Western powers proposing a Palestinian Arab state that would be in no way a threat to Israel. Come on. Western politicians regularly play this game about a peaceful Palestinian state knowing full well the chances of it occurring are next to nil. That way, Western politicians can say to the Arabs, hey, we're not against you guys but...
But back to Merkel. Here we have a major European leader announcing very publicly that, in effect, Muslims in Europe is a phenomenon that has not worked out. I'm certain that Merkel wasn't directing her comments to Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, etc. in Europe but only to Muslims. This is a brave and bold step and a move in the right direction. I mean a major step. And what do you do? You throw cold water on it by, in essence, maintaining everything must be done at once or your criticism will be forthcoming. One step at a time, wildjew. Ah, if only you could understand this. And this was a very big step, though you apparently have missed it while looking at all the negatives (or perceived negatives) that still exist.
@wildjew
It may have slipped your attention that the European Union and in particular Germany have called for and implemented more sanctions against the state of Iran. Europe has become tougher on Iran than Obama or Russia.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-10758328
Furthermore, Germany has been aiding Israel financially and militarily since it exists. The last major gifts were several submarines used by Israel for its nuclear deterrence.
So, there may be just reasons to complain about Germany. But try to be fair.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNQZpuCx36Q
Now let me say something to the survey you mentioned. The Friedrich Ebert Stiftung is part of the socialist party in Germany. Therefore, I do not think that its study about "right wing extremism" in Germany is unbiased. For example, the study equates anti islamic attitudes with right wing extremism. I have the study here and can tell you more about it if you like.
The negative impact of 'multiculturalism'in Europe goes deep.
Germany is an important case-study. Here's an essay on its impact on Britain:
'Multiculturalism' (by Paul Weston)
http://paulweston101.blogspot.com/2007/04/multiculturalism-merits-debits.html
The 'liberal-left' political elite in Europe, including the European Union bureaucracy is in denial about the negative impact of mass immigration, 'cultural relativism', and consequent Islamization of Europe.
The only thing, Merkel's been back and forth so much (recently announced that Germany will become Muslim) that one must ask: how much stock can we put in this latest statement?
Remember, this came right on the heels of her slamming Geert Wilders and the PPV for no real reason.
I would not be at all surprised if she ends up taking it back and apologizing, though I hope she won't, and I hope her message was a genuine expression of concern.
Still, in a way, she reminds me of my bi-polar Aunt Catherine...
@Eleanor well yes, she does tend to go back and forth. So, we don't know yet where this will end.
But, surprisingly or not, she does take a stand once in a while. Mrs. Merkel invited the Danish cartoonist Westergard and publicly honored him, I think he got some German order for his bravery.
She grew up in East Germany and she knows what a dictatorship is. So, you shouldn't underestimate her.
If the polls support Merkel's comments, she'll stick with'em and expect more as well.
Remember we're talking about a politician.
She'll be watering down her statement in a couple of days.
She is a politician,after all.
I saw this story the past day or so. Forgive me for not studying it in detail. Feel free to criticize these implications.
http://www.haaretz.com/news/international/bishops-blame-israeli-palestinian-conflict-for-spurring-christian-exodus-from-mideast-1.318870
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/2010/01/31/vatican-blames-israel-for-persecution-of-christians/
Wildjew,
What the Germans under the Nazis did to the Jews of Europe and to others will never be forgotten. I understand it perfectly that when Jewish people say "never again," some of them mean, "never again to the Jews." But I'm sure that many many Jewish people mean, "never again to anybody." What compassionate person can look at what the Jews suffered and wish it to happen again?
The more people read the Qur'an and the other Islamic books, the more they will see what the true threat of Islam is. Other conflicts around the world might be better understood as something other than simple than local political problems, or fights over resources - Darfur for instance.
Merkle is taking the first steps that may finally begin shake the blinders from the eyes of liberals. We can only hope.
I enjoy your posts on JW because your comments are so often pithy, succinct, and funny. I wish that I could write as well as you do. But I have to agree with Wellington here. I hope you don't think that this is too much of a scold - it isn't meant to be a scold.
Free people everywhere are under threat from Islam: political Islam, Sharia Islam, religious Islam - every aspect of free life is shadowed by Islam's sword, whether that sword is metaphorical or literal. Islam would control everything. And that means something dire, yet again, for the Jews.
People who think that they can make peace with Islam are profoundly mistaken. If they think that they might appease the Muslims by sacrificing Israel, they ought to think again. I believe that most Christians and most fair-minded people who know anything about history understand that very well. If you must worry about the Germans, worry about them later. Consider what Islamic Jihad wants now.
Islam will not stop until it is forced to stop; but I hope the arrest of Islam will be as peaceful as possible.
For most of the JWatchers, that Muslims in Turkey have “difficulty” adjusting should be no surprise.
A recent video of mine addresses a similar issue:
Why have Pakistan and India, created from the landmass called British India, evolved so differently, despite sharing so much - including language, culture, food habits, and more?
Could some of the prominent features of Islam be responsible for Pakistan becoming a fountainhead of terror and a nation subsisting on foreign assistance?
http://www.moorthymuthuswamy.com/Pakistan-India.html
It must have been the football game; that experience and the discomfort it caused her may have made her lose sleep. Maybe in the dark hours she grappled with reality and decided to finally bite the bullet. Because yes, it does seem odd after what she has said recently. Possibly, just possibly, she has started to think, as I have, that the sooner we face up to the enemy the sooner the ensuing horror will be over, one way or another. After all, it is entirely against normality to walk into slavery without an attempt at a fight.
Epistemology, was halten Sie davon?
"Merkel acknowledged in her Saturday comments that then-West Germany in the 1960s opened its doors to Turkish laborers who helped the nation rebuild from the ruins of World War II"
This is an outrage! Absolute claptrap. Muslims had no, absolutely no part in rebuilding Germany.
Muslim Turks did not arrive until the late sixties. By that time Germany was already rebuild and booming. Muslim Turks got jobs as low level laborers and cleaners. That's all they were good for.
Merkel is nuts. This will backfire on her!
bhigr, you wrote: "So, there may be just reasons to complain about Germany. But try to be fair....."
Why should I forget what the German people did to my people? Are you willing to forgive and forget what little (by comparison) Muslims did to America on 9/11? Are you willing to forgive and forget these brutal sneak attacks on innocent Americans? Why is Germany (and for that matter) America, led by our Muslim-born President, on the side of these savages bhigr?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KrM0dAFsZ8k
Why are you taking the side of these enemies of humanity? Why do you defend these people? Why do you defend Germany who supports these people?
"Why should I forget what the German people did to my people?" Did I ask you to forget? No! That's completely up to you and if you choose not to forgive or forget, that's fine with me.
9/11? I am not in the position to forgive or forget what happened to America. Only Americans can do that. I am German not American.
What else? I defend Germany because I am German. With regard to your video: Germany does not support these people. Germany supported the US in the war against terrorism. Germany is fighting with NATO in Afghanistan and has been doing so since the 9/11 attacks.
Thanks, sheik: that sounded bizarre to me, too. Maybe she was trying to be polite, as in, "Thanks for the help which we think you gave us. Now would you mind, um, leaving?"
This is the beginning of something Big. When some 70% of the crime rate in Europe is by Muslim immigrants and their offsprings, and an astounding 80% of welfare dole, then it is time for Europeans, the real Europeans who have lived there for thousands of years, to sit up and pay attention... and vote. Merkel is aware of this, as are members of her party, and so is stating the obvious. Multikulti does not work!
Here are some World Diversity Patterns figures, FYI:
Note that indigenous Europeans (about 12.9%) are a very small minority on the world stage, so can be easily swamped by immigration, especially if that immigration has an agenda to out-breed them, and are inherently hostile (racist) to the indigenous Whites.
Though much maligned for saying so, and forced into resignation from his bank post,
Sarrazin was right.
Now he's being vindicated? Let's see how far they dare go with this. Muslim immigrants will be given three choices: 1) sit quiet and grumble but stop asking for concessions and stop agitating, 2) assimilate fully into European culture with language and modern social values, or 3) leave.
Let's see how this plays out, both in Germany and the rest of Europe. Halloo?! France, England, you paying attention?
Classicus, thanks. I find it hard to sympathize with Germany and the west, even as they seek Israel's destruction at the hands of the Muslim killers. Even America is on the side of the jihad against Israel. Why is this? Former President George W. Bush exacerbated America's estrangement with Israel only days after the 9/11 Muslim terror atrocities perpetrated by his good friends, the Saudis. Now we have a Muslim-born president with deep antipathy toward the Jews. Why is American headed toward this love-affair with Islam and the destruction of Israel? Do you know?
So, you shouldn't underestimate her.
------------------
Underestimate? No. Worry that her vascillating and inconsistencies over a relatively short period of time may indicate some form of instability? Perhaps.
Hope that my concern is completely unfounded?
Absolutely.
Merkel, I would argue, Eleanor, is but the beginning of a much larger movement. Even assuming she backtracks, her words are still out there about the failure of multiculturalism, such failure being due overwhelmingly to Islam's adherents' incapacity for graciousness or an insistence that all should bend to them and not they to others.
Merkel is, in effect, merely the tip of the iceberg respecting the elites in the Western world finally waking up to the fact that Islam is a religion like no other (this will mean that the Jimmy Carters, Whoopi Goldbergs, Gordon Browns and Barack Obamas of the world will be eventually assigned to that great trash heap of history known as Oblivion). This is huge. And, as is usually the case, big things ordinarily have small beginnings, like the giant oak tree. Put Merkel in this context, and look ahead a half century or so, and I see a move to blue horizons for freedom and the darkest of dark places for a religion that should have never gotten off the ground in the first place.
Much of what mankind engages in is an error. Never has this been truer than about Islam. And the world is slowly waking up to this fact. Here's what I'm certain of: Truth is a very stubborn thing and never goes away, though sometimes it is very much hidden temporarily. Islam has NOTHING to do with the truth. Therefore, Islam is doomed. This rough version of an Aristotelian syllogism will play out in the end, but not before many more people are maimed and killed because Islam is accorded a respect it simply does not deserve. Such respect will ultimately be withdrawn by the human race, but it's going to be very bloody before that happens. And there will be many chapters to this story. Merkel's admission is "merely" one of them. This is how I see the bigger picture and Merkel's role in it.
Hope all is well with you and yours and that you and them can relatively soon enjoy a fine Lebanon Bologna sandwich. Take good care, Eleanor.
I have a German customer who claims she is embarrassed at German crimes. She hates what the Nazis did. But at the same time she is on the side of the so-called "Palestinians." How about you? Where do you stand?
You wrote: "I defend Germany because I am German. With regard to your video: Germany does not support these people...."
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Germany does indeed support these people. So does France and the UK. Merkel supports these people in their drive to destroy Israel. So does the US.
Is that Angela "Deal with it" Merkel?
She did say anything like this before.
I do believe her aboutface is due to Geert Wilder. Angela actually stuck her nose in danish affairs, and he told her in a nice way, to mind her own business.Hehe. This must have shocked her brain, so that now she's out of her zombie state. Hope she keeps it up!
Ho boy! Things they are a'changing!
I can't make a judgement about all palestinians. I am against those palestinians which seek the destruction of Israel. Therefore, I am against Hamas. You will find that this is the unanimous position among German political parties, except for the communist party, the former party of East Germany. A Jewish friend of mine recently left the party because he didn't like their stand on this matter. But, I would have to ask him for details. I don't vote for communists - he used to be a hardline communist, but fortunately, he is finally beginning to see the light.
Merkel is a Stasi plant. Her IM (interner Mitarbeiter) secret name was "Erika". Her records are sealed, just like those of the Marxist Muslim POTUS Hussein Obama.
She is a Socialist rat chewing away at the conservative fabric of the CDU, the conservative Christian party which is now so far to the left that it almost comes out the other end.
Merkel knows little about free market economy because she grew up in communist East Germany.
The scandal about this speech, that 'Multiculturalism has "utterly failed" in Germany' is that she said exactly the same thing 2 years ago, but nobody cared.
What she's saying now is not really different: its 'our fault', we 'have to do more to integrate Turks & Arabs', she is still for Turkey in the EU, (a nightmare) and she even initiated to train imams on German universities to the tune of 30 million dollars per annum.
Her claim that "Turks helped to rebuild Germany after the war" will come to haunt Germans for decades, if not centuries. Merkel needs to check into a mental institution!
Sorry, Wilders is the Netherlands. I keep confusing Denmark and the Netherlands.
Thanks for the two links, wildjew. I read them as indicative of the fact that some Catholic prelates blame Israel too much and others understand that blaming Israel is not the way to proceed. To the extent that the Catholic Church excoriates Israel for the continued tragedy which is the modern Middle East, I am with you. But I see many nuances here and detect as well that a multitude of Catholics, in the Middle East and throughout the world, know full well that the real problem is Islam and certainly not Israel.
Speaking personally, I do not know of a single Catholic who blames Israel for the mess which is the Middle East today. As I posted here before at JW, my own Italian-American Catholic plumber has on the back of his work van the following bumper sticker: "Fight terrorism. Support Israel." And my German-American Catholic next-door neighbor told me that he was largely indifferent to Israel before 9/11, but since then he has become a complete supporter of the Jewish state.
I submit to you that Israel has great friends among the Catholic community and among the Christian community at large. Time to think upbeat.
I am sorry, but Merkel is against Turkey becoming part of the European Union.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8592170.stm
She has offered Turkey instead a "privileged partnership" instead of full EU membership.
bhiger: COWARDLY GERMANS! COWARDLY FENCH! COWARDLY ENGLISH!
Condemnation across Europe after Israel raid on "Freedom" (sic) Flotilla
Merkel, Sarkozy, Cameron criticize Israel
In the past day German Chancellor Angela Merkel called for end of Israel's Gaza blockade, British Prime Minister David Cameron urged Israel to listen to its critics, and French president Nicolas Sarkozy called the attack a “disproportionate use of force.”
Israel's killing of the activists on international aid flotilla came after Israeli commandos rappelled from a helicopter onto one of the ships. The assault on the ship, which was in international waters, followed a string of recent events that have damaged Israel's image in Europe.
http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2010/0601/Condemnation-across-Europe-after-Israel-raid-on-Freedom-Flotilla
Sean: "Has the government got a contingency plan?" Silly question! Of course, they do. Only they've left, We, the People outside.
I could tell you what I think, but that's a long story!
With the number of unemployed among immigrant people, one has to wonder how true it is when they claim we need immigrants to continue to support the economy and wellfare state. You might even wonder, if they had not been present the drain on unemployment benefits, costs to crime fighting, etcetera would'ne have been as severe as it has been. For over 40 years. Who knows what impact they really had. Then again, I'm no economist.
This looks like a private fight, so I am weary of entering it. But in yours:
I have a German customer who claims she is embarrassed at German crimes. She hates what the Nazis did. But at the same time she is on the side of the so-called "Palestinians." How about you? Where do you stand?
Are you thinking that Nazi Germany, the one soundly defeated in WW II is the same as modern EU Germany? They're not the same! I would think that it was Nazis who would feel at home "siding with 'Palestinian" than modern EU Germans. Your femme German customer has an emotional response to the issue, not one well reasoned out, if she sides with murderous Jihadi Palestinians. Is this perhaps your problem here too, wildjew, that your are emotionally attached to what happened nearly three quarters of a century ago? We, the Free Democratic World, won against Nazi Germany, it no longer exists. Move on. The realization today is that we may have to fight this war all over again, not against Germany, but against Islam and its barbaric 7th century medieval repressive enslaving ideology, like Nazism. Leave your emotions at the door, and think clearly. This argument is stupid, and tedious.
Eleanore wrote:
The only thing, Merkel's been back and forth so much (recently announced that Germany will become Muslim) that one must ask: how much stock can we put in this latest statement?
................
I agree, Eleanor. Merkel's inconsistency has been driving me crazy. I imagine it is because modern German society is *so* oriented to knee-jerk multi-culturalism that her opposition has been sporadic and piecemeal.
Of course, this does not let let Ms. Merkel off the hook. Nonetheless, seeing one of Europe's most prominent leaders at least occasionally acknowledge the threat of Islam and out-of-control Muslim immigration into the heart of Europe is a good thing.
I do agree, though, that she is likely to be an inconsistent ally, at best—at least until she finally decides where she stands.
Slightly off topic.
So, then. Please, anyone. Was Milosevic right? Was he vilified unjustly?
I'm hearing more and more,that the U.S. fought on the wrong side. But what's new in that, seeing what's going on here, now.
Wellington, I submit to you, Israel has very few friends in the Catholic church. Robert Spencer and a few other prominent Catholics speak out in defense of Israel but even Spencer is in denial about his church's historic anti-Jewish history. This German pope, Pope Benedict is decidedly on the side of the jihad against Israel. Historically the Vatican has been anti-Jewish. The Vatican never supported the re-gathering of the Jews back into our land. Vatican fought against modern Israel for decades. Let's not get into Pope Pius XII, "Hitler's Pope."
This is what Merkel said:
In her statement, Merkel said, “I have asked the Israeli prime minister to lift the blockade of Gaza, because it is not good, for humanitarian reasons. At the same time, however, one must say that Hamas would do well to finally recognize Israel's right to exist.”
Merkel urged the Turkish government to defuse the situation. "We are deeply concerned, also by the possibility that it could lead to an escalation. For that reason, I have asked Turkish Prime Minister [Recep Tayyip Erdogan] to do everything to prevent such an escalation,” said Merkel.
“Proportionality is an important international requirement. According to our current knowledge, we must seriously ask whether it was adhered to. It is possible that it was not adhered to," she stressed. “We still do not have sufficient information. I have asked that the information be made available as quickly as possible, and have of course also asked for information as quickly as possible about the Germans on board."
http://www.jpost.com/International/Article.aspx?id=177164
There is one thing that is concerns me wildjew. There are many countries that want to support Israel, but you seem to regard everybody as an enemy. The French, the British, the Americans,...
So what you are saying is this. It's best to forget the past.
Oh, here is what Norman Finkelstein thinks about Mrs. Merkel:
Pity Angela Merkel wasn’t on the delegation; because she is a Nazi (supporter of Israel)
IDF troops do nothing as Hebron settlers threaten German MPs
04.18.2008 | Ha'aretz
By Barak Ravid, Haaretz Correspondent, and The Associated Press
A group of Jewish settlers in Hebron insulted and threatened a visiting German parliamentary delegation touring the West Bank city on Thursday. The German embassy in Israel protested to the Foreign Ministry that Israel Defense Forces soldiers and police officers did nothing to stop the settlers’ attacks. The German group cut short its visit to the city after the incident.
The IDF declined to comment on the incident, while the Israeli embassy in Berlin issued an apology....
http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/pity-angela-merkel-wasnt-on-the-delegation-because-she-is-a-nazi-supporter-of-israel/
Now if Norman Finkelstein calls you a Nazi, then you must be doing the right thing;-)
You wrote: “Proportionality is an important international requirement. According to our current knowledge, we must seriously ask whether it was adhered to. It is possible that it was not adhered to," she stressed. “
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You can't be serious. Come on. Proportionality with jihad terrorists. Proportionality with murderous Muslim terrorists. Are you serious? You and your PM are joking.
Aren't you? You are joking bhigr. Please tell me you are joking.
"Hope all is well with you and yours and that you and them can relatively soon enjoy a fine Lebanon Bologna sandwich. Take good care, Eleanor."
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Ha! Got me some Seltzer's in the fridge right now! And yes, all are well, thank you! I hope the same for you and yours.
"Merkel is, in effect, merely the tip of the iceberg respecting the elites in the Western world finally waking up to the fact that Islam is a religion like no other"
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Yes, this could be. I really hope so. Did you see Tony Blair recently when he admitted that at the time of 9/11 (or was it 7/7?), he really knew nothing of the realities of Islam? Now, to me at least, he appears to be in a bit of a panic - perhaps beginning to understand what he and Labor let loose upon Britain.
Wellington, we must never underestimate the resiliancy-factor when it comes to Islam. Look how many inroads they've already made in the West.
It's going to require a sea change in attitudes, of hundreds of millions of people who do not yet see, who at this moment do not yet understand.
I truly fear what it might take to effect such a sea change. But a sea change, I think, we must have.
Or, do you think that's overblown? Is it possible that, at this point with all the inroads they've made, if we were to just collectively "buck up" and tell Muslims in no uncertain terms how-it's-a-gonna-be, that it can all be resolved short of some kind of war, or series of wars?
Who cares what this self-loathing Jewish traitor says bhigr?
Does it matter what this loathsome man thinks and says?
Proportionality? It means your reaction must be proportional to the threat. If someone throws stones at you - even if they are muslim terrorists - and react by dropping an atomic bomb on them, well that is "unproportional". I think it is a common notion accepted by all civilized people!
I don't care what he says. But if he calls you a Nazi because you support the state of Israel, then I take that as a badge of honor! He's not stupid, he is just blinded by his self hatred.
What do you think of the Allied firebombings of German cities during the second world war? Proportional?
What about the American Nuclear bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Proportional?
Are you ready to tangle with some three million angry and bitter Americans who are proud of these bombings? Will you condemn America for disproportionality?
wildjew l would ask you who are the worst of enemies? they are the ones from within, you have the "self-hating Jews" living within Israel who go to protests with their muslim islmaists right now going against the proposed "pledge of allegiance" now what is worse than that! Before you go on putting down Catholics, English, Germans, French people for the deaths of Jews in the past realize that there are many good people then and now who support Israel as a Jewish State, and we Have A Common Enemy!!! and its islam! so stop and think before you look even more foolish!
So what you are saying is this. It's best to forget the past.
No! We don't forget the past, we honor it and learn from it. But we also don't get stuck there, so we move on.
You and Israel have many friends here in our anti-Jihad efforts. Honor that, don't crap on those who wish Israel victory over those barbaric 'Palestinians' so called. See this as a civilizational war that transcends any wars we had in the past. This is Big. Clear heads will win this, not silly people who (as your German customer) would side with those murderous louts out of the 7th century. There is a very simple solution to all this: Stop Islamic immigration to the West, and have the Arab/Muslim world accept Israel's right to exist as a Jewish/democratic secular state. That's all it takes, period. Blaming Germans of today for what their stupid Nazi forebears did is nonsense, inappropriate. Sure, it was horrible. I personally lost family in that war to Nazism, and some barely survived the hunger and abuse, even torture by SS. We all have pain. But let's move on, because this upcoming fight is Big. It will need clear headed Big people to face this ignorant stubborn superstitious enemy. But we must be cool, not become like the hysterical conspiracy riddled enemy. We can win this. Europe and its allies, including Israel, can win this.
Firebombings of German cities. Well, they didn't target the military, they targeted civilians. According to international law a war crime. Sure, The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Same same, but different.
I have disputed this with angry Americans and Brits. But, the usual reaction is: Nazi, holocaust, well, you can imagine. Two wrongs make a right, except, well ...
But few Brits do have a sense of humor. I remember talking to a British judge and he complained about cologne and how ugly it was. He said it should be torn down. So I answered, you know how that works, just send over your bombers once again. Well he did laugh, sort of;-) But not really, don't mention the war! ;-)
"l would ask you who are the worst of enemies? they are the ones from within, you have the "self-hating Jews" living within Israel who go to protests with their muslim islmaists right now going against the proposed "pledge of allegiance" now what is worse than that!"
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I would agree. These are pretty d-mn loathsome. Enemies within, no question about it.
It's interesting that this story was also posted on Huffington Post. Somewhat to my surprise most posters there actually agree with Merkel's statements, albeit for reasons tending to emphasize the practical side of assimilation as opposed to the negative effects of Islam. Of course, there are the usual number of useful idiots with comments suggesting Merkel is the new face of Nazism. (Somewhat OT, but I find it interesting that Merkel has a PhD in quantum chemistry. But then, Jimmy Carter had an advanced degree in nuclear engineering, and a lot of good it did him or the rest of us. lol)
"You and Israel have many friends here in our anti-Jihad efforts....."
Sorry, I disagree. We have very (very) few friends in the West. Most of the West, lead by the United States, is trying to sacrifice Israel to the global jihad, just as England and France sacrificed tiny Czechoslovakia to the Nazis at Munich, 1938. This is what Bush and now Obama are doing. I see the West on the side of the global jihad. Every nation has a decision to make. Every nation that supports a Muslim-enemy state in Israel is on the side of the global jihad. You (America) are feeding the crocodile and hoping he will eat you last BoT.
But, well, I don't want to turn this blog into a discussion about the second world war. Yes, Nazi-Germany started it, yes, the allies had the right to fight and defeat Germany (jus ad bellum). Yes the holocaust was horrible and the pictures from the camps are disgusting and incredible. I do not deny that it ever happened and I feel sorry that it was committed in the name of my people. Al right?
I don't ask you to forget or forgive. Just bear in mind that I was personally not involved nor was Mrs. Merkel.
"If someone throws stones at you - even if they are muslim terrorists - and react by dropping an atomic bomb on them, well that is "unproportional". I think it is a common notion accepted by all civilized people!"
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I would ask, just rhetorically: How long must civilized people remain civilized in the face of unceasing barbarity?
Imagine someone throwing stones at you (and frequently insults, threats, plus bullets, bombs, rockets, and shrapnel as well) for 62-years running, and of course you do respond, but - clearly - not in any way that stops them...until one day you finally drop an atomic bomb on them: 62-years after the first stone/hail of bullets/rocket/suicide bomber in a Tel Aviv Cafe.
Would that then be an unproportional response?
I might argue that all-in-all, your well of incredible patience and fortitude was so vast as to be almost bottomless.
Almost.
"Sorry, I disagree. We have very (very) few friends in the West. Most of the West, lead by the United States, is trying to sacrifice Israel to the global jihad, just as England and France sacrificed tiny Czechoslovakia to the Nazis at Munich, 1938. This is what Bush and now Obama are doing. I see the West on the side of the global jihad. Every nation has a decision to make. Every nation that supports a Muslim-enemy state in Israel is on the side of the global jihad. You (America) are feeding the crocodile and hoping he will eat you last BoT."
Wow, you are doing everything to alienate your friends. I hope your political leaders know your friends, because you need them. So long!
the term proportionality is a somewhat fuzzy term, so we can dispute all night long about specific cases. I just wanted to make an extreme case to show what it means. In German criminal law it limits how you can react in self defense to an assault. So for example, according to our legal tradition, shooting someone because he trespasses your lawn, is disproportional. But legal traditions may differ.
You (America) are feeding the crocodile and hoping he will eat you last BoT.
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wildjew, why don't you take a break? Go take a walk or something? You remind me of the stories my one Uncle, who was stationed in England in WWII, used to tell about the Brits he dealt with who always complained that the Yanks didn't give a shit about Britain and the Yanks were only in it for themselves and the Yanks would sell Britain down the river if the deal was good enough and the Yanks were only there to steal the Brits girlfriends, etc.
Was that true? Well, the Yanks were stealing a LOT of girlfriends (LOL), but as to the other stuff? NO.
We are allies, and you are just frustrated right now. The American people, overwhelmingly, support Israel and will not allow Israel to be destroyed, despite what you think of our current government.
America will be back, we are not going away for long. In fact, the heart and soul of America is intact, but is currently represented by the forces of darkness.
Remember, it is always darkest right before the dawn.
So for example, according to our legal tradition, shooting someone because he trespasses your lawn, is disproportional. But legal traditions may differ.
--------
Oh yeah, I agree. I do wonder, though, how much patience a society should be required to have in such long-term cases.
Our forefathers, say, 100 years ago, would never have put up with 60 plus years of such hostility.
Of course, 100-years ago there were no nukes...and I guess that makes all the difference.
Sorry, I disagree. We have very (very) few friends in the West. Most of the West, lead by the United States, is trying to sacrifice Israel to the global jihad, just as England and France sacrificed tiny Czechoslovakia to the Nazis at Munich, 1938.
Okay wildjew, you lost me here... Like I said, I was weary to enter this private knife fight, so I must beg off. How can I answer with reason paranoia? I can only repeat my earlier:
..."But we must be cool, not become like the hysterical conspiracy riddled enemy."
Shalom (salaam) ;-)
Well, it's a very difficult situation for israel, in particular because of the propaganda war. So palestinians let children throw stones and Israeli solders react and kill one of those children. What is the public reaction: Israeli soldiers kill palestinian children! But, what should be the reaction: Palestinians make their children fight wars!
Since jihad has reached our shores, in Madrid, London, New York people are beginning to understand what is going on. Furthermore, Hamas and Hizbollah are fighting proxy wars. Mr. Ahmadinehads visit to Lebanon showed this in every detail. So, in a way Israel is at war with Iran and the supporters of Hamas...
No, you're correct, Eleanor. We must have a sea change in attitude. But it will come (it's already coming), of course, only after too long of a time though it should come earlier---but it won't. As Churchill observed, America always does the right thing after exploring evey other possibility (including, it seems, an experiment with a very vapid form of hope and change). Ditto for all the West I fear in this instance.
Freedom will prevail in the long run. I just can't see anything as tyrannical, limited and stupid as Islam winning out over everything else, but it's going to be a bloody affair in the meantime. I damn Islam for this. And I damn Muslims for it too, including those clueless, gutless, useless Muslims often referred to as moderates. They continue to cling to an evil ideology and I have little patience with this. I also damn modern liberalism, which continues to function as a shrill for Islam's nefarious and freedom-crushing designs (Whoopi Goldberg would be a good poster girl for this extra special type of idiocy).
But the good guys will prevail. Of this I'm as certain as I am of anything. But again, victory over tyranny will occur only after a great mess of things has transpired. Ah, man seldom learns.
I wanted to mention, there's a guy I keep seeing on O'Reilly, Dr. Zuhdi Jasser, the President and founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy, who seems very, very impressive. Have you seen him or do you know anything about him or his organization?
This man says all the right things, which makes me wonder about him because what he says seriously qualifies him for apostate-status, frankly.
Of course, it could all just be taqiyya.
I would like to be able to believe that the form of Islam that he seems to espouse is possible (but I really don't), but then I remember what Robert has said about such "reformers," that they are sincere but that their following is so small that they effectively have no power and no significance in the Ummah, if in fact they are even considered to be real Muslims at all.
Ironically, if I were a radical Islamist planning a takeover by stealth, I would want Jasser to be my spokesman and NOT Hooper and the rest of the obvious hoods at CAIR. LOL!
I have not only seen him, Eleanor, but wrote to him once. I do think he's sincere but I also think he's naive. He really does believe in a good Islam and I gave up on that long ago. Might as well try to find a good Marxism or fascism. No totalitarian ideology is reformable and if Islam isn't a totalitarian ideology, then there is no such thing.
"How can I forget what Merkel's people did to my people? Merkel's people behaved like animals in their cruelty, not only to Jews but to many other ethnic subhumans. Now Merkel's Germamny is (genocidal) Iran's biggest trading partner in the EU."
As a Jeckes I reject your concept of collective guilt. My personal experience with Germans and Germany is about 50:50, I don't think its much different in the US.
The EU collectively trades with Iran. Germany's big firms are out and those who sold military related equipment were taken to court. That doesn't mean there are not some who still do it, but China is Iran's biggest trading partner and they have no scruples. Russia is not far behind. Switzerland is playing this game too.
One of the biggest traitors to our cause (anti-jihad) is Stephan Kramer, a convert to Judaism (beats me how one converts to Judaism) who heads Germany's Central Committee of Jews. Kramer is a disgrace and sounds more like a mad Muslim than a Jew. I suspect he is a plant.
If you can read German, here's a link:
http://www.pi-news.net/2010/10/stephan-kramer-nennt-horst-seehofer-schaebig/
I have also seen Dr. Zuhdi Jasser on O'Reilly, Eleanor. As Wellington has pointed out he has no following and no standing within the global Ummah. He appears to mean well, but as far as I'm concerned he's like David Duke, the pleasant, well spoken front man for the KKK. The camera loves him, so he's a much better guest on O'Reilly than bearded screamers with hooks and eye patches and wagging fingers, so he gets the air time. The MSM is desperate to find non-threatening guys like him, so if he plays his cards well he could do rather well playing the good cop.
But my guess is that all the soft mushy stuff Zuhdi Jasser says makes hard core, observant Muslims cringe behind the scenes. They'll hold off on the fatwa calling for his head as long as he is useful for PR purposes. I'll continue to watch him, but won't take him too seriously until he comes down solidly in favor of Israel's right to exist and condemns Hamas and Hezbollah, rips into the clerics in both al-Azhar and Qom for their continued insistence on the superiority of Shariah over secular laws, and publicly supports Robert's five recommendations for what Islam must do to peacefully coexist with other religions in the world. His credibility would also improve if he had a few death threats against his life from Muslims, and traveled with body guards.
Wildjew: Stop with the past, already.l You have an obsession with it. Take the Wisdom only and set the rest of it down.
What is the Wisdom? Never again to hide behind the door, while the police drag away neighbors at night. Solzhenitsin learned that too. Rather, we must open the door together, to confront the evil, face to face.
You say, that the West has sacrificed israel. I MUST remind you of the division that is the Fed and then there's the Grass roots. The fov. is NOT the People. What the gov. does, is not the feeling of The People. You can take the example of the UK. I can imagine the Grassroots taking themselves to the Pubs, having their beer and lunch, while fuming, smoke coming from their ears, at the actions of the gov.
This thing is happening worldwide. And you can bet your bottom dollar, that the govs. are hand-in-glove together, related to each other by bloodlines, and ready to sacrifice us, throw us under the train.
It's NOT We, the People!
Correction: The GOVERNMENT is NOT the People. What the gov. does, is not the feeling of The People.
Positive reinforcement, ladies and gentlemen.
Positive reinforcement should be applied.
If she says something halfway sensible, write to her and express polite agreement and encouragement (and offer a bit of extra information, to help her refine her aim; try to push her toward the realization that it isn't ALL immigrants who are a problem, it's the MUSLIMS, and that the problem with Muslims is not due to their genes or their language/s, but simply and solely *Islam*, that is, the theo-political ideology that programs them to behave in all kinds of horrible ways).
If she says something silly, either ignore her, or send her a brief, frostily polite rebuke.
At the moment, the non-Muslim voters, all over Europe, do outnumber the Muslims.
The politicians - perhaps subliminally cued by the success of Mr Wilders' party - are floating trial balloons, testing the waters...are there VOTES in this? If they get enough signals indicating that, yes, there are a LOT of votes to be got from standing up to Islam...well, it could get interesting.
Thanks Wellington, and Eastview. I figured he was proabably too good to be true. I agree with your view of Islam by the way, Wellington.
With Jasser though, I will say that it's nice to hear a Muslim get on there and talk smack about other key Muslims. He really has unloaded on Rauf and Doozy Con at times.
A little bit of perception with the "folks at home," as O'Really calls his audience, can go a long way.
I am going to file this one under:
"Evidence of the west's "final one way experiment" resulting in the methodical destruction of indigenous european culture by encouraging and facilitating Muslim immigration and for their politicians to only make occasional public statements about it"
Yup, that's it.
You wrote: "The GOVERNMENT is NOT the People. What the gov. does, is not the feeling of The People."
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No. America is "government of the people, by the people...." This government IS the people. It represents the people. What this government is doing to Israel IS the feeling of the American people and even if it isn't, God will hold the American people accountable for what
"their" government does.
wildjew, I see that many Jews have a psychological need to fight Nazis, a wish fulfillment. Popular entertainment panders to this need. In movie after movie, TV show after TV show, Jews triumph over Nazis. Not how it was in real life.
But it's too easy to fight Nazis, they were defeated long ago, it's useless, a waste of time. Hitler is dead, Eichman is dead, Demyanyuk is a pathetic old man, Pope Benedict was only a little boy stuffed into a uniform. It's over.
We must stop wasting our efforts fighting ghosts, and make alliances with the people who share our interests today, whether they love us or not. We must. And we will.
Then how come 70 % of Americans don't want the GZ mosque?
And how come Christians United for Israel has such a large membership? Or are you going to dismiss that as inconsequential?
How come the Spaniard, Aznar, has just created a new Friends of Israel group? Does that count for nothing?
As for the government and the people in the USA: just remember voting in the USA is not compulsory. We don't know what percentage of the total adult population is actually represented by the current President, and what percentage *isn't*...are you going to condemn Mr Spencer, for example, as if he were fully complicit in and responsible for all Obama's bad policies, and blame him for them, personally, even though he didn't vote for Obama and has publicly criticised Obama from day one? What more does he have to do, to satisfy your exacting requirements? Join a Bonhoeffer-style plot to ssassinate the POTUS?
You don't know what's going to happen in the *next* election. I think there could be surprises.
It takes time to turn an ocean liner around...Mr Spencer is a little tugboat, pushing and shoving as hard as he can, and so are some others, but still... given a country of some 300 million people, it takes **time** for people to wake up to something like the JIhad, and **time** for people to work out what to do with what they know, once they know it. Word is still slowly spreading and sinking in. ACT for America and the SIOA are still getting themselves up and running.
In any case - you seem to be in a state of dramatic pessimism, bound and determined to write off every single country in the west as irretrievably dead and done and damned: 'there is not one righteous, no, not one'. No possibility of repentance, and no forgiveness, the door of the future slammed shut and bolted?
Well: I would remind you that when Elijah ran off into the desert in a fit of black depression, and proclaimed bitterly that he was the only righteous man left, the LORD informed him tartly that there were yet seven thousand remaining who had not bowed the knee to Baal.
I am convinced that in the West today - and beyond, in places like India and the Philippines - there are a good many more than seven thousand people who are true friends of Zion, and who are preparing to stand up to the Global Jihad which menaces not only the Jews but everyone else.
If you're totally convinced America has had it, and it's time for you to leave, then, leave, make aliya, follow your heart: go to Israel and fight against the Jihad there. No-one here will blame you for so doing; for going to fight the jihad on your people's land. Everyone here has to decide where to make their stand.
And if you can't manage that, then instead of wasting time sniping at everyone else here, which only damages morale, do something positive: send a cheque to the New Israeli Guardsmen and encourage others to do the same
http://www.carolineglick.com/e/2008/05/how-to-support-the-new-israeli.php
EZ, we can learn the painful lessons from our history.
Just as great powers (the democracies) sold out tiny Czechoslovakia at Munich, to appease Hitler and the Nazis, so the great powers today are selling out Israel in order to appease the largely Jew-hating Muslim world. Just as the great powers did not lift a finger to help the Jews in the late nineteen thirties, early forties, so the great powers today (led by the United States) issue self-righteous, hypocritical, insincere pieties ("cant") that they support Israel's right to exist and her security all they while they sacrifice the Jewish state to the global jihad.
"In any case - you seem to be in a state of dramatic pessimism, bound and determined to write off every single country in the west as irretrievably dead and done and damned: 'there is not one righteous, no, not one'....."
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Paul borrowed that verse from King David, who wrote:
"The LORD has looked down from heaven upon the sons of men To see if there are any who understand, Who seek after God.
"They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one. (Pslam of David, chapter 14)
David was right then. He would be right today, were he living in this evil generation. That not one member on this site can see it, demonstrates clearly how far removed we are from God. And Jihadwatch subscribers are the best of the lot? The most informed; full of wisdom and insight? The best of the best?
Why do you think God will send His messiah, "the arm of the Lord," to the earth in the last days?
"I looked, and there was no one to help, And I was astonished and there was no one to uphold; ++++So My own arm++++ brought salvation to Me, And My wrath upheld Me.
"I trod down the peoples in My anger And made them drunk in My wrath, And I poured out their lifeblood on the earth....." (Isaiah chapter 63)
Could it be a delusion of grandeur to believe that no one but Israel is righteous? Everyone has evil intentions in relation to Israel? Could it be a delusion of persecution to believe that everyone wants to "sell out" israel to hamas? Think about it! Is that true or assumed it is true, how probable is it?
Wild Jew wrote:
"They have all turned aside, together they have become corrupt; There is no one who does good, not even one. (Pslam of David, chapter 14)
David was right then. He would be right today, were he living in this evil generation.
...........................
Wild Jew, I know you feel isolated and frustrated—but do you really believe that Israel has no supporters, even here on JW?
I am not saying Israel is "righteous." I will say this. Israel's cause is just. As there was good vs. evil in the second world war, so there is good vs. evil today. I don't know why you cannot see it.
graven image, I am not saying Israel does not have friends in the US. Clearly she does. Israel's friends are minuscule. How do you define a friend? Israel is becoming increasingly isolated in the international community. Even America (who is supposed to be Israel's friend) is making demands on Israel that she would not demand of any other nation. Israel possesses land that God promised to our patriarchs and their descendants in perpetuity; it is a tiny piece of land (a mere 8-10,000 square miles) which has been repeatedly attacked by her Muslim 'neighbors'. I am sorry there are and were Muslims living in that land. Jews have had an uninterrupted presence in Israel for better than three thousand years. God gave the sons of Ishmael much land - better than six million square miles - and much of it is rich in natural resources; lots of oil. Why do they covet our tiny piece of land?
God has been good to America. God has blessed this nation with an abundance of land and natural resources. God has blessed America greatly. White Europeans expropriated this land from the Indians and the Mexicans; they were driven off the land to make way for our multitudes; Manifest Destiny. Nevertheless God was with these colonialists and settlers who overspread this great continent.
I see an America who no longer appreciate God's blessings; an America that is seeking to strip from us our God-given land in order to give it to our enemies; a people who want to annihilate Israel. Will God continue to bless America in light of this?
I see an America that is turning its back on God. What do you see?
Henry says: "Well thought out and clearly written Marisol! Thank God for you - you are really turning out to be a very good writer. All one really needs to do is to dare to point out that what the Koran says is the only thing in the world that it could possible mean! But Alas, people seem to actually want to fall for the typical Muslim primitive obfuscation that people let them get away with because we are all afraid to really win an argument with them because they might work to have us murdered as according to the very strong suggestions from Allah and Mohammad, those two gods of Revenge by Murder.
I don't know if it helps, Wildjew, but I stick my neck out every chance I get defending Israel, with people who are brainwashed by the Palestinian "narrative".
Same here. And I'm not the only one in my parish church who thinks that way; there are others.
And I can report than when our diocesan paper ran a front-page story about those pooor, pooor Palestinians in Gaza, written by some Useful Idiots who obviously don't know about Taqiyya and who'd swallowed what Bat Yeor calls 'Palestinianism' hook-line and sinker, the very next issue had not one but two intelligent - and blistering - 'letters to the editor' written by ordinary Anglicans within the diocese, challenging and refuting the story. One of those letters was not from an individual, but from a priest and his entire parish.
I had meant to write in the same vein, but didn't get a letter done in time; so it was heartening to discover that others had stepped in ahead of me. Good, too, because I've written pro-Israel letters to the diocesan paper before; if it was just me, the same person, same name, every time, that has less impact than when different people pipe up.
I will add that the moment the Jihad Flotilla story broke, I fired off three letters - first of all, a letter of support to the Israeli Ambassador in Australia, and then to my Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition, stating that I fully supported Israel's right of self-defence and that I had no sympathy whatever for Jew-hating jihadists nor for the Useful Idiots who were acting as their human shields.
Drat. I really, really need to get new glasses.
Typo in the first line of my posting above.
For "I can report than when", read "I can report that when...".
There are three philojudaic Christians whose lives and work I unreservedly commend to others of my communion, as a standing challenge and source of inspiration -
Anglican clergyman James Parkes, author of 'The Conflict of the Church and the Synagogue', "Whose Land?" (which contains a devastating account of the ruin wreaked upon the land of Israel throughout the Muslim imperium in all its stages, Arab, Mamluk and Turkish), and "The Story of Jerusalem")
http://covenant.idc.ac.il/en/vol2/issue2/final-reckoning.html
French Reformed lay theologian and sociologist and general gadfly/ maverick thinker, Jacques Ellul, whose tree stands in the avenue of the Righteous at Yad Vashem, friend and mentor and promoter of the work of Bat Yeor (he wrote forewords to two of her books), author of 'Un Chretien Pour Israel' and 'Ce Dieu Injuste?: Theologie Chretienne pour le Peuple d'Israel' (the latter containing a substantial and sustained challenge to any who would use certain well-worn New Testament 'proof texts' to justify Jew-hatred)
and English Christian Zionist, Orde Wingate
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/biography/wingate.html
It was reading 'Un Chretien Pour Israel' in the early 1990s (thank God I had learnt to read French, as this book has never been put into English) that prevented me from being suckered by 'the Arab [Muslim] narrative'.
Here is the final paragraph from the epilogue of that book:
"Un chretien pour Israel, que’est ce que c’est? Rien, un roseau qui fremit au vent, un bruissement de feuille, un livre parmi cent mille livres; et qui, dans amertume, sait que ce livre pourra etre utilise par toutes les propagandes, ou incompris par tous les partis pris differents. Tentative qui ne fera pas bouger d’une ligne la marche du temps politique.
"Et cependant il faut le faire, parce qu’un chretien pour Israel, c’est d’abord un homme qui vit dans l’Esperance du Seigneur, et qui prie."
- 'One Christian for Israel, what is he?
' Nothing: a reed that quivers in the wind, a murmuring of [a] leaf, of a page, one book among a hundred thousand; and who knows with bitterness that this book will be used for every propaganda, or not understood by all the other partisans. An effort which cannot shift by one line the march of political time.
'And nevertheless he had to do it because a Christian who stands for Israel is, first of all, a man who lives in the Hope of the Lord, and prays."
Thanks PJG. It does help.
dumbledoresarmy and PJG, as you might see from these several comments above (as I wrote above), Israel's true friends are minuscule; few and far between. The God of Israel has very few friends.
Wildjew; Most, if not all, the Jews I know don't care about Israel like I do, even though as far as Jewishness goes I have only a drop of blood from ages ago. I get so annoyed: what is wrong with them? Is it just ingrained dhimmitude? "Get up, stand up!" Why not?