The kid must not read the news. Mohamed Osman Mohamud's foiled plot and subsequent arrest were in many ways an exact replica of those of Hosam Smadi, the failed Dallas jihadi, and Talib Islam, who tried to bomb an Illinois federal building just before Smadi's arrest. And tellingly, his rhetoric was also familiar, as he said he was looking for a "huge mass [i.e., crowd] that will ... be attacked in their own element with their families celebrating the holidays," just as Smadi proclaimed "We shall attack them in their very homes."
One thing we're waiting for: the mainstream media's account of how Mohamud got "radicalized." How was Islam misunderstood this time? That is, if Islam is mentioned at all except to 1.) recite the standard boilerplate that Islam is a religion of peace and denounces "terrorism" (wink), and 2.) broadcast the also-standard material playing up the risk of anti-Muslim "backlash" wherein criticism of Islam is cast as dangerous. Let the verbal game of Twister begin.
More on this story. "Somali teenager 'tried to set off car bomb in US'," from the Telegraph, November 27:
Mohamed Osman Mohamud, 19, attempted to detonate what he believed was an explosives-laden van at an annual Christmas tree lighting ceremony in Portland, Oregon. However, undercover FBI agents had been monitoring his plans and had ensured that the "bomb" was a dud.
Mohamud, a naturalised US citizen of Somali descent, was arrested by the Federal Bureau of Investigation and Portland police around 5:40 pm Friday (0040 GMT Saturday). Detectives swooped on him just after he dialled a cell phone number that he thought would set off the bomb. As they closed in, Mohamud tried to kick at them and yelled "Allahu Akbar!" - Arabic for "God is great!"
Prosecution documents lodged in a US court claimed that since the summer of 2009, Mohamud had been in email contact with a suspected terrorist in Pakistan's lawless northwest frontier province, currently a haven for al Qaeda cells. After discussing the possibility of Mohamud traveling to Pakistan to engage in jihad, or holy war, the accomplice allegedly gave Mohamud contact details of a terrorist cell overseas with whom a terror plot would be hatched.
It's not that northwestern Pakistan is "lawless." Rather, the past few years in the area have seen the ever-increasing encroachment of Sharia, imposed by jihadists advancing on a government in Islamabad that was unwilling to assert sovereignty over its own territory.
Repeated attempts by Mohamud to contact his would-be partners failed, and then last June, an FBI undercover agent contacted Mohamud via email pretending to be an associate of his Pakistani contact.
At a meeting in Portland a month later, Mohamud told the FBI operative that he had written articles that were published in "Jihad Recollections," an online magazine that advocated violence against non-Muslims.
He later told the agents that he had wanted to conduct a holy war against "infidels" since the age of 15, and that he had identified the annual Christmas tree lighting ceremony in Portland's Pioneer Courthouse Square as a good target.
There would be massive casualties and panic at the site, the symbolic significance of attacking an event related to a non-Muslim religious holiday, and economic impact well beyond Portland -- on "Black Friday" weekend, of course (and one just knows the jihadist propaganda puns that would follow from that).
Earlier this month, Mohamud and the agents traveled to the Oregon backcountry and detonated a bomb as a trial run. On the drive back, the undercover officials asked Mohamud if he was capable of looking at the bodies of those killed, according to the federal documents.
"Mohamud responded: 'I want whoever is attending that event to leave, to leave either dead or injured."'
On Friday, an undercover agent and Mohamud drove to downtown Portland in a white van that carried six 55-gallon drums with detonation cords and plastic caps, but all of them were inert.
They got out of the van and walked to meet another undercover agent, who drove to Union Station, the Portland train station, where Mohamud was given a cell phone that he thought would blow up the van.
They had enough details to look after, but this would have made a nice ringtone for the occasion.
FBI operatives apparently cautioned Mohamud several times about the seriousness of this plan, noting that there would be many children at the event. But Mohamud responded that he was looking for a "huge mass that will ... be attacked in their own element with their families celebrating the holidays," the court documents said....
Meanwhile, the Department of Homeland Security, a cabinet designed to fight terrorism is busy illegally shutting down (the wrong) internet sites for copy write infringement. Thank Yahweh for the FBI. I wonder when Obubu is going to dismantle the FBI or order them to investigate serious threats like copyright infringement. Meanwhile, a land-owner on the border of Mexico loses his life fighting against Mexican cartel members demanding he surrender his property. We're at war and our government loves it.
Islam = Sociopathy. I would feel sorry for these people but their hatred and smug superiority is a mental disorder. I can't imagine being born into Islam which is mental slavery. "Once you lose your freedom, you never get it back"--Ronald Reagan
See the 7ft x 14ft 911 painting that served as a memorial-in-absentia on 9/11/2001 outside the Ground Zero memorial service. 3 hours of media coverage, yet you DIDN'T see it on TV. How insidious.
http://www.PatriotZoneStore.com
I just read the coverage of this arrest in NYTimes. As expected, there is no mention of Islam or Muslim while talking about the culprit though his name and his shouts of allahu akabar give him away. The morons of NYTimed will never ever get it. They are the enemies of our country as they are sympathizing with the enemy within our country!!!
We have given shelter these Somalis and this how their children are paying us back!!!Muslims are never evr grateful to non-Muslims for helping them. Yes, they repay us back by slitting our throats as their diety Mo/allah demands from them!!!
Sign, sign, everwhere signs......Signs seen at many Muslim outings.....
"We behead those who say Islam is violent"
"We love death more than life"
"We love death more than freedom"
"Death to __________(use your favorite subject)"
"The real holocaust is yet to come"
Blocking the scenery, messing my mind....can't you read the sign?...
In case the cops don't show up...
http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2010/09/stateside-ieds.html
and
http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2010/05/nyc-bomber.html
Expected government and media reactions:
(1) Silence from the White House.
(2) Puzzled "experts" not able to comprehend what motivated this teenage jihadist to attempt to take innocent life, i.e. the same "geniuses" mystified by the Fort Hood massacre.
(3) CAIR foaming about at the mouth about alleged "Islamophobia".
(4) Copycat incidents throughout the USA by other koranimals and/or Muslims in other countries targeting outdoor Christmas celebrations.
(5) Imam RAW-OOF invites this teenage jihadist to the groundbreaking of the 9/11 megamosque at ground zero.
More Somali news
Somali Muslim Pirates Who Held British Couple Have Families…In Britain…
http://weaselzippers.us/2010/11/26/somali-muslim-pirates-who-held-british-couple-have-families-in-britain/#comment-308876
Crazy. Totally Crazy.
Puzzled expert ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rd8cRvZZv44&feature=player_embedded
Thanks for posting, Tom. I've seen it before and enjoyed it at a lot. This comedy sketch is comical but then again not so comical considering how so much of the mainstream media is totally clueless and unable to tell the truth... Just saw BREAKING NEWS now that an airplane has crashed into a residential area outside of Karachi, Pakistan.
THIS IS AN EXCELLENT POINT: As Marisol points out, the horror region of Pakistan is not "lawless" at all. It is governed by sharia law. The barbaric 7th century laws of Islam. Of course to the deluded and heavily self-censored and politically correct mainstream media in the modern world, it looks lawless minus the billion dollar sheen of Saudi Arabian petrol dollars, but it is exactly the same sharia law as is laid down in Islamic texts.
Also ridiculous is, as has been pointed out above, there will be no truth in the media or truthful statements with all the facts from the government on this case. Classic reading between the lines Pravda continues senselessly in the modern world's press without legitimate purpose and with rapidly dwindling "success" in blocking the truth.
FBI operatives apparently cautioned Mohamud several times about the seriousness of this plan, noting that there would be many children at the event.
*********************************
Children? What are children to Muslims? Their own children are targets for rape, chattel for trading, and future (or present) homicide bombers. A Muslim child is an expendable commodity; he/she can be replaced quickly.
To them, our children are much less, for sure.
I am very grateful to the FBI that they are able to identify and connect with such a bomber and foil such a plot. Signs of progress.
But for Islam this young, deeply misguided, horribly warped human being would not have planned what he did. He's a sicko and he's a sicko precisely because of Islam. Take Islam out of the equation in this young man's life and the chances that planning such as his to kill and maim other human beings would have still been fomented in his mind would be reduced almost statistically to zero.
Islam is sick to its very core and it matters not that most Muslims don't act upon Islam's many sicknesses. What does matter is that many Muslims WILL act upon Islam's myriad of pathologies and thus it is a virtual guarantee that Islam will always remain a death cult for a certain percentage of Muslims whenever things don't go exactly as they think things should.
Islam is wicked. And I'm exceedingly tired of anyone arguing otherwise. Time for mankind as a whole to move to no more excuses for Islam. Sadly, we're not there yet. I know of no ideology in all of history which has been accorded so much respect for so long and which so little deserves it as Islam. Sick of Islam. The wonder of it all is that far more people by now aren't as well.
CBS News just reported that Mo-Mo gave a presentation on bomb building in his Portland high school. Huh?
They also showed "Muslims For Peace" handing out literature around the big Christmas tree in Portland. There, all better.
Yeah, I was watching NBC news and saw this Mo/allah follower giving away printed BS Islam for peace or some such absurdity. During the whole news coveragw the correspondent never uttered "Muslim" word. These morons think that by not calling him what he is, people will think some crazy kid just wanted to bomb. They will never talk about the real inciter of violence - the Quran by Mo/allah!!!
I'm relatively new here to JW and have posted here-and-there.
JW has really opened my eyes to the "Islam" problem. While researching the connection between terrorism and Islam, JW was a Google-search goldmine of thought-provoking reporting and commentary that does not exist in mainstream media. I find myself checking in here several times a day.
My question is this: Is JW really a "radical right-wing Christian" website? I have seen it portrayed as such on various "radical watch" lists, but I don't understand why. The investigative reporting and commentary, through my eye, is clean, polished, articulate, and intelligent.
Truth be told, I'm a liberal Democrat. But I'm acutely aware that we've got a very serious "Islam problem" that is eroding civilization as we know it. Is it okay that I particpate on this forum considering my left-leaning political stance? Or that I'm an atheist? Can I continue to be who I am while recognizing that Islam is an idealogy hell-bent on destroying the world?
Just struggling with these sort of heady issues.
I think Churchill stated that Somalia was a nest of hornets.
Labels, labels, labels...
Welcome, Ashley. Jihadwatch is NOT a right-wing Christian website. Robert himself is a Christian, but really refrains from making that correlation.
I really detest when ideas and forums are neatly "boxed" and packaged away. People should always be open-minded and constantly educating yourself. It seems you are 2 for 2 in my book! So don't label yourself as such and such so quickly, Ashley! You're sure to learn a lot from this site. There's all kinds of people from all walks in life and all parts of the world who comment here.
As for me, I used to label myself as you, "liberal Democrat," but that's no longer in my vocabulary. Life as taught me otherwise. So, if I'm going to be labeled, then I prefer "pro-gun, pro-woman, pro-American" who happens to be one who stands against the facism of islame.
I guess we are supposed to be comforted by the fact that this Muslim was a U.S. citizen and acting alone. On the contrary, this is an even greater threat than if he had come from abroad.
Thanks for the info, these are things I wouldn't have thought about on my own.
The progress of civilization has been a long slog from primitive man's narrow view of the world as Us vs Them, towards forming a larger concept of humanity. Islam represents a reversion to the primitive because it not only lacks a concept of humanity, but it is also inhumane.
The contention, Ashley, that Jihad Watch is nothing more than a "radical right-wing Christian website" is belied by so much evidence to the contrary that only those who are determined to engage in defamation of the most egregious kind whatsoever can continue to assert such nonsense. I can assure you that Jihad Watch is a highly tolerant and diverse web site which welcomes all but rabid haters to post their comments.
Yes, there are many Christians who post here. Robert Spencer himself is a devout Catholic, but this site welcomes all who see Islam's supremacist desgins as a menace to liberty to comment at JW on a regular basis. More true freedom of expression would be hard to find anywhere on the Internet. ANYWHERE. Found here are Christians, Jews, Sikhs, Hindus, agnostics, atheists and also some Muslims who have doomed themselves to trying to rescue something that can't be rescued. Even Muslims who are devout, and in full Islamic supremacist mode, spout their totalitarian nonsense here at JW without censorship, though such freedom would never be accorded to critics of Islam in Muslim lands. Would that all Internet sites be as exemplary of free speech as Jihad Watch is; it would be a better Internet world were this the case. Oh yes, for the record, I am an agnostic, not possessed of a religious bone in my body, and have been posting here for several years.
Ignore the lies about Jihad Watch. They are many and desperate, and most particularly invoked by two groups above all---Muslims and the stunningly clueless Leftist elite in the Western world (though, to be complete, too many conservatives in the West also don't "get it"). Stick around and you'll get a good feel for where the truth really lies---right here at Jihad Watch.
Welcome to JW. I'm an old-fashoned liberal Democrat myself, though my liberalism leans more to "classical" liberalism these days.
Yes, you can be who you are, as others are. Yes, there are some who push their views, but they are few, and I would not recommend copying them. I personally keep my religious views out unless I comment on my own shortcomings or encourage a few friends in their faiths (please note the plural). In fact, one of my favorite things about JW is the number of Hindu posters - I have had my eyes opened to many nuances and really changed my opinion of a major event in history thanks to them.
Sadly, we ARE here to discuss one particular religion's impact on our civilization. To that extent we cannot avoid the subject. Isn't that more than enough without bringing in more? See you!
RE:One thing we're waiting for: the mainstream media's account of how Mohamud got "radicalized." How was Islam misunderstood this time? That is, if Islam is mentioned at all except to 1.) recite the standard boilerplate that Islam is a religion of peace and denounces "terrorism" (wink), and 2.) broadcast the also-standard material playing up the risk of anti-Muslim "backlash" wherein criticism of Islam is cast as dangerous. Let the verbal game of Twister begin.
Don't forget the all time favorite fall back position: That the Jihadist was mentally ill. After all if the guy is crazy you consider his actions in a totally different light.
That favorite of apologizer's started with the El Al Airline Counter attack in LAX all those many years ago.
Right, SL - because an ideology that is believed by over a billion people and growing is very hard to identify and control when it inspires violent behavior.
Ashley:
The truth is that being liberal or conservative should have little to do with recognizing the impact that Jihad has on the world. The overwhelming impact is in the Muslim countries themselves where people's lives are affected in various ways.
The thing I never understand is how liberal women who demand equality in employment and pay and abortion rights, would ever offer any support to Islam, that reduces the same choices, education, and freedoms for Islamic women. Those that support gay rights, and non discrimination in marriage and employment, seem to ignore the fact that homosexuality is not tolerated and can be a capital crime in some countries. Finally liberal minded people that crusade re the mass murders in Darfur and the Sudan seem to ignore the link between religion and the slaughter and slavery occurring there. Not to mention that you cant give a valentine, listen to music, build a church, etc etc in some muslim countries.
My children's 2nd grade teacher went to Afghanistan prior to 9-11 as her daughter had married an Afghan Christian. That is when I really first became aware of the Taliban. She would send us emails of what it was like to live under the Taliban control. Stories of Taliban searches for hidden Bibles. Where the resident's possessions would be stolen or destroyed in the process of the search. God help you if the Bible was found. It is amazing the risk that these people took to practice the religion of their choice, given the danger. They moved out prior to 9-11 after one such search of a neighbors house. The Taliban seized the neighbors husband and was going to take him away, her son in law interceded and for his trouble he was thrown into the back of a truck and taken away with the neighbor. All thought they were dead. But 10 hours later both trudged home, just beaten up and warned of more of the same or worse unless they converted. They packed up and left to Pakistan.
After the Afghan invasion they returned to their house, and she decided to start a girls school. She is the bravest person I know. Note: she was very liberal politically when she lived in the US.
Ashley:
Fear not, this is a non-sectarian, non-partisan site, and all are welcome.
Marisol Seibold
Jihad Watch News Editor
Ashley: if it makes you feel any better, I'm a Communist. I'll take my chances with these guys any day compared to the world organized Islam offers.
By the same token, I'm no fan of the Pat Robertson clan either. Then again, Pat seems under control these days.
GeoffP
So much for the love for fellow People of the Book. For all that I know about terrorism, and it may not be the most but I try to read what I can, I'll still never be able to fathom the kind of hate that makes a person want to kill a bunch of strangers. I can't fathom a concept of God that is not loving, but some death-eating thing that would appreciate something like 'jihad.' I'm only the more grateful that I didn't grow up in an Islamist society.
Time, I think, for Ashley to respond.
I can tell you from experience that there will be many people dismissing this terrorist as just another "nut case", one of only very few & far between crazies that might pop up again. The truth is too uncomfortable to hold for them, which is, IMO, that there are a lot of Muslims in our country willing to do the same.
" And despite vehement protests from westernized Muslim intellectuals, the idea of 'murdering, maiming, and menacing' the enemy for the purpose of hastening the final triumph of Islam has always held a very strong appeal among the Muslim masses"
- Holy Terror , by Amir Taheri (p 17)
Thanks Bill Clinton for settling so many somalis in USA.
Time to deport people like Mohamud back to the countries they came from. If they can't stand us, I suggest they go back home where they can be with their own kind. They are not welcome on American soil, ever.
Hi Ashley - One of the first things it's good to know here at JW is that it's a not so well-guarded secret that all of the comments posted on the Jihadwatch site are written and posted by Robert Spencer himself, using over two hundred aliases and pseudonyms. Your comment may also have been written & posted by Mr. Spencer, as a matter of fact. (Just kidding).
Mohamed Osman Mohamud, 19, attempted to detonate what he believed was an explosives-laden van at an annual Christmas tree lighting ceremony in Portland, Oregon.
.......................
Let that sink in. *Really* sink in. This Jihadist wanted to detonate his bomb at a *Christmas tree lighting ceremony*. An event like this will be attended by civilians, by families, by *children*. Lots and lots of children.
More:
FBI operatives apparently cautioned Mohamud several times about the seriousness of this plan, noting that there would be many children at the event. But Mohamud responded that he was looking for a "huge mass that will ... be attacked in their own element with their families celebrating the holidays," the court documents said....
.......................
Clearly, the presence of so many children was what most disturbed the FBI agents, as well. They wanted to make sure that this Jihadist—at 19, barely more than a child himself—understood just what it meant to attack and murder little children out with their families for a festive event.
*He did*. The economic turmoil would have been gravy, but murdering small children at what should be one of the happiest times of the year was his *main objective*.
It would be hard to imagine anything more horrifying than this. And all in the glorious name of Islam.
Thank you all. I feel better, and appreciate the validation that my "membership" to JW is welcome. I felt a bit like Juan Williams straddling the NPR/FOX threshold...
It is a personal struggle...I consider myself tolerent to opposing views, but this Islam issue challenges all my core values.
I'm glad I'm not violating any protocal by participating on JW, and appreciate the spirit of a common concern. The investigative reporting here is outstanding. But I feared being a hypocrite if the forum was designed for a far-right audience, and I just needed some clarification. Again, thank you. Sorry to have hijacked this post...I wasn't sure how to broach the matter.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/Jesus-Muhammad.htm
Read and have respect for those who respect Jesus...
That's all...
thereligionofpeace.com is another good site to hit up everyday...
blazingcatfur.blogspot.com has Canada...
vladtepesblog.com has europe video translations...
gatesofvienna.blogspot.com has historical essays and critiques of misleading history books...
================
Just realize factual history... After I learned about islam, I realized that Christians have been culturally poisoned throughout islam's history...
America will be a darker place after dealing with the muslims...
After Spain ended the muslim problem, the Inquisition went after the DHIMMI conspiritors...
Heck.. just look at the corruption in the Catholic Church.. seems like some in the RCC follow islamic dictates...
How about the Normans who learned how to subjugate people from muslims in 'Italy' before invading England...
Charles Martel invented the Feudal system after dealing with muslims...
ALL THAT YOU KNOW AS EVIL IS HOLY IN ISLAM...
Poo on Christians all you want... You don't have to believe Jesus is God... but for Christ's sake, please, do not equate allah with the Bible God...
btw... Do some research on the Baha'i..
Besides all of that... Stick your neck out and HAVE AN OPINION... Make these regulars dance a little ;)
I guess we are supposed to be comforted by the fact that this Muslim was a U.S. citizen and acting alone.
****************
MoMo was not acting alone. He was consorting with fellow Mohammedans to attack the kuffar (who were FBI agents, unbeknownst to him).
How many other Muhammeds are out there conspiring within the ummah against us? We'll find out. They're all not working with FBI agents.
SL436 notes:
I guess we are supposed to be comforted by the fact that this Muslim was a U.S. citizen and acting alone. On the contrary, this is an even greater threat than if he had come from abroad.
We are concerned as he was not acting alone, that he did come from abroad (Somalia)and was a naturalized citizen ( A naturalized citizen is a foreign national who is granted citizenship in the United States after fulfilling certain requirements.) and that he was following the teachings from his religion (Islam). He has specific goals in mind such as to kill as many as possible and create mass destruction, panic and fear. At a meeting in Portland a month later, Mohamud told the FBI operative that he had written articles that were published in "Jihad Recollections," an online magazine that advocated violence against non-Muslims.
He later told the agents that he had wanted to conduct a holy war against "infidels" since the age of 15, , He planned to murder in the name of religion....his religion...Islam...
Ashley dont mind being regarded as far right, as when l was very young and foolish l was far left, being Canadian that was very easy. It is more difficult being on the right, but more than that is far easier being on the left. What l have found in the short time here is that we all need to unite to fight the so called religion of peace, the worst among us try to appease islamists and those people appear to be leftists.
you can have an open mind, but you still need core values to
be able to detect what is wrong with this facist ideology called islam. good luck.
When are we going to demand that our feckless, foolish, phony commander-in-chief start constant worldwide media blasts that the next Muslim terrorist incident anywhere in the world will mean that we are going to destroy Mecca? The next sub-animal attack after that on innocent people by Muslims, we destroy Medina. We take the oil in those areas & continue to meet Jihad with the appropriate response.
Slightly OT.
In the UK, the Islamic apologists and supremacists also play "Twister" in response to similar events - but with a "twist". Have the US and other JW'ers noticed similar twists in their locales?
The usual technique is as follows:
1) Terrorist act, demand for Sharia, unsavoury Islamic act, etc - carried out by Muslim(s).
2) Critical comments made that include the words "Muslim" and/or "Islam".
3) Immediate responses by supremacists/apologists:
a) "There are 1.6 billion Muslims world-wide. Are you saying that every single one of them supports such acts/demands or supports those that do?".
b) "If so, can you prove it?".
c) "You are "demonising" and "stigmatising" 1.6 million people with your vile allegations".
d) "How would "you" feel if you were demonised in this way?".
4) Then: "It might state such things "verbatim" in the Qur'an, but only a 'tiny minority' follow them. You must understand the Qur'an in its "TRUE context".
It comes down to "collective innocence". If you can't "prove" that ALL Muslims support violent/unsavoury acts then ALL Muslims are "innocent" of ANY support/collusion in ANY such acts. (Except, of course, the 'tiny minority' against whom the evidence is overwhelming and is proven in court).
I don't know who does the screening for the naturalization process, but this needs to be reworked. Too many naturalized foreign born Muslims are trying to blow US up.
Hello Kuffar-England, good, interesting post, thanks.
These supremacists/ apologists play the card of "a person and a group" are innocent until proven guilty. As this is a much loved principle in Democratic Nations that argument works well for them, until now.
But there is another principle pertaining to the by now undeniable Islam and Democracy-worldwide controversy: How to act when there is danger?
Then no longer it is prudent to wait for proof of danger in order to react. It is prudent to ACT swiftly with signs of danger. When in prehistory a human saw a wolf or other predator, it would make no sense that (s)he trusted in that wolf and the situation in order not to offend the wolf or something, I mean.
And, by now, there is a veritable mountain of proof/ clues/ evidence, of the connection between Islamic tenets and violent, oppressive behavior of it's adherents. And it constitutes both danger and injustice to religious minorities in Islamic countries.
In these circumstances the burden of proof is shifting towards the supremacists/ apologists. It is up to them to provide reasons for trust and respect for Muslims living in Democratic Nations (in short Mudena's).
It is by now also unfair and unrealistic to brush all Muslims with the same HARMLESS brush, that would be paramount to a suicidal naivete. Still, the suprem/ apol. DEMAND this from us.
What there is to know about Islam Critical Islam Experts (CIEX) DO know. And they inform their readers a lot, motivated as they and their readers are.
CIEX, taking also many clues from what many BIEX (Believing Islam Experts) say, have shown: Clear anti-democratic laws (like Nonie Darwish' 33 anti-Democratic laws in Sharia in Sharia for Dummies). And countless (attempted) terror attacks or oppressive acts by self-confessed Muslims, claiming to act in the name of Islam themselves.
Thanks to these CIEX the Citizens of Democratic Nations (Cidena's) can now move on and declare that: Muslims, that choose for the traditional Islam, are guilty of choosing an ideology that is shown to be irresponsibly risky vulnerable to Supremacist-totalitarian exploitation and misunderstanding. And that is only the more benevolent interpretation of traditional Islam. It could also, by CIEX, be called outright totalitarian-Supremacist.
So, the responsibility, accountability and the burden of proof CAN be asked from the Muslims and their defenders at this point in time. And the tendency to do that will increase a lot, I expect.
Because the CIEX and their followers are currently overall the side of the necessary Islam-debate with both the highest knowledge about Islam & Democracy AND the highest motivation to argue about logically and extensively. And it seems that in honest debate they are almost always the winners.
Which is why the Islam-defenders always fall back on debate-stoppers like "Islamophobia, dividing, generalizing-stigmatizing, hate-speech, fear-mongering, insulting disrespect" and so on.
Have you seen the latest presidential pics..(אױ װײ)
http://news.yahoo.com/nphotos/slideshow/photo//101126/480/urn_publicid_ap_org6e1dcae65bd04856a9aa261ca08fbeed/
"President Barack Obama, with an ice pack over his mouth, looks out the second floor window of the White House during the arrival of the official White House Christmas Tree, Friday, Nov. 26, 2010"
Wtf, walk softly and carry a big ice pack?? (dude looks like he's waiting for his mom)
As they closed in, Mohamud tried to kick at them and yelled "Allahu Akbar!" - Arabic for "God is great!"
And for "Heil Hitler" too, huh?
And, again, here's something I don't get... Hasn't Mohamund been told about how, in mahoundianism, black people like him are regarded as raisinheads and pug-nosed slaves? What's next for his self-hatred? Is he going to become a member of the KKK in the big house or what?
Asley, welcome to you. I too use to be an atheist (but never a Liberal) but have changed my religion since figuring out islam and recognizing islam's one-to-one relationship with the 20th Century's two atheist ideologies, Communism and Nazism. Remember, of all people a Russian, Dostoyevsky, recognized that, "Without God everything is permitted." (notice he said permitted and not "possible"). As you continue your autodidactic education you will probably come to recognize that islam is not a legitimate religion but is a hyper-cult that uses the patina of religion to accomplish its goals of power and control, i.e., the same as Stalin and Hitler.....most of us here at JW will leave your Leftist views for another day but just consider that today's islam apologists and multiculturalists are people of the Left. You may want to ask yourself why this is so.
A word of welcome to Ashley - Cliche-mongering doesn't go unchallenged here. You proclaim you are tolerant to opposing views, indicating a mood of pompous self-importance. You're presuming to be the Government. Of what country are you the government? I know that kind of lese majeste is common among American teenagers nowadays, but now you are welcome to graduate and grow up. Welcome to the world of adults.
" "I want whoever is attending that event to leave, to leave either dead or injured"
Islam....feel the love.
Re: "I feel better"
Hi Ashley -- as long as you feel something, you are still alive.
There is no carpet of egg shells here and I, for one, don't expect you to bring your own.
Free yourself to speak your mind. Just say it! :o
I disagree with Dostoevski's "Without God everything is permitted." It suggests that a morality and a moral code can be provided only when people believe in a God. Rather, the basics of morality are imprinted in the hearts of men, regardless of what they think about God. That human beings shall have a sense of morality is too important and necessary a thing for God to have left it up to the mere beliefs and opinions of mankind. Without morality the human species soon perishes and is no more. God doesn't want that to happen. The way He ensures it won't happen is by implanting right into human instincts certain moral sensibilities, chief of which is compassion. In this it matters not whether you believe in the Lawmaker -- His laws are enacted and enforced independently of what we may think we know. It has to be that way. Otherwise ....
Ah, I understand your point. It wasn't my intention to come off as "pompous and self-important" but rather conflicted about my own self-realization that I'm an Islamaphobe- it sort of flies in the face of trying not to judge that which I don't understand.
My background is that I, like most of you, connected the dots between terrorism and Islam. I just bloomed rather late in the game. I did my own research on the matter, and before discovering JW about a year ago, found very little on the subject. I lurked here for some time, hesitant to participate because JW was listed as an extremist website that fostered extremism. And I still don't understand why that is. The research here is exhaustive, and the thread commentary, for the most part, intelligent. I also appreciate that the posts cite original sources, allowing me to pursue further research.
I began my own questioning when Bill Maher was fired for his comments re: 9/11 on his show, Politically Incorrect. I was outraged. I was equally outraged with the recent flap over Juan Williams and his being fired from NPR for sentiments articulated that I myself shared. Thus my discouragement with mass media, and a desire to draw more accurate reporting from Jihad Watch.
So I shall repeat...I woke up a little late in the game. I have a deeper understanding that Islam is actually a terrorist organization with a political agenda, operating under the guise of a religion.
Thanks! Really, I don't mean to be hyper-sensitive...just experiencing a personal metamorphosis. I honestly don't know why JW was labeled an "extreme right-wing Christian website" when I was looking for information on the terrorism/Islam link. I feared that I was expected to embrace Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Rush Limbaugh, etc. It is obvious that is not the basis of this forum.
As events continue to unfold...Fort Hood, Times Square, Portland OR, and the occasional Jihad Jane. I'm growing acutely aware that we have a very serious problem that seems impossible to eradicate, and is only exaceberated by the PC media outlets. Thanks to JW I've discovered the terrorist underpinnings of CAIR (an organization I never even heard of a year ago); the growing radicalization that takes place in prisons, mosques, and even the internet; the absurdity of our security systems that refuse to profile, etc. It is a learning curve for me.
Ashley -- we rarely if ever talk about Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, or Rush Limbaugh. I like it that way. We need to focus on staying alive and educating the public with a non-sectarian approach. Dead people aren't R's, D's, or I's -- they're just dead.
Correct?
So, where are dear old dad and his wives? I saw one report that he has a step-mother here, somewhere. When was the family relocated to kaffir country? To what state, and are they still there? According to the perp, his parents prevented him from engaging in 'the jihad'. How so? This late in the game, much of this should be known by now—if journalists were doing their jobs.
Some nickname suggestions: MoSquared, MOx2, DoubleMo,
Just a note: the 'Muslims for Peace' group handing out the flyers are Ahmadiyya Muslims--heretics according to 'real' Muslims. ‘Fox and Friends’ didn’t mention that to their ‘Peaceful’ Muslim guest this morning, though. I wonder if CAIR—America’s Largest Muslim Civil Rights Organization, we’re told—supports the Ahmadiyya community?
I see that another ‘expert’, Walid Phares, has also stated that Mr. Mohamud was ‘radicalized’. How far from reality will these ‘experts’ go to avoid calling it like it is?
News Flash! According to Fox News, ‘Muslim leaders in Oregon are condemning the Portland bomber’. Sure.
To paraphrase RS (but don’t quote me):
1. Muslims should be asked about their views on jihad and the Shari’a before being allowed to immigrate here.
2. Local mosque members will likely not remember him attending their facilities.
Bhobby, thanks for your comment but perhaps you have noticed most people don't think about morals or much else. I'm sure you can keep your blood lust in check because you think. A God figure will help others place a check on bloodlust but since Utopia doesn't exist, nor will it ever, no system is perfect. Again, I would ask you to review the 20th Century and see what the atheists hath wrought and, again, I consider Muslims as also being godless. The body counts of the godless are
Communism = +/- 100 million corpses. (over 70 years)
Nazi = +/- 60 million (in six years, of course the Japanese)
were a major contributor in this tally)
Islam = 270 million (since 622 A.D.)
This does not take into account slavery.
Keep in mind as bin laden said, paraphrasing, 'they will follow the strong horse.'
A true believing an acting Christian, Jain, Bhuddist, etc. will have a resource to draw on to resist the bloodlust. A muslim does not have this controlling factor since their god is a false god.
Yes, religions are very good, most of them. We could even define the human being as "the religious animal" (in admiration of being human). Our instincts, our innate capabilities, keep us alive, ensure our survival (both individually and collectively) but mere survival is not enough, and not supposed to be enough. Among those instincts and capabilities I include compassion. Yet we know that some people are able to sabotage and pervert those God-given instincts and inclinations. Most obviously are common criminals and Muhammadans in that regard. And a false religion or even a deliberately anti-moral ideology can succeed in sabotaging and deadening the natural moral sense of otherwise normal human beings.
What I see when I look at Communism and Naziism is much more than simply atheism. Yeah there's atheism there, but also a whole lot of other insidious and nasty things going on. Simply being an atheist does not a mass-murderer make.
This blood-lust is inherent in the Muslim DNA.
Enforced Failure to be aware of this is the result of the governments aversion to due diligence.
This kid claims it was his dream since he was 15. So four years in the incubator of hate.
He got here for free. He's being educated at the largesse of our college system.
But, in his thinking, he's been embarassed by the infidel for doing so.
Be as outraged as you wish, but for your own sake, the sake of your children, don't stop. Read, re-read, analyze, compare and digest what's available.
It's amazing that a country as advanced as our own, and indulges itslef in the inside stories of Hollytramps, isn't capable of more than scratching the surface on this matter.
Bellieve me. The study beats any "thriller" you'll read.
And you can play a part.
Hi Ashley - You say you are "trying not to judge what I don't understand". Are you a Judge on her day off trying to get your mind off your usual role? I thought you were a teenage girl. I'm not trying to be cruel. I'm elucidating the meaning of the words you say. Then again, looking in the dictionary, we see the word "judge" has several quite different meanings. Saying "trying not to judge" is ambiguous, doubly so. It's best not to get in the habit of using very ambiguous words. Unless you want to.
Ashley,
Glad to have another soul on the side of truth seeking, wherever you may stand or have stood.
Ashley, have you seen this article? One of my favorites.
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/243587/ban-burqa-claire-berlinski
You say to me I keep my blood-lust in check because I'm a thinking person. What makes you think I have blood-lust? For your information, I don't have blood-lust, never have had it, and so there's no need for me to keep it in check. I do have normal sex-instincts, however, and I usually keep that in check. Where are you getting this "blood-lust" idea from?
Hi Ashley!
Just a word of warning: Don't feed the trolls on this site! They love baiting people and NEVER really answer a single question without obfuscation!
Bhobby, virtually all human beings, particular males, are saddled with bloodlust its part of our R-comlpex. Don't delude yourself in thinking evolution somehow bypassed you. Under the right circumstances this nasty potential will show its ugly faced. The problem with islam is that it nutures this human attribute. If, and hopefully not when, the muslims surpass the horror of 9/11 they may then witness the West's bloodlust and I could see myself joining in at that time. I doubt if I'm up the standards preached by Jesus.....few are. Perhaps you are I'm just not betting on it.
Bhobby & glenkille : Further proof that this site tolerates the faithful far more readily than it does atheists. You, Bhobby, sound like an arrogant keyboard warrior. You both should be ashamed of the way you greet someone new to the fight and on your side.
glenkille :
I would ask you to review the 20th Century and see what the atheists hath wrought and, again.
So you think an absence of belief causes people to kill?
glenkille :I consider Muslims as also being godless.
Yes, but they don't, do they? They are theists, just like you.
glenkille :
The body counts of the godless are
Communism = +/- 100 million corpses. (over 70 years)
Communists aren't atheists, although it's a common misconception. I'd explain why but you're beyond help.
glenkille :Nazi = +/- 60 million
The guys with 'Got mit uns' on their belts and knives? No, they were religious just like the Japanese were a Shinto nation, which came to a halt at the end of the war for both.
glenkille :Islam = 270 million (since 622 A.D.)
By anyone's educated judgment islam is a religion. You can play sleight-of-hand with words to make yourself feel better but you are just lying. It may be the widest-spread cult of all time but it's still a religion at this point.
Atheists don't cause death the way you so ardently *wish* they would. Not now, not ever. It's not in our interest, we just want facts to prevail.
You're a repugnant liar, glenkille, it's sad that more people on JW aren't willing to call you on your BS.
I have every intention of starving the trolls. Thanks for the heads-up.
Abu lahab,
nice try. so, you're going to fit the round peg of the godless communists into the square hole of "communists aren't athiests." and you want "facts to prevail." In point of fact, futile I know, but being an athiest is a prerequisite to being a communist but let's not allow facts to get in the way. For athiests not enjoying piling up the corpses they certainly had a lot of misunderstanders. The reason folks on JW aren't jumping to your side is they understand a useful idiot when they see one.
Oh yea, I believe Jim Jones' crowd "believed" in his cult, in other words, your "belief" doesn't make it so anymore than any muslim "believing" in his swill makes islam a religion.
So you already concede that you lied about Nazi's and Japanese, glenkille? Good.
Now your assertion that being an atheist is a prerequisite for being a Communist is also in error. A third of Communist Russia was also theistic. Mainly split between christianity and islam so there goes that theory. Please don't forget that Communism was just another belief system like the religions it tried to replace. Not so atheism. No one has killed in the name of atheism.
So we're back to your desperate attempt to lay millions of deaths at the hands of atheists. Clearly you can see you're wrong.
Just because you think islam isn't a religion doesn't make it so.
I'd like it to be declared a cult and end its tax status but that's not for me to decide. You just sound childish comparing it to a minor christian doomsday cult.
Ashley wrote:
I'm relatively new here to JW and have posted here-and-there.
JW has really opened my eyes to the "Islam" problem...
My question is this: Is JW really a "radical right-wing Christian" website? I have seen it portrayed as such on various "radical watch" lists, but I don't understand why. The investigative reporting and commentary, through my eye, is clean, polished, articulate, and intelligent.
Truth be told, I'm a liberal Democrat.
.............................
Welcome, Ashley! I know that a number of posters have already responded to your comments—I'd like to add my two cents.
Yes, you will hear that Jihad Watch is "a radical right-wing Christian website". You will also have many people respond to *any* concerns over Islam with charges of "Islamophobia" and "racism" (as though Islam were a race).
I have run into the same thing, many times. I live in the San Francisco Bay Area—a lovely region, but *very* politically correct. Criticism of Islam is, by and large, considered bad form at best.
I have *never* understood this—how would women, and gay people, and religious minorities like Jews and Hindus and Buddhists and Baha'i fare under Islam? Oh, wait—we don't have to speculate—we can see the evidence all too clearly.
What about freedom of speech, and freedom to create art and music? Again, the evidence is all too clear. Even "left-wing" concerns about peace, animal rights, and the environment are not much accommodated under Shari'ah law.
The fact is, liberals would suffer at least as much under Islam as conservatives would.
Another important point—the differences between Christians and atheists, left-wing and right-wing might seem great to us here in the West, at times at least—but they make *no difference* under Islam whatsoever.
I remember being rather stunned to hear, right after 9/11, an odd sort of "bargaining" with Jihadists—pundits who chided Jihad terrorists for targeting New Yorkers, so many of whom were liberal, and hence were likely "sympathetic" to Muslim grievances—as though it would have been OK if the terrorists had murdered, say, a good part of the population of Crawford, Texas, instead.
In much the same way, you heard some few conservative Christians blame 9/11 on overly liberal social policies, rather than on Islam itself.
Insanity. Devout Muslims consider a conservative Christian girl holding hands with her fiance just about as much of a 'whore' as they would a lesbian stripper. In the same manner, they often refer to Americans as both "crusaders" and 'God-less atheists'—often, it is all the same to them.
If we want to preserve the freedoms of the West, we need to act together. Yes, you will find many conservatives on Jihad Watch—but there are also many political moderates, some classical liberals, some libertarians, a few socialists and one or two actual communists.
In the same manner, you will indeed find many Christians of various denominations here—as well as Jews, Hindus, several neo-pagans, at least one Wiccan, a large number of agnostics and atheists, and many who decline to state, feeling it simply isn't relevant. And, as one poster noted above, there are several apostate Muslims who post regularly here, at least one who seems to be wrestling with the more unsavory aspects of his faith, and several Muslim trolls in full Islamic supremacy mode.
Nor is everyone who posts here American—you will find a lot of Brits, Canadians, several Australians, Indians, quite a number of Europeans, and even a few hailing from parts of Dar-al-Islam.
It is well to remember that fighting against Jihad is perhaps the defining moral struggle of our time—as fighting Fascism was for our grandparents. It is easy to forget—or perhaps never learn—that many who were concerned about the turn Nazism was taking in the 1930s were condemned as alarmists and even warmongers.
But they were right—and if they hadn't started the fight early, then we wouldn't be free enough to fight now.
So, welcome Ashley.
Hello glenkille. That's an Irish placename I believe. The disagreement between us two is not a big deal. My approach to knowledge of human nature is based mostly on introspection. I don't disrespect the science of biology. I will always doublecheck into the character of actual living acting human beings to verify some finding of Biology bearing on that, and give certainty to what I know about actual people rather than what geneticists conjecture about it.
I'm not at all a pacifist, but I am a Christian The best soldiers have discovered to be those with steady temperment in battle situations, rather than those get worked up into a frenzy. Although they say the ancient Viking "Berzerkers" were fierce and effective fighters.
We , you and I, probably have common viewpoints about most other things.
I think I'm beginning to get a handle on who this Abu Lahab character is. He has spent some time studying the culture and history of Western civilization but from a point of view entirely foreign to it. Therefore he could be Chinese or Hindu but I don't think so. His knowlege is all garbled and fouled up. Some of it he just makes up by simply falsifying some factoid he has picked up and throwing it into the stew of cooked-up garbage and leftovers. He himself is an atheist Muhammedan, probably. There are such creatures. We kaffirs aren't supposed to know they exist. They do exist. Loyal followers of the prophet Muhammed who nevertheless cannot bring themselves to really believe in Allah. That's what Abu Lahab is.
Bhobby wrote:
I think I'm beginning to get a handle on who this Abu Lahab character is....He himself is an atheist Muhammedan, probably. There are such creatures. We kaffirs aren't supposed to know they exist. They do exist. Loyal followers of the prophet Muhammed who nevertheless cannot bring themselves to really believe in Allah. That's what Abu Lahab is.
...........................
Bhobby, Abu Lahab has been posting here at JW for a long time. He describes himself as an "anti-theist". You may or may not agree with him, but there is *absolutely no reason* to believe he is any sort of "loyal follower of the prophet Muhammed"—of *any stripe*.
For anyone who is interested I have two news report videos of this current event here
VIDEOS: The Religion of Peace’s Christmas Present to the American People – a Terrorist Bomb in Portland
http://thereligionofconquest.com/2010/11/28/video-the-religion-of-peaces-christmas-present-to-the-american-people-a-bomb-in-portland/
For anyone who is interested I have two news report videos of this current event here
VIDEOS: The Religion of Peace’s Christmas Present to the American People – a Terrorist Bomb in Portland
http://thereligionofconquest.com/2010/11/28/video-the-religion-of-peaces-christmas-present-to-the-american-people-a-bomb-in-portland/
I sincerely appreciate your thoughtful two cents.
Perhaps I shared too much about my inner turmoil regarding my leanings vs what I now understand as a world threatened by Islamic idealogy. Again, I'm on a learning curve.
I'm reconciling that my own struggle isn't worth a rat's ass when it comes down to the situation at hand...Islam is hell-bent on terror and destruction. I'm just navigating through the process.
I've concluded that we can come from various backgrounds but still share a common observation and concern that we've got a serious problem.
Thanks again for your thoughtful reply.
Foiled Oregon jihadist: "I want whoever is attending that event to leave, to leave either dead or injured"
And we want you putting in the electric chair where you belong.
Appreciated, thanks Graven....