The Hamas-linked Islamic supremacists of CAIR here implicitly acknowledge, as Pamela Geller points out here, that Islam and Sharia are essentially inseparable -- otherwise they wouldn't be able to call Oklahoma's ballot measure an "anti-Islam" amendment. They will mount this challenge on the claim that it outlaws things like halal meat and personal Muslim prayer, but that is unlikely to succeed, since those things don't actually constitute the use of a law other than American law to legislate for Americans.
In any case, the Hamas-linked thugs of CAIR have overreached yet again, because this suit, if it goes ahead, will provide ample opportunity to prove to the general public that stonings, amputations, the oppression of women, the death penalty for apostates, and other oppressive measures are intrinsic to Sharia. But CAIR is in a hard place with this one: if they don't challenge Oklahoma's measure, the whole stealth jihad agenda could be thwarted. If they do, it could be exposed. They must be counting on their stooges and useful idiots in the government and mainstream media to do a lot of heavy lifting for them on this one.
"CAIR to Announce Suit Challenging Oklahoma Anti-Islam Amendment," from PR Newswire, November 3:
OKLAHOMA CITY, Okla., Nov. 3, 2010 /PRNewswire-USNewswire/ -- On Thursday, November 4, the Oklahoma chapter of the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR-OK) will hold a news conference with religious and civil rights leaders in the State Capitol Building to announce the filing of a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of an anti-Islam ballot measure (State Question 755) passed in yesterday's election. The measure amends the state constitution to forbid judges from considering Islamic law or international law when making a ruling.
Nice job, CAIR - show your disrespect for the supremacy of U.S. law.
What was it your founder Omar Ahmad stated?
"The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America"
Oklahoma Sharia referendum could backfire.
Unintended consequence could be legalisation of Shariah
The status of Shariah was until recently undefined in the USA. However CAIR, the main American Muslim organisation, is filing a lawsuit challenging the constitutionality of an anti-Islam ballot measure (State Question 755) passed in yesterday's election. The measure amends the state constitution to forbid judges from considering Islamic law or international law when making a ruling.
Given the dhimmi nature of the judiciary, it is likely that they will side with CAIR to avoid appearing 'Islamophobic' or 'racist' or unwelcoming to Muslims. If that happens, it will set a precedent that enshrines Sharia in American law.
http://s1.zetaboards.com/EDL_The_Forum/topic/3910038/1/
In a judgment made recently by Justice Antonin Scalia, he said that:-
“To make the individual’s obligation to obey . . . a law contingent upon the law’s coincidence with his religious beliefs” would have the effect of “permitting him, by virtue of his beliefs, ‘to become a law unto himself.’” And if that were allowed, there would no longer be a single law — universally conceived and applied — but multiple laws each of which was tailored to the doctrines and commands of a particular faith. In order to have law in the strong sense, Scalia is saying, you can have only one.
Read the rest of this interesting article if you wish at:
http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/25/serving-two-masters-shariah-law-and-the-secular-state/?scp=1&sq=stanley%20fish%20blog%20shariah&st=cse
A prediction: If this law goes down the drain, it won't be on the Shari'a clause, it will be on the international law clause.
Damned if they do, damned if they don't.
This must have heads spinning.
Two things are certain:
1) We can expect more pretzel logic and deep denial and deluded cultural equivalence fantasies in stark contrast to the facts from the MSM, and
2) More of the same imaginary victim card from Islamic Supremacists. Victims because they can't live under and impose 7th Century death cult laws instead of accepting 21st Century American laws -- where they have chosen to live.
Oklahoma has become a dust bowl to Islamic Supremacists.
Aren't "moderate" muslim constantly saying they don't want to impose sharia law?
If they don't want to impose it, why would they care about this amendment?
Bring it on.
The tectonic plate of sharia has been pushing itself against the tectonic plate of democracy for years. Not so much here, but certainly in Europe. And in Europe sharia has not found substantial resistance, explaining why Islam has made notable advances there. The abandonment of the principles of Christianity which at one time (and for a long time) undergird much of European mores inevitably made Muslim incursions that much easier. Morality like politics will not tolerate a vacuum.
As is its wont, Islam and its adherents are the aggressors, not seeking to be part of the system of any culture in which they may find themselves; rather their aim is to conquer culturally by any means.
Now the turn of the USA has arrived. But here Islam is going to find resistance, real resistance. Take OK’s farsighted, intelligent, and defensive response. The Koranimals are going to claim this change to OK's state constitution is itself unconstitutional. But that's impossible because under the Supremacy Clause of the US Constitution only law made in pursuance to “this Constitution” (the exact phrasing of Article VI) is supreme, and the OK Constitution expressly requires that its own laws follow that.
http://oklegal.onenet.net/okcon/I-1.html
And that is what OK oath takers swear to,
http://oklegal.onenet.net/okcon/XV-1.html
The recent OK amendment simply re-affirms this principle by stating that only federal and OK law shall be used in OK courtrooms. At its worst the 11/02/10 change to the OK Constitution is but a redundancy, reaffirming already existing law.
The clash between freedom and the submission demanded by Islam is better dealt with sooner than later.
What's the problem? The Constitution is the Constitution. It is the social contract between Americans and a government of, for, and by themselves. Allegiance to it is the fundamental condition of citizenship.
By taking issue with this vote, CAIR acknowledges there are things in Sharia that are in conflict with the U.S. Constitution, and those of the individual states.
So, by all means, let's open up that can of worms in the public forum.
For that matter, Oklahoma's new law may strengthen protection against the kind of abuse that has already happened in New Jersey:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/sharia-in-new-jersey-muslim-husband-rapes-wife-judge-sees-no-sexual-assault-because-husbands-religio.html
I agree...CAIR is too stupid to realize they even opened the can of worms. What a great way to have a public debate about islam and shariah without having to be PC and worrying about what the MSM has to say about it. Bring it on fools...CAIR is the best thing for the US to identify islam for what it is...intolerant and incapatible with the US Constitution.
"incompatible"
Robert:
"They will mount this challenge on the claim that it outlaws things like halal meat and personal Muslim prayer, but that is unlikely to succeed, since those things don't actually constitute the use of a law other than American law to legislate for Americans"
But that's the crux, isn't it? They see those things as law, they're not "religious practices," as Westerners understand them. Since the shari'a is one...law as well as life, they must proceed. To deny that prayer and eating kufr-free meat is the shari'a would be tantamount to shirk or idolatry, or bid'a. No?
"Civil rights" leaders opposing the outlawing of stonings, amputations and the murder of apostates? My, how far we've come.
Aren't "moderate" muslim constantly saying they don't want to impose sharia law?
If they don't want to impose it, why would they care about this amendment?
-------------------------
There are secular or moderate muslims who have immigrated to the US to escape the sharia law and practice Islam how they wish. Those people are not a danger to the US
It's the Islamic Jihadists and their ilk that are the danger. Those who are devout and wish to bring sharia are the ones we have to worry about. if Sharia law is allowed to be practiced in the US, then we also have to worry about moderates. Not because they "want" to but because they will likely be forced under threat of violence by jihadists.
With a suit like this, CAIR reps appear to have opened Islam up for the public scrutiny they've tried so hard to avoid. They've also exposed their organization for the anti-American Constitution bag of shit that it is.
"Not because they "want" to but because they will likely be forced under threat of violence by jihadists."
Wri7913,
They have a "choice" to not be forced, especially in America. People like Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ibn Warraq, and our very own Saleem Smith (http://www.considerationsofacanadianex-muslim.org/) "chose" to leave Islam, at a very personal risk to their lives. Also, people like Robert, Pamela, Raymond Ibrahim and many others "choose" to speak out against the evils of Islam, also at great personal expense.
I'm not disagreeing with you, only pointing out that if we, and that includes "moderate" Muslims, don't stand up for what we believe, like the aforementioned people, then we are doomed to dhimmitude.
Ima
Not everyone can chose to leave Islam as Saleem Smith did (and he even admits he has to avoid those people he used to hang out with in Islam). For a family that is several generations Muslim, it may be more difficult to deal with those kinds of things. In some cases they may decided to go along with it to avoid the violence and do as little as they can to hurt anyone. That's just a fact we would have to deal with.
It is very much like the Mafia in NYC or Chicago that would strong arm businesses. Not everyone is in a position to stand against it.
I do agree Moderate Muslims should stand up for what they believe if they want to practice religious Islam freely in this country. We should also keep in mind we may need to bring about tools to help that along.
We ALL should stand against Sharia ever becoming established in the US. OK referendum is a very good first step and this should be repeated 49 more times to make it absolutely clear to Islamists we won't allow it here.
And that is exactly WHY "moderate" Muslims escaping sharia are a problem. Ultimately, they are weak and will obey orders or run away. They will not fight for freedom. If sharia comes to the US they will meekly obey or run to...I don't know...is there anywhere left to run to?
Hmmm...an injunction to squelch elector choice. Muz make a good case against inclusivism with that logic.
Why can't people understand that, wherever muz have the numbers, they use their majority status to impose sharia. Even where they are a minority, they want muz personal law.
Another opinion:
http://www.americanrhetoric.com/speeches/gwbush911islamispeace.htm
Like the way you put it, Cornelius. Again we can see how modern leftism and Islam are such good allies. Fortunately, both are on the wrong side of history, but the working out of this will entail a lot of woe in the immediate decades to come. Still optimistic long term though. Sure hope I live long enough (you too) to see the great "turn-around" Hope all is well with you and yours. Take care, pal.
Oklahoma has a history of putting some pretty funky items up for public approval, like an attempt to have the public vote on banning homosexuals from having any job in public schools, even in the capacity of janitor or cafeteria worker. That law was never passed.
This referendum to ban sharia and other legal systems that contradict American law is actually a double-edged sword, and could backfire, as one poster suggested.
I actually welcome this controversy because it raises public awareness of the issues in question.
Once you strip away Islam's totalitarian ambitions, I am really not clear what characteristic it has left that enraptures "moderate" muslims. If there is a true "spirituality" to Islam it evades me (but others presumably see it?).
If there truly is something "worthy" for moderate muslims to pursue in an Islam stripped of sharia, then assisting moderates in escaping the clutches of sharia is worthwhile.
The problem is that totalitarianism doesn't need to take over an entire nation, it just has to take over what ever it can...totally... be it a neighbourhood, or a city, or a state....Creeping sharia = creeping totalitarianism = no go zones.
The creeping happens because our governments and law enforcement agencies (and in declining relevance our mainstream media)fail to give a clear message through actions and words that the thugs of Islam will not be tolerated. And the message is not clear when the Ayaan Hirsi Ali's need round the clock protection, and the Molly Norrises go ghost on the advice of the FBI.
We have to draw the line clearly now: no sharia. If we do this we do not need to concern ourselves any longer with trying to distinguish moderate muslims from the "others". Declaw the cat and it will still be a cat, right? If Islam is otherwise worthy, it can still be Islam if it is de-sharia'd, right?
veteranoutrage.com
Again i say to all Muslims
You hate all of us so much
you hate Christians so much you wish to rape then kill them
you hate jews so much you drool at the chance to kill them
So Go back to your damned hell holes that Islam has created
say in somalia , bosnia, iran, kenya
Just look for the nation with the most
BULLET HOLES and you will know that your HOME..
So go away
Get the hell out of our country
You all hate us, we dont trust or like you
because we all know that islam == terrorism..
So go away..
leave..
go back to your islamic hell err paradise
I wont miss you
not one bit..
The only Oklahoman I have ever had the privilege to know was a marvelous young woman from the (city - town?) of Edward, some 50 years ago. Through my friendship with her I learned that the last people in this world who will ever roll over and play dead are the legendary Sooners.
Well done, Oklahomans; I'm confident that your great state will be the bellwether for the remaining 49.
Every single state must pass similar laws. Give CAIR a run for their money. How much do you think they'd spend in courts across the country trying to suppress the laws against them?
The more they spend on law suits, the less they have for bombs.
Spend away morons. Stay strong Oklahoma. We're all behind you.
Wonder what they're going to do when the nation has laws that forbid any sharia laws to be invoked in the nation. Cry? Leave? Oh please, leave.
The Hamas-linked Islamic supremacists of CAIR...
We'd be remiss in this context to not recall what was done in the name of Allah's cause at the Murrah Federal Building.
Is Jayna Alexander a conspiracy theorist? Her husband? Well, if conspiracies can't exist, then why do the feds have RICO?
It was a sad day when Saddam Hussein's operatives used McVeigh and Nichols as cutaways, and put terror into downtown Oklahoma City. It was much worse that Bill Clinton and the awful Janet Reno committed treason and covered up the truth of what was done there in 1995. The American people deserve to know the truth, for only armed with that can they know to defend themselves.
You got that right suprkufrB! My great grandfather was a Choctaw Native American who lived in Oklahoma at the turn of the 20th century. He grew up hearing the stories of his great/grandparent's walking the trail of tears... Let me assure you his progeny have absolutely no inclination of giving up their land or their way of life to appease anyone ever! I myself lived in Oklahoma for several years and got to know some of my long lost relatives and let me just assure everyone here... sharia aint gonna happen in sooner land! I'd put my money on a corn fed country boy with a stick over a jihadist with an ak47 anyday! :)
Pretty much OT, but:
I'm an Australian, and I want to know...*why* are people from Oklahoma called 'Sooners'??
To wri7913
"There are secular or moderate muslims who have immigrated to the US to escape the sharia law and practice Islam how they wish. Those people are not a danger to the US"
the problem is that "moderate" muslims (I prefer to call them "inactive")carry with them the koran and some favorable regard for muhammad. They may be no problem today, nor, perhaps, their children, nor maybe their grandchildren. Perhaps not their great-granchildren. But somewhere along the way someone is going to look at what Islam actually says: therein lies the rub.
To Dumble________: Oklahoma was founded by a government run land rush in the 19th Century. There was a specific date and time when people, arranged on line (not internet on line), were given the "Go!" and they all took off to find their land. The Sooners were those people who jumped the official start usually a day or more in advance. Basically speaking they cheated.
I was under the impression that they could only sue after the law actually caused injury to someone.
I suspect (and dearly hope) this will back fire catastrophically in CAIRS face. Oklahoma isn't exactly a state that subscribe to PC insanity and is unlike to be cowed by threats of insensitivity (they put this law on the ballot for starters). I also think that a lot of information is going to come out about Sharia law as part of the discovery process...whether the press pays attention or not is another matter.
Along with being a definite step in the right direction for Western Civilization, this could also turn into an interesting study in the on going battle between the rights of the states and the powers of the federal government.
Yes, CAIR wants to stop the oppression of/discrimination against Muslims, which includes forbidding them from torturing "confessions" out of teenage girls before hogtying them and murdering them in cold blood, or beating their wives, or taking multiple wives, or taking wives who aren't old enough to be out of kindergarten, or to commit "honor" killings after raping their own female family members because the females brought "shame" on their family/clan/cult. What a swell bunch CAIR is.
It's all part of their master plan. Infiltrate and populate America and then attempt to use our laws and religious freedoms to acquire seperate laws (Sharia) to govern Muslims. The grand plan is eventual take-over, "they do not want to coexist."
We must establish that Islam is not a religion it is a abominable ruthless intolerant sexist cult. Ideologies that promote murder, pedophilia, forced marriage, female abuse, ........, does not receive protection under freedom of religion!!
Here are a couple of scenerios on how this goes down.
1) As the right questions are asked, cair withdrawals their lawsuit.
2) This lawsuit is thrown out by the judge.
3) This lawsuit goes down in flames when the judgment comes back that it does not conflict with the Constitution as states are allowed to set the rules for the state/local courts to follow and it doesn't prevent anyone from practicing their religion, even the ultra-violent supremecist ideologies.
This is his personal opion but when it come to make legal ruleing his personal opion are put aside. Bussieness are now international in they dealing so there is international bussien law and law of international concarts.This law will allow the people of this state to cheat people in other nation and the state courts will not be able to enforce international bussienes laws and contacts. It will allow unentic buther to sell pork meat as beef meat without the courts being able to stop it. Plus Internation law is now official federal common law and that include Islamist law too. This state will lose alots of international bussieness and will lose money.
The clause you are quoteing say that international law is apart of the constition laws.
The damned scumbags remind me of Orcs from Lord of the Rings.
Your doing fine Oklahoma, Oklahoma OK. Stick to your guns (not necessarily literally.) Maybe CAIR should be renamed COIL for Council Of Islamic Litigation or something similar.
This is a great opportunity to let the SUN SHINE IN! We must pray that no PC will enter the picture. It's high time a public stance like this is taken against Shariah.
It seems that moderate Muslims are actually passive-aggresive Muslim that want others to do their "Dirty Work", that is Jihad. IT seems that the Moderates are just practicing taquiyya.
This is a great opportunity to let the SUN SHINE IN! We must pray that no PC will enter the picture. It's high time a public stance like this is taken against Shariah.
It seems that moderate Muslims are actually passive-aggresive Muslim that want others to do their "Dirty Work", that is Jihad. It seems that the Moderates are just practicing taquiyya.
This lawsuit will, once and for all define what Sharia is and what it is not, which I suspect may be a problem for CAIR because they have been able to deflect the question by saying Sharia has many forms and means different things to different people.
They will have to clearly state WHAT it is and show how it is compatibale with the Constitution.
Good luck with that.
Showing their true colors certainly.
It still blows my mind to see smarmy Ibrahim Hooper interviewed without mention of what he has said regarding shariah in America.
There was a land rush in the late 1800's, I believe. Those who jumped the start gun and went and laid claim to the land before the start gun was fired were known as Sooners.
I'm from Texas and I've met a lot of Okies and they are good conservative hard working people. One of my best friends was an Okie and his mother was a full blooded American Indian. Will Rogers was an Oklahoma cowboy humorist who said "I never met a man I did't like". He had a lot of common sense quotations. Google him.
I'd like to see Texas do the same as Oklahoma. I think I'll write my State Senator to try to get something started. Unfortunately, I believe we have a Texas Sharia system for arbitration, I've learned. Not sure how that sneaked into our Texas legal system.