Muslims to West: “Respect Islam”

Pamela Geller hits this one right on the head:

Islamic terror? Respect it, Islamophobe!

Clitorectomies? Respect them!

Honor Killings? Respect them!

Persecution of Chrsitians, Jews, Hindus, non-Muslims? Respect it!

Desecration of non-Muslim holy sites? Respect it!

Islamic supremacism? Respect it!

Lack of candor and criticism of Islam? Respect it!

Homicide bombers? Respect them!

Jihad? Respect it!

Jew-hatred? Respect it!

Women as chattel? Respect it!

Burka? Respect it!

“Muslims tell West: ‘respect Islam,'” by Megan Detrie for The National, November 28 (thanks to Pamela Geller):

A large majority of Muslims say the best way for the West to improve relations with them is to “respect Islam,” according to a new Gallup poll.

Not this: “A large majority of Muslims say the best way for the West to improve relations with them would be for jihadis to knock off the terrorist attacks and stealth jihad in the West.”

When asked what could improve relations, Muslims’ most common reply was respect their religion. For 72 per cent, that meant not desecrating the Quran or Islam’s religious symbols. More than half (52 per cent) felt the West could also show respect by treating Muslims fairly in policies that affect them….

Of course. As always, it’s all our fault.

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Comments

  1. says

    Strange how all of history, in country after country, shows us that “respecting” Islam leads to subjugation and the (sometimes gradual) implementation of sharia law as laid out in the Islamic texts, while doing the opposite and fighting it until it is defeated without mercy results in freedom.

  2. says

    I may “respect” a rattlesnake, but that doesn’t mean I would ever embrace it. Islam is the rattlesnake of ideologies. It is hostile to non-Muslims and calls them “najis” (filth) in Surah 9:28. Muslims are warned not to make friends with Jews or Christians in Surah 5:51. Islam must win converts through compulsion or unwilling submission per Surah 3:83. Why is it my responsiblity to improve relations with Muslims when their ideology is so hostile to non-Muslims?

  3. says

    The demands are always one sided when it comes to what Muslims want or as their percentages grow they will demand it.

    I never see it the other way around when it comes to Islamic teachings and sharia. If the US where an Islamic country and anyone of us said anything derogatory about Islam we would be put up on blasphemy charges and more than likely killed as is happening to people as we write her now.

    The horror of Islam is a daily constant where ever it pokes its fundamental head. Is it any wonder that 96Pct. of Islamic countries are run by dictators and there is little freedom in most of them. The opposite is true in Western societies.

    I find it virtually impossible to respect such an archaic, violent,and hateful religion.

  4. says

    “When asked what could improve relations, Muslims’ most common reply was respect their religion. For 72 per cent, that meant not desecrating the Quran or Islam’s religious symbols. More than half (52 per cent) felt the West could also show respect by treating Muslims fairly in policies that affect them….”

    Meanwhile, the Moslems are under no obligation to reciprocate such respect. In the Moslem world non-Moslems can be persecuted, harassed, and intimidated with impunity; non-Moslem churches and temples can be desecrated, even destroyed, without penalties; and non-Moslem holy books can be confiscated or prohibited as a matter of routine.
    If one wants to be respected, one first must be respectable; and the Moslems aren’t.

  5. says

    Islamic terror? Respect it, Islamophobe!
    Clitorectomies? Respect them!
    Honor Killings? Respect them!
    Persecution of Chrsitians, Jews, Hindus, non-Muslims? Respect it!
    Desecration of non-Muslim holy sites? Respect it!
    Islamic supremacism? Respect it!
    Lack of candor and criticism of Islam? Respect it!
    Homicide bombers? Respect them!
    Jihad? Respect it!
    Jew-hatred? Respect it!
    Women as chattel? Respect it!
    Burka? Respect it!

    I picture a short, fat, grotesque Mullah, the splitting image of Eric Cartman, shoving a hotdog (or falafel dog) into his face as he goes, “RESPEC ISLAM’S AUTHORITAH!!!”

    However, much like no one actually fears Eric Cartman, neither should the free West fear the Imams and the Mullahs. For they have no Authoritah over free infidels and non-dhimmis.

  6. says

    Islam is a fascist political ideology, built on a lie…inept plaguerism of the worst kind.
    The only way Muslims and their apologists can deflect attention from this simple, obvious fact is through threat,(physical or stealthy) violence/murder, vitriolic criticism, and…..
    the worst facet, a simpering, cloak of self pity, laughably claiming victim-hood, even racism, for an ever growing list of demands,(yes…not requests).
    To any sane person what is there to respect?

    driven by their founder
    Such an meglomite was he, all his actions were tracked, written down, by muslim sources close to him, therefore when it is said, he was a murderer, rapist , proven liar, child abuser, jew hater, meglomaniac, these are facts, from muslim sources, how can this abhorrent individual, be considered, prophet-like?? therefore how can he be respected?

    Every single muslim, who lauds mohammed as the perfect example, the perfect man , who utters peace be upon him, is nothing but an apologist for Islam, of the highest order.
    just how then can this er..”faith” be given respect

    in fact i would hazard a guess that it is the most despised not respected…..a hard lesson, but resoect has be earned.

    they are in for a tough time if they keep on demanding, times are hard, and they are a changin, pc is getting to be old sh-t baby

    The Reason… Americans Brits, Europeans are more anti-Islamic now than they were on 9/11 is that, in the ensuing nine years, they’ve learned more about Islam.
    What they’ve learned is that Islam, in active mode, is indeed a violent and threatening fascistic ideology, more than a religion;
    and that Islam in passive mode, despite that being the majority of Muslims, is worse than useless at stemming the tide of millions of murderous Islamists.
    This has nothing to do with ignorance, paranoia and economic fear, and everything to do with PAYING ATTTENTION

  7. says

    When asked what could improve relations, Muslims’ most common reply was respect their religion.

    But, but… To “respect Islam” is to respectfully accept their attacks on the ‘infidels’ for refusing to ‘respect’ or accept Islam… that’s Catch 22!.. Sick.. twisted religion… !!!

  8. says

    The profound cultural bias AGAINST freedom of speech in the Muslim world is staggering. They imagine they have the right not to be offended, despite their phenomenal anti-semitism and anti-Christian rhetoric and endless jihad attacks.

    Well, I’d wipe my ass with pages of the koran but won’t. I respect my ass too much! The followers of Mohamsandwich and their dictator “god” Allah can kiss my ass, too, wiped or not!

    (Note to JW readers: I’ll attempt in future to lower my own rhetoric but I get so damn angry sometimes with the totalitarianism inherent in the culture of the koranimals.)

  9. says

    These Muslims being polled have been getting their lines from their imams, who instruct them the Americans must “respect” Islam. And while sermonizing the Imam quotes from a standard dictionary the meaning of respect as “high regard, esteem”. So, the Muslim’s knowledge of the English language being minimal, he doesn’t know that the normal usage of the word nowadays doesn’t mean that at all. Nowadays when we say “respect” a religion we English-speaking people mean it’s okay and we’re not going to bother subjecting it to criticism. Effectively to respect a religion means to not care about it one way or another. But these Muslims understand “being respected” as being granted status of superiority because they think that’s what the word actually means to non-Muslims.

  10. says

    How can anyone respect a religion that says that non-Muslims are ‘the vilest of creatures’ and that Muslims are ‘the best of people’?

    Respect is a two-way street. Islam is a cul-de-sac.

  11. says

    No Reform, no respect. Total Reform — cutting off (and they are good at cutting things off) everything post-Mecca. Nothing can ever make me “respect” Islam. Nothing short of total de-fanging can ever make me even tolerate it.

  12. says

    It seems that both sides in this issue of cultural definition and direction are being pulled tighter into a whirlpool of anger and distrust. Such distrust is a logical consequence of items Ms. Geller has outlined above, but a different approach may be helpful in moving us in a different direction.

    One of my most cherished guidance comes from a Sufi tradition which states:

    “Would that the mind should not entrap thee teach it the Science of the Love of God.”

    While Mr. bin Laden may not be willing to sit down and “dialog about the Love of God” there may be a large number of other Muslims who might. While I acknowledge support for the Muslim Brotherhood is strong, yet the numbers actually stepping forward for Jihad are in the thousands out of a population pool of 1.3 billion, thus a very small percentage.

    What if our point of discussion was how can the whole planet create a global civilization that honors, and is in keeping with the vision of God,

    “Most Gracious, Most Merciful”.

    (The Qur’an (Yusuf Ali tr), Surah 1 [and all but the 9th Surah thereafter])

  13. says

    Ask islam this. I am an atheist-Jew(I believe in my Heritage not in my faith.) If they are willing to respect my point of view that there is no such thing as G-d I will be open minded to them. But alas that cannot happen.

  14. says

    As we know, Islam is all about give and take. The infidel is expected to do all the giving and the Muslim all the taking, then thank Allah for willing it. They’re not grateful. They’re the opposite. They’re extremely ungrateful. Theirs is a bigoted, killing killjoy cult that seeks to murder and dominate infidels, wipe out our culture and take away our pleasures in life. Just think of it. Women put in hideous sacks, no longer being able to go down to the pub or enjoy sports. No enjoying the sunshine, no music, art, museums, ringing of church bells and an utterly bleak dystopian existence, not to mention lashings and executions for the most trivial things. That would have been our fate had Charles Martel and many others lost, possibly only once, over the following 1,000 years. Martel, the Crusaders and so many others fought for the freedoms we enjoy today, though they might not have known it at that time. Richard the Lionheart’s men fought every bit as bravely as our Battle of Britain pilots, but 750 years earlier. And their fight was just as important. To have succumbed to the Jihad before 1300 would have been even more irreversible than succumbing to Hitler in 1940/41.

  15. says

    but more important is all the hundreds of millions of Muslims who, while not actually prepared to carry out jihad themselves, fully support the waging of holy war against anyone who impedes in any manner the eventual conquest of the earth by Islam.

    True, Wellington. Andrew McCarthy calls these Muslims, “pre-violent.” They would allow their more zealous co-religionists to assume the risks of violent Jihad, while supporting the same goals with their own less violent efforts as well as their cash – the Saudi royals would be an example.

  16. says

    Respect Islam? WTF! Exactly what is there to respect about it? Who would wanna live in the world if every country became a hell hole like every Islamic country?

  17. says

    To be fair, the question apparently was ‘what could *the West* do to improve relations with Muslims?’, so obviously the respondants couldn’t answer with ‘stop carrying out jihad attacks’. Still, why on earth they think their religion should get unearned respect is beyond me.

  18. says

    6th Pillar? – Respect it!

    Death sentence fatwa – Respect it!

    Pedophilia – Respect it!

    Incessant whining – Respect it!

    Constant mooching – Respect it!

    Allah endorsed lying to Infidels – Respect it!

    The sacred Cause of world takeover – Respect it!

  19. says

    This is madness. Tolerance means putting up with something. In this case, putting up with people until they assimilate into our society. Theres plenty of evidence to show that this isnt happening and theres only so much we can tolerate before people get fed up and angry.

    The question is how much is too much?

    http://waeshael.wordpress.com/

  20. says

    I don’t believe I was calling for the re-imposition of the Caliphate. I anticipate that emerging Global Civilization will be as different as the difference between the Roman Empire and the World we know today. Historically, the loving spirit of Christ truly began to be institutionalized in meaningful ways when the people of Britain began to guarantee the rights of people, trial by jury and eventually the freedom of each person to investigate the truths of religion for themselves.

    Admittedly, Islamic theology and traditions do not support this position, but millions of Muslims are flocking to live under such a framework. The future will be very far from that which is locked into traditional belief, but please acknowledge that we have traditions that need to be evaluated as well.

    As to quoting from the Qur’an, Mr. Spencer repeatedly calls on us to read the Qur’an. In order to change the heart of Muslim we would need to them in a language that they would connect to. Expressing anger and frustration will lead to gridlock and possibly deeper armed conflict. Again, as Mr. Spencer states in the conclusion of “The Complete Infidel’s Guide to the Koran”, ideas do have significant consequences. We need new ideas for the future?

    While you might think this naive, please consider how those who knew in their heart that slavery was wrong and called for equality of all people eventually prevailed, though it did take centuries.

    As to the “Science of the Love of God” I am drawn to ideas such as:
    – Seeking to develop a kindly heart.
    – Looking at the good in others and striving to encourage them in creating a better World.
    – Loving people for the sake of God and not for themselves.

    Shalom

  21. says

    Ah, but it quite impossible for western civilization, born of the Enlightenment, to “respect” terrorism, misogyny, jihad, and sharia. Happy to “tolerate” the troglodytes as long as they don’t interfere with my civilization. Got a real problem when the troglodytes try to impose their stone-age culture on it.

    http://libertyatstake.blogspot.com/
    “Because the Only Good Progressive is a Failed Progressive”

  22. says

    Truthseeker says, among other things, it’s preferable to love people for the sake of God (Allah?) rather than for themselves. Doesn’t that mean it’s so very hard to find something loveable in human beings but it’s so easy to love a supernatural being who must be largely unknowable because He exists in a different realm of existence? As if it’s easier to love something far away that you don’t know much about than to love what’s close at hand which can be known intimately. This is backwards and upside down thinking, in my book.It’s not truth, not even getting close, it flees from truth and evades and escapes it.

  23. says

    The broader range of discussion in this thread is appreciated as a learning experience. Coming to grips with the foundation new Civilization possibilities will certainly take some time.

    I suggest that the institutionalization of Christ’s Mercy in England is based on the quantum shift of the rule of law that went from:

    “Guilty until proven innocent.” which totally supports the Emperor or King to…

    “Innocent until proven guilt.” which significantly protects the rights the most humble and poorest of the poor.

    True there were many Christian institutions, but this change in the system of justice has very important implications for the development of ours and the most prosperous of civilizations. It is this type of change that is needed in how we see the World working.

    As to the potential of “transforming Islam”, historically, from Krishna, to Buddha, to Moses or Christ, such a deep pervasive transformation has been connected with the emergence of a “new Messenger of God”.

    Best wishes

  24. says

    Well no duh!
    it simple..what they ask us is to respect their religion thats it….( so stop interfering)
    Half of the ppl commenting on this page either dont know crap about the religion or dont have anything better to do..
    …U.S foreign policies have always negatively affected the arab world whether its supplying israel with weapons, pressurizing saudiz to sell oil below market price, supporting the oppression of muslims on china,india,polland,palestine, or supporting corrupt arab leaders……
    if some foriegn country invaded america cuz of all this would you relax and sit back seeing ur family being killed or fight them till they get the hell out of the country? ( This is called defensive jihad for those who dont noe what it is)
    They see you guys attacking Islam…cuz wherever you guys go…ur hell bent on spreading democracy over night like ancient times…and everything you do from drones etc…effects them real negative…..
    Instead of yappin it ppl shld learn sum facts and history!
    …pamela geller should be concerned about her ppl and her faith then sticking her nose into the lives of other people….

  25. says

    R-E-S-P-E-C-T
    Find out what it means to me…

    Thank you, Aretha.

    Respect? You muslims want respect? You, who don’t know the meaning of the word–you want respect from me?

    Here’s some respect for ya’:

    You are sick, disgusting excuses for humanity.
    You are the worst of people. You are vampires, locusts, societal pathogens. You are anathema
    to everything I respect and hold dear.
    Take your “Religion of Peace” and all its associated barbarity & mendacity and get the hell out of my country.

    Hope I made myself clear there…

  26. says

    Islam doesn’t deserve any respect.

    The problem here is the lack of respect Muslims show unbelievers.

    If Muslims want to improve relations with the West they need to stop behaving like Barbarians.

  27. says

    LOL! You all try to reason with logic and common sense…

    Understand, you infidels, that allah is not bound by logic and common sense. Mohammedanism beats gravity, good & bad, right & wrong and humanity….

  28. says

    What they are failing to understand is that western thought is capable of discerning truth from dogma.

    We adapt as information comes in and base our conclusions on rolling evidence.

    Our flexibility to alter previous mindsets is what sets us apart and unlike the immutability of their cast in stone Koranic philosophy, we evolve according to circumstance.

    Only the most ardent Islamophiles and lying politicians are either in the case of the former, truly blind, or in the latter, wilfully blind as to what’s going on.

    Religion of Peace has been parroted for so long any intelligent person with an inquiring mind has to wonder at the insanity of this mindlessly repetative nomenclature.

    Nothing could be further from a universal truth when we see how the world is alloted in status into Dar el Islam and Dar el Harb. This is the ultimate example of geographic and social apartheidt and total reverse of the inclusivity we are urged to extend to our brethren.

    The merest delving reveals the Islamic version of ‘peace, that of a world divided into unresisting conquered dhimmi’s and their triumphal masters.

    No doubt the Nazi’s envisaged a similar scenario.

  29. says

    “”Respect Islam””?!? Thanks for the laugh – it’s always nice to start my day with something funny. I feel “”sorry”” for Muslims who have for centuries been deceived by the Prophet Mohammad (may that tool of the devil roast in Hell). If Muslims want respect then they should start acting like Christians.

  30. says

    Humans to islamists:-
    Respect civilization
    Respect art
    Respect literature
    Respect human rights
    Respect history { that’s the real history, not your version}
    Respect women
    Respect children
    Respect diversity
    Respect others opinions, particularly when they are obviously intellectually superior to you .
    Respect cultures…” ” ” ” ‘ ”

    etc. etc. etc.

  31. says

    Your sentiments are understandable and your play on the word “respect” is funny. Islam is in no way respectable in the sense that we use the term.

    I agree with Wellington. I will never respect Islam either.

  32. says

    How’s this for a more useful direction, Truthseeker?

    Take your religion and your lies and your Koran and your global caliphate nightmare world vision and shove it up your ass.

  33. says

    Nice try Truthseeker, but Islam has no love in it. Love as an abstract noun is never under consideration. Islam is rotten to its very core. Its founder was rotten, its texts are rotten, its ideas, theology, and practices are rotten. Come up with the ninety-nine names of its rotteness, its putrefaction, by all names it is the same.

    What if our point of discussion was how can the whole planet create a global civilization that honors, and is in keeping with the vision of God,

    There is no single global civilization. In any case, even if there were, Islam could never be a part of one. Islam hasn’t a creative idea, nor has it any real god.

    Signum pacis amor – Islamismus belli signum.

  34. says

    Islam is not made to honor those who disagree with it or think it wrong. I mean when you have a religion that requires death for those who leave that religion for another, when you have a religion that prohibits upon pain of death any criticism of it or its founder, when you have a religion that lists twelve unclean things and one of them is urine, another feces and another non-believers, you have a belief system that has zero capability of ever honoring real freedom of religion, freedom of speech and true respect for human beings who are not adherents of that belief system. You know all this or should know it. Seems you don’t.

    As for only mere thousands out of 1.3 billion who are actually ready to wage jihad, first of all I think this number is rather low, probably more like hundreds of thousands if not a few million, but more important is all the hundreds of millions of Muslims who, while not actually prepared to carry out jihad themselves, fully support the waging of holy war against anyone who impedes in any manner the eventual conquest of the earth by Islam. A very conservative estimate of Muslims who advocate jihad in its more rigorous ways would be 15% of the world’s Islamic population. Personally, I think it much higher, but even if only 15% that would still represent going on some 200 million Mohammedans.

    I will tell you frankly that Islam has no more capacity for reform than does Marxism or fascism. It makes little difference that not all Muslims are most diligent in carrying out the directives of their faith. Many Communists and Nazis weren’t in full throttle mode either but it never made Communism or Nazism OK. Ditto for Islam, which cannot be reformed but only discarded and then chalked up as one of the greatest errors in man’s history. You see, you can’t rehabilitate evil. You must eliminate it.

  35. says

    “Most Gracious, Most Merciful” – that bit is from the Bible stolen by Mo. The only thing original found in Koran are listed by PG above: So go back where you belong and tell your lies to your kinds…

  36. says

    Truthseeker says “there may be a large number of … Muslims who might [follow Sufiism]. Me not know anything. Sufiism must be a newfangled recent version of Muhammadanism sure to catch on, especially among the younger crowd of Muslims seeking for spiritual fulfillment in this modern world. Sounds great! Let’s give it a try, and hold off on the Counter-Jihad thinking. Do no evil, see no evil, hear no evil.

  37. says

    “Would that the mind should not entrap thee teach it the Science of the Love of God.”

    I believe that this is possibly a deceptive quote.

    It sounds on the surface like a kind of mystical, philosophical, spiritual kind of musing, but what we see in Islam is that Muslims believe they alone practice the ‘science’ of loving God – pray five times a day, do hajj, zakat, etc etc – this is the ‘science of the love of God’, according to Muslims. This is the scientific formula of how to love God, and of course belief in Muhammad is a vital part of the Islamic science-of-love equation. There is no real belief that there is a multitude of ways to express love to God, that to some people, love isn’t expressed through certain rituals, that love is an overarching principle unlike any we find in Islam, not a set of practices and religious doctrines.

    Those who don’t do these Islamic practices, whose minds tell them that Islam is just the product of a mere man on an ego trip, have been entrapped by their minds not to practice the science of loving God.

  38. says

    Your post is right on the money, Adam. According to the Koran, atheists must die. They don’t even get a chance to live as second class citizens in Truthseeker’s nightmare world Islamic caliphate like Jews and Christians.

    However, I have to ask why you, as somebody who embraces logic and facts as an atheist, doesn’t just write “god” but instead writes “G-d”? Why are you afraid to write the name of an imaginary deity? Is it just habit? No disrespect intended, but it just seems odd.

  39. says

    I am an atheist-Jew(I believe in my Heritage not in my faith.) If they are willing to respect my point of view that there is no such thing as G-d I will be open minded to them. But alas that cannot happen.

    Leaving aside the question how a Jew can separate his (Jewish) heritage from his (Jewish)faith, (not to mention the incoherence of both having a faith and not believing in it) I find it quite surprising that you are ready to “be open minded to them” (mohammedans or Islam)”if they are willing to respect” your atheism.
    Is islam’s hostility to atheism the only thing that prevents you “to be open minded to them”?
    Does it mean that if tomorrow Islam starts tolerating atheism, but continues its historical orgy of murder, enslaving and terrorizing active Christians, Jews, Hindu, Buddhists or animists you will be inclined “to be open minded” toward Islam’s “positive aspects”? If so, would you mind enumerating these aspects?

  40. says

    I am very much in agreement with your previous post, classicus, where you mentioned that Islam has no love in it. This is so true. There is no love in Islam. There is submission. There is obedience. There is domination of others. There is an inability to apologize for wrongdoing. There is a domination complex. But there is no love, especially no romantic love. Telling. Damning. It’s as though Islam is the religion with those dead eyes that sharks have.

  41. says

    If there ever were any love in Islam, it would be like what my French cousins sometimes tell me: “In America, if the food is good, it is an accident.”

  42. says

    Yes, many lost their heads over Tamerlane. It must have made them respect Islam even more.

    Gibbon wrote, that at Aleppo, Tamerlane, called Timour in Gibbon’s narrative, said: “I am not a man of blood; and God is my witness that in all my wars I have never been the aggressor, and that my enemies have always been the authors of their own calamity.” (The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, vol. VIII., Folio Edition, p.113)

    Now that sounds familiar.

  43. says

    This “G-d” thing is getting popular. I don’t understand it, myself. I have seen it used by atheists and a Jew, but I don’t think by any Christians. Very odd.

  44. says

    Admittedly, Islamic theology and traditions do not support this position, but millions of Muslims are flocking to live under such a framework. The future will be very far from that which is locked into traditional belief, but please acknowledge that we have traditions that need to be evaluated as well.

    You are kind hearted Truthseeker and there is nothing wrong with that. You may believe that a Global Civilization is emerging so perhaps you are a seer as well as a seeker. I don’t believe at all in an emerging Global Civilization. If anything, the world seems to be becoming more like the Ancient World – one good reason to study the classics I would say. Study them and you will be a classicus as well. Man’s nature is ever the same, so said Thucydides, who wrote a book that could be sub-titled;The Handbook of Human Nature.

    The Muslims who come to the West bring their problems with them. That is one challenge. That the elite of the Islamic world question the very legitimacy of the West and seek its destruction is another. The Ancient World was rife with conflict and the world going forward will be as well.

    I see no traditions that we have that need to be re-evaluated, except our own assumptions with regard to our freedoms, that we have choices to make about those freedoms, that they are not permanent, and that they must be tended. The Athenians lost their freedoms, eventually the Romans lost theirs, and so can we. Islam most directly challenges our freedoms now.

    Victor Davis Hanson had this to say in the article, Losing the Enlightenment:

    The war on terror has turned out to be the torn scab that has exposed a deep wound beneath, of an endemic Western self-loathing ” and near mania that our own superior education and material wealth have not eliminated altogether the need for force and coercion.

    The most devout Muslims want our destruction. There can be no compromise or accommodation with that.

  45. says

    No, you weren’t calling for reimposition of the caliphate but that misses the point (actually, classic strawman argument on your part). What you were, in effect, calling for is respect for Islam and that can never be because Islam is, as Bertrand Russell observed almost a century ago, the only major religion which is totalitarian in structure and ideology. Besides, Muslims demand the right not to be offended and that is, quite simply, childish. Fitting though, since Islam is the one world faith which from its birth has suffered from terminal adolescence.

    Every religion has a theological blueprint. Islam’s blueprint, some of which I outlined to you in my 11:25 A.M. post above (and to which you did not respond), is so replete with heinous doctrines that reform is impossible, just as it is with all other totalitarian belief systems. Besides, unlike every other major religion and ethical system which had founders who were not brutal or sexually perverted, Islam has in Mohammed a most deeply warped human being. Don’t forget, Mohammed himself said, “I have been made victorious through terror.” Mohammed also never had a sexual desire denied him by his Allah (how convenient), including, when in his fifties, having sexual intercourse with a nine-year old girl, Aisha. Model Man my ass.

    You mention love but seem oblivious of the fact that there is no love in Islam. Not romantic love, not brotherly love, not love of mankind, no love at all. You are trying to humanize a belief system which is, to its very essence, the antithesis of all that mankind at it best can produce. Islam is incapable of accepting freedom, criticism, rejection, love, fun (Ayatollah Khomeini’s assessment), respect for those who don’t accept Islam, equality with those who don’t accept Islam and a critical assessment of the human condition which allows for doubt without retribution in this world. I have no interest in trying to make peace with such an ideology. Nor should anyone who cherishes liberty. Between freedom and Islam there can never be a reconciliation.

    One last thing. You go by the name, “Truthseeker.” You are anything but. What you are is either a fool or a deceiver.

  46. says

    There’s a popular myth rampant nowadays that a global economy, and a kind of loose global civilization based on it, is something which began a few decades ago in the second half of the 20th century. But that myth is actually false. A global economy was already existing in 1492 when Chris Columbus landed in the Caribbean. Europes economy was integrated in some ways even then. There was world trade. And culture similarly. The whole thing grows, of course, century by century. The culture of the upper classes in the late middle ages and early modern period was in some ways identical all across Europe, even in Russia.
    You say “loving spirit of Christ became institutionalized” at the transition into the modern world, and you emphasize England for some reason. The Loving spirit of Christ, however, was well institutionalized throughout Christendom from the very earliest times in the Christianized ancient world. The Transition out from the late Middle Ages was not marked by any sudden emphasis on “the loving spirit of Christ”. Where does that idea come from? Perhaps you are of Arab background and trying to learn the history of the West. Try to spend more time on that before making generalizations beyond the knowledge you have.

  47. says

    The meretricious “Truthseeker” wrote:

    As to quoting from the Qur’an, Mr. Spencer repeatedly calls on us to read the Qur’an. In order to change the heart of Muslim we would need to them in a language that they would connect to.
    ……………………..

    Mr. Spencer urges Kaffirs to read the Qur’an for themselves not so they can debate pious Muslims”and certainly not for the supposed “wisdom’ contained therein”but to educate themselves about the baleful tenets of Islam itself.

    More:

    One of my most cherished guidance comes from a Sufi tradition which states:

    “Would that the mind should not entrap thee teach it the Science of the Love of God.”
    ……………………..

    And what if the God one “loves” is a vicious monster, which is the case with any Muslim who takes seriously their religion?

    It is, in fact, the love devout Muslims show to the savage “Allah” that leads them to violent Jihad and the brutal, oppressive imposition of Shari’ah law.

    Yet more:

    …when the people of Britain began to guarantee the rights of people, trial by jury and eventually the freedom of each person to investigate the truths of religion for themselves.

    Admittedly, Islamic theology and traditions do not support this position, but millions of Muslims are flocking to live under such a framework.
    ……………………..

    Many Muslims have come to the West for its wealth, and nothing more”and have brought their appalling creed with them. Many seek to impose Islam on the West.

    Even those who specifically fled the oppression of Dar-al-Islam have been loath, generally, to defend the West against their Jihad-minded co-religionists.

    Indeed, many have failed to notice that the problems of the Muslim world are due to its adherence to Islam, and all that that entails.

    By the way, “Truthseeker” is not a new poster”he just hasn’t weighed in here for awhile. If you seek out his older posts you can see he is an old hand at slinging Taqiyya”though not a particularly persuasive one.

  48. says

    You go by the name, “Truthseeker.” You are anything but. What you are is either a fool or a deceiver.

    Nothing is more obvious than that!

    And BTW, Wellington, do you always have to beat me to it?

  49. says

    You are too kind, Thomas_h. I’m nothing but an old man who allows himself, indulges himself, from time to time to remember the young days as if they were still here.

  50. says

    Oh, but the days are always young – none of them older than one day. And of course they are always here.
    And there are lot of people of the West, both young and old, who grow wiser, stronger, more confident and able to better express their intuitions about the historical crisis of our days because of your “indulging yourself”. Just keep on doing it.

    Take care, my friend.

  51. says

    Though an agnostic, what I find inexplicable, truly stupefying, is the continued refusal by Muslims in not recognizing that Jesus was an infinitely superior character to Mohammed.

    Jesus, as revealed in the New Testament, blows away Mohammed, decimates him, as evidenced by the Koran, Hadith and Sira. This is so painfully obvious, so completely clear, that the wonder of it all to me is how Muslims can continue to assert that Mohammed supecedes Jesus in any manner whatsoever.

    Deep inside the Islamic paradigm, the one that maintains that Mohammed is the last and greatest of the prophets, is a flaw so expansive that it in itself discredits Islam. That flaw is the one which elevates Mohammed over Jesus.

    To all Muslims who have retained any common sense and a sense of proportionality, I ask them to read the Four Gospels and the Acts and then read the Koran, Hadith and Sira. If one does so, how is it possible to conclude that Mohammed is the last and greatest of the prophets? I submit, again as a skeptic, that Jesus is so far a superior character to Mohammed that only a pre-conceived and warped agenda could allow one to argue otherwise.

    Anyone care to prove me wrong here? Specifically, why Mohammed is even more important, in touch with ultimate reality to the greatest extent possible by a human being and even greater so than Jesus?

  52. says

    Anyone care to prove me wrong here? Specifically, why Mohammed is even more important, in touch with ultimate reality to the greatest extent possible by a human being and even greater so than Jesus?

    It cannot be done sir. Only by the very slightest motion of the chin do Muslims acknowledge that Jesus was without sin. (His mother too.)

    Oddly, a sinless life does not qualify Jesus to be Muhammad’s equal, much less his superior, in the eyes of the Muslims.

    I thought that Mr. Gerbil-herbal Tea might take up a line similar to your challenge last night, when I asked him: Why is Islam true?

    I thought we might have an answer that began, “Islam is true because Muhammad ….”

    But alas.

  53. says

    I agree. Simply as a human being, Jesus is so much better from the standpoint of any normal decent human observer. It’s amazing how the personal characteristics of an arrogant imperious Muhammad are known as such by the Muslim but they think THAT is the best kind of guy. We know they don’t read the New Testament, considering it to be corrupted. Even so, the “fictional Jesus” they say is described therein is ALSO vastly superior to Muhammad. Actually they are two very different types of person to the effect it’s almost ludicrous to even compare them. Jesus was the quintessential heroic loser (who really wins out) and Muhammad is the guy who NEVER loses, always wins. The Muhammadan mindset is permanently tuned in to winning. Winning is all that matters. And if they see they can’t win, they sit back and do nothing instead. Losing is out of the question.

  54. says

    For the record, I will never respect Islam.
    ………………………

    Hear, hear, Wellington!

    As Pamela Geller’s list notes, this is *exactly* what “respecting” Islam would entail, and it deserves *no* respect from any decent human being.

  55. says

    Again you are too kind, my friend, but I thank you from the bottom of my heart nonetheless and I think I will take you up on the offer to continue to “indulge myself.” Chalk it up to enlightened narcissism (please forgive the oxymoron).

    May you and those closest to you have a Christmas season to remember. Ah, there’s nothing in the Islamic world approaching the magic, mystery, fun, atmosphere, love, good will to all mankind and romance which the Christmas season does so well. You know, there are really three Christmases out there—the commercial one, the religious one and the one which is an unforgettable frame of mind. The first is OK at best and often annoying (except for kids). The second is to be honored because Christians honor it and Christians are no threat to liberty whatsoever and many times produce wonderful folks who do wonderful things. The last is forever, to be embraced by all who wish all of mankind well without threats for not doing this, that and the other thing that some ideologies demand or else.

    Again, thank you and take good care. I must tell you that I still remain optimistic that all control-freak ideologies will eventually be defeated. But this twenty-first century of ours is going to be touch and go nonetheless.

  56. says

    Your comment, Bhobby, reminds me of what Jane Eyre says to St. John in Charlotte Bronte’s masterpiece and that is that one cannot love just God alone. Some Christians are culpable here but far, far more Muslims are.

  57. says

    I thought we might have an answer that began, “Islam is true because

    Classicus, islam is true because muslims believe it. Blind faith requires no evidence and tolerates no skepticism.

    I have spent many hours contemplating the methods muslims use to brainwash generation after generation. I believe fear is the galvanizing component of islamic faith and repetition and ritualism are its sustaining components.
    This makes it very difficult to comprehend why a free person in the Western world would convert to such a vile and evil religion voluntarily, but we already know that Gerbiltea did it for love and now he has no choice but to defend his new religion.

  58. says

    The last is forever, to be embraced by all who wish all of mankind well without threats for not doing this, that and the other thing that some ideologies demand or else.

    Well said, Wellington.
    I believe that this “third” Christmas is the condition which is naturally, (or for some of us divinely), built into the human soul. It takes savage violence of an evil ideology or profoundly wicked religion to erase it and produce a horribly maimed human being. We must resist Islam for the same reason we resist Communism and Nazism, namely because its victory would end mankind’s journey toward fulfilling its destiny.

    I don’t know if I am optimistic. I have no doubt that in the long run the monster called Islam must implode and disintegrate. The question is; will it happen as the result of our repulsing its invasion, isolating and starving the parasite, or because after it had devoured us it will have to devour itself before it dies of starvation.

    Let’s do everything for the former prospect to happen. It is not a matter of “can we”, but “dare we”. If we dare it will, in the retrospective, appear perfectly moral and therefore much simpler than feared. If we don’t, we will have to live with shame of our betrayal of not only our civilization, but our human nature.

    I wish you and yours, and all of us, all the best.

  59. says

    I share your long term optimism, Thomas_h, that Islam is on the wrong side of history and man’s destiny but a more inexorable foe of liberty has rarely, if ever, existed than Islam and thus it’s going to take a lot of time and suffering before mankind sees the end of it.

    Wishing you and yours the best. Take care, my friend.