Here again Obama speaks about what the U.S. has done and must do to overcome the Islamic world's mistrust. He doesn't say anything about Muslims working to eradicate the jihad doctrine and Islamic supremacism, and thus helping overcome American mistrust of the Islamic world. In Obama's world, the conflict between the West and the Islamic world is all America's fault -- and Israel's, of course. "Obama in Indonesia: Much work needed on Muslim ties," from the BBC, November 9 (thanks to Twostellas):
President Barack Obama has admitted the US must do "a lot more work" to improve ties with the Muslim world, as he continues an Asian tour in Indonesia.Mr Obama said his efforts had been "sustained" but accepted "mistrust" remained in the Islamic world.
He said the US would expand co-operation on economic issues, security and climate change with Indonesia, the world's most populous Muslim nation....
In a wide-ranging news conference with President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono, Mr Obama said he had worked hard to repair ties with Muslim communities.
"I think that our efforts have been earnest and sustained. We don't expect that we are going to completely eliminate some of the misunderstandings and mistrust that have developed over a long period of time, but we do think that we're on the right path." [...]
Mr Obama said the US had reached out to Muslims on areas such as education and business to "build trust" and "create more people-to-people contact".
But he added: "I think it's an incomplete project. We've got a lot more work to do."
The US president also criticised Israel's plan to build apartments for Jewish settlers in disputed East Jerusalem.
"This kind of activity is never helpful when it comes to peace negotiations," he said....
How about the islamic world does something to reduce the mistrust in the world instead.
Why is it that Israel is exempt from any and all criticism? As an American and an atheist, I really don't understand our blind loyalty to Israel. While I support the right of the state to exist, I'm also sensitive to the plight of the Palestinian people who are stuck between the Israeli military and groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad.
What upsets me though is how difficult it is to criticize Israeli policy without being labeled anti-semitic. It's the religious equivalent of the race card which is too often played when un-called for.
It's even worse here on JW sometimes because some of you are so ultra-religious that you label anyone who doesn't support Israel as a "secret-Muslim." It's childish. Ultimately, the more some people keep treating Israel as this perfect nation with perfect people that can do no wrong, the more your argument loses steam with secular guys like me who base right and wrong off morality and not some religious backing.
On the 1/2 hour BBC world news TV show today they repeat the same mantra about Obama working to "win over the hearts and minds of the Islamic world". It's stupifying how delusional this all is. Madness. Hey, gang! Let's go win over the Nazis! Let's go win over the Communists! Let's go win over the Borg!
And where are all the peaceful overtures in kind that should be coming from the Islamic World Mr. Obama?
Please show us all the peacemaking overtures towards America and the Western World coming from Islamic Countries?
I for one am so tired of this apologetic appeasing President towards Islamic Countries who refuse to do the same.
I, as an agnostic, think that that idea of any religious state is ridiculous. However, Israel is the only modern civilized country in the middle east and it really only wants to be left alone. That is impossible. I offer no direct financial support, but don't object to government level support. It's the civilized thing to do.
Israel needs to be criticized fairly and rebuked when appropriate by any nation. They get that and far more these days.
I suppose you might have a different outlook on Israel's actions, Channe, if you had rockets being lobbed at you every once in awhile, were forced to build a giant wall around your country to stop suicide bombers from trying to get in your house, and had two small standing armies on different sides, bankrolled by an Islamic regime bent on "wiping you off the map". I certainly would have definite ideas about how I would conduct myself and they would make Israel look quiet relaxed. But then, that's just me.
Abe - be honest, is Israel really a legit democracy? Do you honestly think if the majority of Israeli citizens became Muslim by birthrate and elected a Muslim leader that the powers-at-be would really accept it even though it would have been done under democratic means? Of course not! Israel today is really a quasi-theocratic state.
They even mandated pledging loyalty to it the supremacy of the Jewish faith for anyone wishing to be a citizen. Many on this site rightfully criticize Muslim nations for putting religion above ethics - and while Israel is still leaps and bounds ahead of nations like Saudi Arabia, it is still far behind America in other aspects.
I find it dificult to understand why many fail to understand that the so-called "Palestinians" never had a state named Palestine. It was Yasser Arafat himself who admitted that "Palestine" was a convenient fabrication to use as a weapon to fight the Kuffar state of Israel. The neighboring Muslim states have absolutely no interest in the plight of the refugees in their camps, except to keep them stirred up against the Israelis and using them as a tool to generate hostility towards the Jewish state.
The Muslim states all want Israel to be eliminated, since it occupies land which once was under the dominion of Islam, and there will be no peace agreement between Israel and the Palestinians, because the latter will not agree to any agreement which guarantees the security of Israel.
It would be helpful if Channe would educate himself on the texts and tenets of Islam; he thereby might change his mind about the existential threat of the Muslim nations to Israel's existence.
The following is a brief summary of the factual currently 90-year history of the situation.
In 1917, during World War I, Britain took from Germany-allied Turkey the area of land that was constituted by what is now Jordan, and by what is now Israel, and by what is now called The West Bank, and by what is now called The Gaza Strip.
Afterward, in 1917, some few British officials who were sympathetic to the Jewish people and who were sympathetic to the Jewish people who were engaged in the Jewish liberation and national self-determination movement - the Zionist movement - issued the Balfour Declaration, which declared that that area of land that was constituted by what is now Jordan, and by what is now Israel, and by what is now called The West Bank, and by what is now called The Gaza Strip was to be the Jewish National Home. The term Zionism is based on the word Zion, which is the English spelling and pronounciation of the Hebrew word Tsiyon (pronounced tseeyohn) which is the name of the hill on which the founding city, Jersusalem (Yerushalayim), of the founding country, Israel (Yisrael), of the Jewish (Yehoudi) people, sits and was built, by the Jewish people, approximately 3,000 years ago.
In 1919, in Paris, at the Paris Peace Conference of 1919, Emir Faisal ibn Husseini and Haim Weizmann signed the Faisal-Weizmann Agreement to establish one Arab state in, and one Jewish state in, the area of land that British officials subsequently, in 1920, named the British Mandate of Palestine, and which was an area of land that was constituted by what is now Jordan, and by what is now Israel, and by what is now called The West Bank, and by what is now called The Gaza Strip.
In 1922, British officials began to create, and, in 1924, British officials created, the Arab state Transjordan in the British Mandate of Palestine, in contravention to the Faisal-Weizmann Agreement, and officially excluded Transjordan from the terms of the Faisal-Weizmann agreement, in contravention to the Faisal-Weizmann Agreement.
In 1946, the British government granted autonomy to Transjordan and Transjordan was renamed Jordan.
In 1947, the then-newly-founded United Nations proposed the creation of one Arab state, consisting of a majority of the fertile land, in, and one Jewish state, consisting of a minority of the fertile land, in, the part of the British Mandate of Palestine that had not become Jordan. The Jewish leaders of the Jewish community in the British Mandate of Palestine accepted that proposal. The members of the Arab League, and the members of the Arab Higher Commitee, which, at that time, was headed by Amin al-Husseini, refused that proposal.
In 1948, the country of the Jewish people, Israel, was voted a country in the United Nations by a majority vote. Britain abstained from that vote.
In 1948, immediately after Israel was voted a country in the United Nations by a majority vote, the Arab League declared war on Israel and publicly explicitly announced that they were going to commit genocide against the Jewish people in Israel.
In 1948, several days after Israel was voted a country in the United Nations by a majority vote, the armies of five Arab countries, and the army of Britain, attacked Israel. The attack by those armies of those five Arab states was co-ordinated by Amin al-Husseini, as the head of the Arab Higher Committee.
In 1949, the army of Israel defeated those attacking armies of those five Arab states, and defeated the attacking army of Britain.
From 1949 until 1967, Jordan occupied what is now called The West Bank, and Egypt occupied what is now called The Gaza Strip.
In 1967, the armies of four Arab states, including the army of Egypt and the army of Jordan, assembled along the borders of Israel in preparation to attack Israel, and immediately afterward, the army of Israel attacked and defeated those armies of those five Arab states that were assembled along the borders of Israel in preparation to attack Israel, and the army of Israel took what is now called The West Bank from Jordan, and took what is now called The Gaza Strip from Egypt.
In 1967, after the army of Israel took what is now called The West Bank from Jordan and took what is now called The Gaza Strip from Egypt after the army of Israel attacked and defeated the armies of the four Arab states that were gathered along the borders of Israel in preparation to attack Israel, Israel offered to give what is now called The West Bank to Jordan and offered to give what is called The Gaza Strip to Egypt in exchange for a permanent peace treaty with all of the Arab states in the Middle East, and that all of the Arab states in the Middle East refused that offer, and issued the infamous "three no's" - no peace with Israel, no recognition of Israel, no negotiations with Israel.
The following are basic facts about the the 'Palestinian movement'
The founder of the Palestinian movement was Amin al-Husseini. Amin al-Husseini was a member of the wealthy Arab aristocratic Husseini family, and was an early leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, and, from 1941 to 1945, resided in Germany and was an adjoined official of the Nazi (National Socialist) regime of Germany. Amin al-Hussieni was a confidant of Adolf Hitler, and was a colleague of Adolf Eichmann. Amin al-Husseini, with his colleague Adolf Eichmann, was the co-architect of the genocide of the Jewish people in Europe - the mass-murder of approximately six million Jewish men, women, and children - by the members of the Nazi regime of Germany, and by thousands of the millions of German and non-German supporters of the Nazi regime of Germany. During World War II, Amin al-Hussieni created Muslim Nazi S.S. divisions in the Balkans which mass-murdered approximately 200,000 Serbian people, and which mass-murdered approximately 40,000 Roma (Gypsy) people, and which mass-murdered approximately 20,000 Jewish people. From 1941 to 1945, from the most powerful shortwave radio station that existed at that time in Germany, Radio Zeesen, Amin al-Husseini broadcasted "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"-Jewish-conspiracy-theory-based, authoritative-original-Islam-based, genocidally anti-Jewish, and anti-American, anti-British, anti-Western, anti-democracy, pro-Nazi, Islamically-themed, radio programs in Arabic, Turkish, and Farsi, the Persian language, to all of the countries in the Middle East. Those radio programs became popular in Muslim countries in the Middle East and were radio programs to which Ruhollah Khomeini, the then-future founder of the Shia branch of the modern Islamic Supremacist political movement, was, as a young man in Iran, a dedicated, regular, listener. Amin al-Husseini, as the head of the Arab Higher Committee, co-ordinated the 1948 Muslim Arab attack on the country of the Jewish people, Israel, by the armies of five Arab countries, launched several days after Israel was voted a country in the United Nations by a majority vote. Amin al-Husseini was the mentor of, and an uncle of, Egyptian-born Yasser Arafat (Mohammed Yasser Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini). The Palestinian movement is the central, propagandically strategically pivotal, part of the modern Islamic Supremacist political movement. The modern Islamic Supremacist political movement began in the 1920's and is a genocidally anti-Jewish political movement whose ideology is based on the authoritative original form of Islam - which is a genocidally anti-Jewish, supremacist, totalitarian, world-conquest-seeking religious political ideology and system of government - and on the Jewish-conspiracy-theory-propagating European anti-Jewish hate-inciting fictional propaganda book "The Elders of the Protocols of Zion". The modern Islamic-Supremacist political movement was officially founded with the founding of the Sunni Muslim Islamic-Supremacist political organization, the Muslim Brotherhood. The Muslim Brotherhood was founded in 1928, in Egypt, by Hassan al-Banna. The political organizations of the Palestinian movement are Fatah-PLO-PalestinianAuthority and Hamas. Fatah was founded in 1954 by Yasser Arafat, under the guidance of Amin al-Husseini. The PLO was founded in 1964, in Egypt, by then-President of Soviet-supported Egypt, Gamal Abdel Nasser, with members of the Soviet KGB. In 1969, Yasser Arafat, as the head of Fatah, took the position of head of the PLO. Hamas was created in 1988. Hamas was created as, and is, an official arm of the Muslim Brotherhood. In 1995, Fatah-PLO was renamed The Palestinian Authority and became, and currently is, the government of what is now called The West Bank. In 2006, Hamas became, and currently is, the government of what is now called The Gaza Strip. Fatah-PLO-PalestinianAuthority and Hamas are in a war with each other for the position of leadership of the Palestinian movement. The official goal of both Fatah-PLO-PalestinianAuthority and Hamas, which is officially stated, in Arabic, in the PLO Charter (both the PLO Charter of 1964 and the revised, currently official, PLO Charter of 1968) and in the Hamas Charter, is the destruction of the country of the Jewish people, Israel, by any means necessary. The members of Fatah-PLO-PalestinianAuthority and the members of Hamas use mass-murderous violence (between the years 2000 and 2006, Fatah-PLO-PalestinianAuthority and Hamas targeted to be murdered, and murdered, with over one hundred bomb attacks in buses, cafes, restaurants, and other social gathering places, over one thousand Israeli Jewish people - men, women, and children - in Israel) as a strategic tactic, and consciously use deceit as a strategic tactic, in their effort to destroy Israel. In August 2010, at the PLO Convention of 2010, Mahmoud Abbas and Fatah-PLO-PalestinianAuthority officially reaffirmed the PLO Charter of 1968.
The following are basic facts about Israel
Israel (Yisrael) is the country of the Jewish (Yehoudi) people. The official languages of Israel are Hebrew (Ivrit (pronounced eevreet)), which is the language of the Jewish people, and Arabic. The population of Israel - citizenry of Israel - is approximately 7.5 million people. There are approximately 6 million Jewish citizens of Israel. There are approximately 1.5 million Arab citizens of Israel (who, unlike the Arab people who are now called called the 'Palestinians', are citizens of Israel). The descendants of, and the still living members of, the 800,000 to 1,000,000 Jewish refugees from Muslim Arab countries and Iran constitute over fifty percent of the Jewish population - Jewish citizenry - of Israel. The 800,000 to 1,000,000 Jewish refugees from Muslim Arab countries and Iran, whose still living members, and whose descendants, constitute over fifty percent of the Jewish population of Israel, were forced to flee for their lives from those Muslim Arab countries and Iran soon before, and during, and after, the 1948 Muslim Arab attack on the country of the Jewish people, Israel, by the armies of five Arab countries, launched several days after Israel was voted a country in the then-newly-founded United Nations by a majority vote. The still living members of, and the descendants of, the Jewish refugees from Muslim Arab countries and Iran refer to themselves as Mizrahi (which literally means "Eastern" in Hebrew). Jewish people whose ethnicity is Jewish-West-European and Jewish people whose ethnicity is Jewish-East-European (and who refer to themselves as Ashkenzi (which literally means "German" in Hebrew), and Jewish people whose ethnicity is Jewish-Mediterranean-European (and who refer to themselves as Sephardi (which literally means "Spanish" in Hebrew), constitute the rest of the Jewish population of Israel. The still living members of, and the descendants of, the Arab people who did not follow the instructions to flee Israel that were given by Arab leaders immediately before the 1948 Muslim Arab attack on Israel, and who did not flee Israel before the 1948 Muslim Arab attack on Israel, and who were not expelled from Israel during the 1948 Muslim Arab attack on Israel, constitute the Arab population - Arab citizenry - of Israel - who constitute approximately 20 percent of the population - the citizenry - of Israel. Approximately 80 percent of the Arab citizenry of Israel are Muslim. Approximately 20 percent of the Arab citizenry of Israel are, in some cases, Druze, and, in other cases, Christian. All citizens of Israel have equal rights and full protection under the law in Israel. The still living members of, and the several million descendants of, the 600,000 to 700,000 Arab refugees from the 1948 Muslim Arab attack on Israel who, in most cases, fled from Israel immediately before the 1948 Muslim attack on Israel, and who, in some few cases, were expelled from Israel during the 1948 Muslim Arab attack on Israel, and whose still living members, and whose several million descendants, have, in most cases, been kept in refugee camps in Muslim Arab countries for over 60 years by the members of the regimes of those Muslim Arab countries, and who, in other cases, are Arab people who live in what is now called 'The West Bank', which is currently governed by Fatah-PLO-PalestinianAuthority, and in what is now called 'The Gaza Strip', which is currently governed by Hamas, are now called the 'Palestinians', and are not citizens of Israel. Israel provides the water and electricity of the 'Palestinian' Arab residents of what is now called The West Bank and of what is now called the Gaza Strip. Israel provides and sends tens of tons of food and medical equipment every week to the 'Palestinian' Arab residents of what is now called The Gaza Strip. Israeli doctors treat 'Palestinian' Arab people in hospitals in Israel. Israel is approximately the size of New Hampshire. The land area of Israel is less than one percent of the total land area of the whole Middle East. Israel is a free democratic country. The society of Israel is a free open society. Israel provides more intellectual academics resources, and more advances in life-saving medical technology, and more advances in quality-of-life-enhancing medical technology, and more advances in earth-saving, environment-saving, technology, and more high-tech information technology, to the world than does any other country on the world.
The following is some information about me
My ethnic background - my ethnicity - is Jewish (Jewish-Russian(Ukrainian)-Polish).
The existential view that I hold, and the existential practice that I strive to follow, is Theravada Buddhism.
The political views that I hold are a balance between Classical Liberalism (Jeffersonian Liberalism) and Social Liberalism (modern Liberalism).
The following is a link to my YouTube channel, in which I present the reality of Israeli life and culture and the reality of the 'Palestinian movement'.
http://www.youtube.com/user/danielbielak
Obama in Indonesia slams Israel...
Uh, is this like the part where he went before a favorable crowd and slammed nationalism and capitalism?
... says more work is needed to...
And this bears the redolence of the Annointed One begging forbering the little people from their stupid complaints about how his disastrous economic recovery plan should be abandoned and a new approach taken.
Prez Hussein is a profoundly dangerous man. His fiction-based speeches there can only enhance recruitment of Young Moslem Men into the global jihad started in the mid-90s.
Would someone please tell this Ivy League Moron that kissing Moslem ass only invites trouble, and that it in no way helps avert it.
I assume that Indonesians followed the recent American midterm elections. Obama is quite likely a one term president, so they might want to think carefully about whether they want to place much stock in what this man says. Americans are wising up to, and growing weary of, his consistently pursued program of apologia toward the Muslim world. Obama's sentimental views of Islam retained from his childhood in Indonesia do not provide a rational foundation for American foreign policy toward Muslim countries, especially since it does not reflect the support of the American electorate.
In two years Obama will be retired to shoot hoops, so Indonesians would do better to start investigating who among the up and coming crop of future American leaders they want to invest in.
"I'm also sensitive to the plight of the Palestinian people ...." Channe | November 9, 2010 9:54 AM |
To add to what EuskalHerria said in his/her post, I would like you (Channe) to answer a few questions about the so-called Palestinian people.
When was Palestine founded, and by whom?
What was its currency/ currencies?
Name some of its Kings/Queens/rulers for the last few hundred years.
What was the name of its capital city?
Were there any historical/commercial/ treaties made with other countries/states to prove its existence.
What religion(s) were practised there?
What uniquely identifiable Palestinian literature and art did it produce?
What were the historical reasons for its demise?
If you can answer even one of these questions, I'll be very surprised. Why? There never has been a state called Palestine. It has never existed! You've been made to look a fool along with the rest of the liberal left circus who've swallowed this lie whole without question.
You're a clown!
How much more of this nonsense will we have to bear until it's time to sing "na na na na, na na na na, Hussein-ein, goodbye" in DC in January 2013?
It's even worse here on JW sometimes because some of you are so ultra-religious that you label anyone who doesn't support Israel as a "secret-Muslim." It's childish. Ultimately, the more some people keep treating Israel as this perfect nation with perfect people that can do no wrong, the more your argument loses steam with secular guys like me who base right and wrong off morality and not some religious backing.
Very simply, without 'moralizing' pro or con, the fact is Israel is a "victim" status state under attack by the whole Muslim world, especially its Arab neighbors. We who support this Jewish/secular democratic state are in support of its survival from the much advertised "genocide" of the Jews commanded in Koranic scriptures, and the likes of Iran mullahs, Muslim clerics, or other 'scholars' of Islam. This is simply a survival issue of the underdog state from being genocidally overwhelmed by all its hostile, anti-semitic, undemocratic, tyrannical Islamic neighbors. You have a problem with that?
How much more of this nonsense will we have to bear until it's time to sing "na na na na, na na na na, Hussein-ein, goodbye" in DC in January 2013?
With no reference to history, Obama and much of the MSM seem to be trying to present some sort of utopian Indonesian Islamic 'democracy'; so there is no mention of the Islamic jihad bombings of Bali (2002, and 2005), and no mention of Indonesia'a Islamic jihad supporting organisations:
Jemaah Islamiyah, and Hizb ut-Tahrir.
(For a further reality check, there is, of course, the additional 'Jihadwatch' archive on Indonesia):
http://www.jihadwatch.org/cgi-sys/cgiwrap/br0nc0s/managed-mt/mt-search.cgi?search=indonesia&IncludeBlogs=1&limit=20
Anti-Jewish bigotry - antipathetic wrong views that are held about, and antipathy that is felt toward, the Jewish people - is a normal, normative, culturally engrained part of the culture of culturally Christian-European - CHristian and post-Christian - societies.
Almost all Jewish people experience, to varying degrees, as a coping mechanism, a deep profound form of Stockholm Syndrome.
This Stockholm Syndrome causes almost all Jewish people to be unable to effectively verbally defend the Jewish people from lies that vilify the Jewish people.
This Stockholm Syndrome causes some Jewish people to be fervent propagators of, and the most influential propagators of, lies that vilify the Jewish people, which, in this era, are manifest as lies that vilify the country of the Jewish people.
The members, both Jewish and non-Jewish, of the news media of Western countries are, by lying by ommission, and by lying blatantly, indoctrinating the world with lies that vilify the country of the Jewish people, Israel, and that obfuscate the nature of, the history of, the scope of, and even the existence of, the modern Islamic-Supremacist political movement, of which the 'Palestinian movement'is the central, and propagandically stratetic part.
Western Anti-Jewish bigotry is the factor that is causing the members of the governments of Western countries and the members of the Western news media and the members of Western societies to currently be allowing the genocially anti-Jewish modern Islamic-Surepamcist political movement to be arising and is what is allowing the genocially anti-Jewish Islamic-Supremacist current regime of Iran to be building nuclear weapons.
Anti-Jewish bigotry is now, and has for millenia, been the most effective, and the most harmful and detrimental, political tool that there has ever existed in human history.
Anti-Jewish bigotry, unlike all other forms of bigotry, views and presents the people who are the object of the bigotry as not being intellectually inferior nor as being merely physically unattractive but as being inherently evil and deceitful, and as not being individual human beings but an abstract collective, and as being weak and pathertic as individuals, and as being all-powerful behind-the-scenes controllers of the world as a group. It is because of this that anti-Jewish bigotry is the most insidious form of bigotry that exists in the world.
What is happening now is what happened in the world in the 1930's and what happened in Europe in the Middle Ages. However what is happening now is much worse and much more horrific and much more dangerous.
In order to protect the Jewish people in Israel from genocide, and in order to protect the whole world from the totalitarian, supremacist, world-conquest seeking, overt-violent-action-employing, covert-non-violent-action-employing, modern Islamic-Supremacist movement, the members of free democratic Western societies and the members of the governments of free democratic Western societies need to become aware of the factual history and current reality of the situation, and need to, with skillful non-violent action, protect Israel from genocide, and protect the whole world from the modern Islamic-Supremacist political movement.
Democracies are not perfect, but they are the best form of government humanity has ever invented.
You are conveniently defining what it means to be a Jew so that it conveniently fits into your small-minded world view. Being Jewish is not just a religious identity. The theology of Judaism is just one part of the fabric that defines Jewish culture and civilization. Being a member of the Jewish People means that you are part of a civilization that has a distinct native language (Hebrew), with a distinct land where the civilization was cultivated (the land of Israel), with a distinct central urban city where the majority of important civilizational events happened (Yerushalayim), with a distinct calendar (Hebrew lunar months) and a distinct numbering system for years (now it's 5771). You can be a Jewish atheist and still be a member of the Jewish People. For 2000 years, Jews have been at the mercy of the majority cultures and civilizations around the world, and they were not always treated with the same justice that non-Jews received. Hitler came to power in a democracy. The Zionist movement rightly realized that the only way the Jewish People and her culture could survive was in a national home where the population had a majority of Jews and where a national army could protect the Jewish People from destruction. And that’s what Israel has succeeded in doing. Israel, like every other nation on the planet (including your beloved USA) prioritizes one culture and one heritage over all others. I would love to see how you would feel if Muslims became a majority in the USA and they decided that Arabic was to become the official language of the country, and that the years need to be numbered according to the departure of Mohammed from Mecca. Or if Hispanic Americans became a majority in the USA and decided that all government legislation needed to be debated in Spanish. English was brought over to the Western Hemisphere by the British – it was by no means native to the land which the USA governs right now.
Israel has a right to prioritize Hebrew and Jewish culture and history and civilization just like any other country. At least in Yerushalayim, the street signs are in Hebrew, Arabic and English. There are only 6 million people on the planet whose mother tongue is Hebrew now, as opposed to the hundreds of millions of Arabic and English speaking children. Jews have a right to protect their national language just like the Ukrainians, Arabs, British and French. Arabic is an official language of the UN – Hebrew is not. The BBC has its own Arabic language division – there is none in Hebrew. Whose culture is at more risk of disappearance? Whose culture is the target of the guns of Iran and Hizbullah?
And by the way, the day that your wonderful USA decides to stop putting up a Christmas tree on the White House front lawn, is the day you can tell Israel to stop prioritizing the celebration of Jewish festivals in its government institutions.
And the day the United States apologizes for building homes for Europeans on top of land supposedly owned by Native Americans, is the day that Obama can tell Israel where to approve the building of apartments by Jewish developers in Yerushalayim.
Daniel,
Thank you for this very informative post.
Ima
There was no Palestine or any Palestinian before the creation of Israel. Palestine is a counter-response to Israel. Not to mention that the means by which Israel was created is suspect as well. Who were the Brits to force the nomadic Muslims in modern day Israel to give up the land they have lived on for 1400 years?!
Channe - the name Palestina was used by the Romans since the day they destroyed the Jewish temple in Yerushalayim. It is derived from the Philistines who lived in the Gaza area at the time. There have been Muslim Palestinians as well as Jewish Palestinians as well as Christian Palestinians living in the are for over 1000 years. The Jewish newspaper The Jerusalem Post was once called the Palestine Post. It is the name given to residents of who are members of many cultures and civilizations and religions.
This business of the "suspect" nature of the establishment of the State of Israel once again reeks of typical anti-Semitism. Only Jews are accused of acquiring self-determination by "suspect" means. If you really wanted to be honest with yourself Channe, you would also ask how the Muslims of the Arabian Peninsula got the right to conquer the Land of Israel after Mohammed's death. Was it not suspect how they imposed Islam by force on the city that is most holy to the Jewish people? Was it not suspect how they went ahead and built a victory mosque on top of the Jewish People's holist place? Who were the Muslims to force the native Jewish population of the land of Israel to give up the land they had been living on for 1000 years before Mohammed was even born?
I have a shrewd suspicion that the 'Potus' is a closet muslim. The Rev. James David Manning claims that he also belongs in some other closet. I think it was a closet or maybe it was a walk-in wardrobe.
Anyway, there are no 'Palestinians'. Go question them.Axe where they was borned. They will proudly say,"Jordan,Egypt,Syria,Israel etc." They are almost all illegal immigrants.If they owned Isreal they would soon destroy it. It would quickly revert to a backward sandpit/cesspit whatever. They would be pissing down the well in no time.
Obummer's encouragement of these barbarians is quite, quite disgusting, but no surprise.
I expected some horrible things from Obama and he hasn't disappointed but I did not expect him to be a tool for islam, it's most outspoken apologist and supporter. It was disturbing enough to know that the American people elected a Marxist but I never dreamed he would devote his influence and our resources to trying to win the 'hearts and minds' of implacable savages who will hate us no matter what we do. I was once convinced that Obama is a self-worshipping narcissist with no religious/spiritual inclinations, an atheist, but I now think he could be a muslim. Whatever he is, he is the most anti-American, unconventional, embarrassment of a president this country has ever elected.
I am fed up with hearing that we have wronged the islamic world. To hell with the islamic world and everybody in it. We have done nothing but pour billions of dollars into that God-forsaken snake pit of poisonous vipers and what have we received in return? Hate, terrorism, threats, and an invasion of unassimilable savages who are working day and night to foist their barbaric culture and beliefs on us. I despise islam and I deeply resent my president's unnatural, obsessive interest in the welfare of my enemies.
Channe wrote:
"Abe - be honest, is Israel really a legit democracy? Do you honestly think if the majority of Israeli citizens became Muslim by birthrate and elected a Muslim leader that the powers-at-be would really accept it even though it would have been done under democratic means? Of course not!"
Based on every single example in history, and on current events, if Muslims became the majority of Israeli citizens, there would be no vote. The Muslims would do what they do in every other country: genecide. That's being honest about it.
Channe also wrote:
"They even mandated pledging loyalty to it the supremacy of the Jewish faith for anyone wishing to be a citizen. Many on this site rightfully criticize Muslim nations for putting religion above ethics - and while Israel is still leaps and bounds ahead of nations like Saudi Arabia, it is still far behind America in other aspects."
No, they just pledge that they recognize that Israel is a Jewish state. Hey, that was decided by democratic means. If you don't like it, don't move there as an immigrant. I wouldn't.
Also, why are you trying to compare Israel in saying that it's "far behind America"? By what yardstick are you measuring? Here you're critical of Israel and the handling of the "palestinians" and "taking land away from a nomadic people", and yet America slaughtered most of its nomadic people. You compare that favorably with Israel? Huh?
It's obvious that you haven't really studied history, and you don't have a real grasp on the issues beyond what you desperately want to be true. And that doesn't make it so.
The British didn't "force" any Muslims to give up land to Jews. That's a canard. Jews bought the land from the late nineteenth century onwards, and ordinarily at exorbitant prices, from Arab or Turkish landlords. Moreover, the Arabs for over five hundred years had done virtually nothing to establish their own independence from Ottoman rule. But for WWI and Allied defeat of the Ottomans, the Arabs wouldn't have gotten the nations they have, none of which guarantee to their populations all kinds of freedoms that Israeli Arabs enjoy.
Moreover, you know or should know that the Arab Muslim world has wanted no Israel at all and therein lies the real reason, the ultimate reason, why since 1948 there has not been true peace in the Middle East. Arab Muslims could have had their own state alongside Israel pursuant to the 1947 UN partition plan, but instead the Arabs wanted everything, their ordinary take on what compromise means. Those few intrepid Arabs like old King Abdullah of Jordan or Anwar Sadat of Egypt who were prepared to live in peace with Israel were murdered by their brethren who wanted no Israel at all. Really, you should try to become better informed before spouting off here at JW.
Don't tell me....next Obama will visit a Battered-Women shelter and tell them that they must do more to mitigate the mistrust they have caused in men which leads to creating the violence as a quasi self defense from a future harm of being alleged to be a misogynist.
5'500'000'000 non-Muslims can no longer be forced to live in fear of being murdered by Jihad from the Misunderstanders of the peaceful teachings of Muhammed.
Obama is making a very bigotted slur to Muslims by his subtle inference that Muslims are predisposed to riots and murders from the slightest offence as if islam creates a Mental Illness bent for slaughtering civilians as a favour to Allah.
In Canada we call it "The Racism of lower expectations" because Politicians and the MSM will quickly excuse-away the violence and crimes by Minorities or Muslims based on a root-cause. It rarely gets reported with the word MUSLIM at the front of the story,but when a bogus hate-crime is told to the media by CAIR is starts with the usual "Muslim victim" or "Anti-Muslim" racists vandalized Mosque.
BTW
Has anyone ever seen just 1 photo or Courtroom drawing of a Islamophobe arrested and convicted for vandalizing a Mosque????
I'm still waiting for CAIR-canada's report of the Conviction for the islamophobe that fire-bombed a Pickering Mosque back in 2005 when the only witness was the Mosque Custodian that just happened to have been there at 3:00am to smell the smoke but didn't hear the windows get smashed and doors kicked open by drunken Christians that were blamed for it just 3 days later with no evidence for the faith of the arsons.
Oddly enough, this Pickering Mosque tied to CAIR and Shariah law Whahhabi Muslims managed to by-pass the building codes with a new mosque about 3 times the size that was given the label of Islamic Cultural Centre .
Hmmmmmmm, can't get a permit to make the Mosque bigger so you torch it for the Insurance money and then put up a mega-version in the guise of a Cultural centre that just happens to have a huge room where people face Mekkah while kneeling on rugs and praising Allah.
Other than that.....it's not a Mosque because of the library and play room or educational video and conference room.
Off Topic.
It's an upside down world.
It is Israeli Occupation Week at Brandeis. The dispicable Chomsky speaks there tomorrow.
Contribute a comment or two to the many articles that will be found in the Brandeis Justice during this disgusting event.
http://www.thejustice.org/
Ima,
You are very welcome. I hope that what I have written will be helpful and beneficial.
To protect the country of the Jewish people, Israel, from genocide, and to protect the well-being of the whole world, the factual history and current reality of the situation needs to made known to the people who are the citizens of free democratic countries - most importantly, the people who are the citizens of the United States - the American people - and to the whole world, and most importantly, to the elected members of the governments of free democratic countries - most importantly, to the elected members of the government of the United States.
I was born in Mexico, and I grew up in, and I live in, and I am a citizen of, the United States of America. I love America. I now, have come come to deeply appreciate America. The society of the United States of America is a wonderful unique very good society. American society is the least bigoted society in the world (along with Israeli society - which, along with the society of the United States of America - is the least bigoted society in the world, and which, unlike every other country that exists in the world, has been under a racist intendedly genocidal siege since several decades before its founding). The system of government of the United States of America - the liberal democratic republic that is prescribed by, and that, for over two hundred years, until the present time, has adhered to, the Constitution of the United States of America - may be the most beneficial form of government that has existed in the world in recorded human history. I am quite aware of all of the flaws of the society of the the United States, and I am very aware of all of the flaws of the system of government of the United States, and I am quite aware of all of the flaws of the society of Israel, and I am quite aware of all of the flaws of the system of government of Israel.
However these flaws pale in comparison to the flaws of the societies and systems of government of every other country in the world. Every other country in the world.
Yes,exactly. Palestinian human rights were essentially ignored, in true imperial style, by the British, French and Zionists. It was assumed,with remarkable callousness, by those Western politicians deciding their future, that the Palestinians would 'disappear' from history,inconveniently, they have resolutely refused to do so.
Israel is simply the West's last colonial enterprise. The claim that Israel is an ally in some existential struggle against 'The Jihad' is self-serving propaganda,Israel is fighting its own war for its own purposes.
The standard response to criticism of Israel by its supporters is ad hominem attacks and acusations of 'anti-Semitism' and those same supporters often betray their own bigotry against Arabs.
I'd recommend Eugene Rogan's 'The Arabs', it contains a comprehensive summary of the entire squalid Zionist colonial enterprise.
"President Barack Obama has admitted the US must do "a lot more work" to improve ties with the Muslim world, as he continues an Asian tour in Indonesia."
WHY?
I'd say a little shunning is in order. Muslims have earned the "mistrust" of all civilized people. Next time there's an earthquake or other natural disaster in a Muslim country....call Riyadh.
Ivy League what have you done? What an executive you have given us.
Just as inexpert artisans, who construct large pedestals for petty offerings, make the smallness of the offerings noticeable, so Fortune, whenever she elevates a petty character by acts that have a certain pomp and circumstance, makes the more conspicuous and disgraceful the blundering and instability that result from a shallow character.
- Plutarch, Moralia
Mac,
Did you read all of what I wrote in all of my previous comments? If you did, either you have an impairment of reading comprehension, or you think that I am lying, or that I am deluded. I am not lying and I am not deluded. Everything that I wrote is true.
Anybody who thinks the Israeli- Palestinian conflict can be resolved diplomatically or through negotiations is absolutely delusional !!
Actually Mac, maybe Palestine is the Arabs' last colonial enterprise. Jews have been living in the area far longer than Arabic speaking Muslims, and it was the human rights of the Jewish residents of Palestine that were trampled by prejudiced Muslims who hate Jews. Jews legally bought any land they worked on, but many of their Muslim neighbours saw this as unjust since they were dhimmis and non-believers. Jewish refugees from European anti-Semitism did nothing wrong on their arrival in Palestine. They bought land and created farms and built towns and villages and cities that were not conquered by force like the Muslim crusades of the Middle Ages. These Jewish communities came under constant attack from Arab neighbours - with death and robbery as their goal. In 1948, the Jews agreed to share Palestine, but the Muslims could not stomache having Jews in power on any land that had previously been controlled by the Ottoman Muslim Turks.
Not one drop of blood would have been shed had Israel's neighbours agreed to share the small piece of territory called Palestine in 1948. They would not even accept what the Jews reluctantly accepted - international control of the holiest city in Jewish history: Yerushalayim.
The Jews of Palestine deserve to enjoy human rights too.
Israelis now know US Prez is not their friend. This guy goes to a Muslim country and bad mouths Israel just to earn a few brownie points from Muslims. That has to be an action of stabbing Israelis in the back.If now Muslim countries around Israel decide to attack her, what would US do - that is a 64,000 dollar question!!! I wonder what those US Jews who helped elect him to the throne are thinking now.
Another question why our Prez goes there and admits US has to do a lot more to earn Muslim trust. He must be dreaming - Muslims don't trust kuffars nor should we trust them!!!
Daniel
good summary, mate.
Just in case you haven't come across them, here are some extra things you may like.
A brilliant Dry Bones cartoon.
http://drybonesblog.blogspot.com/2010/05/by-popular-request.html
And to go with it, in the comments thread attached to *this* article
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/05/us-backs-resolution-to-disarm-israel.html
look for the comment by Spencer's friend 'Hugh Fitzgerald', dated May 31 2010 12:22 pm, which begins thus - "Look, the whole thing is very simple."
Then there is this:
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=3CEC078B-97FB-40F6-9617-8447061C0998
'We Are Not Anti-Semites' - By Steven Plaut.
For sheer withering irony it is unmatched and unmatchable. It sums up the likes of 'Channe' and 'Mac' to a 'T'.
To go with it, here is Larry Miller, on November 26 2002 -
http://www.jr.co.il/articles/politics/mideast.txt
And then there is this, which puts the whole thing in a nutshell.
http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/06/why_islam_will_never_accept_th.html
'Why Islam Will Never Accept the State of Israel'.
And the discussion here may amuse you:
http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/20109
'Channe' and 'Mac' are either Mohammedans in masks, or if not Mohammedan, then they are fellow-travellers of the Mohammedans, a cheer squad eagerly aiding and abetting the Jihad against the Jews, which they try very hard (but in vain) to pretend is not really Jihad and is somehow different from, or separate from, the global Jihad. But I have read every damn posting they've both ever made since they first turned up here, and the shape of their thought and the depths of their hatred of the Jews and of the Jewish state is perfectly clear.
It is no use attempting to argue with them directly; on the subject of Israel and the Jooz, and the supposed cosmic wickedness of the 'Zionists', their minds are implacably made up. Hugh Fitzgerald has described antisemitism as a pathological condition - a sickness of the mind, or of the soul - and I think he is right.
All one can do is try to make sure that posters like 'Mac' and 'Channe' are not able to confuse and deceive new visitors to this site.
I realize that what I wrote in my last main comment - about the society of, and the governemnt of the United States, and the society of Israel and the government of ISrael, being the most beneficial societies and governemtns in the world was not beneficial (was of a feather-ruffling nature; would unbeneficially offend people), and I, even while writing it did realize that, I immediately after posting that comment realized that and I regretted having posted that. I apologize. But, forgive me.
Please consider the unbenefical nature of the anti-Israel and anti-America bigotry that is currently prevalent in the world.
To provide more information about where I am coming from,
I was opposed to the U.S. invasion of Iraq and was horrified by the U.S. media pro-U.S.-invasion mindless conformist propaganda in the early 2000.
I used to consider myself politically "Liberal" - I used to take for granted that is was politically "Liberal".
I am opposed to destruction of the natural environment of the world.
I am opposed to the harming of the natural environment and the harming of people, especially the most vulneralbe people in the world, by the harmful wrong actions by corporations (which are harmful wrong actions that are driven by greed) by corporations.
Right now, however, the most dangerous threat to the well-being of the whole world is the modern Islamic-Supremacaist political movement, and, most importantly, the current collusion - out of ignorance and, as part of that, anti-Jewish bigotry - with the modern Islamic-Supremacist political movement by the West, and especially, the members of the political Left, as a whole.
dumbledoresarmy,
Thank you. Thank you for your support and understanding. it means a lot to me.
"more work is needed "
He's right. More work IS needed. So far nothing has been done. Here's a start.
1 Ban Islam
2 Deport the Imams
3 Demolish the mosques
4 Confiscate all copies of the Koran and send them back to Mecca labelled as "not wanted,"
5 Give a one-way ticket out of the country to anyone who still wishes to practise Islam
6 Stop giving massive aid to Islamic regimes.
Too severe? Well then get ready for homegrown Armagedon.
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing."
And I would add not so good men also.
Carry on as you are then Hussein. Continue to do nothing and in the meantime you always Israel to blame.
Corrections:
"...in the early 2000's..."
"...I used to take for granted that I was politically 'Liberal'..."
"Jews have been living in the area far longer than Arabic speaking Muslims".
The statement is nonsense.
1. The fact that some Jews have been living in the area continuously is not a justification for the creation of Israel. There are many examples of ethnic/relgious minorities who have long histories in a particular region,however that's not an ethical justification for huge numbers of their co-religionists to invade and conquer.
2. The idea that the 'Arabic speaking Moslems' replaced an existing population is not supported by the facts,you are confusing culture and ethnicity. Many Palestinians are probably descendants of Neolithic populations.
Often invaders impose their culture on the conquered population and simply mix their genes with the original inhabitants.
Even if there were an ethno-religious argument(which there is not) to support Zionism your argument fails on those facts.
The Palestinians(and some Western officials) were not deceived as to the true nature of Zionism, they realized the sinister implications behind the phrase to "purchase all the land in Palestine". People have an inalienable right to resist invasion of their homelands--there were atrocities on both sides.
Jaladhi & Daniel,
Israelis also NOW know that Canada is their friend, and we, as Prime Minister Harper so eloquently said, will do everything it takes to ensure its continued existence.
"Not just because it is the right thing to do, but because history shows us, and the ideology of the anti-Israel mob tells us all too well, that those who threaten the existence of the Jewish people are in the longer term a threat to all of us."
Stephen Harper says he'll take a forceful stand against anti-Israel rhetoric no matter the political cost to his government at international organizations such as the United Nations and the Francophonie.
What a great day to be Canadian. I hope Stephen Harper strengthens our (Canada/Israel) ties, has joint military/intelligence sharing exercises, and -- rather than pouring $3-400 million dollars into 3rd world countries to combat global warming -- provides financial assistance as well, instead of to corrupt Islamic countries like Afghanistan and Pakistan.
Daniel,
What you wrote is very helpful, and adds to my arsenal of information that I will need in the future to combat the ever-increasing demands of Muslims and their fallacious arguments.
Ima
Mac,
You believe lies.
I understand why. You view it as being the case that Jewish people are not actually human beings who deserve to be treated with normal human decency which, you view it as being the case that, all other people deserve to be treated with.
May you become aware of the facts of history and the reality of the current situation, and may you be decent.
Channe writes:
"Ultimately, the more some people keep treating Israel as this perfect nation with perfect people that can do no wrong, the more your argument loses steam with secular guys like me who base right and wrong off morality and not some religious backing."
Muslim morality is seriously endowed with the religious backing as spelled out in the religious texts of the religion of Islam...everything the Muslims do is outlined in their religious texts on just how to do it to whom to do it to...and these religious instructions are amply and constantly drilled into the heads of pious Muslims by the pious Muslim clerics in the mosques and elswehere. Muslims kill people and then praise Allah for making their success possible..Muslims pray to Allah for success in death before killing people....they prove it everyday...
Yes,I read your comments,they are a typical example of the chauvinistic double standards and special pleading resorted to by supporters of Israel.
Israel is about as much value to the democaracies as an ally against the Islamofacists as apartheid South Africa was against Communism.
"Everthing that I wrote is true"-you're the answer to Volatire's prayers.
In complete agreement with you dda. Channe and Mac are indeed either Muslims or very deferential dhimmis. Either way they've distorted the truth and that is wrong. Particularly ludicrous and desperate is Mac's contention that the so-called "Palestinians are probably descendants of Neolithic populations." Wow, where do you begin, eh? Is there no end to the limits some will go to to discredit Israel? Nope, guess not. Hope you're well, dda.
Yes,I read your comments,they are a typical example of the chauvinistic arguments and double standards resorted to by supporters of Israel.
Israel is about as much value to the democracies in the struggle against Islamofacism as apartheid South Africa was against Communism.
"Everything that I wrote is true"---you're the answer to Voltaire's prayers.
mac wrote,
"...apartheid South Africa..."
...A regime of which the non-ethnically-African South-African majority of the opposition was Jewish and which was a regime that Richard Goldstone, one of the Theobald of Cambridges of this era, was a prosecutor for.
Mac,
You have no shame and you have no decency.
Mac,
You are revolting. You are egomaniacal, and sanctimoneous and deranged. You believe lies that vilify the Jewish people, who are a besieged people, and you exert effort to verbally attack the Jewish people, and you believe yourself to be an arbitor of human virtue. You pretend to yourself that you are defending the weak against the strong, when, in fact, you are joining with those who are strong, and malicious, and the majority, to attack the those who are being attacked and who are besieged.
Can you present anything other than ad hominem attacks and strawman arguments? Where is your justification for claiming the moral high ground?
People are increasingly seeing Israel for what it is, a predator,the oppressed are now the oppressors.
Salaam
"Mr Obama said the US had reached out to Muslims on areas such as education and business to "build trust" and "create more people-to-people contact".
Build trust? With these paranoids?
We need not coddle machete swingers who are commanded to fight for an Islamic earth, Barry.
ZerObama is a disgrace.
Mac,
If you are not culturally Christian European and are Muslim, and have, therein, grown up in a culture in which you have been completely indoctrinated with lies that vilify Israel and the Jewish people, and in which you have not had any exposure to the actual history and experiences of the Jewish people, then I forgive you.
I apologize for losing my temper. It is difficult to be a character in a Kafka novel.
Hey guys
Don't feed the trolls -- it's a waste of energy. These folk can't think nor do they have integrity
Re trolls: Their egos seek reaction so they can get 'juice' out of writing the erroneous stuff they write. Best to just ignore them and let them run out of puff....
I respect your point, jewcat, it has merit, but sometimes trolls should be fed. Simply ALWAYS ignoring them disallows sharp formulation of counter-arguments to heinous or deeply ignorant ideas. On occasion, trolls need to be shown they have failed and failed utterly. Otherwise, they will be emboldened when the humbling of them is the correct path to pursue. I write this as a college teacher of some three decades who has not been able (nor should I have been able) to disregard really dumb ideas put forward by students. Bad ideas need to be answered by good ideas, not all of the time, perhaps, but at least some of the time.
when you see islam just think of them as present day mayans /aztecs, they love blood sacrifices and will not slow down till they are put out of their misery, even their own clerics says there is no fun in islam!
"...People are increasingly seeing Israel for what it is, a predator,the oppressed are now the oppressors".
You mean the muslims who've killed over 270 millions of people across 1/3 of the world aren't the oppressors? You mean the 'arabs' who occupied a portion of arabia, marching across as 'crusaders' across africa, into europe, into persia, into asia, into the pelopanneseans, weren't 'oppressors'. You mean the muslims who've 'jihaded' some 16,300 attacks across some 35 nations since 9/11, aren't the oppressors? You mean they who theologically demand 'submission', or subservience, from all other 'faiths' and who's 'prophet' said that dying for allah is the highest service, aren't 'oppressors'?
That's it's Israel?
You see that's why there are no muslim 'freedoms' only tyranny and oppression. Only
the horror of mumbai- where those fine young 'martyrs' of Israel went into a synogogue to rip open the belly of an 8 month pregnant jewish lady and cut off the testicles of her religious rabbi husband. Because Islam is so 'salamm'
And that's why not one march took place by any of the so-called moderate muslims, after that horror two years ago in India where 174 were slaughtered like animals, and 350 plus were brutally injured by the 'salaam' of Islam.
Israel is the victim.... happy taquiya to you.
The next argument that Mac will try is that the Palestinians are the only people on earth who are truly autochthonous. If anyone cares to look, there is some interesting speculation about the origins of the Palestinians in The End of the Bronze Age: Changes in Warfare and the Catastrophe CA. 1200 by Robert Drews.
What Drews writes in his book is tangential to the discussion here because the Palestinians described in chapter four, Migrations, were not Arab. Even if the ancient people were the same as the current Palestinians, the fact would be irrelevant, because the “Palestinians” now could have a state if they would behave - but they cannot. It is as simple as that.
Yes,I agree, in principle. However, on this site, for most people who post comments here, "Troll" apparently means "dissenter".
Thanks for the reference, classicus. You know, I am quite skeptical about the legitimacy of using the term "Palestinian" at all as a descriptive that accurately classifies human beings who have inhabited Israel and environs over literally thousands of years. Might as well use the term "Cornwallians" or "Pennsylvanians" when talking about any people over the course of many millennia who have lived in what is now the extreme southwest of England or a major Mid-Atlantic state in the US.
Agree wholeheartedly, by the way, with your assessment that so-called Palestinians could have their own country (hell, could have had it some sixty years ago) if only they could behave, which they've shown no aptitude for. I don't blame Israel one bit for all the precautions it has taken. After all, no nation should be so concerned with the fate of others that it commits national suicide, and particularly with others who seek its annihilation.
The root cause of this folly is, of course, Islam. It remains to this day the perpetual child among world religions and deference towards it by non-Muslims needs to be non-existent, just as no sensible parent will defer to a child who refuses to grow up. Islam needs to grow up and, quite frankly, I don't think it ever will. Ah, what a problem, eh? A major faith which is immature and violence prone? Bad combination to be sure.
I think the issue is far too complex for average joes like me to judge on. I don't know the history of the country, and from the comment posted above, it's very complex and it would take me several hours to research all the claims and find sources. That being said, mac showed his true colours with his 'salam'. So subtle, yet so obvious. About channe I'm not sure, maybe like me he just doesn't have all the facts, but the accusation above that they must be muslim supporters or muslim themself confirms channe's complaint that they would be labeled such. Israel is not perfect, and sometimes it is right to criticize its actions. But not its right to exist, or its desire for security.
Sorry Dr. Wellington. The correct title of Robert Drews' book is: The End of the Bronze Age: Changes in Warfare and the Catastrophe CA 1200 B.C. Drews is a Professor of Classics and History (emeritus) at Vanderbilt. He is a careful scholar and never overstates evidence. His book will give no comfort those seeking justification for the Palestinian state upon the claim that Palestinians are "indigenous." He is a good clear writer. I also it like that he used the politically incorrect "B.C." in his title - like someone from the old school.
I'm not sure whom you are apologizing to,if it's me, it's not necessary and there's also no need to 'forgive' me, just don't make personal comments.
Actually, I'm cuturally what Americans call a 'WASP' and by choice, an atheist.
The correct term is 'Maya'.
Duly noted about Drews' tome. And yes, I use "B.C" and A.D" too, even though I am not a Christian. The "B.C.E." and "C.E." method of noting chronology smacks so much of PC/MC nonsense. And using the former chronological classifiction has the bonus feature of often annoying to hell and back the sticklers for the latter approach. Can't pass up that opportunity. No way.
You're attempting to conflate Israel's war against the Palestinians with resistance to Islamization. Fortunately the number of people who accept that propaganda line is steadily declining,apparently even the US government has seen through the lie.
I dunno. They want to destroy Israel and make it their own islamic nation, sounds like islamization to me.
What bugs me more is that often people here present it as a struggle between the christian god and demons or satan or something. I don't believe in god, satan, allah or demons, I see it only as a clash between civilization on one side and a totalitarian system on the other.
The US government has seen through the lie? Are you for real? You mean to tell me that President Obama is in any way sympathetic to those who resist Islamization? Good God, man, Obama is a constant apologist for Islam. Nauseatingly so.
And respecting your contention that Israel is making war against the Palestinians, you've got it ass backwards. So-called Palestinians (sick of this term by the way) overwhelmingly want NO Israel and they are supported by the vast bulk of the Arab and Muslim world. Whether cowered into this position (remember, far more Palestinian Arabs have been killed by their fellow Arabs than by Israelis; as the old joke goes, if you're a Palestinian and you hear a knock at your door at three in the morning, you hope it's the Israelis) or accepting it willingly, Israel is faced with the reality that most so-called Palestinians want no Israel whatsoever.
If the Arab Muslim world had just left Israel alone from 1948 onwards, Israel would have never attacked any Arab population. You know this or should know it. You blame Israel for nothing more than self-defense (actually, Israel's extraordinary efforts to limit civilian damage, even though Muslim radicals deliberately seek this, should win praise from all over the world---but, unfortunately, we live in a stupid, phony and hypocritcal world) . You exculpate Arab Muslims, even though overwhelmingly they would prefer no Israel at all. Address this point if you can. Meanwhile, your condemnation of Israel and your faux sympathy with folks who seek the utter annhilation of Israel falls on deaf ears for all those who can think clearly.
Mr Obama said the US had reached out to Muslims on areas such as education and business to "build trust".....
But, Mr. President, we are the ones expected to be doing all the 'building' and they are the ones sewing disharmony, destroying and killing.
Mac,
The American government, more precisely, the members of the State Department and the members of the CIA - and even more precisely - the members of the aristocratic governing class - the members of the ethnically West-European financier and industrial class - of the United States, and of Britain, and of Germany, and of France - have always been against Israel and have been engaged in an effort to destroy Israel since the founding of Israel.
In 1921, the British government appointed Jack Philby to the position of the most influential management position of the British Mandate of Palestine. Jack Philby (St. John Philby), also known by his Arabic name Sheik Abdullah, was a British Intelligence officer, a self-professed Socialist, and a fluent speaker of Arabic, who in 1930 converted to Islam, and who in the 1930's illegally provided, and illegally profited from providing, petroleum from Muslim Arab states to the Nazi (National Socialist) regime of Germany.
In the 1930's, the members of the industrialist and financier class of the United States (such as the father of George H. W. Bush) financed the Nazi regime of Germany.
Soon after World War II, Allen Dulles, the then head of the then-newly-founded Central Intelligence Agency of the United States (the CIA) - who was a friend and business partner of Jack Philby, and who, with Jack philby, during the 1930's, illegally profited from providing pertoleum from Muslim Arab states to the Nazi regime of Nazi Germany - recruited several thousand German former officials of the Nazi regime of Germany. Those German former Nazi officials formed the bulk and core of the founding membership of the CIA.
In the early 1950's, in Egypt, at the behest of Amin al-Husseini, German former Nazi officials who, at that time, were officials of the CIA, trained the army of Arab Nationalist Egyptian then-general Gamal abdel Nasser and trained Arab Nationalist terrorist commandos, including Egyptian-born Yasser Arafat, who was the prodigy of, and who was a nephew of Amin al-Husseini.
In the early 1980's, when Israel defeated, and almost completely militarily destroyed, the PLO, the CIA brought it back to life.
This is just "the tip of the iceberg".
Anti-Jewish bigotry, unfortunately, is the engine, the evil engine, of the Western world.
Correction:
I wrote,
which should be,
The leaders of Israel are, literally, deluded and imbecilic.
They could stop the modern Islamic-Supremacist political movement and completely change the world, for the better, by just telling the factual history and current reality of the situation. But they do not. They, who, in most cases, are ethnically Jewish-European, suffer from a deep profound form of Stockholm Syndrome, like almost all ethnically Jewish-European people, and they are also completely socially imperceptive.
You are way too harsh and also inaccurate. It's true that the State Department has had many "Arabists" in it who have taken a dim view of Israel, but it should be kept in mind above all that America has been Israel's closest thing to a friend since Harry Truman recognized it within hours of its coming into being.
Also, your contention that Senator Prescott Bush, grandfather and father of Presidents, was a financier of Nazi Germany is a deep, a profound, distortion of the truth. Prescott Bush had dealings with ONE German businessman who was a member of the Nazi Party and who later fell foul of it and was imprisoned. In the 1930s, after Hitler came to power in January of 1933, loads of American businessmen traded with Nazi Germany, just as many American businesses had trade relationships with the Soviet Union and the Eastern bloc during the Cold War (care to indict all of them?). To inculpate the Bushes here, to single them out, represents a bastardization of history, something I have fought against in my classrooms for decades. Reconsider if you are able. If you can't, then you will help prove the maxim that a little knowledge is a bad thing.
The government of the United States gives 3 billion dollars of financial aid per year to Israel.
The government of the United States gives a total of over 3 billion dollars of aid per year to Muslim Arab states.
The government of the United States gives 2 billion dollars of aid per year to Egypt alone.
The government of the United States gives more military aid to the Saud family Islamic regime of Saudi Arabia than the government of the United States gives to any other country in the world.
Wellington,
I take your point.
I am trying to communicate the fact that the foreign policy agencies of the United States have always been far from being well-intentioned benevolent benefactors of Israel.
And that is continuing now in this administration, but now it is more open.
I am not saying this to blame.
I am saying the following.
This is wrong, and it needs to change.
I wrote my answer before I saw your replies. One thing you said in your long post was: "Islam needs to grow up and, quite frankly, I don't think it ever will."
Because of the long infection of French Structuralism in our colleges and universities, I suppose that many would now say that your statement: "Islam needs to grow up," is Hegelian or essentialist, perhaps even reductionist. The worst charge might be that to regard Islam in your way is Orientalist. So what? It doesn't change the facts. The trouble is Islam. I think that Islam encourages very sloppy thought, and also effects a low tolerance for ambiguity and contingency which may be a mark of immaturity.
A few days ago, Mr. Spencer posted an article with video that featured Anjem Choudary saying that "Islam is superior and has the answer to every problem." Well isn't that something? Islam has solved the problems inherent in the human condition. Who would have thought it?
Well I'm not persuaded and never will be. Besides, just as Twain said of heaven if cigars were not allowed there, "If there are no guitars in Islam, I shall not go."
Thank you Wellington. It's good to read your words.
P.S. In a different thread you put President Bush and Winston Churchill in the same post. At sometime in the future, if it is germane to the topic, I would like to read what you have to say about the former President.
To Mac and those of like mind, I think your position is made unconvincing by the culture of the nations surrounding Israel. Television shows and interviews like the ones I link below show that the level of Arab dehumanization of Jews is frequently abysmal, frightful, and disgusting to any human sensibility that is not profoundly depraved. It would be very hard, if not impossible, to find within Israeli Jewish culture or television such utterly pathological and dehumanizing fare on the subject of Muslim Arabs. Yet such sicko fare is very common on Arab television. The profound pathology of much Muslim Arab and Palestinian culture, as exemplified in the TV clips below, shows where the main problem originates in the Middle East conflict, and why the Arab Muslims, in their bizarre extremism, refuse all compromise and present the threat of another holocaust. The origins of this extremism are in the life of Muhammad himself, and in the core Islamic texts. But now to the clips:
From the Islamic World: Television Clips about Jews
Note: the themes in the soap operas and their characterization of Jews from Muhammad's time are taken from the core Islamic texts.
Part I: A Jordanian-produced Soap Opera Demonizes the Jews
Part II: A Jordanian-produced Soap Opera Demonizes the Jews
Part III: A Jordanian-produced Soap Opera Demonizes the Jews
Jewish conspiracy soap opera set during Muhammad's lifetime
Saudi Arabian TV Asks People If They Would Shake Hands With a Jew
Saudi Arabian/UAE TV: Former Jordanian Minister and a Cleric Explain the Canonical Hadiths About Talking Trees and Stones Helping to Kill the Jews
Iran TV Clip: the Jews Kill People and Mix Their Blood with Matza; Syrian Author Says Israel Should Be Destroyed and the Holocaust Never Happened.
Lebanon TV Clip: Islamic Judge says: "The Only Religion The Jews Understand Is A Weapon or Rod On Their Heads."
The above clips are just a few examples from hundreds or even thousands of similar shows that could be reproduced here, thanks to the website Memri.
Laughable traeh, if the consequences were not so serious. Those Arab television shows are dreck and worse. Thanks for the post.
In the core Islamic texts, there is a great deal that drives the Arab world to reject compromise with Jews and Israel
For example, Muhammad says the earth belongs to Muhammad and Allah, warns the Jews to accept Islam if they wish to be safe, and tells them he wants to deport them:
In Sahih Muslim, a canonical hadith collection:
----------------------------------------------
More core Islamic texts that explain why the Muslim Arab world rejects Israel
From page 464 (690 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, Muhammad presides over the beheading of 600 to 900 Jews:
****************************************************
On page 369 (554 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, Muhammad says "kill any Jew who falls into your power":
It's a "beautiful" story of two brothers, Muhayyissa and Huwayyisa: (To avoid confusing the two brothers, keep in mind that the brother whose name begins with M is the Murderer in the story.)
*************************************
In core Islamic texts, Muhammad says that one day the very trees and stones will help Muslims to kill Jews.
He says it both in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, Islam's two most canonical hadith collections:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 791:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6981:Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6983:
Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6984:
Sahih Muslim Book 041, Number 6985:
There is much, much more.
OK, but when you aver things like, "Those German former Nazi officials formed the bulk and core of the founding membership of the CIA," you are engaging in the same kind of extreme arguments that you and I have criticized Mac and Channe for. Yes, the US employed some former Nazis in the early years of the Cold War because we had yet another war to fight to preserve democratic ideals and capitalism, but this has been so overblown as to become silly (the same can be said for trying to tie Prescott Bush to Nazism in a big way).
Look, here's my take. America is the greatest force for good in the modern world. And, specifically, it has been the American military over the past century which has functioned as the strongest guarantor of freedom in a world still deeply troubled by control-freaks who want it their way and no other, be they Islamic terrorists, Marxists, Nazis or your standard authoritarian pain in the ass. Just imagine the last hundred years with one difference---no American military. As dark as the world has been these past 100 years, it would be far darker now if the American military had not existed. Anyone who doesn't see this is a doofus or a tyrannical type. Also, the American government, while surely getting things wrong more times than it should have, has nonetheless been the staunchest ally of liberty throughout the world in our times. No great power in history has been so selfless as America. As Colin Powell (who still needs to understand Islam better than he does) once observed, America has liberated millions upon millions of people these past ten decades and the only territory it has asked for is enough ground to bury its soldiers in.
When you start accusing the Bush family of ties with Nazis and making the CIA into an organizational Darth Vader, you not only do America a great disservice but you feed the worst of the human species with raw meat. Hopefully you will grasp this. I mean no disrespect here but, for me, truth is paramount, even if it results in hurt feelings when it's conveyed.
classicus, you are welcome.
You know, if the demonic characters represented in those TV clips were not meant to represent an actual people (the Jews), and were purely fictional, the shows would be quite fun. Who doesn't like a really bad bad guy, a really terrible antagonist, in his fiction?
Daniel Bielak, thank you for your participation. I appreciated your admirably clear posts.
Question: you said the British army attacked Israel in 1948, along with the five Arab nations. My understanding was that Britain gave military aid to the Arab states; the British army did not itself attack Israel. But perhaps that's just an embarrassing lacuna in my knowledge...
Wellington,
You wrote,
"America is the greatest force for good in the modern world. And, specifically, it has been the American military over the past century which has functioned as the strongest guarantor of freedom in a world still deeply troubled by control-freaks who want it their way and no other, be they Islamic terrorists, Marxists, Nazis or your standard authoritarian pain in the ass.
"When you start accusing the Bush family of ties with Nazis and making the CIA into an organizational Darth Vader, you not only do America a great disservice but you feed the worst of the human species with raw meat.
"I mean no disrespect here but, for me, truth is paramount, even if it results in hurt feelings when it's conveyed."
Wellington, I agree.
However, there is now, just as there was in the 1930's, a very harmful, very widespread wrong view, that "The Evil Jews" / "The Zionists" (Israel) "control the United States" "for their own evil interests, to the detriment of the whole world".
It is important to dispel that very harmful wrong view.
And, please try to understand how I, who am Jewish, feel.
I appreciate your understanding and your civility.
When you start accusing the Bush family of ties with Nazis and making the CIA into an organizational Darth Vader, you not only do America a great disservice but you feed the worst of the human species with raw meat.
A very good reply, Wellington!
Mr. Bielak really needed to hear he is too reckless with facts and irresponsible with their interpretation.
Sir, if realists are in charge of a state they may understand the interests of the state in way at times inconsistent with personal morality. Read Machiavelli.
In spite of that, Israel has no better friend than the United States, even if you think that American ardor for Israel is somewhat deficient.
The United States gives Egypt money to keep the Egyptians from attacking Israel. The United States also gives Saudi Arabia billions of dollars for the defense of the kingdom to help keep Iran in check - and, before it was destroyed, to keep the Iraqi army at bay. And, even though the United States supports the Saudi kingdom, the efficacy of the Saudi military is dubious. As I have written before on these pages, US military officers I know, who are in a position to know, describe the Saudi military as, "janitors with guns."
You charge the United States with deep antisemitism, with trying to destroy Israel. While there is no question that individual Americans have had a demonstrable antipathy for Jews in the past, the United States could destroy Israel in a stroke, but never would and never will.
If you have a story to tell about the "real" workings of US foreign policy concerning Israel, please write it and go to book length if you can. I would certainly read it.
I am not Jewish, but I am one American who supports Israel and who does his best to vote accordingly.
traeh,
I have been feeling very guilty and uneasy since I wrote "everything I wrote is true" in one of my comments to Mac, because I think that there may be some minor errors (for example, there may be a few dates that are off by a year or two or so) in the list of facts that I presented.
I think that you are correct. It is my understanding that British troops fought alongside the Jordanian army against Israel, and I think that the British army, as a whole, did not fight against Israel
It is very difficult for me, because of the tsunami of lies about the situation that vilify Israel, which is currently under genocidal threat. I am under much stress.
I will be more careful in the future, about listing facts.
I understand very well Wellington's point.
It is very important to convey only exactly what is true.
Thank you for your reply, DB. I agree with you that vicious anti-Semitism, often disguised as "mere" anti-Zionism, is increasing and this certainly is troubling, but I am reassured by the fact that a large majority of the American people remain firmly pro-Israel (and this percentage will not diminish, I am convinced, because loads of Muslims keep making assholes out of themselves). As I have mentioned one or two times before here at JW, my own Italian-American Catholic plumber has a bumper sticker on the back of his work van which reads: "Fight Terrorism. Support Israel." And my next-door German-American neighbor has told me several times that he was largely indifferent to Israel before 9/11, but since that awful day he has become a total supporter of the Jewish state.
I sometimes wonder if Jewish folk ponder that they may have more friends than they ordinarily think they do. It's understandable that they might not, considering the horrid treatment Jews have experienced over the centuries, but in the American people as a whole, Jews have arguably their greatest ally in their very long history. I like to think they do and I do believe that I'm correct here. Long live Israel.
Wellington, I appreciated and learned from your responses to Daniel.
I, too, think Daniel was exaggerating a bit -- especially when he said that anti-Jewish bigotry is the engine that drives the Western world. There is a little truth in that. But the main truth is that the Western world is to large extent founded on Jewish culture, religion, and perceptions of the individual and of time itself. It's not a big exaggeration, is it, to say that the Jews, the Christians, the ancient Greeks, and the Romans, are the Western world. When the Western world is being Western, it is by that very fact affirming Judaism, though usually only unconsciously.
But even if I think he might be mistaken on some points, I appreciate Daniel's appearance here, and am inclined to be tolerant of liberal allies' opinions. It seems fair to say that Daniel is somewhat liberal, but he's an ally. We need liberal allies in the resistance to Islamic supremacism; we are lopsidedly conservative. The enemy wants conservatives and liberals to be divided, so we can all very slowly and gradually be subjugated under an Islamic ethos and Islamic law culture creeping in by means of demographic increase and by means of financial, propagandistic, stealth, and other forms of jihad. (Notice what has been happening in Dearborn.) The hatred between liberals and conservatives should be stopped, as I suppose you'll agree. We need to learn to speak more civilly, to disagree more gently and tolerantly. Socrates' dialogues are perhaps one good example to follow, where disagreement seems always to remain graceful and polite.
I appreciate the support of people who are not Jewish for Israel.
The situation that Israel is in, and that Jewish people hae always been in, is extremely difficult.
People who are Jewish have always been extremely supportive of the countries in which they have lived and have been members of, and have contributed much good to the world.
I hope that people who are not Jewish will understand the distress that I, and very many Jewish people are in, and that, if they truly support the Jewish people, they will not take personally what I say that they may initially feel to be offensive to themselves.
It is not my intention to blame and accuse.
It is my intention to make the situation better.
We are all here together.
The United States of America is the country in the world that is greatest force for good in the world. I deeply appreciate the United States of America.
But I have to admit, if someone attacks you first, and won't desist, and insists on ad hominem, sometimes there may be nothing for it but to fight fire with fire. But at least one should be slow to respond in kind, and slow to anger (Reagan once said America is slow to anger). And the best is of course to be able to devastate an insult-prone adversary not with counter-insults, but with facts, logic, references and footnotes.
You seem an honest man with a conscience. Thank you.
Just so traeh. I was lucky once, at my old school, when I signed up for a course in the poetry of John Milton. I was the only student interested and the only student to sign the register. Since the chairman of the English Department was a Milton scholar, he wouldn't hear of cancelling the offering, so I had a front row seat as the single student for that semester to read Milton and to hear lectures given in the professor's office. My professor explained, with a great deal of patience, the workings of that standard cliché that the most interesting character in Paradise Lost, is Satan.
Anti-Semitism was prominent in Europe when Milton dictated his great poem; but obviously, the Jews are not Satan, and Milton himself, read Hebrew - once considered by some to be the crown of a Western intellectual's education. (Greek, Latin, French and German were not enough - Hebrew was important too.)
But the Arabs have yet to learn this, if they ever will. The Jews would stand down if the Arabs and the Muslims would stop.
Still in all I could really do without that satanic cloud of Islam.
Much wisdom in what your wrote, traeh, respecting Daniel Bielak's appearance here. I also want to thank you again for your assiduous and detailed conveyance of passages from the hadiths, which overwhelmingly tend to demonstrate that Islam does not intend good things for those who disagree with it, something that should disturb all those who have a deep respect for and love of liberty.
Another addendum to my last comment: One should be slow to respond in kind, because sometimes, it is oneself who is to blame. For example, I had once sort of insulted someone in a Jihad Watch thread. A month or so later, that person came after me with an insulting attitude, but I had completely forgotten (and did not fully realize in the first place) that I had earlier insulted him! So I thought he was attacking me out of the blue. I did not realize until later on that I was the one who had started it! So it doesn't hurt to be slow to respond in kind to insults, since the log may be in one's own eye -- as it was in my eye.
classicus, Wow, private tutoring in Milton, that sounds good to me!
traeh,
Thank you for your kind wise gentle words. They are a support to me. Your kindness and understanding is a support to me.
Wellington,
Thank you very much for your reply. I appreciate very much what you wrote in your reply to me.
I did not see your reply to me until after I wrote my comment that I wrote which is posted after your reply to me is posted.
Wellington,
Let's clink metaphoric glasses on the love of liberty. I think it comes from the spiritual world. But that's another discussion. And the land of zzzzs is calling.
As to the hadiths, thank you for the appreciation. I have the feeling that with a little effort at clear and clearly referenced presentation, the core Islamic texts are very hard to deceive about. Especially when you include the hadiths and biography, because the Qur'an itself is relatively obscure. The hadiths and biography present Muhammad in clear narratives. And if you cite a few of those quotes together, the cumulative effect can be overwhelming and undeniable. All I do is put a heading at the top, make it as precise and accurate as possible, avoid exaggeration, and then let the texts speak for themselves.
The enemy seems to have two responses: 1) mostly, to panic, give up, and disappear into the woodwork, or 2) panic and answer ineffectively. What can you really say to something like this:
On page 222 (326 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, he affirms that those who do not follow him will be slaughtered.
And if someone does try to delegitimize or explain away a quote, I don't even argue. Instead I teach the someone a lesson by bringing out another quote, and another, also well referenced. They might try to pull the wool over our eyes on one quote. But it's pretty hopeless if you can then hit them with another horrifying and scandalous quote, well-referenced, and another, and another. The cumulative effect blows them right out of the water. So they just give up and run away with that red arrowhead tail between their legs.
"...since the log may be in one's own eye -- as it was in my eye."
Is that ever true! (Matthew 7:3-4) That little passage in Matthew is easy to read, but difficult to live. As a log-eyed man, I hope I didn't leave the impression that I was against Daniel Bielak, I am not. If you're reading this Mr. Bielak, know that I'm not against you or Israel.
And you re right traeh, we should be slow to respond in kind - (except, perhaps, when Islam encroaches, because Islam means nothing good - even when Muslims think that they are lighting the way with the "lamp of Islam.")
Thank you to classicus, Wellington, Daniel, and everyone else for a very engaging thread. And now, I'm for the land of nod...Good night.
traeh,
I also didn't see your comment about my comments until after I wrote the comment that appears before that comment of yours.
classicus,
Thank you. I very much appreciate your telling me that. I, too, can learn to, and need to, watch my own actions. I strive to do that. It is, as you say, very difficult.
Daniel Bielak,
"Anti-Jewish bigotry,unfortunately,is the engine, the evil engine of the Western world", what monumental conceit and prejudice that statement expresses. It's almost self-parody. Are the millions of citizens in the West and their political representatives all really animated by anti-semitism?
You definitely need to review what you write.
In Canada we have set a new low for the bar to measure Radio hosts and Journalism.
Many radio shows have alowed the Stealth Jihadists
to phone in and spew their lies to infer that Christians and Jews never existed in the ME before Islam and Muhammed.
So when I hear a Muslim rant about how land was "Stolen" from Palestinians it's about as stupid as islam trying to claim it invented water and we are all stealing it from muslims and we are "Occuoiers" when we go sailing or swim in a lake.
It wouldn't shock me if some wack-job Imam tried to say the Earth WAS flat and Islam moulded it into the sphere we see today.
BTW
As for the comment that Muslims and islam earned the Label of Mistrust, I agree.....and the onus is now on islam to reform and show the 5'500'000'000 peaceful non-Muslim on Earth that we don't live on a giant global prison with 1.2 billion other inmates having neither the will nor brains to weed-out the really violent ones among their cell-blocks.
People earn trust, and mercy is not strained but falleth from heaevn like a gentle rain. Unlike the rain of body parts and people that falleth from the WTC after 19 Muslims meted out Allah's mercy.
"America is the greatest force for good in the modern world", another monumental conceit. No,the US is far from a force for good. American 'interventions' have killed millions,supported dictators('sure he's an s.o.b.,but, he's our s.o.b.') and subverted democratically elected governments because they obstructed Washington's foreign policy aims. The USA is simply the least barbarous of history's long list of imperial powers.
Mac. Leave the US and go and live in Pakistan. Traitorous parasites like you are not wanted in the US or indeed anywhere in the infidel West. So off you go, misogynistic Bin Laden-loving scrounging troll.
classicus earlier asked me to provide documentation about what I wrote about the aspect of the situation that was, and is, the effort of groups (the leadership of agencies and members - not all members but many members - of agencies) within the governments of Western countries to undermine and destroy Israel, which I wrote about.
The following book documents that aspect of the situation that I wrote about.
In the book, which was written by John Loftus, and which was published in 1994, John Loftus makes an error in that he erroneously writes that the Wahabi sect of Sunni Islam is a perversion of Islam, and in that he erroneously writes that Islam (authoritative Islam) is a peaceful religion.
"The Secret War Against the Jews: How Western Espionage Betrayed The Jewish People", by John Loftus
http://www.amazon.com/dp/0312156480/ref%3Dasc_df_03121564801289340/%3Ftag%3Daskcomel-20%26creative%3D394997%26creativeASIN%3D0312156480%26linkCode%3Dasn
The Jewish people, who are a people who have been unsurpassed wronged, flagellate themselves over wrongdoings that they rightly and wrongly perceive themselves to have committed, and falsely confess to crimes. I ask that my fellow human beings, and especially my fellow Americans, honor what is good and decent and have consideration for those of us who are Jewish.
Correction:
I wrote,
which should be,
---
I am not asking for, and do not want, apologies or retribution.
I want understanding and kindness.
Well, too bad if things are not good enough for you Mac, but I ask you, who is there when there is a flood, an earthquake, a famine, an outbreak of disease, or when defenseless people are slaughtered as they were in Kosovo? The United States of America is the Hegemon-Leviathan that goes to the aid of those in trouble, followed by everyone else.
All nations act as they can act in their own interests - there is no shame in that. Read Thucydides, Xenophon, Tacitus, Hobbes, or Machiavelli.
You would have the perfect as the enemy of the good. There is no perfect state, no perfect polity - read Plato's Republic and More's Utopia as examples of unworkable ideal governments - nor is there a perfect man.
Perhaps you can go live with Immanuel Kant and Jean Jacques Rousseau in the ideal State. The Categorical Imperative will be the only law, sentiment will determine policy in all cases not covered by the law, and and every person will know exactly what to do at all times. Karl Marx will be a saint there too.
You thought that you would wait until everyone left to post a last little dig. Ha! (Cattus amat piscem sed non vult tangere flumen.)
Do you need a job? The President could use some help; and if you asked nicley perhaps you could be the National Security Advisor - or maybe you could fill in when the president is tired and Joseph Biden is busy.
Vincis cochleam tarditudine. Vir sine animo mortis imago.
I'm sorry to insult you but you are an America hater - thus you get the vulgar:
Tu as le bagage, donc, va enculer une mouche!
If it was that in only the past the Jewish people were wronged, and that at this time Jewish people were not being wronged, I would not say these things. The past is the past.
However, I am saying this now because the Jewish people are currently under global multipronged - Islamic-Supremacist, European, Leftist, deranged Jewish-Jew-Hating, Paleo-Conservative - intendedly genocidal siege.
We do Daniel, we do. I'll try to get a look at the book you mentioned as well. Thank you Daniel Bielak.
P.S. That last little dig by Mac ticked me a little and so I insulted him, against my better judgement. Good night. It's late here now. (The Left Coast)
Thank you very much classicus.
Daniel
you asked for understanding and kindness.
Aside from the Mohammedan dementors and one or two of their deluded fellow-travellers, you *will* find both understanding and kindness from many here.
And now, I offer you not arguments or facts, but gifts that I hope may nourish the soul.
Of course, what I'd really like to share with you and with all other Jewish contributors - and lurkers - at this forum, is the voice of Sarah Gorby singing passages from the Shir haShirim in Hebrew, in Algerian-French Jew Jacques Lasry's lovely, haunting "Cantique de Cantiques: Cantate Hebraique". But it hasn't made its way onto youtube yet, or anywhere else on the web that I can find. My heart lifts every time I hear the place in that composition where the voice of the woman singing alone - Israel - is joined by the man's voice coming in like sunrise...the other voice in the dialogue, the voice - analogically speaking - of YHWH her beloved.
Anyway, here is a little Jewish boy, Daniel Reich, in Jerusalem, singing 'Adonai el-roi', from Bernstein's 'Chichester Psalms'.
2nd movement of Bernstein's Chichester Psalms with Hazamir choire at the Jerusalem Theatre on Aug. 14th 2008
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5sjqoYCm10
Same singer, same city, different venue, earlier in the same year:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oQNOCeJIC8M&feature=related
And now, here is something else entirely - the Wizard's Chess scene from the second Harry Potter film.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRCgQ3yQuIg
It is eerily apposite that Daniel Radcliffe, playing Harry in the film, is Jewish (Jewish mother).
Whenever I watch this sequence I can't help thinking that in this scene, analogically speaking, Ron is 'Rome', Hermione is 'Athens', and Harry...Harry is 'Jerusalem'.
The analogy holds all the way from this episode which I'm showing you, through to the end of Harry's confrontation with the possessed Quirrell and semi-ghostly Voldemort.
A parable for our times, perhaps.
Haven't read anything yet, but have to get this on the record:
This SOB goes over there and tells the world that America is not and never will be at war with Islam.
Who the holy ***$%#$^ does he think he is? How dare he commit my future defense opportunities with some kind of pre-emptive fairy tale? Sometimes, you can just say nothing and then will never have to go back on your word.
This guy's got two years left, maybe, and he knows HE won't be declaring war on Islam. Hey, asshole, it's already declared war on infidels, like, a millenia ago. How dare he. He enrages me to my core and is a sorry, sad excuse for a leader. He is anathema to my country.
The USA is simply the least barbarous of history's long list of imperial powers.
Hmm, America is also the least barbarous of history's long list of non-imperial powers, semi-powers and micro-powers. And no powers at all.
Considering that America is at the same time the most powerful of all the powers that ever existed (and ,today, the only superpower) that is a great, if unintended, compliment.
As one of the hundreds of millions of people of Europe liberated from the Nazi and later Communist slave camp I believe that never in the history of man has goodness and justice found such a faithful and powerful ally as America.
yep we,re all waiting for someone well respected from the Islamic community to come forth and declaire their good intensions toward the west and all it christian populations. After all i,m sure the islamic belief that we all need to convert or be killed is all just one big misunderstanding. Com,on now lets just shake hands and make up.
Criticizing Israel is one thing. Calling America a "blind" follower of Israel is another: that happens to be a lie, and I can cite you chapter and verse of American policy toward Israel since 1948 to demonstrate that. Refusing to recognize the antecedents of Israeli military occupation of the W. Bank is willful ignorance of history, arbitrarily deciding that history, or at least relevant history, did not begin until 1967 (thus ignoring all the years of Jordanian occupation), and is quite demonstrably anti-Semitic because of its deliberate and willful focus on Israeli behavior to the exclusion of all else. In my world, Channe, we call things what they are, not something else. And I have a good idea I know what you are.
I can't find any Jewish scholars that want to sweep away the democratic government of my country and give me a choice between conversion, subjugation or death. I like that. Oh, I'm a filthy Zionist.
I can find any number of Islamist scholars that want to sweep away the democratic government of my country and give me a choice between conversion, subjugation or death. I don't like that. Oh, I'm a bigoted Islamophobe.
You can't deny that we (the allied countries) goofed up majorly in Iraq. We came ostensibly to liberate the country from Saddam based on mythical weapons of mass distruction, and now they are virtually a client state to Iran, a country with actual atomic bomb aspirations. Oops.
Besides, what he said about the US supporting tin pot dictators from time to time when it's convenient is true. Most recent example being Karzai.
This guy is back? Just to remind JW readers: this "Mac" is not me. He trades in lies and half-truths and distortions and hates Israel. This man is not me.
You're entitled to your opinions, Mac, but I gotta' say they're really twisted ones seen from my perspective. Glad folks like you weren't in charge of things in the West, and especially in America, over the past century. It would be a much darker world right now had this been the case. It's instructive to reflect upon how fortunate America has been in having Presidents like Truman, Eisenhower and Reagan to lead America and the West rather than folks that think as you do. But, of course, you know better than Truman, Eisenhower and Reagan did. Yeah. Done here.
Well this was a very informative thread. Considering the way muslims have behaved in india for centuries and continue to behave today, I have no problem deciding which side to support.
Mac Said:
""The fact that some Jews have been living in the area continuously is not a justification for the creation of Israel.""
Now, I know it is not quite the same thing, but I cannot help but compare this with the Ayodhya temple issue in India. In brief, there was a temple at a spot which hindus have believed for millennia to be the birthplace of Lord Ram. In the 1500s the muslim invader Babur destroyed it and built a mosque over the temple. Hindus continued going to the spot to pray INSPITE of the mosque being there which indicates the importance of the spot to them. Since 1855 onwards hindus progressively regained occupation of the spot and the mosque was finally destroyed in 1992.
Now, I have a dim view of anyone who says there was no justification for what the hindus did. The jews however, have done something far more drastic. They have actually reclaimed an entire country from the muslims. No wonder they are hated so much.
nishant said:
They have actually reclaimed an entire country from the muslims. No wonder they are hated so much.
That's not why Muslims hate Israelis and Jews. Muslims hate Jews because Muhammad in his later career hated them, demonized them, executed them, deported them. For example:
In core Islamic texts, Muhammad says the earth belongs to Muhammad and Allah, warns the Jews to accept Islam if they wish to be safe, and says he wants to deport them:
In Sahih Muslim, a canonical hadith collection:
********************************
From page 464 (690 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, Muhammad presides over the beheading of 600 to 900 Jews:
****************************************************
On page 369 (554 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, Muhammad says "kill any Jew who falls into your power":
It's a "beautiful" story of two brothers, Muhayyissa and Huwayyisa: (To avoid confusing the two brothers, keep in mind that the brother whose name begins with M is the Murderer in the story.)
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In core Islamic texts, Muhammad says that one day the very trees and stones will help Muslims to kill Jews.
He says it both in Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, Islam's two most canonical hadith collections:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 56, Number 791:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 176:
Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 177:Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6981:Sahih Muslim, Book 041, Number 6983:
dumbledoresarmy,
Thank you for your kind comment.
""Muslims hate Jews because Muhammad in his later career...""
I am aware of that traeh, I was just saying that it gave the muslims another reason to hate the jews even more, not that they need reasons or opportunities to hate.
By the way, thank you for very informative posts on this website.
The following is a correction to the summary, that I, in my first comment on this post wrote, of the history, from 1917 to 1967, of the situation that Israel is in.
In that summary, that I wrote, of that history, I wrote, inaccurately, that the British army, along with the armies of five Arab countries, attacked Israel several days after Israel was voted a country by the then-newly-founded United Nations by a majority vote in 1948. What is my understanding of what is, in fact, the case is that British troops fought alongside the army of Jordan in that Muslim Arab self-proclaimedly intendedly genocidal attack on Israel launched by the armies of five Arab states in 1948, and my understanding of what is the case is that the British army, as a whole, did not participate in that Muslim Arab attack on Israel in 1948.
In reply to my comment in which I wrote that summary of the history of the situation, commenter traeh wrote a comment in which he wrote that it was his understanding that the British government had provided military assitance to the Arab armies during that attack on Israel, but that it was not his undestanding that the British army, as a whole, had fought against Israel in that attack.
I, in a subsequent comment, replied to traeh that I thought that he was correct and that it was my understanding that British troops had fought along side the Jordanian army against Israel, and that I thought that the British army, as a whole, did not fight against Israel, and I wrote that I thought that there may be some other errors in that summary, that I wrote, of the history of the situation (which were errors that I wrote that I thought were minor errors and which were errors that I wrote that I thought may include dates being off by one or two or so years). I have reviewed that summary, that I wrote, of the history of the situation, and it is now my understanding that there are no errors in that summary, that I wrote, of the situation, other than what may be one, or two, or so, dates being off by one, or two, or so, years.
The following are additional facts of, and what is my understand that are additional facts of, the history of the situation.
In 1920, Amin al-Husseini (Mohammad Amin al-Husseini), a member of the Arab aristocratic Husseini family, incited, and caused, murderous Arab riots against Jewish people in the British Mandate of Palestine
In 1921, after Amin al-Husseini, in 1920, incited and caused murderous Arab riots against Jewish people in the British Mandate of Palestine, British officials appointed Amin al-Hussieni to the position of Grand Mufti of Jerusalem. In 1921, the British government appointed Jack Philby to one of the most influential positions of management of the British Mandate of Palestine. Jack Philby was a British Intelligence officer, a self-professed Socialist, and was well-know to his colleagues as being a fervent hater of the Jewish people, and was a fluent speaker of Arabic, and, in 1930, converted to Islam, and, in the 1930's, illegally provided, and illegally profitted from providing, petroleum from Muslim Arab states to the Nazi (National Socialist) regime of Germany.
In the 1930's, British officials supported and facilitated Arab murderous anti-Jewish riots in, and Arab massacres of Jewish people in, the British Mandate of Palestine. During those Arab murderous anti-Jewish riots and Arab massacres of Jewish people, British officials prevented Jewish people from defending themselves, and punished Jewish people who defended themselves during those Arab murderous anti-Jewish riots and Arab massacres of Jewish people, and charged with murder, and put to death, Jewish people who killed Arab attackers during those Arab murderous anti-Jewish riots and Arab massacres of Jewish people.
In 1935, Amin al-Husseini created the Palestinian Arab Party as part of the Nazi-influenced Nazi-allied Arab Nationalist movement. With the Palestinian Arab Party, Amin al-Husseini created a terrorist youth corps division, al-Futuwwa, which Amin al-Husseini officially called the Nazi Scouts, and whose structure Amin al-Husseini modeled on the youth corps of the Nazi regime of Germany, the Hitler Youth. Amin al-HUsseini, using al-Futuwwa, murdered Arab leaders in the British Mandate of Palestine who opposed him and who were not opposed to the creation of a Jewish state alongside an Arab state in the part of the British Mandate of Palestine that had not been made into Transjordan by British officials.
The majority of, or all of, the land that the Jewish people who, in the early part of the 20th century, were engaged in the Jewish liberation and self-determination movement - the Zionist movement - the endeavor of rebuilding the Jewish country, Israel - developed and cultivated was land that those Jewish people bought, at exorbitant prices, from Arab landowners, who in many cases, or in most cases, or in all cases, were Arab absentee land owners. Those Jewish people constituted the Yishuv - the Jewish community in the British Mandate of Palestine who were cultivating the land of and rebuilding the country of the Jewish people, Israel.
In the 1930's, many Arab people from areas in the Middle East outside of the part of the British Mandate of Palestine that had not been made into Transjordan by British officials, migrated to the then-thiving Yishuv community seeking, and finding, work.
From the 1930's to throughout the 1940's, British officials closed off all Jewish migration to the British Mandate of Palestine and barred entry to the British Mandate of Palestine by, and turned back, all Jewish people who were seeking entry into the British Mandate of Palestine who were fleeing from Europe who were trying to escape from being murdered by the members of Nazi regime of Germany and from being murdered by the members of the Nazi-allied Fascist regimes and militias in Europe.
The Following is What Must Be Done
In order to protect the Jewish people in the country of the Jewish people, Israel, from being mass-murdered by the Islamic-Supremacist regime of Iran and its proxies, and in order to protect the whole world from being violently attacked by, and infiltrated by, and taken over by, and subsequently enslaved by, the modern Islamic-Supremcaist political movement, Jewish people, and non-Jewish people, and, most importantly, the members of the government of Israel, need to honestly, accurately, clearly, effectively communicate the factual currently 90 year history and current reality of the situation the Israel is in to the members of the governments of Western countries and to the whole world.
Most importantly, in order to wake up the members of the societes of Western free democratic countries to the nature of the modern Islamic-Supremacist political movement, the Nazi German history and legacy of the 'Palestinian movement', which was founded by Amin al-Husseini, who was a member of, and an early leader of, the Muslim Brotherhood, and who was an adjoined official of the Nazi Regime of Germany, and who was the co-architech the genocide of the Jewish people in Europe by the Nazi regime of Germany, and who was the mentor of, and an uncle of, Egyptian-born Yasser Arafat (Mohammed Yasser Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini), who, in 1954, in Egypt, founded Fatah under the guidance of Amin al-Husseini, must be communicated to the societes of Western free democratic countries.
IMPORTANT FACTS OF THE EVENTS OF THE PAST HUNDRED YEARS THAT ARE FACTS THAT ARE IMPORTANT TO UNDERSTAND IN ORDER TO UNDERSTAND THE CURRENT SITUATION IN THE WORLD
The following are facts of, and, in some cases, are what I think are facts of, events of the past hundred years which are facts that, and, in some cases, are what I think are facts that, in comments that I posted in the comments section of that post, I wrote about, and which are facts of which some are facts that, and which, in some cases, are what I think are facts of which some are what I think are what I think are facts that, commenter Wellington challenged me about and made countering arguments about, which were arguments that I, in appeasement, wrongly conceded to, and are facts that, and, in some cases, are what I think are facts that, are important to understand in order to understand the current situation in the world.
With my writing the following facts, and things which I think are facts, it is not my intention to blame or offend.
With my writing the following facts, and things which I think are facts, it is my intention to inform, in order to make the current situation better.
The 1930's and Today - What Happened in the 1930's is Happening Now
The following are articles which describe the collusion of American academia and other Western academia with the Nazi regime of Germany in the 1930's.
"Harvard's Nazi Ties", by Stephen H. Norwood
http://www.wymaninstitute.org/articles/2004-11-harvard.php
"Stephen H. Norwood's 'The Third Reich in the Ivory Tower'"
http://page99test.blogspot.com/2009/08/stephen-h-norwoods-third-reich-in-ivory.html
"Higher Ed and the Third Reich"
http://www.insidehighered.com/news/2009/06/17/nazism
"Antisemitic Myths in the American Academy: Blacks, Jews and Nazis", A Symposium at The Vidal Sassoon International Center for the Study of Antisemitism at Hebrew University in Jerusalem (Video); The first part of the symposium is a talk by Prof. Stephen H. Norwood about the collusion of Western academia with the Nazi regime of Germany during the 1930's. In his talk, Prof. Norwood documents, among other things, the following.
O The commradery and collusion between the ethnically West European American industrialist and financier alumni and Nazi German officials who were hosted guests of, and, from what I remember from hearing the talk, was, in at least one case, an alumni of, Harvard University
O The refering to as being "ridiculous", the complaints of Jewish people who, and the few non-Jewish students who, voiced opposition to the hosting of those German Nazi officials by Harvard University
O The expulsion, by the administrators of the University, of students who opposed the hosting and collusion of those Nazi German officials by the administrators of University
O The student exchange programs between American and other Western Universities with Nazi German Universities (which had at that time already been purged of Jewish faculty and students), while the persecution against the Jewish people in Germany, at that time in the 1930's, was being reported (barely) in the American press, and was well known to all of the administrators of those Western Universities
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHeDCOGUJv4
In the 1920's, the Jewish-conspiracy-theory-propagating, anti-Jewish, intendedly hate inciting, European fictional propaganda book "Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" was published and circulated in West European countries and was believed to be true by members of the political, and academic, and journalistic classes in Britain. On May 12, 1920, The Times of London published a long article, titled "A Disturbing Pamphlet: A Call for Enquiry", about the "Protocols of the ELders of Zion". The following is the last line of the article: "Have we, by straining every fibre of our national body, escaped a 'Pax Germanica' only to fall into a 'Pax Judaica'?"".
In the 1920's, the automobile manufacturing industrialist Henry Ford sponsored the dissemination of "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" in the United States, and disseminated the ideology of "The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion" in a series of articles called "The International Jew: The World's Foremost Problem" in his newspaper The Dearborn Independent.
Anti-Jewish bigotry was pervasive in the United States in the 1930's. I think that it was a widespread belief in Europe and the United States that "Jewish bankers" controlled the economy of the world and that "The Jews" controlled the administration of Franklin Delano Roosevelt, some the members of whose administration were Jewish (and were people who were Jewish who were in positions of power who, out of normal ethnically Jewish-European fear of being hated for being perceived by ethnically non-Jewish ethnically European to be advocating for the well-being of Jewish people, did not act to protect the Jewish people from harm; were "Court Jews").
In the 1930's, people in Western countries, and especially people in Europe, had been traumatized by World War I, and, in the 1930's, people in Western countries wanted to avoid any form of conflict.
In the 1930's, in Western countries, some Socialists, and so-called "Liberal" self-described "Pacifists" defended the Nazi regime of Germany and verbally attacked Jewish people who were advocating for opposition to the Nazi regime of Germany, and called Jewish people who were advocating for opposition to the Nazi regime of Germany "Warmongers".
The following is a talk in which by Dr. Simcha Epstein describes this phenomena.
"Are We Reliving the 1930s? How West European Philo-Semites became Anti-Semites before the Second World War", a talk by Dr. Simcha Epstein (Video)
http://www.jcpa.org/JCPA/Templates/showpage.asp?DBID=1&LNGID=1&TMID=723&FID=799&PID=0
In Britian in the 1930's the student body of either Oxford University or Cambridge University signed a petition in which they declared their opposition to any opposition by the government of Britian to the Nazi regime of Germany.
I think that The Nazi movement in Germany in the 1920's was begun by, and led by, academics, and I think that the anti-Jewish pro-Nazi movement in Western countries in the 1930's was begun by, and led by, academics.
In the 1930's, one of the few people who advocated opposing the Nazi regime of Germany was Winston Churchill, who, at that time was a Conservative member of the Parliament of Britian, and who fervently advocated opposing the Nazi regime of Germany and was mocked and scorned and reviled and ridiculed by his fellow members of Parliament in Britian for doing so.
The members of the government of Britain resisted opposing the Nazi regime of Germany until Nazi Germany invaded Poland in 1939 and thereby broke a treaty that Adolf Hitler, the leader of the Nazi regime Germany, had made with then Prime Minister of Britain, Neville Chamberlain.
The government of the United States of America did not enter into the war against Nazi Germany until after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor in 1941.
The government of the United States refused to accepted Jewish people who were trying to flee from Europe during the 1940's. The governments of almost all Western countries refused to accepted Jewish refugees during the 1940's. Britain allowed refuge in Britain to some very few (I think a few hundred or less) Jewish people who were fleeing from the Nazi regime of Germany in Europe, but members of the government of Britian also engaged in a diplomatic campaign to prevent, and the granting of refuge in any Western country of any Jewish people who were trying to flee from being murdered by the Nazi regime of Germany in Europe.
During the 1930's and 1940's, The New York Times, a newspaper whose owners were ethnically Jewish-European and politically "Liberal", deliberately - out of common Jewish-European deep profound fear of being seen as advocates of the Jewish people by ethnically non-Jewish ethnically European people - played down and hid the reality of the persecution of the Jewish people in Germany by Nazi regime of Germany, and then played down and hid the reality of the subsequent mass-murder of the Jewish people in all of Europe by the Nazi regime of Germany.
During the 1930's and 1940's, leaders of so-called 'Jewish Organizations' in the United States, deliberately - out of common Jewish-European deep profound fear of being seen as advocates of the Jewish people by ethnically non-Jewish ethnically European people - sabotaged efforts by some Zionist Jewish people and by other Jewish people, to rescue Jewish people in Europe from being murdered by the Nazi regime of Europe.
If, in the 1930's, the governments of Western countries had non-violently opposed the Nazi regime of Germany, and had, with non-violent skillful actions, prevented Germany from becoming militarily powerful, World War II, and the mass-murder of almost all of the Jewish people in Europe - the mass-murder of approximately six million men, women, and children - by the members of the Nazi regime of Germany and by many of the millions of supporters of the Nazi regime of Germany, would have been averted and would not have taken place.
The governments and societies of Western countries, in some cases, allowed, and in other cases, actively participated in, the mass-murder of almost all of the Jewish people in Europe.
Soon after World War II, Allan Dulles, the then-head of the newly-founded CIA, recruited several thousand German former officials of the Nazi regime of Germany to the CIA. Those German former officials of the Nazi regime of Germany formed the founding bulk and core of the CIA. The Nazi regime of Germany was an ideologically-based political regime whose members were all adherents of its ideology, and which was an ideology whose central belief was the belief in an evil world-wide Jewish conspiracy to destroy what the members of the Nazi regime of Germany called "Christian civilization", and was an ideology whose central goal was the annihilation of the Jewish people. The fact that the founding membership of the Secret Service agency of the United States of America was constituted mainly of several thousand former officials of the Nazi regime of Germany is not trivial. The fact that this is rationalized as being "acceptable" by, and is considered trivial by, some people is a manifestation of the deep profound engrained nature of anti-Jewish bigotry in Western society. The Nazi regime of Germany was fully supported by, and endorsed by, the Christian Catholic Church. The fact that the Nazi regime of Germany was fully supported by and endorsed by the Christian Catholic Church is not trivial. The fact that the Nazi regime of Germany was fully supported by, and endorsed by, the Christian Catholic Churcht is ignored and denied by millions of people in Western societies is a manifestation of the deep profound engrained nature of anti-Jewish bigotry in Western society. The CIA and the State Department of the United States of America have, for several decades, been engaged in an effort to undermine the country of the Jewish people, Israel. This is not trivial.
Western (Culturally Christian-European) Anti-Jewish Bigotry and The Role It Plays in The Current Situation in The World
The following is an essay that was posted, as multiple comments, by an anonymous commenter, on a post on the blog A Liberal Defence of Israel ( http://mid-eastplus.blogspot.com ), which is a blog by Denis Maceoin.
http://mid-eastplus.blogspot.com/2010/07/lies-lies-and-lies-about-lies.html?showComment=1279117634509#c4188327328578745386
The following is a link to an article that presents the nature of the psychology of Western (Christian-European) anti-Jewish bigotry.
"Worth a thousand Words - Picturing the Antisemitic Imagination"; The article begins on the page down past the top of the page
http://web.mac.com/catherinechatterley/Catherine_Chatterley/Publications.html
The Responsibility of Members of the Republican Party for the Current Situation
The eugenics movement was founded in the United States by wealthy ethnically West-European industrialists and financiers in the United States who, I think, were members of the Republican political establishment of the United States, and who, I think, subsequently financed the Nazi regime of Germany.
I think that senior members of the Republican political establishment of the United States were colluders with the members of, and, subsequently, were supporters of, and colluders with, former members of, the Nazi regime of Germany. The vast majority of the officials of the Nazi regime of Germany, including the majority of the senior officials of the Nazi regime of Germany, were never arrested nor captured nor tried for crimes. The fact that this is the case and that this is ignored, and viewed as being trivial by the Western world, is a demonstration of, and a manifestation of, the deep profound anti-Jewish bigotry that is a normal, normative, engrained part of culturally Christian-European - Christian and post-Christian - culture. The vast majority of the officials of the Nazi regime of Germany lived out, and are living out, their lives as free people, and, I think, continued, and are continuing, their ideology, and developed a strategy of the organization of their political movement as an underground movement, and, I think, formed powerful organizations and commercial corporations.
The original, and the most instrumental, agent in bringing adherents of the Nazi-influenced, formerly-Nazi-allied, modern Islamic-Supremacist political movement into positions of influence in the United States, was Grover Norquist, a member of the Republican political establishment.
The Responsibility of Members of Western Academia for, and The Responsibility of Members of The Democratic Political Party for, the Current Situation
The Jewish-conspiracy-theory-based anti-Jewish anti-Israeli movement in the United States was most influentially instigated by the lie-filled, Jewish-conspiracy-theory-lie-propagating, anti-Jewish anti-Israeli propaganda book "The Israel Lobby" by academics Walt Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt, and by the lie-filled, lie-propagating, anti-Jewish anti-Israeli book "Peace not Apartheid" by former representative of the Democratic party and former President of the United States, Jimmy Carter.
In the book "The Israel Lobby" by John Mearshimer and Stephen Walt, Mearshimer and Walt falsely claim that there is popular support in Israel for the forcible transfer of Arab people, which is falsely claimed popular support that, and which is population transfer that, Mearshimer and Walt denounce. The following is what Israeli journalist Ben Dror Yemini wrote about the policy of population transfer that John Mearsheimer advocated in a situation that did not involve the country of the Jewish people.
"Ben-Dror Yemini: 'And the World is Lying' - The Plight of the Refugees"
http://www.solomonia.com/blog/archives/009518.shtml
One of the most influential agents of the political policy of undermining the country of the Jewish people, Israel, is Zbigniew Brzezinski, who was the National Security Advisor of Jimmy Carter during the United States Presidential Administration of Jimmy Carter, and who was the National Security Advisor of Barack Obama.
Zbigniew Brzezinski started the global Islamic-Supremacist movement.
Zbigniew Brzezinski supported the overthrow of the Shah of Iran and orchestrated the bringing to power of the Islamic-Supremacist Ayatolla Ruhollah Khoeini as the ruler of Iran as, and brought to power the Taliban and al-Qaeda in Afghanistan as, part of an effort that Brzezinski engaged in which he viewed as being an strategic effort to destroy the Soviet Union by unleashing Islamic terrorism against the Soviet Union.
The following is an excerpt of an interview, from 1998, with Zbigniew Brzezinski in the French newspaper Le Nouvel Observateur (Jan 15-21, 1998, p. 76*)
Zbigniew Brzezinski consciously destroyed two nations, Iran and Afghanistan, of which one, Iran, was an ally of the United States, in order to achieve a goal that he wanted to achieve, and Zbigniew Brzezinski consciously unleashed the global Islamic-Supremacist movement, which he viewed, and, I think, still views, as not being a serious danger to the whole world.
I remember hearing or reading an interview of someone who recounted having a meal with Zbigniew Brzezinski and his wife, and who recounted that Brzezinski's wife began to verbally attack Israel, slandering Israel, and that when he, that person, started to say something to correct her, Brzezinski's wife shouted at him something like, or shouted exactly, "Shut up! You don't know what you're talking about!"
The Current State of the Relationship Between Western Academia and The Islamic Supremacist Current Regime of Iran
"Relating to Iran, in seminar and in person" - Jackson Institute fellow arranges private meeting with Iranian president for students in her graduate seminar; Yale hosts friendly meeting of Yale students with Mahmoud Amadenijad; the text of the caption from the photo in the article: "Thirteen Yale students met with Iranian President Ahmadinejad after his controversial speech at the UN last Thursday."
http://www.yaledailynews.com/news/2010/sep/27/relating-to-iran-in-seminar-and-in-person/
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Daniel Bielak
http://www.youtube.com/user/danielbielak
Correction:
I wrote,
which should be,
Ima Freeman,
Thank you for your kind appreciation. I'm glad that what I wrote may be helpful.
Ima Freeman,
I apologize for not replying to you sooner.
Why should the whole world have to reach out to moslems? Surely, it should be the moslems reaching out to the world and begging the world's forgiveness for their atrocities.
Sorry, but I am so tired of hearing how the bombers are misunderstanding the Qu'ran and the majority of moslems are peaceful souls. These terrorists do not misunderstand islam at all. They are carrying out islam's commands to the letter.
It is not the job of the victims to reach out to their attackers.
Why should the whole world have to reach out to moslems? Surely, it should be the moslems reaching out to the world and begging the world's forgiveness for their atrocities.
Sorry, but I am so tired of hearing how the bombers are misunderstanding the Qu'ran and the majority of moslems are peaceful souls. These terrorists do not misunderstand islam at all. They are carrying out islam's commands to the letter.
It is not the job of the victims to reach out to their attackers.