Pakistan: Christian woman sentenced to death for "blasphemy"

So the tiny minority of extremists is not so tiny after all!!

Can some one inform our Prez, MSM and all those lefty pseudo intellectuals who apologizing for Islam/Musalims all the time!!

Our Prez visits a Hindu majority country India and prefers to visit a Muslim tomb and then goes to a Muslim majority country Indonesia and visits a mosque. Is there a doubt about his allegiance to Islam???

And when asked a direct question about jihad, Dear Leader blathers, stumbles, obfuscates and deliberately ignores the real threat of jihad in the presence of people who may have recently lost loved ones to the jihadists who attacked the city in which they all stood at that moment -- Mumbai. Is he gutless, clueless or just a Trojan horse?

Gee: I thought all Muslims revered Jesus Christ and that they were just another peaceful, 'child' of the "3" Abrahamic faiths! Must be some radical minority of hotheads out there that have somehow mistaken the Kumbaya tenants of Islam. Can't we all just be friends with just a little more "inter-faith outreach" because, after all, don't we just all worship the same God?

So, how long will it take before someone finally revokes the treaty and trade status of countries that do things like this? Or is some life just cheaper than that of others?

Yet again, we are offered another example of why Islam is wholly incompatible with Western values.

An ominous marker of any totalitarian regime is a set of laws under which a citizen, more accurately a subject, can be charged criminally at any time and/or on no basis. Here, the charge is violation of group-think Such laws are intended to keep subjects wary and on guard at all times such that no mischief against the state can be generated. In other words, “peace.” Stated differently, peace to the leftist means no opposition to the state.

In any totalitarian regime the state is first and foremost, with individuals allowed to exist only to perpetuate the state.

Obedience-through-fright is the objective of these deliberately vague laws. JW readers may recall Section 301 of Turkey's penal code which criminalizes behavior which "offends Turkishness." Similarly with Pakistan's infamous Section 295 which criminalizes various forms of "blasphemy." [Section 295-A forbids outraging religious feelings; Section 295-B forbids defiling the Quran; Section 295-C forbids defaming Muhammad.]

In American jurisprudence such laws would be stuck unconstitutional under the due process clauses of either the 5th Am. (for federal behavior) or the 14th Am. (for state behavior) on the basis that these laws are void for vagueness.

The void-for-vagueness doctrine supports accepted American social policies. {ASIDE: Bear in mind that in the American tradition federal and state constitutions are intended so that the people control their governments. That governments are increasingly and deliberately misreading constitutions in order to assert more and more power over the people is a clear perversion of the original design.} First, the void-for-vagueness doctrine encourages the government to clearly distinguish conduct that is lawful from that which is unlawful. Under the due process clauses, individuals must be given adequate notice of their legal obligations so they can govern their behavior accordingly. When individuals are left uncertain by the wording of an imprecise statute, criminal law can become a standard-less trap for the unwary.

Second, the void-for-vagueness doctrine discourages judges from attempting to apply sloppily worded laws. Like anyone else, judges often labor without success when interpreting poorly worded legislation.

Finally, the void-for-vagueness doctrine seeks to avoid encroachment on 1st Am. freedoms, such as freedom of speech, expression, petitioning of grievances. Because vague laws cause uncertainty in the minds of average citizens, some citizens will inevitably decline to take risky behavior that might land them in jail. When the vague provisions of a state or federal statute deter citizens from engaging in certain political or religious discourse, courts will apply heightened scrutiny to ensure that protected expression is not suppressed. For example, a law that prohibits "sacrilegious" speech would simultaneously chill the freedoms of expression and religion in violation of the void for vagueness doctrine.

Islam, not ready for prime time; not now, not ever.

Christian organisations need to take a militant stand against such atrocities against Christians.
They also should pressurise their governments to stop dealing with such countries.
Unless there are financial consequences, muslim countries will not take any action against atrocities on Christians.
Don't turn the other cheek, guys, slap back.

The Muslim women took offence and began beating Bibi. Afterwards she was locked in a room. According to Release International, a mob reportedly formed and "violently abused" her and her children.

The women, and the mob, and the death penalty are all sharia compliant...They are just practicing their religion...

Readers should never forget that Islam is a religion of compulsion. Surah 3:83 says, "Are they seeking a religion other than [Allah's], when every soul in the heavens and the earth has submitted to Him, willingly or by compulsion?
To Him they shall all return." Think of how many people have ultimately "converted" to Islam after spending time in harsh prison conditions or after suffering oppressive dhimmi taxation. Muslims are slaves to Allah.

It is important to understand this event from a cultural perspective. This has nothing to do with a religion that has been hijacked by extremist nations.

To the ancient Greeks, one definition of a slave was a person who clould not speak his own mind. Therefore, all Muslims are slaves.

Pakistan has "crossed a line" in sentencing a Christian woman to death for blasphemy.
.....................

"Crossed a line" indeed. This poor woman.

I also fear for her children and the rest of her family.

In what possible sense is Pakistan "an ally"?

And here's more on Martha Bibi ("Bibi" just means "married woman"—so no, no relation to Asia Bibi):

"Christian accused of blasphemy faces court in Pakistan"

Martha Bibi (45), a Pakistani Christian woman accused of blasphemy in January 2007 is scheduled to appear in court on May 26. If deemed guilty, she may face the death penalty. Martha has been accused of making derogatory remarks against the Qur'an and of "defiling the sacred name of the prophet
Muhammad." According to local Christians, the charges were brought against Martha by Muslim contractors who did not want to pay for materials she and her husband, a bricklayer, supplied to a construction site.

http://britishpakistanichristian.blogspot.com/2010/05/martha-bibi.html
.....................

If the above is correct, it is yet another case of Muslims using the cover of "blasphemy charges" to cover bilking Christians out of money or goods legally due due them.

In some case, I believe the agreements are entered into fraudulently from the beginning, assuming Christians will either be too cowed to demand payment—or else that they can be brought up on bogus "blasphemy" charges, as here.

In other cases, I imagine Muslims—so used to considering Christians barely more than slaves—consider their asking for payment for delivered goods or services to itself be a form of impudence so great as to constitute "blasphemy"—and hence warrant whatever charges Muslims decide to bring against them.

This is the horror that is the true and fundamental world of Islam. This sadly goes on in Muslim countries daily, from honor killings, to murdering Christians Jews, and non Muslims,let alone Muslims themselves for what is considered the slightest of improprieties.

And you really think this totalitarian ideology wants to build bridges to other faiths? Please think again! All you have to see what is happening in the EU Countries today.

The only bridge that Iman Feisel Rauf is building to other faiths is to Islam only with Mega Mosque and the infidel Christian be dammed where ever he resides in the Middle East.

The deception and hypocrisy is continuously overwhelming from every quarter of Islam.

its another case of christians and muslims not being able to mix. They goad you into saying something that can be considered offencive to islam ( which can be almost anything, even mentioning muhhamad)then you are done for. The arch bishop of Iraq has said all christians should leave as it is unsaf for them, and this is a country that we have lost a lot af good men in, in an effort to bring Democracy and peace, so what chance does a christian stand in a country thats only reason to exist is to serve muhhamad. Again and again Islam shows its intolerance of any form of critisim however vague. Its about time we started showing the same level of intolerance and stopped al building of mosques in the west. Maybe with fewer places to preach their hatred of christians the fewer will come here. WE DO NOT MIX

During one discussion, Bibi responded by speaking of how Jesus had died on the cross for the sins of humanity and asking the Muslim women what Muhammad had done for them.

(Apologies to John Cleese and the rest of the Pythons.)

After denouncing the Pakistani People’s Front as “splitters and wankers,” the Chairman of The United Peoples’ Front of Pakistan, calls his group to order then says:

“Right. So we all agree that Pakistan is oppressed and the purpose of this meeting is to make plans to strike a blow against the Americans and their Western bourgeois imperialism and capitalism in Pakistan, and we should include Islam as well. Let’s take Islam first. What has Muhammad ever done for us?”

(General low- level mumbling among the group.)

“Yes, I know what you all want to say, but apart from the Qur’an and Classical Arabic – which most of us can’t and don’t need to read, the lamp of Islam, the liberation from thought, the blessings of certainty, the sense of Islamic superiority, Shariah law, polygamy, child marriages, very easy divorce, male superiority, terrorising infidels, curved swords, the certainties of punishment, beheadings, stonings, amputations, beatings, lashings, justifications for rape and theft, and a chaotic, illegitimate political structure, what has Muhammad ever done for us?”

“Well, he cursed the Jews.”

“Oh that’s right - meeting adjourned.”

"Bibi responded by speaking of how Jesus had died on the cross for the sins of humanity and asking the Muslim women what Muhammad had done for them."

Muhammad gave Muslim men the guidelines on how to abuse...errrr...treat Muslim women...

Confronted with the reality that Mohammed has done nothing for them or anyone else, ever, its understandable these Muslim women became offended then flew into uncontrollable rage & fury at their own inability to see Islam for what it is...

Asia Bibi's trial lasted for 16 months & she was fined $1,500 to boot! That's a drop-kick end-play to the beating she & her children suffered for having a belief different than Muslims.

-------------------------------

More Taqqiya for the masses:

From The Daily Times:
'Your Right to Know -
A New Voice for a New Pakistan'

"KARACHI: The Punjab Governor, Salmaan Taseer has said that terrorism has no link with Islam and the whole nation is united on the issue of war on terrorism. He said that increasing poverty and backwardness in various countries are worth alarming issues and international community must take such measures, which could enable those countries for removal of imbalance in justice."

"...no one sentenced to death for blasphemy in Pakistan has ever been executed..."

At least not in the public eye. Probably more non-Muslims have been killed during the past year or so in Punjab alone as were put to death during the entire Spanish Inquisition, in which the most evil 'blasphemers' were not automatically sentenced to death...

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2010\11\09\story_9-11-2010_pg7_19

I notice Mac and Channe aren't on this thread, nor are any of their fellow Muslim trolls. And we know damned well why. They think this Pakistani Christian woman deserves to be executed, just like the hate-filled barbarians they are and support.

The blasphemy charge probably derives from the Quranic assertion that Issa (Jesus) did not die on the cross, as it was someone else resembling him who was actually crucified, Issa rising into heaven; all this occurring without the knowledge of those involved. The Christian version of this story, diverging from what the Quran attests, can therefore be construed by Muslims as insult to Islam, to Muslims, and tantamount to blasphemy, since the infallibility of the Quran is, in effect, denied. This Christian woman's audacity, in the Muslim mindset, is therefore a major offense, a capital crime warranting the death penalty under Sharia.

Blasphemy = victimless crime.

What happened to that poor woman was a simple yet well used ruse of ambush. Why would anyone debate religion with a moslem in Pakistan the first place?

"Bibi responded by speaking of how Jesus had died on the cross for the sins of humanity and asking the Muslim women what Muhammad had done for them. The Muslim women took offence and began beating Bibi. After wards she was locked in a room. According to Release International, a mob reportedly formed and "violently abused" her and her children."

Wonder what the international Human Rights organisations are doing about anachronistic "blasphemy" laws that destroy the basic right to live, of those that do not subscribe to a particular religion? Shouldn't this be a basic requirement of any country that joins the comity of nations, such as the UN.

Would a country that not only permits Cannibalism, but gives it the sanction of law, because of some cultural, tribal or historical reasons, be allowed to practice it in the modern world? Would its government have been allowed to obfuscate by saying that "no report of cannibalism has actually come to our notice."? Would the world's Human Rights organisations have continued to look the other way and pretend there was no problem?

Well people we must never mix the people deeds under the name of Islam to the real Islamic concepts. Killing a human being just because he is not muslim is never justified by Islam even if some ignorant people may think that.

The Quran says "ALLAH forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your
homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for
ALLAH loves those who are just." (Q 60:8).

People wanting to distort the figure of Islam always use other verses that persuade the muslims to kill other non-muslims. While this verse clearly explains that the other verses are applied on those who try to kill you or get you out of you land. which is very logic and convenient to everybody.

The Quran also says "There is no obligation in the religion" (Quran – Bull: 256)

Again I emphasize that there are alot of terroristic acts done around the world under the name of Islam and that real aware muslims are in deep grief towards those acts because killing any civilian is never justified by Islam.

If you want to know more about Islam from a truthful source you can contact
info@bridges-foundation.org
or you can contact me personally
mariamkh10@hotmail.com

This simply must NOT happen! I urge readers everywhere to take just a few minutes to write a letter to the Pakistan Embassy in your country asking that this ludicrous sentence not be carried out and Asia Bibi set free. A few moments of your time could save her life...please, and ask your friends to join you!

Re. our latest Muslim spin-doctor 'mariam', above (and the *hide* of it, attempting da'wa and lies in *this* thread!).

We know about the sharia penalty for 'blasphemy' and we know about the obscenely cruel restrictions imposed upon dhimmis. What happened in this story is readily explicable by both - and both form part of classical Islam as taught and practised all over dar al Islam for centuries.

Here's an article for new readers, to help them understand what 'mariam' is up to, here; and why every word in its posting should be cordially ignored.

http://www.meforum.org/2538/taqiyya-islam-rules-of-war
"How Taqiyya Alters Islam's Rules of War: Defeating Jihadist Terrorism," by Raymond Ibrahim in the Middle East Quarterly, Winter 2010.

Then see this:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2006/07/islamic-dictionary-for-infidels.html

Islamic Dictionary for Infidels

From that article:

'According to scholar Bassam Tibi, "at its core, Islam is a religious mission to all humanity. Muslims are religiously obliged to disseminate the Islamic faith throughout the world. "We have sent you forth to all mankind" (Q. 34:28).

'If non-Muslims submit to conversion or subjugation, this call (da'wa) can be pursued peacefully.

{Note - Asia Bibi, subjected to 'da'wa' from her Muslim fellow-workers, refused to accept Islam. She *also* refused to behave like a dhimmi: she explained her *own* faith to the Muslims, and implicitly criticised Mohammed by implying he was less worthy than Jesus. Both evangelising of Muslims, and criticism of any aspect of Islam whatsoever, is absolutely forbidden to dhimmis. - dda}

' If they do not, Muslims are obliged to wage war against them.

{And that is what the Muslims - first the female fellow-workers, then the mob and the 'local Muslim leaders', and finally the Pakistani judiciary - did to Asia Bibi, this insubordinate Islam-resisting Islam-criticising Christian. Since she refused to convert, and refused to behave like a good, submissive, grovelling, flattering dhimmi, they went to Stage 3 - WAR. They attacked her and her children; they beat her up, they imprisoned her, and they have sentenced her to death - dda}.

' In Islam, peace requires that non-Muslims submit to the call of Islam, either by converting or by accepting the status of a religious minority (dhimmi) and paying the imposed poll tax, jizya."

{Note that Asia Bibi is not only sentenced to death, but the Muslims are piling injury upon injury, pillaging her - which means, in practice, her family and probably her entire community - by imposing an enormous fine - dda}.

The more I see of Muslim behaviour toward non-Muslims the more I am revolted by it. It is like looking down into an abyss of darkness. It is Abuse codified and sacralised - *taught* and *approved of* and *encouraged*; absolute *evil* brazenly practised in broad daylight, accompanied by insufferable crowings of self-congratulation.

And no amount of empty lies and denials from the likes of 'mariam' can remove the impression of a mountain of stories, both historic and contemporary, exactly the same as the story of Asia Bibi...or worse.

We should just pull every dollar of aid and graft to Pakistan - maybe their hate and prejudices will go away!

I'm an atheist, but this was a brilliant (but fatal) retort by Asia Bibi: "During one discussion, Bibi responded by speaking of how Jesus had died on the cross for the sins of humanity and asking the Muslim women what Muhammad had done for them." Well, those Muslim women answered her with the violence Mohammad advocated against "blasphemers." Can't stand contradictions, can they? No pressure. Your choice. Have some stones.

Sometimes you just have to face facts: a huge plurality of Muslims, if not the majority, if not the overwhelming majority, simply like to kill others and spill blood. They worship power, dominance, violence, and bloodshed, and if they cannot have power themselves then they make themselves willing thugs and/or handmaidens to those who do. The "religion" propounds what in other religions would be seen as cruelty, sadism, and murder as proper behavior. There is no humility, no "submission" of the self to higher unseen powers, no self-reflection, no tikkun olam (repair/heal the world): in a mosque, Muslims are taught to dominate others and to kill those who resist. Quite different from what I learned from my lefty/lib Reform rabbis, and from what I have seen from the lefty/lib "mainstream" (and BDS-against-israel endorsing) Protestant churches in this country.

This is my reply to sir/ms dumbledosearmy:

1- I am openly performing da'wa and not *hiding* as you claim. I am not trying to convert you people to be muslims but I am just trying to let the world know the real Islam from the truthful sources and to assure that the real Islam can never be measured by the muslim deeds nowadays. I think this is my duty and every muslim's duty that I can never be ashamed of or *hide* from it.

2- You claim to be fully aware of the sharia to blasphemy while you don't. Death and abuse sentences against blasphemy is never justified by Islam.

The Quran says:"When ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme." [Qur'an 4:140]

The Quran also says: "And when they hear vain talk, they turn away therefrom and say: "to us our deeds and to you yours; peace be to you." [Qur'an 28: 55]

"Hold to forgiveness, command what is right; but turn away from the ignorant." [Qur'an 7:199]

"Have patience with what they say, and leaves them with noble (dignity)." [Qur'an 73:10]

"And the servants of Allah . . . are those who walked on the earth in humility, and when the ignorant address them, they say 'Peace'" [Qur'an 25:63]

"And if you punished, let your punishment be proportionate to the wrong that has been done to you; but if you show patience, that is indeed the best course. [Qur'an 16:126

"The recompense for an injury is an injury equal thereto: but if a person forgets and makes reconciliation, his reward is due from Allah." [Qur'an 62:40]

"Twice will they be given their reward, for that they have persevered, (and) they avert evil with good." [Qur'an 28:54]

I cannot find the word death or abuse among the verses. Can you?

3- You said"'According to scholar Bassam Tibi, "at its core, Islam is a religious mission to all humanity. Muslims are religiously obliged to disseminate the Islamic faith throughout the world. "We have sent you forth to all mankind" (Q. 34:28)."

This is very true it is the duty of a muslim to let other KNOW about Islam and not OBLIGE them to be muslims. People have the total freedom to be of any religion they want we muslims just have to deliver the message of god.

The Quran says "ALLAH forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your
homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for
ALLAH loves those who are just." (Q 60:8).

The Quran also says "There is no obligation in the religion" (Quran – Bull: 256)

4-About the Jizya issue it is true that it is present sharia but I think I will not explain it here unless anybody is interested. But, if you understand the concept of the jizyah well you will definitely see that it is very convenient and of the non-muslims favor.
Again you can contact me mariamkh10@hotmail.com if you want to know more about the jizyah.

4- You said "And no amount of empty lies and denials from the likes of 'mariam' can remove the impression of a mountain of stories, both historic and contemporary, exactly the same as the story of Asia Bibi...or worse"

Again and forever I will say, please do not mix between the the muslims behavior and the deeds done under the name of islam to the real Islamic concepts and beliefs. Abandoning the islamic manners, concepts and beliefs is the major reason of the recession muslims are undergoing nowadays. Also is the reason of the distortion of the Islam figure around the world in addition to those people making advantage of it and are happily increasing the distorted figure.

My reply to Mr./Ms slamdunk,

What you are saying is very true and convenient. A lot of muslims are actually directing their potentials toward correcting the wrong concepts and trying to eliminate the terroristic beliefs and acts. I agree with you that such matter should be highly increased and supported by muslims and non-muslims organizations.

An example of people excerting efforts in such matter is Dr. Fadel Soliman.

Also, a lot of TV adds are broad casted in the muslim nations now under the title "terrorism is of no religion". Showing that people doing violence cannot call themselves of any religion.

Also in the Islamic arts. A lot of songs and movies are directed toward resisting the terrorism.

I confess a lot more should be done resisting these beliefs and acts.

One thing I would like to clarify. The word Jihad is a wonderful word and unfortunately now known as the violent acts but it definitely doesn't mean so. I will not also explain the true concept of Jihad here unless anybody is interested. or you can still contact me and ask.

Mariam

Do you deny that sharia requires - on the authority of sayings of Mohammed in the Bukhari Hadith, and actual examples of what Mohammed's Companions did - that the person who publicly apostasises from Islam must be killed?

Do you deny that sharia - on the authority of Mohammed's own example, in that he approved of the assassination of persons such as Asma bint Marwan - requires that the person - whether Muslim or non-Muslim - who 'blasphemes' against, questions, mocks, contradicts or criticises any part of Islam whatsoever, must be killed?

I don't believe your smiling lies and nonsense.

I believe the apostates from Islam, such as Nonie Darwish and Canon Patrick Sookhdeo and Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

Do you even realize that you are making my skin crawl?

Had you been in that field in Pakistan, I think there's a pretty good chance you'd have been screeching with hysterical rage and beating up on Asia Bibi, right along with your violent Muslimah 'sisters'.

No need to get upset chaps. 'MODERATE' Muslims all over the world will be marching in protest over this persecution of their Christian sister. You may depend upon it that the biggest demonstration will be in religious tolerant Riyadh.

Christian woman sentenced to death in Pakistan 'for blasphemy'

A Christian woman has been sentenced to hang in Pakistan after being convicted of defaming the Prophet Mohammed.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/religion/8120142/Christian-woman-sentenced-to-death-in-Pakistan-for-blasphemy.html

Re the punishment for apostasy in Islam; the texts that justify it and the classic interpretations of those texts, and how they have been put into practice all over the Islamic world, for centuries.

Here is a very comprehensive study that was done by the American scholar Samuel Zwemer, who knew the languages and spent years living and travelling within the Muslim world, at the end of the 19th century and in the early 20th century.

It is his book called "The Law of Apostasy in Islam". The whole thing can be read online.

http://www.answering-islam.org/Books/Zwemer/Apostasy/index.htm

Everything in it reveals the statements by Mariam, above, to be a farrago of lies, empty double-talk, and nonsense.

Zwemer's summary of the reality of dhimmitude, in chapter four - 'centuries of intolerance and persecution' - shows what abominable nonsense 'Mariam' talked to us above when she/ he/ it pretended that dhimmi status was just peachy. Another quote: "In Egypt the Copts were tolerated under Moslem rule, but what this tolerance meant is really one long and sickening account of horrible persecution. "

And again, from Zwemer, who has a mountain of concrete examples:

"It is the same story in Arabia, Turkey,Afghanistan, Persia, Algiers, India - no mercy for the Apostate and no equality or liberty for Christian minorities."

Canon Patrick Sookhdeo, an apostate from Islam to Christianity, has also written a book entitled "Freedom to Believe: Challenging Islam's Apostasy Law".

From the 'Introduction' of that book:

"...Islam stands alone among world religions in officially prescribing a range of severe punishments for any of its adherents who choose to leave their faith, punishments that include the death sentence. As a result of this aspect of Islamic teaching, most Muslim people feel a strong hostility towards apostates and many feel they are justified - indeed duty-bound - to harass, attack, or even kill former Muslims."

An Anglican clergyman resident in Baghdad once baptised a group of Muslims who had decided to renounce Islam and become Christians. Within a month or so, most of them were dead - murdered, after their apostasy had become known. The only ones still left alive were those few who had not yet revealed their change of religion.

In the UK and in Italy, many ex-Muslims who have become Christian live in hiding under changed names, for fear of Muslim assassins setting out to enforce the sharia punishment for apostasy.

And as for blasphemy: well, the murder of Theo Van Gogh by a devout and zealous Muslim, in broad daylight, on a street in the Netherlands, and the Muslim with an axe who tried to kill Kurt Westergaard, and the two Muslims who tried to burn down the house of Lars Vilks, show us that there are quite a few Muslims out there who will attempt to enforce the sharia rule on 'blasphemy' even within the non-Muslim lands.

I don't doubt Mariam's sincerity but she is clearly deluded if she thinks Islam doesn't demand death for apostacy and if she doesn't realise that Muhammad spread his religion at swordpoint in offensive wars.

This verse has, according to many scholars who have applied the concept of abrogation, WHICH IS FROM THE QUR'AN ITSELF,been abrogated by later commands to slay the unbelievers wherever they are found, and fight them until they pay the jizya or die:

Qur'an: Chapter 2, Verse 256:
There is no compulsion in religion. The right direction is henceforth distinct from error. And he who rejecteth false deities and believeth in Allah hath grasped a firm handhold which will never break. Allah is Hearer, Knower.

Not only that, but Muhammad himself contadicts Mariam:

Hadith: Bukhari, Vol. 9, Book 84, No. 57:
Narrated Ikrima
Some Zanadiqa (atheists) were brought to Ali and he burnt them. The news of this event, reached Ibn Abbas who said, “If I had been in his place, I would not have burnt them, as Allah’s Apostle forbade it, saying, ‘Do not punish anybody with Allah’s punishment (fire)’. I would have killed them according to the statement of Allah’s Apostle, ‘Whoever changes his Islamic religion, then kill him.’”

There are other such verses and incidences from Muhammad's life.

The problem is, his 'holy' book is so garbled and contaradictary that it actually could be seen as justifying anything a Muslim wants to believe about it.

Mariam, courageous of you to comment on Jihad Watch.

As you must have noticed with Dumbledoresarmy and others here you are up against very Islam-knowledgeable people.

But you were clearly unaware of this beforehand and perhaps even now. For instance, 3 times you mentioned "There is no compulsion in religion". Well, it has been known for ages for commenters here that that verse is abrogated by the verse of the sword.

And other verses you mentioned that are like it, probably also were abrogated. Because in Mecca Mohammed was not powerful and had to be diplomatic, but in Medina he had great power and there he could be his arrogant bullying self.

And the verses of the Medinan period are much more violent and they are considered valid, and the contradicting peaceful Meccan verses are abrogated by them. According to Critical Islam Experts who take their clue from highly influential Believing Islam Experts.

Look, about Islam I, it's holy texts, Quran, Sira and Hadith. And about Islam II; the opinions of all the most influential Islamic schools, scholars, leaders who have spoken. There are now highly knowledgeable Critical Islam Experts (CIEX) around whom you simply cannot beat.

Then there is Islam III, interpretation and practice of Muslims. That is highly varied, but still studied, monitored and superbly well known by now by the CIEX.

All of this means that Citizens of Democratic Nations (CIDENA's) get ever better informed about the true nature of Islam. Or at least as good as any human can understand it.

It also means that if you want to be considered to speak the truth you have no right to tell the world what Islam means or does not mean. You only have the right to tell what your INTERPRETATION, VERSION of Islam is.

it also means, by now, that knowledgeable Muslima's like you, are now very negligent (If Allah HIMself is not by now totally negligent).

In that you do not write a clear interpretation of Islam that is compatible with the essential laws of Democracy. Or failing that, that you honestly admit that you reject such laws and favor highly contradicting so-called Divine laws instead.

Why don't you see that it is by now clear that Islam is anything but clear? That it's holy texts just as they are should be declared invalid, void, for vagueness, ambiguity, incompleteness, internal contradiction? Why don't you see that these holy texts are simply too vulnerable to misunderstanding?

And why don;t some Muslims write a clear Islam-interpretation, then form a Democratic Islamic organisation based on it, them put strict conditions upon joining that organisation instead of only uttering the Shahadah + complying to the 4 other pillars of Islam? Because all these misunderstanders of Islam can do that?

Writing that NEW ISLAM-interpretation is the responsibility for Muslims, because religion is a CHOICE, not a RACE. And it is gross negligence of Muslims not to do this, when now, in this era, they are clearly capable of it and when it is so badly needed.

paging mariam...

care to answer for your obvious lies???

The women poet was absolutely right, and her words echo through time to you, the individual mariam, please open your heart and mind and cleanse your conscience, or unconscious delusion:

‘You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?’

This is rare; we find one truth in those hateful writings.

You will not manipulate me and the posters here are too smart and educated to let your lies pass unrefuted.

You now fit into a special category of mine: "Keep talking, you reveal yourself". AND YOU HAVE. Your future posts now have a very specific context of deception, or at best, self delusion.

TOTAL AND ABSOLUTE FAIL.