"To restore the so-called family honour, it was decided by her father and uncle that she should die and her memory be erased."
The mainstream media has told us, whenever an honor killing has taken place in North America or Europe, that honor killing is a cultural practice that has nothing to do with Islam -- despite the fact that Muslims commit 91 percent of honor killings worldwide. What's more, a manual of Islamic law certified as a reliable guide to Sunni orthodoxy by Al-Azhar University, the most respected authority in Sunni Islam, says that "retaliation is obligatory against anyone who kills a human being purely intentionally and without right." However, "not subject to retaliation" is "a father or mother (or their fathers or mothers) for killing their offspring, or offspring's offspring." ('Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2).
In other words, someone who kills his child incurs no legal penalty under Islamic law. Nonetheless, the media drumbeat is constant: honor killings have nothing to do with Islam. Yet Syria recently scrapped a law limiting the length of sentences for honor killings, but "the new law says a man can still benefit from extenuating circumstances in crimes of passion or honour 'provided he serves a prison term of no less than two years in the case of killing.'" And in 2003 the Jordanian Parliament voted down on Islamic grounds a provision designed to stiffen penalties for honor killings. Al-Jazeera reported that "Islamists and conservatives said the laws violated religious traditions and would destroy families and values."
"Banaz Mahmod 'honour' killing cousins jailed for life," from the BBC, November 10 (thanks to Paul):
Two cousins who murdered a relative because her family disapproved of her boyfriend have been jailed for life.Banaz Mahmod, 20, an Iraqi Kurd from Mitcham, south London, was strangled in January 2006 and her body buried in a suitcase in Handsworth, Birmingham.
Mohammed Saleh Ali and Omar Hussain, both 28, received minimum jail terms of 22 and 21 years respectively.
The victim's father Mahmod Mahmod and uncle Ari Mahmod were jailed for life her murder in 2007.
Ali and Hussain - who were also found guilty of burying Miss Mahmod's body, conspiring to kidnap her boyfriend Rahmat Sulemani and threatening to kill him - fled to Iraq after the murder.
But the pair became the first suspects ever to be extradited to Britain from Iraq after Metropolitan Police detectives tracked them down.
Judge Brian Barker, the Common Serjeant of London, told them: "This was a barbaric and callous crime.
"To restore the so-called family honour, it was decided by her father and uncle that she should die and her memory be erased."
He told Ali and Hussain: "You were willing and active participants in what was an agonising death and a deliberately disrespectful disposal.
"You are hard and callous men who were quite prepared to assist others in killing in the so-called name of honour and who placed respect from the community above life, tolerance and understanding."...
This is a shame. It happens over and over again. And yet girls with textiles all over their head says that islam is freedom, and their friends, the people who "looooooooves" all human beings defends them against the terrible islamophobes - like me!
http://newstime.co.nz/honor-killings-to-offspring-are-allowed-in-islam-to-sharia-law-o2-4-reliance-of-the-traveller.html
Video: "Honor" killings are allowed by Sharia Law (o2.4,
‘Umdat al-Salik o1.1-2.)
And yet again Islam is the culprit and yet again it will not be blamed. Stupid world.
I would like to suggest that Ms. Geller & yourself, Mr. Spencer, to form a movement along the line of "Freedom for women/girls from Slavery of Islam"! Many Muslim women/girls are suffering in silence, andthis is unacceptable especially in the free West. It's like the free West is in the grip of Medieval Islamic conquest, but much more worst, since it's hidden under, ironically, the abuses of "human rights" of women/children to justify their enslavement! See the increasing tragic slavery of very young Muslim girls, in the West even, as absolute male's sexual property at - http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2010/06/oslo-little-girls-in-hijab.html
Oslo: Little girls in hijab
Starting from age 5 or 6, more and more little Norwegian girls are being sent to school with a hijab.
The Muslim headgear which covers the hair, is becoming a more common sight in elementary schools in Oslo, also in the 5-10 age group......"Do you have the impression that it's the decision of the girls themselves or their parents that they'll go with a hijab to school?"
"We assume it's the parents who make this decision. It's difficult for a six year old to make such a differentiation themselves," says Sjødin Neander.....
Let's have a quick competition for a new name, eh?
Honor killing does quite cut it. Except when it does.
So what can we call it?
Cult killing?
Religioucide?
It's a mistake for anti-Jihadists to harp on about honour killings. They don't really impact much on the lives of non-Muslims and Muslims can fairly point to all the horrible "jealousy" killings that happen in the free democracies.
Why are "honour" killings worse than "jealousy" killings? Answer: they aren't. And for every honour killing one could probably cite 10 jealousy or alchohol inspired killings.
This is a dead end for the anti-Sharia movement.
For more detailed reference on honor-based violence in the UK:
"Crimes of the Community"
(160-page pdf document)
http://www.socialcohesion.co.uk/files/1229624550_1.pdf
From above...Why are "honour" killings worse than "jealousy" killings? Answer: they aren't. And for every honour killing one could probably cite 10 jealousy or alchohol inspired killings.
I would expect that from DefenderofIslam...
Very few parents are so jealous of their children that they kill them...Jealousy killing and honor killing both have 'reasons' behind them...Alcohol killing have no reason...
Jealousy killings are emotional and not ideological...The jealousy killer cares little about his image and standing in the community...loss of honor never enters his mind...
But the Mahoundian father is under far different circumstances...When a father loses his honor because of his daughter, who does he lose it to? He loses it to Allah, and more directly to the Imam and his brothers down at the mosque...He loses it to the ummah...He becomes a disgrace...
The way to fix this and redeem himself and his family is an honor killing...
'This is a dead end for the anti-Sharia movement'.
No it's not, honor killing and its sister apostate killing, is the essence of sharia's evil, and another good reason to keep it away from your neighborhood...
"To restore the so-called family honour, it was decided by her father and uncle that she should die and her memory be erased."
......................
"...her memory be erased"—we have seen this before, as in the case of Aqsa Parvez, a teen-age victim of "honor killing" from Canada.
Her family not only neglected to provide the poor girl with a headstone, but they *refused* to give her a headstone even after Pamela Geller's group offered to pay for it.
So, clearly, this is not a matter of indigence—instead, it is a matter of wanting to erase the girl's memory as much as possible in a civilized society.
In Dar-al-Islam, they would simply have thrown her into some entirely unmarked hole.
"Memorializing Aqsa"
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2009/01/memorializing-aqsa.html
"And in 2003 the Jordanian Parliament voted down on Islamic grounds a provision designed to stiffen penalties for honor killings. "
Voted down tougher penalties on ISLAMIC GROUNDS...and what would those grounds be?
I thought "Muslima-cide" had nothing to do with Islam. Seems as if the bluff has been called...
Hello able seaman,
Yeah sure, I'm game.
Here are some possible new names for ISLAM CERTIFIED honor killings:
* Islamo slaughter
* Halal daughter murder
* Mohammedan girl child extermination rights/rites
* The Islamic killing off of impious Muslim daughters tradition
* Muslim male Islamo legalized killing of female properties
P.S., of course I don't at all mean to make light of this one of MANY evil Islamic laws/traditions...
I am an ex-Muslim with a website:
http://www.considerationsofacanadianex-muslim.org
Arab Israeli Knesset member seeks to ban use of the term "honor killing" in the public domain:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/israel-arab-mk-no-murders-should-ever-be-called-honor-killing-1.324027
"...Why are "honour" killings worse than "jealousy" killings? Answer: they aren't"
hmmmmm.....
a very suspicious answer/argument by someone with such a nametag...now that i think of it...you posted a comment yesterday on the 'netanyahu response to obama' thread, that sent alarm bells to my olfactory nerve (in other words it stunk).
mgoldberg replied to you appropriately @ 4;49pm
i have concured by replying to him @ 6;28pm.
so are you with us or against us? which one is it?
a premeditated murder condonned and sanctioned by this 'religion of piss' IS NOT THE SAME as a crime of passion that is a pavlovian reaction to an unexpected betrayal
notoshariah wrote:
It's a mistake for anti-Jihadists to harp on about honour killings...
This is a dead end for the anti-Sharia movement.
.....................
notoshariah has taken this position before. This, from July of this year:
Whilst opposing all that Shariah stands for, I think it is a mistake to try and focus too much on honour killings. In free democratic societies, we have the phenomenon of jealousy killings and divorce killings...probably more proportionately than are victims of honour killings in the Islamic world would be my guess.
Shariah must be opposed because it would destroy our freedom. But in terms of female safety it's not clear women are generally more likely to be murdered by partners in Muslim societies. I suspect not.
"Fox and Friends: Pamela Geller on SIOA honor killing awareness campaign and The Post-American Presidency"
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/07/fox-and-friends-pamela-geller-on-sioa-honor-killing-awareness-campaign-and-the-post-american-preside.html
.....................
Actually, as poster Dumbledore's Army points out, *women married to men of Muslim background were eight times more likely to be killed by their spouses than any other women in Britain*.
Here's another post from notoshariah, from August:
One could equally point to cases involving Christians, atheists, Hindus and so on who commit similar crimes or other crimes of murder. So what does that prove?...
So, all in all, I am afraid I don't feel this is the right focus.
"UK: Four Muslims found guilty in botched honor killing"
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/08/uk-four-muslims-found-guilty-in-botched-honor-killing.html
.....................
Strangely, this last was a case where the "honor killers", in a case of mistaken identity, murdered innocent bystanders. It would seem that this might certainly concern Infidels.
I could have cited many other examples.
There are a number of reasons why I believe, unlike notoshariah, that it is very important to talk about "honor killings" when speaking out against Jihad and Shari'ah.
Firstly, these are hideous crimes that often target the most vulnerable—and often target them for "crimes" such as *falling in love* or balking at adopting "Islamic norms" such as wearing Hijab. In addition, the victims are often children. In other words, we should condemn these killings on pure humanitarian grounds.
In addition, these crimes often target Infidels—or young, Westernized Muslim girls—as well. Clueless Infidel women who marry Muslims are especially vulnerable, as they frequently have no idea about the horrors of Muslim marriage or the existence of "honor killings". So—reporting on "honor killings" may serve as a warning to potential victims.
It also shows Infidels just what Islam truly is. If these are people who would murder their *own children* in the name of Islam for not wearing a headscarf, why would we think they would stop at the most horrific sort of savagery when it comes to us?
Like contemplating the worst forms of Jihad violence, becoming aware of "honor killings" *wakes people up*.
Moreover, "honor killing" *cannot* be divorced from Shari'ah law. What are the stoning sentences in Nigeria, in Somalia, in Iran, and in Pakistan's Northwest Territories but state-sanctioned "honor killings"?
This is the ultimate goal of every Jihadist—to impose full Shari'ah law on all of us. The goal is to see the entire world suffering under such barbarity. "Honor killing" victims in the West are just the canaries in the coalmine.
now step it up and deport their families.
Are 'jealousy' killings done on religious grounds?
Why would the Jordanian government object to harsher sentences for honor murders on Islamic grounds? Just asking.
Could it be that killers who do so for cleansing purposes are vindicated, their only crime is getting caught? Killing over jealousy is not sanctioned in the Judeo-Christian tradition.
Could it be that a Muslim woman's life is worth less than a man? You never did explain why the discussion of honor killings is a dead end for the anti-shariah movement. Dead end. Is that a pun?
Troll warning!
I called out No_to_shariah as a Muslim troll about a month ago. He/she responded to my post with a 'me..? sheesh...no' sort of reply.
It's clear he/she places posts selectively in an attempt to loosen the cohesion of those who will have no truck with Islam in any form or fashion.
So-called honor killings are a violent expression of Islam's characterization of women as being 'defective in reasoning' and therefore not able to decide correctly for themselves who they want to spend their time/lives with.
No_to_shariah is a Muslim troll. Take his/her posts with a pinch of salt.
"To restore the so-called family honour, it was decided by her father and uncle that she should die and her memory be erased."
Don't worry little Banaz. We will never forget you.
And as to "jealousy killings" they go against the grain of the consciences of those who commit them. Not so with "honor killings". Muslims who are threatened feel just ducky about them.
Isabella the Crusader wrote:
Don't worry little Banaz. We will never forget you.
..................
I agree with you, Isabella—we cannot let her killers achieve their goal that "her memory be erased".
Here is a picture of Banaz Mahmod—a beautiful young woman:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1294/542130239_8a6ae9b975.jpg
On the subject of giving a name to these killings, how about a little alliteration to help make the name more memorable?
Clitoral control killings. (CCT)
Relevant to this article; a documentary on Dutch TV on wednesday 10 nov.: "code rood: eerwraak"; meaning Code Red; Honour-Revenge (Honour-Killing?).
Testimony from 4 girls, totally disguised, voice altered, that literally testified their life was in danger because of honour-violations according to families.
It was great, but an expert on honour-revenge, as well as the maker of this great documentary, literally said; This has nothing to do with Islam"!
Now, well, they apparently showed a case of Sikh honour-killing and also there was mention of an Iraqi Christian boy who behaved in the honour-revenge-way. But the cases all were about girls descending from immigrants out of Islamic countries or India.
Even if not all honour-revenge-cases are from Islamic background, then still it would behoove honour-revenge-experts to point out the detrimental Islamic exacerbating influence. I am trying to be deliberately mild, diplomatic about it.
But to me it's shameless, stupid, cowardly, dhimmi-like to say that "Religion" or Islam has nothing to do with Honour-killing!
I'm surprised they were ever prosecuted a all, given that it has become virtually imposible to investigate muslim crime due to political correctness: https://www.bedfordshire.police.uk/access_info/foi/disclosure_log/2010/march_10/Response%20Letter%202010-00207.pdf
Muslims are easily the most avoidable minorities to have in any country. (If they are in majority, you’re dead! So I’m not touching that part)
In the UK the number of churches have gone down from 50200 in 1980 to 47600 in 2005. In contrast, the number of registered mosques in the UK has increased from 4 in 1960 to 314 in 1985 to 618 in 2002. As of 2004 there were 1550 mosques in the UK database.
In the period 2002 to 2004 there is a dramatic increase in the number of mosques. According to various reports at least 50 churches have been converted to mosques (I assume legally). This is the period of the Tony Blair government. There are currently 1970 mosques listed in the mosques directory of Britain (http://mosques.muslimsinbritain.org)
Minorities do tend to organise themselves more than the majority due to various reasons. Much of this organisation is for a sense of togetherness in a foreign country, to practice their own customs and traditions and to share common values from back home. Most of it is peaceful and does not offend anyone in any way or break any laws.
The problem with muslims as compared to other minorities is the crimes, violence, mindless protests, unwillingness to adapt to local laws and traditions. If all that is tolerable, then they still have this deep rooted desire to impose Islam on everyone else. Hard statistics alone would wake up a sleeping person. Yet British politicians prefer to live in denial and in deep slumber.
Perhaps when Enoch Powell made his “Rivers Of Blood” speech in 1968 this is what he had in mind. Where this is Islam and where there are muslims, the rivers of blood will eventually flow.
Captain Nemo -
I could cite lots of horrible examples of non-Muslim Westerners who, with premeditation, kill their children in revenge for a spouse seeking to end a partnership. So, let's not run away with the idea that the Western equivalent lacks premeditation.
Of course one can point to honour killings as an example of Islam's baleful influence on social conduct. But it is a mistake to make it a main plank of the anti-Shariah movement.
Two things concerning this one case of honor-related family execution stand out: that they were jailed for life showing that there is agreement with Danish practice, and that they were - surprise-surprise - Kurds.
Honor-related family execution I would not like to say is better or worse than a murder committed in a fit of jealousy and desperation or in a haze of alcohol. But it certainly is different: it involves long-term planning often involving lies and deceptions, a somewhat general agreement that this is the right way and the only way above the law of the land so we sometimes see non-family involved in the extraordinarily cold-blooded planning and execution, the individual completely subjugated. But most of all it involves your own flesh and blood. Your own flesh and blood! Who has walked beside you, lived with you and laughed with you. But always under an invisible threat of death.
There was a case in Sweden once - Kurds again - in which the head of the family approached the police and told them it had been decided that a daughter had not behaved and therefore was declared unwanted in their city by the family, and would the police please help keep her away, please? He meant it not as some sort of warning that the rest of the family were against her, no he in all seriousness expected the police to take action and drive her out of town.
This is for the latest NotoSharia muslim troll's entry:
"...lots of horrible examples of non-Muslim Westerners who, with premeditation, kill their children..."
All those killings you can cite are against the norms, customs, morality and laws of the western nations and maost of them end up with life in prison or even the electric chair. In fact this is the case in all societies on the planet. Except muslim societies regardless of location. It is written in black and white in your sharia and koran texts. So shut the F*** up. We know the convoluted and evil logic you muslim murderers use to justify killing young people just because they fall in the natural process called love - ever heard of it? The perpetrators go scott free in muslim societies. They don't elsewhere. Your gloating posts to the contrary.
captain nemo
Totally agree with your judgement regarding 'notoshariah', my captain. I was also alarmed at his/her postings on the Netanyahu thread you mention and noted how effectively you and mgoldberg dismantled his/her position. Well said.
Notoshariah's pathetic attempts to discourage any criticism of the most foul Islamic practises amounts to nothing more than a load of blabbering obfuscation.
It's obvious to all of us here that so-called 'honour' killings within Islam are carried out in adherence to a centuries old, clearly codified, religiously and legally sanctioned model of 'pious' behaviour, backed by all the mechanisms of civil law, religion and state within Dar-al-Islam. It's such an indisputable pointer towards extreme gender-apartheid, is so clearly a deeply ingrained misogynistic habit, and occurs at such an epidemic level within Islam, that it becomes quite logically an obvious main plank in our anti-jihad arguments. This is so blatant, so screamingly obvious, that if notoshariah somehow doesn't get it then they must be either:
A. Not reading from the same page as the rest of us and desperately need to do a lot more reading to catch up.
B. A Muslim troll, attempting to deflect the weak-minded from any clear analysis of the ugliest facets of Islam.
or:
C. A Janissary, a non-Muslim jihad-enabler and Islamic apologist, attempting to deflect any criticism of his/her Muslim masters.
Nothing less than a clear retraction and reversal by notoshariah of their attitude towards both Israel and 'honour' killings could convince me that they are anything but an unalloyed ideological enemy, transparently sly and worth nothing but our utter contempt.
On the up-side, I see we now have a community of people who see through notoshariah - duh_swami, gravenimage, Medina, Buraq, Mulakush as well as you, me and mgoldberg.
As time goes by I expect to see this community grow.
"paranoid psychotic infanticide" is probably the correct clinical term?
"It's a mistake for anti-Jihadists to harp on about honour killings. They don't really impact much on the lives of non-Muslims ...
Yes it does...because Non Muslims care more about life than the Muslims do...Yes it does , especially when it occurs in their neighborhoods and they realize this it how Muslims want them to live...Yes it does, especially when they realize such actions as honor killing are condoned and sanctioned by the religion of Islam..
Non Muslims are getting better at recognizing the threat that Islam presents to their lives, their freedom, and to their countries. And Mulsim really hate it when the INfidels know the truth about Islam....Muslims, of course, would prefer that the Infidels would just ingore the Islamic sanctioned "honor Killings" and just keep their mouths shut about them..After all Islam wants to silence all open discussion, open truthful discussion, and all critizism of Islam..Muslims really hate it when they have to keep denying anything they do is based on their religion, when, in fact, everything they do is based on their religion...and they know it , and the Infidels are getting better at knowing it too...
Jihad Watch commenters Darcy and Champ used to refer to it as "daughter slaughter". I thought that was fairly apt.
"I could cite lots of horrible examples of non-Muslim Westerners who, with premeditation, kill their children in revenge for a spouse seeking to end a partnership."
Then please do so. Put up, or shut up.
It is difficult to use words to express how much their primitive beliefs and hurt feelings anger the rest of the world. We seek to change them - but it is hopeless!
Or, (D) Notosharia is just thick as a brick ?
I hope these guys have thier honor violated in prison :-)
Prison rape would be an appropriate response for these guys.
The UK needs to bring back the death penalty.
@notoshariah--
It's a mistake for anti-Jihadists to harp on about honour killings. They don't really impact much on the lives of non-Muslims and Muslims can fairly point to all the horrible "jealousy" killings that happen in the free democracies.
this would be true if our only agenda was for your namesake or simply anti-jihadist resistance. But I would hope the others on this site feel similar to me in that Islam is evil; it kills women like this in the name of religion, and it's damn relevant to any argument one might make about Islam.
@notoshariah--
It's a mistake for anti-Jihadists to harp on about honour killings. They don't really impact much on the lives of non-Muslims and Muslims can fairly point to all the horrible "jealousy" killings that happen in the free democracies.
this would be true if our only agenda was for your namesake or simply anti-jihadist resistance. But I would hope the others on this site feel similar to me in that Islam is evil; it kills women like this in the name of religion, and it's damn relevant to any argument one might make about Islam.
@notoshariah--
It's a mistake for anti-Jihadists to harp on about honour killings. They don't really impact much on the lives of non-Muslims and Muslims can fairly point to all the horrible "jealousy" killings that happen in the free democracies.
this would be true if our only agenda was for your namesake or simply anti-jihadist resistance. But I would hope the others on this site feel similar to me in that Islam is evil; it kills women like this in the name of religion, and it's damn relevant to any argument one might make about Islam.
Notoshariah:
"I could cite lots of horrible examples of non-Muslim Westerners who, with premeditation, kill their children in revenge for a spouse seeking to end a partnership."
Somehow you seem to say: Hey, honour-killings are also occurring a lot among non-Muslims, only there they are called "Crime Passionel" or jealousy-murders or such. You equate the 2, like many Muslims and Islam-defenders do.
But I would like to point out that in every society at all times there were/ are such criminal acts as killing spouses and children for crime-passionel/ jealousy-reasons, so also in Islamic societies and communities.
And is in this situation Islam an ameliorating, beneficial factor or an exacerbating, detrimental one? Almost all of us think the latter, I suppose.
And that that it is because of the profoundly un-democratic Islamic teachings about women and their rights and place in society.
And these teachings make these honour-killing crimes very relevant in our own "Jihad" against Islam for the sake of our essential Democratic laws and values.
@ notoshariah
It's a mistake for anti-Jihadists to harp on about honour killings.
I'm thinkin it was a mistake for notoshariah to come out of the jihadi closet in this environment....lol The emperor has lost its clothes... bare nekkid islame is never pretty... therefore I submit to the court as evidence EXHIBIT #1... the burqa! Sometimes I think Mo' was really on to something in inventing that little gem! But as for the muzlim man, might I suggest 10 ft of sand as a head covering!?
Kudos on flushing out the pretenders peeps!
The force of "Spencerman" is strong with these obie wan! ;)