Islamic apologists in the U.S. routinely deny that Islamic law mandates that apostates from Islam be murdered. Unfortunately for the apostates, the facts are otherwise.
Muhammad, the prophet of Islam and supreme example of conduct for the Muslim (cf. Qur'an 33:21), said: "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, then kill him." (Bukhari 9.84.57)
The Tafsir al-Qurtubi, a classic and thoroughly mainstream exegesis of the Qur'an, says this about Qur'an 2:217: "Scholars disagree about whether or not apostates are asked to repent. One group say that they are asked to repent and, if they do not, they are killed. Some say they are given an hour and others a month. Others say that they are asked to repent three times, and that is the view of Malik. Al-Hasan said they are asked a hundred times. It is also said that they are killed without being asked to repent."
All the schools of Islamic jurisprudence all teach that a sane adult male who leaves Islam must be killed. They have some disagreements about what must he done with other types of people who leave Islam, but they have no disagreement on that.
The internationally renowned Sheikh Yusuf al-Qaradawi, who has been praised as a "reformist" by pseudo-academic John Esposito, has said this about Islamic apostasy law: "That is why the Muslim jurists are unanimous that apostates must be punished, yet they differ as to determining the kind of punishment to be inflicted upon them. The majority of them, including the four main schools of jurisprudence (Hanafi, Maliki, Shafi`i, and Hanbali) as well as the other four schools of jurisprudence (the four Shiite schools of Az-Zaidiyyah, Al-Ithna-`ashriyyah, Al-Ja`fariyyah, and Az-Zaheriyyah) agree that apostates must be executed."
"Two Afghan converts to Christianity risk the death penalty," from Asia News, November 29 (thanks to C. Cantoni):
Kabul (AsiaNews) - Two Afghans accused of converting to Christianity could face the death penalty, a prosecuting lawyer said on Sunday. Musa Sayed, 45, and Ahmad Shah, 50, are being detained in the Afghan capital awaiting trial, the prosecutor in charge of western Kabul, Din Mohammad Quraishi, said."They are accused of conversion to another religion, which is considered a crime under Islamic law. If proved, they face the death penalty or life imprisonment," Quraishi said. Sayed, a Red Cross (ICRC) employee, has already confessed. There is also "proof" against Shah, Quraishi explained.
Sayed and Shah were arrested in late May and early June, days after local television broadcast footage of men reciting Christian prayers in Farsi and being baptised, apparently in a house in Kabul. The TV station also showed some people engaged in proselytising, which is banned in the Muslim country.
The ICRC's spokesman in Kabul, Bijan Frederic Farnoudi, confirmed that Sayed worked for the organisation since 1995. He also said that he was able to visit him in prison.
The government launched its own investigation into the matter and suspended two aid groups, Norwegian Church Aid (a Protestant organisation) and Church World Service of the US (which includes Protestants, Orthodox and Anglicans), after the TV station reported two of their members were proselytising.
The Afghan constitution, adopted after the fall of the Islamic Taliban in late 2001, forbids conversion to another religion from Islam and in theory can sentence those found guilty to death. However, no one has been executed in recent years for converting.
Fr Giuseppe Moretti, parish priest at the only Catholic church in Afghanistan, a chapel inside the Italian Embassy in Kabul, told AsiaNews that he knew nothing about the affair. He was certain that they did not convert to Catholicism."No one in the country was baptised by a Catholic priest because proselytising is banned by law," he said.
"The Catholic Church has been present in the country since 1923 with a mandate to take care of members of the international Catholic community living here. It has always respected that [principle] to the letter."
As for the anti-conversion law, Fr Moretti has nothing to add, except to reiterate that the Catholic community has always respected it.
"The Little Sisters of Jesus of Charles de Foucault, the Sisters of Mother Teresa and the Sisters of the Interreligious Community are present here, and they too respect the ban. We bear witness to our faith through our commitment and our lives," he said.
But............But............But.........."there is no compulsion in religion". Oh, that's right - it only applies to infidels trying to convert believers. Whew! For a moment there, I thought that Islam might be in trouble.
Islam has NO power to transform lives that's why it must kill people who try and leave it, kind of like a drug gang or mafia.
Killing a few Muslims is one way the Islamic clerics keep the rest of the Islamic sheep in line...Islam thrives on fear..
So, it this the what the west ends up with for spending billions of dollars, and many lives?
Why are we wasting our resources and young lives in this barbaric land. We can never reform these barbarians!!! Just bring our troops home. Next time the barbarians attack us - just nuke them along with their favorite worship places!! Should nt worry about what the rest of the barbarians think.
Fr Giuseppe Moretti, parish priest at the only Catholic church in Afghanistan, a chapel inside the Italian Embassy in Kabul, told AsiaNews that he knew nothing about the affair. He was certain that they did not convert to Catholicism.
"No one in the country was baptised by a Catholic priest because proselytising is banned by law," he said.
"The Catholic Church has been present in the country since 1923 with a mandate to take care of members of the international Catholic community living here. It has always respected that [principle] to the letter."
As for the anti-conversion law, Fr Moretti has nothing to add, except to reiterate that the Catholic community has always respected it.
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I do realize Father Moretti is in a *very* difficult position, and that his first care must be protecting his Catholic parishioners.
And yet, he is here not only throwing his fellow (non-Catholic) Christian organizations under the bus—bad enough—but is abandoning these Christian converts to the "tender mercies" of the Islamic state, without so much as a word of condemnation of apostasy laws, or a word of encouragement or care to its victims.
Exactly!!! Islam has only survived by threats, intimidation, killing of their own when they get out of line. Remove the threat and intimidation and murder, and see how many Muslims remain Muslims. That is why they don't allow Muslims and non-Muslims to discuss their religion and find out the truth about Islam. The gestapo imams keep Muslims under control!!
True, Islam is a mafia like criminal enterprise - the similarities are astounding. But our MSM and the leaders don't see it and continue to pander to Islam/Muslims!!
As an ItaloAmerican Roman Catholic, Father's comments filled me with sadness and chagrin. Yet, I comment from relative safety while I know he and the nuns are targets anytime they set foot outside the embassy and maybe - considering Iran 1979 -- even WITHIN the Italian embassy.
I was really hoping that Pope Benny 16 had a more realistic assessment of Islam than his predecessor and would change the rules of engagement. However the recent Synod makes me think that the Vatican bureaucrats who lean Left will continue to function as useful idiots for the false prophet and his false god.
It is the fault of the West. The crazy idea that we could bring freedom for ordinary moms and dads in Muslim tribal societies ruled by sharia made some confused Muslims think that this freedom included religious freedom.
Of course the Afghan converts to Christianity should not be executed; Bush and the useful idiots should! ;-)
It reminds me of the matter concerning the US Army taking the extraordinary step of preventing the ordinary foot soldier from being sent Bibles in one or the other Afghan language.
You will observe that these apostates are not naive teenagers or hot-headed twenty-year olds.
"Musa Sayed, 45, and Ahmad Shah, 50,"
These are men of riper years. In the west they would be thought middle-aged. In a country like Afghanistan where life expectancies are lower than in the West, they would have to be considered old.
If they converted recently, they did so as adults. If they did convert as teenagers or young adults, then it was not a 'phase'; they have persevered and kept the faith, despite God alone knows what, even through the period when the Taliban ruled Afghanistan.
I will note, too, that many of those arrested for apostasy from Islam to Christianity in Iran are not young but rather in their 30s, 40s and 50s.
"I do realize Father Moretti is in a *very* difficult position, and that his first care must be protecting his Catholic parishioners."
"And yet, he is here not only throwing his fellow (non-Catholic) Christian organizations under the bus—bad enough—but is abandoning these Christian converts to the "tender mercies" of the Islamic state, without so much as a word of condemnation of apostasy laws, or a word of encouragement or care to its victims."
Good points.
The evil and barbaric apostasy laws of Islamic countries must be constantly challenged. Truly moderate Muslims will prove they are moderates if they can change or remove this barbaric law.
Come on moderate Muslims, prove that you are moderates! You are the majority, you claim. Can you not then, with your words and actions, change this evil, demonic, and barbaric law? Prove that you are moderates!
In any case, even if this evil and barbaric law stands, it will take courageous Christian martyrs (i.e., "martyr" in the Christian sense, not the diabolical Islamic sense) and Christian saints to spread the gospel in these devil-infested Islamic countries.
After all, the command of the Lord Jesus is "Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations," (Matthew 28:19). And with regards to spreading the gospel in places where it is forbidden by civil or local authorities, St. Peter and the apostles reminds all Christians that "We must obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29).
"We must obey God rather than men." (Acts 5:29).
The problem is how do we know what is the will of God?
Apostasy (from Greek "apostasia" meaning a defection or revolt) is the formal disaffiliation from, or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person.
Many religious groups and some states punish apostates. Apostates may be shunned by the members of their former religious group or subjected to formal or informal punishment. This may be the official policy of the religious group or may be the action of its members.
A Christian church may in certain circumstances excommunicate the apostate, while some Abrahamic scriptures (Judaism: Deuteronomy 13:6–10) and Islam: al-Bukhari, demand the death penalty for apostates. The death penalty is still applied by some Muslim states (such as Iran), but not in Christianity or Judaism.
The Christian understanding of apostasy is "a willful falling away from, or rebellion against, Christian truth. Apostasy is the rejection of Christ by one who has been a Christian...." "Apostasy is the antonym of conversion; it is deconversion."
The Greek noun apostasia (rebellion, abandonment, state of apostasy, defection) is found only twice in the New Testament (Acts 21:21; 2 Thessalonians 2:3). However, "the concept of apostasy is found throughout Scripture." The Dictionary of Biblical Imagery states that "There are at least four distinct images in Scripture of the concept of apostasy. All connote an intentional defection from the faith." These images are: Rebellion; Turning Away; Falling Away; Adultery.
Because Islam see itself in a perpetual war against the infidel world apostasy is like defection during battle to the enemy. This understanding of apostasy as a kind of treason is emphasized by the fact that religion and politics is one and the same in Islam.
The traditional view, that apostates should be killed, has been rejected by modern Muslim scholars (e.g. Hasan al-Turabi), who argue that the hadith in question should be taken to apply only to political betrayal of the Muslim community, rather than to apostasy in general. These scholars regard apostasy as a serious crime, but argue for the freedom to convert to and from Islam without legal penalty, and consider the Hadith (quoted by Robert Spencer) as insufficient justification for capital punishment.
Today apostasy is illegal in most Muslim countries, and subject in some to the death penalty. Executions for apostasy are rare, but allowed in many Muslim countries such as Iran and Saudi Arabia. Apostasy is legal in secular Muslim countries such as Turkey.
The hadith (Bukhari 9.84.57) is quoted both by supporters of the death penalty and critics of Islam. Some Islamic scholars point out it is important to understand the hadith in its proper historical context: it was written when the nascent Muslim community in Medina was fighting for its existence, and the enemies of Islam encouraged rebellion and discord within the community. At that time any defection would have had serious consequences for the Muslims, and the hadith may well be about treason, rather than just apostasy. Under the terms of the Treaty of Hudaybiyyah any Muslim who returned to Mecca was not to be returned, terms which the Prophet accepted. Despite this historical point, Islamic law as currently practiced does not allow freedom of religion.
But the problem (according to all the leading schools of jurisprudence) is that the instructions in the Qur'an and the Sunnah of the Prophet are not answers to specific historical events but eternal and unchangeable by man valid for all times.
By the twelth century, it was thought that there was no need for further interpretation or elaboration of the Qur'an and the Sunnah, just application; the door to ijtihad (the autorization for scholars individually to interpret the sacred texts through ra'y, personal judgement) closed. After the fixation of the law, taqlid (the opposite of ijtihad), or imitation of the recognized rulings, became the norm.
The door to ijtihad was shut so decisively that even efforts to open it in the early nineteenth century were rebuked. When Muhammad Ali as-Sanusi (1787-1859), known as the Grand Sanusi, attempted to reopen the gates to ijtihad, he was rebuked in a typical fatwa by the mufti of Cairo, who said, "For no one denies the fact that the dignity of ijtihad has long disapeared and that at the present time no man has attained this degree of learning. He who believed himself to be a mujtahid (a scholar qualified to exercise ijtihad) would be under the of his hallucinations and of the devil."
Untill the gates of itjihad are reopened and reinterpretation based upon reason is allowed, there is no way to reform Islam and make it compatible with democracy, the rule of law and freedom of religion.
However, cultural/ideological defection called treason, is still (in principle) punisable by death in the US. By the Federal statutes treason (18 U.S.C. 2381) is still a capital offense. In state law treason is still a capital offense in Arkansas, California, Colorado, Georgia, Illinois, Louisiana, Mississippi, Missouri, and Washington.
But no American citizen has been executed solely for the act of treason since 1862. The Rosenbergs were convicted for espionage, not treason and executed in 1953.
Ole Hartling wrote:
Apostasy (from Greek "apostasia" meaning a defection or revolt) is the formal disaffiliation from, or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person...
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Thank you for that thoroughly bloodless treatise on apostasy, Mr. Hartling. Now, if only Islam were similarly bloodless in its approach to the issue, there would be no problem...
""These are men of riper years. In the west they would be thought middle-aged. In a country like Afghanistan where life expectancies are lower than in the West, they would have to be considered old.
If they converted recently, they did so as adults. If they did convert as teenagers or young adults, then it was not a 'phase'; they have persevered and kept the faith, despite God alone knows what, even through the period when the Taliban ruled Afghanistan.
I will note, too, that many of those arrested for apostasy from Islam to Christianity in Iran are not young but rather in their 30s, 40s and 50s.""
They do knew the dangers of converting to another religion like Christianism. No doubt about it. They could remain nominal Muslims and fight the radicals in long terms or wait and then convert to Christianism...people in their 50s could believe that somehow either the Coalition forces would moderate Islam at some degree or that Afganistan would go back to a pre-Taliban-alike period. They understood that all these things were wishful thoughts. But they did. They converted. These two guys understand that there was another way to improve things. They could even migrate or suicide themselves. But they prefer being a Christian, daily abuse, prison, torture and possible death rather than Islam.
That speaks volumes.
Let's lay it on the line. A US official, whether civilian or military, who makes deals with Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, et al, in the name of the American people, is following an illegal order. As a soldier, I was trained to not follow such orders, such as if a higher ranking officer were to tell me to shoot unarmed civilians or steal property. It is a court martial offense to follow such orders, no matter if the President himself ordered it. So should it be to cooperate with these vile Islamic governments which denigrate and murder non-Muslims at will, openly, by sharia law and legal code.
US officers should feel shame for not refusing orders to work with Islamists. Yes, I mean in Iraq and Afghanistan also. These are Islamofascist governments which have genocide of non-Muslims designed into their vile constitutions.
Officers, are you suicidal, treasonous, or just plain stupid?
If you want to help the persecuted,in this case Christians,donate to the organization that is helping some of them,the BARNABAS FUND(director:PATRICK SOOKHDOE,Christian,ex-Mulsim).He has written "GLOBAL JIHAD"(2010):
His organization is here:
http://barnabasfund.org/
Just adding to the posting by minoria.
I have heard Sookhdeo speak. He is excellent.
His book 'Global Jihad' is very good; it complements and reinforces Spencer's work nicely. (In fact, I think Sookhdeo contributed at least one article to Spencer's anthology "The Myth of Islamic Tolerance").
His other books - "A People Betrayed" (which is a history of the church in Pakistan), "Islam in Britain", "Faith, Power and Territory" and - most apposite of all to the subject of this thread, "Freedom to Believe: Challenging Islam's Apostasy Law" - are all worth reading.
To be Muslim and dhimmi is to "submit" to Islamic rule. Submission is passive. Passive is seen by the West as "peaceful." To convert from Islam is punishable by death, thus passive Muslims and dhimmis are trapped in Islam against their will. Whether Muslims fight (jihad) for their privileges under Sharia law (to plunder, rape, murder, etc.) or passively enjoy their privilege and support others who do the actual jihad, Islam is a self-perpetuating social system and supremacist war machine. Islam, as enforced by Sharia law, should be regarded with the same "tolerance" as satanism and Nazism and White Supremacy and the mafia, which "beliefs" are permitted but which accompanying/sanctioned/required "crimes" are not tolerated.