Minnesota: Santa Claus banned from Head Start classes to avoid offending Muslims

Thanks, buraq, for that link to the global warming skit. It was clever, funny and very well done. I'm pretty much resolved that the five greatest frauds in all of man's history are the following (in no particular order): Islam, the United Nations, man-made global warming, fascism and Marxism. Of course, there are other candidates for this infamous list, and reasonable minds can differ about which should be put in the top five, but, nonetheless, imagine a world that never experienced any of these five frauds I mentioned. How could it not be a better world for such absences?

Rich wrote:

PS I was unfamiliar with the term "Dhimmitude" and Dhimmi. I am sure there will be many others who are also.

From what I could gather I would define a Dhimmi as a non-muslim, boot-licking, sycophant-apologist of Islam. A person who though ignorant of the teachings of Islam defends it blindly to the extent of comparing his own beliefs unfavourably with Islam.
............................

You are essentially correct, Rich—for the meaning of the term as commonly used here. Dhimmitude has even darker roots, though—this dates from the 7th century Pact of Umar, where in exchange for "protection" (dhimma), non-Muslims under Islam had to agree to incredibly oppressive second-class citizenship. As you might imagine, this "protection" was—Mafia-style—protection from the very people offering the protection.

Here's the horribly oppressive Pact of Umar:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/source/pact-umar.html

You will notice many of the restrictions are on non-Muslims openly celebrating any religious or cultural occasions that might "offend" the Muslims.

If a dhimmi—anywhere—broke a tenet of the pact, or was even suspected of doing such a thing—then the pact was forfeit for the whole community. That is why, despite this "protection", Infidel populations in Dar-al-Islam are always insecure, and are subject to periodic bloody rampages by Muslims.

Probably the definitive text on the subject is Dhimmitude by Bat Ye'or.

Historically, dhimmitude was only offered to "People of the Book"—Jews and Christians. When Islam conquered Hindus, Zoroastrians and others, though, the Muslim invaders simply could not convert or kill them all, and so essentially wound up treating these other groups as dhimmis, as well.

While—nominally—no "modern" Muslim nation has imposed full, organized dhimmitude, when you hear about Christians in Indonesia being prevented from repairing churches, or apostate Muslims in Egypt being attacked for converting to Christianity, or Hindu pilgrims being waylaid at shrines in Pakistan if they are insufficiently discrete in practicing their rites, this is all the imposition of dhimmitude on Infidels.

It is, as well, as you have noted, cringing behavior on the part of non-Muslims vis-a-vis Islam.

Now, if such dhimmitude is being practiced by a threatened Christian in Lebanon, or a threatened Sikh in Pakistan, or a threatened animist in Nigeria, it is unpleasant to watch—but it is understandable. It may be all that is saving the dhimmi's life, or that of his family, or of his community.

But when you find—as you increasingly do—ipso facto dhimmitude practiced by Westerners in the misguided name of multiculturalism or "political correctness", it is madness.

This would be foolish behavior with any group, but with Muslims—with their savage history of Muslim supremacy, conquest, and the imposition of dhimmitude on Infidels—it is utterly suicidal.

You can bet that Muslims do not see such caving as happened in Minnesota as evidence of "sensitivity", but as evidence of Infidel weakness and acknowledgment of Muslim superiority.

MINNESOTA could have Christmas Carols, and Christmas Trees, and maybe even a Nativity Scene, even a live one, if it had the oil supplies, and our oil wealth that Dubai and the rest have, and we don't have as much of the wealth to keep Minnesota, warm with the example of the one true Living God of the Bible, and the warmth and hope of Christmas, and the extra warmth and hope for the young's dazzled eyes, of Santa Clause, too. The Birth of Christ led to many good things, along the way with very few bad, by some misinterpratations. Even the atheists, can have some hope, with the existence of the Judeo Christian and other beliefs that have goodness as their basis, as opposed to the oposite with the evil cult of the world, islam!

There is nothing in this world or universe that doesn't offend Muslims!!!! They are offended by their own coreligionists!! That is why they are in perpetual rage!!! Rage against everybody!!!

"From what I could gather I would define a Dhimmi as a non-muslim, boot-licking, sycophant-apologist of Islam. A person who though ignorant of the teachings of Islam defends it blindly to the extent of comparing his own beliefs unfavourably with Islam.

Well, yes, dhimmi is a term widely used to refer to such individuals, but from the historical perspective it is incorrect. Originally Islamic law prescribes a status of dhima (dhimmitude), or political, social and legal inferiority and submission to non-moslem residents of a moslem land.
Dhimmis in most case Jews and Christians original inhabitants of lands invaded by moslems were given freedom of worship on condition that they will pay a special tax (jazzyia) and assume a submissive, inferior position in all their interaction with moslem state, law and population.

Here is an excerpt from "The Dhimmitude of the West" by Mark Durie.

Dhimmitude is an Islamic phenomenon. It defines the condition of submissive surrender to Islamic rule, yet without conversion to the Islamic faith. Under classical theological formulations developed in the first centuries of Islam, the region where Islam rules is known as Dar al-Islam 'the House of Islam'.

From the very beginning the Dar al-Islam included many non-Muslims, indeed they were normally in the majority after initial conquest. Based on the example of Muhammad's dealings with the conquered Jewish farmers of Khaybar, Fadak, Tayma and Wadi-l Qura, the institution of the dhimma or 'pact of protection' was developed to provide for those who refused to convert to Islam. The dhimma was granted by the conquerors as one possible outcome of military jihad. It assured the vanquished an institutional legal framework which guaranteed their religious freedom, and determined their social and economic place in the Islamic state. In return the people of the pact, or dhimmis, were required to pay tribute in perpetuity to the Muslim Community (Umma), and to adopt a position of humble servitude to the Umma. ....

Within the Islamic state, all non-Muslims who are not objects of war are considered to be dhimmis - communities who are allowed to exist within the Dar al-Islam by virtue of surrender under the conditions of a dhimmi pact. These are the permanently conquered peoples of Islam.

The historian Bat Ye'or has documented the social, political, economic and religious conditions of dhimmi communities - Jews and Christians - in the Middle East. It is a sad history of dispossession and decline. Legal provisions applying to dhimmis ensured their humiliation and inferiority, and to this was added the often crippling taxes which were allocated to support the Muslim community. Under conditions of dhimmitude there was also a constant risk of jihad conditions being reinvoked - of massacre and dispossession - if the dhimmi community is considered to have failed to live up to the conditions of their pact. History records many examples where dhimmis were attacked by their fellow Muslim citizens on such grounds, for example the massacres of the Jews of Granada in 1066, and of the Christians of Damascus in 1860.
...dhimmitude is not only manifested in legal and social structures, but in a psychology of inferiority, a will to serve, which the dominated community adopts in self-preservation.

"The law required from dhimmis a humble demeanor, eyes lowered, a hurried pace. They had to give way to Muslims in the street, remain standing in their presence and keep silent, only speaking to them when given permission. They were forbidden to defend themselves if attacked, or to raise a hand against a Muslim on pain of having it amputated. Any criticism of the Koran or Islamic law annuled the protection pact. In addition the dhimmi was duty-bound to be grateful, since it was Islamic law that spared his life."

As you see dhimmis of the moslem lands were, and are, defensless victims terrorized into submission by fear of provoking moslem violence.

Not so the Westerners who you identify as "non-muslim, boot-licking, sycophant-apologist of Islam.

The difference between the former and the latter is analogous to the difference between a poor rape victim and a shameless, bragging whore.

It is very unfortunate and insulting to the former that both are referred to as "dhimmis"

You're an idiot. You really are. Israeli Jews opposing Christmas displays, dumb and petty though it is, are not ever going to use violence to prevent such displays. Their objections will merely be verbal protests. Big deal.

If all Muslims did when offended (and how easily offended Muslims are), were to issue statements against the perceived offense, no one would be concluding (as millions upon millions in ever increasing numbers now are) that Islam is a threat to liberty. BUT, Muslims, unlike virtually all Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Confucianists, Taoists, Jainists, Babists, agnostics, atheists, etc., are only too ready to use violence to have their specific religious assumptions not tampered with or mocked (how juvenile). It's the violence part, stupid, which is assuring that, as every year goes by, the bulk of earth's population becomes more and more sickened by the great burden which goes by the name of Islam.

Get this? No, I doubt you will. You're an obfuscator of the truth and in no way one who enlightens. You're tedious---and wrong.

And where exactly in this article was the part that Muslims threatened violence against the school?

K then.

We are in agreement that using violence to advance the objectives of religious fundamentalists is a problem. This is not one of those instances. If Muslims want to stand up for their rights here in America the way every other group does then that's PERFECT. That's exactly the sort of move you should be applauding. Unfortunately, this really isn't about all that it's a desire to tar and feather every single Muslim. Even if we're "good" Muslims like that "Uncle Abu" who did "the Third Jihad" for Raphael Shore you'll still claim it's all merely a front to disguise our true evil objectives.

Of course, how exactly are we to reach people who are at the present time actively engaged in conspiracy theory?

Mobamad, because we're already in agreement with the fact that religious fanatics are a significant problem AND that there is a significant problem with these fanatics especially in Islam today. What I don't agree with is that it is somehow always going to be a unique feature of Islam while glossing over very real problems with other terrorists during the 20th century.

These are the kind of issues where one can easily find members of other religious groups doing exactly the same sort of thing. Only here Spencer and his other contributors paint it as some sort of uniquely Islamic practice. Complaining about halal meals, foot baths or prison da'wah is just petty. It draws extremely unfavorable parallels to European anti-Semitism in the 19th and 20th centuries which is why I so often mention similarities between Islam and Judaism.

Also, I really hate the term "moderate". There's nothing moderate about my religious practices, I adopt most traits of sunnah dress, go to jum'ah each week and look like I hide a bomb under my turban. I am, however, a secularist in all things pertaining to the state and my stripes on this will never change. SURPRISE! There's more than a few of us! Of course, you're unwilling to believe that... to you we're just this pack of primitive mohammedan liars!

"Even if we're "good" Muslims like that "Uncle Abu" who did "the Third Jihad" for Raphael Shore you'll still claim it's all merely a front to disguise our true evil objectives."

That is so clever (snark) useing "Uncle Abu" in reference to black people who dissagree with black liberation theology, as an Uncle Tom, or a race traitor. How very "moderate" of you. The best part is, in the book Uncle Toms cabin, Uncle Tom shows and lives, the highest form of Christianity. True marterdom in the name of Christ, dieing for his friends, so they can be free. Where as you are showing the true racism that is inherent in Islam. Well spoken, young unicorn.

Mobamed, I used it in reference to an Arab Muslim, not a black man. If you want to take it to an extreme there feel free.

No, you didn't invent those terms... what you and people like you have invented is this belief that people outside of Shi'a Islam accept the concept. Seriously, how is this different from the way that anti-Semites misconstrue kol nidre? Look it up, they claim it's an excuse for Jews to lie to gentiles no matter what.

So you hate freedom of speech against evilness of Ilsamic Nazism do you?! Get civilized - Nazi Islamic-rule attempt in West will be defeated, as Hitler Nazis were defeated!

Hey gerbiltea, so you're claiming Muslims to be the same Semitic 'race' as the Jews right now despite that the Arabic Pedophile Mohammed was the first to SYSTEMATICALLY racialize the Jews (as a different race from the Arabs), and committed the first racial Genocide of the Jews, in order to create savage, 'pure' and supremacist Nazi-like Arabic Empire – hence CREATING Islam and its blood-thirsty god to justify such savage mass murder! Islam which was beloved by Hitler and still is by the left-over hidden Nazis especially in the Left, needs to be challenged persistently! Investigation need to be reopened with major Western films (which is unfortunately dominated by the Left, and increasingly by Middle-eastern oil sponsorship probably) including, on whether Hitler was actually advised or inspired by the deeds of the Arabic Pedophile Mohammed and Islam! After all, the Muslim Arabs including the Palestinian Mufti of Jerusalem, Muslim Brotherhood founder, Hassan al-banna and the Turkish Ottomans were among or main Hitler/Nazi’s biggest collaborators or advisers!

woooo muslime!
you need to be straightened out!

fyi, the little link that you have posted is talking about ultraorthodox rabbis IN ISRAEL!!
you got that? in israel. not in minnesota, you moron!
that means that they are AT HOME! where they can do and say what they want. they did not come to somebody else's home and told them what to do!

i consider myself a VERY secular jew.
i am in TOTAL disagreement with these rabbis.
as a matter of fact i have a hard time with organized religion period.
i would much rather spend my time discussing art, music, economics and history. but more and more the subject of religion creeps into everyday news.
thanks to this cult of death that you have now come to defend.

have you bothered to read some of the talkbacks from the outraged israelis, you moron, or in typical muslime coward fashion you have chosen to ignore and point out to what MIGHT make your case (make israel and the jews look bad)

understand this muslime!
the tides are turning and your time is up!
more people become attuned to the TRUTH after being exposed to the works of robert spencer, pamela geller, gert wilders and many others.

you are a fraud!

Mobamad, bravo to your brave stand against liars like GoebblesTea tea there! After all, they're taught to lie like the creator of Islam, the Arabic Pedophile founder of Islam, Mohammed, who lied "peace be upon you" and that he was a ‘prophet’ whilst raping children and women including Jewish slaves, whose husbands, brothers and fathers were beheaded in the first systematic racial (Mohammed was the first one to SYSTEMATICALLY racialize the Jews as a race, to justify their mass-murder) Genocide of the Jews, in order to create supremacist and savage Nazi-like Arabic empire!

Again you are deceptive (or completely clueless). Here's the larger picture: Not in every instance when Muslims are offended do they resort to violence, but almost every time across the world there is a resort to violence by religious believers in the name of their faith it is Muslims who are the violent ones.

As for Muslims standing up for their rights here in America, this would be far worthier of approbation if Muslims across the world were not in the business of depriving non-Muslims of their rights (and just imagine how many freedoms Muslims would grant to non-Muslims if they ever became a majority in any Western country). It's called HYPOCRISY, in case you haven't noticed. Yet for another time you don't see what a burden Islam is for all the world. After all, who has to worry about Presbyterian suicide bombers, Buddhist monks trying to blow up airliners, Orthodox Jews sawing off the heads of Christians or Hindus threatening death for anyone who mocks Hinduism? Address, if you can, the almost unique resort to violence by followers of the religion that goes by the name of Islam.

Bet you won't. Bet you'll obfuscate again. How tedious you are.

"that means that they are AT HOME! where they can do and say what they want. they did not come to somebody else's home and told them what to do!"

so which is it? Is Israel a modern pluralist state or is it a halakhic state? I was hoping for the former but it appears you're arguing for the latter...

I'm happy that you disagree with those rabbis and I'm sure they don't represent the whole of Judaism any more so than a few Somali immigrants represent the whole of some other minority religion... Anyway, I pointed out that particular article but there's plenty to choose from right here in America where Jews are complaining about Christmas trees, Christmas lights, Christmas caroling and so on. I picked that article to demonstrate that such a state is edging towards being governed by religious law which makes it a questionable ally. How can one complain about "creeping shari'a" while supporting halacha?

Quick quiz, what is the penalty for apostasy in halacha? It's death. You can ask Moses about that one. What's the penalty for adultery? Oh yeah, death! Heck, I am starting to wonder exactly how these two systems are considerably different?

Shari'a is bad, halacha is bad and any kind of religious law being inflicted on a population who may even in small part reject it is bad.

Oh yeah, I also read some of the talkbacks where they opined that Christian businesses should be boycotted because it's "their land". I laughed a good bit there.

Katharina, wow. Really? What exactly is in your little book concerning that? Why... here's from the book of Numbers...

Numbers 31:17-18
17. Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.
18. But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.

The Midianite children taken as sex slaves? As commanded by their GOD? Wow, and you're complaining about the Qur'an? Well, surely this is a one off thing... oh wait...

1 Samuel 15:3

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass.

Your deity commands total genocide of ethnic groups and I'm supposed to lament that Muhammad killed polytheists and Jews? K. I see it's a matter of "do as we say not as we do".

"Quick quiz, what is the penalty for apostasy in halacha? It's death. You can ask Moses about that one. What's the penalty for adultery? Oh yeah, death! Heck, I am starting to wonder exactly how these two systems are considerably different?"

The systems are different because of the people. Where are the young jewish maidens being stoned/lashed/killed, by Zelots of the Torah? Is that happening any where in Israel? Or for that matter any where else in the world? No because Jew are not trying to inslave people under there book. That would be Islam, and also how the two systems are different.

No, you just get on my nerves. You entranced about the time I exited the belief.net forum of dhimmis who would not link to Jihad Watch articles because one of the volunteer moderators (cute legal trick) tagged JW a "radical Christian anti-Muslim hate site."

You are over the top. Tone it down a notch out of respect for the Jews, if nothing else.

kthxbye

Thomas_h and gravenimage - "Dhimmi" as I understand it then is an Islamic term for a vanquished infidel who chooses not to convert to Islam but live his life as as an infidel in servitude to his muslim masters.
In non-muslim lands they are non-muslim apologists /supporters of Islam, who toe the Muslim line that Islam is a religion of peace (specially after a particularly horrific killing of innocents by muslims in the name of Islam), that it is a tolerant religion (specially after Muslims object to Christmas being celebrated by Christians even in predominantly Christian countries, or after a few Christians are jailed or killed because they have converted from Mohammadism and totally ignore the fact that non-muslims are not allowed to build churches or even go to Mecca etc etc), that the Sharia is OK (Ignoring the fact that it discriminates against women and non-muslims), etc etc.

We should have another term for such persons than "Dhimmi" and their behaviour as "Dhimmitude". What about Islamopologist? or (more derogatory) Islam-licker. And their behaviour as Islamoservitude or Islamolicking.

They are not like "shameless, bragging whores" but more like the bully's accomplice, who when the victim is getting kicked by the bully, instead of standing up for the victim, puts his boot into the hapless victim.

Well spoken, I think that for our Moslem commenters though, this is more appropreate.

Jhn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.

Who is the word of GOD? Jesus Christ. Period.

Hey Goebbeltea, as usual, lying Muslims select and read without interlinking what the whole verses of the Bible is about; in order to justify the Arabic Pedophile Mohammed's evilness in raping children/women and committing the first systematic racial mass murder of the Jews (as if Mohammed's a god himself),who were simply opposing him! If you had cared to read the whole Bible like a civilized rational human being, you would find out that our God in the Old Testament (for both Christians and Jews)is very angry over any sins and will punish sinful/evil behaviour very harshly. But our same God in the New Testament, deceided to reconcile with human beings if they repent most genuinely from their evilness, thus our Lord Jesus Christ as the Son of God was sent down to offer God's individual free will of Salvation from committing and being amidst evil. Thus you can see the difference between Islam and Judeo-Christianity - Islam as CREATED by Mohammed, normalizes and legitimizes evilness, but Judaism and Christianity teach us to save ourselves from evil as thus why the precious Ten Commandments are given by our God. But of course, you would not have a clue to what the Bible is about since you'd been busy reading a book called the koran CREATED by the Arabic Pedophile rapist and mass murderer of the Jews, Mohammed!

Hey heidi, you get on my nerves with over the top behaviour and HYPOCRISY, by your hatred of my freedom of speech against Islam's evilness and fascism? How come you don't criticize Islam's barbarism since the Arabic Pedophile Mohammed's days until today, who mass muyrdered the Jews besides?! Yeah, show how much respect you have for civilized laws and the Jews, don't you?! Nil!

dear mobamad,

thank you for straightening out the muslime.
it is mind boggling the mental gymnastics these idiots have to go through to try to prove their measly miserable point.
so now he is quoting from the torah to try and point an equivalency between judaism and pisslam?
this whole miserable cult is a plagiarism of judaism and christianity so OBVIOUSLY it should not be difficult to point to verses that have a similar message...
because as you have pointed out..."The systems are different because of the people. Where are the young jewish maidens being stoned/lashed/killed, by Zelots of the Torah? Is that happening any where in Israel? Or for that matter any where else in the world? "

and of course this would be only ONE such example of modern crimes committed in the name of this despicable pisslam.

@GerbilTea "You tell us that Muslims UNIQUELY oppress Christians? I'm not quite so sure that's the case."

Well if you are sure that Muslims oppress Christians though not UNIQUELY so, that sort of makes it ok does it?

The example that you have given is not equivalent to the one from Minnesota. If a few Christians had emigrated to Tel Aviv and objected to some Jewish festivities in their classrooms during a Jewish festive season AND the authorities had then banned those festivities, that would have been exactly equivalent.

Also if a few Christians had emigrated to Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Libya or any one of the many Muslim countries and objected to Muslim festivities in Classrooms and the Muslims had complied that would be equivalent.

As it is the Christian children (and perhaps Muslim children too) who would have enjoyed Santa Claus have been denied their traditional enjoyment because of the objection of "more than one" bigoted Muslim parent.

Again there ARE some oppressions that Muslims UNIQUELY resort to - they oppress ALL people who do not believe in their religion in their own lands by their laws (Sharia). They oppress ALL women by their laws (Sharia).

Is that Ok GerbilTea?

Save your preaching for beliefnet.com

BTW -- International Caps Lock Days are October 22 and June 28.

You fool no one.

Thank you jewdog for making me laugh. The story on the other thread about the murdered little girl was heartbreaking and sick. Your humor took some of the horror of it away. All the best to you.

greetings counselor!

not to be presumptious, but please allow me to give you an unsolicited peace of advise.
in an earlier post to gerbiltea, you have rightfully pointed out that : "You're an idiot. You really are"...

well, i can tell you that nobody likes to be called an 'idiot' especially when they are an idiot so i think you should not call gerbil an 'idiot' even if you are right.

that's just my 2 cents... :)

Ah yes, obviously it is the Muslims who are at fault for the "War on Christmas".
**********

Just who planned to blow up a Christmas tree lighting ceremony in Portland?

Who tried to blow up Christmas shoppers in Sweden last week?

Who is on the international security radar for planning Christmas attacks here and abroad? Germany? France?

There's been an anti-Christian sentiment against Christmas for decades. But the violent, murderous attacks are coming from one place, and that place is the community of believers to which YOU belong.

"Maybe if they were forced to learn about our culture, other religions, and our cherished traditions, they would become civilized human beings in a few generations, assimilate, and become genuine Americans."
*********
Susanp, American children are barely aware of their country's great history. One of my adult children teaches grade school and the Little House on the Prairie books have been banned in the district (Missouri). Apparently they reflect poorly on Indian tribes.

This Head Start story illustrates how children at their earliest ages are brainwashed and deprived of their cultural rights by rotten school systems. The day this HS administrator received complaints from 1+ Somali dirtbags, she probably leapt for joy.

Thank you, captain nemo, for your 2 cents worth. I will take it under advisement. Seems I'm going to have to weigh in the future, more so than I have to date, which should be paramount, diplomacy or truth, seeing that the two rarely correspond. It's gonna' be a close call and right now I can't rightly say who's gonna' be the winner. Best regards.

Heidi I dont quite get what you're about.

Oh, geez, I got that quote wrong. Bad translation. It should be:

"There is Satan in Islam." - Ayatollah Khomeini

That's a more accurate translation.

NOTE THE "SMALL" DIFFERENCE - the stores and hotels they talk about in the article are JEWISH OWNED BUSINESSES THAT DISPLAY CHRISTIAN SYMBOLS. So the rabbis, that is Orthodox Jews, object to JEWISH OWNED businesses that display Christian symbols. That's after 2 millenia where Jews tried to remain Jews in Christian dominated regions (including the Middle East before the Muslim conquest) under various forms of pressure to convert. People even died to avoid conversion. THEY DO NOT OPPRESS CHRISTIANS.

How do I know these are Jewish owned businesses? Because the rabbis threatened to withdraw their kosher certificate. A kosher certificate isn't necessary in order to sell food in Israel, but the segment of the population that observes kashrut will not eat in places that don't have a kosher certificate, so it's a financial loss. Christian and Muslim owned restaurants usually don't have a kosher cetificates (unless they want to sell to religious Jews) and cater to both their own communities and to secular Jews who want to eat non-kosher food, but can't get it in places that have a kosher certificate, so Christians and Muslims have their own market and are not financially hurt by not having a kosher certificate. Where I live there are two large stores that have kosher certificates and one that doesn't and caters to customers who don't observe kashrut (mostly Jewish).

So you say that rabbis in Israel who object to JEWISH OWNED businesses displaying Christian symbols is exactly the same as the oppression of Christians in Muslim countries?

Nemo, just so you know. Wellington, as well as my self, have been having this discution with GoebbelsTea for a long time. this is not a new debate. I dont think that Goebbels is going to be "streightened out" any time soon. Also, Wellington may think that Goebbels is an "idiot" but I assure you that he is very informed, and has read many books, of verious religions. He is VERY missguided, and wrong about a whole lot of stuff, but I dont think (in my opinion) that Wellington thinks that Goebbels is in fact an idiot. Just idiotic in his defence of the indefenceable, and circular logic. (misguided as it is.)

Rich,

They are not like "shameless, bragging whores" but more like the bully's accomplice, who when the victim is getting kicked by the bully, instead of standing up for the victim, puts his boot into the hapless victim.

I don’t think the image you are suggesting corresponds to reality. What we see now is not a “victim who is getting kicked by the bully”.
The “hapless victim” outnumbers the bully in ratio 40 to 1 (at least in America) and had it decided it had enough of “bully’s” antics it would have given the bully clear message to behave or get the hell out of here. The “victim” has both numbers and means to do so. What the victim lacks is anger, or rather capacity for anger, which has been removed from his system through decades of politically correct conditioning leaving him confused, self doubting, but at the same desperately wishing to expiate for the “original sin” of the Western Civilization that he had been brainwashed to believe in.

Not being a native speaker of the English language I’d leave the task of coining a good term for the Islam promoters for others. I see them as revolting traitors and vandals defacing and corrupting the glorious edifice of the West in hope of finally erasing it.
Quislings for Islam. Quislamen?

Well, I can say I have a lot to do with West Papuans, and they are now Christians, and have had a terrible time under the hand of - you guessed it - Muslims from Indonesia. They do eat pork, and the Indonesians have apparently introduced a disease to the pigs of West Papua, knowing it will affect the Papuans and not the new immigrant Indonesian Muslims.

And so it goes on...

dear mobamad,

like you, like wellington, and many others i view this cult of death aas a despicable totalitarian belief system.
not one day goes by without bringing forth a new testimony to the incredible savagery and barbarism that is associated with islam and its devout followers.

i enjoy immensly the exchanges that are being posted and many many a time i learn new facts.
i have come to identify and to enjoy the inimmittable style of some of the posters (such as wellington, classicus and others...)

when it comes to those that defend islam AND attack judaism/israel to me it is a call to an all out attack (verbal of course...:) )

when replying to a post, we lack the benefit of vocalization and intonation....
i must admit, that i have used wellington's post as a reason to ONE MORE TIME call the idiot, an'idiot'.
and again, i think, that wellington was fully justified to call the idiot 'an idiot'....:)

let me just end my dear mobamad, by wishing you and yours, to wellington as well, and all those that post at jw a Merry Christmas and a very Happy New Year!

Great analogy!

"If a few Christians had emigrated to Tel Aviv and objected to some Jewish festivities in their classrooms during a Jewish festive season AND the authorities had then banned those festivities, that would have been exactly equivalent.

Also if a few Christians had emigrated to Iran, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Libya or any one of the many Muslim countries and objected to Muslim festivities in Classrooms and the Muslims had complied that would be equivalent.

As it is the Christian children (and perhaps Muslim children too) who would have enjoyed Santa Claus have been denied their traditional enjoyment because of the objection of 'more than one' bigoted Muslim parent."

###

In "The Clash of Civilizations" Samuel Huntington discusses how

"The multiculturalists [are challenging] a central element of the American Creed, by substituting for the rights of individuals the rights of groups, defined largely in terms of race, ethnicity, sex, and sexual preference...The Creed...has been 'the cement in the structure of this great and disparate nation,'..." (p. 306).

--I would add religion to the above list. We have become a nation of fragmented groups with competing interests. Much more multiculturalizing (is that a word?) and we are no longer the United States but the United Nations.

Christianity is the defining core and heritage of this country. Its celebrations and customs should be part and parcel of what immigrants simply accept, rather than something to be purged from their new lives by their petty little grievances.

[btw - I am about fighting Islamization and fakes who would universalize religion. Any religion. Some posters work in tandem. Just my 2 cents.]

Hey heidi, you get on my nerves with over the top behaviour and HYPOCRISY, by your hatred of my freedom of speech against Islam's evilness and fascism? How come you don't criticize Islam's barbarism since the Arabic Pedophile Mohammed's days until today, who mass muyrdered the Jews besides?! Yeah, show how much respect you have for civilized laws and the Jews, don't you?! Nil!

1. You are obsessed with race.
2. You are obsessed with Mohammed (who is dead).
3. You are obsessed with the past; your focus should be on the behaviour of this century's Sons of Mohammed.

You are projecting...

Bhobby : ...the comments by Katherina in regard to the Bible and the essence of Christianity do not represent anything even close to real Christian notions of salvation

According to whom? You? When did you get to be the arbiter of what makes the christian grade? Katherina, please ignore Bhobby, he has a overinflated sense of adequacy.

Here, I hope you find some enlightenment from the 'Life of Brian', Bhobby.

Whilst it's hard to believe this story is even true, how idiotic is it that such a small minority controls what the majority wants to do?

Thank you.

Really?

This one?

~projecting~

21. Psychology . to ascribe one's own feelings, thoughts, or attitudes to others.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/projecting

"Quislamists" has a nice ring to it, to this parochial American's ear. ("Ear" is an idiomatic expression for hearing, and "ring" in the sense of "resonant, sonorous tone"--lest someone should think I refer to adornment of the ear, as in "earring.")

[Sorry that it's six days too late to wish you a happy Saint Lucy's Day; so I'll wish you a happy Christmas and a prosperous New Year, then, Thomas_h.)

Hey hiedi, thank the Lord that I nor any Judeo-Christians will be fooled by you! I asked you a question on your silence on Mohammed and Islam's Nazi-like violence and why haven't you haven't replied?! Anyway, I'm so glad to be obsessed with fighting evil - instead of bowing like cowardly SLAVES to the Arabic Pedophile Mohammed, creator of Islam, who lied "peace be upon you" (did you learn to lie from him?) and that he was a ‘prophet’ whilst raping savagely children and women including Jewish slaves, whose husbands, brothers and fathers were beheaded in the first systematic racial. By the way, I'm not the first one - that same pervert rapist Mohammed was the first one to SYSTEMATICALLY racialize the Jews as a race (as different from the Arab race) to justify the Jews’ mass-murder in the first systematic racial Genocide of the Jews, in order to create supremacist and savage Nazi-like Arabic empire. Not enough civilized education for you it looks like - the West is not under Nazi Communist or Nazi Islamic rule if you look around; I suggest you learn what democracy means for an initial civilized Western education!

Thanks Abu_Lahab, Islam lovers like hiedily, bobbily or gerbilly, only believe in lies - as taught by the Arabic Pedophile rapist Mohammed and mass murderer of the Jews, who craeted that evil 'religion' called Islam!

Most assuredly. Chris Marben needs to be the focus of our ire, not one another.

I wish all Christians here, or those who claim to be, could remember it's Advent.

Hello again - I don't know what your "position" is on anything, but I know that you are just as annoyed as I am by this "Katharina" person. Insofar as I've let myself become annoyed, Katharina has triumphed and won the big battle going on inside her(?) head. It's only because I try to read as many of the comments as possible, believing that everyone here might have something useful to say, that I've fallen into the trap so cleverly set, and lost. Now everyone knows, alas, I'm a devotee of the pedophile Muhammed Nazi Hitler guy. Your suggestion for a separate thread for special purposes has merit. Katharina could have to herself a thread called "the Insane Asylum".

Hey bobbbly, Islam does makes its many believers go INSANE! You could even have your own INSANE ASYLUM in the Arabian desert! So you worship that Islam which is created by the Arabic Mohammed, to justify evilness, including beastly sexual lust and violence, right from the beginning, such as Mohammed’s own child-‘bride’ was only 6 years old, Aisha – the Pedophile rapist Mohammed was 50 and such as the 17 year old beautiful Jewish Saffiya, who was forced to marry 57 year old Mohammed right after Saffiya’s husband, wealthy tribe leader father & uncle were beheaded after being tortured with all the other Jewish men in Khaibar - the last Jewish tribe mass murdered in order to create Nazi-like supremacist, racist and savage Arabian kingdom! Is it any wonder that Islam creates nutcase believers just like Nazism create the crazy Nazis?! Do be intelligent and read up on the truths - Sharia Law for the Non-Muslim

Sunday, 07 November 2010 11:54 Bill Warner
"....In Medina, Mohammed sat all day long beside his 12-year-old wife while they watched as the heads of 800 Jews were removed by sword.[1] Their heads were cut off because they had said that Mohammed was not the prophet of Allah. ...Islam is 14% Allah and 86% Mohammed...." (At - http://europenews.dk/en: In - http://www.rightsidenews.com/2010110712066/us/islam-in-america/sharia-law-for-the-non-muslim.html )

Thomas_h where are you from? For a non-English speaker you have done quite well with Quislamen.
Though Quislamen is a little gender specific. What about Quislams or Quislingslams?
Better than my Islamopologist or the cruder Islam-licker.
Other suggestions Islamo-sycho's (sycophants), or Islamoservients

dear katharina,

i must admit that i have been scratching my head for quite a while trying to UNDERSTAND the reason for the venom infused in the posts between you and heidi...
maybe the canadian winter is getting to me, but i REALLY did not get it...it almost sounded as a catfight...

if i may...

bhobby would be the LAST person to defend islam...
i am saddened by reading these posts which point to an 'internal war', when our efforts should be 'to fight islam wherever ye shall find it'...

so come on guys! let's get back on track....:)

Never let St. Nicholas' remains to be moved back to muslim Turkey from Italy...
.............................

Indeed not, grungyoldvan. A lot of art and antiquities that have been "repatriated" to Turkey have been damaged, lost, sold on the black market, and outright destroyed.

And why not—since Islam regards such objects as nothing more than Jahiliyya—worthless objects from the time of pre-Islamic "ignorance"?

The sailors of Bari *rescued* St. Nicholas' bones from the Muslim invaders. Nothing has happened in Turkey in the last 900 years that should change anyone's minds as to the wisdom of their actions.

you are absolutely correct graven!

countless irreplaceable archeological artifacts are being destroyed at the temple mount in jerusalem by the pa bastards as they are trying to erase all historical evidence of jewish presence ...

a muslime by definition, cannot and must not be trusted.since they got the green light to lie and cheat, the least we can do is NOT to trust ANYTHING spoken written by followers of this death cult

John,
I think your term "Quislamist" is a wonderful improvement over "Quislaman". Let's have it!!!
May I quietly hope that should you become world-wide famous for authoring such apt term you will occasionally acknowledge my humble contribution?

("Ear" is an idiomatic expression for hearing, and "ring" in the sense of "resonant, sonorous tone"--lest someone should think I refer to adornment of the ear, as in "earring.")

I both appreciated and was amused by your - no doubt out of concern for non-native English user - gently making me aware of the ways “ear” and “ring” can be understood. I am proud to assure you I guessed correctly the meaning intended by you! Thanks all the same.

But why "parochial"?

Please don't worry about missing the Saint Lucy's Day. Although our Swedish neighbours, or rather their children, love to celebrate it - in Denmark, where I live, it is not even a minor holiday.

Thank you so much for the Christmas and New Year wishes, John. May you and yours have merriest Christmas and happiest New Year. And may the Men of the West prevail over the mohammedan invader.

There are plenty of forums out there to do that and the purpose of this one, by my understanding anyway, is to cast the light of reason on the absurd cult of islam.

Once in a while we're going to have disagreements. I'd hate this place to turn into a braying congregation of ditto's. We can all be civil, answer challenges when faced with them and stand our ground politely, can't we?

I will stand with anyone on this forum if they are against islam, I will do it honestly.

Rich,

Thanks for the compliment. I live in Denmark, but am from Poland originally.

As you see above, John C. Barile has improved on my "Quislaman" and came up with "Quislamist". You would agree this is a wonderful word. Let's use it as widely as we can and have fun seeing the islam-promoters squirm at the sound of it!

Take care,

Thomas

You are right, Mobammad. I don't think GerbilTea an idiot in the sense that he is deficient IQ wise. But I do think him an idiot in another regard. Aside from ordinary measurable intelligence, i.e., IQ, there are other forms of intelligence that should not be neglected by anyone who wants to grasp the entire picture of the human mind. What we're talking about here is the distinction between IQ on the one hand and common sense, moral intelligence and street smarts on the other. I do not deny that GerbilTea has enough of the IQ type of intelligence, but respecting the latter three types I mentioned he is most deficient. In this latter sense, GerbilTea is indeed an idiot, though "fool" would have been a better choice of words for me to use.

After all, one can be bright and even possessed of many areas of knowledge without being wise. GerbilTea is not wise in the least. Reasonable minds can differ respecting what is the optimum designation of such a person. I chose "idiot." I should have chosen "fool." I'll try to be more careful next time. Maybe.

Thomas_h I took a trip to Europe this April/ May. Before I went I read up a bit about European history.

When Vienna almost fell to the Turks on the 11th of September 1683, the King of Poland led the largest cavalry charge in history to defeat the Turks at the gates of Vienna. Thanks to him Vienna is a beautiful western city today and Europe was made safe from the Islamic invasion from the East.

Quislamist is a good word. Better than the Mohammadan Dhimmi.

"We're respecting the wishes of families in the program"
................................

What about the families that would relish a visit from jolly old Santa Claus? Many head start kids come from poor families, and this may be the only chance they would get to see St. Nick. I grew up on welfare, and I treasure the memories of appearances of guys like Dennis Jackson dressed in the big red suit.

...

I hadn't thought of it that way Graven. I've been thinking about it for a while. You make a good point.

What is kind of interesting is the first question to Miss Manners in today's paper. Rather topical right now.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/12/18/AR2010121802475.html

Sean

you wrote

'British 'Muslims to hold anti-Christmas protest. EDL plan carol-singing counter demo:"

I like it, I like it, I like it.

Good on them!

Just to be absolutely clear.

What I like so much is the EDL's idea of holding 'a carol-singing counter-demo' to challenge the Muslims who are denouncing 'Christmas'.

Brilliant.

Query.

How on earth are the BBC and co. going to 'spin' the sight of large numbers of male and female EDL members of all ages, well-dressed and cheerful, strumming guitars, blowing trumpets, ringing hand-bells, and melodiously singing *traditional English Christmas carols*?? After all: groups of people going about the streets singing Christmas carols is a tradition that goes back at least 200 years. Will the police swoop in and arrest *carol-singers*?

Carol-singers are manifestly going to look so much nicer, and *sound* so much nicer, than the hooting, howling, scowling Mohammedans opposite.

Rich,

King Jan Sobieski's victory was great indeed, but he only had to fight the moslem army. Today he would have to engage both the moslems on the battlefield and quislamists at home.
At his time quislamists were a very rare phenomenon with extremely short life expectancy thanks to quick and efficient application of rope or sword to the neck to serve as both lesson and entertainment for the audience.

But those were the times when you could shout "TREASON!"! - even in the crowded theater.

take care,
Thomas

"How on earth are the BBC and co. going to 'spin' the sight..."?

Well, one of the ways:

1. The group will be attacked by 'youths', and will be denounced for defending themselves,
2. Police will form blocking lines and sweep the protesters into "approved" areas down a side-street, behind the factory, and under the bridge, and resistance will be deemed "violence"
3. An Agent Provocateur will throw things at police fro the middle of the crowd.
4. "Onward Christian Soldiers" will be deemed hate speech.
5. "I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas will be deemed racism.

you get the idea. Therefore, put grey grannies and babies on the front line.

Parochial, Sense 3: "confined or restricted as if within the borders of a parish : limited in range or scope (as to a narrow area or region) : synonymous with PROVICIAL, NARROW" -- just like the "typical white" American "who clings to guns and religion" -- said in self-mockery.

Thomas_h, I'm thrilled that you like "Quislamist" to mean "dhimmi collaborator, turncoat, or traitor" I, too, would like this trans-Atlantic brainchild of ours to gain currency as another word added to the language of resistance. A fitting pejorative for an Adam Gadahn, an Ibrahim Hooper, Igrid Matteson, or a mayor Michael Bloomberg. Yet another fitting swipe at the infamous Norwegian Nazi traitor to king and country, Vidkun Quisling. As willing and useful a Nazi ally as Haj Amin al-Husseini, Mufti of Jerusalem, was.

Loves God wrote:

What about the families that would relish a visit from jolly old Santa Claus?...

I've been thinking about it for a while. You make a good point.
..........................

Thanks. I do think this is one of the most important aspects of cases like this—this is not just "accommodating Muslims", it is forcing non-Muslims to give up more and more aspects of their own culture.

All we have to do is look at Dar-al-Islam to see where this can lead—a society where non-Muslims cannot worship, cannot celebrate, cannot speak freely, lest it "offend" Muslims.

And we know, as well, what such "offense" can lead to—"blasphemy" charges, imprisonment, riots, and outright murder.