Moderate Abbas: "If there is an independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital, we won't agree to the presence of one Israeli in it"

No Israelis allowed in Palestine, hmmm?

What about Jewish people who are not Israelis??

At least he's telling the truth if anyone is bothering to listen! Why do I get this persistant feeling that Islam is a one way street and any one who tries to in the opposite direction is run over?

One of the respondents to the Jerusalem Post report wrote:

"Peace, Not Apartheid" was former US president Jimmy Carter's book falsely accusing Israel of "apartheid" policies. He forgot that Arabs in Israel have their own members of parliament, the Knesset, and every right of citizenship from free education, even higher education, free health care, and so on. The scenario now unfolding before our eyes is an embryonic state conceived to meet all the criteria of Jimmy Carter's hallucination, with one exception: it's his Arab buddies that are planning evil. Now Carter should revise his book, or re-write it entitled: " Peace, Not The Abbas Abyss".

Absolutely correct! Who's promising apartheid policies now?

Yeah peace at any price, reminds me of Chamberlin of the UK in 1939. Islam is a one way street. Anyone who tries to go in a different direction is run over and killed!

CHRISTMAS GREETINGS FROM LOONWATCH

I just posted the following comment on Loonwatch:

"If Loonwatch was truly in the holiday spirit and serious about its season greetings then why the picture of the cross eyed loony bird? What does that signify? That Christmas is a loony holiday? And that all believing Christians are loons? Why not a picture of Mary holding baby Jesus? Or Santa and his reindeers bringing gifts and joy? A loony bird sends the completely wrong message to Christians."

How long will it be before this is deleated?

Israel, on the other hand, is supposed to allow itself to be overrun. And really, if the PA has its way, there won't be an Israel from which people can call themselves Israeli anyway -- as demonstrated most recently in this PA broadcast.

Imam to tour nation promoting NYC Islamic center. USA today(online) 26/12/2010

Yet they demand to settle millions of Arabs inside Israel, because where else will all those poor Muslim Arabs live if not in Tel Aviv? It's not like the Muslim Arabs conquered the entire Middle East or something. It's not like the states of the Arab League comprise 5,382,910 square miles. So they need Israel too, they must have Tel Aviv. Even though they threw out the Jews from the "Arab lands" much like they do now with the Christians. They also expelled the Jews from east Jerusalem, sorry, Aelia Capitolina, in 1948. Now they demand to expell all the Jews from east Aelia Capitolina again.

They rejected Olmert's peace proposals because Israel won't settle millions of Arabs inside Israel and because Olmert suggested that the holy places in Aelia Capitolina will be under international governance rather than Arab-Muslim rule. Then they demanded as a precondition to negotiation with Netanyahu a complete construction freeze in the settelments and in east Aelia Capitolina, even though in the past they've agreed to the principle of land swaps where the major settlement blocks will be annexed to Israel and in return they will get lands with similar size from Israel. Netanyahu agreed to a construction freeze of 10 months, yet Abbas refused to negotiate with Israel for 8 months and then only agreed to a meeting every two weeks until the freeze expired. Then they demanded to continue the freeze as a precondition to negotiation. Netanyahu said Israel will continue the freeze if the Palestinian Arabs will recognize Israel as a Jewish state. They said no.

You would think that if these people are so desparate for their own state, living in peace NEXT to Israel (without replacing Israel with another Arab Muslim state), they would be in a hurry to negotiate? But why should they negotiate if the world will recognize a Palestinian state with east Aelia Capitolina as its capital without them having to recognize a Jewish state and sign an agreement where they declare the end of the conflict and commit to peace?

No, they will have this state. Then they will start to accumulate weapons. If Israel does something to stop it the entire world will go for our jugular. Well, it will go for our jugular anyway because Israel won't expell the Jews from Aelia Capitolina. The Jews were expelled from Jerusalem by the Babylonians, by the Romans who renamed Judea Palaestina and Jerusalem Aelia Capitolina, by the Crusaders, by the Arabs. Expecting the Israeli government and the Israeli army, made mostly of Jewish soldiers, to expell the Jews from Jerusalem now is a bit too much. But of course, the world will demand it.

Then after accumulating weapon they will start attacking Israel from Judea and Samaria. And they will attack the Jews in Jerusalem. The entire world will cheer their war of "liberation", will boycot Israel etc. Even if they succeed, with the help of the "international community", to drive out the Jews from Jerusalem and rename it Aelia Capitolina or whatever, they will still continue the war.

One day, when the west will have again real historians and real reporters instead of this bunch of far leftist ideologues and Saudi employees, you will understand what you have done to us.

No surprise here respecting Latin America. It has invariably been on the wrong side of history. This functions as another example. And the irony is very deep. Dysfunctional and ordinarily liberty-crushing nations in South America recognizing one of the ultimate liberty-crushing phenomena of all time---any Islamic state, in this case an extra bogus one.

There are two alternatives for the Israelis: the transfer option and the Samson option. Yet, because of Political Correctness, it's near-impossible even to discuss the possibility of what could be a bloodless and humane transfer of Palestinian Arabs to neighboring countries, where they would be surrounded by people sharing their language, their culture, and their aspirations. Local Arab economies would undoubtedly benefit from the additional labor force represented by these Palestinian exiles, as well as the education many of them will have received from Israeli institutions. Of course, Arab governments would never agree to this under present circumstances, but there is no reason why the rest of the world must go along with Arabs' wishes.

At the same time, the politics toward Israel assumed by many of the important world powers make the possibility of exercising the second alternative appear too plausible. Do the leadership in such places as Europe, Russia, and South America realize that backing into a corner this technically advanced and capable and deeply proud little nation-state, is not only an obscene violation of every standard of morality, but represents unfathomably stupid realpolitik as well? Do these people expect the Israelis to quietly commit suicide?

Even America, whose propaganda line continues to be that the U.S. is Israel's best friend forever, apparently predicates her support for Israel's existence on Arab approval. What else could Hillary Clinton mean when she says things like, "Israel must make peace soon because, given the proliferation of advanced technology in the region, Israel's qualitative edge will be impossible to guarantee"? This on the heels of the $60 billion dollar weapons sale to Saudi Arabia, and with the ongoing arming and training of future Fatah terrorists and assorted military aid to states like Egypt and Lebanon! Or by statements like "Israel is committing slow suicide by its failure to give up the West Bank, etc., because Arabs will soon outnumber Jews west of the Jordan"? This is the equivalent of claiming to be the best friend and guarantor of the Tibetans while admitting that one really has no intention of lifting a finger for Tibet without the approval of the Chinese. In June 1940, when France was being overrun by the Wehrmacht, Churchill proposed the creation of a unified French-British state to keep the French in the war. This is what a serious alliance looks like. Would America extend this type of generosity to Israel in a real crisis?

Moderate Abbas: "If there is an independent Palestinian state with Jerusalem as its capital, we won't agree to the presence of one Israeli in it"

Yeah, "if."

And the rabbis were in trouble for asking Jews not to rent property to Muslims? Well, I found that reasonable, considering how I would feel if Muslims started to move into my street. But the media went mad. Will it go as mad about this?

I think that the following video may provide some insight about who are actual true 'moderate' Muslims (people who adhere to personally and culturally modified, ethical, non-authoritative, versions of Islam), who are part of, and who are allies of all people who are part of, the counter-Jihad movement. Such people who are such Muslims are people who were born into cultures that are Muslim and who want to adhere to the religion of the culture that they were born into, and who pick and chose verses from texts of Islam in accordance only with ethical moral principals that they - those people who are truly 'moderate' Muslim - value and adhere to.

"Who belongs in the Counter-Jihad Movement？ Part 4 (Q and A)", discussion with true 'moderate' Muslim (Muslim American) Supna Zaidi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APW903lSvDU

Correction (corrected text is in bold):

...who pick and choose verses from texts of Islam in accordance only with ethical moral principals that they - those people who are truly 'moderate' Muslim - value and adhere to...

I think that the most enlightened true 'moderate' Muslims are true 'moderate' Muslim Israeli Arabs (who I think constitute a majority of the Israeli Muslim Arab citizenry of Israel - and who truly are 'a silent majority" (an 'unseen' - non-vocal - non-presented - majority)).

"Israeli Arab Muslim Woman Speaks Out - Salma Abdallah", by Nonie Darwish - Arabs For Israel
http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=18441701390

"He who prefers settlements over peace is responsible for the obstacles to peace," he added.

"If he really was interested in peace, he would have at least preferred peace to settlements."...
...............................

And yet, somehow missile attacks and suicide bombings and vows to "drive Israel into the sea" don't seem to present "obstacles to peace".

But building apartments...how could *that* possibly be compatible with "peace"...sarc/off

The existence of Israel proves that islam is a lie. That is what sends mohammedans into a frenzy of hatred, violence and murder. Peace talks are a waste of time, money and innocent lives. Israel must demolish all mosques in the Holy Land and send all Palestinians back to their homelands in Syria and Jordan. Al aqsa is a blight on the world and an affront to God.

Mahmoud Abbas is the head of an genocidally anti-Jewish Islamic Supremacist terrorist militia political organization - Fatah-PLO-PalestinianAuthority - that was founded by the prodigy of, and under the guidance of, Amin al-Husseini, who, from 1941 to 1945 resided in Germany, and was an adjoined official of the Nazi regime of Germany, and who, with his colleague, Adolf Eichmann, was the co-architect of the genocide of the Jewish people in Europe by the Nazi regime of Germany.

Typo Correction (corrected text is in bold):

...a genocidally...

Certainly, Israel ought to annex Gaza and expel or destroy Hamas completely.

As regards the West Bank, it's not unreasonable for that expanse of land to become the Palestinian State, but Jerusalem should not be part of such a Palestinian State, and definitely not it's capital.

If such a Palestinian State were to exist, I do not think any Israeli would want to live there anyway. No one would want to live in such a place surrounded by people who are salivating to murder them.

Ideally, yes, the Palestinian State should welcome Israelis just as Israel welcomes Muslims into Israel. But the situation between Israel and the PA/Palestinians is far from ideal. So, for all practical purposes, it's better for Israelis to stay out of such a Palestinian State, unless such Israelis are willing to endure harassment, discrimination, persecution, and being raped and/or murdered by devilish Muslims.

But, before such a Palestinian State should exist, Israel should decide now to annex whatever land and decide its new borders.

You must read the roiginal article before slandering.
He said 'No IDF' that means the israeli defence force, and not the civilian jewish people.
Please do not spread false information.

You must read the whole statement before writing wrong information.
He said 'No IDF' that means no to Israeli Defence Force, and not the civilian jewish people.
Israel is trying to make it a state for Jewish people only and revokes the papers of the civilian arab population living in Jerusalem!
Please check your facts and do not spread false information.
Thanks.

Observe our poster, 'Gehad' (i.e. Jihad!), pretending that the statement "we won't agree to the presence of one Israeli in it [i.e. in an Arab Islamic state of 'Palestine'] really meant only 'we won't agree to the presence of any IDF soldiers'.

If he meant 'soldiers' (and soldiers only) why didn't he say, 'soldiers'?

The natural sense of Abbas' words, in response to the question about a possible IDF presence, seems to me to be a retort along the lines of - 'not only will we not permit IDF *soldiers*, *we won't allow ANY Jooz at all*'.

and I remember well what happened when Jordan, in the 1948 war, attacked and seized for itself the Old City of Jerusalem (which contained the ancient Jewish Quarter), and Judea and Samaria, which regions contained Jewish communities, both new villages established by the Zionists and other Jewish immigrants, and also the ancient community of Hebron.

*Every single Jew* was either killed or expelled. And *not one Jew*, during the period of the Jordanian Muslim occupation of that seized-by-force territory, was permitted to set foot on any part of that land which Arab Muslims had seized, land which included ancient Jewish sacred sites - Rachel's Tomb, Joseph's Tomb, the Cave of the Patriarchs, Caleb's Tomb, Joshua's Tomb, the ancient Jewish cemetery on the Mount of Olives (Muslims desecrated it by, for example, using some of the tombstones to build latrines), and ...the Temple Mount.

I find that the sorts of things Muslims have done in the past seem to be a pretty good indication of the kinds of things they do now or are likely to do in the future.

I very much doubt that Abbas would permit any Jewish villagers inside his dreamed-of Arab Islamic State of 'Palestine'. I have no doubt that he would gleefully forbid all Jewish access to the Kotel, let alone to the Temple Mount or any other sacred site, were he and his cronies to gain their trophy capital including the most ancient and deeply-Jewish portions of Jerusalem.

Doom-and-gloom,

Thank you for clarifying about what is the situation in Israel. I realize that what you have written is the case, but I think that the following, that, according to Khaled Abu Toameh, is the case, may also be the case.

According to Khaled Abu Toameh, who is an Israeli Muslim Arab journalist, and who is a loyal Israeli, the radical treasonous Arab (I think Muslim Arab) members of the Knesset have been voted into the Knesset by Israeli Arabs (Israeli Muslim Arabs (Arab (Muslim Arab) Israelis) because, according to Khaled Abu Toameh, there is discrimination against Arab citizens of Israel by members of the government of Israel, in that, according to Khaled Abu Toameh, the infrastructure needs and social service needs of Israeli Arabs have not been adequately met by the members of the government of Israel, and, according to Khaled Abu Toameh, the radical treasonous Arab (Muslim Arab) members of the Knesset have been voted into the Knesset by Israeli Arabs because Israeli Arabs, therefore, feel discriminated against by the Jewish members of the government of Israel, and, according to Khaled Abu Toameh, the views expressed by radical treasonous Arab (Muslim Arab) members of the Knesset do not really represent the views of most Arab (Muslim Arab) Israelis, but, according to Khaled Abu Toameh, radical treasonous Arab (Muslim Arab) members of the Knesset have been voted into the Knesset as "cage rattlers" by Israeli Arabs (Arab Israelis) out of frustration.

I know that the government of Israel has, in fact, met the needs of the Arab citizens of Israel (Israeli Arabs (Arab Israelis)) to a large degree and has done so to a degree no less than that of how most Western nations have met the needs of minority groups within those nations, and I know that Israel has met the needs of the Arab citizens of Israel to a beneficial degree that is un unparalled and usurpassed compared to how the government of any other nation that has ever been in a situation that has been even close to the situation that Israel has been in since its founding (a situation of being under constant continuous intendedly genocidal seige) has ever treated any members of its population whose relationship to that nation has been similar to the relationship of Israeli Arabs (Arab Israelis) to Israel (a relationship of being members of, and of, in many cases, having expressed solidarity with, and of, in some cases, colluded with, a group whose nations and political and militia organizations have been constantly and continuously intendedly genocidally beseiging that nation that they are citizens of - which is a nation that they have been granted citizenship of by that nation).

I think that the members of the government of Israel need to non-appeasingly, honestly, accurately, clearly, affectionately, firmly, effectively, communicate the reality of the situation to Israeli Muslim Arabs (Muslim Arab Israelis); The members of the government of Israel need to say: "All citizens of Israel, including all Arab citizens of Israel, are full, welcome, appreciated, members of Israel, but all citizens of Israel must be loyal to their country, Israel, and all citizens of Israel are required by law to not engage in treason."; No draconian measures should be imposed; That just should be communicated effectively, and laws against treason should be enforced - including against members of the government of Israel who commit treasonous actions against Israel. At the same time, if, as what Khaled Abu Toameh says is the case is the case, the members of the government of Israel are not properly responding to the infrastructure needs and social servive needs of Arab citizens of Israel, then, for the well-being of Israel, the members of the government of Israel need to properly respond to the infrastructure needs and social service needs of Arab citizens of Israel. The members of the government of Israel should not appease Arab citizens of Israel in a way that is unjust and that is detrimental to the country, but if, as what Khaled Abu Toameh says is the case, the members of the government of Israel are not properly responding to the infrastructure needs and social service needs of Arab citizens of Israel, then the members of the government of Israel should properly respond to the infrastructure needs and social service needs of Arab citizens of Israel.

Articles by Khaled Abu Toameh
http://www.hudson-ny.org/author/Khaled+Abu+Toameh

gravenimage,

I understand, and agree with, what you have written.

----

With my writing the things that I wrote in my previous comments, I just wanted to present certain facts that I thought might give a fuller understanding of the situation.

I think that we - those of us who are engaged in the effort against the modern Islamic Supremacist political movement - should understand what is the case and I think that we should engage in the effort against the modern Islamic Supremcist political movement in the most beneficial effective way, and I think that, as the main part of that, we should effectively communicate to people in Western societies what is the case; We should communicate the following facts:

O There currently exists in the world a huge, religious, totalitarian, supremacist, (genocidally anti-Jewish, genocidally anti-non-Muslim, genocidally anti-Gay) politial movement - the modern Islamic-Supremcaist political movement - which is engaged in the practice of *authoritative* Islam.
O *Authoritative* Islam is a religious, totalitarian, supremacist, (genocidally anti-Jewish, genocidally anti-non-Muslim, genocidally anti-Gay) political governmental system.
O Many Muslims are not true adherents of, nor are, in many cases, even aware of the actual true nature of, *authoritative* Islam.
O The modern Islamic Supremacist political movement is consituted by the following organizations: the Muslim Brotherhood and its proxy groups in Western countries; the regimes of Muslim Arab states; the Islamic Supremacist, ideologically apocalyptic, regime in Iran and its proxy groups in Western countries; the OIC (the Organization of the Islamic Conference) - which is a coallition of 57 Muslim governments, and which is the largest, and controlling, voting bloc in the United Nations, and which is the controlling body of the United Nations; Islamic Supremacist terrorist militias - such as al-Qaeda; Islamic Supremacist terrorist militias that have become Islamic Supremacist political militia political governmental organizations - such as Fatah-PLO-PalestinianAuthority, and Hamas, and Hizbollah, and the KLA.
O The adherents of the modern Islamic Supremacist political movement are engaged in a conscious strategic effort - which is an effort that is officially mandated by *authoritative* Islam, and which is called Jihad - to, by violent, and non-violent, overt, and covert, means, establish Islam as the governmental system of the whole world, and to, as the central part of that, establish Islamic law - which is called Sharia (which is pronounced Shareeya) - as the governmental legal system for the whole world, and to, as part of that effort, by violent, and non-violent, overt, and covert, means, destroy the governmental institutions and civil societies of non-Islamic countries.
O *Authoritative* Islam officially sanctions the use of deceit as a strategic tactic in the effort of Jihad - which is a strategic tactic called Taqiya - and the adherents of the modern Islamic Supremacist political movement are consciously using deceit - Taqiya - as a strategic tactic in their effort of Jihad.
O The central strategic propagandic tactic of the modern Islamic Supremacist political movement was the creation of, and is the propagation of, the 'Palestinian movement' - which is a tactic of vilifying of "The Jews" - Israel - and which is a tactic that is constituted by the invention of, and propagation of, lies that vilify Israel and that obfuscate the actual history and current reality of the 'Palestinian movement' and that obfuscate the actual history and current reality of the situation, and which is a process of vilification and obfuscation that is being colluded with by the West.
O The 'Palestinian movement' was created by Amin al-Husseini, who, in 1920, incited and caused Arab murderous anti-Jewish riots in the British Mandate of Palestine, and who, in 1921, was appointed, by British officials, to the position of Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, and who, in 1928, joined the Muslim Brotherhood, and who was an early influential member of the Muslim Brotherhood, and who, in 1935, founded the Nazi-influenced Nazi-allied Palestinian Arab Party, and who, from 1941 to 1945, resided in Germany, and was an adjoined official of the Nazi regime of Germany, and who, with his colleague, Adolf Eichmann, was the co-architect of the genocide of the Jewish people in Europe by the Nazi regime of Germany, and who, in 1948, as the head of the Arab Higher Committee, coordinated the 1948 Muslim Arab self-proclaimedly intendedly genocidal attack on Israel by the armies of five Arab states, lauched several days after Israel was voted a country in the United Nations by a majority vote, and who was the mentor of, and an uncle of, Egyptian-born Yasser Arafat (Mohammed Yasser Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini), who, in 1954, in Egypt, under the guidance of Amin al-Husseini, founded Fatah.

Also, I think that maybe we - those of us who are engaged in the effort against the modern Islamic Supremacist political movement - should, also, as a part of the effort against the modern Islamic Supremcist political movement, discern and identify, and seek out, and make common cause with, people who are Muslim who are actual true 'moderate' Muslim (actual, true, reform, ethical, non-Islamic-Supremacist, Muslim) who are true allies in the effort against the Jihad. However, I think that doing that is secondary to doing, and, I think that that may occur naturally as a result of doing, that which I have described and which, in doing, is the primary course of action that we need to take.

Ironically, Jewish people building houses in Israel is still called building "settlements," as if they are "settling" some vast, uncharted wilderness belonging to "Palestinians." Then, global jihadists make the magnanimous declaration that if Israel hands over Jerusalem there will be no problem letting Israelis be dhimmis in Jerusalem? Well, handing over Gaza worked out so well (i.e., they got away with the plunder and the aggressive victim-hood) that perhaps they thought the world would not blink if they took Jerusalem now too.

nemo

re. one of the newer members of our forum, Daniel Bielak.

Not long after he first stepped out onto the comments floor, Daniel shared with us the fact that he suffers from Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, which he said severely affects his ability to write and communicate, as well as messing up his life in other ways. I think he was being honest with us about that - in any case, after he offered that explanation, the peculiar and sometimes repetitive and laboured style of his postings made sense to me.

It is probably worth bearing his OCD in mind, when reading his posts.

Think of him as a wounded soldier. He makes a huge and painful effort to participate here.

That doesn't mean that his brethren, like you, shouldn't give him a few gentle hints and good advice every now and again.

And if there is anyone among the regulars or lurkers here who has professional or personal knowledge of OCD and how it can be managed and ameliorated, I think their counsel would be appreciated.

dumbledoresarmy,

Thank you very much for your support. It is a rescuing support for me.

dumbledoresarmy,

Your understanding and kindness is an emotionally and psychologically rescuing support for me.

Thank you.