Ethiopian Muslims warn Christians to convert, leave city or face death

The irresistible appeal of Islamic dawah makes more converts in Ethiopia. "Ethiopian Muslims Warn Christians to Convert, Leave City or Face Death," from International Christian Concern, January 25:

Washington, D.C. (January 25, 2011)-International Christian Concern (ICC) has learned that Christians in the Ethiopian city of Besheno are being harassed and physically abused after Muslims posted notices on the doors of Christian homes warning them to convert, leave the city or face death.

Three Christian leaders were forced to flee the city and two Christians have been forced to convert to Islam. In the Muslim majority city, the entire evangelical Christian community consists of about 30 believers.

Evangelist Kassa Awano remains in critical condition after Muslims attacked him on November 29, 2010. A few days after the attack, nearly 100 Muslims surrounded a vehicle carrying Christian leaders on their way to negotiate for peace with Muslim leaders. Two men, Tesema Hirego and Niggusie Denano, were seriously wounded, and the other leaders suffered minor injuries. On January 2, Muslims assaulted Temesgen Peteros with a knife after he testified about the attacks on these Christians in court.

Christians in Besheno have been targeted by Muslims for many years. On May 21, 2004, Muslims murdered the 7 year-old daughter of Evangelist Tesfaye Hobe. Muslims continuously attack Christians for listening to Christian songs and watching Christian videos....

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It should not be forgotten that Ethiopia is not an 'Islamic' country overall.

It has its own version of Christianity: the Ethiopian Orthodox Church.

Historically, the kingdom of Abyssinia managed to fend off the Muslim sea surrounding it.

From the CIA world factbook

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/et.html

The total population is around 88 million.

Percentages of various religions:

Orthodox 43.5%, Muslim 33.9%, Protestant 18.6%, traditional 2.6%, Catholic 0.7%, other 0.7% (2007 Census).

This means that Christians of *all* varieties - Orthodox, Protestant (most fervently evangelical) and Catholic add up to about 62 % - a clear majority over the Muslims.

But, obviously, it appears from this story that the Christians, though a majority overall, are concentrated in some regions of the country and the Muslims in others; and the Muslims, as always, appear to be bent on creating 'no-go' zones and totally dominating - by violence and all the other ugly means that they know so well how to employ - those areas where they are most numerous.

Islam is a marching deathcult.

Sent forth by Zombie Master Mohammad to devour the minds of all thinking men and women.

The Koran is a book of dismal spells to mesmerize the hapless into terrorizing the planet in order to establish a global gulag run by theocratic crazies.

This is just one more sick symptom of a diseased dogma.

One might have though that Christian-majority Ethiopia would be secure after Muslim-majority Eritrea split off. But this is no more true for Ethiopia vis-a-vis Eritrea than for India vis-a-vis Pakistan.

From the article:

Ethiopian Muslims warn Christians to convert, leave city or face death
...........................

It seems these Muslims are not even "offering" Christians the traditional third option of dhimmitude—but likely only because that might be harder to pull off in a Christian-majority nation.

More:

The irresistible appeal of Islamic dawah makes more converts in Ethiopia. "Ethiopian Muslims Warn Christians to Convert, Leave City or Face Death"
...........................

For most of us, this would seem to have less to do with Da'wa, and more to do with violent Jihad. Of course, that is only if you translate "Da'wa" as "proselytizing"—but it is in reality much more aggressive than that.

More:

Evangelist Kassa Awano remains in critical condition after Muslims attacked him on November 29, 2010. A few days after the attack, nearly 100 Muslims surrounded a vehicle carrying Christian leaders on their way to negotiate for peace with Muslim leaders...
...........................

My God. I think the above—especially the final line and the Muslim response to it—just about sums things up.

And yet brain dead American pastors and priests join with muslims who demand mosques be built in the few places permits have been denied in the US (DuPage County). They are so uninformed that they are a danger to their congregations whom they are leading to their deaths. Islam is a death cult. Murder is it's most basic and precious tenet.

Gravenimage, you've just laid your finger on Islam's ONLY argument: violence, or the threat thereof.

dumbledoresarmy, thanks for such brilliant information. I cannot understand why NATO cannot go into this kind of countries to prevent Islamic Nazi-like terrorists from committing Genocide/Holocaust on non-Muslims especially Jews and Christians. More so in ancient Christian Ethiopia! The West have betrayed the Jews and Christians to be slaughtered such as by the Nazis - history is repeating itself but it's of no concern to these Western leaders because it's not in Western soil; that's why most of them can't even support Israel! I really think the Arab-led Muslims have always advised the God-hating Socialist Hitler and the Nazis on Jew/Christian-hatred!

The Ethiopian army should sort those guys out. And the local Christians should arm themselves.

Door by door. Block after block. Section following section. From the city into the countryside. From town to town......until an entire nation is ruined.....this is Islam's usual modus operandi.

"Submit or die!"

This heinous ideology, wrapped up in a satanic crust labeled "Allah" and "sharia," is far more dangerous, much more insidious, than any threat posed by the equally evil, but secular, ideologies of fascism and communism.

These fellows understand only one thing - war:

"Islam spread to Eritrea around 615 AD with the arrival of Osman Bin Afan, one of the four disciples of the Prophet Mohammed. Osman had been driven out of Saudi Arabia and found shelter in Tigray under the protection of the Axumite king..

Another great power came in the person of the Imam of Harrar, Ahmad bin Ibrahim, better known as Ahmad Gran (the left-handed). In 1530 he began to attack the plateau. Within four years he laid waste to all of the Christian highlands, including Tigre and Eritrea. He converted hundreds of thousands to Islam by force. Only by surrender and conversion could people save their lives. The Christian nobility survived only as a hunted band.

Only the intervention of the Portuguese transformed the flow of events. They landed at Massawa in 1541 and helped the Eritreans and Tigre to drive the Imams forces from the plateau. The Muslim forces dispersed, retreated and disappeared."

http://www.eritrea.be/old/eritrea-religions.htm

Either there's been another hijacking of Islam
or the Ethiopians started it.

The shariah is clear. The Ethiopians
were dear to Muhammad's heart, for the service
they rendered his community when it was weakest. They
are one of just two peoples who cannot be attacked
simply for being non-Muslims:

``Muslims are not permitted to be the ones
to open hostilities with the Ethiopians.
This is because the Messenger of Allah (ss) said:
`Let the Ethiopians alone as long as they let you alone.' ''

> jcl

OK, Hold it now. I know muslims have been giving us a hard time for a long time. Ethiopia is the oldest Christian country in the world. Christianity arrived in Ethiopia when Philip met the Ethiopian eunuch and baptised him.

I'm Ethiopian and i'm not liking this. I'm a born again Christian. No matter how much it frustrates me to see my country being destroyed, i know from the Holy Bible that Ethiopia will be one of the many countries that will attack Israel in the last days. and the only way that Bible prophecy to be fulfilled is for Ethiopia to become a muslim majority. So whether i like it or not it must be done......sad just sad.

I will never stop loveing my country no matter what.....They have held on to Christianity for a long time and fought to keep their faith in Jesus Christ, even when the muslims tried to destroy it. And most Americans Think by allowing the muslims to have freedom of religion/cult in this country will make the muslims peaceful with them.

"Even what the fool believes to be true may be only his worthless opinion. The tongue of the wise makes knowledge acceptable, But the mouth of fools spouts folly" Proverbs 15:2.

The ethiopian christians are not free of crimes.

Since muslims are forbidden from castrating and creating eunuchs, it was delegated to others to do the task and then sell eunuch slaves to the ottoman Empire. Ethiopian christians were among the chief producers of eunuchs by raiding surrounding pagan peoples, subjecting their boys to cruel removal of their genitalia, and selling them in muslim slave markets.

by the way, you seem to have a major obessesion of bringing up irrelevant countries with muslim minorities in a post and then blowing them out of proportion.

ethiopia has the same problem as thailand, as i will explain below

you mention the philipinnes and thailand repeatedly. While you are correct on the philippines, thailand is "not" a case where islam is causing a problem.

Thailand has muslim minorities besines malays, such as muslim Hui, descended from chinese muslims who were either merchants or refugees from rebellions in China, they have prospered in thailand and once one of their leading merchants received a Quran from the King.

The thai kings have welcomed the Hui muslims from china into their community, allowing mosques to be built and trade to flourish, and no violence occurs. 200 mosques are in bangkok, 3,000 in all of thailand, the thai king recognizes islam and rebuilts mosques and sponsors translations of the quran.

In addition, Thai have their own muslims descended from foreign muslims who married thai hundreds of years ago, like Sonthi Boonyaratglin, a descendant of a persian Sheikh Ahmad Qomi. Like the Hui of china, who are descended from foriegn muslims who married Chinese, they have mixed extensively with thai and speak thai as their native language. Hui in thailand are proud to be thai and work with the thai government with islamic affairs, and are also friendly with the king.

Sonthi Boonyaratglin was a top ranking General in the Thai army and commanded the thai military during the malay insurgency. Hui and thai muslims have no problems fighting against Malay troublemakers. Sonthi even participated in a pagan fortune telling ritual.

Chinese Hui and Thai muslims identify as thai people, and speak thai. on the other hand, Malays speak malay as their native language, and are extremely racist, regarding non malay muslims as inferior. Chinese muslim Hui in malaysia were given the same nasty treatment as non muslim Han were given, so most of them in malaysia absorbed into the chinese community, alienated by malaysian behavior.

The root cause of the insurgency in thailand is not islam, but simple malay racism and pride, unwilling to adopt thai culture like the hui.

now back to ethiopia, ethiopia has many ethnic groups, and no doubt the problem in ethiopia is the same as the thai problem, that is, ethnicity, not religion, is fuelling hatred.

in the philipinnes, everyone there is of the same austronesian race, both christian and muslim, so their problem is religious.

T,

You wrote "...the only way that Bible prophecy to be fulfilled is for Ethiopia to become a muslim majority."

There is no such prophecy in the Bible about Muslims.

horse,

You wrote:
"The ethiopian christians are not free of crimes.
Since muslims are forbidden from castrating and creating eunuchs, it was delegated to others to do the task and then sell eunuch slaves to the ottoman Empire. Ethiopian christians were among the chief producers of eunuchs by raiding surrounding pagan peoples, subjecting their boys to cruel removal of their genitalia, and selling them in muslim slave markets."

1. You provide no evidence for your wide sweeping claim that Muslims were forbidden from castrating people who were to become slaves under Islamic rule.

2. You admit at least that the Ottoman Empire agreed with slavery and the castration of people who were to become slaves.

3. You provide no reasons as to why you think Christians today, such as the Christians in the above news article are guilty, i.e., "not free of crimes." You are attempting to attribute collective guilt to Christians today based on what you allege other Christians did during the Ottoman Empire.

You wrote:
"now back to ethiopia, ethiopia has many ethnic groups, and no doubt the problem in ethiopia is the same as the thai problem, that is, ethnicity, not religion, is fuelling hatred."

Are any non-Muslims in Ethiopia engaging in forced conversion to a religion?

Correction:

For
"Are any non-Muslims in Ethiopia engaging in forced conversion to a religion?"

I meant "Are any non-Muslims in Ethiopia engaging in forcing others to convert to their religion?"

Observe, ladies and gentlemen, a Muslim pops up, 'horse'.

Throwing showers of sand, as usual.

Notice, first of all, the utterly typical tu quoque.

And then a mass of obfuscation.

MOhammedans just *hate* it when we kafir start 'connecting the dots' and noticing that no matter where they live in the world, Muslims behave in much the same way toward the non-Muslims around them.

When few or 'weak' vis a vis the surrounding or neighbouring non-Muslims (and I would guess this is the case of certain of the apparently 'assimilated' Muslims in the Buddhist-majority parts of Thailand) the Muslims bide their time, play nice...and strive all the time, whether openly or surreptitiously, to grow stronger, to grow in numbers, to seize power...and once they do, then they don't play nice any longer.

That transition, or phase shift, from lying low and playing nice, to seizing local power and then proceeding to the vicious thuggery that the Quran, Sira and Hadith sacralise and prescribe, has happened in many heavily-Islamised neighbourhoods of the UK and France.

When strong, Muslims behave absolutely atrociously toward anyone weaker than themselves.

That overall pattern is perfectly clear to anyone who spends any time at all looking at the historical data, past and present.

Wherever there are Muslims, there - sooner or later, depending on how numerous and strong, or perceived-to-be-strong, the surrounding or neighbouring non-Muslims are - will be Jihad.

@Horse:

I suspect that the peoples of Ethiopia will be surprised to learn that they are (as you say) just another "irrelevant country".

Their population is about the same as Egypt or Turkey. And those are the two largest Muslim countries in the entire Middle East.

The Ethiopians have an incredibly rich literature that is far older than that of the Muslim tradition. They can also pride themselves on having the first Christian emperor and empire.

I suspect the only reason you're so quick to dismiss them as irrelevant is because they are black. And where I come from that's call racism.

As for what you call their little problem with ethnic strife ... you may wish to learn a little about the monster Ahmed Gragn and his crimes. He was a 16th-century genocidal Muslim with morals to match the murderous Mahmud of Ghazna. The Ethiopian jihad is a battle that's ebbed and flowed over the centuries, but it has been inexorable.

At present Ethiopia has Africa's best equipped, best trained, and largest army. If the ICU keeps making trouble, I figure they may learn this first hand.

It's a dangerous game that's being played. When the mujahidin attack African Christians, they're playing with a fire that burns very, very hot. Pentecostal zeal, modern armaments, and military professionalism make for a lethal combination.

"Submit or die!"

Maybe...but not alone.

In case you missed it, as you clearly miss much, you just had your muslim apologist ass handed to you!


No islam...Know Peace.
Know islam...Throw Up!

@Horse:

I might also note that there is no Muslim on the face of the earth who can be proud of Islam's record on slavery. The paragraphs below are from a description of the practice in Saudi in 1961, the year before the practice was abolished, forcibly and much to the anger of the ulama. That's 1962 for the mathematically challenged. And the king only took the drastic step because Nasser was having way too much fun mocking the kingdom for its medieval practices. (Fortunately, just a small portion of modern scholars in Saudi are advocating for a return of slavery.)


"The slave population was estimated at 450,000... Slave auctions are no longer held regularly, only in an alley in Mecca." {BRITS HAD BEEN PUTTING PRESSURE ON SHIPPING SLAVES FOR ALMOST A CENTURY}

"I was awakened by shouts and screams coming from the courtyard. Rushing to the window I looked down to see a dozen slaves being herded through a door at the far end of the yard. They were being driven in like cattle by three hefty guards armed with long lashed whips. Even as I watched, one of the poor wretches, a Sudanese girl with huge breasts, received a savage lash across her naked buttocks let out a shriek of agony."

"As the next slave was led in, a murmur of excitement went up among the buyers and they crowded closer around the rostrum. He was a slender boy of about 12 years old with beautiful classical Arab features. Although much has been written about Arab brotherhood and solidarity, I knew that the Arab has no compunction in enslaving his fellows should they fall into his hands."

"The boy was naked and tried to cover his privates with his little hands and he ran up the steps of the rostrum... there is an age old saying among the Bedouin: "A goat for use, a girl for enjoyment, but a boy for ecstasy". {GOT THAT?} He (the now purchased slave boy) was claimed by a tall bearded Arab who led him from the rostrum with an arm around his waist". {NOT MUCH ELSE TO DO IN MECCA ON THE WEEKEND?}

"Only one offense was severely punished; attempting to escape from the harem... The wretched girl {IMAGINE, SHE DOESN'T LIKE GETTIN' RAPED} was stripped and spread eagle in the courtyard...punishment was administer by a eunuch, a huge powerful Negro who seemed to enjoy his task. 70 lashes were given."

"Because of this (the fact that eunuchs can perform sexually), the eunuch often has his penis removed as well as his testicle."

===

Again, 1962 ... 1 9 6 2

I at least find such behavior less than respectable, in the modern world.

Horse, if you are going to talk about Ethiopian Christians and their crimes, why not start with their crimes? Particularly those of being Christian and not mulsim.

I am not certain, but the strain of islam in Thailand, was it historically Wahabist or has that been a recent introduxtion? I ask about wahabism as that appears to be the seat of violence everywhere it goes.

Do not take me wrong, I greatly appreciate what muslims have done for the world in way of math and architecture. The Moors of Spain are an example ... although, one has to wonder why they left their native lands? One also has to wonder what became of them? Oh, yes, they were wiped out by marauding muslims and the Spaniards who were trying to reclaim their Catholic history from islam.

Well, I can certainly credit the muslim activities for at least one part of the U.S. Consitution. It was during the times of the Barbary Coast Pirates that the fledgling U.S. gained its independence and became another source of income for the pirates and their muslims leaders. So, after meeting to negotiate with the islamic pirate leadership, the Consitution was written to enable to Congress to raise and deploy a Navy/ That Navy still has today as part of its primary mission maintaining safe and free sea lanes.

I must admit that I had digressed from the original thought ... that being the argument of Christian crimes against others. Well, the searches I have done do not reveal crimes large enough to warrant genocidal responses. Sure, there are "Christians" who rape and assault others; but, not anywhere near the breadth and depth to which muslims do it ... today. I also looked to history for this as that is where mohamadians (funny, how so many names in a movement that abhores and abstains from pork have the word'ham' in them) look to justify their actions today.

That last point bears repeating ... I also looked to history for this as that is where mohamadians look to justify their actions today. In a Republic (a society governed by just laws) The crimes committed of today and those of yesteryear are attributed to the ones who committed them. Jack The Ripper killed those women, not the white lords of England. The Son of Sam shot those ladies, not white middle-class suburbia. Dahmer killed and ate those people. It was those criminals who were sought to pay for their crimes and t oanswer for them not the entire segment of society they were from.

Wake up, Horse!!! Welcome to the 21st Century!!!!

Door by door. Block after block. Section following section. From the city into the countryside. From town to town......until an entire nation is ruined.....this is Islam's usual modus operandi.

Exactly what is happening in Europe.

Brother T:

Seeing ethnic Israel as the focus of divine purposes in the last days is not the only way Christians have read the Old and New Testaments. Many of the attacks of Ethiopians on Israel in the Old Testament refer to the times when the Ethiopians/Nubians (people of Cush) ruled Egypt while there were still kings in Judah.

The focus of God's purposes are those gathered around the Messiah--Jesus--whether Jew or Gentile. The marching orders we have from King Jesus are to make disciples of all nations, hence the Evangelical brethren in Ethiopia have my prayers for their success (although I am not Ethiopian). My prayer is that this unhappy episode is only one incident where God, in his providence, refines his people to make them stronger and better. And my prayer for Muslims is that they will see through the falsehoods in the Qur'an and Hadith to come to know the real Jesus, too. If the Muslim god wants cut-off heads all over the place, our God wants people born again into new life.

So, don't be fatalistic about Ethiopia. The Prophet Isaiah says that Ethiopia will stretch out her hands to God, and this is happening. May it continue to happen (and may it continue to happen to all nations).

DDA and Horse:

I lived in Thailand for two years, including visits to the area from Chieng Mai and north, know the Thai and Chinese languages, and accept that a lot of what Horse says about Islam in Thailand is true. There is a lot of Thai patriotism among certain Thai Muslim communities (if not in the far south), and much loyal service to the monarch and Thai state from members of thoset communities. There is no Muslim separatism among the ethnic Chinese (Jin Haw) Muslims of northern Thailand, even though there are many markers of Islamic observance among them. I will further add that back in the 1990's, when I was in Thailand, the attitude of Hui in northern Thailand towards any non-Communist Westerners, was invariably friendly--especially if you spoke either Thai, Chinese, or both; and regardless of religion (I am an observant Christian of the Reformed persuasion). Further, although dietary rules preclude Hui and non-Muslim Yunnanese from eating together, relations between the Jin Haw of various religions also tend to be amicable.

In Republican China, at least, and still in Taiwan, there is also a lot of generalized Chinese patriotism among the Hui. I have often wondered if some rumblings among the Hui in Mainland China (as opposed to problems among the Uighur and other Turkic peoples) may not be part of a widespread, smoldering anti-Communist dissent shared with many other Chinese people. Certainly, Islamic belief has to raise tensions with an avowedly anti-theistic state. But, Hui are not the only Chinese who are producing dissidents. When the Romanians shot official China's great friend Nicolae Ceaucescu, and announced over their state radio "the anti-Christ is dead", ordinary Chinese people flooded the Romanian embassy in Beijing with congratulatory letters, cards, notes, and the like. And, I will add, that I myself have received friendly treatment from Hui in both Taiwan and Mainland China.

The above are comments I make in the interest of fairness--even if I don't buy the argument that "Islam has been hijacked by a tiny minority of extremists".

However, I would not dismiss the violence in southern Thailand as simple ethnic tension undiluted by religious issues. Islamicist ideology is pretty virulent in Malaysia, and has indeed crossed a relatively open border with Thailand.


Isn't it about time that thar Western Christians started a new Crusade? I'm old and fairly fit but I'd be up for it. Wouldn't matter to me if I died protecting the west.

Thailand has muslim minorities besines malays, such as muslim Hui, descended from chinese muslims who were either merchants or refugees from rebellions in China, they have prospered in thailand and once one of their leading merchants received a Quran from the King.

The thai kings have welcomed the Hui muslims from china into their community, allowing mosques to be built and trade to flourish, and no violence occurs. 200 mosques are in bangkok, 3,000 in all of thailand, the thai king recognizes islam and rebuilts mosques and sponsors translations of the quran.

In addition, Thai have their own muslims descended from foreign muslims who married thai hundreds of years ago, like Sonthi Boonyaratglin, a descendant of a persian Sheikh Ahmad Qomi. Like the Hui of china, who are descended from foriegn muslims who married Chinese, they have mixed extensively with thai and speak thai as their native language. Hui in thailand are proud to be thai and work with the thai government with islamic affairs, and are also friendly with the king.

Sonthi Boonyaratglin was a top ranking General in the Thai army and commanded the thai military during the malay insurgency. Hui and thai muslims have no problems fighting against Malay troublemakers. Sonthi even participated in a pagan fortune telling ritual.

Chinese Hui and Thai muslims identify as thai people, and speak thai. on the other hand, Malays speak malay as their native language, and are extremely racist, regarding non malay muslims as inferior. Chinese muslim Hui in malaysia were given the same nasty treatment as non muslim Han were given, so most of them in malaysia absorbed into the chinese community, alienated by malaysian behavior.

The root cause of the insurgency in thailand is not islam, but simple malay racism and pride, unwilling to adopt thai culture like the hui.

now back to ethiopia, ethiopia has many ethnic groups, and no doubt the problem in ethiopia is the same as the thai problem, that is, ethnicity, not religion, is fuelling hatred.

in the philipinnes, everyone there is of the same austronesian race, both christian and muslim, so their problem is religious.

==================================================
You are an IGNORAMUS and an illiterate KNAVE..

Not all MALAYS are racist....dogmatic Malays
are dogmatic in the way all radical Muslims are..
there are many secular Malays. The problem
in Yala and Narathiwat is because of Jihadist
Muslim Malay radicals influenced by Al-Qaeda
and Salafi ideology-it is NOT because ethnic
Malays in Thailand are "racist". Ethnic Hui
in Thailand are negligible. Your knowledge
of geography is both deplorable and abyssmal.
Sonthi is a Muslim..so what ? He is 1/8 Persian..
so what ? Former FM Surin Pitsuwan (a Thai Muslim)
also has Arab blood...Thailand has both Malay and
ethnic Thai Muslims..many are secular and many
(in the south) are radicalized and are common
criminals and drug dealers.

Filipinos are not "Austronesian". They are
Malayo-Polynesian, like Malays and Javanese
and related ethnic groups. Austronesian ethnic
groups are Papuan and New Hebridean and perhaps
Melanesian groups like Fijian.

The Thai military has been a dismal failure in
the south. Your chauvanistic comments about
Malays and your moniker "horse", a popular
metaphor in Chinese culture, suggest you
are a Chinese chauvanist who knows little
about Malay culture and less about Ethiopia.
I repeat: Islam is a problem because of
doctrine and Quranic principles not because
of any particular ethnic group that is Muslim
regardless of how long they have been practicing
Islam (whether Malay, Thai, Hui, Uighur,
Arab or whatever).

Regarding the castration of slaves, there is no evidence that Ethiopian Christians were involved. Geneticist C. D. Darlington summarizes the massive extent of such Muslim castration of slaves:

“On the other side we see millions of Negro slaves have been carried off from tropical Africa to Arabia, Egypt, Turkey, Persia and the Maghrib. But they have left very little trace among living people. … Certainly Negro slaves have been bred on a small scale and the effects of hybridization may be seen in the villages of Arabia and North Africa. But in general it is clear that the Negro slave has been sterilized. Castration in meeting the demand for black eunuchs has been one factor. Infanticide, abortion, perversion … are other factors.”

Andrew Bostom also notes that castration was carried out on a massive scale with devastating results:

“…when the castration was carried out in sub-Saharan West and West-Central Africa…a figure of 90% [mortality is] often mentioned. Even higher death rates were occasionally reported, unsurprising in tropical areas where the danger of infection of wounds was especially high. At least one contemporary price quotation supports a figure of over 90% mortality: Turkish merchants are said to have been willing to pay 250 to 300 (Maria Theresa) dollars each for eunuchs in Borno (northeast Nigeria) at a time when the local price of young male slaves does not seem to have exceeded about 20 dollars…Many sources indicate very high death rates from the operation in eastern Africa.. Richard Millant’s [1908] general figure for the Sudan and Ethiopia is 90%”

It may be that such castration took place before the slaves were brought into Muslim territory but was carried out by Arab slave traders. It is a Sudanese historian, Yusuf Hasan, who observes young black male slaves may have been victimized twice owing to Muslim law. Sharia permits and encourages mass slavery; however it also forbids castration. Nubian males were the slaves most favored “as custodians of wealth and families. The eunuchs among them were particularly suited for this last type of work. The operation of castration was apparently carried out outside the boundaries of the Muslim world as it is condemned by Muslim law.” Thus, Muslim law required that the operation of castration be carried out in particularly dangerous locations and circumstances; the prohibition against castration proved to be no favor to the ultimate victims.

From post above...The root cause of the insurgency in thailand is not islam, but simple malay racism and pride, unwilling to adopt thai culture like the hui.

Islam is the religion of trouble...It effects everything it touches...Islam is the reverse of the 'Midas Touch', everything gold turns into lead...Allah comes first, because of that it is not possible to divorce Islam from being a 'root cause'...If you add Allah, Mahound, Quran, racism and pride, you have Islam...

The Son of Sam shot those ladies, not white middle-class suburbia. Dahmer killed and ate those people. It was those criminals who were sought to pay for their crimes and t oanswer for them not the entire segment of society they were from.

None of them were Mahoundians on jihad...Not all Mahoundians are terrorist, but they are all 'obligated' to jihad...It is a 'duty' in Islam...It is not the society that needs to be condemned, it is Islam...the source of the problem...

T....what is termed as "Ethiopia" in the Holy Bible is the land south of Egypt, which we refer to today as "Sudan"(and extending all the way across the Sahel zone to West Africa)not the country of Ethiopia today which used to be called Abyssinia, which only got its name of Ethiopia during the reign of Menelik II during the 19th Century. The Ethiopian eunich who met Philip was from the Meroitic kingdom which is located in what is today northern Sudan. So it is not prophetic that today's Ethiopia will become Muslim. Rather, it is northern Sudan and, likely the other Muslim states across northern Africa which is being referred to (if such a prophecy even exists in the Bible .... I'm not aware of any).

I also was born in Ethiopia, and see the radical Islamization there as tragic. Alamoudi now owns so much land there (just look at what he owns between Sheshamane and Awassa), that his stranglehold on the country is becoming intense. Ethiopia's leaders -- and church community -- need to wake up before its too late. Ethiopia has fought off Islamic aggression before, it can do so again.

rbla....

The castration of non Muslims by Muslims is common in Sudan, especially in the south. I have personally spoken with Southern Sudanese who were castrated. If castration is against sharia law, someone needs to inform Khartoum's clerics and political despots.

You can lead a HORSE to water, but you can't make it drink ...

...drink the Truth about islam and muhammad.

It has been well argued that once the muslims reaches 20% of countrys total population then the violence starts, Ethiopia should know that from past experiance.
When there was a famine there and thousands were dying daily from starvation they were never off the news. where are all the do gooders now highlighting the plight of the people.
Where ever Islam go,s so does death, it is a form of human culling. They will soon kill there way to power.

Afikomen, you really need to learn english. You mean "demographics" (which refers to the composition of a country by ethnicity, religion, and other factors), not "geography" (which refers to land)

"Malayo-Polynesian", is the same as austronesian.

Papuan and New Hebridean and perhaps
Melanesian groups like Fijian are AUSTRALOID, not austronesian.

saying hui in thailand are negligible is a BIG insult to their success in business and other areas compared to other groups.

When did i say the thai military was a success? Do you need glasses or something?

Not all malays are racist eh? please tell me why "Ketuanan Melayu" and the constitution of malaysia protects malays in a racist manner from other groups? How come i met some people who convert to islam and still get treat like shit by malay?

I suppose since my username horse indicates something about myself, that dumbledoresarmy is a secret wizard who attends hogwarts school and waves his magic wand to perform spells.

If i was a Chinese chauvanist i would not be defending muslims or foreigners. If i was a Chinese chauvanist i would be gleefully attacking Hui and other religious and ethnic minorities in China, denigrating all of them as well as you foreigners as trash, and lauding the racists in chinese history like Ran Min, Huang Chao, and the others. The very existence of hui is an affront to chauvanism in china, since racial laws were put into place over 1,000 years ago preventing chinese and foreigners from mixing, and the existence of Hui belies that racist idea.

There are NON salafi, and NON sufi Hui in china, who belong to the "old teaching", and they don't have any problems or cause any trouble, but they are not secularlists either, they just practice their religion and want to be left alone.

Its the salafi hui who have recently emerged who are figuring in riots between hui and han people in qinghai, its them who i don't like, but there is no problem with other hui who are devoutly religious.

Muslims have already been in power in Thailand, muslim general Sonthi Boonyaratglin was Commander-in-Chief of the thai army, and he has committed no subversive actions, nor have any other hui or thai muslims.

go read kepha's testimony on thai and hui muslims in thailand and you will see i am not lying

Mel,
I have no doubt that you are correct. Muslims are quite capable of ignoring even their own wretched doctrines when it suits their convenience. Sharia requires that they not harm those "people of the book" who make no disturbance and pay the jizya. Yet look how many times in Islamic history that has been violated and even today in Muslim majority nations. You can't find a more obsequious group of Muslim appeasers than the Palestinian Christians, yet they are being driven out of their native lands. Many Muslims are hypocrites even according to the low standards set by Sharia.

Tell me horse...what do you think of your "perfect man" having sex with a corpse?
What about the fact that he had sex with a 9 year old? You down with that?
He enjoyed having men lick his chest...kinda gay don't you think?
What do you think about him getting off on sucking on the tongues of young boys...and girls?
Defend that...

islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.

To 'Mel', and 'T', who have identified themselves as non-Muslim Ethiopians:

a heartfelt 'Welcome!'

Please stay around, and share your experiences and insights with us.

If any Islam-related news stories come up in the Ethiopian press, pass them to Mr Spencer: I assume there may be at least one Ethiopian media outfit that uses English?

If something is only printed in Amharic, please give us a translation, or at least a summary.

Jihadwatch needs a few 'African correspondents'. We have a significant Indian contingent, and one or two non-Muslims from Malaysia, and some Filipinos who drop by, and we have Israelis, north Americans (Canada and US), Australians, British and Europeans, but we have almost no-one from Africa...we desperately need contacts in Anglophone Africa, where the Jihad is raging at the moment.

By the way, you may also like to visit the 'New English Review' blog, which also covers and discusses the world's 'jihad news'.

http://www.newenglishreview.org/

It features quite a few stories from the 'African front' of the Global Jihad. Lately, of course, it's run a number of stories and articles to do with the situation in the Sudan.

Here is one article they ran recently:

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/31902

Friday, 14 January 2011
Will Freedom Come for Sudan's Slaves?


I think they'd be delighted to hear some Christian voices from Ethiopia.

"If something is only printed in Amharic, please give us a translation, or at least a summary."

Better to get arabic or english language news sources from Sudan or Egypt which give real reliable updates on information.

The Ansar leader Al Saqid Al Mahdi, descendant of Muhammad Al Mahdi who established the Mahdist state, gave an interview to al ahram news.

Al Sadiq Al Mahdi, a former prime minister of Sudan, gave his views on the current situation-

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/2/8/4334/World/Region/Former-Sudanese-PM-AlMahdi-proposes-national-agend.aspx

"Sadiq al Mahdi:There is no doubt that the regime [of Al-Bashir] is responsible for the grudges and bitterness that currently exist between the north and the south. This is so for three reasons: one is the policies of Islamism and Arabism that made the regime so intolerant toward those who didn't fit tidily into either of the categories; another is the policies of the regime’s allies – those pushing for ethnic cleansing and those pseudo-Taliban groups who accuse everyone of being an atheist. The third reason arose through the current government's adversarial foreign relations policies which led to the emergence of strong foreign lobbies that now embrace the south and detest the north."

as you can see your assertions about north sudanese arabs being radicals is wrong. There is nothing wrong with sadiq al mahdi's views.

and as you can clearly see here, kepha, who has been to thailand himself, backed up the point that MANY hui (contrary to afikomen's claims about hui being few) live in northern thailand and are loyal supporters of the thai king. a quick internet search will bring up several hui mosques in thailand if you look it up, and see how situation in thailand is peaceful except for malay rabblerousers.

Ladies and gentlemen

observe.

Our latest Mohammedan spin doctor tells us that if we want the truth about events in, say, Ethiopia, or Islamic Egypt, or in the Sudan, we must consult the - government-controlled press - in Sudan and Egypt.

"Better [rather than reading the reports from the press in non-Islamic Ethiopia] to get arabic or english language news sources from Sudan or Egypt which give real reliable updates on information."

ROFLMAO.

That's like an apologist for the communists, in the middle of the Cold War, telling people to read Pravda and the state-controlled rags of Red China, if they want 'real reliable updates on information'.

There is NO freedom of the press, as we in the west think of that, in Egypt or Sudan. And there is no such thing, anywhere in dar al Islam, as respect for objective truth, none whatsoever. Every non-Muslim who has ever spent a significant amount of time there has learned that, from bitter experience.

Yeah, suuure the Egyptian Muslim press will tell us the truth about the continual Muslim abuse of the Copts, and the Sudanese Muslim press will tell us the truth about what the Janjaweed rape-pillage-and-murder parties have been up to in the past thirty years, and the genocidal treatment of the Nuba Mountain peoples, and of the South Sudanese Christians and animists, and of the despised black Muslims of Darfur...NOT.

'horse' is just a boring old Mohammedan liar who wants us to read and believe the brazen lies of vicious Islamic dictatorships that kill and persecute Christians and wink at the wholesale rape and forced 'conversion' of Christian women.


Hey there!
You! Worshiper of mo the pervert.
I asked you some questions.
You failed to answer them. Why? No guts to address the perversions of your false prophet?
Tell me...do you also worship the rotting corpse of the Ayatollah Khomeini whose putrid soul now burns in hell?...the writer of the Little Green Book of islamic Jurisprudence? Tell me...do you like what you find in that book? I'll just bet you do...
Now...prove you're no coward and answer my questions or lose by default.
C'mon...you must have an opinion about grown men sucking on the tongues of young boys and girls. Does this seem like the activities of a "holy man"? They do not. How do you explain this?

islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.

This guy is comedy gold...
I should ask the KKK about Blacks or the Taliban about Christians.
Ask the Commies in NoKo about Americans or the Foxes about the Chickens.
He is clearly not aware of who he's dealing with.
We've seen his kind plenty. So convinced of his superiority and that of his cult that he swaggers in with his throat exposed and thinks he's dressed in impenetrable armor, provided by his book of Death.
It takes quite a while before they realize that they have failed to win one single debate about anything before they turn tail and run away.
Some stay no matter what...they will never learn. The brainwashing went too well and too deep.

the government of Sudan is extensively backed up by Russia, who supplies most of its weapons, Russian instructors train the Sudanese military, and russia also backs up Sudan against the ICC regarding war crimes.

if you have a problem with Sudan, take it up with the Russians.

Intellectual cowardice seems to be your forte'.
therefore I will call you "punk' from now until you address my questions to you...punk. Coward.
Come get some...

No islam...Know Peace.
Know islam...Throw Up!

rbla,

You may be correct that in some Islamic law, Muslims were forbidden from directly engaging in the physical act of castrating slaves (or people who were to become slaves). From T.P. Hughes' authoritative Dictionary of Islam:

"EUNUCH Arabic khasi Although in all parts of the East it is usual for wealthy Muhammadans to keep an establishment of eunuchs to guard the female members of the household, it has been strictly forbidden by Muhammad for any of his followers to make themselves such or to make others. 'Usman ibn Maz'un came to him and said, "O Prophet! Permit me to become a eunuch." But Muhammad said, "He is not of my people who makes another a eunuch or becomes so himself. The manner in which my people become eunuchs is to exercise fasting." (Mishkat, iv c viii.)"

It appears that the wealthy Muslims who bought and used the castrated slaves were, in effect, subcontracting out the job of castration. It would seem that those defending this hypocritical policy were making a ridiculously technical interpretation of the law: They could demand castrated slaves, clearly condone others doing the actual cutting, then buy the slave and use them for their special characteristics as eunuchs.

My reading thus far suggests that the practice of castrating some subset of slaves, slaves to be used specifically for the purpose of guarding harems of wealthy or powerful Muslims, was a widespread practice throughout the Islamic world. I will quote the following excepts from my pdf of M. A. Khan's "Islamic Jihad: A Legacy of Forced Conversion‚ Imperialism‚ and Slavery" [note that the Roman numerals are for references]

p. 284
"Enslavement undoubtedly worsened during Akbar’s successors Jahangir (1605–27) and Shah Jahan (1628–58), under whose reigns, orthodoxy and Islamization was gradually revived. Emperor Jahangir in his memoir testifies of children in Bengal being castrated by helpless parents for giving ‘them to the governors as slaves in place of revenue.’ ‘This practice has become common,’ he adds. Said Khan Chaghtai, a noble of Jahangir, had ‘possessed 1,200 eunuch slaves alone,’ according to multiple testimonies.lxv Jahangir had sent some 200,000 Indian captives to Iran for sale in 1619–20 alone.lxvi"

p.284
"Under next Emperor Shah Jahan, the condition of the Hindu peasants had become unbearable. European traveler Manrique witnessed in Mughal India that the tax-collectors were carrying away destitute peasants along with their children and wives ‘to various markets and fairs’ for selling them to realize the tax. French physician and traveler Francois Bernier, who spend twelve years in India and was Emperor Aurangzeb’s personal doctor, affirms the same. He wrote of unfortunate peasants, who were incapable of paying taxes, that their children ‘were carried away as slave.’lxvii During Aurangzeb’s reign (1658–1707), considered devastating to the Hindus, some 22,000 young boys were emasculated in 1659 alone in the city of Golkunda (Hyderabad).lxviii They were to be given to Muslim rulers and governors, or
sold in slave-markets."

p. 287
"Ronald Segal, who is sympathetic to Islam,lxxxiii informs that African children of the age-group of ten to eleven years were captured in large numbers for military training to serve in the Muslim army. From Persia to Egypt to Morocco, slave armies consisting of 50,000 to 250,000 soldiers became commonplace.lxxxiv Similar to the rearing of the Ottoman Janissary soldiers (discussed below), Sultan Moulay Ismail used to pick up ten-year-olds from the black slave-breeding farms and nurseries, castrate them and train them into loyal and fierce fighters, called bukhari, because, they pledged allegiance to the sultan swearing by Sahih Bukhari. The best of these bukharis served as the sultan’s personal and palace guards; the rest served in maintaining orders in the provinces. He had 25,000 bukharis guarding his capital at Meknes, while 75,000 were stationed in the garrison town of Mahalla.lxxxv"

p. 314
"Castration was not performed on the black captives alone, but on captives of all shades and races: be it the blacks of Africa, the browns of India, the yellows of Central Asia or the whites of Europe. In the Middle Ages, notes Segal, Prague and Verdun became castration centers for white eunuchs, while Kharazon near the Caspian Sea for Central Asian eunuchs. Islamic Spain was another center for producing white eunuchs. At the beginning of the tenth century, Caliph al-Muqtadir (r. 908–937) had assembled in the Baghdad palace some 11,000 eunuchs: 7,000 Blacks and 4,000 Whites (Greek).clxxix"

p. 315
"The fate of the millions of European, Indian, Central Asian and Middle Eastern infidels—reduced to wearing the shackles of Islamic slavery—might not have been much different. Marco Polo (1280s) and Duarte Barbosa (1500s) witnessed largescale castrations in India; the same was occurring in the reign of Abkar (d. 1605), Jahangir (d. 1628) and Aurangzeb (d. 1707). Castration, therefore, was a common practice in India throughout the Muslim rule. It might have contributed to some extent to the decrease in India’s population from about 200 million in 1000 CE to
170 million in 1500 CE (discussed earlier)."

======================

One thing that's not entirely clear from the few hadiths that seem to forbid castration of humans is whether the very specific practice in question is forbidden. These hadiths could be read as only referring to Muslims doing it to "themselves" or other Muslims. That is, there are no hadiths that I've seen thus far that explicitly state that Muslims are forbidden from castrating non-Muslim slaves for the important (i.e., important to Islam) purpose of guarding the harems which Allah permitted. This is conspicuous, since the Quran sets the conditions that give rise to the demand for harems and harem guardians. The Quran permits Muslim males to have up to four wives at one time and an unlimited number of slave girls, i.e., any Muslim man with the means to do so can have a harem, thus creating a demand for a reliable guard. In addition, the Quran recognizes that male slaves or servants who lacked sexual desire were used in harems:

24:31 (Pickthall)
"And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and be modest, and to display of their adornment only that which is apparent, and to draw their veils over their bosoms, and not to reveal their adornment save to their own husbands or fathers or husbands' fathers, or their sons or their husbands' sons, or their brothers or their brothers' sons or sisters' sons, or their women, or their slaves, or male attendants who lack vigour,* or children who know naught of women's nakedness. And let them not stamp their feet so as to reveal what they hide of their adornment. And turn unto Allah together, O believers, in order that ye may succeed."

*Other translations:
Arberry: “such men as attend them, not having sexual desire”
Shakir: “the male servants not having need (of women)”
Sahih International: “male attendants having no physical desire”
Maududi: “male attendants incapable of sex desire”
Aisha Bewley: “male attendants who have no sexual desire”
Ali Ünal: “male attendants in their service free of sexual desire”
Bijan Moeinian: “male subordinates who do not have any sexual desire”

Tafsirs:
Al-Jalalayn “not […] possessing any sexual desire, [not] those men who are in [sexual] need of women, so for example those whose male member cannot become erect”

Ibn Abbas “(or male attendants who lack vigour) or male attendants who belong to their husbands who have no desire for women: i.e. eunuchs and elderly men,”


Some of the arguments I've read about castration (of male humans) being forbidden in Islam also seem suspect. One suggests Islam forbids mutilation, but this is obviously not correct since Islam permits male and female circumcision and the Quran requires amputation (5:33, 5:38), and Islam permits decapitation, as sharia punishments.

Another problem is that there does not seem to be a penalty for a Muslim who, being in "need" of a castrated slave to guard the harem, physically carries out the castration himself (or with the help of other Muslims).

Our latest Mohammedan dementor, the Chinese Mohammedan calling itself 'horse', sneers at us thusly, in a posting above:

"if you have a problem with Sudan, take it up with the Russians."

There are two things that may be remarked upon, as regards this statement.

First of all, this is a despicable piece of typically Mohammedan blame-shifting: whatever bad things the Sudanese Muslims are doing, are supposedly all the fault of the (non-Muslim) Russians for supporting them, and so we should blame the Russians, not the Sudanese.

Nonsense.

If the Russians were not involved in the matter at all, the Sudanese Muslims under the abominable Mr Bashir and his equally abominable cohorts would be doing exactly the same as they are doing, and as their predecessors have done for centuries, to the black Christians, and animists, and black Muslims, of Sudan.

In the end, it is the **Muslims** of Sudan who are responsible for what they choose to do: for the horrible things - the cruelty, the gang rapes, the mutilations, the tortures, the enslavements - which they do the Sudanese non-Muslims, horrible things flowing from the contempt and hatred that the Islamic texts teach them to feel toward non-Muslims.

Secondly: it isn't just the *Russians* who are involved with the ghastly regime in the Sudan. **It is the Chinese**, as well. The **Chinese** tyrants are backing and protecting the horrid genocidal dictator Al-Bashir, and trading with him, and supplying arms, and so on.

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/31329

"The cables also report Chinese opposition to pursuing Mr Bashir **because of its oil interests in Sudan** {my emphasis - dda}".


http://www.newenglishreview.org/custpage.cfm/frm/78033/sec_id/78033

"China... has been conducting a ruthless campaign to buy up, and then to exploit, as much of Africa's natural resources as possible (and treating the local Africans with great contempt), **and in the Sudan, it has sided with the Northern Arabs** {my emphasis - dda} in order, so the Chinese calculated, to make sure that they would have the best access to Sudanese oil."

And in this jihadwatch thread (which, incidentally, features a jihad terror raid inside China)

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/08/jihadists-kill-eight-in-western-china-with-suicide-bombs.html

someone observes:

'According to a U.N. data bank, China is responsible for providing 90 percent of Sudan's small arms between 2004 and 2006'.

And here's an article. China is up to its elbows in blood in the Sudan.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0626/p01s08-woaf.html

The Chinese are as much to blame for this situation as anyone, say critics, and not so much because of their economic policies but because of political ones.

'Beijing has "a vested interest in the continuation of a low level of insecurity. It keeps the other major investors out," charged the Brussels-based International Crisis Group (ICG) in a 2002 report. The report argued that China welcomes the absence of real peace in Sudan as enhancing its business opportunities, whatever the cost to southern Sudanese civilians: "There is [on the part of the Chinese] an almost total disregard for the human rights implications of their investments."'...

'More worrysome for many critics, however, is that China sells Khartoum weapons and military aircraft and backs Sudan in the UN Security Council when other nations seek to condemn it for its bad behavior toward its own citizens.'

'According to a report last year by Amnesty International, Sudan is carrying out "massive violations of international human rights ... in southern Sudan and Darfur" – all with the help of Chinese ammunition, tanks, helicopters, and fighter aircraft.'...

'Meanwhile, in its role as a permanent member of the UN Security Council, China has continuously blocked effective action against Sudan by arguing for the respect of Sudan's sovereignty.'

So our Chinese Mohammedan, in trying to direct our attention to Russia, and get us to blame Russia for what is happening in the Sudan, is trying to deflect blame away both from his fellow Muslims *and* from the greedy and cruel tyrants of post-Mao China who are *arming* and protecting and doing deals with those Muslims in the Sudan.

Of course, the central point, to be dwelt upon steadily, and never lost sight of for a moment, is that in the end, the Sudanese Mohammedans themselves are responsible for the Islamically-driven cruelties that they inflict upon the non-Muslims and the insufficiently-Islamic inferior-to-'Arabs' black Muslims, cruelties they would go right on inflicting, if both Russia and China were not involved at all.

As for Russia and China, as non-Muslim regimes whose indigenous non-Muslim populations have been murderously assaulted by jihad both in the past and in the present, they are incredibly stupid, short-sighted and wicked to be doing *anything at all* to enable the Muslims of the Sudan to go on oppressing the non-Muslims there.



So this is what food aid to Ethiopia has wrought. I hope all those church groups who whined and showed all those pictures of poor starving kids on the TV feel good about themselves now.

Addendum: Because those poor little starving kids of 20 years ago that the food aid saved are now today's jihadis.

Wouldn't it have been better to just have left them alone?

Didn't you read my summary of the demographics of Ethiopia?

The population of Ethiopia is *majority Christian*. It is NOT, overall, a 'Muslim country'. About 63 % of the population is **Christian**. Indeed, 18.6 % of the population is Protestant - mostly new converts - and most of those are fervently **evangelical**. Would you deny a helping hand to *fellow non-Muslims*? Or are you someone who hates Christians as well as Muslims, so much so that you are content to leave Christians to starve to death, if they are unlucky enough to live in a country where 30 % of the population are Muslims?

It is perfectly probable that the *Christians* whom these Muslims in a Muslim-dominated district of Ethiopia (and think of the Muslim-dominated districts of France, or the UK, just a bit further down the track...how easy is it for visible Christians, even now, to live in *those* districts, let alone evangelise there?) are persecuting, were among the children saved by food aid twenty years ago.

The thing is, DDA, how the heck do you sort them out? If you ask them questions, Muslims will lie, we know that. About the only thing you could do to sort them out would be to spit on a koran, or shove a cross in their face as you would a vampire, and even then, a really talented liar could be passed by.

Yeah, if I could roll back time, I'd leave them alone, and I'd also leave the Russians alone to play in Afghanistan. Anyway, if they were starving, they must have been overpopulating the local carrying capacity and needed their numbers to go down.

It's just another basket-case African country, always has been, and I will always see that entire continent as a waste of time and aid.

Kinana,

My sources and yours are in general agreement. One thing that I found of interest was that the fanatical Muslim Aurangzeb, who undid the work of his tolerant apostate predecessor Akbar, had a French physician. How often do we see Muslim rulers utilizing foreigners or domestic dhimmis to do the "jobs Muslims were unwilling (or more to the point unable) to do". As pointed out by Fitzgerald, Fjordman and others the high points of the vaunted Muslim civilizations were the work of dhimmis, converts or imported scholars, scientists and technicians.

DDA and Horse:

Horse, is your surname Ma?

As noted above, I'm giving Horse some benefit of the doubt. The things he says about Hui people in the Golden Triangle are generally true--at least as far as I could tell. The big vice of the Golden Triangle Hui is that some of them are deeply involved in the opium trade--but by no means all. And, I daresay, the opium trade involves lots of other ethnicities in northern Thailand.

Also, like many other Far Easterners, Hui I met in northern Thailand and Taiwan were invariably friendly and hospitable towards outsiders who knew their language, even if they knew they weren't Muslim. I've also run into other Americans who've run into the Hui in Qinghai, Gansu, and such places who report cordial or friendly relationships with them on their home turf.

Again, I will admit that of the Hui I met, most were quite steeped in a non- or even anti-Communist Chinese patriotism, an allegiance that got transferred to Chakkri Thailand once resettlement rights and naturalization were granted.

This may well be because the Hui are very conscious of being a minority community in northern Thailand and Taiwan. But, I also suspect, that being Chinese, the Hui in northern Thailand have a strong sense of being "keqi" (polite, having the air of a guest) in that they know that their parents and grandparents were indeed "guests". There was also a strong sense that, along with lots of other people in Taiwan and Thailand, the Hui were victims and targets of a militant Communism.

It also seems to me that Horse does not approve of the behavior of the Khartoum government towards the Southern Sudanese. In that, I welcome him as a fellow traveller. But, i do hope he is cognizant of Mainland China's behavior in that part of the world, and similarly disapproving.

MANY hui (contrary to afikomen's claims about hui being few)
========================================================
Hui in northern Thailand are VASTLY VASTLY outnumbered
by MON, KAREN, Ethnic Thai and Chinese of Hakka and
Hokkien descent. This Horse chap would find Hui in Zimbabwe if he had the time !!!!

DDA....thanks for the warm welcome. I'm very impressed with this JW site. One clarification, while I was born in Ethiopia and grew up there, I no longer live there. I am Canadian by nationality, and do a lot of my work in Sudan and other countries in the region.

Horse....along with the Russians and Chinese, the despot killers in Khartoum are supported 100% by the OIC as well as the Arab League, who not only have turned a blind eye to the genocidal carnage perpetrated by the north against the non Muslims of the south and the Nuba Mts, but also against more moderate Muslims in Darfur. Also, Sadiq Al Mahdi is certainly not without blood on his own hands. He was responsible for several serious massacres of innocent Dinka civilians, among other crimes. The persecution and oppression of southerners by the northerners did not start with Bashir and his gang of thugs. Remember General Gordon in the 19th century??? He was beheaded by this so called "mahdi" you speak of because he was trying to end the slave trade in that country, where Arabs from the north were enslaving, killing and abusing the "abid" from the south.

Dalaran, it is generally not difficult to distinguish between Ethiopian Christians and Ethiopian Muslims. For one, Christians have Christian names, while Muslims have Muslim names. Christians generally wear crosses and other Christian attire, while Muslims (most of whom live in the Somali(Ogaden), Afar (Danakil desert), or western Oromo (Wellega) areas, wear identifiably Muslim dress. The Ethiopian who were starving -- both in the mid 1970's and mid 1980's -- were the victims of a genocidal communist regime (the Dergue) who intentionally attempted to starve out the entire populations of Northern Ethiopia....a tactic which finds many parrallels in Islamic history, including recently in neighbouring Sudan.

china has NOT been assulted by "jihad", the Uyghurs are directed by angry turkic nationalists who want to create a [fantasy] turkic empire stretching from the adriatic sea in europe to turpan in China.

the uyghur prime minister Sabit Damulla Abdulbaki announced that he intended to expel all the Hui from xinjiang, and that hui were foreigners to turkestan and did not follow turkic customs when he announced the independence of the Islamic east turkestan republic.

the ANTI communist Republic of China regime (now on Taiwan), when it ruled mainland china, relied on Hui Generals to crush the uyghur separatist republics, which Ma Zhancang did in kashgar, yarkand, and yangi hissar.

and you were apparently out of the loop when the Republic of China government on Taiwan (NOT communist China), had the muslim General Bai Chongxi, broadcast on world wide radio in 1951 calling for muslims to war against Russia and India.

this crap about about ma and the chinese govenrment is ridiculous, since i loudly criticized communist party rule on the post "Fatwa: "It Is Permissible to Have Sexual Intercourse with a Prepubescent Girl"

The fact is, the russian government has way more sway over Sudan than China. I see sudanese students at russian universities, not chinese, despite the fact that it is 150% more dangerous to study in Russia because russian skinheads attack anyone who remotely looks non russian.

A Russian pilot participated on the Sudanese government side against darfur Justice and equality movement rebels when they raided the capital of khartoum, the rebels used a machine gun to shoot down the plane and the Russian was killed.

correction- this crap about "me" and the chinese government is ridiculous

im not exactly inclined to release my surname on this specific blog.... "horse" may or may not have something to do with who i am.

mel, while you were in sudan, did you see this disgusting practice the dinka follow with their cattle?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLLlytQlJqw

i'm not justifying anything Al sadiq al mahdi did to them but this is disgusting....

and i'm sure you would be interested to know that many of the black slaves from sudan, were then sent to an egyptian coptic monastery to be Castrated by coptic priests against their will.

muslims only enslaved the blacks by capturing them, the copts did the mutilation, if you have a problem with the slave trade, talk to the coptic patriarch and ask him why his priests were slicing the genitalia off underage black boys.

Read "The African diaspora in the Mediterranean lands of Islam." by John O. Hunwick and Eve Troutt Powell

muslims were forbidden from castration, the coptic priests did it.

Horse,

As rbla and I have already shown, the reason why some non-Muslims connected to the Islamic side of slave trade might have castrated non-Muslim slaves is to meet the demands of wealthy Muslim masters who wanted strong but trustworthy guards and servants for their harems. (There are other reasons why the Muslims wanted eunuchs, but guards and servants for the harems seems to be the main reason). The demand was fueled as a consequence of their adherence to Islamic doctrine, i.e., having up to four wives and an unlimited number of females slaves, captives, concubines, etc.

As I said, whatever rules were in place seem to have been interpreted in a very narrow and technical way, whereby Muslims could (a) demand eunuchs, (b) effectively subcontract out the physical task of castration, and (c) buy the eunuchs they demanded.

And this is all assuming that the prohibitions on castration (of humans) were sweeping and absolute. I doubt this to be the case. One could just as well say Islam forbids castration as one could say that Islam forbids killing. As we know, there are many kinds of killing of non-Muslims that are not only permitted but required in Islam. I would not at all be surprised to find that, upon further reading into this issue, that there are conditions where Muslims were allowed to castrate non-Muslims.

At the very least, the evidence presented thus far in this thread shows that a mainstream interpretation in Islam was that Muslims were allowed to hire or compel others to perform the physical act of castration on non-Muslim who were to become slaves.

Ladies and gentlemen

the objective fact is that 'horse''s main function in this thread has been to deflect attention, at all costs, from the highly unpleasant subject matter of the posted article: that **Muslims**, within Christian majority Ethiopia, inhabiting a district where they have obtained a numerical majority, are harassing, bullying, and threatening the local Christians, in a manner totally consistent with the Muslim playbook.

Note that he also omitted to mention China's deep involvement with the genocidal Sudanese Muslim regime, pushing off all the blame onto Russia; and then, when I presented a considerable body of evidence for China's deep involvement with, and support of, that horrible Islamic regime, he simply tried to fob it off.

Note, too, his attempt to make the non-Muslim Sudanese look bad, and his blaming the Copts - who were little more than slaves of the Muslims, and liable to be killed en masse if even one of them refused to obey Muslim orders - for the castration of non-Muslim blacks taken as slaves by Muslims. ( I suspect, too, that as with many a Muslim apologist who has appeared here at jihadwatch, any 'fact' he claims to present, is not necessarily to be relied upon). The bottom line is that there would have been NO castrations if there hadn't been - due to Mohammedan depravity - such a massive demand for eunuchs, within the Muslim world, in the first place. And I doubt that the castrations that took place in the bush in East Africa, before the survivors were marched or sailed north from around what is now Tanzania, were all carried out by Coptic priests brought along by the slavers a-purpose. I'd bet they were carried out by the Muslim slavers themselves. The Muslim Janjaweed, in the 20th century, have frequently cut off women's breasts; so why would Muslims in the past hesitate to cut off a man's external genitalia?

Anyway, I suggest that everybody go right back up to the top and re-read the posted article.

Final thoughts: the non-Muslim authorities in Ethiopia, if they wish to prevent their country from being Islamised district by district, will have to crack down hard on this kind of garbage whenever it occurs.

Muslims should NOT be permitted to drive non-Muslims out of any part of Ethiopia; they must NOT be allowed to create Muslim-controlled 'no go' areas, whether large or small; and all threats against, and attacks upon, non-Muslims, should be met with the full force of the law.

"ladies and gentlemen"

allow me to conclusively DISPROVE DDA's arguments with links from WESTERN sources-


the RIA novsti, a RUSSIAN news agency, wrote an article in which it noted Russia FULLY supported the sudan government-

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20110109/162045034.html

"Russia’s northern bias

Moscow has good relations with Khartoum and President al-Bashir, who in 2009 pledged friendship and many joint projects in the oil and energy sector. But his pledges were no more than declarations of intent on most issues, with the notable exception of student exchanges, which bring Sudanese students to Russian universities. Most of these students strive to remain in Russia after graduation.

Russia does not pose a serious challenge to the three major oil producers in the Sudanese territories – China, India and Malaysia. And the competition will become even tougher once American, British and French companies enter the Southern Sudanese market.

The United States has announced that by 2015 it plans to purchase a quarter of its oil from Africa, with Sudanese fields being a main source. Russia has never made much of an effort to become a major player in the Sudanese oil market, preferring ‘quick’ and ‘easy’ petrodollars instead. It has no base in Sudan and hardly any incentive to develop the local El Dorado of oil, while China needs Sudan to diversify its energy supplies and ensure its energy security. "


the stockholm international peace research institute, a SWEDISH backed organization, gave a damning indictment, saying that most sudanese weapons were from RUSSIA, and that china was responsible for ONLY EIGHT PERCENT of sudanese weapons. While the world was screaming at china to stop shipping weapons to sudan, russia ramped up its arms production and had a field day, shielding from negative publicity

http://www.jamestown.org/single/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews%5Btt_news%5D=34494

"Though China is frequently criticized for its arms shipments to Sudan, Russia has more quietly become Khartoum's major arms supplier, an activity in which it has been joined by former Soviet states such as Belarus and Ukraine. A SIPRI report based on its Arms Transfers Database stated that Russia had accounted for 87 percent of Sudan's major conventional weapons purchases in the period 2003-2007, while China was responsible for only eight percent (www.sipri.org/content/armstrad/2008/04/01). "


On Taiwan, in 1951, Bai Chongxi (pai chung hsi) delivered a radio address to the entire muslim world, Bai was the defence minister of the (non communist) republic of China on taiwan

"Pai Chung-hsi, head of the Chinese Moslem League and former Nationalist Defense Minister, called on all Mohammedans last night to "band together in the common fight against Russia." "Pai, in a radio address beamed to the Moslem world, also urged Mohammedans to steer clear of India's Premier Nehru. He charged Mr. Nehru with being "blind to Soviet imperialism, foolish and arrogant, and having ulterior designs on Kashmir."Pal charged that a third world war was being " engineered by Stalin, the Russian imperialist ogre, and his Chinese henchman, Mao Tze-tung."

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=Pai+Chung-hsi%2C+head+of+the+Chinese+Moslem+League+and+former+Nationalist+Defense+Minister%2C+called+on+all+Mohammedans+to+%60%27band+together+in+the+common+%27+fight&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&btnG=Search+Archives

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=called+on+all+Mohammedans+last+night+to+%22band+together+in+the+common+fight+against+Russia.%22+Pai%2C+in+a+radio+address+beamed+to+the+Moslem+world%2C&btnG=Search+Archives&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=a

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=in+a+radio+address+beamed+to+the+Moslem+world%2C+also+urged+Mohammedans+to+steer+clear+of+India%27s+Premier+Nehru.+He+charged+Nehru+with+being+%22+blind+to+&btnG=Search+Archives&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&scoring=a

A Russian pilot, working for the Sudanese military, was shot down during the raid on khartoum.

"The recent death of a Russian fighter pilot in Sudan, while flying a Sudanese MiG-29, brought to light the fact that Russian pilots, both active duty and retired, have been flying Sudan's 14 MiG-29s. "

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/200862112816.asp

" MIG-29 fighter Jet was shot down killing its Russian pilot during the Darfur rebel assault on the Sudanese capital earlier this month, a Russian radio station said today.

Vladimir said the slain pilot was a flight instructor training the Sudanese pilots on flying the MIG-29 fighter jets. In 2004 Khartoum said that Moscow supplied them with a dozen MIG-29’s.

http://www.sudantribune.com/Radio-station-says-Russian-pilot,27319

the raid on khartoum was done by Muslim fur people and other muslim rebels from darfur fighting against the Sudanese regime. they announced that they do not want to split their own country, unlike the traitorous southerners, but want a secular, united sudan WITHOUT sharia law

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gkmfBfHBJDn3PY0z1VZmVa1Yvagg?docId=CNG.e64d9340e90b28d8697a7cce52ae970b.9d1

"Darfur rebel leader Abdelwahid Mohammed Nur on Tuesday hailed the independence vote under way in south Sudan but said he did not want secession for his own region but rather a united, secular north.

Nur, who leads a major faction of the Sudan Liberation Movement/Army, said it was vital for north Sudan to learn the lessons of the likely breakaway of the south and to reject plans by President Omar al-Bashir to impose Islamic sharia law in the event of partition.

"Our strategy at SLM ... now we struggle to remain North Sudan united and the only way it can be done is with the implementation of the vision of the SLM, which is a secular, democratic state with equal citizenship" Nur told AFP by telephone, speaking in English.

"About this persecution, and genocide, and racism, and jihadism ... we have to learn from what happened in south Sudan, and we have to unite as Northern Sudanese people to stop all that. We are calling for a new beginning."

And testimony from western sources on how coptic priests and monks castrated underage african boys to be sold to the middle east as eunuchs-

http://www.fertilemonk.com/0808/castrati_monks.shtml

http://books.google.com/books?id=N90jBg01ZI0C&pg=PA16&lpg=PA16&dq=coptic+castration&source=bl&ots=keHgvNNpep&sig=bjAFUxzw1zTuC0VGayWQmRhZxB4&hl=en&ei=OCdCTY3SBIHGlQevxKw8&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=9&ved=0CE8Q6AEwCA#v=onepage&q=coptic%20castration&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=mz1YAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA522&dq=coptic+castration&hl=en&ei=SydCTbLoIoOC8gbLuuSQAg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCcQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=coptic%20castration&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=D0OdC7GDJ6oC&pg=PA100&dq=coptic+priests+mutilation+children+of+seven&hl=en&ei=LChCTYLRBIKglAeo3dwt&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=coptic%20priests%20mutilation%20children%20of%20seven&f=false

this one describes the procedure in gruesome detail-

http://books.google.com/books?id=ZhcTAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA467&dq=The+simply+castrated+eunuchs+manufactured+at+Karthoum,+where+the+mortality&hl=en&ei=jShCTfXWIMGC8gbJlbW-AQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CCkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=The%20simply%20castrated%20eunuchs%20manufactured%20at%20Karthoum%2C%20where%20the%20mortality&f=false

most of these sources note that Islamic law FORBIDS muslims from doing castration, and coptic priests monopolized the practice, taking place in their "holy" monastery

and DDA claims im trying to make non muslim sudanese, "look bad". Maybe you did not see the video clearly, i will post it again-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hLLlytQlJqw

these practices are considered "normal" by the dinka

May non-Muslim Ethiopia awaken, and arise, and survive, and defeat the Jihad that is being waged both from within and from without.

May a new non-Muslim commonwealth of South Sudan arise, and survive, and grow, and flourish, and defeat the Jihad that will surely be unloosed against it.

May the Holy One bless, protect, strengthen and defend all Ethiopian Christians.

May He give special courage and grace to the beleaguered Christians of Besheno.

May the Holy One bless, protect, strengthen and defend the non-Muslims of South Sudan.

And may millions of Muslims, in both Sudan and Ethiopia, be liberated from spiritual slavery, and apostasise, and become Christians.

Ladies and gentlemen

re. the Chinese Mohammedan dementor that calls itself 'horse', and that has threadjacked a number of discussions in the past few days. ( i wonder why *now*?)

I invite the curious to return to November 11 2010 and visit the discussion thread for Mr Spencer's special 'Remembrance Day' posting.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/11/armistice-day.html

There you will find ever-lengthening, offtopic, ever more aggressive and deliberately offensive (in that context, especially) postings by a Mohammedan gatecrasher, *also* identifying as a Hui Mohammedan, and calling itself 'Maooirywer'.

Compare them with the postings by 'horse' and I think you will see a distinct resemblance in tone and content.

I have mentioned this curious resemblance to Marisol; I do not yet know whether she has run a comparison to determine whether it is in fact the same person.

The more I see of 'horse' the less I like him.

He tries to convince us that Hui are a sort of superior species of Mohammedan (and by implication that the supposed niceness of the Hui somehow disproves what this site has to say about Islam) but the tone he uses and the kinds of arguments and rhetorical tactics he uses are exactly the same as we have seen from all the other apologists for Islam who have lobbed in here in the past, no matter where in dar al Islam they came from.

He is only one end of the horse. That which he produces is indicative of which.

islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.

Horse....

I lived 20 years in Ethiopia, and never once witnessed, or (spoke to anyone who had witnessed) any Coptic priest castrating a Dinka, or anyone else. On the other hand, the Southern Sudanes I spoke with -- Dinka, Nuer, Mabaan, Uduk, and others all confirmed that the people who castrated them were Muslims Sudanese from the North....not Ethiopians. What you are spouting from your mouth is what one would expect from the south end of a bull going north.

As for the link you posted on Dinka culture....yes I've witnessed that. But this is not a salacious act...not in the slightest. The Dinka (as well as some of the Muslim Messeriya who do the same thing) do this because they have believe it will stimulate increased milk production.

On the other hand, if you want to talk about disgusting practices, remember the saying: "those who live in glass houses, shouldn't throw rocks". And we could certainly begin by discussing your so-called "prophet's" sexual relations with his young, 6 year old child bride, Aisha. Or should we discuss Islamic teachings on sex with animals?

And we could certainly begin by discussing your so-called "prophet's" sexual relations with his young, 6 year old child bride, Aisha. Or should we discuss Islamic teachings on sex with animals?

He has no stomach for such a conversation. He has studiously ignored all my posts concerning his perverted prophet and the disgusting and twisted acts committed by same.
He's just another punk...a pussy with no guts at all. He ignores the perversions of the false prophet because there is no defending sucking on the tongues of young boys and girls. There is no explaining away having sex with a corpse.
He's every bit as twisted and perverted as his hero...

islam is a lie and
Truth is killing it.

Dumbledore's Army wrote:

Ladies and gentlemen

the objective fact is that 'horse''s main function in this thread has been to deflect attention, at all costs, from the highly unpleasant subject matter of the posted article: that **Muslims**, within Christian majority Ethiopia, inhabiting a district where they have obtained a numerical majority, are harassing, bullying, and threatening the local Christians, in a manner totally consistent with the Muslim playbook.
.....................

Absolutely, DDA. He has, really, told us nothing new. Most here at JW are all too familiar with the spectacle of unfree states—Russia and the old Soviet Union and China—supporting or supplying arms to Jihadists, even if they occasionally rouse themselves to fight discrete aspects of the Jihad threat at home.

We find this reprehensible, as well as supremely short-sighted and stupid. Russia and China are jockeying for power, though—they may support Jihadists, but they are not themselves waging Jihad.

Russian may arm the Sudanese, but when Khartoum uses those arms to enslave and murder Christians and animists, they are following the Jihad imperative, not the promptings of Vladamir Putin.

As to the idea that castrating slaves is "forbidden" in Islam—and is, instead, the practice of Coptic monks, nothing could be more grimly laughable. The Copts have never practiced slavery themselves. Moreover, Muslims have not only kept slaves throughout their history and over most of the Muslim world, but the presence of eunuchs has been widespread, especially in the Harems of Dar-al-Islam—including many places such as Turkey, where you wouldn't find Copts at all. If Muslims had really been opposed to the practice, this could scarcely have been the case.

As to the Hui, how important is it whether they represent "moderate" Islam? Perhaps they do—although, as DDA notes, it is always best to take any such claims with a grain of salt—and the Hui really are decent Muslims who present no threat to Infidels.

Perhaps they should preach their enlightened beliefs to other Muslims, since their views are hardly effecting these Ethiopian Muslims threatening to murder their Christian neighbors, nor are they even having an influence on the Uiger Muslims of their native China, since they seem as Jihad-driven as any of their coreligionists, anywhere in the world.

Ultimately the presence of such Muslim trolls as "horse"—with the exception of a few overt Muslim supremacists like Islamic Empire—*is* to distract us, and keep us from the fight against Jihad by steering us into narrow side streets, and arguing over frivolities.

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