Muslim World League declares jihad against cinematic depictions of Muhammad

I don't know what they're talking about. What cinematic depictions of Muhammad? For years I've tried to interest filmmakers in a movie version of my book The Truth About Muhammad. I think it would make a great movie, but everyone I've spoken to about it values his head more than the prospect of a great movie.

Free Speech Death Watch Alert: "Islamic Group Declares War on Religious Films," by David E. Miller for the Media Line, January 5:

An international Islamic organization has declared war on cinematic depictions of the prophet Muhammad and his companions, arguing they denigrate Islam's most revered characters.

The Fiqh (Islamic Jurisprudence) Council, a body of the Muslim World League, said in a statement issued Sunday that the images not of the prophet himself but of his companions were creeping into films and television series and prompted the new ruling, which was adopted during the 20th conference of the Council in late December.

"The council reiterates its previous decision banning the production, promotion ... and viewing of these films and series," the statement read. "These [portrayals] may cause the denigration and devaluation of the figures and be used as an excuse to ridicule them."

The Quran, Islam's divine book and primary source of law, doesn't explicitly forbid the depiction of Muhammad or other prophets, which include figures like Abraham, Moses and Jesus from the Jewish and Christian traditions. But some oral traditions, known as hadiths, ban any such visual representation. The main concern cited by jurists was that depicting Muhammad would encourage idolatry.

Based in Mecca, the Muslim World League is one of the largest Islamic NGOs. Its missions include Islamic proselytizing, coordination of Islamic preaching and support of needy Muslims worldwide.

The statement dismissed the argument that the films were a means of educating the public about Islamic figures, saying "the holy scriptures contain sufficient information."

Film industry officials and observers said the council had nothing to worry about because producers and directors wouldn't dare test the ban. Mousaad Fouda, president of the Egyptian Film Syndicate, said that work on an excellent film about the life of Jesus was stopped recently in Egypt mid-production, adding that Egyptian audiences preferred action movies and dramas.

"There are no producers in Egypt that would make a film depicting the Prophet or his companions," Fouda told The Media Line. "They would be too worried that such films will not succeed commercially."

Sariel Birnbaum, an Arab film researcher at the State University of New York in Binghamton, said the Arab film industry has gradually become more conservative regarding the depiction of Islamic figures.

"In 1951, when religious films were first produced, only the Prophet and his close companions were banned from the screen," he told The Media Line. "Today, there are hundreds of characters from the dawn of Islam who cannot be shown."

Among the most common cinematic methods of depicting the prophet are showing the scene through his eyes, or focusing on his enemies in seventh-century Mecca and his Jewish rivals, Birnbaum said.

In a rare instance when Hollywood took on the Muhammad story, American actor Anthony Quinn depicted the prophet's uncle, Hamza, in the 1976 epic film "The Message" directed by Moustapha Akkad. The presence of the prophet was symbolized in the film by organ music, and his words - unheard - were repeated by other characters.

Birnbaum attributed the growing orthodoxy of Sunni jurists regarding the film industry to a battle being waged on two fronts: one with Christianity and the other with Shiite Islam, both of which encourage artistic depiction of their revered figures....

"Religious censorship rules supreme," Birnbaum added. "If an official religious authority bans a film post-production, the investment is lost."

Joseph Fahim, the arts and culture editor at Daily News Egypt, said the timing of the statement was strange, as religious programming was at an all time low....

Fahim said the only recent Islamic production he was aware of was announced in Qatar at the opening of the Doha Tribeca Film Festival in 2009. The epic $150 million, English-language production about the life of Muhammad was meant to bridge cultures, but Fahim said no news about casting or production was released since the initial announcement.

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Here's how mine would go:

Allah: John Malkovich

Muhammad: Steve Buscemi

Gabriel: Pauly Shore

This is sooooo stupid! Muslims insist Mohammed is not a god but they treat him like one by insisting he can't even be portrayed in any image. Any one who "insults" him (who is dead and rotting in the grave) is to be killed. And anyone who dares question his behavior likewise is dispatched! Truly stupid and evil. Islam is nothing more than the religion of Moh' and his alter ego Allah!

"The Fiqh (Islamic Jurisprudence) Council, a body of the Muslim World League, said in a statement issued Sunday that the images not of the prophet himself but of his companions were creeping into films and television series and prompted the new ruling, which was adopted during the 20th conference of the Council in late December."


Which companions would film, cartoon, or videos create violent Muslim reactions?...

Would that be any Muslim?....

Are Muslims afraid that the truth about Islam would get more attention that the Muslim clerics would accept?...

Islam is the religion of paranoia....

Here's mine :

Allah - James Earl Jones.

Muhammad - George Clooney.

Gabriel - Jack Black.

Aisha - Snooky.

What are they afraid of?? The truth about Mo/allah and Islam. This how they suppress the truth and keep deceiving Muslims and non-Muslims alike. If Muslims come to know the real truth about their perfect man - prophet and god, Mo/allah, they will start leaving Islam in droves and Saudi Arabia will lose a big chunk of their revenues - money from Hajj going Muslims.

Of course the gutless dhimmis will oblige willingly under the fear of losing their head!!!

Irrestible--

Allah: William Shatner
Mo: Sean Penn
Garbriel: Matt Damon
Aisha: Lindsay Lohan

"For years I've tried to interest filmakers in a movie version of my book The Truth About Muhammad."
Robert, have you thought of asking Mel Gibson? All the major studios rejected him, so he made "The Passion of the Christ" himself and it was a huge success.
It's time people new the truth about Mohammad.

What about a cartoon version of Mo's life?

Allah = Caspar the ghost
Mohammed = Daffy Duck
The Companions = The seven dwarves
Gabriel = Road-runner

Title of the movie? Loony moons

I'm now considering getting the camcorder out & making my own film using a melted Gumby doll as Mo!

Allah: Bernie Madoff
Mohammed: Bernie Madoff
Gabriel: Brad Pitt
Ayesha: Jason Bieber

"The main concern cited by jurists was that depicting Muhammad would encourage idolatry."
The opposite is of course the case. Films depicting Mo would help to break the mystique deliberately encouraged regarding this awful man. Their only reason for preventing honest depictions of the murderous "prophet" is to keep the truth hidden - from everyone, including muslims. Perhaps especially muslims since Islam is a prison (witness apostasy is punishable by death) so the "faithful" are given the mushroom treatment.

Muslim World League declares jihad against cinematic depictions of Muhammad
.........................

I guess that means the "Jewel of Medina" won't be coming to a multiplex near us any time soon...

It would be great if a motion picture could be made based on the Sirat Rasul Allah, the oldest biography of Mudhammam. Spectacular action scenes of Badr, Uhud, the mass murder of between 600 and 900 men of the Jewish tribe, Bani Qurayzah, the robbing of Ukaydir ibn Abdul Malik and the killing of his brother Hassan, the horrendous execution of Umm Qirfa Fatima.
Of course Mudhammam's life was not all blood and gore. There is the fine romance between Mudhammam in his fifties and six year old Aisha bint Atiq ibn Uthman. This will be an X-rated movie.
As for the casting:
Mudhammam: Arnold Schwarzenegger
Allah: Morgan Freeman
Jibril: Steve Martin
Aisha: Anne Hathaway

Guess that's another role that will pass Miley Cyrus by............

In 1911, Italian movie director Francesco Bertolini created an epic movie based on Dante’s work. Entitled “L’Inferno”, it features a naked Mohammed, with his modesty covered by his hanging guts.

Link:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poK4qOliPzk&feature=related

Muhammad appears at 9:44 with his entrails hanging out as depicted by Dante, in The Divine Comedy: Inferno, where Muhammad is placed in Hell, with his entrails hanging out (Canto 28):

"No barrel, not even one where the hoops and staves go every which way, was ever split open like one frayed Sinner I saw, ripped from chin to where we fart below.

His guts hung between his legs and displayed His vital organs, including that wretched sack Which converts to shit whatever gets conveyed down the gullet.

As I stared at him he looked back And with his hands pulled his chest open, Saying, "See how I split open the crack in myself! See how twisted and broken Mohammed is! Before me walks Ali, his face Cleft from chin to crown, grief–stricken."

Such a movie was possible to make 100 years ago without any protests or threats from Muslims - no one dares to do the same today, which shows the decline of Western culture and submission to Islam by self censorship. No fatwas are needed to make the dhimmis behave.

Anne Hathaway is WAY to old for the part of Ayesha.

Allah....Michael Moore
Mohammad...Danny Devito
Gabriel....Moe Howard
Aisha......Nancy Pelosi

I'll do the movie, Robert. Just send the screenplay to:
Jewdog
911 Suicide Drive
Infidelberg, N.Y. 10929

As a muslim I would never mock christianity or Jesus or Even Jud or Moses. How could you mock Allah and our Prophet?
We actually respect other religions.

Did Christianity teach you mock on Islam and the muslims?
Was the goal of Jesus to tell you to make fun of Mohammad?


"Did Christianity teach you mock on Islam and the muslims?
Was the goal of Jesus to tell you to make fun of Mohammad?"

I am not a Christian, but objectively speaking there is only two places to put Muhammad: Before an international court as perpetrator of crimes against humanity. Or, if you believe in Hell, as Muslims do, exactly where Dante placed him for eternal punishment.

This is not mocking, it is called justice in this world or the next!

Guess that leaves roles for Muslim movie characters divided between terrorits and eastern-westerners like Sinbad and the Thief of Bagdad. Hope no one complains.

I think this prohibition of Muhammad images is really an attempt by Muslim clerics at the apotheosis of Muhammad. An image of Mo makes him too human. Better to have him effectively revered as one would a god - without saying so, of course. For Islam stands or falls on the credibility of this brutal man, and so does the power of the clerics.

A death threat by a Muslim is a badge of honour. They have long ago made their blanket death threat against all of us anyway. To be specifically targeted or have a specific project targeted is something to be proud of!

@ Alia

Mocking anything is a right! We are free to mock whatever we wish. You might be offended, but so what?!

Islam mocks Christianity by claiming that the Bible is a falsified text. Islam mocks Christianity by claiming that Jesus is not the Son of God. Islam mocks everyone by saying that only Muslims are the best of people and non-Muslims are 'the vilest of creatures'.

Islam knows about mockery, because Islam mocks so many things which are sacred to others.

Get over it, you whited sepulchre.

Why do you assume that mocking Mohammad, has anything to do with religious beliefs ?

And if you respect other religions, there's an awful lot of misunderstanders who don't.

Take a few minutes to read Spencers articles on Jihad Watch, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

@buraq I just want you to see the comments above..It is either mocking or cursing Islam. As I know that Jesus told you to love and respect others.What do you gain when you mock Islam? You actually show hatred!! and accuse that muslims hate the christians?

The qur'an didn't mention any offensive information about Jesus.In factthe book reveals the good side of him.

And we do not mock about Christianity. There's a difference in mocking or disbelief. Yes we do not believe that Jesus is God and yes we believe that the Bible is modified. But we do not "mock". We actually believe in Jesus and the Bible. And do respect that.


Muslims are so brainwashed, it is so sad and pathetic.

@ Alia

You don't believe in the Jesus I know. Islam's version of Jesus is a total stranger to me. And you say it's not mocking, it's disbelief. But what does that disbelief lead to? It leads to a so-called religion that makes me three offers. 1) accept Islam 2) pay jizya 3) or be murdered.
Do you think for a moment that the Jesus I know would be a willing part of such a so-called religion like Islam? Would Jesus associate himself with a man who murdered more than 700 bound prisoners? No, your Jesus is a mockery of the Christian Jesus.
And as far as I'm concerned, saying that The Bible is a pack of lies is not just 'disbelief', it's an open insult, a slap in the face.

@paul There are many muslims like me respect religions . And those misunderstanders are discouraged by muslim countries and act alone. We are actually against terrorism and killing innocent lives.

I have read and been reading the articles for a long time. And also been watching him on Youtube..Sorry to tell you this but I have studied about Islam all my life and nothing and nobody taught me that Islam is a religion of deception until I watched Robert Spencer?

No body told me to kill an innocent person. And nobody told me if a person refuses to convert to Islam that a muslim should kill him??????
Those claims are false!! And those claims are told by Robert.

And those groups that claim they are muslim and bomb they are actually banned from thier own country and completely acting alone.

Thank you


@shewholives
Im actually a muslim and proud. Not brainwashed.

"And we do not mock about Christianity. There's a difference in mocking or disbelief."

The Qur'an actually goes much further than just to mock the Christians and other non-believers. It clearly dehumanize them, saying they are “Vile Animals”.

The Ayatollah Khomeini, who dedicated his entire life to studying Islam, said that non-Muslims rank somewhere between "feces" and the "sweat of a camel that has consumed impure food." Small wonder. The Quran dehumanizes non-Muslims, describing them as “animals” and beasts:

Those who reject (Truth), among the People of the Book and among the Polytheists, will be in Hell-Fire, to dwell therein (for aye). They are the worst of creatures. (98:6)

Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. (8:55)

Verse 7:176 compares unbelievers to "panting dogs" with regard to their idiocy and worthlessness. Verse 7:179 says they are like "cattle" only worse.

Verse 5:60 even says that Allah transformed Jews of the past into apes and pigs. This is echoed by verses 7:166 and 2:65.

A hadith says that Muhammad believed rats to be "mutated Jews" (Bukhari 54:524, also confirmed by Sahih Muslim 7135 and 7136).

Verses 46:29-35 even say that unbelieving men are worse than demons who believe in Muhammad.

According to Islamic law, non-Muslims may be owned as property by Muslims, but - in keeping with Islam's supremacist message - a fellow Muslim should never be (unless they convert to Islam after enslavement). Even Christians and Jews are not considered fully human in that the penalty for killing one of them is limited to one-third of the compensation due for unintentionally killing a Muslim.

If you are not mocking the Christians you are by definition not a true Muslim who believes in the revelations of Allah.

which Islamic country are you from and what form of Islam do you practice? Islams looks really good and peaceful when you are high on weed.
m

@ Alia You wrote: 'No body told me to kill an innocent person. And nobody told me if a person refuses to convert to Islam that a muslim should kill him??????
Those claims are false!! And those claims are told by Robert.'

You're lying! Al Qur'an and various Hadiths say these things, not Robert Spencer.

@buraq

So saying that Bible is modified is an insult to you,I understand.
But What about the Qur'an? The book is refered as a book of infidelity. Isn't this a slap in the face too?


Aren't the muslims human beings? Don't they have feelings as much as you do?

Even though we said so that the Bible is modified , at least we do not refer Jesus as a clown or a criminal or should go to hell.

The disbelief will not lead anywhere. You have your religion and we have ours. We are all free to choose our religions .

@Buraq Give me an example of the qur'an verses that says so?

And Hadeeth?

@Ole Hartling

Khomeini is Shea muslim and he does not represent Islam. I am Sunni muslim. I follow the Qur'an and Sunna.


How about 'Muhammad the Musical'?

Looking for song title suggestions now. Here's what I've got so far:
"Squeeze me!" (Based on "Feed Me -- Little Shop)
"You are six dear, going on seven dear." based on a song from Sound of Music
"Mooning" based on the song of the same name from Grease.
"Don't Go Fly a Kite" based on a song from Mary Poppins
"We're off to see the Kaaba" based on a song from Wizard of Oz
"Oh what a beautiful mourner" based on a song from Oklahoma
"A-Tune-of Shahada (what a wonderful phrase)" based on a song from Lion King
"Turn me to the mosque on time" based on a song from My Fair Lady
"Seventy-Six young girls" based on a song from Music Man

The overture is something I'm having trouble with because the duff is a very limited instrument.

As sequel, I was thinking of doing "The Sound of Mushrik"

Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]...and fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."

Quran (2:216) - "Fighting is prescribed for you, and ye dislike it. But it is possible that ye dislike a thing which is good for you, and that ye love a thing which is bad for you. But Allah knoweth, and ye know not."

Quran (4:74) - "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

Quran (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Quran (4:95) - "Not equal are those believers who sit (at home) and receive no hurt, and those who strive and fight in the cause of Allah with their goods and their persons. Allah hath granted a grade higher to those who strive and fight with their goods and persons than to those who sit (at home). Unto all (in Faith) Hath Allah promised good: But those who strive and fight Hath He distinguished above those who sit (at home) by a special reward,-"

Quran (5:33) - "The punishment of those who wage war against Allah and His messenger and strive to make mischief in the land is only this, that they should be murdered or crucified or their hands and their feet should be cut off on opposite sides or they should be imprisoned; this shall be as a disgrace for them in this world, and in the hereafter they shall have a grievous chastisement"

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Quran (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more persecution and religion should be only for Allah"

Quran (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them."

Quran (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Quran (9:30) - "And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!"

Quran (9:38-39) - "O ye who believe! what is the matter with you, that, when ye are asked to go forth in the cause of Allah, ye cling heavily to the earth? Do ye prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? But little is the comfort of this life, as compared with the Hereafter. Unless ye go forth, He will punish you with a grievous penalty, and put others in your place."

Quran (9:73) - "O Prophet! strive hard against the unbelievers and the hypocrites and be unyielding to them; and their abode is hell, and evil is the destination."

Quran (9:123) - "O you who believe! fight those of the unbelievers who are near to you and let them find in you hardness."

Quran (25:52) - "Therefore listen not to the Unbelievers, but strive against them with the utmost strenuousness..."

Quran (33:60-62) - "If the hypocrites, and those in whose hearts is a disease, and the alarmists in the city do not cease, We verily shall urge thee on against them, then they will be your neighbors in it but a little while. Accursed, they will be seized wherever found and slain with a (fierce) slaughter."

Quran (47:3-4) - "Those who reject Allah follow vanities, while those who believe follow the truth from their lord. Thus does Allah set forth form men their lessons by similtudes. Therefore when you meet in battle those who disbelieve, then smite the necks until when you have overcome them, then make (them) prisoners,"

Quran (47:35) - "Be not weary and faint-hearted, crying for peace, when ye should be uppermost for Allah is with you,"

Quran (48:29) - "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves"

Quran (61:4) - "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His way. He it is who has sent His Messenger (Mohammed) with guidance and the religion of truth (Islam) to make it victorious over all religions even though the infidels may resist."

Quran (66:9) - "O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites, and be stern with them. Hell will be their home, a hapless journey's end."

----------------------------------------

Bukhari (52:177) - Allah's Apostle said, "The Hour will not be established until you fight with the Jews, and the stone behind which a Jew will be hiding will say. "O Muslim! There is a Jew hiding behind me, so kill him."

Bukhari (52:256) - The Prophet... was asked whether it was permissible to attack the pagan warriors at night with the probability of exposing their women and children to danger. The Prophet replied, "They (i.e. women and children) are from them (i.e. pagans)."

Bukhari (52:220) - Allah's Apostle said... 'I have been made victorious with terror'

Abu Dawud (14:2526) - The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Three things are the roots of faith: to refrain from (killing) a person who utters, "There is no god but Allah" and not to declare him unbeliever whatever sin he commits, and not to excommunicate him from Islam for his any action; and jihad will be performed continuously since the day Allah sent me as a prophet until the day the last member of my community will fight with the Dajjal (Antichrist)

Muslim (1:33) - the Messenger of Allah said: I have been commanded to fight against people till they testify that there is no god but Allah, that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah

Bukhari (8:387) - Allah's Apostle said, "I have been ordered to fight the people till they say: 'None has the right to be worshipped but Allah

Muslim (1:149) - "Abu Dharr reported: I said: Messenger of Allah, which of the deeds is the best? He (the Holy Prophet) replied: Belief in Allah and Jihad in His cause..."

Muslim (20:4645) - "...He (the Messenger of Allah) did that and said: There is another act which elevates the position of a man in Paradise to a grade one hundred (higher), and the elevation between one grade and the other is equal to the height of the heaven from the earth. He (Abu Sa'id) said: What is that act? He replied: Jihad in the way of Allah! Jihad in the way of Allah!"

Tabari 7:97 The morning after the murder of Ashraf, the Prophet declared, "Kill any Jew who falls under your power."

Tabari 9:69 "Killing Unbelievers is a small matter to us"

Ibn Ishaq: 327 - “Allah said, ‘A prophet must slaughter before collecting captives. A slaughtered enemy is driven from the land. Muhammad, you craved the desires of this world, its goods and the ransom captives would bring. But Allah desires killing them to manifest the religion.’”

Ibn Ishaq: 992 - "Fight everyone in the way of Allah and kill those who disbelieve in Allah."

Back to topic: The law council of the Muslim World League, based in Mecca, warns against cinematic portrayals of Islam's revered characters. We can be sure that among Muslim film-makers this warning will be heeded, (as if they really needed to be reminded of it). But this is politically a very stupid move, because it brings the whole subject out into the open. It would be better for Islam if they kept this issue under the radar as it normally has been. Every Muslim already knows what's disallowed, what's dangerous, what's actually suicidal within Muslim society. But outside of Muslim society is something different. There are, I believe, film-makers in the non-Muslim world who have courage and the artistic urge to create and influence and entertain people. The traditions of cinema have it that "respecting" the unrespectable is not required for any artist with self-respect. They won't hold themselves back forever. The subject is too tempting. Hundreds of films could be produced and shown, each with a different angle of approach. The Muslim World League has made a mistake. Their public ban is instant advertizing promotion material for any movie made in the West. (And also TV).

Alia, Ibn Warraq taught us there is Islam I, II and III.

Islam I is Quran-Hadith-Sira. These texts are now very well known by Robert Spencer and many other Critical Islam Experts. Islam II is what Islamic theologians and leaders have interpreted from Islam I and written or spoken. It is all "black and white" and well known to Critical Islam Experts. And millions of their readers have learned a lot from them.

Islam III, however, is much varied, because that is how Islam I + II are practised all over the world.

You, Alia, may well have studied Islam well, but you are probably less knowledgeable about it than Ibn Warraq, Robert Spencer and his colleagues, among whom are many ex-Muslims and Arabic speakers. They may well have grasped what Muhammad originally meant better than you.

This means that your opinion is no more than one of the many versions of Islam. And your version is probably cherrypicking in Islam I + II what your Imam and group like, while ignoring large parts of them.

Mohammed is mocked because Critical Islam Experts have clearly shown grave differences and incompatibility between Islamic Laws and Democratic laws. And Muslims show no sign of reforming one bit of their laws. Muslims simply will not listen to polite complaints and respectful reasoning.

And mocking any historical, political person is thus a sometimes necessary useful strategy in Democracy. And you have NO RIGHT NOT TO BE OFFENDED, at least not in the media or on the internet, because you can walk away from those.

" Those claims are false !! And those claims are told by Robert ".

So, Spencer is just making all of these things up, eh ?

What about commenter Ole Hartlings list above ? That's pretty specific ! And he's not quoting everything that the misunderstanders say, when they justify their acts of murder.

You remind me of " Honest " Ibe Hooper...

Johnnie Depp as mo
no allah or gabriel, but mo often talks to himself.

Alia, you seem to be uninformed about your own religion and about Muhammad's life.

"You have your religion and we have ours. We are all free to choose our religions."

Incredible that you dare to say that on this site! While millions of "Kuffars" know that these instructions from Mohammed stem from his powerless, therefore "diplomatic", period in Mecca (570-610 + 610-622). But these instructions were abrogated by the verse of the sword and other warlike verses in Mohammeds period in Medina (622-632) when he was powerful.

If you actually believe what you said, that is a good example of you cherrypicking and ignoring Islam's holy texts and theologians (and many of them) right there!

"You have your religion and we have ours. We are all free to choose our religions ."


so sez Alia...


Of course if you are a Muslim and you are suddenly inspired to choose Christianity as your religion...you stand a good chance of being executed by your former Muslim co-religionists...

And If you Choose to be a Christian in a Muslim dominated area you will be tormented, intimidated, harrassed, assaulted and eventually executed....

And right now a man in Afghanistan is on trial for his very life, because he converted from Islam to Christianity.

Now who are the misunderstanders of Islam? You or these Afghan judges and prosecutors that put him on trial?

Alia, do you see any problem with Muhammad's words, for example:

In Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection, Muhammad said,

"Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him."

"And those groups that claim they are muslim and bomb they are actually banned from thier own country and completely acting alone."

Those are the ones who are the most zealous and diligent in studying Islam and according to Islam-experts the ones that understand what was meant by Mohammed best.

And you clinging to the same religion that could inspire such horrible deeds, should be held accountable for being first and foremost loyal to the Ummah, with many of them in it also.

@ Alia, you discovered one thing you could say "no" to in reply to commenter Hartling's list. And that one thing is denial of guilt by association because you are Sunni.
Very, very artlessly done.

Is there a part for Gary Busey or Nick Nolte?

And what about Gary Coleman?

"There are no producers in Egypt that would make a film depicting the Prophet or his companions," Fouda told The Media Line. "They would be too worried that such films will not succeed commercially."

heh-heh ..yeah, sure.

@paul You cannot judge those verses with one quote or two. I see the WHOLE verse of the Sura and see why was that really uttered by Allah? Each verse has a story based on the reasons,setting and occasion .The question; What really happened between the muslims and the christians? Or the muslims and the disbelievers?or jews? Every verse written because of a reason. The Prophet Mohammad was attacked by pagans And because he was attacked or was about to be assasinated by them, Allah ordered him to fight back. He was never ordered by Allah to kill without a reason. Nor kill an innocent life. Those orders were talking about the people who attacked Mohammad THEN not NOW. And if muslims attacked by non muslims, they should fight back.

If you are interested to know read it as whole , not pick just one verse. Buy books from muslim authors that translate and explain whats really going on.

Ibn Warraq is not a muslim, u should learn Islam from a muslim cleric. Based on Qur'an and Sunna in order you believe what Im writing.

Theres no such Islam 1 2 3 . Sorry to tell you that the thing your learning is nothing but corruption!!!

@steffen What ever makes u happy :)

Read the last comment...


Just read the koran

On page 547 (814 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, Muhammad permits a threat of beheading to force a conversion to Islam:

[Muhammad] said: "Woe to you Abu Sufyan, isn't it time that you recognize that I am God's apostle?" [Sufyan] answered, "As to that I still have some doubt." [Ibn Abbas] said to [Sufyan], "Submit and testify that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is the apostle of God before you lose your head," so [Sufyan] did so.

mo killed, but only because allah told him to. mo raped a lot of women, but only because allah told him to. robbery, kidnapping and murder, but always following the orders of allah. Yet mo once had to torture someone to learn the location of hidden treasure since allah wouldn't tell mo where the treasure was hidden (that would be like cheating).

On page 222 (326 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, he affirms that those who do not follow him will be slaughtered.

Abu jahl said to them: "Muhammad alleges that if you follow him you will be kings of the Arabs and the Persians. Then after death you will be raised to gardens like those of the Jordan. But if you do not follow him you will be slaughtered, and when you are raised from the dead you will be burned in the fire of hell." The apostle [Muhammad] came out to them with a handful of dust saying: "I do say that."

, this alia needs to talk to her cohorts, ie hamas, hizboys, taliban, sowdis, and ask them why they have not practiced her islam? you know where they respect other religions while they slit your throat.

@treah About abu sufyan ibn Harb; he was the leader of the Quraysh who led many expeditions against the Muslims, so he would be executed for many criminals .That's why he would be killed. Not because he didnt convert. Like I told u , read the story first before u judge.

Alia,

I'll suggest to you what I and others here have suggested many times to muslims decrying our prejudice and lack of understanding.

It is not us you have to convince that islam contains no calls to kill and subjugate the infidel, is it? Go tell it to your fellow muslims that misunderstand islam in the exact same way over and over and over again.

I will garentee you that once your fellow muslims stop killing infidels in the name of islam we will stop talking about it. Good luck.

"There are no producers in Egypt that would make a film depicting the Prophet or his companions," Fouda told The Media Line. "They would be too worried that such films will not succeed commercially."

Yes, it won't succeed, not when the movie theaters are blown up or set on fire.

To the misguided and brain dead here is a fatwah from ME.

Islam or Muslims or whatever is NOT A RELIGION!

Islam is a world wide CULT of murdering, misogynistic, homophobic, female genital mutilators and paranoid ignorant uneducated fools!

Islam is CULT founded on death and persecution of those that object to it's backward ignorant precepts and dictates!

Islam a CULT founded by a half-wit mental midget who was manipulated by his handlers so as to seize land and riches by force (theft) in order to enrich those that surrounded the puppet MO!

Islam is a CULT that needs to purged from the midst of mankind so that those held in it's grip of totalitarian physical and mental slavery can free to determine their own beliefs about the world and the TRUTH of man's existence rather than a perverted fantasy of filthy old men (read mullahs) who want remain in power and have the right to abuse women and whomever in order to retain their own greedy wealth and power!

Islam and Muslims are a direct threat and contradiction to the Constitution and all we believe in as Americans!

Islam is a direct correlation with the evils of Communism and Socialism that has already turned Europe all other countries under the sway Communism and Socialism into turd world cesspools!!

Now if any of you offended Islamic moron Muslims wanna come to my house in Texas and try any of your shite on me and my neighbors, get ready for your trip to the 72 virgins in which you ignorantly believe!!!

Religion of Peace? What farce!

We should forget about Muhammad and concentrate on a remake of The Thief of Bagdad. That wouldn't offend anybody and besides, there aren't that many good parts for amputees.

@big-pete

My point that muslims should not be generalized because of those misunderstanders. And I do not know in person any of those misunderstanders that kill the inncocent people.And do not want to approach any of them. Not all muslims living as terrorists. Most of those groups are learning about Islam from the wrong people..

" He was never ordered by Allah to kill without reason ".

You can't be serious. I seem to remember something about Mohammad ordering the death of a poet, who was teasing the prophet of Islam with unpleasant poems.

And, he didn't seem to mind too much when one of his followers killed a woman, who bad mouthed the prophet of Islam.

Are you going to tell me that these incidents are lies, made up by Spencer ?

And how can you possibly believe that it's not Muslims, who are behind most of the daily atrocities committed in in the name of Islam - which the jihadists proudly proclaim themselves ?

Who brought down the World Trade Center towers on 9/11 ? Spencer ?

As I said earlier, you are taking a page right out of " Honest " Ibes playbook.

"I see the WHOLE verse of the Sura and see why was that really uttered by Allah? Each verse has a story based on the reasons, setting and occasion."

This implicates that you don't believe in the doctrine of an uncreated Qur'ran. And that makes you an apostate.

Doctrinally, the traditionalists school held that the Qur'an was not created in time; the Qur'an has forever existed with Allah on a tablet in heaven in Arabic, as it exists today. The Qur'an is outside the scope of history.

Although coeternal with God, the Qur'an is somehow, like His attributes, distinct from God's essence. The profound problem with this position, which the Mu'tazilites pointed out, was dismissed by Hadith collector al-Bukhari (d. 933), who said, "The Qur'an is the speech of God uncreated, the acts of men are created, and inquiry into the matter is heresy."

The Mu'tazilites held that the Qur'an had to have been created; otherwise the historical events it relates would have necessarily been predetermined. The doctrine of "Khalq al-Qur'an", the createdness of the Qur'an, according to Joseph Kenny in "Theological Themes Copmmon to Islam and Christianity" means that "the historical events mentioned in the Qur'an would not have been determined from eternity and room would be left for free human choice."

Also, as Islamic scholar Neal Robinson points out, for the Mu'tazilites it made no sense "to think of his commandments as existing before the creation of the beings to whom thy are addressed."

The Mu'tazilites were correct in detecting the profound theological problem presented by the doctrine of an uncreated Qur'an, the logic of which brought the Qur'an uncomfortably close to the conception of the Christian Word. As Thomas Aquinas would later teach in "Reasons for the faith against Muslim Objections", "The Word of God ... is coeternal with God." The force of Aquinas's argument in the implications of this position reveals exactly why the Mu'tazilites objected to the Christ-like status of the uncreated Qur'an; it led ineluctably to another Person in the Godhead, a conclusion inimical to "tawhid".

Like the Mu'tazilites, Aquinas held that "in God understanding is not different from his being." In other words, His understanding is not an attribute seperable from His essence. Therefore, an uncreated Word had to be in His essence and equal to Him. As Aquinas said:

"The divine Word measures up to the power of God, because by his essence He understands himself and everything else. So the Word He conceives by his essence, when He understands himself and everything else, is as great as his essence. It is therefore perfect, simple and equal to God. We call this Word of God a Son, as said above, because He is of the same nature with the Father, and we profess that he is co-eternal with the Father, only begotten and perfect."

The Mu'tazilites, sensing the inexorable force of the logic of this position (well before it was elaborated by Aquinas), equated the doctrine of the uncreated Qur'an with polytheism, a grave violation of the doctrine of "tawhid". "If the Qur'an was uncreated then it must be another God, end therefore the unity of God would be violated."

@Fed_Republic
"Islam is a world wide CULT of murdering, misogynistic, homophobic, female genital mutilators and paranoid ignorant uneducated fools"

Did u forget about the rapists thats happening in ur country? It's happening every minute!! and the parents that are killing thier own babies? What about this Emanual that abducted Elizabeth Smart???? he claims hes doing What Lord told him to do and oh that peterson guy who killed his pregnant wife ...etc etc

Im not mocking but I really am sorry for those victims, really sorry.

Amber alert is on every day; most children found dead and very few found alive.


Have u forgotten those cases? In my country there are no strange stories as those happening in urs...

In the name of Allah or not, both considered as crimes.

Alia claims that a follower of Islam has nothing to do with deception and yet here she is practising deception, saying that Mohammed's actions are considered specific to the era he lived in. That is truly deceptive, since ALL Muslims consider Mohammed the perfect example for all contemporary Muslims. So if he went to war to promote the religion he founded, married an 8 year old, approved of sexual slavery, approved of the assassination of his critics, approved of death for apostasy, despised music, and so on, then all those things are perfect examples which Muslims should follow.

Can Alia point to any country in the Muslim majority world where non-Muslims are treated as equals to Muslims?

Alia is also, I believe, telling fibs about what Spencer says about forcible conversion.

The day may not be far off when people can create animations on their computer that don't look that different from film of real individuals. When that day arrives, the Muslim World League won't be able to stop talented anti-Sharia activists from producing such animations showing the life of Mohammed. And Muslims will flock to watch those animations on the internet.

Don't think you know Islam if you believe it is a RoP. Bush said that. What a lousy statement he made in the heat of a moment. One day, if he lives long enough, he will regret making that statement.

We are mocking Islam in the context of the article. You didn't make a statement about your views on the article, instead you hijacked the thread to a different dimension. By coming here and telling us you know better about Islam than the others without substantiating a ted bit, you are a liar like all the Moslums. You insult us each time you tell us you know better. What actually is wrong with you? Go to hell Alia with your Mo. You'll meat him there.

The media is very restricted in most Muslim countries. You wouldn't necessarily know what is happening in your country. For instance, in Saudi Arabia all crimes and misdemeanours by the vast Royal family are kept hidden from public view.

Rape does happen in Islamic countries. But a lot of abuse happens behind closed doors, as in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, where men consider all domestic servants fair game for sexual advances. Is sexual slavery as practised by Mohammed and his followers rape or is it not? Answer that simple question.

In a free society there are criminals. In islamic society the violent criminals become the imams and mullahs and are the leaders of society.

It may be true that there are just as many violent criminals in free societies, but at least they aren't running things like in the islamic world. In the free world, we put the nonviolent criminals (politicians) in charge.

Sarcasm: When Muhammad was preaching to the Jews and polytheists and Christians in Mecca and Medina his listeners were so impressed with the sublime spirituality, the excellence of the moral vision, the brilliance and beauty of Muhammed's teachings, that they were dumbfounded and unable to refute or counter any of the man's most perfect preaching. Muhammed's doctrines were insurmountable by means of rational argument. His hearers were struck impotent at his glorious brilliance. I mean, that stuff about the flying donkey and the talking animals and trees and stones. Who could think of any objections to those miraculous wonders.?
So, therefore they had to resort to violence against Muhammed our hero. The sole response was to threaten him and plot violence against him. What else could they do against such superior doctrines? And so, reluctantly, the good man was forced to defend himself.

LOL, Paul. You beat me to the punch, only I'd cast Snooky as Mariam the Egyptian, possibly Cloris Leachman as Kadijah, and find some up-and-coming child star to do Aisha. Now, we'd show none of the raunchy stuff, but...

I live in a muslim country that has very low criminal rate. Cancer and car accidents are the main causes of the deaths.

@nottoshariah Im not from Saudia nor Pakistan, Mohammad did not practise sexual rape towards slaves. Islam tried to solve the problem of the slaves that were in Arabia by encouraging the people in different ways to set their slaves free. The Prophet alone liberated as many as 63 slaves.The number of slaves freed by Aishah was 67, Abbas liberated 70, Abd Allah ibn Umar liberated one thousand, and Abd al-Rahman purchased thirty thousand and set them free...

My point that muslims should not be generalized because of those misunderstanders. And I do not know in person any of those misunderstanders that kill the inncocent people.And do not want to approach any of them. Not all muslims living as terrorists. Most of those groups are learning about Islam from the wrong people.

Indeed. Does this mean that all these islamic countries that operate (to greater or lesser degrees) under islamic law that require death for apostates; that prevent other faiths from constructing some much as a cardboard hovel to worship in; that will see you arrested for even possessing a bible; that all these countries with centuries of islamic history and learning are NOW learning from the wrong people?

Sorry, I'm not buying it. However, while I can't speak for everyone, I personally do not condemn all muslims. I condemn islam and those that make the conscience choice to remain mulim once the truth of it has been reveled to them.

At its core islam is a paranoid and violent belief system that not only separates, denigrates and causes fear of the other, but does the same amongst its adherents.

I have no truck with a belief system that separates its adherents apart but I do have a big problem with a belief system that will only be satisfied with total domination of the other. This is islam whether you care to believe it or not.

Be grateful you seem to be able to pick and chose what you like from it because the whole package is a poison pill.

I live in a muslim country that has very low criminal rate. Cancer and car accidents are the main causes of the deaths.

@nottoshariah Im not from Saudia nor Pakistan, Mohammad did not practise sexual rape towards slaves. Islam tried to solve the problem of the slaves that were in Arabia by encouraging the people in different ways to set their slaves free. The Prophet alone liberated as many as 63 slaves.The number of slaves freed by Aishah was 67, Abbas liberated 70, Abd Allah ibn Umar liberated one thousand, and Abd al-Rahman purchased thirty thousand and set them free...

@Big pete i have a bible application on my Ipad and the book itself in my library . It's sold in my country. I have the old testemant also. What is wrong with having and reading books other than the Qur'an?? Nobody will or can kill me because i have the books, No proof that I will ever be killed because of that reason. Islamic countries practice Islam not Taliban.I do not pick and chose, Im raised as a muslim , just with the right people.


May I ask what has those figures you produced to do with the article? How can you be sure those figures are correct, just because you read them? That doesn't mean a thing. Get real.

Care to tell us why would you want to read bible? If you love Christ, why don't you say so?

Blueraven ; If I am a liar why bother asking me a question?

Alia, if you love Christ you cannot love Mo or do you have different experience? Care to share that with us?
You said you have bible on the iPad, could you tell us which part of the Bible that you love to read most and why?

Verification. It could be I am mistaken, but I doubt that. Lets see how far we going with this. You can prove me wrong.

I believe in Jesus and yes I love him :)

Reposted: "Blueraven ; If I am a liar why bother asking me a question?"

Verification. It could be I am mistaken, but I doubt that. Lets see how far we going with this. You can prove me wrong.

Allah: Barack Obama.

Mohammed: the stinky Islamic Studies teacher I used to share an office with.

Aisha: any random black moving object recruited for stardom while cruising in Hyperpanda.

REAL subject of the movie??

How Western men deal with foot and eye fetishes.....

Alia: I believe in Jesus and yes I love him.

Great. Is there something in the Bible that you read which made you love him? If yo, what was it?

what do you think about "Muslim World League declares jihad against cinematic depictions of Muhammad"?

Ibn Kathir, perhaps the Muslim world's most popular Quran commentator, says Allah's pardon of the unbelievers was repealed by Quran Chapter 9 and its verses of the sword

Kathir explains here (if you go there, scroll down to the bottom third of the page) that Quran 2:106, which advises Muslims to be tolerant toward unbelievers, has been canceled by verses in Quran Chapter 9 (which Muslim scholars generally agree was one of the last Quran chapters revealed). Kathir quotes part of Quran 9:5, but here's the whole verse:

Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
And Kathir quotes part of Quran 9:29. Again, here's the whole verse:
Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger [Muhammad] have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth [Islam], out of those who have been given the Book [Christian and Jews], until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection [this subjection is a source of Islamic law's institution of dhimmitude, i.e., third-class legal status for non-Muslims].
Notice that 9:29 does not say "fight in self-defense." It says "fight those who do not believe" in Islam.


On Islam and the state of subjection referred to in 9:29, read Mark Durie's brilliant, concise, and very readable book, The Third Choice: Islam, Dhimmitude, and Freedom.

Anyway, then Kathir says,

Allah's pardon for the disbelievers was repealed. Abu Al-`Aliyah, Ar-Rabi` bin Anas, Qatadah and As-Suddi said similarly: "It [the pardon, or forgiveness] was abrogated by the Ayah [verse] of the sword." [Quran 9:5]

What a contrast! In 1977, a Ghadafi financed movie was released that cast "infidels" like Anthony Quinn as "sahaba" (companions of the fake "prophet"). And they allowed muhammad to have been an active participant in the "Uhud" defeat (Note - revisionists now claim that he rejected participation, causing the debacle).
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0074896/

Incidently, at the time of release, Philadelphia arabist wannabes took hostages to protest the film.

Reminder: before-Bush, a photo of Egyptian Cabinet Ministers and their wives, featured Western garbed ladies. Post-Bush, a photo of the same theme, featured islamized females (or alternate sperm receptacles). that is what happens when a US leader proclaims "islam is peace" and coerces Egypt to release muslim brotherhood animals. (Note - 19,000 ikhwanis were rotting in prison, until Bush's emancipation proclamation) Yet, Bush is still loved at this website. You people need to test your beliefs.

Alia - what happened? Is it time for your prayers? Come back and answer some fo those Qs for the interesting folks.

I read the Bible because Im interested in comparative religion, not because I love Jesus more than Mohammad.I believe in all the prophets starting from Abraham to Mohammad.
Good luck BlueRaven , I do not have to explain myself to you.

From what I and the world sees of this CULT called Islam it is nothing short of a travesty.

Alia and her ilk are living in brainwashed denial of the horrid factual history of her murderous CULT!

Thank GOD we have the prohibition in our Constitution from being put under a backward CULT like Islam as the law of the land!

Maybe it's time to crank up a new CRUSADE to rid the world of this pestilence that preys on the ignorant and uneducated!!

BTW Ms Alia and company, don't even try to compare the followers of Christ or any other real religion with your demented CULT of DEATH!

" Islamic countries practice Islam not Taliban ".

Then what do you make of the home of Islam, Saudi Arabia, the " conservative " desert kingdom ?

Certainly, the king is not Taliban, but it is one of the most repressive places on earth ( for kuffir, that is ).

Re slavery: Thomas Sowell reported estimates that slaves-of-allah used 17,000,000 African and European slaves, and that most of same were worked to death. In stark contrast, Europeans enslaved 10,000,000 Africans - and none of their own - and most survived. Of course, 1 was too many.

How on earth could anyone deny that islam is not only an arab supremacist cult; it is a hijaz-oriented hierarchy? A paki or indo may learn arabic, but they won't be accepted by Hijaz - or even Negd - arabs as equals. Shiite dogma is even more fixated on blood-supremacy (ahl-bayt). Liberty is anathema to a slave-of-allah.

I hold Pashtos in contempt because they accept that they are an inferior race, who must emulate that savageries of the "sahaba." Murder-cult emulation books - few of which feature the phony "prophet" - sell millions to paki and pashto primitives.

I don't know what they're talking about. What cinematic depictions of Muhammad?

Lemme see... Kiefer Sutherland switched from hairy Moslems to disgruntled ex-U.S. military men with blond hair and blue eyes on 24 and gave a televised apology to all Moslems everywhere... Jodie Foster lambasted air marshalls (read: white men) in Flight Plan ... Reese Witherspoon spooned out a load o' bull with Rendition's heartstring-tugging tale of a Moslem boyfriend victimized by American officials... Jamie Foxx went the misunderstood-exotic-nuanced Moslem Man route with Kingdom, Matt Stone and Trey Parker attempted their normal satire on the Holy Prophet and were flat shut down by Viacom, the cable network that airs South Park...

*** Bukhari Vol 4 Bk 52 Nbr 268 ***

Mohammed said, "War is deceit".

That's quite a list. And it's only a partial list.

Alia: Good luck BlueRaven , I do not have to explain myself to you.

You are right you don't have to explain. But you were the one told us we got it all wrong without any substance.

Your remarks "I read the Bible because Im interested in comparative religion, not because I love Jesus more than Mohammad.I believe in all the prophets starting from Abraham to Mohammad."

ARE too general and the usual BS from a MoSlum. Let me explain something, if you are interested in comparisons between religions, you would be able to tell US in a heart beat what comparisons that you found interesting and why. You statements are full of bull. All Moslums say they read the Bible and they can never be specific because they never had. Thats when I draw my conclusion.

Better luck withh your f..ing taque on someplace else.
Bye bye.

@ paul
"Then what do you make of the home of Islam, Saudi Arabia, the " conservative " desert kingdom ?"

I believe in what Saudia Arabia is practising, and respect the country. Being conservative doesn't mean they are violent or ignorant. Its been this way a very long time ago Since the prophet Mohammad. Plus it's a holy place for all the muslims.

They aren't practising what Taliban doing for example women can study and can also work. They will probably even drive. Some saudi girls are even studying abroad.

Interesting thoughts, Kepha, lol !

And there's probably a place for Paris Hilton, and the Kardashian sisters !

A creative Hollywood writer could make an awesome movie !

From a core Islamic text, a hadith in which Muhammad said there is to be no punishment for murdering someone who insults Muhammad

Here, from Sunan Abu-Dawud, a canonical hadith collection, is a hadith that shows Muhammad supporting the murder of a woman by her husband, merely because she used to speak to her husband insultingly about Muhammad:

Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 38, Number 4348:

Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

A blind man had a slave-mother [a slave who bore children for him] who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He [the blind man] forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he [the blind man] took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.

He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

Another canonical hadith:
Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 38, Number 4349:

Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:
A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.

" They will probably even drive ".

That sentence by itself, speaks volumes. Women are second class citizens in Islam.

I just can't understand why you are okay with that..

" Some saudi girls are even studying abroad ".

You make that sound like it's some sort of major victory, where as in a free society, that's a given.

You are making the case against yourself, with your own words.

Alia,

I think it was you who brought up rape. Well, this one's for you.

Sweden appears to be a case study in how rape follows Muslims like darkness follows the setting sun.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZtc2ma2GEQ

2010 International Religious Freedom Report: Saudi Arabia

Excerpt:

...the Commission for the Promotion of Virtue and Prevention of Vice (CPVPV) and security forces of the Ministry of Interior (MOI) continued to raid private non-Muslim religious gatherings...Under the government's official interpretation of Islam, there is no legal recognition or protection of religious freedom, which is severely restricted in practice...The Islamic judicial system is based on laws derived from the Qur'an and the Sunna (traditions and sayings of the Prophet Muhammad)...In the event a court renders a judgment in favor of a plaintiff who is a Jewish or Christian male, the plaintiff is only entitled to receive 50 percent of the compensation a Muslim male would receive; all others are only entitled to receive one-sixteenth the amount a male Muslim would receive.

I saw 100+ comments and figured something had to be up.

So, Alia, I have my own questions for you:

1. Do you repudiate the death penalty for apostasy?

2. Do you repudiate the notion that a man has any right to strike a woman? For any reason? Ever?

3. Do you repudiate flogging and stoning for adultery?

4. Do you repudiate the jizya tax?

4a. Do you know what the jizya tax is?

5. Do you repudiate the subjugation of non-Muslims and do you repudiate their second-class status under Islamic law?

Yes or no?

It shouldn't take you long.

Paul Saudia is the only country where women do not drive.And maybe Afghanistan.
Im not okay with that. Im hoping they will be allowed to drive. Im a direct person Im not trying to
In my country women can vote and drive.There are even female police.

"About abu sufyan ibn Harb; he was the leader of the Quraysh who led many expeditions against the Muslims,"

This is one of your many lies. Mohammad was the war monger that led expeditions against quraysh. Meccans and Medinans were largely peaceful before mohammad brought strife there. He was the one who started looting quraysh caravans.

"The Prophet alone liberated as many as 63 slaves."

How did he have those slaves in the first place? He did not inherit them. He waged war that resulted in booty that included women and children. He basically actively promoted slavery.

Alia, you tell us that we should respect mohammad the way you respect Christ. But, Christ was worthy of respect. SO it is no wonder that you should respect him. Your prophet on the other hand is unworthy of respect. We will show him no more respect than any other undeserving cult leader.

I'm glad to know that you are not okay with that. Most normal people wouldn't be..

Marisol has just asked you some very specific questions, and I am interested in reading your response to them.

Nobody will or can kill me because i have the books, No proof that I will ever be killed because of that reason. Islamic countries practice Islam not Taliban

Ali,

I am glad that this is the condition you find yourself in. While some might find you suspect I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and consider you of sincere conscience.

Even so we must disagree as to the nature of islam. Your positive experiences not withstanding it is hard to deny the continuously bloody path its followers have cut through the ages and continue to until this very day. And please don't point to other periods of religious strife as they are just that, periods.

I encourage you to keep asking questions about islam, about Christianity, about history in your pursuit of the truth. Please, however, be careful of what and whom you ask for answers lest you discover the unpleasant side of islam first hand.

I wish you the best.

Alia,

Judging from your comments the impression I get is that, you are a sincere Muslim, with traditional Muslim values.

What I think needs to be recognized though is that those who you believe are misunderstanders of Islam, understand Islam quite well. They are the exploiters of Islam and not It's misunderstanders and yes, you and I, are their victims.

They seek wealth, power and influence, by useing what you hold dear, to further and sustain their agenda. Make no mistake these exploiters of Islam are not doing this for religious redemption.

You Alia, apologize for them because of your upbringing. But unfortunately they, because of what I've just expressded, have resurrected the 7th century. They have done so, in order to confuse, extort and dominate, through fear and duplicity.

It's an error to think that all this preoccupation with Islam is about religion. It is a social, political and economic strategy, that uses religion to further it's agenda

I would like to end by saying that we are not against Muslims, we are against violent Jihad, the oppression of Shari'ah and those who are using it to further it's agenda.

Therefore if you are not a violent Jihadist and do not advocate oppressive Shari'ah, We do not hate you.

How the Sowdi master race (the best of peoples) treats the slaves:

Indonesian maid shows wounds to Saudi court

RIYADH (AFP) – An Indonesian house maid who has accused her female Saudi employer of stabbing, beating and burning her appeared in court for the first time on Wednesday and showed her wounds, an Indonesian official said.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110105/wl_asia_afp/saudiindonesialabourwomenrightstrial

In core Islamic texts, Muhammad says your lives and property are not safe from him unless you become a Muslim

In Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:

Volume 1, Book 2, Number 24:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:

Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform all that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Allah - Tim Curry
Mohammad - Alan Hale Jr.
Gabriel - Linda Blair
Aisha - Al Pacino

Alia said:

"I live in a muslim country that has very low criminal rate. Cancer and car accidents are the main causes of the deaths.

@nottoshariah Im not from Saudia nor Pakistan, Mohammad did not practise sexual rape towards slaves. Islam tried to solve the problem of the slaves that were in Arabia by encouraging the people in different ways to set their slaves free. The Prophet alone liberated as many as 63 slaves.The number of slaves freed by Aishah was 67, Abbas liberated 70, Abd Allah ibn Umar liberated one thousand, and Abd al-Rahman purchased thirty thousand and set them free..."

That Mohammed's followers practised sexual slavery and that Mohammed approved the institution is clear from the Koran and the traditional Sharia law that was in place in Islam, down the centuries, until very recently (since the fall of the Caliphate).

The fact that you seem very wary (rightly I would say) of saying from which country you come from is support for my contention that there is little freedom in Islamic countries.

The fact that Mohammed and his followers could free so many slaves, shows just how many they possessed. Nowhere is it recorded that they opposed slavery or freed all their slaves.

The idea that Mohammed showed restraint and never had sexual relations with his female slaves, given his legendary potency, requires a level of credulity that I don't possess and nowhere in the sacred or secular writings is it ever suggested that he did exercise such restraint.

Let's not forget this guy is supposed to be a perfect example. A perfect example would (a) not have taken slaves (b) would not have approved of the sexual abuse of slaves and (c) would have ensured his own slaves and the slaves of his followers would ALL be freed.

Allah -- Boris Karloff
Muhammad -- Robert Deniro
"Gabriel" -- Anthony Perkins
Aisha -- Chris Rock

I cannot pass all this by without mentioning Alia's words about Westerners killing their children. I presume she mentions abortion. Indeed it it dreadful. And in the last Muslim country I was in women did not have access to abortion, so unwanted babies were born and then put in the street for the dogs to eat. Many of these children did not die but were collected, to go into an orphanage (since closed down because of corruption and theft of donations: what happened to the babies?) I saw those babies. Some were healthy, while some were blinded from ants chewing their eyes in the street, others miising limbs which were taken off by dogs, others mentally retarded from dehydration before being found, others pathetically tiny.

I am not going to judge which is worse, abortion or putting babies in the street to die. But Alia should know that for quite valid reasons, we Westerners don't share her view that Muslims are moral and we are not.

Can I put it any more politely than that?

I totally don't know of any Biblical prophets who took slaves and... oh yeah.

Jesus (sallahu aleyhi wa sellam) said what exactly about abolishing slavery? Nothing? Got it.

I love how it's only Islam that's ever on the block for criticism yet all of the Old Testament prophets (adored still by Jews who lack a New Testament, please don't say "but Jesus said!") seemed to have a righteous hankering for slaves or even sex with slaves.

What exactly did Moses (sallahu aleyhi wa sellam) prescribe for the virgin girls of the Midianites (the only ones of their people left alive doncha know!) for his victorious people? Sexual slavery! At least, according to the Bible. I personally have a hard time accepting that prophets are alright with that but hey...

The prophet and his companions made a big deal not just of freeing slaves but making them important figures in the Ummah. I'm sorry but... where's the inclusion of slaves freed by the prophets of old into important positions within society?

In the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, pages 511-517 (758-766 in the Arabic) we learn how in Khaybar Muhammad ordered the torture and beheading of a man in order to get hold of a treasure, and how that night Muhammad took into his private tent for consummation of "marriage" the tortured man's widow, whose father and other male relatives Muhammad had just killed:

Kinana b. al-Rabi', who had the custody of the treasure of the B. al-Nadir, was brought to the apostle who asked him about it. He denied that he knew where it was. A Jew came (Tabari says "was brought") to the apostle and said that he had seen Kinana going round a certain ruin every morning early. When the apostle [Muhammad] said to Kinana, 'Do you know that if we find you have it I shall kill you?' he said Yes. The apostle gave orders that the ruin was to be excavated and some of the treasure was found. When he asked him about the rest he refused to produce it, so the apostle [Muhammad] gave orders to al-Zubayr b. al-'Awwam, 'Torture him until you extract what he has,' so he kindled a fire with flint and steel on his chest until he was nearly dead. Then the apostle delivered him to Muhammad b. Maslama and he struck off his head in revenge for his brother Mahmud. [-- page 515 (763-764 in the Arabic)]
...The apostle took captives...among whom was Safiya d. Huyayy b. Akhtab who had been the wife of Kinana b. al-Rabi’ b. Abu’l-Huqayq, and two cousins of hers. The apostle chose Safiya for himself. [-- page 511 (758 in the Arabic)]
When the apostle married Safiya in Khaybar or on the way, she having been beautified and combed, and got in a fit state for the apostle by Umm Sulaym d. Milhan mother of Anas b. Malik, the apostle passed the night with her in a tent of his. Abu Ayyub, Khalid b. Zayd brother of B. al-Najjar passed the night girt with his sword, guarding the apostle and going round the tent until in the morning the apostle saw him and asked him what he meant by his action. He replied, ‘I was afraid for you with this woman for you have killed her father, her husband, and her people, and till recently she was in unbelief, so I was afraid for you on her account.’ They allege that the apostle said ‘O God, preserve Abu Ayyub as he spent the night preserving me.’ [-- page 516-517 (766 in the Arabic)]

Alia sez:
"What is wrong with having and reading books other than the Qur'an?? Nobody will or can kill me because i have the books, No proof that I will ever be killed because of that reason."


well, maybe not yet, but in February 2009 this happened:

"Muslim man in Egypt killed his wife because she was reading the Bible and then buried her with their infant baby and an 8-year-old daughter. The girls were buried alive! Then He reported to the police that an uncle killed the kids.... "


Islam...feel the love....

GerbilTea -

I'd say the same to people who hold up the OT prophets as great moral exemplars. They clearly were not, by any rational understanding of ethics. Jesus is clearly of a different order. He may have said nothing directly about slavery but there is no evidence he ever owned a slave himself, or that he exploited people. Quite the reverse. He effectively stopped the stoning of an adulterous woman, whereas Mohammed pointedly let a stoning go ahead.

But in terms of the modern world it is clear that Judaism, practised by maybe 20 million people and which has no ambition to reign over the whole planet cannot be compared with Islam, followed by 1.5billion and with an ideology that clearly requires domination of the whole planet.

The sad thing is, Alia may well be learning about some of these authenticised Hadith and so on for the first time as Muslims (as opposed to clerics) are sometimes kept in ignorance of them.

I think perhaps we shouldn't be too hard on her. It must be difficult for her when faced with the reality of Mohammed's pronouncements on assassination, sexual slavery and so on.

And it is rather pathetic she has to appeal to "female police officers" and (some) women studying abroad as evidence of Islam's fantastic social progress.

Moses lived about 2000 years before Muhammad, a little detail GerbilTea conveniently ignores.

See this excellent video -- German with English subtitles: Muslims were responsible for more slavery over longer periods than Europeans were responsible for, a little detail GerbilTea conveniently ignores.

The movements to abolish slavery were started by Christians, acting from Christian conviction. See William Wilberforce, for example, a little detail GerbilTea conveniently ignores.

Alia said

"I believe in what Saudia Arabia is practising, and respect the country. "

I don't understand exactly what you respect. In other posts you said:

"We are all free to choose our religions ."

"i have a bible application on my Ipad and the book itself in my library . It's sold in my country."

"Im not okay with [women not being allowed to drive].

I mean, I know there is a lot more to Saudi Arabia than just these issues, but what about Saudi Arabia do you respect?

Also, you said.

" Have u forgotten those [criminal] cases? In my country there are no strange stories as those happening in urs...
...I live in a muslim country that has very low criminal rate. Cancer and car accidents are the main causes of the deaths. "

What do you think are the leading causes of death in non-Muslim countries? In the USA.

1. Diseases of the heart
28.5
2. Malignant tumors 22.8
3. Cerebrovascular diseases 6.7
4. Chronic lower respiratory diseases 5.1
5. Accidents (unintentional injuries) 4.4
6. Diabetes mellitus 3.0
7. Influenza and pneumonia 2.7
8. Alzheimer's disease 2.4
9. Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis 1.7
10. Septicemia (blood poisoning) 1.4

And "strange stories" happen in every country.

On page 672 (992 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, he says

...kill those who disbelieve in God.


"Muhammad: Steve Buscemi"

I had always imagined that was more of a Mickey Rourke sort of role.

or better yet: Carol Channing! The role she was born to play!

Or Zha Zha Gabore. "strike off zer heads until ye have made a great slaughter among zem, Dah-lings."

You gotta admit, if they just yelled "Dah-lings" instead of "allah akbar" before murder, their death cult would have a bit more zaz.

"What a part for Gary Coleman?"

Gary Coleman could Play Aisha.

"You gonna put your thing where? Whachootalkinbout Muhammad?"

Perhaps you live in Kuwait or Dubai?

Marisol asked some very crucial questions. And we now know that mainstream Islam supports the deathpenalty for apostasy from Islam. Totally at variance with the freedom of religion there is in the other major religions; Chr. Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism and of course for atheists. Traeh already pointed out how your prophet-rolemodel instituted that.

In most courts in the Islamic world, and also in Kuwait, the testimony of a woman in court is only half in worth of that of a man. And that goes back to Quran 2:282 (QURAN, not Hadith!): "And call two witnesses from among your MEN, two witnesses. And if two MEN BE NOT AT HAND, THEN A MAN AND TWO WOMEN OF SUCH AS YE APPROVE ...... "

Nonie Darwish, an ex-Muslim-Islam-expert from Egypt, pointed in "Shariah for Dummies" 33 clear anti-democratic laws and principles in Shariah-law. And Ekmeleddin Ihsanoglu, chairman of OIC (all 56 Muslim countries) points out that "All Muslims should according to Islam be first and foremest loyal to the Ummah".

And the Ummah contains Saudi Arabia, Iran, Pakistan, Jemen, Sudan; all countries with functioning dreadful shariah laws. Al Qaida and Taliban doubtlessly also support the Ummah. Those are who you are "in bed" with, politically speaking. Unless you join a Muslim group that openly separates from it.

And you, by calling yourself a Muslima, in no declared reformed way, are to be held accountable for supporting the Islamic laws and bad behavior and situations that are abundantly mentioned on this site and many others. In this way you cause and are very deservingly get mockery of the originator of all this, Muhammed.

Your ignorance is no excuse, your religion is either a. causing much of these anti-democratic laws, deeds and situations or b. hopelessly vague, shortcoming, multi-interpretable and because of that

criminally vulnerable to huge misuse and misunderstanding, resulting in anti-democratic, anti-women, anti-kuffar laws, behavior, situations, in a most disrespectful way.

I am sorry. I've been ignoring this democracy baiter Alia (who I don't believe for an instant is a woman- just someone hiding as a woman because he thinks people will be more respectfull and not call him on his filth) but I couldn't resist this:

"I live in a muslim country that has very low criminal rate."

That's because there's nothing worth stealing! DUH!

And befire IT responds: This site may be about debating the lies of muslims but

At the end of the day these assholes are defending the 16,500 terrorist attacks upon muslim, bhuddist and chistian CIVILIANS since 9/11. Over 18,000 murder victims in the last 2 years alone.

So my attitude about muslim obfusticators and apologists is this:

When a lunatic smears his shit on the wall I don't care what pattern it makes.

Democratic laws can be changed and augmented, in parliament, all misunderstandings can be analysed and then the text can be improved, updated and fine-tuned.

In contrast Islamic laws are considered the immutable word of God. But that means they have not been updated in Quran and Hadith for at least 1200 years.

And the Quran claims to be clear, several times, but cannot be clear on many issues, when afterwards all sorts of contradictions and outdated theories are shown and all sorts of questions asked because of the changing world.

And after being told this, still no movement of Muslims ever proposes ANY meaningful reform. Afraid, that if the would, they would be assassinated, like governor Salman Taseer the other day.

But still you muslims are mostly sane adult humans and this IS your responsibility. You are not to be considered insane, simple-minded, childish or ape-like but you won't ever take real appreciable responsibility.

@ GarbledLies

You wrote: 'Jesus (sallahu aleyhi wa sellam) said what exactly about abolishing slavery? Nothing? Got it.'

Jesus said, 'Do unto others as you would do unto yourself.'

So, if you wouldn't want to be kept as a slave, free any slaves you own. Also, in Islam, which means 'submission' everybody is a slave!! 'Abd' in Arabic means slave. King Abdullah means 'King, slave of Allah.' A king who is a slave!!

It also says in the Bible that God's truth will set you free, not enslave you. You, Garble, are a slave, a slave of Islam. I, in contrast, am a free man.

That's the difference between Islam and Christianity.

In core Islamic texts, Muhammad allows his soldiers to rape their captive women:

From Sahih Muslim, a canonical hadith collection:
Book 008, Number 3371:

Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger [Muhammad] (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.

Notice that Muhammad did not say, "do not rape your captive women." He merely says it does not matter if his soldiers withdraw before ejaculation, because souls destined by Allah to be born will be born regardless.

From Sahih Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:
Volume 5, Book 59, Number 459:

Narrated Ibn Muhairiz:
I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Said Al-Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Said said, "We went out with Allah's Apostle for the Ghazwa [battle at which Muhammad was present] of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus, we said, 'How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] who is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said, 'It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist."

Again notice that, in answer to his soldiers' queries Muhammad doesn't say "You must not force your captives to have intercourse with you." He says only that coitus interruptus, withdrawing prior to ejaculation, is pointless, because souls predestined to exist will exist regardless.

Again in Sahih Bukhari:
Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's Apostle [Muhammad] about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection."

Thus Muhammad does not forbid his men to rape their captives, but merely says that it's better not to do coitus interruptus. His men were to keep going till coitus was complete.

@exsgtbrown
I do not choose christianity over Islam. Im a muslim and proud.

@treah

Slavery was a worldwide common social phenomenon, it was much older than Islam. Slavery was deeply rooted in every society.

(Those whom your right hand possess) Thus, it was a war custom in the past to take men and women as captives and then turn them into slaves. Islam did not initiate it, rather, it was something in practice long ago before the advent of Islam. And when Islam came, it tried to eradicate this practice, bit by bit. So it first restricted it to the reciprocal practice of war, in the sense that Muslims took war captives just as the enemies did with Muslims.But as it aimed at putting an end to such issue, Islam laid down rules which would eventually lead to eradicating the practice. So it allowed Muslims to have intercourse with slave women taken as captives of just and legitimate wars. In so doing, the woman would automatically become free if she got pregnant. What's more, her child would also become free.
Islam also ordered a Muslim to treat the slave woman in every respect as if she were his wife. She should be well fed, clothed and given due protection. In the family environment, she had the opportunity to learn about Islam and was free to accept it or reject it. She also had the opportunity to earn her freedom.


Jjknine Truthiocity
Im not hiding as a woman , I am a woman. I don't have to hide anywhere.

Alia,

I felt sorry for you at one point - but now you are resorting to direct lies.

How on earth did slavery persist in Islam to the present day if a pregnant slave was automatically freed. Please give a citation for this absurd claim, for which there is no warrant.

Furthermore Islam did NOT restrict slave-making to persons captured in war. It made slaves of all persons born to slaves - little innocents who had never lifted a finger against Islam, even if the child was born to a Muslim parent and was a Muslim. What a just religion you follow!

You've ignored all those including me who have pointed out that if Mohammed freed some slaves (a common practice amongst all immoral slavers throughout history)he must have owned slaves. I would like to hear you admit that, given he is the "perfect example" for all mankind. Given he was a Prophet as you say, and the one to deliver the last message from God to humanity you'd have thought he could have done a bit better than owning slaves himself. What sort of example was that to the other Muslims if Islam was trying to eradicate it bit by bit.

Lastly, I would point out that you will be hard pressed to actually find an Islamic scholar who rules slavery positively illegal under Sharia even in the modern era. Anti-slavery legislation has generally been an initiative of governments in the Islamic world, not clerics.

@Buraq

"ye, shall take them (the slaves) as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them (the slaves) for a possession, they shall be, your BONDMEN (slaves) for ever . . . LEVITICUS 25:46

From the Bible

So what do the Bible really say about the slaves??!?!? that they shouldnt be free and kept forever?!? and also be inherited? are they like a Chanel bag??

About being slaves to Allah means we do not worship other God but Allah. And muslims all accept being slaves of Allah. This is why we say "la elaha ela allah" it means no God but Allah.

"I saw 100+ comments and figured something had to be up.

So, Alia, I have my own questions for you:

1. Do you repudiate the death penalty for apostasy?

2. Do you repudiate the notion that a man has any right to strike a woman? For any reason? Ever?

3. Do you repudiate flogging and stoning for adultery?

4. Do you repudiate the jizya tax?

4a. Do you know what the jizya tax is?

5. Do you repudiate the subjugation of non-Muslims and do you repudiate their second-class status under Islamic law?

Yes or no?

It shouldn't take you long."


Apparently is.

I see what you see.

Marisol asked those questions quite a while ago.

The Muslim has steadfastly refused to answer them, because each of them requires nothing other than a straight Yes or No.

gerbiltea says "I totally don't know of any Biblical prophets who took slaves and... oh yeah."

That makes slavery okay? That prophet had slaves, so it is okay that this prophet wages wars and takes more slaves? Two wrongs do not make a right. It only makes a logical fallacy.
(But I seriously doubt if any single biblical prophet did all that mohammad did - slave trading, murdering, war mongering, robbing caravans, having sex with children etc. Calling him a "prophet" is a blasphemy against God.)

And, for your information, there is nothing in Christ's words or actions that promotes or allows slavery. In fact, a true reading of Christ's words makes it wrong.


Alia says "Islam did not initiate it, rather, it was something in practice long ago before the advent of Islam. And when Islam came, it tried to eradicate this practice, bit by bit."

This is errant nonsense. You prophet waged wars and captured more slaves to be traded. Does this sound like eradicating slavery to you? In fact, Saudi banned slavery only because American president twisted the king's arm.

Alia is cherry-picking the questions she wants to answer.

She is it seems refusing to indicate whether or not she accepts that (a) Mohammed owned slaves and (b) Mohammed is a perfect example for all Muslims.

She refuses to answer the question of what her citations are for claiming that pregnant slaves were manumitted or that Islam was seeking to abolish slavery.


The first forum to catch my eye on Ummah.com several years ago was questions and answers about Slavery under Islam. The moderators were all for it, they saw nothing wrong with it, it was all bliss and advantages for the slave, and the few who objected - besides the deeply astonished and shocked non-Muslim - were treated with the usual condescending forbearance and references to whatever justified the praxis.

I followed the forum for a short time, I saw nothing change and I finally gave up in disgust. Of course it is not a general attitude among Muslims in West, but last time I looked around on the net for similar opinions I realized they were a bit more common than anticipated.

Slavery is nearly as old as sin itself, and all cultures has been through stages when the most cost-effective workhorse was man himself. For example the Bible with the numerous "servants" who tend to pop up, very probably often slaves. That was then.

Islam however as the last major religion/ideology still has a problem here. Where I was born there is still a very living community memory of the Babary slavers who raided the coasts, the 19th Century explorers of the darkest Africa met Arab slavers almost everywhere they went; but only these last years it has become public knowledge that some societies still are clinging to this old abhorrent tradition because it is quite obvious that the Quran takes it for granted. Any man would rather be free than a slave, and so of course it is a good deed to free a slave who might even be able and willing to pay for it.

Certainly Muhammad and companions freed slaves - although a more skeptical mind than mine might consider this another way of enhancing the numbers of the devoted faithful - but this is all upon the words of old Muslim sources. More to the point is this snippet from Wikipedia (usual reservations applies): In 2003 a high-level Saudi jurist, Shaykh Saleh Al-Fawzan, issued a fatwa claiming “Slavery is a part of Islam. Slavery is part of jihad, and jihad will remain as long there is Islam.” He attacked Muslim scholars who said otherwise maintaining, “They are ignorant, not scholars ... They are merely writers. Whoever says such things is an infidel.” At the time of the fatwa, al-Fawzan was a member of the Senior Council of Clerics, Saudi Arabia’s highest religious body, a member of the Council of Religious Edicts and Research, the Imam of Prince Mitaeb Mosque in Riyadh, and a professor at Imam Mohamed Bin Saud Islamic University, the main Wahhabi center of learning in the country.

This Alia lady is so ignorant concerning her own authentic writings. Sure bogus prophet Mudhammam did not invented slavery. But he was very eager to practice it. After killing the Banu Qurayzah men he sold their women and children into slavery:
"Then the apostle divided the property, wives, and children of B. Qurayza among the Muslims, and he made known on that day the shares of horse and men, and took out the fifth. A horseman got three shares, two for the horse and one for his rider. A man without a horse got one share. On the day of B. Qurayza there were thirty-six horses. It was the first booty on which lots were cast and the fifth was taken. According to its precedent and what the apostle did the divisions were made, and it remained the custom for raids". The Life of Muhammad (Sirat Rasul Allah)page 466.
Mudhammam used coercion against attractive women in order to have his sexual pleasures:
“The apostle had chosen one of their women for himself, Rayhana d. `Amr b. Khunafa, one of the women of B. 'Amr b. Qurayza, and she remained with him until she died, in his power.”

Questions for Alia -

From the Qur'an -

"Show us the straight path, The path of those whom Thou hast favoured; Not the (path) of those who earn Thine anger nor of those who go astray."
Muslims generally interpret "those whom Allah has favored," "those who earn Allah's anger," and "those who go astray" as Muslims, Jews, and Christians, respectively. 1:6-7
Don't bother to warn the disbelievers. Allah has blinded them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 2:6
Allah has sickened their hearts. A painful doom is theirs because they lie. 2:10
Allah has blinded the disbelievers. 2:17-18
A fire has been prepared for the disbelievers, whose fuel is men and stones. 2:24
Disbelievers will be burned with fire. 2:39, 2:90
Allah stamped wretchedness upon the Jews because they killed the prophets and disbelieved Allah's revelations. 2:61
Allah turned the Sabbath-breaking Jews into apes. 2:65-66
If you believe in only part of the Scripture, you will suffer in this life and go to hell in the next. 2:85
Allah has cursed them for their unbelief. 2:88
The curse of Allah is on disbelievers. 2:89
Jews are the greediest of all humankind. They'd like to live 1000 years. But they are going to hell. 2:96
Allah is an enemy to the disbelievers. 2:98
Only evil people are disbelievers. 2:99
For disbelievers is a painful doom. 2:104
Don't question anything Muhammed says or choose disbelief over faith. 2:108
"But those who keep their duty to Allah will be above them [non-muslims] on the Day of Resurrection." 2:212
For unbelievers: ignominy in this world, an awful doom in the next. 2:114
"And thou wilt not be asked about the owners of hell-fire." (They are the non-muslims.) 2:119
Disbelievers are losers. 2:121
Allah will leave the disbelievers alone for a while, but then he will compel them to the doom of Fire. 2:126
"Who forsaketh the religion of Abraham save him who befooleth himself?"
Cited in the Hamas Charter (Article 27) to condemn the idea of a secular state. 2:130
Those who reject the proofs, are accursed of Allah. 2:159
Those who die disbelievers, are cursed by Allah, angels, and men. 2:161
The doom of the disbelievers will not be lightened. 2:162
They will not emerge from the Fire. 2:167
Disbelievers will be deaf, dumb, and blind. 2:171
Those who hide the Scripture will have their bellies eaten with fire. Theirs will be a painful doom. 2:174
How constant are they in their strife to reach the Fire! 2:175
Believers must retaliate. Those who transgress will have a painful doom. 2:178
Kill disbelievers wherever you find them. If they attack you, then kill them. Such is the reward of disbelievers. (But if they desist in their unbelief, then don't kill them.) 2:191-2
Fight them until "religion is for Allah." 2:193
Those who fail in their duty to Allah are proud and sinful. They will all go to hell. 2:206
War is ordained by Allah, and all Muslims must be willing to fight, whether they like it or not. 2:216
Those who die in their disbelief will burn forever in the Fire. 2:217
Intermarriage is forbidden. 2:221
The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers. 2:254
Disbelievers worship false gods. The will burn forever in the Fire. 2:257
Allah does not guide disbelievers. 2:264
"Give us victory over the disbelieving folk." 2:286
Those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah, theirs will be a heavy doom. 3:4
Those who disbelieve will be fuel for the Fire. 3:10
Those who disbelieve shall be overcome and gathered unto Hell. 3:12
Non-muslims will be punished by Allah for their nonbelief. 3:19
"If they surrender, then truly they are rightly guided, and if they turn away, then it is thy duty only to convey the message."
(The message for those who won't surrender is "you're going to hell.") 3:20
Those who disbelieve, promise them a painful doom. 3:21
"They [Christians and Jews] say: The Fire will not touch us save for a certain number of days. That which they used to invent hath deceived them regarding their religion." (The Fire will burn them forever.) 3:24
Let not the believers take disbelievers for their friends in preference to believers. 3:28
Allah loveth not the disbelievers. 3:32
Allah will punish disbelievers in this world and the next. They will have no helpers. 3:56
Don't believe anyone who is not a Muslim. 3:73
Theirs will be a painful doom. 3:77
All non-Muslims will be rejected by Allah after they die. 3:85
Apostates will be cursed by Allah, angels, and men. They will have a painful doom. 3:86-88
Disbelievers will have a painful doom. And they will have no helpers. 3:91
Disbelievers will have their faces blackened on the last day. They will face an awful doom. 3:105-6
Muslims are the best people. Most Non-muslims are "evil-livers." 3:110
Those who disbelieve will be burnt in the Fire. 3:116
Don't be friends with non-Muslims. They all hate you and want to ruin you. 3:118
The Fire is prepared for disbelievers. 3:131
Give us victory over the disbelieving folk. 3:147
Do not obey disbelievers. 3:149
We shall cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Their habitation is the Fire 3:151
"Is one who followeth the pleasure of Allah as one who hath earned condemnation from Allah, whose habitation is the Fire?"
Unbelievers will burn forever in the Fire. 3:162
Theirs will be an awful doom. 3:176
Disbelievers do not harm Allah, but will have a painful doom. 3:177
Disbelievers will go to Hell. 3:196
Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will be burnt with fire and suffer a painful doom. 4:14
For the disbelievers and those who make a last-minute conversion, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:18
For disbelievers, We prepare a shameful doom. 4:37
"Allah has cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not." 4:46
Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers. (See 2:65-66) 4:47
Those who ascribe a partner to Allah (like Christians do with Jesus and the Holy Spirit) will not be forgiven. They have "invented a tremendous sin." 4:48, 4:116
Those who invent lies about Allah are guilty of flagrant sin. 4:50
Jews and Christians believe in idols and false deities, yet they claim to be more rightly guided than Muslims. 4:51
"Those (Christians and Jews) are they whom Allah hath cursed." 4:52
Hell is sufficient for their burning. 4:55
Unbelievers will be tormented forever with fire. When their skin is burned off, a fresh skin will be provided. 4:56
Those who refuse to follow Muhammad, follow false gods and are deceived by Satan. 4:60
Those who refuse to believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad are hypocrites. 4:61
Oppose and admonish those who refuse to follow Muhammad. 4:63
The hypocrites refuse to die for Allah and Muhammad. 4:66
Those who obey Allah and Muhammad are favored by Allah. They are the best company. 4:69
Allah will bestow a vast reward on those who fight in religious wars. 4:74
Believers fight for Allah; disbelievers fight for the devil. So fight the minions of the devil. 4:76
Allah casts the hypocrites back to disbelief. Don't try to guide those that Allah sends astray. 4:88
Have no unbelieving friends. Kill the unbelievers wherever you find them. 4:89
If the unbelievers do not offer you peace, kill them wherever you find them. Against such you are given clear warrant. 4:91
Believers shouldn't kill believers, unless by mistake. If you kill a believer by mistake, you must set free a believing slave. 4:92
Believers who kill believers will go to hell. 4:93
The disbelievers are an open enemy to you. 4:101
For the disbelievers, Allah has prepared a shameful punishment. 4:102
Relent not in pursuit of the enemy. They have no hope from Allah. 4:104
Those who oppose the messenger and become unbelievers will go to hell. 4:115
They (those who ascribe partners to Allah) invoke in his stead only females and pray to Satan. 4:117
Allah will lead them astray and they will go to hell. 4:119-121
Those who believe, then disbelieve, then believe and disbelieve again will never be forgiven by Allah. 4:137
For the hypocrites there will be a painful doom. 4:138
Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers into hell. 4:140
Allah will not allow disbelievers to succeed against believers. 4:141
Do not choose disbelievers as friends. 4:144
The hypocrites will be in the lowest part of hell and no one will help them there. 4:145
You must believe everything Allah and his messengers tell you. Those who don't are disbelievers and will face a painful doom. 4:150-151
For the wrongdoing Jews, Allah has prepared a painful doom. 4:160-1
God will guide disbelievers down a road that leads to everlasting hell. 4:168-169
Those who deny Islam will be losers in the Hereafter. 5:5
Disbelievers are the rightful owners of Hell. 5:10
Allah has cursed the Jews and hardened their hearts. Nearly all of them are treacherous. 5:12-13
Allah has stirred up enmity and hatred among Christians. 5:14
Christians are disbelievers for believing in the divinity of Christ. 5:17
Those who make war with Allah and his messenger will be killed or crucified, or have their hands and feet on alternate sides cut off, or will be expelled out of the land. That is how they will be treated in this world, and in the next they will have an awful doom. 5:33
Disbelievers will have a painful doom. 5:36
Disbelievers will want to come out of the Fire, but will not. Their will be a lasting doom. 5:37
Cut off the hands of thieves. It is an exemplary punishment from Allah. 5:38
Allah makes some people sin. He will not cleanse their hearts. They will have ignominy in this world, and in the Hereafter an awful doom. 5:41
Non-muslims are wrong doers. 5:45
Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them. 5:51
Jews and Christians are losers. 5:53
Allah could replace nonbelievers with believers who would love him and do whatever he says. 5:54
Your only friends should be Allah, Muhammad, and those who believe correctly (Muslims). 5:55
Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians. 5:57
Jews and Christians are evil-livers. 5:59
Evil is the handiwork of the rabbis and priests. 5:63
Allah has cast enmity and hatred among the Jews. 5:64
Allah does not guide disbelievers. 5:67
The Jews rejected and killed Allah's prophets, since "they were willfully blind and deaf." 5:70-71
Christians will be burned in the Fire. 5:72
Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 5:73
Muslims that make friends with disbelievers will face a doom prepared for them by Allah. 5:80
Disbelievers will be owners of hell-fire. 5:86
Allah will test believers to see if they are afraid. Those who fail a second test will suffer a painful doom. 5:94
After agreeing to send down a table of food from heaven, Jesus warns his disciples that will catch holy hell if they ever stop believing. 5:115
Those who deny the truth of Islam will be punished by Allah. 6:5
"See the nature of the consequence for the rejecters!" 6:11
"Those who ruin their souls will not believe." 6:12, 20
Disbelievers will say when they see the Fire that they would have believed if they had known the truth. But they are all liars. 6:27-28
Allah will torment those how deny his revelations. 6:49
Stay away from those who "meddle with" or mock the Quran. 6:68
Those who disbelieve will be forced to drink boiling water, and will face a painful doom. 6:70
When nonbelievers die, the angels will deliver to them doom and degradation. 6:93
Stay away from idolaters. 6:106
Allah confounds the hearts and eyes of unbelievers. 6:110
Most unbelievers are ignorant. 6:111
Allah allows some to disbelieve in the afterlife, and to take pleasure in their disbelief, so that he can torment them forever after they die. 6:113
The worst thing anyone can do is deny the revelations of Allah. Those who do so will be awared an evil doom. 6:157
Disbelievers lose their souls. 7:9
Allah has made devils the protecting friends of disbeliveers. 7:27
Disbelievers choose devils as protecting friends and believe they are rightly guided. 7:30
Only believers go to heaven. 7:32
Allah forbids beliefs that he hasn't revealed (i.e., all non-muslim beliefs). 7:33
Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire. 7:36
Disbelief is the greatest evil. 7:37
Disbelievers will be excluded from heaven. Theirs will be a bed of hell. 7:40-41
Those in the fire will be taunted by those in the Garden. "So how's it going down there? Are you enjoying the warmth of the Fire?" 7:44
Those in the Fire will cry out to those in heaven, saying: "Pour water on us." But Allah has forbidden that to disbelievers. 7:50
Those who forget Allah will be forgotten (sent to hell) on Judgement Day. 7:51
Serve Allah or go to hell. 7:59
Allah drowned everyone on earth (except Noah and his family) because they disbelieved. 7:64
Disbelievers are liars. 7:66
Those who believe incorrectly will face the terror and wrath of Allah. 7:71
"We cut the root of those who denied Our revelations and were not believers." 7:72
Allah killed the disbelievers with an earthquake. 7:78
Allah killed everyone in Sodom and Gomorrah except Lot and his daughters.
7:83-84
"So the earthquake seized them."
Allah killed the disbelievers with an earthquake. 7:90-91
"Then We seized them unawares, when they perceived not."
Unbelievers are never safe from Allah's wrath. 7:95-99
"How can I sorrow for a people that rejected (truth)?"
Shu'eyb tells the Allah's victims that they deserved to die for rejecting Islam. 7:93
"We drowned them in the sea: because they denied Our revelations." 7:136
Allah will destroy non-muslim cultures. 7:138-9
"Those who deny Our revelations and the meeting of the Hereafter, their works are fruitless." 7:147
Those who worship the calf will suffer terror and humiliation from Allah. 7:152
"Those who believe in him, and honour him, and help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him: they are the successful." 7:157
"But those of them who ... changed the word ... We sent down upon them wrath from heaven." 7:162
"When they forgot that whereof they had been reminded, We ... visited [them] with dreadful punishment." 7:165
Allah turns Jews into apes! 7:166
Allah will punish the disbelieving Jews until the Day of Resurrection. 7:167
Those who deny Muhammad's revelations are like dogs. 7:176
Those who deny Muhammad's revelation are evil. 7:177
Stay away from those who blaspheme Allah's names. They will be punished for it. 7:180
Allah leads astray those who deny his revelations. 7:182-3
"Allah ... cut the root of the disbelievers."
Allah destroyed the unbelievers. 8:7
Allah will throw fear into the hearts of the disbelievers, and smite their necks and fingers. 8:12
Disbelievers will be tormented in the Fire. 8:14
When you fight with disbelievers, do not retreat. Those who do will go to hell. 8:15-16
Those that the Muslims killed were not really killed by them. It was Allah who did the killing. 8:17
"The worst of beasts in Allah's sight are the deaf, the dumb, who have no sense [the non-muslims]." 8:22
Taste of the doom because ye disbelieve. 8:35
Those who disbelieve will be gathered into hell. 8:36
Fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah. 8:39
The angels smite the face and backs of disbelievers, saying: "Taste the punishment of burning!" 8:50
The worst beasts in Allah's sight are the disbelievers. 8:55
Don't let the disbelievers think they can escape. They are your enemy and the enemy of Allah. 8:59-60
Exhort the believers to fight. They will win easily, because disbelievers are without intelligence. 8:65
A prophet may not take captives until he has made a slaughter in the land. 8:67
Disbelievers cause confusion and "corruption in the land." 8:73
"Ye cannot escape Allah. Allah will confound the disbelievers." 9:2
Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to those who disbelieve. 9:3
Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. 9:5
Those who submit and convert to Islam will be treated well. (Those who don't submit will be killed. See previous verse.) 9:6
Don't make treaties with non-Muslims. They are all evildoers and should not be trusted. 9:7-9
Treat converts to Islam well. (Kill those who refuse to convert. See 9:5) 9:11
Fight the disbelievers! Allah is on your side; he will give you victory. 9:12-14
Don't let idolaters tend the sanctuaries. Their works are in vain and they will be burned in the Fire. 9:17
Don't make be friends with with your disbelieving family members. Those who do so are wrong-doers. 9:23
Allah punished those who disbelieved. 9:26
Only idolaters are unclean. Keep them away from your places of worship. 9:28
Fight against Christians and Jews "until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low." 9:29
Christians and Jews are perverse. Allah himself fights against them. 9:30
The "Religion of Truth" (Islam) must prevail, by force if necessary, over all other religions. 9:33
Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to the rich and greedy Christian monks and Jewish rabbis. 9:34
Allah does not guide the disbelievers. 9:37
Fight for Allah with your wealth and whatever weapons are available to you. 9:41
Those who refuse to fight for Allah (claiming they are unable) are liars who have destroyed their souls. 9:42
Disbelievers go to hell. 9:49
"Allah will afflict you with a doom from Him or at our hands." 9:52
Pay your contribution willingly. Allah will not accept a contribution from disbelievers or idlers. 9:53
Those who vex the Prophet, for them there is a painful doom. 9:60
Allah is only pleased by true believers. 9:62
Those who oppose Allah and His messenger will burn in the fire of hell. 9:63
Allah promises hypocrites and disbelievers the fire of hell. Allah curses them. They will have a lasting torment. 9:68
Fight the disbelievers and hypocrites. Be harsh with them. They are all going to hell anyway. 9:73
Allah will afflict disbelievers with a painful doom in this world and the Hereafter. 9:74
God will not forgive disbelievers, so don't ask. 9:80
Those who refuse to give their wealth and lives to Allah will face the fire of hell. 9:81-83
Don't pray for dead disbelievers or attend their funerals. 9:84
Those who refuse to fight for Allah will be treated (along with their children) as unbelievers. 9:85
For disbelievers there will be a painful doom. 9:90
Non-muslim who pretend to believe (so they won't be killed by Muslims) are unclean and will go to hell. 9:95
The unbelieving Arabs will be punished by Allah with an evil fortune. 9:97-98
"We shall chastise them twice; then they will be relegated to a painful doom." 9:101
Stay away from non-Muslims. They are all liars. 9:107
Those that ignore Allah will be thown into the fire of hell. 9:109
Believers must fight for Allah. They must kill and be killed , and are bound to do so by the Torah, Gospel, and Quran. But Allah will reward them for it. 9:111
Don't pray for idolaters (not even for your family) after it is clear they are people of hell-fire. 9:113
Abraham disowned his father for being an enemy of Allah. 9:114
Fight disbelievers who are near you, and let them see the harshness in you. 9:123
Disbelievers are wicked and have diseased hearts. 9:125
Allah turns away those who misunderstand him. 9:127
Disbelievers will have a boiling drink and a painful doom. 10:4
If you enjoy life and ignore Muhammad's bullshit, Allah will torture you forever in the Fire after you die. 10:7-8
Allah has destoyed entire generations. 10:13
Denying the revelations of Allah is the worst sin imaginable. 10:17
"Ignominy overtaketh them - They have no protector from Allah - as if their faces had been covered with a cloak of darkest night. Such are rightful owners of the Fire." 10:27
On the last day Allah will kill all the disbelievers (and then he will torture them forever in hell). 10:45
Those who disbelieved will face a dreadful doom. 10:70
Allah drowned those who disbelieved his revelations. 10:73
Moses asked Allah to harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they would not believe until they saw the painful doom. 10:88
If you deny the revelations of Allah, you will be among the losers and will "see the painful doom." 10:95-97
Disbelievers will end up in the Fire. 11:17
Those who oppose Islam and disbelieve in the Hereafter are guilty of the greatest wrong. 11:18-19
Allah sent a lasting doom on those who mocked Noah. 11:39
Those who drowned in the flood were disbelievers. 11:42
Allah will send a painful doom on several nations. 11:48
Disbelievers are the rightful owners of the Fire 13:5
Allah does not hear the prayer of disbelievers. 13:14
Those who do not answer Allah's call will go to hell. 13:18
Allah leads disbelievers astry while he torments them in this life. Then afterh they die, he makes them uffer even more pain in the doom of the Hereafter. 13:33-34
The reward for disbelievers is the Fire. 13:35
Woe unto the disbelievers. Theirs will be an awful doom. 14:2
"Lo! for wrong-doers is a painful doom." 14:22
"They set up rivals to Allah that they may mislead (men) from His way. Say: Enjoy life (while ye may) for lo! your journey's end will be the Fire." 14:30
Let the disbelievers enjoy life and let false hope beguile them. They will come to know! 15:2-3
"The disbelievers would not be tolerated." 15:8
Iblis will lead humans astray. Only perfect Muslims will be safe from him. The rest will go to hell. 15:39-43
Those who don't believe in the Hereafter are proud. 16:22
Allah made a roof fall in to kill unbelievers. "And the doom came on them whence they knew not." 16:26
Disbelievers are evil and will dwell in hell forever. 16:27-29
Disbelievers are liars. 16:39
Theirs will be the Fire, and they will be abandoned." 16:62
"Theirs will be a painful doom." 16:63
Allah will add doom to doom for those who disbelieve. 16:88
Those who oppose Islam will face an awful doom. 16:94
Those who loose their faith in Islam will face an awful doom. Allah's wrath is upon them. 16:106
Those who invent lies against Allah will have a painful doom. 16:116-7
Allah made hell to be a dungeon for disbelievers. 17:8
Allah has prepared a painful doom for those who disbelieve in the Hereafter. 17:10
Allah destroyed entire towns. 17:16
How many generations Allah has destroyed since Noah! 17:17
Allah intends to burn people in hell. 17:18
"Set not up with Allah any other god, lest thou be cast into hell." 17:39
Allah makes it so that unbelievers cannot understand. 17:45-46
Allah will send disbelievers astray. Then he'll burn them in hell, increasing the flames from time to time. 17:97-98
"He maketh none to share in His government."
Democracy is heresy. Allah shares his government with no one. 18:26
Allah has prepared a Fire for the disbelievers. When they want a shower, Allah will give them a shower of molten lead to burn their faces. 18:29
Christians will cry out to Allah's "partners", but they won't hear them; Allah will send them to their doom. 18:52
The worst wrong is to forget Allah's revelations. Allah covers their hearts and makes them deaf so that they will never believe the truth. 18:57
On a certain day, Allah will present hell, in plain view, to the disbelievers. 18:100
Allah will welcome the disbelievers into hell. 18:102
The good works of disbelievers are all in vain. They will go to hell anyway. 18:104-105
Hell is the reward for disbelievers because they made a jest of Allah's revelations and messengers. 18:106
"Woe unto the disbelievers from the meeting of an awful Day."
Jesus was not the Son of God. Those who say he was (Christians) are going to hell. 19:35-37
Allah will pluck out from every sect those who should burn in hell. 19:69-70
Allah will prolong the lives of non-believers so they can see their punishment, either in this world or in the Hour of doom. 19:75
Allah will record what disbelievers say and then prolong their torment. 19:77-79
Allah has sent the devils on the disbelievers to confuse them. 19:83
Allah will "drive the guilty unto hell, a weary herd." 19:86
Lo! it hath been revealed unto us that the doom will be for him who denieth and turneth away." 20:48
Those who do not believe Allah's revelations will face doom in the Hereafter. 20:127
Allah destroyed entire towns, yet the people still disbelieved. 21:6
"And one of them who should say: Lo! I am a god beside Him, that one We should repay with hell." 21:29
Disbelievers will not be able to put out the fire on their faces and backs. They will be stupefied and no one will help them. 21:39-40
The disbelievers will stare in terror at what Allah has in store for them. 21:97-99
Those who turn from the way of Allah will face ignominy in this world and burning in the next. 22:9
Whoever thinks that Allah will not give Muhammad victory should go hang himself. 22:15
Disbelievers will wear garments of fire, boiling fluid will be poured on their heads, their bellies and skin will be melted, they will be tormented with iron hooks, and when they try to escape they will be driven back with the taunt: Taste the doom of burning. 22:19-22
Allah will provide the disbelievers with a painful doom. 22:25
Those who disregard Allah's revelations are the owners of the Fire. 22:51
"Those who disbelieve will not cease to be in doubt thereof until the Hour come upon them unawares, or there come unto them the doom of a disastrous day." 22:55
Those who disbelieve Allah's revelations will have a shameful doom. 22:57
Those who disbelieve Allah's revelations will burn in the Fire. 22:72
Those who don't believe in the Hereafter will receive extreme punishment from Allah. 23:74-77
Disbelievers will not be successful. 23:117
Those who traduce virtuous, believing women ... cursed are they in the world and the Hereafter. Theirs will be an awful doom." 24:23
Disbelievers are miscreants. 24:55
Disbelievers will never escape the Fire that will be their home. 24:57
The only true believers are those who believe in Allah and his messenger. 24:62
Those who deny the coming of the Hour will be chained together and burned with fire. They will pray for their own destruction. 25:11-13
It will be a hard day for disbelievers and wrong-doers. They will gnaw on their hands and wish they had chosen Islam. 25:26-27
Those who deny Muhammad's revelations will be destroyed. 25:36
Allah drowned everyone in the flood of Noah, and has prepared a painful doom for evil-doers. 25:37
"They [the non-muslims] will know, when they behold the doom, who is more astray as to the road." 25:42
Don't obey disbelievers. But rather fight against them. 25:52
Those who cry out to another god with Allah will be tormented doubly in hell. 25:68-69
Many will not believe until they see the painful doom. 26:201
Those who believe in another god are doomed. 26:213
Stay away from poets. The erring follow them. 26:224
Allah leads those who do not believe in the Hereafter astray by making things work out OK in this life, so that he can torment them forever in the next. They will get the worst punishment and will be the greatest losers. 27:4-5
But he "saved those who believed." 27:53
Allah will taunt Christians on the day of their doom, saying: Where are My partners whom ye imagined? 28:62-64
Never help disbelievers. 28:86
Those who disbelieve in the revelations of Allah have no hope of mercy. For such there is a painful doom. 29:23
"Ye have chosen only idols instead of Allah ... on the Day of Resurrection ye will deny each other and curse each other, and your abode will be the Fire, and ye will have no helpers." 29:25
Only wrong-doers deny the revelations of Allah. 29:49
Those who disbelieve in the revelations of Allah are the losers. 29:52
The doom of hell will come upon disbelievers suddenly, when they least expect it. 29:53-55
The worst thing you can do is tell a lie about Allah. Hell is the home of disbelievers. 29:68
When the Hour comes, Christians will be divided into two groups: Those who believed Allah's revelations, and those who disbelieved in them. The believers will be happy in the Garden; the disbelievers will be brought to doom. 30:13-16
Allah does not love disbelievers. 30:45
Allah seals the heart of disbelievers. (And then he burns them in the Fire.) 30:59
Those who mislead others from Allah's way and mock Islam will have a painful doom. 31:6-7
Allah will give disbelievers a little comfort for a little while, and then he'll torment them forever with a heavy doom. 31:23-24
Allah will fill hell with the jinn and mankind together. 32:13
Allah: Taste the doom of immortality because of what ye used to do. 32:14
Those who used to deny the Fire will be tormented in it forever. 32:20
The worst thing you can do is to deny the revelations of Allah. 32:22
Don't obey disbelievers. 33:1
He hath prepared a painful doom for the unfaithful." 33:8
Allah makes the deeds of unbelievers fruitless. 33:19
Allah cast panic into the hearts of the disbelievers. He killed some, and enslaved others. 33:25-26
Ignore disbelievers and their poisonous talk. 33:48
Those who malign Allah, Muhammad, and Muslims will be cursed by Allah in this life and with doom in the Hereafter. 33:57
Those who oppose Islam will be slain with a fierce slaughter. 33:60-61
Allah has cursed the disbelievers, and has prepared for them a flaming fire, wherein they will abide forever. 33:64-65
The disbelievers will be burned in the Fire with a double torment. 33:66-68
Those who challenge the revelations of Muhammad will have a painful doom. 34:5
"They are filled with remorse when they behold the doom; and We place carcans on the necks of those who disbelieved." 34:33
Those who disbelieve in the Hereafter will be tormented. 34:8
Those who strive against Allah's revelations will be brought to the doom. 34:38
Allah hates those who ignore his messengers. 34:45
Those who ignore Allah's messenger (Muhammed) will face a terrific doom. 34:46
Those who are cast into hell be terrified when they see that they have no escape. Then they will believe. But it will be too late. 34:51-52
Those who disbelieve will have an awful doom. 35:7
Allah hates disbelievers. 35:26
Disbelievers will burn forever in the fire of hell. Allah will keep them alive so that he can torture them forever. When they repent and ask for mercy, he will ignore them. 35:36-7
He who disbelieves, his disbelief be on his own head. 35:39
Allah has blinded the disbelievers so that they cannot see the truth. So it don't bother warning them. They will go to hell anyway. 36:8-10
Allah will burn the disbelievers in hell. 36:63-4
Those who refuse to believe in Muhammad's revelations will face a painful doom. 37:31-38
If you're not favored by Allah, you're doomed. 37:57
Allah drowned everyone except Noah and his family in the flood. 37:82
Only the "single-minded slaves of Allah" will be saved from the doom. 37:127-8
Allah killed everyone in Sodom except for Lot and his family. 37:136
No one is against Allah, except those who burn in hell. 37:162-3
Just wait a while and watch. The unbelievers will soon be destroyed in the doom. 37:176-9
Those who disbelieve are in false pride and schism. 38:2
Allah has destroyed many generations. 38:3
Those who doubt will soon taste Allah's doom. 38:8
Those who deny the messengers deserve doom. 38:14
Those who wander from the way of Allah will have an awful doom. 38:26
Those who disbelieve will burn in the Fire. 38:27
Tell the disbelievers to enjoy themselves now, because later they will be owners of the Fire. 39:8
Those who disobey Allah should fear his doom. 39:13
No one will be able to help those that Allah torments in the Fire. 39:19
Woe unto those who forget Allah. They are in plain error. 39:22
The doom will come upon those who deny what Allah has revealed. 39:25
Allah will make non-believers "taste humiliation in the life of the world" and " the doom of the Hereafter" which will be even worse. 39:26
The worst thing you can do is tell a lie against Allah. The home of disbelievers is hell. 39:32
Surrender to Allah before he sends the doom upon you suddenly. 39:54-55
Disbelievers had their chance to believe. They will all suffer in an endless doom. 39:56-59
Those who lie about Allah will be sent to hell and will have their faces blackened. 39:60
Losers are those who disbelieve the revelations of Allah. 39:63
Those ascribe a partner to Allah (like the Christians) will be among the losers. 39:65
Those who disbelieve will be driven into hell. 39:71-72
Those who disbelieve are the owners of the Fire. 40:6
Allah greatly abhors those who disbelieve. 40:10
Those who ignore Allah's "clear proofs" will be seized and punished severely. 40:22
Those in hell will beg to be relieved from the Fire's torment for just a day. But the prayer of a disbeliever is in vain. 40:49-50
Those who bicker about Allah's revelations are filled with pride. 40:56
Those who scorn Allah will go to hell. 40:60
Those who deny the revelations of Allah are perverted. 40:63
Those who deny the Scripture and Allah's messengers will be dragged through boiling water and thrust into the Fire. 40:70-72
Allah will taunt the Christians in hell, saying: Where are all my parnters that you used to believe in? 40:73
Thus does Allah send astray the disbelievers (in his guidance). 40:74
Those who scorn will go to hell. 40:76
When they see Allah's doom they will believe in Allah. But their faith will not save them. The disbelievers will be ruined. 40:84-85
Woe unto the idolaters who disbelieve in the Hereafter. 41:6
The enemies of Allah will be gathered into the Fire where their skin, ears, and eyes will testify against them. 41:19-20
Non-muslims will be tormented forever in the Fire. Allah will not have any mercy on them. 41:24
Allah will make those who disbelieve taste an awful doom. Their immortal home will be the Fire, since they denied Allah's revelations. 41:27-28
"Lo! those who distort Our revelations are not hid from Us. Is he who is hurled into the Fire better?" 41:40
Those who disbelieve will taste hard punishment. 41:50
In whatsoever ye differ, the verdict therein belongeth to Allah."
Disputes, whether religious or political, must be decided by Allah. Democracy is not an option. 42:10
Those who argue about Allah will have his wrath upon them. Theirs will be an awful doom. 42:16
"And as for disbelievers, theirs will be an awful doom." 42:26
Allah sends some people astray and then punishes them for it by burning them in the Fire. 42:44-46
Those who turn people away from Islam will "be sharers in the doom." 43:37-39
"But they will come to know."
Allah will torment disbelievers forever in hell. 43:88-89
Those in torment will claim to believe and ask Allah for relief. But he will refuse since they will return to their disbelief. 44:11-16
"He hath saved them [Muslims] from the doom of hell."
(Everyone else is going to hell.) 44:56
Those who hear and reject Allah's revelations are sinful liars. Give them tidings of a painful doom. 45:7-8
Those who joke about Allah's revelations will go to hell. Theirs will be a shameful doom. 45:9-10
Those who disbelieve in Allah's revelations will have a awful doom of wrath. 45:11
Those who disbelieve are guilty folk. 45:31
Disbelievers will be rewarded with the ignominious doom of the Fire. 46:20
Serve only Allah or face the doom of a tremendous day. 46:21
If you believe Muhammed, Allah will forgive some of your sins and protect you from the painful doom (that he plans to torture everyone else with). 46:31
Allah will taunt the disbelievers that he torments in the fire, saying: "Taste the doom for that ye disbelieved." 46:34
Allah makes the works of disbelievers vain. 47:1
Those who disbelieve follow falsehood. 47:3
Smite the necks of the disbelievers whenever you fight against them. Those who die fighting for Allah will be rewarded. 47:4
Allah will damn the disbelievers and make all their actions fruitless. 47:8-9
Disbelievers may eat and be happy now, but the Fire will be their final home. 47:12
Those who turn away from Islam, and obey non-Muslims in some things, have been seduced by Satan. 47:25-26
Angels will gather them together and smite their faces and backs. 47:27
Allah will make the actions those who disbelieve fruitless. 47:32
Those who disbelieve will never be pardoned by Allah. 47:34-35
Those who think an evil thought concerning Allah will be cursed and sent to hell by him. 48:6
Allah has prepared a flame for the disbelievers. 48:13
If you refuse to fight for Allah, he will punish you with a painful doom. 48:16
"Whoso turneth back, him will He punish with a painful doom." 48:17
Allah punished those who disbelieved with a painful punishment. 48:25
Allah will "cause it [Islam] to prevail over all religion." 48:28
Those with Muhammad are ruthless toward disbelievers and merciful toward themselves. 48:29
Allah will hurl those who believe in another god into a dreadful doom. 50:26
Accursed are the conjecturers who ask: When is the Day of Judgment? It is the day they will be tormented by the Fire. 51:10-14
"We left behind therein a portent for those who fear a painful doom." 51:37
Woe to the disbelievers. 51:60
Those who deny the existence of hell will be thrust into its Fire. 52:11-16
"Their Lord hath warded off from them the torment of hell-fire."
(Everyone else is going to hell -- and the believers are all okay with that.) 52:18
Those who disbelieve are trapped. 52:42
Those who disbelieve in the afterlife give female names to angels. 53:27
Those who disbelieve in the afterlife are only guessing and have no real knowledge. 53:29
Stay away from non-Muslims, especially those who disbelieve in the afterlife. 53:29
Allah sent a storm of stones on Lot's folk, killing all but Lot's family. 54:34
The guilty deny hell. But after they die they go circling between it and fierce, boiling water. 55:43-44
Those who deny Allah and the Hereafter will eat from the Zaqqum tree and drink boiling water. 56:51-54
Allah will welcome the rejecters and erring with boiling water and a roasting in the hell fire. 56:92-94
Those who disbelieve or doubt the revelations of Allah will be face the doom. 57:13-14
The home of disbelievers is the Fire, a hapless journey's end. 57:15
Those who disbelieve and deny Allah's revelations are the owners of the fire. 57:19
For disbelievers is a painful doom. 58:4
For disbelievers is a shameful doom. 58:5
Those who disobey Muhammed will go to hell. 58:8
Don't make friends with Allah's enemies. For those who do so, Allah has prepared a dreadful doom. 58:14-15
Those who turn others away from the way of Allah will have a shameful doom. They are rightful owners of the Fire. 58:16-17
Those who oppose Allah and His Messenger will be among the lowest. 58:20
On the Last Day good Muslims will not love their non-Muslim friends and family members, not even their fathers, sons, or brothers (or their mothers, daughters, or sisters). 58:22
Allah cast fear into the hearts of the disbelieving People of the Scripture. Their home in the Hereafter will be the Fire. 59:2-3
"Whatsoever the messenger giveth you, take it. And whatsoever he forbiddeth, abstain (from it)."
Do whatever Muhammad tells you to do. (Or you'll go to hell.) 59:7
The disbelieving people of the Scripture are liars. 59:11
The disbelievers fear the believers more than Allah. 59:13
The devil and disbelievers will be in the Fire. 59:16-17
The owners of the Garden and the owners of the Fire are not equal. 59:20
Don't be friends with disbelievers. They are your (and Allah's) enemy. 60:1
Don't be friends with those who have warred against you because of religion. Whoever makes friends with them is a wrong-doer. 60:9
Don't be friends with those who disbelieve in the Hereafter. They are Allah's enemies. 60:13
The worst thing you can do is tell a lie about Allah. 61:7
Allah gave Muhammad the one true religion and sent him to conquer all other (false) religions. 61:9
"O ye who believe! Shall I show you a commerce that will save you from a painful doom?" 61:10
A hypocritical Jew looks like an ass carrying books. Those who deny the revelations of Allah are ugly. 62:5
Allah seals the hearts of those who believe and then disbelieve so that they can understand nothing. 63:3
Disbelievers are perverted. They are the enemy, confounded by Allah. 63:4
Don't bother to ask Allah to forgive the disbelievers. He will never forgive them. 63:6
"Might belongeth to Allah and to His messenger and to the believers." 63:8
Those who disbelieve will have a painful doom. 64:5
Those who disbelieve are the owners of the Fire. 64:10
Be stern with disbelievers. They are going to Hell anyway. 66:9
Disbelievers will go to hell where they will hear its roaring and boiling. 67:6-7
Who will protect the disbelievers from a painful doom? (Nobody) 67:28
Refuse to obey the "rejecters" (Non-Muslims?) who seek compromise 68:8-9
Those who consider the Quran to be "mere fables" will be branded on the nose.68:15-16
"Shall We then treat those who have surrendered (Muslims) as We treat the guilty (Non-Muslims)?" 68:35
Those who do not believe in Allah will be chained up and cast into hell-fire where they will eat filth. 69:30-35
Doom is about to fall on all disbelievers. Only worshippers (Muslims) and those who preserve their chastity (except with their wives and slave girls) will be spared from "the fires of hell" that are "eagar to roast." 70:1-30
"Lo! the doom of their Lord is that before which none can feel secure" (except for maybe those who are fearful of it). 70:27-28
Disbelievers will enter hell with frantic with fear, knowing they will be tortured forever by Allah. 70:36, 44
Allah sent Noah to warn people about the painful doom he was planning to send. (It didn't work out well; Allah sent it anyway.) 71:1
Noah asked Allah to drown all the disbelievers. 71:26
The fires of hell will be fueled with the bodies of idolators and unbelievers. They will experience an ever-greater torment. 72:15-17
Those who disobey Allah and his messenger will dwell forever in the fire of hell. 72:23
Allah will take care of the deniers. He will tie them up, burn them in a raging fire, and feed them food that chokes them. 73:11-13
The last day will be a day of anguish for disbelievers. 74:9-10
Those who are stubborn to Allah's revelations will face a fearful doom. 74:16-17
Allah has appointed angels to tend the Fire and has prepared stumbling blocks for those who disbelieve. He sends some people (whoever he wants) astray. 74:31
Those who pay attention to this life and ignore the Hereafter will suffer forever in hell. 75:20-29
Allah has prepared chains, manacles, and a raging fire for the disbelievers. 76:4
Don't obey disbelievers. 76:24
Woe unto the repudiators on that day! 77:19, 77:24, 77:28, 77:34, 77:40, 77:45, 77:49
Depart unto that doom which ye used to deny." 77:29
Those who deny the revelations given to Muhammed will burn forever in hell. 78:21-30
"Lo! We warn you of a doom at hand, a day whereon a man will look on that which his own hands have sent before, and the disbeliever will cry: 'Would that I were dust!'" 78:40
Those who rebel by choosing this life over the next will go to hell. 79:37-39
Disbelievers are wicked people. On the last day they will be in darkness and have dust on their faces. 80:40-42
Those who reject Allah's revelations will burn in hell. 83:10-17
The disbelievers used to laugh at the believers. But the final laugh will be on them. 83:29-36
Disbelievers will be given a painful doom. 84:22-24
Those who persecute Muslims, without repenting, will burn in hell. 85:10
Allah plots against non-Muslims. 86:16
"Deal gently with them (non-Muslims) for a while. (How long is "a while"?) 86:17
Allah will punish disbelievers with the direst punishment. 88:23-24
Allah poured the disaster of His punishment upon those who rebelled against him. 89:11-13
Those who disbelieve Allah's revelations will have the Fire placed over them like an awning. 90:19-20
Those who deny Allah's revelations must endure the flaming fire. 92:14-16
Allah created humans to be "of best stature" but then reduced them "to the lowest of the low". Except for "those who believe and do good works." But what about those who don't believe but do good works? Are they the "lowest of the low"? 95:4-6
Allah will grab those who deny His guidance by the forelock and call the guards of hell. 96:13-18
Those who disbelieve will abide in the fire of hell. They are the worst of created beings. 98:6
Only religious people help orphans or those in need. 107:1-3
"I seek refuge ... from the evil of malignant witchcraft."
(Witchcraft is evil.) 113:4

This is what Islam mandates. Do not practice shirk. You, of course, can practice taquiyya, but most of us can detect that pretty quickly. I don't expect you to respond, no apologist for Islam ever comments on the crimes of the Qur'an, aHadith or Sira. I do urge you to read the Qur'an, as most apostates of Islam ironically realize what a fraud Islam is after reading it.

Marisol said to Alia:

So, Alia, I have my own questions for you:
1. Do you repudiate the death penalty for apostasy?
2. Do you repudiate the notion that a man has any right to strike a woman? For any reason? Ever?
3. Do you repudiate flogging and stoning for adultery?
4. Do you repudiate the jizya tax?
4a. Do you know what the jizya tax is?
5. Do you repudiate the subjugation of non-Muslims and do you repudiate their second-class status under Islamic law?

Yes or no? It shouldn't take you long.

As has been pointed out, Alia is perhaps afraid to answer these questions, because they are simple yes-or-no questions, which would reveal what she is really about.

Alia, go back and educate yourself about true islam.Watch some fair and balanced news, you can begin with current events in Egypt.Focus on "Copts".When you come to terms with that(and thats just the tip of the iceberg) start reading about misunderstood islamists HERE,and THEN worry about Jesus.

Alia,
Puleasseee.ask your husband if you can leave the cave to watch some fair and balanced news.Start looking at current events in Egypt(Copts). Then chirp on about Jesus and His teachings and his "good side." HOW DARE YOU. I take offense at the fact that you are not Christian,yet you know Jesus. I know Mohammed is not a god but lady, you better get a real clear honest view of what thats all about. And I want to see you answer those questions too. When you are done studying international news move on to current events here and see all the good mohammed and his"unbrainwashed" followers are doing.WE DONT WANT THEM HERE!!!!!!!!!!Ask your husband why you have been kept away from enlightenment and true learning,ask him why you all cant assimilate.Ask him what he thinks of Sharia law.I already know what his answers are. Also research Peter King. You want to help lady?? OPEN YOUR EYES TO THE TRUTH.

Alia must be praying, or washing her feet, or something. Not a peep. How very typical, how very telling...

Yes, Jan...v. typical. I have never known a Muslim last the course in debate. It's the usual story - key questions go unanswered, the evidence of quotations from the Koran and the Hadith are ignored, increasingly wild and unsubstantiated claims are made, irrelevant tu quoque arguments are thrown out as though they somehow aid Islam's case (they don't)...eventually - perhaps out of embarrassment at putting up such a poor show on behalf of their so-called Prophet or perhaps out of fear that they are entering on blasphemous territory (by denying things that are clearly there in the sacred scriptures) - silence ensues.

It would seem Alia like all the rest has fallen silent.

Alia's posting sounds more like a spike(Arnaud De Borchgrave book The Spike) I don't beleive Alia is a women.Thats why there is such ignorance to the plight that women of islam face. I could see it as 17-22 yr olds playing on the computer just to get a reaction.

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