New imam of Islamic supremacist mega-mosque at Ground Zero: "Apostates against Islam must be jailed"

He misses the point. there should be no punishment for leaving any religion.

How long before we get a conflicting report saying that Adhami was misquoted, and that he really ment.

'they should be jailed untill they are killed'.

The day after the mosque is built i would say.

"The only thing you do not have the right to do is to spread this conviction"
Who are you to talk about our rights? Keep your head down, you're following Muhammad, don't you forget it. The only founder of a cult who was himself a ruler, conqueror, enslaver, bandit, murderer, rapist, polygamist, pedophile and self-proclaimed prophet.
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2010/12/perfect-man-of-islam.html

New imam of Islamic supremacist mega-mosque at Ground Zero: "Apostates against Islam must be jailed"
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Why, look! He doesn't demand they be summarily executed, therefore he is a "moderate". sarc/off

More:

"If someone leaves the din [religion], leaves the path privately, they cannot be touched. If someone preaches about apostasy, or preaches their views, they're jailed," stated Imam Abdallah Adhami in a November lecture obtained and reviewed by WND.
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Once again, this means something different in Islam than it does in the West. For a Westerner, the idea of keeping something "private" would mean keeping it low-key. By Islamic lights, it means not *indicating it at all*, to anyone. "Public" apostasy wouldn't just refer to someone who goes on a campaign to preach their views—it would apply to anyone who made such views known at all, by, say, refraining from attending the mosque, or by beginning to attend a church.

In other words, apostasy is only "private" if the apostate *pretends to continue to be Muslim*.

Of course, this oppression of apostates would be appalling enough in any case—but once again, Islam prefers deceit over any kind of honesty or expression of conscience.

More:

He claimed Islam was "revolutionary" for purportedly only punishing those who preach apostasy publicly, as opposed to other religions, which, he claimed, punish both public and private apostates.
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This is absolute crap for two obvious reasons. Firstly, Jews, or Christians, or members of any other faith, are no more mind-readers than are Muslims. By these standards, *no one* could punish "private" apostasy.

Secondly—as if it even needs to be mentioned—*no other faith* today punishes for apostasy beyond shunning—and most of the major faiths don't do that, either—at least not in any formal sense.

Once again, Muslims claim that Islam is "more enlightened" than other faiths, when the truth is that it is the *only one* that still practicing such barbarities.

This is what Muslims mean by 'no compulsion in religion'! I'm surprised by how honest about sharia this high-profile, "interfaith-dialogue"-loving imam is, even though he does water it down somewhat.

I linked this article on another thread not long ago, but it's relevant to this article too - here you can read the undiluted 'reasoning' of a Salafi with regards to apostates:

http://www.call-to-monotheism.com/of_course_apostates_should_be_killed

There is no such thing as "moderate" islam never has been never will be. There is only weak islam and strong islam. In other words they will taqiyya their way along by saying things like "jail" instead of "kill" until they get strong enough to say what they really mean and they really do mean kill. Anyone who thinks there is moderate or considerate islam is a fool. They read and follow the koran. More people in the West need to read AND UNDERSTAND the bloody book.

The fact that Islam calls converts 'reverts' because everyone was originally Muslim, it claims, anyone who hasn't yet reverted is, by default, an apostate.

And as apostates, they are in Islam's crosshairs.

(It takes a while to cotton on to Islam's twisted logic, but once you get the hang of it, statements like Adhami's can be unraveled.)

Gee, I kinda' miss Feisal and Daisy. They were so transparently despicable. But I want to give this guy a chance to come up to speed.
Hopefully he'll be as big a fool as they were proven to be. Talk about a tough act to follow, though...

Muslims always spew out gobbledygook like this imam does so as to confuse the Westerners!! They say one thing and mean some thing else!!! They say there is no punishment for leaving Islam and and there is no compulsion in religion but then proceed to kill those who leave so as to keep others in line who may want to leave. These taqiyya totes can never ever be trusted. Period!!!

http://schnellmann.org/death_for_apostasy.html
4:89 Death for Apostasy

"Muhammad, the prophet of Islam and supreme example of conduct for the Muslim (cf. Qur'an 33:21), said: "Whoever changes his Islamic religion, then kill him." (Bukhari 9.84.57)"

muhammad was perfect, alright - he was PERFECTLY *EVIL*! ...and so is islam & company. That verse in the creep'on sums it up nicely, so do the habitual actions of murderous muslims.

The qur'an is nothing more than a MANUAL-4-MURDER, inspired by a homicidal maniac!!!!!!!!!

I watched the video of his lecture. He is consummately Western in education and upbringing, and it doesn't make a darn bit of difference as to his views.

All it does is inform his presentations/lectures/sermons that he must leave the impression with Western audiences that death for apostasy might not be received so well.

Seriously, if he went to any other mosque in a Muslim country and said that very thing, he'd be shown the door.

Here's more on the new Ground Zero imam Abdullah Adhami—he refers to Siraj Wahhaj as his "beloved imam." He helped design Wajhhaj's Masjid Al-Taqwa in Brooklyn, New York.

"I feel that I am with you as I feel that I am with every Muslim, and we should exert ourselves—like our beloved imam [Siraj Wahhaj] said, to inspire this affinity for one another, because nothing can be more crucial a message to the ummah at anytime in its history—but particularly now."

He also said this:

"Siraj Wahhaj is the voice of the spirit of Islam in America and its pride."

Why is this important?

Siraj Wahhaj *is an unindicted co-conspirator in original 1993 World Trade Center bombing*.

Siraj Wahhaj has also defended convicted bomb-plotters and called the FBI and CIA the "real terrorists."

Wahhaj has also said this:

"In time, this so-called democracy will crumble, and there will be nothing, and the only thing that will remain will be Islam."

And this:

"If only Muslims were clever politically, they could take over the United States and replace its constitutional government with a caliphate."

And this:

"…And [Allah] declared 'Whoever is at war with my friends, I declare war on them.' ... Your true friend is Allah, the messenger, and those who believe.... Hear what I'm telling you well. The Americans are not your friends ... The Canadians are not your friends ... The Europeans are not your friends. Your friend is Allah, the Messenger and those who believe. These people will never be satisfied with you until you follow their religion ..."

Grotesque projection. The West is not forcing anyone to convert to Judaism or Christianity. If only I could say the same for many Muslims' treatment of Infidels in Dar-al-Islam.

More:

“If we were united and strong,” Wahhaj said, “we'd elect our own emir and give allegiance to him.... Take my word, if 6-8 million Muslims unite in America, the country will come to us.”

Moreover, he predicted that America would fall unless it "accepts the Islamic agenda."

Despite all of this, Wahhaj was able to pass himself off to hopeful and credulous Infidels as a "moderate" for a long time—he was the first Muslim ever to recite an opening prayer before a meeting of the U.S. House of Representatives-that was *just two years* before he was involved with the first Muslim attempt to bring down the Twin Towers.

Of course, it was the barbaric downing of those towers on 9/11 that would eventually lead to the push for the Ground Zero mosque as a fitting Islamic monument to this act of savagery.

[Thanks to Pamela Geller for this information]

http://mtmotorstables.blogspot.com/2011/01/ground-zero-mosquestrosity-new-imam.html

I'm appalled by the Republican's continuous cowardice silence by Islam's arrogance in the US/West- they should have come out with major news statement to condemm this vile Muslim imam and the obviously equally vile GROUND ZERO MOSQUE! Are they already admitting defeat for 2012 - and going to let that most dangerous suspected Islamic Trojan Horse Hussein Obama get his way every time, including when he support the conquest of the evil GROUND ZERO MOSQUE proposal; worshipping Islam and its false Islamic god, as created by the Arabic Pedophile rapist, robber, slave-owner (including sexual slaves such as young Jewish captive girls) and mass murderer of the Jews, Mohammed? And such conquest is over the 3,000 MASS MURDERED of mostly non-Muslims and Americans under Islam!

maybe that 'young turk' can do an interview on MSNBC...

a nationally televised circle jerk would be interesting..

Do you think it's possible that King only wants Muslims subpoenaed so he can ask them the questions we don't seem to be able to get answers to?

I'm just hopeful here. No kufr answers to blow off. These people would have to answer truthfully and if they don't King could charge them with contempt.

Someone should email this nasty speech to Joy Behar, Whoppi, Rachel Maddow and the Huff Ho gang. Wonder how they would spin it to fit their vile agenda.

I have never ever heard of ANY other religion murdering or jailing apostates.

Deception, and death. The two D's of Islam.

You Tube;

Large LTTE ship full of munitions being hit & sunk 28-02-200

and you will find the following interesting posts supposedly from a US based muslim;

Along with being more efficient there is about a hair over a billion Muslims vs 300 million Americans, but I don't see many Americans infiltrating Muslim communities and changing those communities rules to suite them better - can't say that about us however - HAHA! You've even allowed us to build a Victory Mosque commemorating the 9/11 attacks. Now I think about it I guess you could say I'm proud of my (adopted) country as well, proud indeed. God bless America!

fuwad84 3 hours ago
@proudofmycountry1989

Hmmm lets examine that for a second. Lets see took 17 of our guys the cost of plane tickets to kill 3000 Americans where as it's taken you guys about 150,000-250,00 soldiers deployed to inflict a million dead Muslims. Now number wise that sounds pretty bad for us but when you look at both personal to kill ratio and sheer number populations that previous figure gets flipped on its head. 17 Muslims to kill 3000 Americans, why that's 176 dead vs 5 kills per US solider.

fuwad84 3 hours ago

Could be a wind up but I don't think so. Nice people.

Datum relevant to my 4:10 post above:

Percentage of honor killings done by Muslims

According to the article "Worldwide Trends in Honor Killings," published in the Middle East Forum, Muslims do 91 percent of honor killings worldwide and 96 percent of honor killings in Europe. If you click on the above link, those percentages can be found five paragraphs below the heading "Methodology."

The Koran... it's a Cookbook, I tell you! A Cooookbooook!

For the human soul.

Interesting, is it not, that for them ‘freedom of religion’ takes on a completely different meaning:

For them, freedom of religion means the freedom to kill unbelievers, apostates, adulterous wives, homosexuals and even their own children ‘if they fear rebellion’.

For them, freedom of religion means the freedom to strike terror in the hearts of the unbelievers, to kill in order to spread the religion, the right to child-marriage, polygamy, female genital mutilation and the freedom to lie and deceive the unbelievers.

Freedom of religion means a whole lot of different things to them, like sedition, subversion, infiltration, to bring our miserable house down and to replace our law with the perverse despotism of Muhammad, profit of Islam.

Freedom of religion also includes the (public) stoning of women, head-chopping, cutting off arms and legs on opposite ends etc etc.

Their freedom of religion means enslaving us all, terrorizing us in the name of Allah, abandonment of reason and all power to the Mullah’s.

All of the above amounts to high treason against humanity and to any civilized society.

In light of the above, one of my favorite Churchill quotes comes to mind:

“It is the primary right of men to die and kill for the land they live in, and to punish with exceptional severity all members of their own race who have warmed their hands at the invader’s hearth.” (Winston Churchill)

Who would be more deserving to hang next to those who are determined to destroy us with our own laws?

Bhobby,

"Gravenimage quotes from a Siraj Wahhaj saying to his fellow Muslims "Europeans are not your friends . .. these people will never be satisfied with you until you follow their religion." I've heard this formulation before from a few Muslims and I'm thinking it might be the standard way for a Muslim to formulate this."

I think you are correct. I've also read or heard this line many times from Muslims, sometimes accompanied by reference to the Quran and sometimes just mentioned without explicit reference, as though the (presumed Muslim) audience understands where that idea comes from. They are reading from the same playbook, in this case drawing upon the Quran [my brackets]:

2:120 "And the Jews will not be pleased with you, nor the Christians until you follow their religion. Say: Surely Allah's guidance, that is the (true) guidance. And if you follow their desires after the knowledge that has come to you, you shall have no guardian from Allah, nor any helper."

2:217 "They ask you concerning the sacred month about fighting in it. Say: Fighting in it is a grave matter, and hindering (men) from Allah's way and denying Him, and (hindering men from) the Sacred Mosque and turning its people out of it, are still graver with Allah, and persecution [fitnah] is graver than slaughter; and they will not cease fighting with you until they turn you back from your religion, if they can; and whoever of you turns back from his religion, then he dies while an unbeliever -- these it is whose works shall go for nothing in this world and the hereafter, and they are the inmates of the fire; therein they shall abide."

In the latter verse, turning back refers to apostasy, in this circumstance a reference to turning back to shirk (polytheism). Fitnah in this case refers to persecution, religious persecution, trials, seduction toward apostasy, seduction toward shirk, etc. Some Quranic exegetes interpret "fitnah is worse than slaughter" as "shirk is worse than slaughter."

""If someone leaves the din [religion], leaves the path privately, they cannot be touched. If someone preaches about apostasy, or preaches their views, they're jailed," stated Imam Abdallah Adhami in a November lecture obtained and reviewed by WND."

There is indeed a distinction between public and private apostasy in Islamic jurisprudence. However, it would be misleading to suggest, as Adhami does, that one would literally have to be preaching apostasy--as in simply no longer believing in Allah, Muhammad, and the Quran--or un-Islamic views to be punished. The Shafi'i fiqh as described in the Reliance of the Traveler for example provides a long list of expressions and behaviors, each of which could constitute apostasy and thus warrant the death penalty. For example, denying the basic premise that Islam is the religion that should be followed by the whole world is considered apostasy. In addition, the first rightly-guided caliph Abu Bakr waged war against "apostates" on the grounds that they refused to pay zakat.

"Preaching apostasy" is also, in effect, what proselytizers do when they try to persuade Muslims to adopt some other belief. Again, the main classical sharia penalty for this, according to what I've read in examining the dhimmah laws, is death.

I'm also skeptical of his claim that merely jailing people for apostasy was somehow more normal or common, historically, than executing them. Perhaps it was, but he cites no examples of this. In some schools of jurisprudence, adult female apostates of sound mind were jailed, and were not released until they repented. Adult male apostates of sound mind were generally given a grace period, being held in jail, before either being released (if they declared their reversion back to Islam) or executed (if they refused to declare reversion back to Islam).

(Note that in this discussion, Adhami, in giving what he calls his answer and opinion, never simply states that there should be no worldly penalty for apostasy, whether public or private).

"The Quran distinguishes between public and private apostasy," he said, failing to note most medieval Islamic scholars did not make such a distinction."

The Quran itself is too unclear on the subject of specific penalties for mere apostasy or mere public apostasy. (Muhammad's sweeping and unqualified command to kill any apostate is in the Hadith.) I can accept that scholars might have come along after the fact and, with the Hadith, interpreted a difference between public and private apostasy in the Quran. Or, perhaps, that they found the need to make such distinctions due to practical circumstances. But the Quran itself is a crude book that does not get into such explicit distinctions.

"Adhami admitted, "Yes, many jurists said [public apostates] have to be killed. ... But the position of the state was the position of Islamic scholars - they must be jailed so they are contained.""

I think he should be pressed for evidence of this.

"He said, "In Islam, in the Quran, theoretically, if you look over the Quran from cover to cover, you literally have the right to the choice to reject God's message. The only thing you do not have the right to do is to spread this conviction, lest you, quote unquote, pollute others.""

Having a "right" to do something means that action or expression or decision is protected in law, or at least that one can do it with impunity. But according to the Quran, apostasy and disbelief are to be punished in this world, and there is no specification that apostates and disbelievers have to public announce or promote their beliefs for the worldly penalties to be inflicted on them. In addition, jihad policy clearly shows that people do not have the right to reject Islam without facing some kind of penalty, ranging from death, to subjugation (and paying the jizya and being subject to sharia), to slavery.

Re "spread this conviction" and "pollute others," this seems to be a reference to 5:32-33. Those who spread corruption are to be subjected to a range of penalties, depending on the severity and type of crime, including death, crucifixion, amputation of hand and foot on alternate sides of the body, or banishment or imprisonment.

==========
In the recording of Adhami at the link on WND, he refers to the incident in the Hadith where Uthman intervenes to save a relative who had apostatized.* Instead of executing the man, Muhammad apparently let him go. Adhami claims this as evidence against a death penalty for apostasy. What Adhami doesn't mention is that the apostate in question had re-declared his allegiance to Islam and re-embraced it in front of Muhammad. In other words, it appears the man was spared because he converted back to Islam; he was a Muslim again. *(This is in reference to the rather bizarre incident where Muhammad had actually wanted his men to kill the apostate immediately, but apparently they failed to do this because of a miscommunication).

That's very moderate of him, as Islam calls for apostates to die.

To Sheik
It won’t be over until the last imam is hanged with the entrails of the last mufti. - Anon

"Meet the new boss, same as the old boss". (The Who)

Moderate Islam is also at war against us.

Ad-HAM-i: Get out of the 7th Century of your Barbaric Cult,
and realize that people have a RIGHT to think AND worship as
they see fit. Your supposed religion (it is MORE a CULT)
is the worst of the worst. You treat your females as dogs
(quote of another of your cult/imams) and they have to hide
behind material covering them, since your misogynists males
cannot "control their sexual urges"...gee, that's too bad, since they pretend to be so religious and faithful. Your idea of a God to follow, is a Pedophile Mo-HAM-mad, who was
an oversexed, lying, murdering, self-annointed hero, who caused chaos wherever he went. And this, is who you and yours follow? Shame on you for STILL living in a 7th Century where barbaric acts were perpetuated on little girls
such as FGM-female gentalia mutilation. THIS, still goes on
and YOU dare call out OTHER PEOPLE, OTHER RELIGIONS, WHEN YOUR SHARIA LAW, ALLOWS FOR THE KILLING OF PEOPLE IN THIS, THE 21st CENTURY. I'D SUGGEST YOU AND YOURS FIND ANOTHER CULT, YOURS' SEEMS TO BE ONE THAT CONDONES-HATE, LYING, KILLING, MAIMING, SEXUAL ASSAULT OF LITTLE BOYS AND GIRLS.

Ad-HAM-i: BTW, to think that your "9/11 Victory Mosque" is something wanted near Ground Zero, that STILL has the images
of OUR American Citizens killed, for OUR understanding is ludicrous. WE do NOT need this CULT MOSQUE built for OUR understanding, as WE ALREADY KNOW ENOUGH ABOUT YOUR MOSQUES AND WHAT THEY MEAN WHEN BUILT FOR YOUR CULT-AS IT IS "NOT FOR ANY RELIGOUS UNDERSTANDING, BUT RATHER, A MEETING PLACE
WHERE YOU AND YOURS CAN CONTINUE YOUR HATREDS TOWARD THE VERY COUNTRY YOUR PEOPLE HAVE KILLED AMERICANS. FORGET IT.
IT IS NEVER GOING TO BE ACCEPTABLE TO US.