Blasphemy law-related persecution, mobs in the streets chanting "Death to the Christians," and it's only getting worse. "Some Christians in Pakistan convert fear into safety," by Rick Westhead for The Toronto Star, January 20 (thanks to Ken):
[...] At least 20 to 25 former Christians adopt Islam each week by pledging an oath and signing a green and white document in which they accept Islam as "the most beautiful religion" and promise to "remain in the religion of Islam for the rest of my life, acknowledging that blessings are only from God." [...]Last autumn, politician Salman Taseer, the governor of Punjab, Pakistan's most prosperous province, began to campaign on behalf of a Christian woman named Asia Bibi, who had been sentenced to death for blasphemy. On Jan. 4, with debate over the future of Pakistan's blasphemy law at a fever pitch, Taseer was gunned down by one of his personal security guards.
Public reaction to Taseer's assassination was stunning.
Pakistan's lawyers, praised just three years ago for saving this country's independent judiciary, showered Taseer's assassin with rose petals on his way into court. A rally to celebrate his death attracted 40,000 in Karachi and thousands more posted tributes to the killer on their Facebook accounts.
"To be honest, I felt good when I heard he was dead; we got rid of him," said Raghib Naeemia, an iman at Jamia Naeemia. "It's very clear in the Holy Qur'an that if you say something nasty and harsh about the Holy Prophet, then you become a maloun (cursed) person. And we are supposed to round up those people and kill them very harshly." [...]
One of the results of this wave of anti-Christian activity unfolded on a sunny afternoon this week. Azra Mustafa, a 45-year-old housemaid, shuffled into the Jamia Naeemia and asked to speak to an imam. A recent convert to Islam, the housemaid and mother of six needed to get the proper documents to prove to her neighbours that she was no longer a Christian.
"It feels great," she said. "I moved to a Muslim neighbourhood and now I feel like we are one family."
Each day, Mustafa, whose husband remains Christian and now lives separately from his wife and children, wakes up to attend 5 a.m. prayers before she leaves for work four hours later. By the time she returns home at 7 p.m. from a job that pays her 2,500 rupees ($28) a month, darkness has fallen over her one-room home. After dinner, a teacher comes to her home to give Mustafa and her children 90-minute lessons on Arabic and the Qur'an.
Asked if she felt safer in the wake of her conversion, Mustafa replied, "of course."
Mustafa sat patiently as the seminary's staff and students hustled about, preparing to attend a rally scheduled for later that afternoon -- a protest that featured at least 3,000 people who at one point chanted "death to Christians and the friends of Christians" as they marched through the heart of Lahore.
As Mustafa gathered her papers together and prepared to leave, Parvaiz Masih, a 23-year-old auto rickshaw diver, walked into the office. He hoped to convert that afternoon, and had already told friends he would now be known as Muhammad Parvaiz.
"I've been thinking about it for two or three years," he said, wrapped in a heavy blue shawl. "About four days ago, I decided to do it."
A group of a dozen young men studied Parvaiz and a visitor asked if Taseer's murder and other publicized clashes involving Christians had played a role in his decision. Parvaiz shrugged meekly and wouldn't answer.
It wasn't long before another Christian, 26-year-old Naseer, entered Jamia Naeemia. With a crowd of men looking on, she, too, was hesitant to elaborate on why she wanted to follow Islam, but nodded when she was asked whether she believed she would be safer as a Muslim.
Adjusting a pin on the saffron-coloured dupatta that covered her face, Naseer said she had slipped away from her parents' home earlier in the day to make her way to the seminary. When another visitor asked again whether her personal safety played a role in her decision, Nasreen flashed a look of anger and snapped, "there's no question."
It was clear why Naseer and others were hesitant to speak more freely about their concerns over safety. An iman for the madrassa said he would not proceed if someone gave safety as a reason for their conversion.
Peter Jacob, executive director of an advocacy organization funded by the Catholic Church, said an average of 400 Christians annually converted to Islam between 2005 and 2010. In 2011, he expects that number to swell. "It's going to be very different in these hostile conditions," Jacob said. "People have no faith in the police or justice system and the kind of fear that exists now was never there before."...
Pakistan: Christians converting to Islam out of fear for their safety
.........................
Nothing like abject terror to lead people to see the "beauty" of the "Prophet" Muhammed's baleful creed. sarc/
God, I hate Islam.
If the basic human right to join or leave a religion as one likes, without fear of death, were truly universal, Islam would soon cease to exist and Muslims know it.
If Muslim women were afforded the basic human right to marry outside of Islam, Islam would soon cease to exist and Muslims know it. Thus we have the recent attempted murder of the Harry Potter actress by her brother, with her immediate family in collusion, for dating a non-Muslim. If one famous Muslima were to set and example and live, Islam would soon collapse.
The good news is that the Internet is spreading the word of anti-freedom philosophy known as Islam.
Hitler vs. Mohammed - Side by side comparisons - Hitler looks refreshing compared to Mohammed
This just keeps getting worse.
Pakistan's tourist industry must be in the crapper, for a long time now.
There was a recent story in the Globe and Mail indicating that an onion shortage in India was causing social stress.
The Pakistanis were going to help with more onions, then stalled so the Indians cut off tomatoe exports to Pakistan.
Then the onions rolled into India.
see:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/asia-pacific/india-in-a-stew-over-onion-shortage/article1878002/
Unbelievable craziness.
The sad mirroring of atrocities of Nazi Germany, circa 1932-1944, except there could be no conversion, just flee, if you were yet able, or suffer torture and death! And no, not only the peaceful Jewish people!
Of course that is exactly what will happen, to the converts, convert and suffer the misery of muslimism, and be persecuted, tortured and butchered for many, anyway, but maybe delayed some!
History keeps repeating, how do we, and the free world stop this? Without active intervention, it will just progress, until past the tipping point, of too late to save. World War II was remarkably late, and near the tipping point. It was a close call then.
http://weaselzippers.us/2011/01/22/muslims-leftists-plan-rally-against-the-war-and-islamophobia-on-april-9th-in-nyc-sf/#comment-34419
yes it is exactly that.. pass it on..
Islam is a Deathcult.
The proof is in the [blood] pudding.
Islam uses force because it has no valid arguments to recommend itself. A plagiarized and flawed Qur'an, along with violence, misogyny and corruption are also its trademarks.
It is simply worthless.
The problem is - we seem to be opening our doors specially to residents from this particularly fiendish Muslim country.
From http://frontpagemag.com/2011/01/20/protecting-illegal-aliens-from-a-terrorist-haven/
we find the following:
[Demonstrating, once again, that the Left has no regard for the safety and security of the American people, House Democrats led by Rep. Al Green (D-TX) have reintroduced a bill that will effectively give carte blanche to Pakistanis illegally residing in the country.
The Temporary Protected Status (TPS) bill is targeted toward Pakistanis allegedly affected by the floods which ravaged that country in July of 2010. However, it allows people who do not legally qualify as refugees to remain in the United States for a period of twelve months providing they are Pakistani nationals “who ha(ve) been continuously physically present in the United States since July 22, 2010″ — regardless of their immigration status.
Pakistan’s notoriety as an exporter of terrorism makes the TPS bill an exceedingly reckless measure.
With it, illegal aliens from a terrorist haven will be given protected status to roam free within our borders and will have the ability to travel to and from their home country.]
I can accept that Seattle's metrosexuals would shrug and sip lattes as Molly Norris was terrorised by Muslim to the point of leaving the city for a life underground. I can accept that because such people have no values of any worth and are professional nihilists and scum-bags; but what does one do about Christians who shrug and sip lattes as millions of Christians are hounded, imprisoned, tortured, raped, and or murdered by Muslims for being Christians? Yes, some few Christians do write letters to the editor. So, it's somewhat more than nothing.
This is not a new problem for Christians, neither in dar al Islam, nor in other places, many and most of which are formerly Christian, if one looks at, for example, Paul's Letters. Now Muslim lands. Now places of oppression and death for Christians. Lands formerly and legitimately Christian. Where do Christians go for safety in this world, if not the next? What place is open to all Christians? Not Europe, and not America. There is no place on Earth specifically for Christians. Here I will announce my idea that there must be such a place on Earth specifically for Christians, like Israel is for Jews. There must be a Christian nation.
Where would such a place be? I have an idea, but I wait on others, specifically Christians, to make a move. I suspect most if not all who care about their fellows, and those seem to be few, will write a letter to the editor complaining about Christians being persecuted but that they won't involve themselves further. We'll see.
"On Jan. 4, with debate over the future of Pakistan’s blasphemy law at a fever pitch, Taseer was gunned down by one of his personal security guards."
Which side was feverish?
"Public reaction to Taseer’s assassination was stunning."
Outrageous yes, but stunning no. The majority of Pakistanis want "blasphemers" (and apostates, and adulterers) to be killed.
"Pakistan’s lawyers, praised just three years ago for saving this country’s independent judiciary, showered Taseer’s assassin with rose petals on his way into court."
Praised by whom?
"“To be honest, I felt good when I heard he was dead; we got rid of him,” said Raghib Naeemia, an iman at Jamia Naeemia. “It’s very clear in the Holy Qur’an that if you say something nasty and harsh about the Holy Prophet, then you become a maloun (cursed) person. And we are supposed to round up those people and kill them very harshly.”"
The blasphemers are not only said to be "cursed" (33:57) but the Quran says they are (or are to be) "slain," 51:10 (qutila) or shall perish (Aisha Bewley's translation: "Death to the conjecturers", Maududi: "Doomed are the conjecturers," Palmer: "Slain be the liars," Arberry: "Perish the conjecturers," Ali Quli Qara'i, "Perish the liars," Bijan Moeinian: "Doomed are those who choose their religion based upon guesses and incomplete evidences," Muhammad Mahmoud Ghali: "Slain are the constant conjecturers,"). Some translators apparently have tried to soften qutila in 51:10 to mean "cursed." It is not clear whether 51:10 refers to death in this life or only in the hereafter. The passage context (e.g., in 51:13) suggests that the "death" of the liars/conjecturers will be on the Last Day or day of judgment, though that is not clear.
The command for killing mere blasphemers isn't in the Quran in clear and explicit form. It's in the Hadith, as are the examples of Muhammad's assassinations of critics, poets, singers, etc., assassinations which lay down the divine precedents for Muslims' conduct and Islamic law and jihad policy. The Quran says that Muhammad's example is an excellent one to follow (33:21), and that to obey Muhammad is to obey Allah (4:80). Verses such as 3:164 state that Allah sent Muhammad with the scripture (Quran) and the "wisdom" (al-hikmah); the latter is widely understood to refer to Muhammad's teachings, rulings, and example conduct.
The Quran does say that those who "speak evil" of Muhammad will be "cursed" in the world and the hereafter (33:57), and that those who "spread false news" will be slain with a fierce slaughter (33:60-62). Verse 9:61 says that those who "vex" Muhammad with their words will suffer a "painful doom/grievous punishment." Those who "say the word of disbelief" (e.g., apostates, hypocrites, blasphemers, etc.) will be doomed or face a grievous penalty in the world and in the hereafter (9:74).
As to whether Muslims are permitted to carry out such punishments or whether only Allah may do it (the latter is a common apologist claim), verse 57:25 states that Allah "brought down iron" so that Muslims could administer "justice" on earth. Muslims are ordered to command the right and forbid the wrong (7:157-158). The Quran indicates that Muslims can use their hands to deliver Allah's punishment on earth (9:14, 9:52, 8:17). Verse 2:251 says that if Allah did not use one set of people against others, the word would be full of mischief/corruption. Verse 5:54 says that if Muslims abandon their religion, Allah will guide other Muslims who will wage jihad and be harsh and mighty against the disbelievers but merciful to the true Muslims. Verse 9:111 says that Muslims are not only bound to the Quran, but also the Torah and Gospel, in matters of slaying and being slain in the cause of Allah. (Note that the Torah contains the death penalty for blasphemy).
Despite these ominous and angry statements, the Quran is not "very clear" on what Muslims are supposed to do to mere blasphemers. Verses 9:11-9:12 urge Muslims to kill those who revile the Islamic religion, and the leaders of disbelief, but that is not the only reason cited in the passage for why they should be killed. It's not clear that the verse can be taken as a death penalty for people who merely commit blasphemy and no other crime. (A similar issue of interpretation arises with the 4:88-91 passage regarding the killing of apostates). Verses 5:32-33 urge the killing of those who spread mischief or who wage war against Allah and the prophet, though attributing blasphemy to these categories requires some interpretation. (Zakir Naik takes 5:33 as laying out the penalties for blasphemy).
Back to the article:
"Asked if she felt safer in the wake of her conversion, Mustafa replied, “of course.”"
Yes, as Muhammad is quoted as saying, "Embrace Islam and you will be safe," otherwise "Know that we are Muslims" (i.e., duty-bound to wage jihad and enforce sharia).
"Adjusting a pin on the saffron-coloured dupatta that covered her face, Naseer said she had slipped away from her parents’ home earlier in the day to make her way to the seminary. When another visitor asked again whether her personal safety played a role in her decision, Nasreen flashed a look of anger and snapped, “there’s no question.”
It was clear why Naseer and others were hesitant to speak more freely about their concerns over safety. An iman [sic] for the madrassa said he would not proceed if someone gave safety as a reason for their conversion."
In other words, the policy is to (a) force them to convert to Islam and (b) force them to deny they are forced to convert. That's Muhammad's Islam. "No compulsion in the deen (system of allegiance and obedience)," just do what Muhammad says or else.
Islam is the Devil's religion and that's why it is hard to defeat. Particularly, it uses threats, intimidation, and violence, and that's why it's hard to defeat because people are afraid of the violence that will befall them should they criticize or reject Islam.
My speculation is that Islam will be around until the end of time, because it is the very best work or masterpiece of Satan, the Devil, who will be around until the end of time. Just as sin, in all of its evil manifestations (violence, deceit, immorality, greed, atheism, etc.) will be around until the end of time, so Islam will be around until the end of time.
Muslims who sincerely reject violence, deceit, and immorality, in my opinion, are on the right path towards Heaven. It is only Muslims (and non-Muslims, for that matter) who sincerely believe in violence, deceit, and immorality are on the right path towards Hell.
Other resources on blasphemy in Islam:
Start of notes, quotes, and links
------------------------------------
"Whosoever disputes a single verse of the Qur'an, strike off his head.” Ibn Majah,
See note 16 in this article:
http://www.meforum.org/article/1000
Why Do Muslims Execute Innocent People? by Denis MacEoin
Middle East Quarterly
Fall 2006, pp. 15-25
http://www.masud.co.uk/ISLAM/misc/alshifa/pt4ch1sec2.htm
Al-Shifa. Translated by Aisha Abdarrahman Bewley
Part Four
The judgements concerning those who think the Prophet imperfect or curse him
“Section Two. The proof of the necessity of killing anyone who curses the Prophet or finds fault with him”
“We have already mentioned the consensus. As for the traditions, al-Husayn ibn 'Ali related from his father that the Messenger of Allah said in respect of this matter,
"Whoever curses a Prophet, kill him. Whoever curses my Companions, beat him."[7]”
Also see this:
http://www.islam-watch.org/AbulKasem/BismiAllah/10b.htm
CONTEMPORARY
LEGAL RULINGS IN
SHI'I LAW
in accordance with the rulings (fatawa) of
Ayatullah al-'Uzma al-Sayyid 'Ali
al-Husayni al-Seestani
Q195: If they are serious and intend to slander Allah (s.w.t.), the Prophet (S), the Imams (a.s.), religion or school of law (madhhab) and persist in this.
A: The ruling upon them is death. (FM, p. 419)
[Source: http://www.al-islam.org/laws/contemporary/
From Bostom’s (2005) The Legacy of Jihad:
Jami’-i ‘Abbasi: Yakdawrah-i Fiqh-i. Muhammad al-Amili (d.1621). Part Six: Holy War (Jihad).
Chapter 21. in The Legacy of Jihad, p. 213.
From the twelve conditions to which dhimmis (Jews, Christians, and Zoroastrians living under Muslim rule) must conform.
“Fifth condition: Those possessing the Holy Scriptures must not deceive Muslims or debunk what they [the Muslims] believe in.”
“Ninth condition: Those possessing the Holy Scriptures must not disrespect the Muslim Faith.”
The Legacy of Jihad, p. 261. The Jihad or Holy War According to the Malikite School. Edmund Fagnan.
14… The dhimmi is punished if he “…manifests his religious opinions, if he speaks in a disrespectful manner…”
15… “The protection agreement is breached…when he insults a prophet using expressions permitted by his faith, such as the following which has been reported: ‘He is not the prophet, God did not send him—the Qur’an was not revealed to him—he’s the author of it—Jesus created Muhammad—Muhammad is a poor man: he tells you that he is in paradise, but why, then, could he not defend himself from the biting dogs?’21 The guilty party [in this last case] is put to death if he does not convert.”
The Legacy of Jihad, p. 207. Shara ‘i’ u ‘l-Islam. Al-Hilli (d. 1277).
“The six conditions to which the infidel tributaries must be subjected are as follows:
…193 A tributary who blasphemes the prophet must be put to death.”
194. A tributary who speaks irreverently about the memory of the Prophet incurs a corporal punishment only, if the terms of the treaty did not include a prohibition of this act.5”
“5. Otherwise, the treaty can be dissolved, since it has been violated.”
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/ABewley/RisAhkam.html
Maliki jurisprudence,
The Risala
of 'Abdullah ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani
(310/922 - 386/996)
A Treatise on Maliki Fiqh
(Including commentary from ath-Thamr ad-Dani by al-Azhari)
37.19h. Insulting the Messenger of Allah
If someone curses the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, he is killed and his repentance is not accepted. If one of the people of dhimma abuses him outside of that which constitutes his disbelief or curses Allah Almighty other than what constitutes his disbelief, he is killed unless he becomes Muslim.
Blasphemy penalty in reliance of traveler
"The Reliance of the Traveller. Version 1.06 - By Ahmad Ibn Naqib Al-Misri
BOOK O: JUSTICE Chapter O-11.0: Non-Muslim Subjects of the Islamic State (Ahl Al-Dhimma)
{Re the dhimmah agreement}:
O-11.10
The agreement is also violated (A: with respect to the offender alone) if the state has stipulated that any of the following things break it, and one of the subjects does so anyway, though if the state has not stipulated that these break the agreement, then they do not; namely, if one of the subject people:
1- commits adultery with a Muslim woman or marries her;
2- conceals spies of hostile forces;
3- leads a Muslim away from Islam;
4- kills a Muslim;
5- or mentions something impermissible about Allah, the Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace), or Islam.
O-11.11
When a subject's agreement with the state has been violated, the caliph chooses between the four alternatives mentioned above in connection with prisoners of war (o-9.14).
The Reliance of the Traveller. Version 1.06 - By Ahmad Ibn Naqib Al-Misri
BOOK O: JUSTICE Chapter O-9.0: Jihad
O-9.14
When an adult male is taken captive, the caliph (def: o-25) considers the interests (O: of Islam and the Muslims) and decides between the prisoner's death, slavery, release without paying anything, or ransoming himself in exchange for money or for a Muslim captive held by the enemy.
If the prisoner becomes a Muslim (O: before the caliph chooses any of the four alternatives) then he may not be killed, and one of the other three alternatives is chosen."
http://epress.anu.edu.au/nts/mobile_devices/ch11s02.html
Attitudes towards blasphemy in Muslim countries and Australia
---------------------
End of notes, quotes, and links
Living Stone,
You write:
"Just as sin, in all of its evil manifestations (violence, deceit, immorality, greed, atheism, etc.) will be around until the end of time, so Islam will be around until the end of time."
and
"Muslims who sincerely reject violence, deceit, and immorality, in my opinion, are on the right path towards Heaven. It is only Muslims (and non-Muslims, for that matter) who sincerely believe in violence, deceit, and immorality are on the right path towards Hell."
So you believe that moral Muslims can go to heaven (even though you also say their religion, Islam, is "the Devil's religion")? That's interesting. A poll by PEW suggests lots of American Christians also believe that Muslims will go to heaven.
http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1062/many-americans-say-other-faiths-can-lead-to-eternal-life
You list "atheism" as an evil manifestation of sin, and you put it in the same category as violence, deceit, immorality, and greed. Do you think atheists will all go to hell?
If you do, I have to disagree with you. As an atheist, I think the idea of sending people to hell to be burned and tortured for mere disbelief in a personal god is itself an evil idea. Evil ideas can have evil consequences when taken seriously and carried through to their logical conclusions, like the theological justifications (in Christianity and Islam, historically) for earthly penalties for blasphemy, apostasy, heresy, etc.
People were just too shy to come right out and demand that in our arsenal we add the ever deadly "cut and paste." I quake. I'm sure cutting and pasting is a terrible way to go. I hope for something myself much quicker. Christians mostly get it too, like being raped, burned, and hacked to death by Muslims. But it could well be that Muslims will see the utter barbarity of cutting and pasting and will adopt it somehow into jihad.
Otherwise, one might actually put some real effort into trying to save living Christians. Yes, it's less dramatic than cutting and pasting, but in the long term it might be more effective for the living. Then again, there is always some quoting to do to Muslims, scaring them into passivity in the face of Christians. There is even the threat of Muslims going to Hell. I think we're winning now. Cutting, pasting, quoting, and cursing. Why didn't anyone think of it sooner.
I'm guessing that somewhere in the world today there is a third kind of Christian, not one of those who spends his time and effort claiming that Muslims are misunderstood and victims of imperialism and capitalism and Islamophobia and c.; and not those who write letters complaining that atheists are going to Hell and that Muslims are bad but could be good if only they'd write pretty pieces in the Times, and c.: I'm thinking there might be somewhere in the world some Christians who are maybe interested in working to find a sanctuary for persecuted Christians now living in dar al Islam.
Yes, I am sometime naive, and Christians are like all other people on Earth, pretty much involved in their own pursuits, even when it comes to public affairs, which is why they write letters to the editor in lieu of acting in the world. I know that Christians are empty talkers like most other people, with an unfortunate exception of Muslims. Still, I'm thinking there must be some Christians somewhere who aren't worthless bastard talkers, men who actually will do some real work to save people's lives. I'm no Christian, and it interests me. But maybe that's partly why it interests me. I don't have much enthusiasm for cursing people about going to Hell for not being Christians. I prefer some action in the world, like beyond quoting Bible verses and so on. As I say, I can be naive.
You might try looking up Peter Hammond of Frontline Fellowship.
He's written two books - 'Faith Under Fire in Sudan', and 'Slavery, Terrorism and Islam'.
He's walked in some dangerous places.
Somehow I don't think he's a pacifist.
Confused him momentarily with Mark Durie, another fine man. Will look into your tip in the morning. Thanks for this, and for other points you've passed on. Always my pleasure.
Dag.
In Islam there is no compulsion in religion.
Of course you will have to pay the Jizya, sometimes we will protect you, unless of course you get uppity and answer back, in which case we will charge you with blasphemy, for which the punishment is death.
But mind you not a single person has been executed by the Govt, we are too humane for that, they have been executed by the lynch mobs, to save us the cost a long trial or the miscarriage of justice after acquittal.
Sometimes of course we will just kill you. After all being an infidel you are going to hell anyway, so we are just doing Allah's job by sending you there earlier.
And you are not human after all, having refused to testify that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah.
We have all testified that Muhammad is the messenger of Allah, as Allah said so in our presence. We were witness to that declaration.
So sometimes we will rape and abduct your wives and daughters, and we will refuse you aid when there are floods, though much of that aid was sent by your Christian brethren in other lands.
So think of it infidels. We will kill, rape, rob, kick you. You will have to grovel and scrape before us, but you are quite free to be infidels - no pressure.
It's interesting how easy it is for some people to change their religions, like changing a shirt...How easy is it for someone who loves and is devoted to Jesus, to drop that and start embracing Mahound? I can see how converting to Islam can be an attractive proposition to save your life, but do you really mean it?
There is a hadith, I'm to lazy to look it up, where one of Mahounds merry men killed a man who had converted under pressure because the warrior didn't believed he meant it...Mahound told him not to do that any more, because they may not be a pious convert now, but they will be in the future...
Just as sin, in all of its evil manifestations (violence, deceit, immorality, greed, atheism, etc.) will be around until the end of time...
There are people on the planet who can't conceive of the idea that someone can believe in 'no god' and still be a decent human being...In their view, decency without a god is not possible, it is a sin...Sin is the $64 question, it is the paramount issue, it is absolutely required...Without sin, there would be no need for a savior, no need for lavish and expensive buildings, and thousands of priests chanting his name, because without sin, you have nothing to be saved from...Living a moral life, without violence, without deceit, without greed, will not save the atheist from sin because the pious have it figured out that you were born with 'original sin, so you can't get out of the trap that the clever set for you...Sin is mandatory, and you can't relieve yourself of it by yourself, you need help, so go to church and find some...
The atheist looks at all that stuff and laughs, because he knows none of it applies to him, no matter what the pious think...
The price paid to be a Muslim is your soul.
I wonder why Azra Mustafa's hubby, if he was not going to convert, had to allow her to take their 6 kids w/ her? After all, as the hubby, he could have kept them, and just let her convert. Another thing - now, any Muslim can demand to rape Azra, and she can do nothing about it, since she's Muslimah & her hubby is not.
I sat up longer still and read about Peter Hammond of Frontline Fellowship. His account of finding war-wounded Sudanese thronging around him in delight as he passed out native language Bibles is pretty good, especially in counter-point to the Swiss ngo type with the Wicca medallion trying to prevent him. As a kid I worked briefly for Richard Wurmbrand, a Christian of some deep commitment, and it might have confused me about the nature of Christians generally. OK, my mistake. One carries on.
Pakistan's lawyers, praised just three years ago for saving this country's independent judiciary, showered Taseer's assassin with rose petals on his way into court.
................................
This should come as no surprise. The "lawyers" haven't changed. Most credulous Westerners assumed this was about maintaining an "independent judiciary" in the Western sense, but there was *always* a strong Islamic element to the whole affair.
More:
"To be honest, I felt good when I heard he was dead; we got rid of him," said Raghib Naeemia, an iman at Jamia Naeemia. "It's very clear in the Holy Qur'an that if you say something nasty and harsh about the Holy Prophet, then you become a maloun (cursed) person. And we are supposed to round up those people and kill them very harshly."
................................
Could you imagine a Christian Priest or Pastor or Jewish Rabbi saying such a thing? (Rhetorical question)
More:
Each day, Mustafa, whose husband remains Christian and now lives separately from his wife and children...
................................
Azra's Christian husband will likely soon be divorced by Islamic decree. He will have no rights to his children, and it is likely that he won't even be able to see them anymore.
More:
Mustafa sat patiently as the seminary's staff and students hustled about, preparing to attend a rally scheduled for later that afternoon -- a protest that featured at least 3,000 people who at one point chanted "death to Christians and the friends of Christians" as they marched through the heart of Lahore.
................................
What must this woman be thinking, surrounded by people who would have wanted to kill her a short period before—and would still murder her husband—and living among neighbors who will demand proof that she is no longer fair game?
It must be almost intolerable.
But fear is a deep and powerful motivator, especially for a mother with small children to protect.
More:
It was clear why Naseer and others were hesitant to speak more freely about their concerns over safety. An iman for the madrassa said he would not proceed if someone gave safety as a reason for their conversion.
................................
Deepest perversion. Not only are Christians absolutely terrorized, they cannot so much as publicly acknowledge it. They have to pretend that they are freely and happily converting to the very baleful creed that has threatened to murder them.
"..400 Christians annually converted to Islam between 2005 and 2010."
The other side of the medal:
"The number of Christians in Pakistan grew from 80 thousand in 1947 to 6 million in 2000" (Sheikh Ahmed al-Qataani)
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2010/05/dying-islam-lislam-mourant.html
"You list 'atheism' as an evil manifestation of sin, and you put it in the same category as violence, deceit, immorality, and greed. Do you think atheists will all go to hell?"
I'm not saying that all atheists are going to Hell. I'm not even saying that all Christians are going to Heaven. God is the only one who will decide who goes to Heaven and who goes to Hell. I just know that atheism, in and of itself, is not a "sign" that someone is on a path towards Heaven.
Generally speaking, all sins are evil. And atheism is a sin because it's a refusal to acknowledge God despite the abundance of evidence (apparent in His creation) that all point to His existence.
In any case, an atheist couldn't care less (theoretically speaking) if he would go to Heaven or Hell as he believes that no such things exist.
But just a reminder to atheists and agnostics, if God really does exist, their refusal to believe in Him will not make Him cease to exist. Just as in centuries past, when people believed that the Earth was flat, that did not make the spherical Earth become flat. So, atheists and agnostics can deny or doubt the existence of God, but their denial or doubt cannot make God cease to exist.
It may be possible for an atheist or agnostic of good will to go to Heaven. If it is possible, it would be no thanks to his/her atheism or agnosticism, but thanks to God's mercy and grace that enabled him/her to have a good will.
"There are people on the planet who can't conceive of the idea that someone can believe in 'no god' and still be a decent human being...In their view, decency without a god is not possible, it is a sin...The atheist looks at all that stuff and laughs, because he knows none of it applies to him, no matter what the pious think..."
I can only suppose that by "a decent human being" you mean someone who does not practice or commit murder, theft, deception, rape, and such serious criminal offenses. I can certainly imagine such decent people who are atheists and agnostics - and I'm even on planet Earth!
If there is a God, and He is no better than the most "decent human being" imaginable, then I cannot believe in such a God because He wouldn't really be a God if He is no better than the most "decent human being" imaginable.
My point is this. If God exists, His Holiness or Goodness is infinitely above that of the most decent human being imaginable, and for that reason, even the most decent human being is not worthy of Heaven - far from it. And if this most decent human being couldn't care less about this God, why would this most decent human being want to spend eternity with God in Heaven? And God wouldn't force this most decent human being to spend eternity with Him in Heaven. If God exists as understood in Christianity, then in the end, there is only Heaven and Hell. If this most decent human being doesn't go to Heaven, then there is no other option for him/her but Hell.
Living Stone,
Thanks for the kind reply. I will try to briefly explain why I, as someone who does not believe in hell, am nevertheless concerned about that belief. Some of those who do believe in it think that we must regulate behavior in the real world in light of the risk of hell-fire, as surely as we must regulate behavior in light of the risk of (physically) being killed or of dying. Just as there are strong moral pressures to do something to reduce the risk of being killed, for those who truly believe in the existence of hell there are strong moral pressures to do something to reduce the risk of others being sent there. Hence, even without direct commands to kill blasphemers (e.g., like those in the Islamic Hadith, and in the Old Testament), there are particular lines of reasoning available to those who accept some of these premises (that God is good and right, he exists, he will judge and send to hell those who transgress whatever important critical standards he sets, etc.). Imposing strict regulations on public expressions on religious matters is one of the logical and moral consequences of these beliefs. We know persuasion can influence peoples' beliefs, that people can be influenced in and out of their beliefs. Some theologians thought that this was serious enough and dangerous enough a matter that they believed they had to impose strict harsh penalties as deterrents. Public apostasy, blasphemy, heresy, etc., all pose a threat to the fidelity of belief and thus increase the risk of people going to hell. That puts a moral obligation on those who believe in hell to do everything they can to "protect" as many people as they can. The real world is the arena, the testing ground, where people are judged by God. Those in power are under an even greater obligation, because they have greater capacity to regulate society.
There are other ways of looking at it. One may view blasphemy and related actions (apostasy, heresy) as amounting to breaking one's covenant with God; a kind of treason. One may view blasphemous expressions as slander or libel against God, which are punishable if it is believed that God is real and thus can really be defamed, much like a judge or a leader could be defamed.
Classifying disbelief and expressions of disbelief as sinful or criminal has the logical consequence of classifying disbelievers and blasphemers as criminals, wrong-doers; corrupt. This type of stigma or perception can have an influence on how believers deal with non-believers.
None of this is of course to suggest that death penalties and so forth must follow from such beliefs. The point is that these lines of reasoning are available to, and in some case have been taken by, those who take the beliefs seriously and feel under a moral obligation to act on them.
Pass God, and praise the ammunition.
"Classifying disbelief and expressions of disbelief as sinful or criminal has the logical consequence of classifying disbelievers and blasphemers as criminals, wrong-doers; corrupt. This type of stigma or perception can have an influence on how believers deal with non-believers."
First of all, I want to apologize for classifying "atheism" as an "evil manifestation of sin". While I maintain that "atheism" is a sin, classifying it as "evil" was a mistake. Only God knows the degree of culpability of any atheist, and even Christians can share some degree of responsibility for others' atheism inasmuch that we fail to live out and transmit correctly our Christian faith.
In any case, "atheism" should never be criminalized. Freedom of religion, it seems to me, necessarily implies freedom not to believe in any religion.
What you said above as I have quoted is true of Islam because Islam issues threats of violence towards Muslims and non-Muslims alike if they fail to abide by the demands of Islamic law or Sharia.
But the same thing that you said as I have quoted above is not true of Christianity. While murder, theft, and rape (considered to be "sins" in Christianity) should always be criminalized by civil authorities, Christianity itself does not call for the criminalization of such sins as atheism, fornication, adultery, etc. And I'm not aware of any Christian group that calls for the crminalization of such things.
You wrote:
"It was clear why Naseer and others were hesitant to speak more freely about their concerns over safety. An iman for the madrassa said he would not proceed if someone gave safety as a reason for their conversion".
BINGO!