Pakistan: Governor of Punjab province murdered for opposing blasphemy law

Why we don’t see more Islamic reformers, chapter 489. Taseer dared to oppose the blasphemy law that Muslims in Pakistan have used for years now to victimize Christians, and so he has been murdered. “Punjab governor Salman Taseer assassinated in Islamabad,” from the BBC, January 4 (thanks to all who sent this in):

The governor of Pakistan’s Punjab province, Salman Taseer, has died after being shot in the Pakistani capital Islamabad.

Mr Taseer, a senior member of the ruling Pakistan People’s Party (PPP), was shot in a popular shopping district of the city by a member of his own security detail.

He was taken to hospital where he died from his injuries.

His alleged assassin has been arrested.

Mr Taseer had recently spoken out against the country’s blasphemy law, prompting protests by Islamists.

The BBC’s Aleem Maqbool, in Islamabad, says Mr Taseer was one of Pakistan’s most important political figures and his death will further add to instability in the country.

The PPP-led government is facing a crisis that erupted after a coalition partner quit.

The assassination of Salman Taseer once again highlights Pakistan’s unending troubles. He was a high-profile leader of the PPP, and was governor of the country’s largest province, Punjab. His death has left the country in shock at a time when it faces an imminent political crisis.

On the face of it, the assassination appears to be an individual act of a police guard in Mr Taseer’s security detail. The guard has reportedly said he killed him because Mr Taseer publicly opposed the blasphemy law….

Pakistan: Punjab governor murdered for opposing blasphemy law was killed by member of moderate Muslim group
Kurdish women's rights activists fear for their lives after mullah accuses them of blasphemy
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Comments

  1. says

    “by a member of his own security detail.”

    I am frankly surprised that we haven’t seen this yet with Karzai or Malaki.

    As Robert points out, “war is deceit” and you never know whose side they are on.

  2. says

    Does anyone really believe these often illiterate jihadists are that theologically dedicated to, or even knowledgeable of, the minutiae of Islam, as these articles often infer? Maybe a handful, like the well-educated Mohammad Atta, but hard to believe most of these vermin have any more than simple-minded, short-term goals.

    Either jihadists are the most idealistic, deep-thinkers on the planet, or Islam inherently cultivates in the common man the psychological attitude required for clanism, gangland warfare, and murder. Somehow I think its not the former. Anyone care to weigh in?

  3. says

    Spain’s 15th century ouster of Muslims stands as an exception, but the general rule is, Once Islamisized, always Islamisized. (And given the residual Islamic traces that still linger on in Spain, even to this day, one wonders if Isabella’s crowning achievement was really all that successful.)

    Islam follows the pattern of all totalitarian systems. Freedom is promised, but slavery is delivered. The so-called “agrarian reformers” (e.g., Mao, Castro) say they will let the people rule, sometimes with an enticement of the vote – One Man, One Vote. When the people fall for the line (think Venezuela and Chavez for a recent example), they learn too late the full phrase – One Man, One Vote, One Time.

    Once the coat of Islam is put on, it is impossible to get off, akin to the mythological Coat of Nessus which was the death of Hercules.

    Western Europe is learning exactly what it has invited into its house. Yes, hard as it is to believe, but the countries of WE actually invited Muslims to live among them, obviously forgetting or ignoring Islam’s 1400 year history, no small part of it aimed directly at WE (732, 1529, 1683, plus the naval battles and countless acts of privacy.)

    These western leaders should be hung.

  4. says

    Conceived by violence, spread by violence, maintained by violence and defended by violence.
    Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose.
    Problem is, islam never changes because progress is haram.

  5. says

    Mr Taseer, a senior member of the ruling Pakistan People’s Party (PPP), was shot in a popular shopping district of the city by a member of his own security detail.
    …………………….

    Even Muslims in Dar-al-Islam are unable to identify which Muslims are “moderate””moderate enough, at any rate, to forego murdering the people they are charged with protecting, if that person is held to have rendered himself apostate by virtue of taking a position against blasphemy laws.

  6. says

    In Islam, Muslims who display a little common sense and a recognition that freedom of speech and religious plurality are good things are deemed worthless Muslims who are pious believers of Islam….and worthless Muslims must be put to death to insure that Islam’s mindless followers know their place and stay in line…Islam thrives on fear and death…it is how Islam survives…keep the people ignorant and faithful…

  7. says

    they feel as if the west is trying to force them change their Blasphemy law. The imans want someone to be put to death (Asia bili will do ) and have been whipping up some hysteria lately. They want to show west they can do as they like.
    The security guard is just doing his duty!

  8. says

    Islam_Match_Frei said:

    “I am frankly surprised that we haven’t seen this yet with Karzai or Malaki.”

    I am not, study their actions and they are mostly pro-Islam.

    It is a fact that some people at high levels of the Vietamese government were actually working for the Vietcong and it only came to light after the Vietnam war ended.

    From their actions, I wonder on which side of the conflict Maliki and Karzai are.

  9. says

    Not quite the same circumstances but still eerily similar to the fate of Anwar Sadat.

    As for why this hasn’t happened to Karzai or Malaki: who is their guard detail? Are they strangers or family/tribe members? (Saddam had people who wanted him dead but he also surrounded himself with people who had a vested interest in his survival. It’s also said he varied his routine. He took nothing for granted.) Maybe these other leaders follow a similar practice. They might rotate people in and out. Without a pattern of movement, it’s hard to plan an attack. If you don’t know where you or your quarry will be on any given day, you have to hope for luck.

  10. says

    You see, it’s easy to pick out “moderate” Moslems. Governor Taseer is dead, which means he was “moderate”. His killer is a regular Moslem. See, easy-peasy.

  11. says

    The fact that the assasin neither took his own ‘life’, nor was gunned down by the remainder of the ‘security detail’, is a fairly telling thing. This twangs. .

  12. says

    source:wikipedia

    Selected casesPakistani authorities charged 1274 people with offences under the blasphemy laws since 1986 till 2010. Sixty percent of the people charged were non-Muslim. Most of those charged were murdered soon after the charge was laid.[9][15]

    In November 2010, Asia Bibi was sentenced to death by hanging on a charge of blasphemy; the case that has yet to be upheld by the Lahore High Court has sparked international reactions.

    On Dec. 12, 2010, during a press conference major Islamic parties in Pakistan launched a campaign for upholding the sanctity of Prophet Muhammad against the proposed amendment in the blasphemy laws. [16]

    In July 2010, the Lahore High Court ordered the release of Zaibun Nisa, a woman who was jailed in 1996 on a charge of blasphemy when police were investigating a complaint that a Quran had been defiled. Nisa’s lawyer reported, “There was no evidence linking her to the crime.”[17]

    In July 2010, a trader in Faisalabad complained that one of his employees had been handed a pamphlet which contained disrespectful remarks about Muhammad. According to the police, the pamphlet appeared to have the signatures and addresses of Pastor Rashid Emmanuel and his brother Sajid, who were Christians. While the police were escorting the brothers from a district court, gunmen shot and killed both.[18] Allama Ahmed Mian Hammadi, a Pakistani Muslim cleric, has claimed that Shahbaz Bhatti, Pakistan’s Federal Minister for Minorities has himself committed blasphemy by branding the recently murdered Christian brothers as victims of Pakistan blasphemy laws. Bhatti had spoken out about the murder last week of Rashid Emmanuel, 30, and his brother Sajid, 27, by unidentified masked gunmen inside a courthouse in Faisalabad. The brothers had been accused of blaspheming the Prophet Muhammad earlier this month, a charge they had both denied. According to Mr Hammadi’s statement, published in Daily Jasarat, a Pakistani Urdu daily newspaper, the Muslim cleric said that Muslims cannot tolerate blasphemy against the Prophet Muhammad. “It is not a cruelty to kill blasphemers, rather blasphemy itself is such an enormous brutality that the one who commits it neither has got a right to live in this world nor is there any pardon for the blasphemer,” Daily Jasarat quoted Mr Hammadi as saying. “Muslims won’t tolerate even a slightest blasphemy against Prophet Muhammad. If Shahbaz Bhatti committed blasphemy he would be beheaded.” Source: Christiantoday.com “Christians say that the murder of two Christian men is the result of the negligence of police and the local government authorities and bias attitude of the Punjab government towards religious minorities. Many media reports say that the Punjab government of Pakistan Muslim League has reportedly closed connections with banned militant organizations. Apart from that still there are many sympathizers of extremists are part of the police and establishment which encourage them to attack on religious minorities,” Aftab Alexander Mughal writes for FaithFreedom.org[19]

    On 4 August 2009, a Muslim mob attacked a factory-owner by the name of Najeebullah and others at Sheikhupura in the Punjab. The mob killed Najeebullah and two others, and set fire to the factory. The mob complained that Najeebullah had placed an outdated calendar, which contained verses from the Quran, on a table. For that offense, a worker accused Najeebullah of blasphemy. The workers may have been in a dispute with Najeebullah over wages.[20][21]

    On 30 July 2009, hundreds of members of Sipah-e-Sahaba, a banned Muslim organization, torched Christian homes and killed Christians in the Punjabi city of Gojra and in the nearby village of Korian. The proferred reason for the violence was that a Christian had defiled a Quran. Christian mobs retaliated. Fighting between Muslim and Christian groups went on through 1 August 2009.[22][23][24]

    On 28 January 2009, the police in Punjab arrested a labourer and four students for blasphemy. All those arrested were Ahmadi. The accusation against them was that they wrote “Prophet Muhammad” on the wall of a toilet in a Sunni mosque. The senior superintendent of police investigated and reported to the Ministry of the Interior at the end of March 2009 that the accusation was baseless.[11][25][26]

    In May 2008, Punjabi police jailed Robin Sardar, a Christian physician, upon an accusation of blasphemy from a Muslim street-vendor who wanted to install himself in front of Sardar’s clinic.[27]

    In February 2008, Special Rapporteurs of the United Nations Human Rights Council reminded Pakistan’s representative of the matter regarding Raja Fiaz, Muhammad Bilal, Nazar Zakir Hussain, Qazi Farooq, Muhammad Rafique, Muhammad Saddique and Ghulam Hussain. According to the allegations received, the men were members of the Mehdi Foundation International (MFI), a multi-faith institution utilizing the mystical principles of Ra Gohar Shahi. They were arrested on 23 December 2005 in Wapda Town. The police confiscated posters on which Gohar Shahi was shown as “Imam Mehdi.” On 13 July 2006, the Anti-Terrorism Court No. 1 in Lahore sentenced each accused to five years of imprisonment, inter alia, under § 295-A for having outraged others’ religious feelings. Since 27 August 2006, the seven men have been detained in Sahiwal Jail, Punjab, where they were forced to parade naked, and were suspended from the ceiling and beaten. The prisoners’ records were posted outside the cell, and falsely indicated that they had been sentenced under § 295-C. For this reason, they were constantly threatened and intimidated by prison staff as well as by other detainees. One MFI member was targeted by several other inmates and sexually assaulted. Subsequently, other staff members sexually abused him and pushed burning cigarette butts into his anus.[28]

    On 28 October 2007, the police arrested Muhammad Imran of Faisalabad under § 295-B for allegedly setting fire to a Quran. For three days, the police kept Imran in a torture-cell where they tortured him. Then the police sent him to a jail where other inmates attacked him. His jailers put Imran into solitary confinement without attending to his injuries. On 14 April 2009, an Additional Sessions judge released Imran.[29]

    On 9 May 2007, Raja Riaz, a servant, accused his master, Walter Fazal Khan Khan, 84, a Christian, of burning a Quran at his house. The police arrested Khan under § 295-B. Kahn’s family and others said Riaz’s accusation was part of a plot to take Khan’s valuable house and land from him.[30][31]

    In April 2007, upon a charge of blasphemy, the police in Toba Tek Singh jailed five Christians: Salamat Masih, his son Rashid, and their relatives Ishfaq, Saba, and Dao Masih. The allegation against the Christians was that they desecrated pieces of paper that bore Muhammad’s name. On 25 January 2009, the authorities released the Christians, and Muslim clerics agreed to issue a fatwa which declared that the accusation of blasphemy was unsound.[32]

    Christians and Muslims in Pakistan condemned Dan Brown’s novel The Da Vinci Code as blasphemous. On 3 June 2006, Pakistan banned the film. Culture Minister Ghulam Jamal said: “Islam teaches us to respect all the prophets of God Almighty and degradation of any prophet is tantamount to defamation of the rest.”[33]

    Two Christians, both elderly men from Faisalabad, Punjab, were acquitted by the Lahore High Court in April 2009. In November 2006, the two had been sentenced to 10 years in prison for allegedly burning pages from the Quran. The allegation arose apparently out of a dispute over land.[11]

    In March 2006, the police arrested Shafeeq Lateef for making derogatory remarks about Muhammad and for desecrating a Quran. On 18 June 2008, a District and Sessions court sentenced Lateef to death for his alleged remarks and demanded that he pay a fine of 500,000 rupees for desecrating a Quran.[34] Arshed Masih, 38, is still fighting for his life in Holy Family Hospital in Rawalpindi, a city not far from Pakistan’s capital. With the help of police, Muslim extremists last Friday set him on fire for refusing to convert to Islam and raped his wife, local sources told AsiaNews.it. The incident occurred in front of a local police station. In 2005, Masih and his wife began working for a wealthy Muslim businessman, he as driver and she as his wife’s maid. Recently, the two fell out of favour with their employer and his family because they insisted on remaining Christian. During the incident, Masih’s wife, Martha, “was raped by police agents,” local sources said. The couple’s three children, ranging in age from 7 and 12, were forced to watch their parents being brutalised. No action taken by the Government.

    On 11 August 2005, Judge Arshad Noor Khan of the Anti-Terrorist Court found Younus Shaikh guilty of defiling a copy of the Quran, outraging religious feelings, and propagating religious hatred among society.[35] Shaikh’s conviction occurred because he wrote a book: Shaitan Maulvi (Satanic Cleric). The book said stoning to death (Rajam) as a punishment for adultery was not mentioned in the Quran. The book said also that four historical imams (religious leaders) were Jews.[36] The judge imposed upon Shaikh a fine of 100,000 rupees, and sentenced him to spend his life in jail.[37]

    On 20 November 2003, the police arrested Anwar Masih, a day labourer, a Christian, a married father of four (at that time), a resident of Shahdara, a town next to Lahore.[13][38] The police charged Masih under § 295-B. The charge arose out of an encounter that Masih had with a neighbour who had grown a beard. The neighbor disclosed that he had converted from Christianity to Islam. Masih and the neighbour exchanged harsh words. The neighbour reported to the police that Masih had insulted Muhammad. The Lahore High Court acquitted Masih on 24 December 2004. In August 2005, Masih took a job in a factory. In November 2007, he lost the job when his employer was threatened for employing a “blasphemer.” Masih went into hiding.[13]

    In August 2003, the police arrested a Christian, Samuel Masih, for allegedly defiling a mosque by spitting on its wall. While in prison, Masih contracted tuberculosis. The authorities transported him to a hospital. There, on 24 May 2004, a police constable used a hammer to kill Masih. The constable said it was his duty as a Muslim to kill Masih.[39][40]

    In October 2000, Pakistani authorities charged Younus Shaikh, a physician, with blasphemy on account of remarks that students claimed he made during a lecture. The students alleged that, inter alia, Shaikh had said Muhammad’s parents were non-Muslims because they died before Islam existed. A judge ordered that Shaikh pay a fine of 100,000 rupees, and that he be hanged.[41] On 20 November 2003, a court retried the matter and acquitted Shaikh, who fled Pakistan for Europe soon thereafter.[42]

    In 2000, a court sentenced Naseem Ghani and Mohammed Shafiq to seven years imprisonment upon allegations that they had burned a Quran.[9]

    The police arrested Ayub Masih, a Pakistani Christian bricklayer, for blasphemy on 14 October 1996, and jailed him for violation of § 295-C. Muhammad Akram, a Muslim neighbor to Masih, complained to the police that Masih had said Christianity was right, and Masih had recommended that Akram read Salman Rushdie’s Satanic Verses.[8][43]

    The same day Masih was arrested, Muslim villagers forced the entire Christian population of Masih’s village (fourteen families) to leave it. Masih’s family had made application under a government program that gave housing plots to landless people. Local landlords resented Masih’s application because the landlords had been able to oblige landless Christians to work in the fields in exchange for a place to live. Masih’s application gave him a way out of his subservience to the landlords.[9] Upon Masih’s arrest, the authorities gave Masih’s plot to Akram.[8] Akram shot and injured Masih in the halls of the Session Court at Sahiwal on 6 November 1997. Four assailants attacked Masih in jail. The authorities took no action against Akram or against the other assailants.[8]

    On 20 April 1998, Judge Abdul Khan sentenced Masih to death and levied a fine of 100,000 rupees. Two judges of the Lahore High Court heard Masih’s appeal on 24 July 2001. Shortly thereafter, the judges affirmed the judgment of the trial court.[8] On 16 August 2002, the Supreme Court of Pakistan set aside the judgment of the lower courts. The Supreme Court noted Akram’s acquisition of Masih’s property, and concluded the case had been fabricated for personal gain. The court also noted other breaches in the law of due process.[44][45]

    Judge Arif Iqbal Hussain Bhatti was assassinated on 19 October 1997 in his Lahore office after acquitting two people who were accused of blasphemy.[8]

    Riaz Ahmad, his son, and two nephews (Basharat Ahmad, Qamar Ahmad and Mushtaq Ahmad), all Ahmadis, were arrested and jailed on 21 November 1993. They were detained for having “said something derogatory.” Local people in Piplan, Mianwali District, said that rivalry over Ahmad’s position as village headman was the real motivation for the complaint against him. The Sessions Court rejected the bail applications of the accused. The Supreme Court granted bail in December 1997.[6][9][13]

    In February 1993, Anwar Masih, a Christian from Samundri in Punjab, went to jail upon a Muslim shopkeeper’s allegation that, during an argument over money, Masih had insulted Muhammad.[9]

    In November 1992, Gul Masih, a Christian, was sentenced to death after having remarked to his neighbor Mohammad Sajjad, a Muslim, he had read “that Mohammed had 11 wives, including a minor.” [46]

    THIS IS THE TRUE NATURE OF PAKISTAN, MUHAMMAD’S BEST WAHABI FOLLOWERS.

  13. says

    This is an answer to those who say that Islam can be reformed. “All they have to do is have a gentler face and stop killing.”
    Islam has “safeguards” against reform which includes:

    1. Death for blasphemy – any real or imagined slight against Muhammad or Islam

    2. Death for apostasy – once a Muslim you cant leave and death for any deviation from “true” Islam as laid down in the Quran, and the Sunna (Sira – Muhammad’s biography and Hadith – his examples and teachings).

    This would include trying to tamper with Islamic commandments about blasphemy.

    I wonder if your president Obama would have anything to say about this assasination.

  14. says

    I dont know why …… sent me tis email, but just for giggles. Take a look.

    Nicolai Sennels is a Danish psychologist who has done extensive research
    into a little-known problem in the Muslim world: the disastrous causes of
    Muslim inbreeding brought about by the marriage of first-cousins.

    This practice, which has been prohibited in the Judeo-Christian tradition
    since the days of Moses, was sanctioned by Muhammad and has been going on now for 50 generations (1,400 years) in the Muslim world.

    This practice of inbreeding will never go away in the Muslim world since
    Muhammad is the ultimate example and authority on all matters, including
    marriage.

    The massive inbreeding in Muslim culture may well have done virtually
    irreversible damage to the Muslim gene pool, including extensive damage to
    its intelligence, sanity, and health.

    According to Sennels, close to half of all Muslims in the world are
    inbred. In Pakistan, the numbers approach 70%. Even in England, more than half of Pakistani immigrants are married to their first cousins, and in Denmark
    the number of inbred Pakistani immigrants is around 40% .

    The numbers are equally devastating in other important Muslim countries:
    67%
    in Saudi Arabia, 64% in Jordan and Kuwait, 63% in Sudan, 60% in Iraq, and
    54% in the United Arab Emirates and Qatar.

    According to the BBC, this Pakistani, Muslim-inspired inbreeding is
    thought to explain the probability that a British Pakistani family is more than 13
    times as likely to have children with recessive genetic disorders. While
    Pakistanis are responsible for three percent of the births in the UK, they
    account for 33% of children with genetic birth defects.

    The risk of what are called autosomal recessive disorders such as cystic
    fibrosis and spinal muscular atrophy is 18 times higher and the risk of
    death due to malformations is 10 times higher.

    Other negative consequences of inbreeding include a 100 percent increase
    in the risk of stillbirths and a 50% increase in the possibility that a child
    will die during labor.

    Lowered intellectual capacity is another devastating consequence of Muslim
    marriage patterns. According to Sennels, research shows that children of
    consanguinous marriages lose 10-16 points off their IQ and that social
    abilities develop much slower in inbred babies.

    The risk of having an IQ lower than 70, the official demarcation for being
    classified as “retarded,” increases by an astonishing 400 percent among
    children of cousin marriages.

    (Similar effects were seen in the Pharaonic dynasties in ancient Egypt and
    in the British royal family, where inbreeding was the norm for a
    significant period of time. )

    In Denmark, non-Western immigrants are more than 300 percent more likely
    to fail the intelligence test required for entrance into the Danish army.

    Sennels says that “the ability to enjoy and produce knowledge and abstract
    thinking is simply lower in the Islamic world. ” He points out that the
    Arab world translates just 330 books every year, about 20% of what Greece alone does.

    In the last 1,200 years years of Islam, just 100,000 books have been
    translated into Arabic, about what Spain does in a single year. Seven out
    of 10 Turks have never even read a book.

    Sennels points out the difficulties this creates for Muslims seeking to
    succeed in the West. “A lower IQ, together with a religion that denounces
    critical thinking, surely makes it harder for many Muslims to have success
    in our high-tech knowledge societies.”

    Only nine Muslims have every won the Nobel Prize, and five of those were
    for the “Peace Prize.” According to Nature magazine, Muslim countries produce just 10 percent of the world average when it comes to scientific research (measured by articles per million inhabitants).

    In Denmark, Sennels’ native country, Muslim children are grossly
    overrepresented among children with special needs. One-third of the budget
    for Danish schools is consumed by special education, and anywhere from 51%
    to 70% of retarded children with physical handicaps in Copenhagen have an immigrant background.

    Learning ability is severely affected as well. Studies indicated that 64%
    of school children with Arabic parents are still illiterate after 10 years in
    the Danish school system. The immigrant drop-out rate in Danish high
    schools is twice that of the native-born.

    Mental illness is also a product. The closer the blood relative, the
    higher the risk of schizophrenic illness. The increased risk of insanity may
    explain why more than 40% of the patients in Denmark’s biggest ward for
    clinically insane criminals have an immigrant background.

    The U.S. is not immune. According to Sennels, “One study based on 300,000
    Americans shows that the majority of Muslims in the USA have a lower
    income, are less educated, and have worse jobs than the population as a whole.”

    Sennels concludes:

    There is no doubt that the wide spread tradition of first cousin marriages
    among Muslims has harmed the gene pool among Muslims. Because Muslims’
    religious beliefs prohibit marrying non-Muslims and thus prevents them
    from adding fresh genetic material to their population, the genetic damage done
    to their gene pool since their prophet allowed first cousin marriages 1,400
    years ago are most likely massive. (This has produced) overwhelming direct
    and indirect human and societal consequences.

    Bottom line: Islam is not simply a benign and morally equivalent
    alternative to the Judeo-Christian tradition. As Sennels points out, the first and
    biggest victims of Islam are Muslims. Simple Christian compassion for
    Muslims and a common-sense desire to protect Western civilization from the
    ravages of Islam dictate a vigorous opposition to the spread of this dark
    and dangerous religion. These stark realities must be taken into account
    when we establish public polices dealing with immigration from Muslim
    countries and the building of mosques in the U.S.

    Let’s hope America wakes up before a blind naivete about the reality of
    Islam destroys what remains of our Judeo-Christian culture and our
    domestic tranquility.

  15. says

    It is a very brave Muslim who stands up against Islam. They are hunted far more extensively and effectively because they are the most hated.

    Islam provides plenty of places for serious disagreement, and disagreement with any can put you on the side of the Apostate. They can’t even stick their nose out of line without threat of being chopped off. This relates to the social situation Islam places upon its followers, so limited that it is only human that so many become violent.

  16. says

    Muslims believe that Islam is the final perfect religion which contains within itself whatever is of any value from all the world’s other religions. Islam, they think, subsumes every religion. If you want to be a true Christian, you have to become a Muslim and follow Muhammed. And the same for every other religion: they’re all incomplete imperfectly conceived faulty versions of the one true religion: Islam.
    Hence there exists a mentality such as Miriam Rove’s: If Islam is false and no good then every religion is false and no good. It’s an expression of a mentality essentially Islamic.

  17. says

    You can see a photo of the smiling assassin at the below URL. BBC News said on its broadcast that the photo was taken shortly after the killing. Note how he does not appear to be inconvenienced in the slightest. He is smiling because he just eliminated a blasphemer. Contrast his satisfied expression to the photos of the killer of Robert Kennedy and the nut who shot Reagan — they were being thrown to the ground.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12111831

  18. says

    http://newstime.co.nz/video-salman-taseer-killed-by-his-own-guard.html
    …It became a standardised practice to kill anyone
    who might criticise Muhammad from then on.

    The following sahih hadith gives another example of this:

    Book 38, Number 4349:

    Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:

    A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah (peace be upon him) declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.

  19. says

    Being a Christian, an atheist, etc. in Pakistan is a true living hell. The most unsignificant move can be perceived as blasphemy. It is quite simple: everything is blasphemy.

    Why are we letting Muslims immigrate in the West when we see what is going on in Irak, in Egypt, in Pakistan to Non-Muslims? Are the Governments of the countries in the West dum or what? It is easy to see that Islam cannot coexist with other religions. We must like troubles. It makes me mad, really mad!

  20. says

    I’m so sick of this evil death-cult, Islam! And on top of that I read about educated White young British females converting to Islam – what are they thinking for goodness sake! One day – let them live in Saudi, Iran or Pakistan as an independent woman, would be a great lesson to them! I pray to my Lord Christ Jesus to save us from this evil, Islam, everyday!

  21. says

    For a start, I hope the Republican Party will defeat for good, that suspected most cunning Islamic Trojan Horse, Hussein Obama, who are forcing Judeo-Christian and Western civilization to kneel down like SLAVES to Islam! See – Bill Warner, Director, Center for the Study of Political Islam :
    Tend My Flock
    January 3, 2011

    If you ask a Christian leader why he does not speak out on Islam, you get some version of: My duty is to tend to my flock, to help them become better Christians. My job is not to oppose Islam….What would it mean if a Christian leader tried to follow Christ’s example of knowing the subject? It would mean that the leader would know the Koran and the Sunna of Mohammed. He would be able to comment on the great themes of the Koran and know it as a story. He would know the Sira, the life of Mohammed, and have detailed knowledge of the Hadith. He would know the history of the Christian dhimmi. He would know what happened to the Seven Churches of Asia mentioned in Revelation. He would know how Egypt, Turkey, North Africa, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon all went from being Christian to Islamic. This is not difficult work for a scholar. It can be done in six months with present books. Just reading Mark Durie and Bat Ye’or’s The Third Choice, would give them a running start. He would know more than 90% of all Christian leaders.
    Once you get your knowledge, you need one more quality, courage. A leader would stand in public and discuss the truth of the facts of Islam. According to political correctness and multiculturalism, that would not be nice, since someone might disapprove or become upset. Nice people do not confront others. That is not nice. The modern Christian prefers the Gospel of Nice to the Gospel of Christ. As a result of the Gospel of Nice, the Christian leader does not need courage….. (at – http://www.politicalislam.com/)

  22. says

    I write to honor the ultimate sacrifice of the governor of Pakistan’s Punjab province, Salman Taseer. It will be significant to follow the evolutionary process that flows from this event. How does Pakistan respond to such an event? What percentages will still oppose the blasphemy law, what percentage will strive to promote it?

    Given the serious vetting that this security guard should have gone through the event has to be acknowledged as supporting the claim that a Muslim (only some Muslims?) can become inspired by a Jihadi perspective.

    I would think that it is very important for the long term accuracy of our analysis to observe and measure “social scientifically” the percentages of the above responses so as to build future plans based on the most accurate conclusions possible. It would be very, very, very easy to spin this into lines of thinking that have led to pogroms and genocide in the worst cases. Admittedly, this could also be an indication of the need to take significant precautions.

  23. says

    Allen West, for President! Maybe then the many African-American and Hispanic voters can be woken up from their ‘euphoria’ to how cunning Hussein Obama is ENSLAVING them, as the rest of us, to Islam! See – http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/01/allen_west_knows_sharia.html
    January 04, 2011
    Allen West Knows Sharia
    Andrew G. Bostom
    …..Below are extracts from an interview West gave with Frank Gaffney, subsequently, after his election to Congress, this past November 2, 2010…..Allen West’s appointment to the Armed Services Committee bodes well for an honest re-evaluation of our current delusional policies. West has indicated his desire, specifically, to review our self-destructive COIN-based rules of engagement — which ignore the jihadist enemy’s Sharia-based threat doctrine. Perhaps that conversation will now extend to the domestic threat as well, under the aegis of Congressman Peter King, who claims to want to examine the sources of “Muslim radicalization” in America. Hope springs eternal!….
    WEST: Well, I haven’t had the opportunity to sit down with all of the new members, giving all the new members of the freshmen class a phone call to talk to them. I think one of the critical things that we must come together is that there is an infiltration of the Sharia practice into all of our operating systems in our country as well as across Western civilization. So we must be willing to recognize that enemy. We cannot have a national security strategy that does not recognize it in specific and understand its goals and objectives. So once again, we can tailor you know our internal goals and objectives as far as our security systems, our political systems, economic systems, our cultural and educational systems, so that we can thwart this. And it comes back to one of those strategic goals that you mentioned, reducing the sphere of influence of this Sharia you know ideology that is tied into Islam. But I think that is our most threatening part, is the Sharia philosophy.

  24. says

    Assassination has been a key institution in the Islamic polity since Islam first made itself felt politically. It is not an aberration. Ultimately it is the Umma who enforce Sharia and such assassinations are seen as part of the legal system.

  25. says

    Others have already weight in on the global distribution of cousin marriages/inbreeding, as illustrated in http://consang.net/index.php/Global_prevalence . The highest rates (greater than 50%) are in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, but in general the highest percentage are in Muslim countries.

    To DefenderofIslam: I would think that, being from Pakistan, you should be concerned about being the product of generation upon generation of inbreeding. Genetic defects of all kinds, ranging from physical deformities to mental retardation, are well known results of this abominable practice, and are the reasons it is against the law in civilized societies.

  26. says

    http://bahai-library.com/sohrab_vs_us-nsa_1941

    United States National Spiritual Assembly vs. Mirza Ahmad Sohrab

    The plaintiffs have no right to a monopoly of the name of a religion.

    The defendants, who purport to be mambers of the same religion, have an equal right to use the name of the religion in connection with their own meetings, lectures, classes and other activities. No facts are alleged in the complaint to indicate that the defendants have been guilty of any act intended or calculated to deceive the public into believing that their meetings, lectures or book shop are identified with or affiliated with the meetings, lectures, etc., and book shop of the plaintiffs.

    Defendants have the absolute right to practice Bahá’ísm, to conduct meetings, collect funds and sell literature in connection therewith, and to conduct a book shop under the title ‘Bahá’í Book Shop.’

    ========

    I like that one…

    Baha’i are like Scientologists in their zeal to control the message…

    Gee, I wonder why?

  27. says

    http://bahai-library.com/imbrie_consideration_bahai_religion

    Even to the casual student of Islam it is obvious that Mohammedanism is in hopeless decay, more hopeless than was Catholicism before the Reformation. If it is to be saved at all, there must arise an oriental reformer who will denounce the Islamic `indulgences’ as did Luther the Papal ones.

    The disinterest of Bahá’ís, though in origin a Moslem sect, in the reform of Allah’s faithful is a somewhat discouraging omen. Their striving for an all-expansive universality, though comprehensible, has so diluted their force in Persia as to diminish greatly their beneficent influence. One is constrained to remark that if they had concentrated less on Europe and America and more on morally bankrupt Persia their efforts would be more praiseworthy.

    On the other hand, it must not be forgotten that Islam, a Semitic religion that has never been adapted to Aryan needs as has Judaism through the teachings of Christ, has always remained a misfit on this light-hearted, imaginative Aryan people, who, to escape the yoke of the Caliphate, created that absurd schism called Shiism.

    Failing therefore the ideal remedy for Persia’s present religious decadence, namely a national renaissance of their great historic religion Zoroastrianism, Bahá’ísm, in which there are signs of a Protestant Reformation, and

    [page 15]

    which after all is of purely Persian origin, may prove itself to be the best solution under the circumstances.

    I have the honor to be, Sir, Your obedient servant,

    (signed) W. Smith Murray

    =========

  28. says

    Shot in the back by one of his own bodyguards. The cowardice of these little shiites is amazing. And now a group of “moderate” islamic legal scholars has announced that anyone who supports Taseer is also guilty of blasphemy. The offense against humanity that is islam needs to be expunged from the world.

  29. says

    Being “mostly pro-Islam” isn’t enough for some of the purists. If you are not 110%, your survival is not assured.

  30. says

    Maliki is related to Iran:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nouri_al-Maliki

    Iran is taking over whatever she can in the Middle East and the Muslim world in general, but some liberals believe sanctions and pathetic carrots will make the ambitious regime forget its imperialist designs and quietly submit to a world order where the kafir US is on top, and other “liberals” believe it’ll actually be a good thing since “anti-imperialist” Iran will become a counter-balance to the evil imperialist global designs of Big Satan and Little Satan.

  31. says

    “They might rotate people in and out. Without a pattern of movement, it’s hard to plan an attack.”

    During Stalin’s rule of the U.S.S.R., when Stalin would go to his country dacha for the week-end, five identical ZIL limousines, curtains drawn, would pull up in front of his office. Stalin might get in any one of them, but no one knew which one until Stalin actually got into it. When he did, the Kremlin gates were thrown open, traffic on all the boulevards was halted, and the motorcycle and armored-car escort followed by all five ZILs exited at speed, and raced through the streets of Moscow. Any waiting assassin had one chance in five of targetting the right ZIL.

  32. says

    Zulu: happy New Year! people who convert from one religion to another are just about the most pathetic of all people. they are trying to find something that is wrong within themseloves such as self esteem and try to find it in a different religion.
    M

  33. says

    Zulu a method for converting “people of the book” laid down in Islam is that Muslim males are “allowed” to marry Christian and Jewish (but specially Christian) females. The females may not convert, but almost invariably do in the male dominated family.
    The opposite is strictly forbidden. Muslim females may not marry non-muslim males and this is enforced by “honour” killings.
    Thus you see Muslim males actively pursuing white females on the Internet with considerable success. The females are vulnerable and ignorant of the true nature of Islam.
    For many muslim immigrants this is a free ticket to the west.

  34. says

    I hope it’s not much to worry about really – most of these women are doing it to get attention, ‘oh look, I’m so cool in my hijab’ (not really) the pleasures of being different, stared at, plus of course the sense of superiority they feel. (You’ll note none of them ever seem to adopt the full face veil – then nobody could SEE them !) A fashionable fad – if that vacuous little twit Lauren Booth was to appear in Islamabad, or Ryadh or just about anywhere in the ME dressed like the pic, boy, would the silly cow get a nasty shock.

    They’re always have been, and always will be, those who are lazy minded, naive and gullible, and islam provides them with the perfect bolt hole. They will never, never, never have to think for themselves again – what a relief !

    However, as Dumbledoresarmy has eloquently pointed out on several occasions, there is also the issue of muslim men deliberately targetting these women. The silly creatures fall for it just like Jemima Puddleduck, and usually experience a nasty awakening.

  35. says

    Max, you phrase the question as either/or when it could be both. But this act are not within the minutiae of Islamic doctrine, as you put it. It is front and centre.

    Leaving aside whether the violent votaries can or should even try to pin a blasphemy rap on one who blasphemes not their God but a mere mortal, the killer Qadri was entirely Koranically-correct with his statement: “Salman Taseer is a blasphemer and this is the punishment for a blasphemer”.

    The BBC were in their turn entirely dhimmically-correct in not pointing out this vital Muhammad-inspired motivation.

    As were the ABC and TVNZ in not pointing out that men who marry and have sex with nine-year-old girls are simply following their Perfect Prophet’s example:

    http://tvnz.co.nz/world-news/girl-using-forced-marriage-inspire-others-2-08-video-3992106

  36. says

    I am not sure of the IQ of your average jihadist. Really their understanding of the religion is irrelevant. What is relevant is the mufti or imam’s understanding of the religion since they are the ones who are pulling the strings anyway. The average muslim is a borg who only does as instructed.

  37. says

    It is clanism all the way.

    I remember when I first studied it in my early twenties, with a lot of experience, of a number of other religious traditions, under my belt. I was quite taken aback by it.

    So I think your observation very insightful.

  38. says

    These people in pakistan are, certainly, probably, ones in positions like this, illiterate, and INBRED ! They don’t think for themselves, because as you say islam produces a pathological disturbance in their brains, and if you add that to generations of first cousin marriages, and the imam says hop to it, ‘boom !’

    A couple of people however, have evinced some scepticism, ie: that he did it of his own volition, and the fact that, as London Jim says, the rest of the team didn’t shoot him, makes me sceptical also. There could very well be a political motive in this unconnected with blasphemy laws, which are simply given as the excuse.

  39. says

    Miriam

    you sweepingly state that anyone who converts from one religion to another is ‘pathetic’ and lacking in self-esteem.

    How about those who apostasise from Islam?

    Canon Patrick Sookhdeo, who apostasised from Islam 41 years ago and became a Christian, doesn’t strike me as ‘pathetic’ nor as lacking in confidence and a sense of who he is as a man. He made a good marriage, raised a number of children, and managed to free his own parents from Islam, too (they initially rejected him from the family, but after some years, converted to Christianity themselves).

    Nor do Mark Gabriel, nor Daniel Shayesteh and his wife, nor any number of other ex-Muslims who are now Christians, for example Magdi Cristiano Allam and ‘Hannah Shah’, author of the book ‘The Imam’s Daughter’, strike me as ‘pathetic’ or lacking in self-esteem.

  40. says

    “people who convert from one religion to another are just about the most pathetic of all people. they are trying to find something that is wrong within themseloves such as self esteem and try to find it in a different religion.”

    From an atheistic point of view it’s seems like replacing one irrational system with another, but I have to say that I’ve changed my mind after listening to Mosab Hassan Yousef, son of a Hamas founder, who converted to Christianity. It was something very profound in his case. He said he doesn’t define himself exactly as a Christian, but as a follower of Jesus (I have no idea if he formally converted or if it was solely an internal process). He said the sentence that has shaken his world and started his process of conversion was “Love thy enemy”. Then I understood. In his environment this idea or anything remotely like it completey doesn’t exist, it’s totally alien to Hamas ideology that fuses Islamism and Nazism, so it was a completely new idea for him, a revolutionary earth shattering idea.

    This story made me rethink things. I don’t believe Jesus was the son of god (I hope nobody here kills me for blasphemy LOL), but he did say some inspiring things. Westerners are so used to these 2 millennia old ideas that they take them for granted and can’t appreciate the impact they might have on someone who was never exposed to them. Jesus is the antithesis of Muhammad and “Love thy enemy” is the antithesis of Islam. I can definitely understand how these words could sound divine to someone like Mosab Hassan Yousef, like a great light that shines into the depth of darkness. As an atheist you may call it the light of love, but it’s understable that people that were brought up in a very religious environment, where the belief in god is natural and present at all times, will experience the light of love as the light of god. It’s a great discovery for them.

    There’s a Palestinian Arab that after converting from Islam to Christianity founded a Palestinian Zionist organization. He said Yeshua made him love the Jewish people and that Yeshua turned enemies, Arabs and Jews, into best friends. A miracle! :-)

    So I changed my mind about it. It doesn’t so much matter to me now if god factually exists or not, but it’s the essence or the message that people get from it that has a capacity to heal and save lives by awakening their loving nature that is completely missing and suppressed in the dark insanity of something like Hamas that makes people kill themselves to take the lives of as many enemies of Allah as possible. It makes them regain their humanity.

  41. says

    Mobamad, those inbreeding facts don’t surprise me a bit. I just watched a show on a “freak” circus in Indonesia, and “snake boy” had a condition caused by consanguinity–inbreeding. While West Virginia may get the jokes, inbreeding is reality for most Muslims, hence, no jokes. Get it? Political correctness censors facts, while permitting old stereotypes and exagerations. Another one: Brits supposedly have bad teeth (see Austin Powers movies). Does anyone really think theirs are worse than in Islamic countries?

  42. says

    Jew are well know in history for First Cousin marraige also than the jewish people have some gentic illness cause by too much inbreeding also. In New York State there is no ban on first cousin marriage at all due to jewish influement in the state.

  43. says

    Now I don’t normally bring up NWO theories but I think we may be on to something here.

    Part of this NWO theory consists of a new age application of Eugenics. The elites are dumbing down the masses with drugs, etc. to get their master race. The theory is that stupid populations are much easier to control. The elites of yesteryear failed and direct Eugenics on themselves, so now they plan on an indirect approach. If they can’t elevate themselves, then the next best thing is just to lower all of us relatively.

    Many of us wonder, “What the Hell have our leaders been thinking for the last 3 decades?” … “How could this demographic disaster be an accident?” … perhaps it is malfeasance to borrow a word from Frank Gaffney, perhaps what we have been witnessing is reverse Eugenics, planed and executed by NWO …. just saying it fits with the population replacement theories that get bantered about.

  44. says

    Yeah, I agree, London.

    Of course, he could have just “wimped out” on the suicide end of the bargain, but this twangs my bs meter too, since as Gravenimage notes above, the assassin was merely exacting the proscribed Koranic punishment for apostacy.

    Why not go all out and get the “slay and be slain” award with multiple houris slathered in cheap Bahraini perfume???

    Twangs like a cheap imitation of a Gibson banjo left out
    in the sun for a few days…

  45. says

    I was less than impressed with Miriam’s comment too. To move from one religion to another doesn’t necessarily mean anything except that you have noticed that your previous religion doesn’t satisfy you morally and/or intellectually, but the new one does. It’s no more pathetic per se than moving from a religion to atheism or agnosticism, or for an atheist/agnostic to adopt a religion. However as someone who has left Islam I can well understand Miriam’s dislike of all religions and I applaud her for opening her mind to the truth about what kind of religion Islam is.

  46. says

    so Bunty: from your analysis here apparently Islam is not that bad. it is offering something that is why 100000 british are converting to it!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  47. says

    Nope, they just _think_ it offers them something: a way out of rampant consumerism, promiscuity etc, because they haven’t bothered doing any research. Does that mean absolutely everybody who converts from one religion to another is pathetic? I don’t think so.

  48. says

    ‘Miriam’

    I don’t believe you when you claim not to know who any of these people are. You can find them all by using google.

    Most of them have been mentioned *in this very forum* by me or others, with background explanation and sometimes links to articles, over the past few years.

    Canon Patrick Sookhdeo – observe that although he took a Christian first name at his baptism (perhaps he was originally called ‘Mohammed’ and decided he didn’t want to keep that name because MOhammed was such an awful person?) he kept his Pakistani surname – is the author of four books – ‘Global Jihad’, ‘Faith, Power and Territory’ ‘Islam in Britain’ and ‘Freedom to Believe: Challenging Islam’s Apostasy Law’. ‘Global Jihad’ is an excellent in-depth discussion of the subject, giving lots of information from Islamic sources, which sits very well on my bookshelf next to Mr Spencer’s books. Sookhdeo has also founded a Christian charity, the Barnabas Fund, to support persecuted Christians – mostly those in Islamic countries.

    Daniel Shayesteh – note, again, that he retains his *surname* – is a Persian convert to Christianity. He wrote a book about leaving Islam, called ‘Exodus from Darkness’. He lives in a western country and spends much of his time warning people in the Christian churches about Jihad and Sharia.

    Egyptian-born Magdi Cristiano Allam didn’t *change* his name; he merely added ‘Cristiano’ after his baptism by the Pope in Rome at Easter time, 2008. He is a well-respected journalist for the Italian paper Corriere della Sera.

    ‘Hannah Shah’, a woman who was born into a Pakistani Muslim family in the UK, uses an assumed name because of the fear of Muslim assassins who might otherwise come to murder her so as to punish her for having apostasised from Islam. She lives in hiding in the UK. She has written a book called “The Imam’s Daughter”. She converted from Islam to Christianity within the UK, and is married to an English Christian. She was interviewed by a British newspaper and this interview can be read online; I have mentioned it and linked it here on various occasions.

    ‘Mark Gabriel’ was brought up an Egyptian Muslim and used to teach at Al Azhar. He began to question Islam, and was attacked for so doing, even before he left Islam altogether after reading the Christian Bible. He is the author of an excellent book called ‘Islam and Terrorism’ that has done a good deal to make Christians in various places aware of the jihad doctrine of Islam and the danger that it represents for everyone else. He changed his name to honour the saint who is deemed to have founded the Egyptian church – St Mark – and also for the same reason as Hannah: to make things more difficult for Muslim assassins setting out to enforce the sharia rule that apostates must be killed.

    *No* westerner who has converted to Islam has ever had to flee into hiding for fear people will come and kill them. But plenty of those who have left Islam within the West – whether for Christianity or to become atheists – have either had to change their names and go into hiding, or (if they could afford it) hire bodyguards (Magdi Cristiano Allam and Ayaan Hirsi Ali have to have large security details). Magdi Allam himself has said that there are some thousands of ex-Muslims (now Christian or secular) in Italy, who live in hiding, presumably under assumed names.

    The name changes of those who leave Islam may sometimes be prompted by a desire to leave behind the ugly Islamic associations of names such as ‘Mohammed’, but are more likely prompted by the sharia rule that says that those who leave Islam must be killed.

  49. says

    Two points, Nimrod: First, whatever faults Jews have, they take care of their own and still exceed extraordinarily in reference to the human population at large (contra the pathetic and unproductive Muslim population of the earth—gee, I wonder why—oh yes, it must be do to Western colonialism—blah, blah, blah); Second, Jews are not blowing themselves up in public places, or hijacking airplanes, or making death threats when Judaism is mocked, or sawing off heads, or whining constantly about how they are victims, or… Get my drift?

    Besides, Jews, like Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Zoroastrians, Confucianists, Taoists, Sikhs and so many other religious believers, don’t have to answer to why their religious or ethical founder had sex with a nine-year old girl. Again, get my drift?

    No? Well, let me spell it out for you. Mohammed was a fraud. He was a psychopath and sexual pervert. And you, and another billion plus deluded human beings, have banked your convictions on a deeply warped man, whose life, the more and more it is revealed to the human population at large, will become the subject of derision for all eternity. Count on it.

  50. says

    Your comment is about as useful as a grenade in a packed church or synagogue. You lob them in, DoI, then typically duck for cover.

    But you do have a partial point in your first sentence. There has been an amount of inbreeding among Jews living in Arab lands. This is summarised in a chapter in “Genetic Disorders Among Arab Populations” (ed Ahmad S Teebi 2010) which reviewed “the genetic disease profile of the major Jewish communities that have emigrated to Israel from Arab countries. […] In most cases, these frequencies reflect the relative genetic isolation of Jewish communities from each other and from their respective Arab host populations.” (p.698). The authors note this isolation has been especially prevalent in Yemen, Kurdish areas, parts of Iraq and Iran, Morocco and Libya.

    It can be safely assumed that a high degree of Muslim persecution and restriction of movement has been a major contributing factor to this inbreeding in lands that were settled by Jews long before the Muslim hordes arrived in their midst.

    Your second sentence is just plain ridiculous. About a third of all states have not yet outlawed cousin marriage, most of them on the East coast. Legal inertia has largely accounted for their slowness in getting into line with the more recently settled parts of the USA.

    As one writer has put it, looking at those states which have banned cousin marriage, “western states are disproportionately represented, reflecting the fact that either as territories or newly admitted states, they were writing their marriage codes from scratch and hence prompted to explicitly confront the issue. For the same reason, these states tended to be the first to prohibit cousin marriage.”

    So DoI, could you explain with at least some evidence why NY stands out separately from the surrounding states that have likewise failed to ban cousin marriages? Simply parroting your master’s example “It’s the Joos!” no longer cuts it, at least in this forum.

  51. says

    Re. the floods in Eastern Australia (which have broken century-old records, in a couple of places).

    No, I’m fine where I am.

    I do have a sister living in one of the flooded towns; but she and her husband, when they bought their house, bought a house on the high ground, so the water didn’t even come into their garden. *They* stayed high and dry; the only thing they have to watch out for is snakes looking for a dry spot.

  52. says

    No Reasonable person can dismiss the overall awesomeness of Jesus as a guide to living life…

    That’s why real Atheists who value reason are Pro-Jesus and anti-mohammad based on empirical factors alone..

    I don’t know what a pro-mohammad Atheist thinks Reason means?

  53. says

    Reflecting on Miriam’s comment I would conclude that there should be no Jews, Christians, Hindus or Buddhists, etc. An alternative perspective is that people change (and possibly only change) their religion when they move to what they perceive as something better? If we think of religions as our “mental software operating systems”, then like with my computer’s OS’s I think very carefully but will eventually upgrade when there is something much better. I gave up running CPM on my Kaypro “luggable computer” a long, long time ago. (Thank goodness)

    Doom-and-Gloom (D&G) I agree that there is a place to study the “Power of Love” much more, even considering if there are the equivalence of “scientific cause and affect relationships” that explain how this power is nurtured and developed. Greg Mortenson, who has accomplished a great deal by drinking three cups of tea, has won great respect both in this country and among people along the Afghan/Pakistan border who do want to promote the education of girls (admittedly at times at great, great risks to themselves). There is a power of love that I feel in his efforts and it seems to be having an effect, both on the Afghans and among the US military (“Three Cups of Tea” now being required reading for our commanders.

    D&G, you might also find the Bab’i/Baha’i History of interest. These are people who have been standing up in Iran since 1844, and then beginning to spread throughout the Middle East, making the most blasphemous of statements: “That God’s hands are not chained up, that it is possible for a new healing Message to come forth from the Creator that will lead to the Peace and Harmony of the Planet.” Several of the key Baha’i Teachings include:

    “All are of God.” We are all but one human family and God is loving to all.

    “O people of the earth! The first Glad-Tidings which the Mother Book hath, in this Most Great Revelation, imparted unto all the peoples of the world is that the law of holy war hath been blotted out from the Book. Glorified be the All-Merciful, the Lord of grace abounding, through Whom the door of heavenly bounty hath been flung open in the face of all that are in heaven and on earth.  

    The second Glad-Tidings It is permitted that the peoples and kindreds of the world associate with one another with joy and radiance. O people! Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship. Thus hath the day-star of His sanction and authority shone forth above the horizon of the decree of God, the Lord of the worlds.”

    (Baha’u’llah, Tablets of Baha’u’llah, p. 21)

    Eventually for His efforts Baha’u’llah was consigned in 1868 to the Abu-Graib of its Day for the Sultan of the Ottoman Empire – the Penal Colony of Akka, just North of Haifa, Israel. He was supposed to receive the harshest of treatment and be held under the strictest conditions for life for breaking Islamic traditions and laws.

    After nine years through the power of Wisdom and Love the Mufti of Akka, the leading Muslim cleric of that city, went to Baha’u’llah, then under house arrest, and begged Him for an hour to walk out of the prison. Baha’u’llah did walk out of the prison and Baha’is have been working to bring together people of all Faiths in their love for the tremendous and beautifully Creative matrix we are a part of.

    Baha’u’llah’s Son, ‘Abdu’l-Baha, demonstrated a life of love and service to even the angriest and harshest of their captors or citizens of Akka. A reflection of ‘Abdu’l-Baha’s encouragement of love are the following statements:

    “Wherefore must the loved ones of God associate in affectionate fellowship with stranger and friend alike, showing forth to all the utmost loving-kindness, disregarding the degree of their capacity, never asking whether they deserve to be loved. In every instance let the friends be considerate and infinitely kind. Let them never be defeated by the malice of the people, by their aggression and their hate, no matter how intense. If others hurl their darts against you, offer them milk and honey in return; if they poison your lives, sweeten their souls; if they injure you, teach them how to be comforted; if they inflict a wound upon you, be a balm to their sores; if they sting you, hold to their lips a refreshing cup.”

    (Abdu’l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu’l-Baha, p. 24)

    The Baha’i Authors have been engaging the power of the pen for some 160 years. The Baha’i Teachings are not totally pacifistic as the use of force is supported for the protection of the defenseless. Most critically though, they suggest that the cornerstone of peace will be the harmonizing of the religions, examining the most essential and core elements of reality that life is to be lived with joy and happiness and that all can, if we so choose, work together in mutual assistance and cooperation.

    Guns and bombs, no matter how smart, will not bring about the peace and well being of the planet. A new springtime will emerge from fresh new ideas shared and considered over three cups of tea?

  54. says

    “I don’t know what a pro-mohammad Atheist thinks Reason means?”

    Maybe they like the idea of subjugating or killing Christians, Jews and polytheists. Maybe they think that this way they will only have one religion to battle, so the battle would be easier…

    Really, I don’t know any atheist that is pro Mohammad, but I’ve heard Pat Condell complaining that some atheists accused him of racism for speaking about Islam the way he does, though he’s vehement also about other religions and religion in general. I think they are the racists because they employ different standards for domestic religions and foreign religions. If Islam was a domestic religion no doubt it would have been their primary target nowadays, just like it is for Condell. There is no other religion nowadays that produces anything even remotely close to the endless stream of atrocities committed by Muslims all over the world. How can it possibly matter that most of them are dark? There are other foreign religions practiced mostly by non-whites that have immigrated to the west at roughly the same time. There are many Hindus and Sikhs in the UK, so if Condell is a racist why doesn’t he dedicate the same level of time and attention to Buddhists or Hindus or Sikhs?

  55. says

    I think guns and bombs will have to come first.

    The thing about both the message of Jesus and the Bahai message you cited is that they only work if the other side has a similar enough frame of mind, because otherwise your actions will be misinterpreted. For instance, Israel got rocket attacks for 5 years before unilaterally withdrawing from Gaza. The withdrawal was not because we ran away because of the rockets. There was an understanding that it’s impossible to get to a peace agreement with the Arabs because they want not just a state next to Israel, but to replace Israel with an Arab Muslim state. The government thought that if we just pull out of Gaza and be out of their hair the fire would cease or diminish, and if that experiment had worked out it would have probably been implemented also in Judea & Samaria. Problem was that the other side didn’t understand what motivated Israel, they thought it was weakness, they thought Hamas just drove us out, so the fire increased ten fold and Hamas won the elections for parliament.

    The withdrawal from Lebanon was also misunderstood as a victory for Hizballah which encouraged Hamas to follow in Hizaballah’s footsteps. They didn’t understand it was a tactical decision. Israel was in Lebanon for security reasons, not because we wanted the land. And the calculation was that it doesn’t worth it. It wasn’t a Hizabllah victory in the sense that it changed the regional power balance, but that was how it was interpreted by many people in the Middle East. The problem is they think then they can drive us out of Tel Aviv as well. They think their adavantage is that they love death as much as we love life.

    They often misread our intentions. Our desire for peace is interpreted as weakness and surrender to force which encourages them to continue the same way until ultimate victory. The concept of compromise seems to be foreign to both the Arab and the Muslim mindsets. They don’t understand that if you left Gaza it doesn’t mean you’re going to leave Tel Aviv. They misread your desires and intentions. They are total and uncompromising, so they assume you are the same, so if you left Gaza it can only be because you had no other choice, because you were defeated, so they conclude that continuing the same way will drive you out of Tel Aviv too.

    If you’ll turn the other cheek you’ll become a dhimmi. Dhimmi is someone who turns the other cheek because he has no choice. They will usually not interpret it as an act of love, but as weakness. They need to dominate – that is true for both Arabs and Muslims. The Arabs force their identity and culture on all other peoples in the Middle East, to the point of forbidding and even outlawing the native languages. Over time they systemtically eradicate all other religions and identities, and they must rule all the land, they must be on top, anything else is an unbearable humilliation. They believe they’re entitled to it. When this kind of mentality meets the mentality of turning the other cheek it might evoke confusion, love and kindness, but I think it will more often result in the perfect sado-mazo match.

    I experienced it also on a personal level from the school bullies. If I turned the other cheek I got slapped on the other cheek as well. I was a nerd with nothing whatsoever to do with athletics, but I became very good at running… Though not always good enough. One day my cousin came to visit us. He was a big strong boy, though a good one. We went downstairs to play and the usual bully came and started harassing me as usual. My cousin gave him a good beating. Ever since that day when the bully was picking on me I told him I’m gonna call my cousin and he left me alone. That definitely brought a lot of peace to my life because before that I didn’t dare to go out to play because I was his usual target – the only one who didn’t hit back.

    People always bring up Gandhi as an example of a successful non-violent struggle, but they don’t understand that it had worked because it was Britain and in Britain there was already an anti-imperialist movement, the people were evolving in a more humane direction. If Gandhi had done the same thing in Syria or Iraq he would have been imprisoned for a very long time if not shot dead.

    I think Judaism is more practical. The Jewish tradition says that god gave us laws to live by – live by and not die by. According to Judaism if someone puts a gun in your hand and tells you to shoot an innocent person or else he will kill you, you are supposed to do nothing – you’re not allowed to kill him even if it costs you your life because your life doesn’t worth more than his (this is, of course, an ideal – in the moment of truth even the most pious Jew might fail). But if someone is coming to kill you you should kill him first, to prevent him from killing you. So intent matters.

  56. says

    “I think Judaism is more practical.”

    Not true. If one has to live by all the kosher rules and everything, life will be a nightmare. And don’t forget judaism also calls for stoning of adulterers and eye for eye. Many of muslim laws were basically copied from the jews of medina.
    Reformed judaism is of course, better and more practical.
    There are certainly cases when non violent struggle will not be of use. Dictators need to be fought perhaps with weapons. But where it is practical it should be used instead of resorting to violence.
    Gandhian principle is not simply turning the other cheek. It is a conscience based resistance against injustice using non violence as the weapon. It requires a lot more courage and moral fortitude – it is a lot more difficult to take a slap and stand your ground without giving an inch than to simply retaliate.

  57. says

    Good one, D-and-G!

    There are myths and there are myths. Some are true – in the sense that they convey, or help us understanding a general truth, and some are simply falsehood, invention and fabrication. The myth of Hizballah’s, or Hamas’ “victory” in the South Libanon and Gaza belongs to the latter category. What is unusual about the Arab moslem mind is not so much that it produces a myth the moment there is “need for one”, but that the myth becomes an article of faith the moment it is released. The moslem mentality is of a bully forever caught between the need to humiliate and dominate the other and the fear of being exposed as weaker, or in any way inferior to the other. The bully can’t survive loss of face, so he needs to continuously produce masks, or myths.

  58. says

    Good morning/Shalom Doom-and-gloom,

    Your thoughtful analysis of Israel tactical challenges is appreciated and something for me to reflect on. I would invite you to consider another perspective: Is Baha’u’llah, through the power of His Words and of His life in stepping unwaveringly into the public arena of Tehran, Baghdad, Constantinople and finally Akka and Haifa demonstrating a process that no amount of persecution by both the Shah of Iran or the Ottoman Sultan could touch or overpower? Was He setting in motion a new process akin to Moses standing up to and ultimately prevailing over Pharaoh? Is there a correlation between Baha’u’llah coming to Akka in 1868 AD and processes that were set in motion for the return of the Jews to Israel?

    If there is truth in these possibilities then might the Hand of the Creator again be at work in the World and a new spiritual authority that supersedes the Qur’an be set in motion that lifts us far above these very precise but ultimately small points (in the big scheme of things) of contention? For do we not all love this tremendous Creative process we are a part of and from that love we can build towards a common way to share the planet together? If there is indeed such a new spiritual authority then all bets are off as to whose side God is on and we need to all closely examine how the Hand of Destiny is at work in the World and where it is taking us?

    You are very familiar with Israel. If you are living there I suggest you go to Haifa and check out the Baha’i Gardens and talk to the people there. You might find http://www.bahai.org and http://www.bahaullah.org of interest.

    The first Baha’is (then seen as Bab’is) fought back against the Shah’s armies and were ultimately slaughtered. The Faith went underground but continued to grow and flourish through educational processes and defending itself in judicial systems (as much as possible) and the court of public opinion.

    We are in a very large planetary re-education process which will take time. Guns and bombs were required to defeat Hitler but greater wisdom was required to create an enduring peace in Europe after WWII. Wars cannot last forever whereas the education of the human mind, heart and spirit will go on into the far reaches of time?

  59. says

    No, orthodox jews are reformed today and ignore the religious strictures that call for stoning. But you must acknowledge that raw judaism (without reformation) is no more practical then any other unreformed religion because of such strictures. That was all the point I was making.

  60. says

    Dear grungyolvan

    Baha’is see the Station of each Messenger of God to be incredibly lofty, beyond human comprehension. They are the pure reflection of the Mind and Will of the Creator at that point in time and space. That they seem to differ in the intensity of their Message is a function of the capacities humanity at the times of their appearance. In honoring Christ Baha’u’llah writes:

    XXXVI. Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence  86  exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

    We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.

    Leprosy may be interpreted as any veil that interveneth between man and the recognition of the Lord, his God. Whoso alloweth himself to be shut out from Him is indeed a leper, who shall not be remembered in the Kingdom of God, the Mighty, the All-Praised. We bear witness that through the power of the Word of God every leper was cleansed, every sickness was healed, every human infirmity was banished. He it is Who purified the world. Blessed is the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him.

    (Baha’u’llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha’u’llah, p. 85)

  61. says

    The Baha’is either manage their administrative process and its Message or it would quickly fall into the chaos and confusion that now confronts Islam. (imho)