I've been harshly criticized for writing here that Islamic supremacists are trying to take advantage of the "Jasmine Revolution" and impose Sharia in Tunisia; now you can add Time Magazine to the ranks of the greasy Islamophobes.
"How Tunisia's Once-Suppressed Islamists Are Re-Emerging," by Rania Abouzeid in Time, January 21 (thanks to Maxwell):
[...] As Tunisians revel in their newfound freedom, the long-suppressed Islamists, like everyone else, are trying to figure out what role they can and want to have in the new Tunisia. Ennahdha leaders -- including the party's exiled founder Rachid Ghannouchi, who is waiting to return from London -- have been quick to reject fears that they espouse, let alone want to impose, a radical Islamic view.Many Tunisians interviewed by TIME in the week since Ben Ali's spectacular fall, say there's room for everyone, as long as their political agendas are clear. "We don't want to live in a new dictatorship whether it claims to have heavenly or earthly credibility," says Amene, 22, a university student who has been protesting in Tunis's main Avenue Habib Bourguiba every day for weeks. A black-and-white keffiyeh, the symbol of Palestinian resistance, around her neck, the Chinese-language major says she doesn't want the Islamists to be sidelined. "On the contrary. I think everyone can be represented but we want fair and real elections." (The idea of a new beginning and a clean slate was reinforced on Friday when Prime Minister Mohamed Ghannouchi he would step from office and leave politics as soon as new elections were held.)
During a 30-minute sermon, the imam of Al-Quds mosque urged worshippers to take advantage of "this current change" and vote. He didn't suggest who they should vote for, but cautioned that this opportunity should not be squandered. "Our future is in our hands," he said. "The [Arab] regimes don't want us to succeed, they want us to fail so they can tell their people 'look at how Tunis has failed.' We must accept each other and unite, because there is strength in unity. This is our country."
Many of the hundreds of men streaming out of Al-Quds Mosque on Friday, some clean-shaven in sharp business suits, others with chin-length beards and no moustaches, were all eager to stress national unity and warn against attempts to sow division. "Tunisia needs all of its children, even some of those in the RCD," says Rida, 32, using the initials of the ruling Constitutional Democratic Rally. "We don't have extremism, people like to frighten others with labels," says Shawki, 34. Still, he follows up with a view that might give pause to some Tunisians. "God has given us our constitution, the Koran. Give me the Koran and the Sunna [sayings of the Prophet]," he says.
The worshippers claim that in a bid to stifle the influence of the mosques, Ben Ali restricted their operating hours to 30 minutes a day, five times a day during prayer times. Abdel Kouki, 57, says he wants the "liberation of the mosques." Former U.S President George W. Bush was responsible for sowing fear of Islam, he says, a view Ben Ali enthusiastically propagated to clamp down on opponents. "We are not backward terrorists," Kouki says. "Muslims don't have to have blue eyes to be modern."...
these people need to be careful what they wish for aka koran as their constitution, with sharia at their heels, soon iranian /sowdi style sharia will come to haunt them.
"Muslims don't have to have blue eyes to be modern."...
No you don't, you only need some mascara...just like your prophet..ess!!!
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2011/01/prophetess-of-islam.html
They have no other ideological context to fall back on other that Islam, unfortunately. All we can do is sit back and watch them fall back into the 7th century ... and perhaps extrapolate by example the future stability of our own Republics, and freedom of our children.
I've been harshly criticized for writing here that Islamic supremacists are trying to take advantage of the "Jasmine Revolution" and impose Sharia in Tunisia; now you can add Time Magazine to the ranks of the greasy Islamophobes.
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This may not have started out as an "Islamic" revolution—but Islam is an inevitable factor sooner and later anywhere the Muslim world.
More:
Many Tunisians interviewed by TIME in the week since Ben Ali's spectacular fall, say there's room for everyone, as long as their political agendas are clear. "We don't want to live in a new dictatorship whether it claims to have heavenly or earthly credibility," says Amene, 22, a university student who has been protesting in Tunis's main Avenue Habib Bourguiba every day for weeks. A black-and-white keffiyeh, the symbol of Palestinian resistance, around her neck, the Chinese-language major says she doesn't want the Islamists to be sidelined.
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Boy, that sure *sounds* "democratic" and "inclusive", doesn't it? Unfortunately, "Islamists" are never content to be one group among many. Theirs is a supremacist agenda, by definition.
More:
The worshippers claim that in a bid to stifle the influence of the mosques, Ben Ali restricted their operating hours to 30 minutes a day, five times a day during prayer times. Abdel Kouki, 57, says he wants the "liberation of the mosques." Former U.S President George W. Bush was responsible for sowing fear of Islam, he says, a view Ben Ali enthusiastically propagated to clamp down on opponents. "We are not backward terrorists," Kouki says. "Muslims don't have to have blue eyes to be modern."...
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The *only* reason Tunisia is as comparatively "modern" as it has been is *because* Islam has been curbed in just these ways. It's hard to know if the speaker here is engaging in Taqiyya, or is genuinely ignorant of the baleful tendencies of his creed.
The reference to "blue eyes" is grotesque—the Japanese don't have "blue eyes", and no one doubts that they are "modern". Nor do most Chileans, nor most South Koreans, nor most Taiwanese. This is just cheap pandering to the idea that the West associates "modernity" *with race*.
Also, the idea that no one would fear Islam had it not been for George "Islam is a religion of peace" Bush is just grimly laughable.
More:
"We don't have extremism, people like to frighten others with labels," says Shawki, 34. Still, he follows up with a view that might give pause to some Tunisians. "God has given us our constitution, the Koran. Give me the Koran and the Sunna [sayings of the Prophet]," he says.
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As for the reason Tunisia hasn't had "extremism", see above.
As for using the Koran and the Sunna as your "constitution", that can only lead to the horrors of Shari'ah law. It is not giving this a negative "label" that makes this barbaric—it is the nature of Shari'ah law itself.
"I've been harshly criticized for writing here that Islamic supremacists are trying to take advantage of the "Jasmine Revolution" and impose Sharia in Tunisia; now you can add Time Magazine to the ranks of the greasy Islamophobes."
No, you are criticized for saying this about the tunisian revolution:
"The popular uprising there is pro-Sharia and Islamic rule. "
Which it is not as anyone who can read and watch the news knows. But you need it to be about that so you lied to your readers who are unable to take five minutes to check the facts for themselves.
Then Roland Shirk, your new hugh fitzgerald, wrote this:
"The Muslims in Tunisia are demanding that their country be remade under sharia. "
Which is another lie, proof that you are spectacularly blind and deaf to anything which doesnt fit neatly into the jihadwatch narrative. its almost comical:
Tunisians: "we want democracy and freedom!"
Robert Spencer: " clearly these people want shariah and dhimmiditude"
Now you're reduced to quoting al-qaeda or Hut spokesmen who somehow magically become the representatives of the tunisian people.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/01/tunisian-islamic-leader-muslims-are-fed-up-with-these-dictatorial-regimes-and-we-will-not-stop-until.html#comments
We all know you will continue to paint everything that happens in Tunisia as a jihad because you know your readers will not bother to check the facts for themselves.
"They have no other ideological context to fall back on other that Islam, unfortunately."
Indeed. And this is a problem with every single one of the countries with an Islam majority population that is susceptible to revolution. How are such recent innovations as the UN Declaration of Human Rights and the abstract concept of personal freedom supposed to compete with a body of tradition that has stood the 1400 year test of time in the minds of Muslims? So far I haven't seen anyone address this very basic problem realistically.
One of the deficiencies of Leftist, post-Modernist thinking is the underestimation of the power of religion and culture, especially in societies that have not yet modernized either materially or in terms of human rights. The world view of the Left posits that the dominant negative forces responsible for all the ills in the world are racism, Western colonialism and class exploitation, and perhaps to a lesser degree Capitalism. The roles of religion and culture are relegated to being of secondary or tertiary importance, and instances of conflict deriving from these factors are simply interpreted as being due to racism, etc.
The problem (well, one of many problems, actually) with the conceptual foundations of Leftist thinking is that it lacks a metric by which to judge the merits of its oft-times ridiculous assertions. This is frequently seen in the outlandish usage of moral equivalences, such as Robert Spencer == Anwar al-Awlaki for apparently no better reason that they both have been designated by the Left, without proof (i.e., without a metric), as being "haters."
Anyone who has ever read Vladimir Lenin will undoubtedly not only recognize the origins of the concepts of the Left, but will also have been struck by the negative and violent imagery he employs. The psychological profile of the Left is little different from that of Lenin.
I hope that the Jasmine Revolution will not morph into the Crescent Revolution - both figuratively and literally: al-Nahda will probably ban all flowers since they can be used as gifts on Valentine's Day.
Well, flarov222,
Robert didn't lie. If I thought he lied, I would not be on this blog. Also, notice you are free to post your opinion.
Recall that when the Iranian revolution came, the demonstrators who helped kick out the Shah were a broad spectrum of political opinion. They were finessed by Khomeini, who lied about his intentions by masquerading as a democrat, and shoehorned in a hardcore Islamic regime, with all the repressions one could imagine accompanying such a government.
One can listen on NPR, as well as read in Time, that many of the street demonstrators want a democratic, inclusive government. Tunisia is a good test case. Can a country that is majority Islam evolve into a democracy with respect for individual rights? I hope they can. We will be watching. I also am happy that under President Obama, the US is unlikely to interfere with the Tunisian revolution. That way, nobody can claim that whatever turned out is the fault of the US.
"...many of the street demonstrators want a democratic, inclusive government. Tunisia is a good test case. Can a country that is majority Islam evolve into a democracy with respect for individual rights? I hope they can."
Indeed, we all hope the same. But I would not cite either NPR or Time as being good sources of information that accurately assesses political or social realities in Tunisia. They are both well known to ignore important social forces that don't accord with their Leftist Weltanschauung.
As you may have noticed, there is considerable skepticism among JihadWatchers that it will turn out the way you, and all of us, would hope. The reason? Among other things, the absence of a precedent of a revolution in a Muslim majority country that goes in this direction. Can you name one? The concern here is the presence of demonstrably retrograde Islamic forces within the country that would drag it backwards in the direction of becoming an "Islamic Republic," where the primacy of Shariah law is put ahead of the principles enshrined in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. The result, of course, would be an uptick in reports of the usual kind of Muslim mischief of all kinds that we read about here on a daily basis.
I agree that the U.S. should not take overt action in Tunisia, but not for the spineless reason you give that "nobody can claim that whatever turned out is the fault of the US." You know, of course, that no matter how it goes the U.S., and Israel, will be blamed.
But the U.S. could perhaps do what it did NOT do for the Iranian demonstrators, and that is to provide a strong public voice of encouragement for the democratic forces that would establish a government based on the rule of secular law.
In any case, I am not optimistic that a successful transition to a modern form of government will occur in Tunisia, one not hobbled by Shariah or any such nonsense. I'd put the chances of this occurring at less than fifty percent.
"Muslims don't have to have blue eyes to be modern."
I'm so tired of them playing the race card. It's a matter of ideas, not skin color or eyes color. What is modern anyway? Is it using a cell phone and a computer? Modern doesn't tell me anything. The Nazis and Fascists were modern too. The question is if he believes in democracy or sharia law, not if he's modern or not. There are about a billion or more non-whites who have democracy as their political system in their countries, and many other non-whites who would love to have it, but are prevented from having it by their dictatorial regimes. What does it have to do with skin color? Right, you don't have to have blue eyes to want democracy - the question is not what is the color of your eyes, but what are your opinions, what do you believe in and what do you want. Did anybody ever suggest otherwise, except maybe neo-Nazis? Nobody suspects Muslims of being undemocratic because of their varying skin colors, but because of their ideology and because of the abundant evidence coming out of practically every Muslim majority country. If it's about skin color or race, why don't Hindus, Buddhists or East Asians get the same amount of attention? Of course, there is racism and there are anti-Hindu websites, but they are completely marginal. Do you have mass demonstrations and endless discussions in the MSM and the Internet when Hindus want to build a Hindu temple somewhere in New York the way you have about the Ground Zero Mosque? Why not? Because most Hindus are blue eyed blonds? Not quite. So why pretend it's about race?
"A black-and-white keffiyeh, the symbol of Palestinian resistance.."
Resistance to what? Resistance to negotiations for the last 2.5 years? Resistance to peace? Resistance to recognizing Israel as a Jewish state? Resistance to any solution where Israel remains majority Jewish and doesn't turn into the 23rd Arab Muslim state? Resistance to the existence of Israel? Resistance to the existence of Jews?
Islam is not compatible with democracy. Muslims only bow to one master. Allah's (in reality, Mohammed's) laws are superior to man-made laws. All of this is Islamic doctrine. If the goal of this fascist ideology disguised as a religion is to rule the world, it cannot allow
Tunisia to break free.
Back in the day when the Marxist-Leninists were in their ascendancy, the Party leaders were always explaining to the proletarian faithful the difference between Bourgeois concepts and revolutionary Proletarian concepts which went under the same terms -- words such as democracy and freedom. Now we hear that the Tunisian Muslims want democracy and freedom. The erstwhile Marxist-Leninist/Islamist would explain : We mean voting for Islamists (not just anyone), and the freedom to live under Shariah of our own choosing. Not kuffar democracy, not kuffar freedom -- that's entirely different.
One man, one vote, one time.
Islam's (and every other tyranny's) poison pill for "democracy".
Where Islam has power everyone must cower.
You're absolutely right there is no precedent in the Muslim world. Their revolutions always ended in the sharia backyard.
"God has given us our constitution, the Koran. Give me the Koran and the Sunna [sayings of the Prophet]," he says.
That says it all. Let's hope and pray that it will turn out otherwise, but I'm very sceptical. But, of course I'd love to be proven wrong.
In the BBC television news broadcaast on Tunis street demonstrations, I saw clearly that there were, among the other placards, two that had the following text:
Juif Dégage
In English, "Jew Get Out".
Here we go again.
I would very much like to see reasons to believe otherwise, and hope that you can perhaps point to them, alternative facts on the ground as we are anxiously following the development in Tunisia.
Well, the liberal media will surely glorify them. I remember back in 1959 (or was it 58?) when Castro was given the royal treatment.
I recall reading somewhere, just lately, that some of Tunisia's few remaining Jews are already packing up and fleeing home to Israel.
Ah.
Here we are. A quick google using the search terms 'Tunisia Jews making aliyah' turned up two articles from ynet and from Jerusalem Post.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4015884,00.html
20 Jews from Tunisia make aliyah
'Joint operation involving Israeli government ministries, several countries brings six families to Israel; **hundreds more consider fleeing** {my emphasis - dda}'.
http://www.jpost.com/JewishWorld/JewishNews/Article.aspx?id=204347
10 Tunisian Jews make aliyah after violent riots
By GIL SHEFLER
01/19/2011 17:47
'Jewish Agency helps family of 10 move to Israel, while an additional 10 Jews from Tunisia visit until things stabilize at home.
'A Jewish family from Tunisia made aliya on Wednesday, the first to arrive since the outbreak of violent riots in the Mediterranean country, a Jewish Agency for Israel spokesman said.
'According to the JAFI official, the family of 10 had been contemplating immigrating to Israel for a while but the recent political instability was the last straw.
'They were accompanied by 10 Jewish Tunisian youths who had come to tour Israel until things stabilized back home.
"The role of the Jewish Agency for Israel is to facilitate aliya to Israel and if Tunisians want to come they can," the spokesman said.
'Despite the turmoil in Tunisia, so far there's been no sign of large scale emigration by the country's approximate 1,500 Jews.
'The president of Tunisia's Jewish community told The Jerusalem Post on Monday that there have been no attempted attacks on community members of its institutions'
{To which I would add, simply, 'Yet.' - dda}.