Why is Huckabee being summoned for a round of interfaith monologue? He said:
"If the purpose of a church is to push forth the gospel of Jesus Christ, and then you have a Muslim group that says that Jesus Christ and all the people that follow him are a bunch of infidels who should be essentially obliterated, I guess I have a hard time understanding that."
Islam does not "obliterate" Jesus, but rather appropriates Jesus as a messenger of Islam in order to create a place for Muhammad in its narrative. Islamic teachings do seek to do away with central Christian beliefs about Jesus' divinity, message, death, and resurrection, and they make professing those beliefs a cause for persecution under Islamic law.
That latter issue has been known to catch the attention of concerned citizens.
Qur'an 9:29 offers non-believers, including Jews and Christians, the option of conversion, subjugation, or war. So, Christians may not be "obliterated" in one fell swoop, but slowly ("tolerantly," "compassionately") strangled and expected to fade away quietly in a land where they cannot display crosses, propagate their faith, or repair their churches and monasteries.
Those clarifications aside, Huckabee is quite correct in noting the contempt in which Islam holds the religion whose local church would offer its hospitality. It is that contempt which results in the lack of reciprocal respect for non-Muslim religions and the unequal rights to religious freedom seen in Muslim countries.
"Muslims Demand Huckabee Apologize for 'Infidel' Comment," from Fox News, February 21 (thanks to Ken):
A prominent Muslim civil rights group is asking Mike Huckabee, the former Arkansas governor, to apologize for his take on Christian churches that have allowed Muslims to use their worship space.
Apologies: a symbolic form of tribute, but demanded with no less a sense of entitlement. And "Muslim civil rights group" is right. It's the fate of everyone else's civil rights under Sharia that becomes cause for alarm.
Huckabee, who also ran for president in 2008 and is mulling a 2012 bid, said on "Fox and Friends" recently that he did not understand why churches would make that sort of decision.
"If the purpose of a church is to push forth the gospel of Jesus Christ, and then you have a Muslim group that says that Jesus Christ and all the people that follow him are a bunch of infidels who should be essentially obliterated, I guess I have a hard time understanding that," said Huckabee, who has his own show on Fox News.
"Is there a reason to say that the people who donated, who gave, who sacrificed to give that facility really ever intended it to be a place where something that is the antithesis of the gospel of Christ would be presented?" he added.
Well, the ahadith say Jesus will come back to break all the crosses anyway (Sahih Bukhari 3.43.656, among others), and "fight the people in the cause of Islam" (Sunan Abu Dawud 37.4310).
On Monday, the Council on American-Islamic Relations called Huckabee's comments divisive and proposed that he meet with Muslim leaders to discuss commonly misheld views about the religion.
The churches would be better off giving space to Laveyan Satanists, ffs. But no, that wouldn't be the thing, would it? Meanwhile, that form of Satanism, frankly, forbids killing - LaVey forbade murder in his book, and even frowned on hunting. (If you're angry at someone, and want them gone, you simply think nasty thoughts about them. Doesn't do anything, but gee, it is cathartic!) Unlike Islam. So which is better or more compatible? :P
Um, I bought the book on a dare when I was a teenager, and since I'd spent the money on it, I read it.
Please, oh, please, let Mr. Huckabee refuse to apologize and instead go to great length to expose what the muslims really think of Jesus and the role Jesus plays in muslim end time eschatology. The latter message is the one that needs to be heralded from the rooftops...we've had way too many apologies already.
I opposed Huckabee's candidature when he ran, but he's dead right on this. A church is a place where only Christian beliefs ought to be entertained. A synagogue is a place where only Jewish beliefs ought to be. Likewise w/ Hindu temples, Sikh Gurudwaras and other places of worship of other faiths.
If there are Christians indeed stupid (not tolerant, stupid!) enough to lease their church for Muslims to pray, they shouldn't be surprised if that church attendence hits all time lows.
The proper role for Mohammed is the "anti Christ" as properly designated by Huckabee as well as his message of the sword to be raised against all non-Muslims. If we look in the world today, we see this message being carried out by devout Muslims throughout the world. This form of obliteration is properly described by Huckabee and CAIR cannot live with this truth. I see no reason to correct Huckabee's perception by highlighting a key ingredient in Muslim dogma.
Mr.Huckabee must under no circumstance apologize for what he said. This is what the Muslims believe Isa(the Muslim Jesus) does.
"The Muslim Jesus descends and converts the world to Islam, kills the Jews, breaks crosses, declares himself a Muslim and gets married. He dies after 40-years."
You can find more at this site:
http://www.truthnet.org/islam/Islam-Bible/4Islambeliefs/index.htm
Muslims don't like the truth about islam be told. They want to re-educate Mike so that he concurs with their lies. Good that some leader of ours Mike Huckabee has a spine to tell the truth. Apologize - my foot. Let's see when Muslims will apologize for the atrocities and murders they have inflicted since the seventh century. On the contrary they continue their murderous jihad as usual to this day. Let's hope other leaders follow Huckabee!!!
OT
#2821 - Egyptian Children's TV Show: We Must Liberate Jerusalem from the Hands of "the Disgusting Jews"
Nour Al-Khaleejiyah TV (Egypt) - December 29, 2010 - 02:16
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2821.htm
Our church leaders don't know that once Muslims pray in a church or any other place, they consider it a mosque anyway!! Why would any body allow them to pray in place of worship, church, temple, synagogue or gurudwara, is beyond me.
'On Monday, the Council on American-Islamic Relations proposed .......that he (Huckabee) meet with Muslim leaders to discuss commonly misheld views about the religion.'
Misheld views? A strange formulation. Misunderstandings, maybe. Mistaken, perhaps. There's room for discussion there. But 'misheld'.
If you have the wrong understanding, you misunderstand. If you have the wrong 'take' on something, then you're mistaken. So, following the CAIR text to its logical conclusion, the views about Islam that are 'misheld' are wrong.
That means CAIR has decided the issue before the proposed meeting. In that case, what is there to discuss? CAIR comes to the meeting with its mind made up already.
And as CAIR suggested the meeting, what they really mean is: "Hey, Huckabee, infidel. We got sumpin t'tell ya! Listen up, or you gonna sleep wid da fishes, OK?"
"On Monday, the Council on American-Islamic Relations called Huckabee's comments divisive and proposed that he meet with Muslim leaders to discuss commonly misheld views about the religion."
Funny how no-one ever demands that Muslim "spokespersons" or their infidel sycophants apologise for dissing Christianity, Judaism or hinduism etc.
Perhaps it's time for someone to set up similar "civil rights" groups like ChAIR, JAIR, and HAIR to demand apologies and "sensitivity training" every time a Muslim bigot spouts something 'divisive' about other faiths.
The only "misheld beliefs" are that Islam is religion of peace and preaches tolerance, love and respect for all! Huckabee WILL never denounce the Lord Jesus and will never acknowledge that Islam is anything but evil and the antithesis of every thing good holy and righteous!
CAIR should be rcognized as enemy agents and not given public forums used to further their Islamic Agenda. Our preoccupation with CAIR plays into what they want to achieve, recognition and legitamacy. We are aiding enemy propagandists.
Ooops, brain glitch, that should, of course be, CAChR, CAJR and CAHR, though they don't have the same ring to them.
But did there exist a "Muhammed" at all? Is it "Muhamad" - "the Praised One" - being made into flesh and blood for the purpose of making an Arab Christian sect into a separate strictly monotheistic religion?
Some very interesting theories have been put forward.
The Hidden Origins of Islam: New Research into Its Early History
Product description:
"The standard histories of Muhammad and the early development of Islam are based on Islamic literature that dates to the ninth and tenth centuries--some two centuries or more after the death of Muhammad in 632. Islamic literary sources do not exist for the seventh and eighth centuries, when, according to tradition, Muhammad and his immediate followers lived. All that is preserved from this time period are a few commemorative building inscriptions and assorted coins.
Based on the premise that reliable history can only be written on the basis of sources that are contemporary with the events described, the contributors to this in-depth investigation present research that reveals the obscure origins of Islam in a completely new light. As the authors meticulously show, the name "Muhammad" first appears on coins in Syria bearing Christian iconography. In this context the name is used as an honorific meaning "revered" or "praiseworthy" and can only refer to Jesus Christ, as Christianity was the predominant religion of the area at this time. This same reference exists in the building inscription of the Dome of the Rock in Jerusalem, built by the caliph `Abd al-Malik.
The implication of these and other findings here presented is that the early Arab rulers adhered to a sect of Christianity. Indeed, evidence from the Koran, finalized at a much later time, shows that its central theological tenets were influenced by a pre-Nicean, Syrian Christianity. Linguistic analysis also indicates that Aramaic, the common language throughout the Near East for many centuries and the language of Syrian Christianity, significantly influenced the Arabic script and vocabulary used in the Koran. Finally, it was not until the end of the eighth and ninth centuries that Islam formed as a separate religion, and the Koran underwent a period of historical development of at least 200 years."
When CAIR renounce terrorism and discrimination, and I mean renounce terrorism and discrimination in all it's forms, not, "I condemn terrorism... But perhaps they will have some semblance of respectability. But not when they condemn people for perceived discrimination against them when they are one of the most bigoted and racist groups in the US along with the Westboros and Klan.
A little context:
Well, the ahadith say Jesus will come back to break all the crosses anyway (Sahih Bukhari 3.43.656, among others), and "fight the people in the cause of Islam" (Sunan Abu Dawud 37.4310).
Why so modest, Marisol? Are we having PC textbooks now?
‘Muslims believe Jesus will come back, break the cross and lead the war against the kaffirs’-
There’s more: Jesus will come back, break the cross, kill the swine and abolish the jiziyah.
The swine, that’s us folks, just in case you’re wondering.
The killing of the swine is so that the “Christian belief of its lawfulness is belied.” The reason for abolishing the jizyah tax (the compulsory poll-tax that non-Muslims must pay in order to live in a Muslim land) is based on the idea that when Jesus returns, the jizyah tax will no longer be accepted. The only choice that Christians will have is to accept Islam or die.
http://sheikyermami.com/2007/12/26/isa-the-muslim-jesus/
I think Mike should ask the supremacist CAIR goons about these:
"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth." -- CAIR cofounder and longtime Board chairman Omar Ahmad, 1998
"I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future." - Ibrahim Hooper, CAIR spokesman
Can we please not spell Koran with Qs and apostrophes? The Q spelling is not Arabic and it is not English.
Other than that, great work Mr Spencer!
It's been clarified by Spencer in the past why he spells the book Qur'an rather than Koran or any other variation. Transliterated from Arabic, it's the closest. Doing so doesn't imply any kind of dhimmitude - latent or otherwise.
I agree w/ Sheikh Yermani - the Islamic texts don't obliterate Jesus, but their version of Jesus does @ the end obliterate Christians - either by conversion or death. Note that the option of being 2nd rate dhimmi citizens won't apply then.
One thing I've always wondered - why would Muslims expect a Jesus to come and obliterate Christians, when Mohammed & his immediate successors did a fine job the first time around?
Guy Macher wrote: Can we please not spell Koran with Qs and apostrophes? The Q spelling is not Arabic and it is not English.
Oh, don't be so anal Guy.
In what way is it not English? Transliterations are by necessity phonetic, as the English alphabet doesn't map directly to Arabic. Furthermore, common usage is one of the sources of English spelling, that's why American English and English English have different spellings.
And anyway, why should anyone give a damn about how it's spelled? I for one have no respect for the Qu Klux Quran, so as far as I'm concerned all spellings are equally valid...
Does anyone know e-mail contact info for Huckabee?
@ Guy Macher
Muslims don't believe that Jesus died on the Qross. What's the problem? It's not the spelling, that's for sure.
This is once again an act of shear ignorance by these Christian Churches, this is like letting the fox into the hen house.
Mohamed and his followers to me are indeed the epitome of the ant-Christ in their teachings. Mohamed condemned the Bible because he said it was corrupted by the Jews that wrote it.
You might try Governor Huckabee's FOX E mail address
huckmail@foxnews.com
They are the ones who need to apologize on behalf of their "prophet" Muhammad, the only founder of a cult who was himself a ruler, conqueror, enslaver, bandit, murderer, rapist, polygamist, pedophile and self-proclaimed prophet.
Muslims of the world, keep your heads down. The world has read your books and history. There is no place for fairy tales or lies.
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2010/12/perfect-man-of-islam.html
Sheik--
I didn't intend at all to downplay the virulence of those ahadith. You're quite right that one could go on at length about them, and as is the case with so many, there is more than one hadith to choose from, as the compilers sought to provide corroborating evidence of authentic sayings and acts by Muhammad (thereby unintentionally doing us a favor!).
I did link to the full text of the two I mentioned. My concern at that point in the posting was the length of it (the introductory commentary ran pretty long), and keeping the focus on the story about Huckabee and CAIR's attempts to bully him.
Thanks, Mackie.
I just e-mailed him these:
"Islam isn't in America to be equal to any other faith, but to become dominant. The Koran should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the only accepted religion on earth." -- CAIR cofounder and longtime Board chairman Omar Ahmad, 1998
"I wouldn't want to create the impression that I wouldn't like the government of the United States to be Islamic sometime in the future." - Ibrahim Hooper, CAIR spokesman
And urged him not to apologize to the supremacist CAIR thugs as he's right, and if he wants to learn about Islam to visit Jihad Watch.org.
Who knows if they ever even see their e-mails. But, it's worth a try.
Robert has addressed the issue of the spelling of "Qur'an" versus "Koran," etc. before. As he said here:
It's simply a matter of accuracy, and affords no special homage to Islam (we also use "Baha'i," for example) any more than keeping a tilde or umlaut on another foreign loanword does for that language or culture.
Not too very long ago, Huckabee was an apologist for islam with the quintessential, 'Christian, love thy neighbor' attitude. Like many Americans, he apparently could not conceive the possibility that a religion is inherently evil. I emailed him in response to an article he wrote about islam a few months ago, which he probably never saw, outlining a few of islam's more hideous tenets and some quotes from the scumbags at CAIR, and literally begged him to study islam for himself to verify its malevolence. Huckabee comes across as a genuinely fair and good man and is widely respected. He needs to be spreading the right message about islam, not feel-good tripe.
Huckabee, like Hannity, Beck, Boortz, and a few other 'conservatives', seems to have finally come to his senses and abandoned unquestioning tolerance for stark reality, which is great. I don't know what or who was influential in getting through to these people but it took far too long for them to snap out of it considering the abundance of damning empirical evidence against islam.
Who is right? Huckabee?
"They [Christians and Jews] say: The Fire will not touch us save for a certain number of days. That which they used to invent hath deceived them regarding their religion." (The Fire will burn them forever.) 3:24
Christians and Jews must believe what Allah has revealed to Muhammad or Allah will disfigure their faces or turn them into apes, as he did the Sabbath-breakers. (See 2:65-66) 4:47
Those who ascribe a partner to Allah (like Christians do with Jesus and the Holy Spirit) will not be forgiven. They have "invented a tremendous sin." 4:48, 4:116
Those who invent lies about Allah are guilty of flagrant sin. 4:50
Jews and Christians believe in idols and false deities, yet they claim to be more rightly guided than Muslims. 4:51
"Those (Christians and Jews) are they whom Allah hath cursed." 4:52
Allah has stirred up enmity and hatred among Christians. 5:14
Christians are disbelievers for believing in the divinity of Christ. 5:17
Don't take Jews or Christians for friends. If you do, then Allah will consider you to be one of them. 5:51
Jews and Christians are losers. 5:53
Allah could replace nonbelievers with believers who would love him and do whatever he says. 5:54
Your only friends should be Allah, Muhammad, and those who believe correctly (Muslims). 5:55
Don't choose Jews, Christians, or disbelievers as guardians. 5:57
Jews and Christians are evil-livers. 5:59
Evil is the handiwork of the rabbis and priests. 5:63
Christians will be burned in the Fire. 5:72
Christians are wrong about the Trinity. For that they will have a painful doom. 5:73
Fight against Christians and Jews "until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low." 9:29
Christians and Jews are perverse. Allah himself fights against them. 9:30
The "Religion of Truth" (Islam) must prevail, by force if necessary, over all other religions. 9:33
Give tidings (O Muhammad) of a painful doom to the rich and greedy Christian monks and Jewish rabbis. 9:34
Christians will cry out to Allah's "partners", but they won't hear them; Allah will send them to their doom. 18:52
Allah will taunt Christians on the day of their doom, saying: Where are My partners whom ye imagined? 28:62-64
When the Hour comes, Christians will be divided into two groups: Those who believed Allah's revelations, and those who disbelieved in them. The believers will be happy in the Garden; the disbelievers will be brought to doom. 30:13-16
Gee, I guess if you consult the Qur'an (or Koran), you would conclude that Huckabee is right and CAIR is wrong. They must misunderstand Islam.
If Mohammed prophesied the coming of Jesus, then Jesus prophesied the coming of Mohammad.
Please write to Huckabee and his bosses and insist he has no reason to apologize and send CAIR a cc..
Contact information courtesy of CAIR
CONTACT: huckmail@foxnews.com, john.kilbashian@foxnews.com, woody.fraser@foxnews.com
COPY TO: info @cair.com]
Great point Sean. Walid Shoebat and Joel Richardson have done great work in showing that in the Bible, words used to describe the anti-Christ are used in Islam to describe the Mahdi, and words used to describe Satan are used to describe Allah.
Walid also says that the Bible translators had problems with the mark of the beast because they weren't sure what kind of characters they where even though the rest of the text was Greek. But when he saw the manuscript he said it was clearly Arabic. The first character is "In the name of". The second
character is "Allah". The third character is the crossed sword symbol of Islam.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GtquNNEO7Fw
He does a longer, 90-minute lecture, too, that has a lot more on the appearance of Islam in the Bible. It's in 7 segments here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxHnb9goGqg
Stick to your guns, and your God, Mike Huckabee. It's CAIR that needs to be hauled in for re-education, not you. When have Muslims EVER made the space of a jami available to Christians, Jews, or any other non-Muslims when they needed a place to worship?
John K, As for Walid Shoebat, I see him as a brother in Christ who needs to be heard, but I'm not completely sold on Muhammad or Mahdi being anti-Christ. One of many false prophets, yes; THE antichrist, no. The Man of Sin described in Paul's Thessalonian letters takes his seat in the Temple of God and exalts himself against God. That sounds more like some kind of false Christianity to me. That being said, the falsity of which I speak is not in the doctrine of the Trinity or the failure to find Muhammad anywhere in the Bible save at Matthew 24:24. Let the reader look it up.
While we're at it, Huckabee's "peace and love" talk in the wake of 9/11 wasn't any kind of PeeCee nonsense. It was a simple recognition that Muslim identity per se was not enough to indict someone as a terrorist. It certainly had no connotation of Islam as some kind of "legitimate" religion. As an Evangelical Baptist Christian, Huckabee doubtlessly believes that there is salvation in no other name save that of Jesus the Messiah; and, being a reader of the New Testament, no doubt, he accepts that the way to bring people to the Messiah is through loving and respectful preaching, ethical example, and prayer, not by holding an axe or club over people's heads. Further, he may well be aware that more Muslims are responding positively to the Gospel in these days than in ANY time since the beginning of Islam, and simply doesn't want to spoil what may well be God's harvest of souls.
In my book, Huckabee's only errors are that he would refuse baptism to the infant children of believing parents; deny that pouring or sprinkling constitutes baptism; and probably accepts the Dispensational view of the end times. And if I disagree with him on these matters, I still respect him as a Christian, an American leader, and as a man.
I'm actually with The Church on this one. Although I understand where Huckabee is coming from. Christ said to love your enemies, and I really don't see a greater example of that then this. So I see these people as just acting like good Christians, rather then dhimmi's. Would The Muslims return the favor if the shoe were on the other foot? Probably not. But Christian doctrine holds itself to a much higher moral standard then those of Islam.
@ Kepha - Thanks. About, "takes his seat in the Temple of God and exalts himself against God", what about the Dome of the Rock?
@ Capt Hammer - We may love drug addicts and try to help them, but we wouldn't let them sell and use drugs in a church.
If the muslims believe that in future Jesus will come to destroy those who put faith in him for putting faith in him, and as someone wrote above, "he dies after 40 years," then the muslims are indeed obliterating Jesus.
Jesus told his disciples that he would be with them always. He promised them a reward: to be with him and his Father.
The muslims putting forth the idea that he will do anything that contradicts those promises of Jesus and having him die is obliterating Jesus as well as his disciples.
A man should not have to apologize for something he believes and teaches because someone else doesn't like hearing it. Jesus said things that others around him didn't like. He didn't apologize.
Jaladhi wrote:
Our church leaders don't know that once Muslims pray in a church or any other place, they consider it a mosque anyway!!
.........................
*Very* important point, Jaladhi.
...
Capt Hammer wrote:
I'm actually with The Church on this one. Although I understand where Huckabee is coming from. Christ said to love your enemies, and I really don't see a greater example of that then this. So I see these people as just acting like good Christians, rather then dhimmi's.
John K wrote:
@ Capt Hammer - We may love drug addicts and try to help them, but we wouldn't let them sell and use drugs in a church.
.........................
I *absolutely agree*, John K. It is one thing to love your enemies, another thing to *enable their evil*. If I saw a Muslim in danger or in pain (as long as they were being non-violent at the time), I would do everything I could to help them.
But if asked to help any Muslim wage Jihad or impose Shari'ah, I would *never consider aiding them*. I would, in fact, do everything possible to resist.
that is what the koran said; therefore the koran and mo should say 'sorry'.