Poll shows Egyptians in favor of democracy and stoning for adultery

I suppose it can be considered a (relatively) good thing that being a "stoner" has a different conotation in the USA than in Egypt! :-)

Can't have islam without the barbarislam (sic)..

On second thought scratch the sic..Sick's much more appropriate.

Here's an old article from Front Page that shows photos of the graduating classes of Cairo University over the last 50 years.

http://frontpagemag.com/2010/02/05/how-the-veil-conquered-cairo-university/

As Einstein said, the definition of insanity is "doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

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This just in... A counter to 'islamophobis'

"Toleracide". Toleration suicide.

Pass it on.

The 'a' and the 's' are right beside each other.
Oops

Well, it is an easy mistake to impute similar meanings to "justice", "liberty", and even "reason" to members of another culture. Alasdair MacIntyre's _Which Justice? Whose Rationality?_ makes a rather good case that these terms take their meanings from the traditions of discourse in which they are uttered.

Egypt is steeped in the sometimes rival, sometimes interpenetrating traditions of Islam and 20th century totalitarianism, and even the dissenters have been deeply marked by these two traditions. The West, by contrast, is marked by a division and interplay between enlightenment liberalism and Augustinian Christianity. Hence, the combination of wanting regular elections (as dissent against the totalitarian tradition) and approving of stoning adulterers and apostates may not be that "illogical" to the Egyptian man in the street.

"Pure" democracy = mob rule with a layer of voting to make it look nice. It is absolute rule of the majority, even though in the West we tend to re-define a democracy to be what is actually a constitutional republic. If we can keep it, as Ben Franklin said.

An Islamic "democracy" = mob rule by muslims and Sharia law in place of a constitution that protects human rights and the rule of rational law. Since most Westerners, and certainly most Americans, won't bestir themselves to discover the difference, the MSM dhimmi hacks can blather on about the Huddled Egyptian Masses Yearning to Breathe Free in Democracy, and will do so until the Muslim-Brotherhood-run Islamic state that will result from all this causes enough cognitive dissonance to make their heads explode.

The Egyptians, meanwhile, will get Islamic rule courtesy of the Muslim Brotherhood, NOT Athenian -- or Jeffersonian, or Jacksonian -- "democracy". Which will be fine with them, since they won't know the difference anyway.

"Tiny minority of extremists" my ass!

America has wasted so far 30 billion dollars on these Allah Akbars. Time to stop this waste, and channel this fund,(as well as those billions of dollars paid to Pakistan)- on the American homeless people.

Even islamists cannot take the internet lightly. The egyptian events may shake iranian regime as well. Islamic fundamentalists from Saudi Arabia, Iran or Pakistan will have no other way but amend or dilute their holy book in the near futures. Allah proposes, Muslim disposes!

islam is actualy very similar to the ideas in democracy and the second country to institute free speach was morrocco a muslim state

Didn't Kipploping talk about this .... one of my favorite partial stanzas from any peom.

from Kipplings The White Man's Burden, 1899:

"And when your goal is nearest
The end for others sought,
Watch sloth and heathen Folly
Bring all your hopes to nought."

HAHAHA!!! sorry ..

The "goal" in our latest imperialist endeavor being "democracy" and the creation of "constitutional republics" for Muslims by means of an Islamic electorate seeking "freedom". The "folly" being when they elect an Islamic theocracy ... LOL have to love it. All of our treasure and lives lost to heathen folly lol... love that poem.

Anyways there was a reason why our Nations of Origins act excluded "Asians" geographically ... we all know what "Asians" stands for, right? With attitudes relearned I would

a good read, most of us have read this:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/Kipling.html

islam and democracy are incompatible, and islam and human rights are incompatible as well.

At best, Egypt will turn into another islamic state like Iran.

Know islam
No democracy

Defender of Islam notes: "...the second country to institute free speach was morrocco a muslim state"

Well things have changed...Morrocco is closing down magazines and newspapers and they are prosecuting those who report the activities of the government and of the Muslims activities within the country...

Just like Islam everywhere else...Silence the critics ..

Free Speech under Attack in Morrocco
WashingtonFebruary 4, 2010

Morocco’s closure of leading independent news magazine Le Journal Hebdomodaire and the prison sentence handed down to blogger Boubaker al-Yadib reflect an ongoing and disturbing pattern of restriction on free speech.

Moroccan authorities shut down the French-language weekly and declared it bankrupt, the latest twist in a defamation case against its editor and co-founder, Abou Bakr Jamai, that crippled the magazine with over $360,000 in fines.

“The use of exorbitant fines and libel cases to silence Morocco’s critics sends a clear signal that independent and free media in the country will not be tolerated,” said Paula Schriefer, advocacy director at Freedom House. “The increased rate of attacks on traditional and new media is a disturbing pattern in the government’s continuing repression of free expression.”

Jamai went into exile after Le Journal lost its 2006 appeal of the defamation case. He returned to Morocco last year and has faced ongoing government harassment amid advertising boycotts and fines.

In another example of government crackdown on the media, blogger Boubaker Al-Yadib was sentenced to six months in prison after he helped organize a week-long blogging strike to protest restrictions on free expression. Bloggers posted a picture of a coffin marked “Freedom of Expression” and stopped writing online during a “week of mourning.”

“Morocco retaliates against journalists for publishing, but then attacks bloggers for refusing to publish,” said Courtney C. Radsch, Senior Program Officer for the Global Freedom of Expression campaign. “The government’s hostility toward free expression contradicts its desire to be seen as a progressive country.”

Morocco is ranked Party Free in Freedom in the World 2010, Freedom House's survey of political rights and civil liberties, and Not Free in Freedom of the Press 2009.

For more information on Morocco, visit:

Freedom in the World 2009: Morocco

Freedom of the Press 2009: Morocco

Freedom House is an independent watchdog organization that supports democratic change, monitors the status of freedom around the world, and advocates for democracy and human rights.

OT, but Shep Smith's reporting on events at FOX Cable might as well be Al Jazeera. He's referring to Mubarak as a "tyrannical dictator", going on and on, excoriating the regime.

I thought a) Fox news was conservative and b) the hard news (non-"opinion") division was "fair and balanced". I'm hearing nothing but opinion!

Imagine a world where 95% of Muslims say Islam should play LITTLE, if any, role in politics. I dare say most folks (including Robert) would hardly care what the Quran said or what Muhammad did, as Islam would be reduced to a personal "me-and-Allah" thing, out of the way of anyone else....which would suit the world just fine. It might even BE a religion of peace then.

But unfortunately, Islam and politics DO mix. Inextricably. And the minority of Muslims who beg to differ can't do a damn thing about the massive ummah-inertia that DOES believe it and will do whatever it takes to clumsily yet zealously fall over each other to awkwardly impose its hundreds of versions of sharia on the rest of their brethren.

This is singularly the most maddening thing about Islam, IMO....for both Muslim and non-Muslim. The obligation to impose sharia is a HUGE burden for Muslims. It's apparent there is no one version of sharia that will make everyone in the ummah happy....and yet try they all must to nail down that slippery utopia-on-earth target. To stone or not to stone? To amputate limbs or not? To punish apostates or not? To tolerate heresies-and-other-religions or not? Usury or not? Halal food or not? Hijab or burka or not? Music or not? Study science/math as well or just the Quran? To punish blasphemers or not? To make art or not? To segregate or not? To beat wives or not? To drink or not? To mandate 5x prayer or not? To educate girls or not? To watch movies and the World Cup or not? To fight or not? And what about all the variations in between? The absence of consensus is enough to drive any believer-in-utopia-and-perfection nuts.

And then there are guys like Feisal Abdul Rauf who peculiarly stated in his book "What's Right About Islam":

....that America is substantively an "Islamic" country, by which I mean a country whose systems remarkably embody the principles that Islamic law requires of a government.

It's tough being in a religion that boasts being the "perfect way of life" for an entire society. Tougher still trying to enforce that perfection (or one's interpretation of perfection) on an entire society and yet failing miserably (i.e. "there is no true Islamic country, blah, blah"). Especially when Western societies seem to manage things so much better without Islam. In a proud, shame-based culture in which Islam resides, it's no wonder the angst many Muslims have towards the West. And blaming the West for Islam's ills only begs the uncomfortable question of why "perfect Islam" can't overcome the "blasphemous West" in the first place.

The sooner Muslims abandon obsessing over the unattainable (i.e. sharia for their world), the sooner they might find life less frustrating and more relaxing. And better off the rest of the world would be.

This is a great article. Outstanding one to forward around. Most people are very reluctant to take stuff in when you tell them about islamic beliefs, quran verses, hadiths etc.

But these numbers just show the hard facts. Even someone who doesn't understand islamic theology, and has no interest to understand it, can learn something from these numbers.

I would like to congratulate the reuters journalist who wrote this article. Even though he puts the stupid line "Egyptians reject radical Islamists, but want Islam to play a large role" perhaps only to pass the article through higher-ups, his title gives the gist away.

Muslims want a democracy so they will be free to enslave the kuffar for fun and profit.

If Egyptians elect the Muslim Brotherhood, then we are now enemies just like in the 1930's with Nazi Germany. Sky is the limit, this is the choice of Egyptians and everyone else needs to accept the new era of democracy in the Middle East.

This article suffers from a serious confusion in terms and definitions. Islamism denotes an ideology aspiring for an Islamic state governed by Islamic law. I don't know what extreme Islamism is since since Islamism is extreme by defintion, there's no such thing as a moderate Islamist as they're trying to sell to us for a while now. But just for the sake of exercise let's say that an "Islamist extremist" would want a global Islamic state where the entire world lives under sharia law while a "moderate Islamist" will be satisfied with turning only his own country into an Islamic state or be satisfied with some countries in thw world living only partially under sharia law.

Suicide bombing has nothing to do with Islamist extremism or "moderation". Suicide bombing is simply a tactic to get a political goal, a terrorist tactic, i.e. a tactic designed to cause terror and demoralization as a means of pressure to get one's goal. This goal could be Islamist or any other political goal. Suicide bombing and terrorism in general is just one of the tactics Islamists use. They use many other tactics, violent or non-violent. The fact that some Islamists use non-violent tactics doesn't make them any less extremist.

It's not just the tactic of terrorism that we oppose, but the political goal the Islamists are trying to attain, which is extremist in itself. We particularly object if they aspire to impose Islamic law on our countries as well and not just their own.

Accordint to this poll there's a widespread support for Islamism in Egypt, at least at a local level, i.e. in their own country. The poll didn't ask about the global level.

OT Very Disturbing development in India. Islamic banking is not good for any country. It has failed in many countries across the world and is a precursor to the draconian shariah laws.

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/economy/finance/kerala-high-court-clears-way-for-indias-first-islamic-bank/articleshow/7417930.cms

Although, I wasn't surprised by results of the survey I did find it very unsettling! It is very sad how some key people in the MSM just don't seem to get it. Scary Stuff!

Here's a fascinating NYT piece:

Young Iraqis are losing their faith in religion

By Sabrina Tavernise
Monday, March 3, 2008

BAGHDAD — After almost five years of war, many young Iraqis, exhausted by constant firsthand exposure to the violence of religious extremism, say they have grown disillusioned with religious leaders and skeptical of the faith that they preach.

In two months of interviews with 40 young people in five Iraqi cities, a pattern of disenchantment emerged, in which young Iraqis, both poor and middle class, blamed clerics for the violence and the restrictions that have narrowed their lives.

"I hate Islam and all the clerics because they limit our freedom every day and their instruction became heavy over us," said Sara Sami, a high school student in Basra. "Most of the girls in my high school hate that Islamic people control the authority because they don't deserve to be rulers."

Atheer, a 19-year-old from a poor, heavily Shiite neighborhood in southern Baghdad, said: "The religion men are liars. Young people don't believe them. Guys my age are not interested in religion anymore."

The shift in Iraq runs counter to trends of rising religiousness among young people across much of the Middle East, where religion has replaced nationalism as a unifying ideology. While religious extremists are admired by a number of young people in other parts of the Arab world, Iraq offers a test case of what could happen when extremist theories are applied.

SHAKIR: And (as for) the man who steals and the woman who steals, cut off their hands as a punishment for what they have earned, an exemplary punishment from Allah; and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

Then Mo's hands should have been amputated.

http://pewglobal.org/2010/12/02/muslims-around-the-world-divided-on-hamas-and-hezbollah/

How interesting, the pool was made with muslims only. Now there's no way to deny this, the muslim population in Egypt (~90%) is very radical and pro sharia.
So whenever your liberal friend say to you "oh muslims in egypt only wand democracy and freedom" you say "well, you're right about the first one". As our founders knew all to well, democracy by itself doesn't mean safety for human rights of liberty.
Its clear now that Mubarak will go to the list of people we shouldn't have been to hasty to throw away, like Batista, Lon Nol, or the Shah.

"Poll shows Egyptians in favor of democracy and stoning for adultery"

Another poll shows Americans in favor of democracy and death penalty.

Just an example showing how different cultures defines democracy and just punishment. ;-)

And we've taught them the deceit of politics. They are using the peer pressure and manipulation of polls to manipulate the masses to vote with the herd. That is how we "sold" democracy to Muslims in power.

Use your heads. Should we not have been allowed our revolution in '76 because we favored exterminating Native Americans, enslaving and murdering blacks, while depriving women of all sorts of rights? We favored all of those things, became a democracy and worked out our problems. We've only been a decent society since the 60's I remind you, before that it was segregation, economic exploitation of minorities, lynchings, etc.

I'm very late to read this and wish I'd been here sooner to tell Jonathan Lenglain to use his head, that the US is not and has never been a democracy, and that he proves himself to be a fool by insisting that democracy and liberty are anonymous. Democracy is nothing more or less than majority rule and so it's only as free or as deadly as the majority chooses it to be.

I'm very late to read this and wish I'd been here sooner to tell Jonathan Lenglain to use his head, that the US is not and has never been a democracy, and that he proves himself to be a fool by insisting that democracy and liberty are synonymous. Democracy is nothing more or less than majority rule and so it's only as free or as deadly as the majority chooses it to be.