Spencer discusses Muslim Brotherhood on Fox News

With Mubarak stepping down, it is imperative that Americans be informed about the nature and goals of the Muslim Brotherhood, which is likely to be the key player in Egypt’s next government. Here is a Fox News backgrounder on the Brotherhood, featuring a brief appearance by…me.

Obama says Mubarak must begin "transition" now
Here comes the Muslim Brotherhood: Mubarak to step down
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Comments

  1. says

    Robert: this was affective and focused view of yours about MoSlum Brotherhood that was clear and simple.

    Thanks to FOX NEWS to have that kind of pointed opinion viewed.

  2. says

    Brief, yes, but one step closer to those split-second subliminal bursts the boys in the Zionist-Crusader Conspiracy Labs have been working on.

    Just as soon as the next round of spy-squirrels has been deployed.

    First things first. Then… Subliminal Spencer.

  3. says

    Two comments:

    1. Hamas is “believed” to be a Muslim Brotherhood offshoot? No, Hamas IS an MB offshoot, Hamas covenant explicitly states so in article 2: “The Islamic Resistance Movement [AKA Hamas, D&G] is one of the wings of Moslem Brotherhood in Palestine.”

    2. If the MB main organization (excluding its various fronts and offshoots) decided not to use violence it’s for tactical reasons only and not because they oppose violence in principle. They don’t use violence to avoid a crackdown. First they propagate and grow and embed themselves into various parts of the society, and then when they are big and strong enough they will use violence. These are not some kind of very conservative Buddhists, but a very sophisticated organization that’s been planning a global Islamic caliphate for decades.

  4. says

    Question: The terrorism in the 90s in Egypt, including the brutal murder of scores of tourists at Luxor, was perpetrated by the “Islamic Group”. Was this organization an appendage of the MB?

  5. says

    Good on ‘Fox News’ which is giving a much truer account of Middle East currently than are BBC and CNN.

    Glenn Beck, on ‘Fox News’ now, is discussing what other parts of the media don’t: THE CALIPHATE. His analysis continues tomorrow.

  6. says

    LBJ when President was asked why he brought a critic of his into his Administration. He replied that he’d rather have the critic inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in. This strategy can work at times but it can also backfire, especially when you’re dealing with ideologues of a totalitarian bent. The same thinking played a role in Adolf Hitler’s rise to the Chancellorship of Germany in January of 1933. It was thought by lesser men like Franz von Papen that Hitler and his Nazi Party would be better controlled if good old Adolf were in the government rather than remaining outside of it. Well, we know how that worked. I fear there may be many in the West (and in Egypt) who think the same of the Muslim Brotherhood as was thought of Hitler and his fellow Nazis. Time will tell.

  7. says

    Back in the salad daze of the Jasmin Revolution, what, 3 wks ago?, no mention was made of the Bro-Hood. But the coverage of it since Egypt started has been excellent.

    Those of you who read my posts will know I’m a hardcore critic of our news entertainer/opinion programmer elites.

    *** 33:21 ***

    2 or 3 mos ago I reported on Sean Hannity Radio going not just the one segment with Brigitte & Wafa but a full second segment. They really got Sean going in the first segment…
    by focusing on the contents of Islam, not the opinion surrounding this or that of Islam – anything but the contents. Wafa & Brigitte first dishing up Koranic passages, then Sharia passages, and finally Hadith passages (this was the first Sean had ever heard of the Hadiths).

    Then he made a comment on the “offending passages” and they jumped all over him, emphasizing the Islam is a system based on scriptures, not offending passages.

    I view those two radio segments as the moment of breakthrough on free speech about Islam and Moslems. Those 10 – 15 minutes were historic because about 4 million ignorant Infidels were listening.

    *** 33:21 ***

    Since the Egyptian Revolution for “Democracy” started, I noticed the talk about the Bro-Hood. I flipped over to the awful CNN and the even more awful MSNBC, and even those geeks were talking Bro-Hood.

    Forced into doing so by the full court press by the recently informed Hannity? I think so.

    Is the historical stranglehold on criticizing Islam a dirt dam about to break under the pressure of Moslem misbehavior?

    I’ve been a cynic on that, but could it be that the work of Spencer-Fitzgerald-Geller-Shirk-Brigitte & Wafa-Shirk gonna take the free speech lid off in the Lamestream Media?

    My guess is the Islam Info Embego wil be lifted beiefly and only partially. Once the so-called Democratic-Revolution-by-Moslems trouble blows over, matters will return to normal, where ya have to hit JW to get the real truth the whole truth nothing but the truth.

  8. says

    Spot on Robert! That’s how the Nazi-like Muslim Brotherhood (Muslim Brotherhood since its foundation by Hassan al-Banna, together with the Palestinian Mufti of Jerusalem, and the Turkish Ottomans were among or main Hitler/Nazi’s biggest collaborators or advisers!)organizes in the West too – especially through ‘smooth’ Nazi-like propaganda by ‘intellectuals’ such as the grandson of the Nazi Muslim Brotherhood founder, Tariq Ramadan. Tariq must be jumping up and down, gleefully;! Oh no, he already did that constantly, with so much Western leftie stupidity around, bowing to “Islamic reformist-intellectuals” like him and Islam, like SLAVES!

  9. says

    I’ll be honest- I hate 99% of what Fox and think it’s bull poopy. But when it comes to Islam? They’re about 100% accurate.

    I hope Spencer appears on liberal networks and so forth as well for his message of truth but apparently they always censor/edit him and cast them as a villain.

  10. says

    I hope Spencer appears on liberal networks and so forth as well for his message of truth but apparently they always censor/edit him and cast them as a villain.

    Liberal media, and most liberals in general, are on the side of the jihadists for no other reason than “the enemy of my enemy is my friend.” Anything conservative is anathema to the left, so they will side with anything the right deems as an enemy.

    The only reason a liberal station would have Robert on is to vilify him and his message and paint him as a “racist”, or a “hatemonger”, or a “bigot”. Then they can pat themselves on the back for taking some sort of moral high ground of “tolerance” (even though it’s complete fantasy).

  11. says

    True, but FoxNews’ coverage on Moslems is deeply flawed via the tried and true process of elision.

    And it’s a very dangerous thing when semi-fair and partially balanced coverage is accepted as the whole story on Islam, the most important geo-political force going on in the world right now.

  12. says

    LOL!

    “Doves & Hawks” in the MB- really? Where does that broad get her information from?

    That’s just as ridiculous as the invention of the ‘moderate’ Muslim.

    What’s next? Vegetarian cannibals? Sensitive rapists? Merciful halal butchers? Humanitarian Nazis?

    What does it take to sell them the tale of the elevated status of a dhimmi, or the elevated status of women in Islam?

  13. says

    I thank you Robert, for your insight in to this all these years. I have learned a lot from you. So much so that this all seems to be old news as it happens. I don’t need to watch Glenn Beck to know what he is is going to say. I just hope there is never a day you get overthrown. You think it would be hard to replace Mubarak, god forbid if anything were to e happen to you. I have never met you but you feel like family after coming to Jihad Watch all these years.

  14. says

    Its a shame Fox News wastes so much time putting tons of uneducated laymen talking about current events in the Middle East, but then spares only a few seconds for people with the caliber of Robert Spencer.

    He should be their go-to guy for anything related to this, he should have lengthy segments and participation on their panels. Glenn Beck is just doing an entire show on the Muslim Brotherhood (kudos for that btw), but would it kill for him to put people like Spencer on the show?

  15. says

    Given personal concern for minorities, Israel and (hopefully) “liberal elements” in Egypt, there is a large part of me that would prefer that the Muslim Brotherhood (MB) did not have an opportunity to come anywhere close to being involved in a new government in Egypt. That said the “social dynamic cleansing” of Germany of its Prussian Militaristic mindset through Naziism was an evidence of a human evolutionary process? In the case of the MB it may be that their reality needs to be fully brought out into the open before Muslims and Westerners can discover an enduring foundation for the future? Compared to a week ago the US knowledge of Egyptian cultural groups and “world views” has already changed dramatically? How much more will be learned in the coming days, weeks or months?

    Respectfully Ts

  16. says

    One can still be liberal and hate what Islamic Sharia brings about.

    Hell, Sharia is anti-all human values, liberals should be lined around the block against it. Liberals need someone to reach out to them.

    That’s why I’d love to see Spencer on the Daily Show, even though it’ll likely never happen.

  17. says

    I’d recommend this film for anyone wanting to know my feelings on Fox.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok01hJHvobM

    Anyway, people can say “there are no conservatives anywhere but Fox,” but, look at the Iraq War…. the vast majority of the media overwhelmingly supported it. Hell, MSNBC fired their number one ratings guy at the time for opposing it too much!

    And other networks do have conservatives. These are people dedicated to the status quo of millionaires and billionaires and advancing their interests.

    Tax cuts for the rich that don’t stimulate the economy and unlimited power to overcharge for the healthcare mega-industry are the Republican Party’s two main goals right now. Nooo thanks I says.

  18. says

    I have to disagree with someone who complimented Sarah Palin …you must be kidding …Sarah , I do not know where to start …Sarah is a loud mouth,empty brain, quitter, money hungry, self righteous woman whom I am embarrassed to share gender with her …she set women’s movement back a 100 years . She wants to be a president before ever opened a book about the laws of this country ..not even a news paper she could not name one magazine or news paper , when she was asked . She quite her job as a governor of Alaska while the state need it her and went on all over the country to make stupid speeches with no actual solutions to any of the problems facing this great country . She act like she could fix and know everything about the world but she did not now her underage daughter having sex behind her back and the result was un wanted pregnancy . Her stupid remarks always lands her in trouble with everyone …she managed to insult everyone …what it is going to take for people to see her of what she is …if she ever became a president [ God forbid ] I am going to start to evaluate my impression of the wisdom that American people I thought they had.

  19. says

    On page 547 (814 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, Muhammad permits a threat of beheading to force a conversion to Islam:

    [Muhammad] said: “Woe to you Abu Sufyan, isn’t it time that you recognize that I am God’s apostle?” [Sufyan] answered, “As to that I still have some doubt.” [Ibn Abbas] said to [Sufyan], “Submit and testify that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is the apostle of God before you lose your head,” so [Sufyan] did so.

  20. says

    The deficit rose precipitously under Reagan and started to go down under Clinton.

    Then, Bush rose it to 11 trillion from 6 trillion. Obama inherited a gigantic financial crisis, 2 wars and a sluggish economy.

    Health care costs are ridiculous in this country. We should have a public option that competes with the private monopolies and forces them to offer more affordable services.

    And yes, we have the best health care but only for those rich enough to afford it.

  21. says

    Poster “d&g” has created a problem for herself, and only she can fix it. But now she wants ME to fix this problem for her …

    You see, the problem is that d&g is unwilling to engage in an honest debate, and she is also unwilling to engage in the process of due diligence necessary in researching ALL of the facts surrounding the JP article that d&g brought to the debate table.

    Instead, she has chosen to side with the author of this article, simply because he works for The Jerusalem Post? How is that reasonable? This is unfortunate, since there are facts she needs to research that will prove that the article was false, but obviously d&g is unwilling to put ALL of the facts in front of her.

    This is unfortunate, because this is not a game. Lives can be ruined and even risked due to this kind of laziness and pride. And on Walid Shoebat’s behalf I also need to mention that when these false accusations broke from The Jerusalem Post, that Walid Shoebat felt SMEARED. He was quoted as saying that this was a “smear campaign” against him, so it’s pathetic that d&g would think that she is being smeared? The only one being smeared here is Walid Shoebat by d&g and the author of that article. d&g needs to get over herself and make up her mind that she’s going to do the due diligence and research the facts before attempting to spread any more lies about Walid. She feels smeared? Oh, please …

  22. says

    Bush added $5 trillion to the debt in his 8 years….terrible in-and-of-itself. Obama has added close to $3 trillion in 2 years, with Health-care “reform” expected to add trillions more down the road.

    Gill is a typical lefty, impervious to facts. It’s hopeless folks.

  23. says

    GILL: “And yes, we have the best health care but only for those rich enough to afford it.”

    Perfect example of liberal delusions. My niece is a medicaid recipient born with congenital defects, her parents of very modest means. She had an artificial heart-valve installed and has gotten the best care money could buy.

  24. says

    SOURCES OF ISLAMISM AND THE MUSLIM BROTHERHOOD

    The excellent Wellington makes a historical comparison between the Muslim Brotherhood and the raise of the Nazi movement in Germany; and epistemology agrees:

    “Very good observation about Hitler and the likes of him, dear Wellington. We all know what happens, when Pandora’s box is opened. Having been founded in 1928 the Muslim Brotherhood is the first terrorist organisation of modern times.”

    The similarities between MB and the Nazi movement is not just the totalitarian aspect or downplaying the dangers they pose, but the grievances from which they grew and gained power. The triumph of Nazism became an inspiration for the MB, the Mother of modern Islamism and terrorism.

    In “The Closing of the Muslim Mind” Robert R. Reilly writes about the sources of Islamism and draw lines to Nazism. Here an excerpt:

    “… A narrative of grievance and potential recovery exists throughout the Muslim world, but particularly among the Islamists, who are still in a state of shock over the abolition of the caliphate by Kemal Ataturk in 1924. With the collapse of the Ottoman Empire at the end of World War I, the caliphate was but a shell of itself. Nevertheless, its abandonment left some Muslims completely adrift. It was as if the Vatican had abjured its authority to represent the Church. How could the end of the caliphate be explained?

    Its abolition called onto existence the first Islamist organizations such as the Muslim Brotherhood, the “al-Ikhwan al-Muslimun”, dedicated to its restoration. While most Muslims may not share in the Islamist mythology regarding the caliphate, which did not exist continuously from the time of Muhammad, they nonetheless do require an explanation for the decline of their civilization.

    A somewhat similar situation existed in Germany after World War I, which Adolf Hitler was able to exploit with the Nazi Party. In fact, there are striking parallels to this sense of grievance that can be found in Mein Kampf. The comparison id not adventitious. There were associations between the Nazis and the early Islamists going back to the 1930s, when Hassan al-Banna, the founder of the Ikhwan, modeled the Muslim Brotherhood on the Brownshirts. The German sense of grievance came from the defeat in World War I and the metaphysical shock of the collapse of the Second Reich. This loss was inconceivable to them. The world had somehow been turned upside down. To comprehend the loss, Hitler and his companions explained it in terms of first the internal enemy and then the external enemy. Germany was stabbed in the back. Where was the rot in German society from which this betrayal came? The racist Nazi answer was the Jew. Germany must expunge the Jew and purify itself for the battle against the external enemy in order to bring about the millenarian vision of the Third Reich and the supremacy of the Aryan race.

    Similarly, Islamists try to focus the widely shared sense of grievance and humiliation in the Muslim world on the loss of the caliphate because they wish to restore it. Their explanation for the decline of their civilization is, as indicated above, a loss of faith. The solution to this problem is obviously not imitating the West, but restoring Muslim faith to a pristine condition, as defined by them. They, too, began looking for the internal enemy and then the external enemy. Osama bin Laden’s deputy, Ayman al-Zawahiri, gives typical expression to this formulation in describing “the apostate domestic enemy and the Jewish-crusader external enemy.” It is here, at the heart of the effort to restore past glory, that the questions asked in the introduction reappear.

    Are the Islamists of today something new or a resurgence of something from the past? How much of this is Islam and how much is Islamism? If so, in what way and from where has it come? And why is Islam susceptible to this kind of deformation?

    … Islamist authors cannot be accurately understood in the terms of Islam simply, but only within the perspective of the twentieth-century Western ideologies that they have assimilated, most especially those based on Nietzsche and Marx. (We shall shortly see how thorough the assimilation was). The seminal thinkers in Islamism, like Sayyid Qutb in Egypt, were very well versed in Western philosophy and literature.

    Qutb went to the United States for two years of postgraduate studies (1949-50). He was completely repelled by what he saw as a materialist culture. For example, he thought that the way Americans cared for their lawns was a sign of materialism and that the parish dances he witnessed were examples of sexual degeneracy. His exposure to the West intensified his hatred of it. The solution to what he diagnosed as Western alienation was Islam. Islam could overcome the relativism and the moral degeneracy that he had observed. Islam could save the West as well as the East.

    In order to do this, Qutb said that Muslims must emulate the behavior of the Companions of the Prophet to prepare for the struggle ahead. But he used Leninist terms and means, espousing a “vanhuard” of the faithful which would lead the restoration of the caliphate. (In fact, Qutb, though he despised Marxism, was the Muslim Brotherhood’s liaison to the Communist Party in Egypt and to the Communist International). Because of his opposition to the Egyptian government, Qutb was hanged by Nasser in 1966. He is said to have gone to the gallows smiling, leaving that iconic image to inspire hi followers today.

    … Qutb blamed the Jews in Istanbul for conspiring in the collapse of the caliphate (“The Jes have always been the prime movers in the war declared on all fronts against the advocates of Islamic revival throughout the world”), and lebaled impious Muslims as the internal enemy, who must be vanquished so that the infidel West could be confronted and overcome. This much of the program can be understood from Islam alone, without any contamination by Western ideology.
    The rest of the appeal stems from the result of the ancient struggle within Islam over the primacy of power versus the primacy of reason, which has been the subject of this book.

    As we have seen, the outcome of this contest decisively affected that character of the Islamic world in which Qutb could find such a ready audience for his ideology. The infection of Western millenarian ideological thought from Nietzsche and Marx would not have made Islamism the attraction it is unless Islamism was not also able to claim legitimacy by drawing upon something within the traditions of Islam itself. For this, Islamist thinkers selectively chose one, albeit a primary one, of the many theological and philosophical traditions within Islam’s rich history. The nexus between this school of thought and Western totalitarian ideology was the primacy of will.”

  25. says

    Cathrine Herddige: “There are two factions in the Muslim Brotherhood, the doves and the hawks and both got their start in Egypt….”

    It is the ‘dove’ faction that the administration has been working with.

    There is also the ‘political’ wing (the doves) and the military wing of Hamas. The west will cultivate relations with the political wing of Hamas.

    Maybe there are two factions in Hezbollah; al Qaeda.

  26. says

    “There are two factions in the Muslim Brotherhood, the doves and the hawks and both got their start in Egypt….”

    This is simply a ‘good cop’, ‘bad cop’ manipulation…Both cops work for the same boss, use the same operations manual, and have the same goals…Law enforcement…In the case of MB, Sharia law…

  27. says

    “The Party of Knowledge and the Party of Ignorance”

    [Extract]:

    “Although there are more conservatives who are critical of Islam than liberals, the correlation is not so strong as to be useful. There is another political axis that predicts whether someone supports or criticizes Political Islam. That axis is knowledge, knowledge about the doctrine and history of Political Islam.

    “Whether a Kafir (non-Muslim) supports or criticizes Islam is not classical left/right politics, but knowledge. There are two separate Kafir parties”the Party of Knowledge and the Party of Ignorance.”

    http://www.politicalislam.com/

  28. says

    “I have a friend from High School that started doing crack cocaine some35 years ago… I think he’s on his 5th or 6th heart valve now. Never paid a dime of any of it. Lives for free and gives back nothing and he gets top shelf healthcare. We lose and..
    You lose again.”

    Ah, socialized medicine- he got free treatment. Sounds good to me.

    Anyway, Bunty’s right. The anti-Jihad movement should be diverse, it can’t just be all conservatives. Right now it’s mostly conservative but they need to find a way to reach out to more liberals.

  29. says

    Hey fineliving56, show your true colours again do you? The way you demonize Sarah Palin including personally abusing her daughter (what does that have to do with you, your pathetic arrogance an dstupidity is unbelievable!) and yet , you’re always silent on the evilness of Islam, Moahmmed and Hussein Obama, despite that you claim to be a woman – however, I suspect, from all the comments in Islam Watch and trying to shut me up in criticizing Islam, you’re a Muslim fanatic! If you’re a convert from Islam, why do you keep always defending Islam in Islam Watch?!

  30. says

    Hey Kath…nice to see you in this wonderful web site …you can call me all kind of demeaning insults ..I do not lower my self to this level …I was stating the truth …tell me one thing about Palin that I said was not true ..I know truth some times hurts ….I was not attacking her under age daughter ..I actually feel sorry for her to be so young and be responsible for a baby and no eduction to speak of…how a girl of 17 could raise a child with no skills to do that, and got stock with a teenager fathers who’s idea of making fast money is to take his clothe off for a sleazy magazine…and on top of that he want to be the next governor of Alaska …what a joke . I could not sit there and read about the praise of Palin and ignore it… that all ..if we ever have a woman president, it better be someone who is really fit[mentally] to be a president of this country that I love . We all know all eyes will be on her to see if she the first American woman president going to fail or not and just bounce on her to put her down because she is a woman. We all know Palin does not come close and that is the problem with her ….by the way I am a woman even when you deny it …no mater …I am an ex muslim American who came 30 year ago from a muslim country where women are second class and never hope ever to be a president …and I am waiting for that day to happen, I have a feeling it is going to, hopefully in my life time. .And another thing, I despise Islam more then any readers here would ever hope to. cheers

  31. says

    I don’t get all the fuss about Walid Shoebat. As a public counterjihad worker he is subject to slander as much as Robert Spencer. Just because people have raised doubts about his biography doesn’t mean the objections are true. It’s obvious he is a man who speaks from his heart.

  32. says

    Well we’re not going to agree politically but I will say this-

    while it is great to see Spencer on Fox, on one hand it’s kind of like preaching to the choir. (like seeing a guy on Rachel Maddow advocate gay marriage)

    If we’re going to win this thing against Islamic oppression we need allies on all sides! We need the Jon Stewarts and Rachel Maddows on our side, and the Harry Reids and anyone else. We can’t allow being against Islamic oppression to be only a “Republican” thing (and let liberals tar it as “racism”) so I do says that Spencer and everyone else has a responsibility to reach out to liberals and help change their ways of thinking.

    If Spencer appeared on TDS then that’d be the best way- Spencer has facts on his side so I think he could win there. Don’t get me wrong, Jon Stewart is a great guy but when it comes to Islam? Extremely naive. He just needs help with that issue and I think Robert’s the man for that.

  33. says

    Must close mouth….urges…John Stewart…Great Guy…argh…hard to keep silent…he sucks so bad…

    argh….

    Gonna be tough getting those that embrace totalitarianism to reject and condemn the totalitarianism inherent in islam…

  34. says

  35. says

    Only a muslim can rule muslim. West and east are unfit to control the teaching of islam .Totally not taught in west or east how to deal with a barberic nature of a muslim inborn and cultivated by Quranic teachings. .Let us leave them alone and control oil field as our investments return.

  36. says

    ” Then…Subliminal Spencer “.

    Lol ! That’s good ! I wonder why Roberts critics didn’t think that one up ? It’s right in line with their thought processes..

  37. says

    Why do you hate Fox? It’s the most balanced of any American broadcast network. It ain’t perfect but no American network is more balanced. Not one.

  38. says

    Bob,

    I suspect your thinking is destined to evolve in one of two ways…either your liberalism will reign in your concerns about Islam, or your concerns about Islam will reign in your liberalism.

  39. says

    Very good observation about Hitler and the likes of him, dear Wellington. We all know what happens, when Pandora’s box is opened. Having been founded in 1928 the Muslim Brotherhood is the first terrorist organisation of modern times. Today it’s wreaking havoc in the U.S. and Europe, and now it’s supposed to gain power in its country of origin. Poor Middle East, the road to pre-stone age times is being paved. Merry sharia!

  40. says

    Respecting your post to Bob Gill, you proved once again to be both succinct and accurate, my friend. I don’t know about you, Cornelius, but I have gotten quite tired of people frothing at the mouth about Fox News, Sarah Palin (it’s really extra frothing with her even though she has never said anything as ridiculous as Obama has—e.g., 57 states, the bomb dropped on Pearl Harbor and confusing Memorial Day with Veterans Day), Ann Coulter, Glenn Beck and others on the Right. Bet Bog Gill couldn’t name a single conservative at CBS News even though Fox has loads of liberals on their network to balance their admittedly right-wing tilt. As examples, you have Juan Williams, Susan Estrich, Ellis Henican, Kirsten Powers, Greta van Susteren, Mort Kondracke, Mara Liasson and Alan Colmes, who are liberals and regularly appear on Fox News as analysts, commenters, given their own show, etc. And how many on the right are there, while we’re at it, at NBC News (Joe Scarborough the only one I can think of) and ABC News (used to be Brit Hume and John Stossel but there both gone now)? Helps prove what I realized long ago and that is that diversity to a liberal means hearing the same liberal opinions from different liberals. No wonder so many of these rubes run interference for Islam time and time again. They’re clueless—all across the board. And they’re not very cordial either.

    Take care, pal. Thanks for reading my rant. Just had to spout. Of course, I can’t close without saying go Steelers.

  41. says

    I’ll repeat here what I said on the other thread, plus the source. Walid Shoebat is not very credible. I’d rather not use his testimonies for anything.

    Here’s from an article in the Jerusalem Post, a non-leftist Israeli newspaper (don’t know why it’s so messy, but nevermind):

    “Shoebat’s claim to have been a terrorist rests on his account of the purported bombing of Bank Leumi. But after checking its files, the bank said it had no record of an attack on its Bethlehem branch anywhere in the relevant 1977-79 period. Shoebat told The Jerusalem Post that this could be because the bank building was robustly protected with steel and that the attack may have caused little damage. Asked whether word of the bombing made the news at the time, he said, “I don’t know. I didn’t read the papers because I was in hiding for the next three days.” (In 2004, he had told Britain’s Sunday Telegraph: “I was terribly relieved when I heard on the news later that evening that no one had been hurt or killed by my bomb.”) Shoebat could not immediately recall the year, or even the time of year, of the purported bombing when talking to the Post by phone from the US. After wavering, he finally settled for the summer of 1977.”

    There’s more there.

    I’d like Shoebat to be real, but I think that we should be careful to check the facts and personalities on our side in this information war, for 2 reasons: 1) we should be different from the MSM and fake “liberals” who easily buy lies and hoaxes if they suit their political agenda (the “Jenin massacre”, the “Bush military records”, Al-Durah etc. etc. the list is really long), 2) if we inadvertently use a phony and it’s exposed it will cause us damage. We need our case to be solid.

  42. says

    Sorry, but that article certainly is not enough to label Walid a fraud or a conman; and since you find him so unreliable, then perhaps you should write Robert Spencer and request that he remove Walid Shoebat’s link fron his homepage – oh, and perhaps you should also write Fox News as well, since they saw fit to have Walid Shoebat on the air to be interviewed by Sean Hannity, alongside Andrew McCarthy! Stop bothering me with your silly arguments against Walid. Instead, simply contact Robert and Fox News.

    Hey I DARE you to send Robert that “article” about Walid Shoebat, and I bet he’ll tell you to stop bothering him with such silly nonsense too, lol …

  43. says

    “I’d like Shoebat to be real”-

    He is. Listen to what he says and see if you find any fault with it.

    Shoebat is being smeared like all of us because we tell the truth.

    These dubious accusations don’t make him unreal. Never forget what we’re up against: our enemies will go to any length to discredit us and to shut us up. That includes murder.

  44. says

    You really need to educate yourself about this man, Walid Shoebat. He is fighting AGAINST islam & company and he deserves your respect – not your failed attempts to discredit him. I have zero patience for people like you that would try to put a good and decent man down. Like Robert, he has had his life threatened by muslims many times, so show some respect.

  45. says

    “He is. Listen to what he says and see if you find any fault with it.

    Shoebat is being smeared like all of us because we tell the truth.

    These dubious accusations don’t make him unreal. Never forget what we’re up against: our enemies will go to any length to discredit us and to shut us up. That includes murder.”

    True, Sheik yer’mami, Walid Shoebat IS the real deal. The smear campaign that d&g has launched on this thread, as well as on another thread, needs to stop. Thank you for weighing in and supporting this brave man!

  46. says

    Wellington,

    With you all the way. Saw Colmes tonight on O’Reilly singing the praises of Al Jazeera…thought I might lose my dinner. Don’t know about you old buddy, but I’ve grown less and less tolerant of liberal bullshit, so much so that it’s hard for me to sit through an interview with one, much less read an article penned by one.

    It’s problematic because some of my loved ones and oldest friends are liberals. I see it as a failing on my part, but I’m not sure how to overcome it.

    Meanwhile, even though I have no vested interest in the outcome, I’m getting psyched for the Super Bowl. Though I’m pulling for the Pack, it won’t bother me in the least if the Steelers win…hell just knowing you’ll be on cloud nine will make it kind of cool for me. I just want it to be a cliff-hanger, either way. Something tells me I’ll be temporarily rooting for whoever is behind.

    Take care amigo.

  47. says

    I think that a great deal of the fascination with, the love that the left has for islam is the totalitarian nature of it.
    In much the way that some leftist moron within the Government recently bemoaned our system and praised the Chicom way of doing things. “They get things done”. Yep…even if it costs tens of millions of lives, it gets done.
    Same with islam. No time lag. The ayatollah finds justification for X in the koran, produces a fatwah and Bam! New law backed up by some truly nasty, barbaric fellows with clubs and knives.
    They get things done…

    islam is a lie and
    Truth is killing it.

  48. says

    I know who Walid Shoebat is, and BTW I’m not bothering you specifically, if this was a private correspondence I wouldn’t have even bothered to answer you, but there are other people reading.

    Now, as much as I appreciate what Shoebat is doing in terms of content (though I suspect he also has financial motives), the fact remains that the terror attack he claims to have carried out did not happen. He claimed he attacked an Israeli bank and that Israeli bank has no record of such attack. The Israeli bank has no reason whatsoever to lie about it. There are other holes in Shoebat’s story reported in the Jerusalem Post, and the Jerusalem Post has no reason to lie about it either, it isn’t a leftist newspaper nor an apologist for Islam, it’s a relatively conservative newspaper and I’m sure they’d love Shoebat to be real.

    The fact Shoebat was interviewed on Fox and CNN and other mainstream media isn’t an evidence for his credibility since journalism today has extremely law standards and ethics. Journalists are lazy and don’t bother checking the facts or studying the subject they purport to report about. That’s one of the reasons we’re in such dire straits.

    I’m quite aware of the fact the media and others are smearing the opposition, but we should make a distinction between those who are smeared unjustly and those who are truly dubious. For instance, both the BNP and the Dutch Party for Freedom are smeared as racists and Nazis, but in the case of the BNP it is based in reality, while in the case of Geert Wilders it’s totally baseless, so the fact both of them were smeared in the same way by the same people for the same purpose shouldn’t make us assume both of them are equally innocent and accused unjustly. I have no reason to doubt Robert Spencer because all he claims is that he studdied Islam and I don’t know any fact that contradicts his claim, while Walid Shoebat claims to be an ex-terrorist, but the terror attack he claims to have committed didn’t happen, which is a pretty serious problem for someone who claims to be an ex-terrorist. If the terror attack didn’t happen then he’s not an ex-terrorist.

    We can get all emotional about it because we want Shoebat to be real, but isn’t substituting emotion and wishful thinking for ration and evidence what got us in the current global mess in the first place?

  49. says

    The “hawks” and “doves” she talks about are:

    MB Hawks: Sharia to be instituted by any means necessary including violence.

    MB Dove: Against violence. Sharia must be implemented on the world in a stealth fashion especially through Democratic means.

    Our current president and the one before him sees danger in the former but nothing wrong with the latter as long as its delivered in a fair, election just like the one Hitler won back a few years ago. This warped thought refuses to call the the exact ends of both groups wrong and a crime against humanity as it should be.

  50. says

    “What’s next? Vegetarian cannibals? Sensitive rapists? Merciful halal butchers? Humanitarian Nazis?”

    I don’t know how I missed the doves and the hawks part. Maybe it was just too much and my brain decided to skip it to avoid blowing up. So now we have Muslim Brotherhood doves. And I have a bridge to sell in California, any buyers?

    At least they admit they have hawks too, which is better than the crap Baradei sold ABC, or the CNN “reporter” gushing about how the MB “has tirelessly, and in many cases quite courageously, campaigned in elections, it has campaigned against the government, it has campaigned on behalf of the poor in Egypt.” It also happnes to be a revolutionary Islamist movement dedicated to creating a brutal sharia based Islamic state and as a side show also professes genocidal Jew-hatred, but why bother with such trivialities?

  51. says

    It’s like the Islamic Movement in Israel – there’s the extremist northern branch that wants to destroy Israel and the moderate southern branch that just wants to “change” it. I think this entire movement should be outlawed for sedition and a conspiracy to overthrow democracy. Instead its people are allowed to participate in elections. Fortunately Israel is majority Jewish.

  52. says

    This distinction between MB doves and hawks are not two differing factions, but rather two heads of the same hydra, or two arms of the same person. The right jab and the left hook are working together, not against each other.

  53. says

    “The smear campaign that d&g has launched on this thread, as well as on another thread, needs to stop.”

    OK, now you pi**ed me off. You’re really acting childishly. The Jerusalem Post is usually a reliable source and if Bank Leumi says it has no record of the attack then it didn’t happen. That’s not a smear campaign, but factual information. As an Israeli why would I want to discredit Shoebat if he were what he claims to be? What possible interest can I have in discrediting him?

    We should be careful not to use sources whose stories are unreliable and can be easily debunked since it’s going to damage US and not the other side. And indeed writing to Fox is a good idea so they know not to use him either.

    Shoebat could have done more good had he not invented parts of his biography. Lying about his biography discredits everything else he says, which might cause more harm than good. We should only use reliable sources to present a solid case or else every hole in it will be used to discredit our entire case.

  54. says

    “The smear campaign that d&g has launched on this thread, as well as on another thread, needs to stop.”

    It’s the truth, so don’t get po’d …

    Also, Walid Shoebat responded to the false charges leveled against him – the ones leveled by Jorg Luyken of The Jerusalem Post, so you need to read his response before judging Walid. Do the research and you’ll find his response. I mean it’s only fair that you take the time to do that before judging him and prematurely launching your smear campaign against him. The information regarding his response is very easy to find, so do your homework before charging Walid as GUILTY. Remember, a man is considered innocent until PROVEN guilty, and that Jerusalem Post article does not qualify as valid evidence against Walid. And trust me, you will be pleasantly surprised to learn that someone else is the fraud, and it ISN’T Walid.

    And challenging your ill conceived position about Walid does not make me childish – as you allege, but it makes me willing to confront you and hopefully get you to think before you speak by examining ALL the facts first.

  55. says

    “Listen to what he says and see if you find any fault with it.” — Sheik yer’mami

    Take “Sheik yer’mami’s” advice and listen to what he has to say …

    And have you even bothered to watch the Fox News interview I posted earlier?

    Watch it, and then comment on Walid’s input on that basis. You are getting this thread off-track with your “article”. And you should also ask yourself this question, would anything written in The Jerusalem Post EVER be admitted as evidence in a court of law? I can flatly tell you, NO! I mean, come on …

    I do welcome your response to what Walid had to say on the video I provided though.

  56. says

    I’m not reading anything you write until you retract the “smear campaign” accusation, you little fart. What YOU’RE doing to me is a smear campaign. I base my opinion on logic and facts and write politely with rational arguments and instead of responding civilly with counter facts and arguments, you take the MSM method of ad hominem attacks and false accusations about my motivations. You’ll do very well as a CNN reporter. Why don’t you try it? I’ve heard they pay pretty well and you don’t need much qualifications.

  57. says

    1) The reason Spencer isn’t on the Daily show is because his message is anathema to the liberal narrative, which is that minorities are innately benign and victimized. No amount of empirical evidence proving Islamic intolerance and supremacism will change that. You see, because multiculturalism is the child of relativism, if even one element of the mosaic proves to be malevolent, the whole theory comes apart. The liberal/left would rather perpetuate a lie than let that happen. Hence, “Islam is peace”.

    2) High tax rates for the investor class (those ugly millionaires and billionaires you seem to despise) suck money out of the productive economy, stifling economic activity and facilitating capital flight to more accommodating domains. Lower tax rates bring a better return for the investor class, creating a healthy climate for investment and job creation, not only keeping domestic money from being invested abroad, but attracting foreign money. This is fact.

    The great historian Will Durant was certainly a liberal as evidenced in his writing, yet in all of his detailed appraisals of European development, he consistently links the draw of capital and economic growth with favorable tax rates.

    3) Obamacare is a tangled nightmare that will cost the treasury trillions over decades and unravel the best health-care in the world. Under the existing system, the destitute are insured via automatic access to Medicaid. The 40 million who are uninsured are primarily those who are self-employed or work for small businesses. There were other ways to help insure them than to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

    I’m writing all this on the assumption that you’re worth the effort. Don’t disappoint.

  58. says

    http://newsbusters.org/blogs/lachlan-markay/2010/12/20/study-claiming-fox-news-viewers-misinformed-fraught-errors
    I’ll leave that to speak for itself, assuming that your video, which I would just as soon watch as any other propaganda deals with this subject.
    You fail to recognize the very few Americans are watching the other networks. There is a reason for that. When one is lied to over and over and over one tends to figure it out. When the Truth is heard, in contrast, it instantly stands out as such and attracts viewers. Thus the liars fail and the those that spread at least more Truth than the others, they prosper. Or do you believe as many do, that Liberals are inherently more intelligent and better educated than Conservatives? You know…the typical elitist viewpoint of the typical elitist Liberal.;) (Is my brush wide enough?)
    that said…I’m pleased as punch that you can see the danger of sharia law and the threat it presents to Freedom. Welcome Brother.

    islam is a lie and
    Truth is killing it.

  59. says

    No, I will not retract the truth since you have been on a smear campaign against Walid; also, it appears that you’re fully capable of smearing yourself without any help from me, lol …

    Hmm, and it seems that you can dish it out towards Walid Shoebat, but you aren’t able to take it. Well, you have some nerve demanding a retraction from me when you’re profoundly guilty of smearing an honest and decent man like Walid Shoebat.

    Oh, and it seems that you haven’t done your homework yet. Remember? I asked you to please research the facts surrounding the Jerusalem Post article that you provided. Facts that show how completely FALSE that article is. Hey send that article to Robert Spencer, I’m sure that he’ll be happy to clear things up for you.

  60. says

    My future intentions regarding Walid Shoebat, and my final offer to you, along with my last word on the subject …

    As long as Robert Spencer sees fit to have Walid’s link on Jihad Watch’s homepage, then I will *continue* to post links and/or interviews that Walid has done when appropriate to the thread – as I did on this thread, so you’ll just have to deal with that.

    On the other hand, if you do decide to take me up on my challenge by writing Robert and sending him that article from The Jerusalem Post, and he in turn decides that Walid must in fact be a fraud – and Robert removes his link, then I will follow suit and never mention Walid’s name again on this forum.

    But if Robert does keep Walid Shoebat’s link on Jihad Watch, then you need to backoff and respect Robert’s decision to support Walid Shoebat. My offer is both right, fair, and reasonable, so the ball is in your court – in fact, its been in your court since yesterday.

    Yesterday I challenged you to write Robert and send him that JP article, but for whatever reason you refuse to do that. Your actions speak volumes about what you must truly think of this article, otherwise you WOULD have written Robert by now.

    OK, so that’s my challenge to you. Either put up, or shut up …

    And if Robert does decide to remove Walid’s link from Jihad Watch, then I will also issue the retraction that you’re demanding. But you don’t get something for nothing, you must write Robert. And as I just stated, this offer is fair, right, and reasonable, so what are you waiting for …

  61. says

    Bob Gill,

    I prefer a voucher and/or tax credit option:

    1. Let the government give every person or family that needs it a voucher and or tax credit worth some decent amount for the purchase of health care insurance in the private market.

    2. This will hugely expand the private market for health insurance and increase competition there, which will bring ongoing downward pressure to bear on insurance prices, while leading to continuous quality improvements.

    3. Permit the purchasing of health insurance across state lines, which will also increase competition, and thus force down prices while forcing up quality.

    4. The government should regulate the private insurance market, not participate in it or compete with it. If the government competes, it won’t be able to be an impartial regulator. Nor will the government be likely to be able to set up a fair competition, when the government itself has a vested interest in the outcome of that competition.

  62. says

    Furthermore, if the government sets up a “public option” and starts offering insurance below the market price, that will not force private insurers to lower their prices. That will just force them out of the market. The government can get away with producing things at a loss. It just adds to the deficit. But private parties that keep producing at a loss must eventually go out of business. That is why arbitrary price controls introduced by the government lead to shortages: private producers can’t afford to produce at a loss, so they stop producing the price-controlled product, and focus on other products. And at the very moment production shrivels for the price-controlled product, demand for it rises, because it is being sold at an artificially low price, so increasing numbers of people want to buy it. Price-controls force supply and demand out of equilibrium and create shortages.

  63. says

    “The deficit rose precipitously under Reagan and started to go down under Clinton.”

    Clinton enjoyed the benefits of the tax cuts that Reagan put in place in response to the deficit. It took years for results. Clinton did nothing to affect this change.

    “Then, Bush rose it to 11 trillion from 6 trillion. Obama inherited a gigantic financial crisis, 2 wars and a sluggish economy.”

    Not sure where you got those numbers but…I’m not a fan of Bush. Here are some numbers that I can back up.

    Obama has repeatedly claimed that his budget would cut the deficit by half by the end of his term. But as Heritage analyst Brian Riedl has pointed out, given that Obama has already helped QUADRUPLE the deficit with his stimulus package, pledging to halve it by 2013 is hardly ambitious. The Washington Post has a great graphic which helps put President Obama’s budget deficits in context of President Bush’s.
    What’s driving Obama’s unprecedented massive deficits? Spending. Riedl details:

    * President Bush expanded the federal budget by a historic $700 billion through 2008. President Obama would add another $1 trillion.
    * President Bush began a string of expensive finan­cial bailouts. President Obama is accelerating that course.
    * President Bush created a Medicare drug entitle­ment that will cost an estimated $800 billion in its first decade. President Obama has proposed a $634 billion down payment on a new govern­ment health care fund.
    * President Bush increased federal education spending 58 percent faster than inflation. Presi­dent Obama would double it.
    * President Bush became the first President to spend 3 percent of GDP on federal antipoverty programs. President Obama has already in­creased this spending by 20 percent.
    * President Bush tilted the income tax burden more toward upper-income taxpayers. President Obama would continue that trend.

    * President Bush presided over a $2.5 trillion increase in the public debt through 2008. Setting aside 2009 (for which Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for an additional $2.6 trillion in public debt), President Obama’s budget would add $4.9 trillion in public debt from the beginning of 2010 through 2016.

    UPDATE: Many Obama defenders in the comments are claiming that the numbers above do not include spending on Iraq and Afghanistan during the Bush years. They most certainly do. While Bush did fund the wars through emergency supplementals (not the regular budget process), that spending did not simply vanish. It is included in the numbers above. Also, some Obama defenders are claiming the graphic above represents biased Heritage Foundation numbers. While we stand behind the numbers we put out 100%, the numbers, and the graphic itself, above are from the Washington Post. We originally left out the link to WaPo. It has now been added.

    CLARIFICATION: Of course, this Washington Post graphic does not perfectly delineate budget surpluses and deficits by administration. President Bush took office in January 2001, and therefore played a lead role in crafting the FY 2002-2008 budgets. Presidents Bush and Obama share responsibility for the FY 2009 budget deficit that overlaps their administrations, before President Obama assumes full budgetary responsibility beginning in FY 2010. Overall, President Obama’s budget would add twice as much debt as President Bush over the same number of years.
    You lose.

    “Health care costs are ridiculous in this country. We should have a public option that competes with the private monopolies and forces them to offer more affordable services.”
    The “Public Option” is the death knell for the health insurance industry and you must surely know it. I agree that health care costs are high. I had a heart attack and it cost me bigtime. Funny thing though. As soon as they found out I didn’t have health insurance…all my bills went way down. When you never even see the bill, you don’t care what it costs and they don’t care what they charge you. The bill will be paid. If not for insurance companies paying bills without question things would be quite different.

    “And yes, we have the best health care but only for those rich enough to afford it.”
    Wrong. You get the care you need regardless. No one asked me for cash up front. They put me in the Cardiology unit pronto and operated without question or hesitation to save my life. Same with nearly all ailments. There are numerous ways to get what you need no matter what.
    I have a friend from High School that started doing crack cocaine some35 years ago… I think he’s on his 5th or 6th heart valve now. Never paid a dime of any of it. Lives for free and gives back nothing and he gets top shelf healthcare. We lose and..
    You lose again.

  64. says

    I wish that Jihadwatch readers would realise that people can have a range of views on every topic – we don’t have to be uniformly conservative – and still be anti-Islamization. Any time somebody makes an off-hand, yet slightly negative, reference to Sarah Palin or any other right wing hero, they are pounced upon and the thread turns into a debate about politics.

    Yes, very often people’s views shift considerably further to the right after they start studying Islam and Islamization, but not necessarily on *every* conceivable issue.

    Even after learning about Islam and all it entails, people still may have negative views of Fox News, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, the American healthcare system, for a whole variety of reasons. Please just accept that, for the sake of the anti-jihad movement.

  65. says

    “I am going to start to evaluate my impression of the wisdom that American people I thought they had.”

    Yeah like those that voted for Obama, so I feel your pain …

  66. says

    Sarah was my Mayor before she was my Governor. She did not abandon us when we needed her as you assert. We have done quite will despite her absence.
    She serves a greater cause and her affect on the recent elections cannot be denied.
    I will say simply that you are a victim of the Liberal Media and the way they present her. She is a Patriot and an asset to this nation.
    I’m proud to say that she was my Governor and I stand by the great work she has done since choosing to serve the nation and not just Alaska.
    Oh..and the fact that it made her a Millionaire is OK by me to. Her face, her shows have done great things for the Tourist industry up here. The guys that fly in to the Bush in particular. Did you notice the new show featuring them?
    I would defend her against all your accusations but that’s tiresome and I do enough of it at the Anchorage Daily News, the Liberal rag here in Alaska.
    If you insist though, I’ll be back to better inform you…

  67. says

    Thank you Ole Hartling for your extensive philosophical, theological and historical analysis. Particularly with the discussion of how Hassan al-Banna was inspired by the Nazi Brownshirts and the thinking of Qutb you are taking us to the core of modern Islamist thought which we will need to understand if we are to ever change it.

    Before delving deeper into this might I suggest you could also find it helpful to study the challenge posed to Ali by the “pious reciters of the Qur’an” and they kept chanting “Government is God’s, not thine Ali”. It speaks of a puritan, unreasoning inability to consult about new approaches, test out ideas and perfect them over time. The great successes of democracies have been their ability to improve themselves over time.

    As part of this analysis we should also consider the impact on Islamic thinking the efforts of ‘Abd-i’l-Wahhab (1703-93) in the Saudi Arabian Peninsula. This was an even earlier attempt to purify Islam by taking it back to its earliest roots.

    Such efforts are not singular to Islam. Various Christian groups have sought to emulate the perceived pristine moments when Jesus walked and worked with the disciples. And clearly there are a spectrum of belief systems within Judaism All this is to say that the human mind has a hard time working with the gray areas between “black and white extremes”.

    Is such analysis of any value? I hope that by better understanding the thinking of people like Qtub I can better arrive at alternative perspectives that can be raised in discussions with Muslim friends. I acknowledge that the people longing for answers will want to seek out the tried and proven, but in these very new and different times old systems and beliefs do not answer the complex questions of how the patterns of the world have shifted. How is it that military prowess has shifted to non-Muslim lands because of dramatic technological advances?

    In the long term I take hope in the power of new thoughts akin to Martin Luther’s 95 points to define new possibilities. I believe that Martin Luther King’s “I have a dream speech” is more powerful than the calls for Jihad and the imposition of Sharia law. The Klan and racial prejudice have been washed away by the power of new thinking that has swept through this country in the last sixty years.

    The better we can articulate a new vision the more effective we become?

  68. says

    “Just because people have raised doubts about his biography doesn’t mean the objections are true.”

    Exactly, John …yes, what matters more than gossip and rumor, is that Walid fights AGAINST islam, and works tirelessly – just as Robert does, in fighting against this evil cult, and in warning the world about islam. He is a decent and honorable fellow warrior against islam, as is of course Robert Spencer.

  69. says

    “Ah, socialized medicine- he got free treatment. Sounds good to me.”
    Since when are charities set up by Churchs, Hospitals and Doctors “Socialized Medicine”?
    I think you need to get a dictionary and set yourself straight.
    I’m tired of tryin’…