What if the shoe were on the other foot, and another campus group were found to have conspired to deny the right of free speech to a member of a fashionable left-wing cause in exactly the same manner?
For this case, pressing charges against these Muslim students is inimical to "the healing process." Never mind those promoting the "healing process" here are going against their own psychobabble: every armchair therapist knows you can't "let the healing begin" while sweeping problems under the rug and rewarding bad behavior.
Except when your views don't count, apparently. So... shut up and "heal!" An update on this story. "100 UC Irvine faculty members ask district attorney to drop charges against Muslim students," from the LA Times, February 9 (thanks to Craig):
A group of 100 faculty members at UC Irvine signed a letter asking the Orange County district attorney to drop criminal charges against 11 Muslim students who disrupted a speech by the Israeli ambassador to the United States.
The group, including five deans, said the Muslim Student Union was wrong to disrupt the speech last year by Ambassador Michael Oren but that the students and the group had already been disciplined by the university.
Orange County prosecutors announced last week they were charging the students with two misdemeanor counts, including conspiracy to disrupt the speech. If convicted, each faces up to six months in jail.
The decision to charge the students, the faculty letter says, "sets a dangerous precedent for the use of the criminal law against nonviolent protests on campus."
Once again: what if the shoe were on the other foot?
It goes on to argue the charges are harmful and divisive to the school and risk "undoing the healing process" after widespread debate erupted following the protest and the decision to temporarily suspend the group.
Are your students that emotionally fragile, or are you just insulting their intelligence?
"I think there was a great deal of dismay that the DA was reviving what we thought had been a closed chapter in the university's history," said UC Irvine history professor Jon Wiener.
The district attorney has argued that the students organized to squelch the speaker in clear violation of the law. The students are set to be arraigned March 11 in Santa Ana.
It'd be best just to force all American colleges and universities into bankruptcy. Pull back the federal welfare checks in the form of tuition subsidies and pffft! down they go. Financially bankrupt for their moral bankruptcy.
New schools could then be started, with lower prices, lower wages, no tenure, and processes to force professors to alway have to reconcile with the facts. This crazy thing called "reality" we keep running into outside the lecture hall.
Here's a thought - why doesn't Saudi Arabia return Medina to the Jews, you know, to promote "healing??"
A sign certain of the presence of cancer is an wound or cut that will not heal.
As many critics of Islam, too numerous to cite, have noted, Islam is a cancer to humanity, contributing nothing in itself, but robbing healthy organisms of their inherent goodness.
These 100 "faculty members" calling for the healing process (cough, cough)would pervert, by preventing, justice, excusing the very ideology that will never allowing any healing.
When it comes to Islam, healing is impossible because Islam is inherently evil.
Backing down is the exact wrong thing to do.
Nothing says "I'm ready for you to behead me now" like letting a muslim off the hook for such acts of jihad.
APF, I couldn't agree more. How did we let all these little kingdoms full of despots run the place for so long now?
Accountability is also important in the healing process. So is growing up. If these students are our future leaders they need to learn that lesson now. If they don't they will always believe it is okay to defame, damage or kill anyone who disagrees with them.
Another good one Ms. Seibold. Your line, "So.. . shut up and "heal!" captures UC's intent very well. They could also mean, "So... shut up and heel - like good little dogs. And keep the money coming."
This video is a look into the claim that Allah is God and a comparison between the god of the Qu'ran and the God of the Bible.
JAY SMITH
http://www.antisharia.com/2011/02/09/is-allah-god/
This video is a look into the claim that Allah is God and a comparison between the god of the Qu'ran and the God of the Bible.
JAY SMITH
http://www.antisharia.com/2011/02/09/is-allah-god/
How did we let all these little kingdoms full of despots run the place for so long now?
I was listening to Rush Limbaugh over lunch a couple of yrs ago, and a caller with a southern accent lamented our colleges and universities as "islands of Marxism."
Rat on to that observant fellow. I'll never foret that one.
*** 33:21 ***
When it comes to Islam, healing is impossible because Islam is inherently evil.
Actually, Diane, I look at Islam and its Moslems as form of viral infection, sorta like Ghonorrea or HIV. These Moslems can infect Infidels with suppurated sores in their brains, the greenish black pus flowing down into our once great Judeo-Christian culture.
Ain't nothing ever gonna get cured by Islam. In fact, I propose that America outlaw the licensing of Moslem as doctors, police, teachers and firemen. We Infidels would have a better survival rate.
If only, Alarmed Pig Farmer, if only; but I'm afraid that things will have to start on a smaller scale. In American colleges and universities, departments like "Education," and "Communications," could be severely trimmed back without losing a thing. Programs in the Humanities should be revised, renewed, and have much tougher standards.
I've heard about a recently published book titled Academically Adrift which, according to reports, not only damns higher education in the United States, but includes a good deal of supporting data.
Without a doubt, tuition for many schools is far higher than it ought to be. For far too long many of these schools have not served the American public well.
It would be very interesting to read what Wellington has to say on the subject.
According to UC's website they have 1200+ faculty and researchers which means less than 10% signed the petition.
I'd like to know how many were asked and refused to sign.
Maybe they just left the petition under the wiper blades of all the Prius(insert plural suffix here)in the faculty parking lot.
BTW: Prius is actually a French word that means "prick" and almost as ironic is the fact that "prick" actually means "French" in English.
Our old 'friend' al jubair and his nefarious activities:
Number of Sowdi 'student clubs' has risen from 40 to 150
Moudhi Al-Khalaf, the head of cultural and social affairs at the Cultural Attaché’s Office and secretary of the Saudi Student Clubs, said that the number of clubs had risen from 40 to 150, and that they had also expanded their range of activities.
I say follow the money. The petrodollars are coming back to bite us in the ass!
http://saudigazette.com.sa/index.cfm?method=home.regcon&contentID=2011020993333
'...and a caller with a southern accent lamented our colleges and universities as "islands of Marxism."'
Well, it's been going on for a long time now. I remember when I was in school back in the late 70's in Southern California and everyone was up in arms because Proposition 13 was going to destroy our schools. I was studying fashion design at the time and one of the biggest concerns was that if Prop. 13 passed we would no longer be able to receive our monthly subscriptions to Women's Wear Daily, Vogue, Glamour and all numerous other publications. (We used them for design ideas.) The good liberal faculty and sometimes hippies (this was really close to Laguna) were shocked, SHOCKED that the peasants were more interested in having their property taxes lowered than sacrificing for the good of fashion and fashion designer wannabe students all over the South Land. I remember having a discussion about it with some students who looked at me like I had two heads when I said I thought we could all chip in and buy those magazines and I'd be happy to do it if it would lower my parents' property taxes.
No, no, no. Selfish is as selfish does and we are paying for it now, BIG TIME.
Dropping the charges "to promote the healing process" is what the Egyptian police force the copts to do when copts have been attacked by muslim egyptians.
Where is the defence of free speech against a "conspiracy to disrupt the speech" ? These faculty seem to side in favour of preventing free speech.
If only, Alarmed Pig Farmer, if only...
Yeah, I hear ya, Classic. Worse even than the things you point out is that fact that in our Pedigree Puppy Mills (Harvard, Yale, Penn, Northwestern, Duke, USC, etc.) we have concnetrated into the hands of a small number of professors the right to issue tickets to get automatic fast-track-to-executive jobs into some very highly-placed places, such as:
Gubmint Sachs (it only recruits form 3 universities)
CIA
State
Congress (to start as an aide)
Morgan Stanley
Cabinet level departments such as Justice, Labor, Commerce, etc.
Thereby, a few thousand professors at most -- Geezers all -- have become able to set their weak minded anti-freedom reality detached idological mindset in the Halls of Power, and as the baseline no less.
Vraiment?
prior prius genit. -oris , compar. adj. [fore, former], of place or time; [higher in importance]; m. pl. as subst. [ancestors]. N. acc. as adv., prius, [before, previously; formerly; sooner, rather]; prius quam, or priusquam, conj., [before]. Superl. primus -a -um, [first, foremost], of place or time; of rank, etc. [first, most distinguished]; '(partes) primae', [the leading part]; 'in primis', [especially]. N. acc. as adv., primum, [at first or for the first time]. N. abl. primo, [at first].
Prick, the American-English noun, among many other slang terms in French, is: biroute.
Why the little dig at the French?
Can someone find the judge's address so that we can send letters requesting the full weight of the law be used against these enemies of freedom of speech?
Is that 100 dhimmis in UC Irvine... unless it's already 100 devout muslims ?
A few years ago, my brother, a military officer still on active duty, took an MA at Harvard. He had a very difficult time with the graduate students there when he began to see how ignorant so many of them of them were about Western history in general and military history in particular. Some of these students, the pampered children of America's elite, have never had to struggle for anything, have never worked the land as a farmer or a rancher might, have never been in a situation in which a decision they must make would have grave, irreversible consequences (as in combat), or, worst of all, have never learned to put others before themselves - in other words, have never had to serve anybody or anything. As he told me, "For many of them, it is as if reality and contingency do not exist." It means, I think, that these schools are failing to impart wisdom. Miserably so.
I know how "healed" I feel when someone talks about genocide for the Jews...sarc/off
no need for any healing....
just let the muslime bastards rot in jail!
point.
I agree exactly! Throw the book at these "disruptors"! In this situation, nothing would be worse than letting them off the hook. Caving to this pressure would send a message that they can do almost anything without any kind of consequence whatsoever. It really makes me sick!
I'm sure the 100 do not represent a cross-section of the faculty. I'd be willing to wager $100 sight unseen that the 100 signatories have a history of "anti-Zionist" activities.
College is a time when young adults learn many lessons that they will carry with them throughout their lives. In this case the young muslim students need to learn that they can't go around violently disrupting speech that they simply disagree with. We are a society with laws and punishments for those who break the laws. Since colleges these days are really, really pushing multi-culturism, tolerance, understanding of those different than oneself, etc etc, I suggest that the court give the following punishment, all in the name of higher education and multiculturism: force the muslim students to perform community service, perhaps in a church or temple, or perhaps a veteran's group, or maybe even in an animal shelter. Let them learn that there are others in this world who might not be just like them or share the same views as them, but then again, that's all right. Once the muslim students see the error of their ways, true "healing" can begin. I'm sure the deans and faculty of UC Irvine would be in agreement. (sarc-off)
College is a time when young adults learn many lessons that they will carry with them throughout their lives. In this case the young muslim students need to learn that they can't go around violently disrupting speech that they simply disagree with. We are a society with laws and punishments for those who break the laws. Since colleges these days are really, really pushing multi-culturism, tolerance, understanding of those different than oneself, etc etc, I suggest that the court give the following punishment, all in the name of higher education and multiculturism: force the muslim students to perform community service, perhaps in a church or temple, or perhaps a veteran's group, or maybe even in an animal shelter. Let them learn that there are others in this world who might not be just like them or share the same views as them, but then again, that's all right. Once the muslim students see the error of their ways, true "healing" can begin. I'm sure the deans and faculty of UC Irvine would be in agreement. (sarc-off)
"A group of 100 faculty members at UC Irvine signed a letter asking the Orange County district attorney to drop criminal charges against 11 Muslim students who disrupted a speech by the Israeli ambassador to the United States."
Did they each receive 30 pieces of silver?
From page 464 (690 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, Muhammad presides over the beheading of 600 to 900 Jews:
Your direct, first-hand and excellent post, classicus, about the situation at Harvard, a la your brother, is revealing of how clueless most of the Western elites are nowadays. I attribute almost all of this cluelessness, this special kind of stupidity that only well educated people are capable of, to what I call "Leftthink."
Many times here at JW I have endeavored to distinguish between old-fashion liberalism, a la Truman and Attlee, from modern liberal thought which began in the narcissistic Sixties and which has infected reason and common sense exponentially down to the present day. Understand, I am a conservative in full Ronald Reagan mode (this being almost indistinguishable from Thomas Jefferson liberalism), but at least I can respect the old liberals like Patrick Moynihan, who wanted more government than I'm comfortable with, but who still could identify and tackle evil with as much vigor as conservatives. This old liberalism is almost gone, evinced by a few ghosts of a politician out there, from time to time, like Senator Lieberman.
Islam is a great menace to be sure. Only fools and liars will argue otherwise. It is replete with authoritarian demands all over the place for what should happen in this world. But even worse than Islam, miscreant excuse for a religion that it is, is the astonishing foolishness of the Modern Left. Were the Modern Left not existent, Western Civilization would know what to do to stop yet another totalitarian ideology, asleep for many centuries and now revived due to oil revenues, Muslim demographics and the twin stupidities of political correctness and multiculturalism, from trying to impose its control-freak vision of the world upon all of us.
The free world is faced with a gigantic double whammy against it---Islam and the idiocy of the Western Left. Actually, I think liberty will survive both, including those totalitarian-like speech codes that modern liberals have embraced with moronic enthusiasm, but it's going to be a close call. Hope you and yours are doing well.
in september 2002, mr benjamin netanyahu was to give a speech at concordia university in montreal. it never happened. the muslime goons have trashed and destroyed the lobby and it got to the point indeed, that montreal's police could not guarantee protection from the muslime mob...
i was there. i have witnessed the raw hatred in the eyes of the muslime 'students' doing what they do best - destroy, intimidate, disrupt...
the california muslimes that have similarly disrupted
ambassador oren's speech should be given the heaviest penalty possible and then some...
what a pathological mutation this islam is...
a truly cancerous growth attacking the host..
the cure must be aggressive and delivered without flinching!
"A group of 100 faculty members at UC Irvine signed a letter asking the Orange County district attorney to drop criminal charges against 11 Muslim students who disrupted a speech by the Israeli ambassador to the United States."
A petition of university professors has no standing whatsoever in California courts, so the Orange County prosecutor should not only ignore this, but notify the professors that an investigation has been opened into whether they are guilty of attempting to obstruct justice.
Additionally, since California has a severe budget problem, and since the University of California Irvine is part of the 10 campus UC S funded by California taxpayers, the state could help ameliorate its budget shortfall by cutting back on faculty at the various UC campuses. It could start the ball rolling by not renewing the contracts of the provost, chancellor, and whatever deans have provided cover for the MSA at UC Irvine,, as well as these 100 professors, virtually all of which, I am betting, are from various social science departments. Including the various forms of benefits, the impact would be on the order of 50 million dollars a year, perhaps more, savings to the state. There would be an additional intangible benefit of purging the campus of those who support the enemies of America. The inevitable protests on other campuses would flush out their ideological supporters, and the process could be extended to them, as well. Repeat as necessary.
In order to heal you must first remove the infection.
It is always a pleasure to read what you have to say Wellington.
You mentioned Daniel Patrick Moynihan as a representative of an older kind of liberalism, a more clear-eyed variety. Classical liberalism may be a good label to describe the late senator Moynihan's thought. I can't imagine that he would have got on well with the likes of many of President Obama's appointees, or that he would have found common cause with the intellectuals of the Frankfurt School of neo-Marxist Sociology. Patrick Moynihan seemed to have had a few things so many current politicians lack - intellectual integrity, courage, and honesty balanced with prudence, as opposed to facile candor aligned with selective duplicity. His working-class background and his military experience no doubt contributed to the development of those qualities in him.
Generally, if a man learns to serve, and earns his place, he tends to be grateful. And I think that is what is lacking in these Muslims students. Gratitude. A group of Muslim students with an exaggerated sense of Islamic grievance and entitlement, meet faculty members who, as products of the indulgent sixties, believe in the therapeutic idea and a life of do-overs - a disastrous combination. There seem to no consequences for bad actions by these students. Simply put, for these students, and their teachers, nothing is contingent.
It is a little mysterious how this Leftthink has come to dominate in the institutions we look to defend intellectual integrity and wisdom - the colleges and universities (and sometimes the churches too). I think that the Romans would have understood our dilemma, at least I think that when I read Polybius. He described the cycle of revolutions very well. But writers like Polybuis are no longer widely read among the college educated, indeed, such reading never seems to be required. In addition, academics show a great reluctance to believe that there may be moral lessons in history - hence Leftthink grows. All the more strange that this should take place among the well-educated. But perhaps if these elites do not understand that Western accomplishments must be maintained and defended, we ought not to call them educated at all.
As a conservative Wellington, you must at times find yourself a lonely man among the academics. I admire your optimism, and for the most part I share it, but sometimes, when I read history and see how men seek to enslave themselves, it gives me pause. But that great double whammy can never be allowed to win no matter how difficult it sometimes appears to be, or free people will end as the speechless among the savages.
P.S. Everyone here is well and I hope the same is true of you and yours. If I recall, you hoped for a Steelers win in the Super Bowl. I'm sorry that your team lost. Maybe next time. I didn't have a team in the fight - the Seahawks didn't make it - so I just enjoyed the beer and all the more enjoyable it was too, just knowing that Muhammadens ban that great invention of liquid bread.
I've sent this article to Prof. Jon Wiener at U.C. Irvine: wiener@uci.edu (excellent comments). I asked for his opinion.
Let's hope he reads it and gives a response, though I doubt it.
There is only ONE way to deal with this, the thugs from the MSA who shouted down fee speech must be convicted and they need to get the highest possible punishment, which is 6 month in jail (that what its said in the article)!
Is that too hard?
No way it is too hard!
This is only way to deal with those thugs, a mild judgement, or a little slap WONT do any good, because being friendly to them will be considered by them as weak and that would be a free ride to do what they did even more. Shouting down a speaker will be come a sport and who cares when they get supspened for a little while, thats a small price for finally having their way!
As I said, the low lifes from the MSA need to face justice in full, that way they will know where the line is and by the next time they do it, it will be a lot easier to dicipline them.
So, yes lets boot those tugs into jail, so they maybe have a chance to reflect o their fascist actions.
Thank you for your gracious reply, classicus. Yes, it is a bit lonely at times out there in liberal academia land, but this is compensated at other times by the fun I have poking holes in moderal liberal arguments. This is actually not hard to do at all as long as one is grounded in the facts. As William Buckley Jr. said, if you know the facts, you'll be a conservative. Big "if" though.
As for the Steelers, yes, it was a disappointment seeing them lose, but it's difficult to prevail when you turn the ball over three times against a team like the Packers. Like you though, I did enjoy drinking liquid bread (good phrase) while watching the game. Maybe next year, assuming there will be a season and not a lockout.
Typical leftist treachery. If you're what liberals call an "evil right wing conservative," or other words that they use, such as "fundamentalist" or "non-conformist," by which they primarily mean Christians, conservatives, patriotic REAL Americans (unlike liberals) or military servicemen and servicewomen, by which they really mean those who do not think like them or have the "correct views around here," i.e. are non-liberal, then they believe in "free speech for us (liberals) but not for thee."
If a conservative professor or pupil even made one disparaging remark about liberals' precious Islam that were determined by the liberals to be "non-politically correct" or "offensive" to their communist "community standards" of one-sided indoctrination and dhimmitude, such as circulating a flier or email bringing attention to Islamic atrocities that can be confirmed just by reading their own dang Koran, the retard Deans or Provosts will systematically, and without regard for due process or First and Fourteenth Amendment rights, retaliate against the conservative professor or pupil, such as through summary expulsion or termination, for merely having "offended" Muslims or for not being "multicultural" enough, for not being "politically correct," or for being "biased." As if these liberal traitors are unbiased, neutral, and capable of objectivity? BS.
When liberal traitors of the Anti-American Left hold their inquisitions and indoctrinations against conservative faculty or pupils, they seek to violate conservatives' 1st and 14th Amendment rights, engage in disparate treatment, and engage in viewpoint discrimination, so that only they may their environment of unbridled Marxism and one-sided indoctrination. They truly are the Viewpoint Police, and they are no different, and no better, than the Muttaween, religious police, of Walt Wahabbo Dhimmitude Land (Saudi Arabia).
These traitors want free speech only for themselves, but not for conservatives. They want these disruptive Muslims to not pay the price for their actions, but they wouldn't hesitate to call for the termination or expulsion of any "evil white guy" or basically anyone who is conservative, white or coloured (such as myself), if the latter engaged in any kind of similar disruption against a liberal event. This is called double standards and disparate treatment, and thankfully conservative pupils and faculty have the right to sue these traitors and their board of governors/trustees/regents when they violate our rights in the name of their crap. The true prize of the conservative is to damage their reputation by publicizing and bringing negative limelight to negative facts which are true.
Those of you JW readers who find yourselves in a similar situation, such as for example, a Muslim sees you browsing JihadWatch.org on a school's computer, and complains that it "offends" him and makes him "feel unsafe" for you to visit such an "evil right-wing hate site," and at which point you get called in to an inquisition by a retard Dean or Provost, and there they attempt to lie to you about what the First Amendment truly protects, and they threaten chilling effect or censorship against you, and commit irreparable harm against you, it is your duty to fight back against these liberal traitors and cowards. Seek help from TheFire.org to fight back against them. I am not associated with TheFire.org, I just know of it, and they have come to the defense of conservatives before, especially as it relates to the right to criticize Islam, regardless of any "offence" it may cause to leftists and their precious Muslims.
Under no circumstances does anyone in America EVER have to worry about "whom we might offend" before speaking or writing. That would be unconstitutional chilling effect. And no one has any kind of right to "not be offended," LEAST of all the Islamists who are sworn to destroy all that is American or Christian.
The only way to fight back against these militants, is to get militant yourself, but only in a civil way. Fight fire with fire.
A few years ago, my brother, a military officer still on active duty, took an MA at Harvard.
Aw c'mon, Hahvad let in a solider? I thought our newest Supreme Elena put a quash on that already. Or, did your brother conceal his service by not mentioning it on his application and then changing in and out of uniform in a Men's Room in a pub or bookstore across Mass Avenue?
I've worked with a lotta Ivy Leaguers. In the computer biz we had two designations: 1) Ivy League Moron, and 2) Ivy League Survivor.
Whenever we'd run into a new Leaguer, after the meeting our group would immediately consult on which category would be used to describe this prideful alumnus.
Guess which category was by far the most used?
Healing has to start with repentence.
If the involved Muslim students apologize, promise not to disrupt anyone's speech again, and sponser Ambassador Michael Oren's return to give the speech that they denied him, then I would favor dismissal of the charges.
It's all about free speech don't you know unless it's Conservative speech which is automatically "hate speech" and must be condemned, ridiculed and stopped at all costs.
Aw c'mon, Hahvad let in a solider? I thought our newest Supreme Elena put a quash on that already.
You are correct to wonder. Harvard is famous for its anti military stance. The University banished the ROTC from campus forty years ago over the Vietnam War; but nevertheless, Harvard does indeed have some military officers as students - soldiers, sailors, airmen, and even the occasional marine. One way that military people become students there is under the National Security Program in Harvard's Kennedy School of Government. The students are known as National Security Fellows.
Whenever we'd run into a new Leaguer, after the meeting our group would immediately consult on which category would be used to describe this prideful alumnus.
No moron, my brother already had a graduate degree from a different school before he went to Harvard. It would be fair to say that he is the occasionally bemused survivor. He was very surprised to find himself at one of this country's elite schools only to encounter many students and some professors who had large gaps in their understanding of History. He recalls a conversation with one student, a vehement anti-militarist, who in a discussion about the Cold War and NATO forces, had no idea of the existence or the importance of the Fulda Gap or the North German Plain. One example among several.
As for being prideful, I don't think he is. His military experiences have been varied and often too grim for that. He was in the Pentagon on the day it was attacked and has had assignments that have taken him through Bosinia, East Africa, Egypt, Saudi Arabia and many other places.
Although originally directed towards a different class of leftist liberals, Lenin described those 100 professors accurately as "Useful idiots".
I'm with the poster above who made this observation:
'According to UC's website they have 1200+ faculty and researchers which means less than 10% signed the petition.
'I'd like to know how many were asked and refused to sign.'
*That* is the really interesting question.
How many were asked?
And if significantly more than 100 were asked, who are the people who refused to sign?
Is there any way we can find out?
Might be worth someone's while writing a letter to the campus newspaper on the subject; it could be interesting to see if they published it, and if so, what kind of a response it stirred up.