"Let's see...'It is not befitting to the majesty of Allah that He should beget a son...' OK..."
This soft-headed attempt at interfaith understanding was welcomed by the local Muslim leader, but not reciprocated, of course. Interfaith understanding between Christians, or whatever Lawler is, and Muslims is, as always, all in one direction.
"Episcopal cleric tries Islamic rituals for Lent," by Cynthia Billhartz Gregorian for the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, March 12 (thanks to Paul):
The Rev. Steve Lawler should have just given up chocolate or television for Lent.Instead, Lawler, of St. Stephen's Episcopal Church in Ferguson, decided to adopt the rituals of Islam for 40 days to gain a deeper understanding of the faith.
On Friday, he faced being defrocked if he continued in those endeavors.
"He can't be both a Christian and a Muslim," said Bishop George Wayne Smith of the Episcopal Diocese of Missouri. "If he chooses to practice as Muslim, then he would, by default, give up his Christian identity and priesthood in the church."
Lawler, a part-time rector at the church, didn't foresee such problems when he came up with the idea. He merely wanted to learn more about Islam, he said, especially in light of the ongoing congressional hearings on the radicalization of the faith.
On Wednesday, the first day of Lent, he began performing salah five times a day, by facing east, toward Mecca, and praying to Allah. He also started studying the Quran and following Islamic dietary restrictions by abstaining from alcohol, pork and fish.
During Holy Week, he planned to fast from dawn to sunset as Muslims do during Ramadan.
But in Smith's eyes, the exercise amounts to "playing" at someone else's religion and could be viewed as disrespectful.
Plus, he said, "One of the ways (Lawler) remains responsible as a Christian leader is to exercise Christianity and to do it with clarity and not with ways that are confusing."
When asked whether he would take punitive actions against Lawler if he continued with the rituals, Smith responded that yes, he would. He would be forced to depose him.
Lawler said he only planned to take his idea so far. For example, he did not intend to declare his belief in the oneness of God and to accept Muhammad as God's prophet. It's the first of the Five Pillars of Islam, which are obligatory for Muslims....
Lets see now, is it right arm over the left, or left over right? And are my toes to be stretched out at this point or curled? Oh man this is so confusing but I gotta get it right or all my prayers to the moon god won't count.
Oh shoot, I forgot to wash my feet first, and boy do they stink. Wudu this, wudu that, I can't keep it all straight, and this guidebook! I shoulda gotten one in English.
Maybe I should get a Muslim life coach. Yeah, that's it. He'll get me on the straight path so I can be rightly guided.
Hey, was this prayer rug ever cleaned? Ahmed at the mosque told me the rug had been used by a friend of his and that it was Ridahh-approved, model 9:29, so it should be okay,
That reminds me of this commentary Hugh Fitzgerald wrote about "enlightened" Western women confusing their playing "dress-up" using the externally visible symbols of Islam with actual, full-strength Islam.
Looks like guys can play, too.
And this is a second Episcopal priest. Remember Ann Holmes Redding?
The good news is that Redding was defrocked, and Lawler's bishop is also having none of it. The bad news, however, is that this problem could even crop up in the first place.
"He can't be both a Christian and a Muslim," said Bishop George Wayne Smith of the Episcopal Diocese of Missouri.
Ye cannot serve God and Mammon. Choose ye this day whom ye will serve.
Honestly, I'm becoming more of a lapsed-atheist every day!
Diametrical opposition. Sorry Steve.
"He [Lawler] merely wanted to learn more about Islam."
Islam denies that Jesus is the Son of God, so what more does Lawler need to know about Islam, in order to know well enough to reject it?
There is only one thing wrong with being a Christian Muslim, and it has nothing to do with religion, but everything to do with logic. ;-)
If the dhimmi stooge really wants a better understanding of the death cult he should travel to Pakistan or Iran or any number of Islamic countries and openly practice his faith, that way he will get to enjoy first hand the true version of Islam. How long he gets to enjoy it depends entirely on how long he lives. This man (er, I mean person) was born to prostrate himself in front any threat.
Indeed. He can't serve God and mahound/the black cube/allah (the three names and shapes of the same dang thing) at the same time.
I commend Mr. Lawler for making the effort to know more about Islam. I would suggest real study instead of aping rituals.
To learn more about loaded guns, would a fellow look at the 'hole' and pull the trigger? :))
What a fool of a dhimmi. His own faith clearly states to not act as people who worship different gods because to the christian god it is an abomination. The quran also admonishes the muslims not to act as unbelievers, or they will be counted among them and hellfire awaits them. By mixing them both, he has made a complete fool of himself. I don't believe in god, but I can't respect someone who doesn't stand by his own convictions.
Maybe he's given up Christianity for Lent. Is he going to do the complete role play and start beating his wife and molesting little girls?
If the Rev. Lawler could get a brief glimpse into the spiritual realm he would be terrified at what he would see. The advancing devils of Satan at his shoulders bent on taking his soul captive or, at least, if not possession, then oppression to the degree of inflicting great harm physically, mentally, and spiritually. I venture that the possibility exists that if he continues this tragic lunacy of a "curiosoty killed the cat" pursuit of the Satanic moon god for 40 days he might be unrecognisable to his family and congregants. I pray that some of my "luke warm" family that currently resides in St. Louis will not wander into St. Stephens anytime soon AND, much more important, I pray for the manifold Wisdom of God to infuse his spirit and soul to the very real danger he faces!
Will his adoption of "Islamic rituals" extend to the tradition of burning down a church (his own)?
This calls to mind the case of Ann Holmes Redding, the Episcopal priest who was defrocked in 2009 after announcing that she was both a Christian and a Muslim.
It'd be interesting to re-cap on Lawler's experiment in 40 days from now. .aside from seeing how his zebibah is shaping up, he may come up with some tales of the unexpected. .who knows, he may threaten to jump off the mountain and be told not to. .then he can start a whole new religion etc etc. Twerp. The guy needs a good shake.
"He merely wanted to learn more about Islam, he said, especially in light of the ongoing congressional hearings on the radicalization of the faith."
So why not study the koran? Then there are the Islamic holy books. No one would stop you from reading them.
Add to them the many books by Robert Spencer and others. Washington Irving wrote an excellent biography of Mohammed.
How does pretending to be a Muslim teach you about Islam?
I pray for Rev. Lawler to stop his little experiment now. Lent is a time of reflection, to learn about one's own faith and relationship with God. What does his family say of this? His congregation? His peers? Clearly his bishop is not pleased, and rightfully so. There seems to be no positive outcome from this. Steve needs guidance from God, and nothing else. He has the luxury of trying this and being reprimanded with his neck intact. We know what Christians in moslem countries are going through.
When Lent is over, will he go back to Christian rituals, and, if so, will he then be an apostate? Will he have to chop his own head off, or will there be volunteers from the local mosque ready to do that? Questions, questions.
During Holy Week, he planned to fast from dawn to sunset as Muslims do during Ramadan.
What Muslims do is not fasting. They simply refrain from eating from dawn to dusk. Twice a day they stuff their faces.
Someone should tell this man.
1) Believing in the sanctity of Jesus is one of the worst possible sins in Islam (Shirk) and there is a level of hell reserved for those who do.
2) The prayer he is saying is specifically damning Christians and Jews to hell. (Saudis have specifically added "such as the christians" and "such as the jews" to that prayer.
3) Islam teaches that Jesus will come back at armageddon and kill all the christians.
Ironically, by doing this he is giving up interfaith compassion and understanding for lent. Ooops.
So all in all not the not the most tastefull way to spend ones lent.
This is shocking to me, especially since this guy is in a position of Christian LEADERSHIP ...
So why on earth would Lawler, a practicing Christian, dabble in the occult? ...which is exactly what he's doing by practicing any aspects of islam.
This misguided pc/mc fool deserves an award of some kind. I don't know, perhaps dhimmi of the year? Uh huh! Although this creative practice of his seems to go one, or even TWO steps beyond the average dhimmi's call to duty. Well, he'll get my nomination and vote, that's for sure; and we can place a big, gold star next to his Dhimmi of the Year award, indicating *exceptional* service to dhimmitude.
Incredible. A total nutcase. I hope he gets defrocked, as he deserves. Go live in Yemen, you stupid idiot.
How's that Arabian moon god going for you, Lawler? BTW - it doesn't exist. Pathetic. Idiot.
Father Steve Lawler:
episcopalians@gmail.com
There's his e-mail, people. I looked it up on the St. Stephens's website.
WWJD?
NOT what you're doing, Episcopal cleric Steve Lawler.
I'm astounded at your dalliances with the principalities, the powers, and the rulers of darkness which rule this world.
Christains should be pround of there faith.
What better way to remember Christ's sacrifice than by emulating the worship of demons. If I were a member of his congregation my confidence in his scriptural knowledge would be sorely shaken, and I'd immediately move for his dismissal.
I don't think the saudis added that. But when a sheik is asked who are meant by 'those that transgress' or 'those that have gone astray' that is who they mean.
This evil do'er has no idea that unless he repents and soon he is damned forever because he has rejected the light of Christ for the darkness of Islam.The apostle Peter warned "for if after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the Holy comandment delivered to them...LIKE A DOG RETURNS TO ITS OWN VOMIT...2Peter 2:20-22`
I used to live in Saudi Arabia (previously as an irreligious American) and figured while I was there I would fast during Ramadan to know what my students were going through and also read the Quran (and various sunnah/hadeeth texts) so I could know what was in my students' minds - which was relatively easy since the Quran is recited on PA systems at neighboring mosques so I could keep myself paced throughout the month.
It was an interesting experience, and although I did not go through the prayer rituals (as I was irreligious and found them useless) I watched my students go through them numerous times. Moreover, not drinking alcohol and not eating pork was perfectly fine as well. (Both of which are illegal in Saudi Arabia but readily available on local black markets.)
More interesting, however, was the fact that after taking the time to read the Quran, I also then decided to read the Bible since my students kept asking questions about it but were forbidden from reading it since the Bible is banned for sale or distribution in Saudi Arabia. I found the Old Testament to be just a hair less disturbing than the Islamic texts (pretty violent, sleazy and disturbing nevertheless), but then I found the Jesus-based elements of the New Testament to be fundamentally opposite to the Quran and actually felt myself vastly more compelled to believe in Jesus after having had the Quran/Islam as a first comparison. Unexpectedly, I actually became a practicing Christian in Saudi Arabia of all places because of my knowledge of Islam.
My advice to Steve Lawler: no need to go trough the prayer motions and mimicking the routine of Muslims. Just read the Quran, the Hadeeth, and the Sunnah, and compare them all with the message of Jesus Christ in the New Testament, and you will have all the understanding you need.
In canada I had just challenged a United Church Minister that is also a Politician whom is crusading for the HUman Rights code to include "Gender-Identity" which is when a man claims there is a female inside and then wants the Right to use a womens washroom.
I'm all for Human Rights, who is not for them.....but during a Radio debate the Minister defended their stance to allow men in womens washrooms because it would not be a threat to little girls since it is already a Crime for a Adult male to expose themself to children in public.
But wait a moment here, this Politician has marched in the Toronto PRIDE parade for the last decade hwre the Naked males are allowed by the Gay-Police to expose their penis at little girls on Yonge Street.
If the Trans-gender and Trans-People that have a different gender inside them and the males can not expose themself to girls while in a washroom....then the Minister in the PRIDE parade has made a free-will choice to not reports crimes against children. or the Criminal Code violation in Sec.174 for public Nudity.
It's no shock when a self-professed Christian becomes a pro-Abortion/gay Marriage crusader just for the votes and stabs jesus in the back while doing it, but to smear Jesus as approving of Pedophiles and Child-abuse in public is really stretching it.
The audio archive from February is at the John Oakley show page at 640am raio Toronto and just scroll back for the name Cheri Dinovo to download or listen to her admit that she condones some child abuse or some form of pedophilia.
For a Minister to think the naked males flashing their penis at little girls is healthy and teaches Tolerance, it is really sick and says more about the United Church that has no time for jesus but wants the Charity Status and tax-exempt for property taxes.
This example is what the Islamists will use to push Shariah law as a HUman Right,but don't be surprized when the gay-friendly churches get bombed by the zealots from islam as CAIR goes on TV to talk about the fear of Backlash.
When I was a child, the Catholic kids at school would have long discussions about what to give up for Lent—and would finally settle on something like foregoing Jolly Rancher candies or watching Gilligan's Island.
I seems that the Reverend Steve Lawler is instead giving up his faith, his reason, and his sanity.
Behold the face of a major part of the fight against Islamic supremacism---the useful idiot.
Follow the link to the 'stltoday' St.Louis Post-Dispatch news site. The photo caption is a real hoot: Lawler has taken up the life of a Mulsim
A mulsim? A portmanteau word for a simulated muslim?
Last time I checked the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the same God worshipped by Jews, Christians and Muslims.
Just because Father Lawlor chooses to use the words prayed
In Islamic prayers hardly makes him an apostate, no more than those Christians who attend a Passover Seder are renouncing their faith in Jesus.
If the haters on this site followed Father Lawlor's example, perhaps they would find their hard heartedness and venomous mindset yield to the love Christ commands of us. Muslims, like all of us, are God's children and deserve to be respected and treated as such.
That would be a good and blessed Lent.
@ Sean
I had to laugh, but you are so right! Giving up Christianity for Lent is exactly what he's done. Well stated.
"Timothy" wrote:
Last time I checked the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the same God worshipped by Jews, Christians and Muslims.
...........................
Perhaps you didn't check very hard, Timothy—the vicious "Allah" has very little in common with the God of the Torah and Gospels.
You may not be aware that "the words prayed in Islamic prayers" specifically curse Jews and Christians.
Perhaps you could spend Lent reading the Qu'ran, Hadith, and Sira. It would be time well spent, and you would be much better informed the next time you weighed in here.
And that would be "a good and blessed Lent" indeed.
Why don't these people just convert? It's not like there's a death penalty for apostasy in Christianity.
You know, Jews have been living in the West for 1,000-1,300 years (apparently this immigration to Europe just happened to coincide with the rise and spread of Islam), some even go back to the Roman era, yet it never occured to anyone, certainly not Christian priests, to adopt Jewish rituals "to gain a deeper understanding of the faith". I've heard by now about many people in different places in the West who decided to fast on Ramadan as a sign of solidarity or whatever, yet I've never heard of any non-Jew who fasts on Yom Kippur. How come? What is it about Islam that evokes such reactions?
I've never heard of anything of the sort before 9/11 and the terrorist attacks in Europe. Is it just Islam being in the headlines that arouses people's curiosity? Is it the violence they are attracted to? After all Islam allows its adherents to express sides of human nature that are no longer acceptable in Western society, so maybe it's projection, allowing oneself to express these sides by proxy just by identifying with Islam, or feeling a great attraction to it because it expresses in the open human qualities that are repressed by most ordinary Westerners. Or is it the assertive and robust Islamic identity, compared with the feeble, self criticizing, self hating, apologetic post-modern multicultural Western identity? Or is it the totality of Islam that allows its adherents to devote their lives to it, compared with the much less demanding and not all-encompassing Christian faith, that has such an appeal?
He's hedging his bets...his neighborhood is probably being overrun by Islam....or maybe he's been lusting after burkah babes and doesn't know how to deal with it....
"If the haters on this site followed Father Lawlor's example, perhaps they would find their hard heartedness and venomous mindset yield to the love Christ commands of us."
And perhaps if you spent a year in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan, or even in "moderate" Egypt or Jordan, you would understand why some people who know better criticize Islam so harshly.
I'm tired of hearing how much Muslims are victimized by us supposedly "hate-filled" "bigots", while the real problem is the people of all faiths, including Muslims, and of no faith who are victimized by Islam. Why don't you pay attention to them? Don't their lives and well being deserve as much consideration as those of Muslims? Aren't they just as human? Aren't they too god's children as you put it? So where is your uproar about their fate? Where is your pain and compassion for what they are forced to put up with? Where is your protest for what is done to them? Do you visit Muslim websites to tell them the same things - that we're all god's children and deserve to be respected and treated as such?
We're not haters in the sense that we are blind ignoramuses. We, that is to say so many regular posters here at JW, including myself, have come to despise Islam the same way one might despise Nazism. Both are totalitarian systems, one secular and the other spiritual. After all, where is it written that just because you have a major religion, it must be good?
You are naive to say the least and your aspersions directed towards critics of Islam are rooted in ignorance. Meanwhile, Muslims continue to kill and maim in the name of their religion on virtually a daily basis---some 17,000 documented Islamic terrorist attacks just since 9/11. Do you really believe, really believe, these are aberrations of a peaceful, tolerant religion? Time to wise up, if you can, which I'm afraid your ingenuousness may prohibit you from doing. Why not start by reflecing on what Mohammed himself said and that is the following: "I have been made victorious through terror" (from the Bukhari Hadith).
I second your retort to 'Timothy'.
Timothy ...
It may surprise you to learn that Jesus had some VERY strong words for the religious leaders of His day, so brace yourself:
"Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe,[a]that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. 4 For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. 5 But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. 6 They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, 7 greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ 8 But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ,[b] and you are all brethren. 9 Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. 10 And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. 11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.
13 “But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of heaven against men; for you neither go in yourselves, nor do you allow those who are entering to go in. 14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows’ houses, and for a pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive greater condemnation.[c]
15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.
16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘Whoever swears by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple, he is obliged to perform it.’ 17 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies[d] the gold? 18 And, ‘Whoever swears by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is obliged to perform it.’ 19 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift? 20 Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it. 21 He who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells[e] in it. 22 And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it.
23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done, without leaving the others undone. 24 Blind guides, who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence.[f] 26 Blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may be clean also.
27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. 28 Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.
29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets and adorn the monuments of the righteous, 30 and say, ‘If we had lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.’
31 “Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt. 33 Serpents, brood of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of hell? 34 Therefore, indeed, I send you prophets, wise men, and scribes: some of them you will kill and crucify, and some of them you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Assuredly, I say to you, all these things will come upon this generation." -- Matthew 23:1-36
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The above passage may not apply to this Episcopal priest directly, but it does in general terms; and I chose to site this passage in Matthew as it demonstrates Jesus' ability to be FIRM anad direct with religious leaders and their false teachings.
Jesus is not speaking to these men like a flower child filled with sweetness and love intent on accepting these false religious teachers, warts and all - but with direct firmness, which may also surprise you as love as well, since many times love is TOUGH.
Please read the above passage carefully, and then ask yourself how Jesus might speak to this Episcopal priest based upon His sharp words to the religious leaders of His day ...
And the notion that Jesus would be tender and sweet to Lawler is NOT supported by this passage, nor other passages where Jesus CONFRONTED religious leaders. I mean read the WORDS OF JESUS.
Sorry, but this Episcopal priest is way off base conjoining darkness with light. And if you know Christ, then you certainly know - or at least you should know, that Jesus Christ is the light of the world - and well, muhammad represents darkness. This is not hard to figure out, dear sir.
he gave up intelligence for Lent!
Actually I find this rather interesting. His exploration of Islam did not focus on actually investigating it via
reading the Koran
reading ANYTHING, including Muslim/exMuslim blogs
-interviewing Muslims
going to Open Day at a Mosque
meeting Sheiks and listening to how they talk
watching Islamic videos on the Net etc
All these things he could have done without violating the tent of his own religion, which I gather he has violated by doing the one thing he as a Christian is not supposed to do.
No - his exploration consists of acting out an aspect of worship, feeling what it would it would be like to Be a Muslim by immersing himself in some of the ritual.
I say 'some" because I take it he did not feel it necessary to travel to Pakistan to rape a child, kidnap a Christian/Jewish woman and forcibly convert her to Islam,
travel to Sudan and kill and rape Christian women and amputate limbs of child slaves, etc. that would have enabled him to feel like a Muslim too. So would being a racist Arab supremacist. or enrolling in the muttawa in Saudi Arabia. Perhaps we should be grateful he stuck to kneeeling on a prayer rug!
Not thagt I'm a fan of Christianity, but I wonder how much of his own religion he has actually read? Did he absorb that too, by just going to Church or meeting a vicar...?
Also ...
In response to your comment here:
"Muslims, like all of us, are God's children and deserve to be respected and treated as such."
Jesus would totally disagree with you, since only those that are born-again can become God's children and see His kingdom. Jesus said:
"Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God." -- John 3:3
Now, having said that, a muslim is certainly invited to become born-again, but of course that would require that they renounce their false prophet, muhammad.
And read what Jesus had to say about false prophets:
"15) Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17) Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18) A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19) Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20) Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21) Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." -- Matthew 7:15-21
Now, if you knew anything about this man, muhammad, then you would know that he was a false prophet and a very evil person. Second to that, if his followers are following a false prophet, then they are in error themselves as well, and are NOT children of God as you purport, not according to what Jesus said. Simply put, muslims are NOT born-agian. Period.
Remember, in Matthew 7, Jesus is clearly exhorting people to beware of false prophets and to judge their fruit; and if you know anything about muhammad's life, then you would know that his fruit was very bad, and very evil. Therefore, you cannot have good fruit coming from a bad tree, which is who muhammad was: a bad tree. Subsequently, his followers produce bad fruit as well. Again, this is not hard to figure out.
You obviously need to read the Bible a little closer and then use some common sense.
Jesus = good
muhammad = evil
So why on earth would an Episcopal priest combine good with evil? It's clear what Jesus thinks about this sort of practice, and it is very displeasing to Him and deserves nothing but criticism, not approval by people like you - and I am very surprised that you do not recognize this fact.
Sorry, but you are misreprenting the teachings of Jesus Christ, and are in complete error yourself. Also, read Robert Spencer's book, The Truth About Muhammad. Educate yourself about this man, muhammad - along with the life of Jesus Christ and what He said in its entirety. You obviously know next to nothing about what either of them taught, and the kind of life they each led, otherwise you would be just as disapproving of Lawler as the majority of us are.
Read the words of Jesus in their entirety before you speak on His behalf. The 'love your neighbor as yourself' is not the sum total of what Jesus taught - not by a long shot; nor is it wise to misappropriate that Bible teaching, as you have clearly done.
"Is it the violence they are attracted to?"
Yes. It's the same fascination that serial killers hold for people. People are fascinated by the "Dark Side or anything so alien to them...
Sorry, DoomandGloom. Jews have NEVER scared people (i'm one too), or engaged people's emotions so racily as have Muslims.
Allm kidding aside, however, the incredibale amount of proMuslim conditioning expressed by every media/cultural/educvational/political outlet in England and EU etc has precisely this effect.
This kind of wannabe activity is actually quite logiv=cal becasue the whole country supports everysingle aspct of Islam verbally, financially, socially and by group pressure, including worldwide Church support for Islam to BE what it wants ie take over UK.
Let's face it, you got the Supreme Dingbat Archbishop of Canterbury lobbyiong for Sharia law, plus the support of World Council of Churches and other church movements.
They even get violent on behalf of Muslims and campaign against the origin of their own faith, ie Israel and the Jews.
And it was the Christians who first encouraged pan Arabism in the Islamic world (thanks for that).
Why wouldn't this Church peon want to experience something his OWN church clearly thinks is fantastic, promoting Islam as they do?
Several months ago, on a local radio station here in Australia, I heard a Church Leader (Angliscan) express the opinion that his own Bible was "just a book" after all(!!!!) Nothing special...
No wonder people succumb.
Jesus simply commands us to love one another. He doesn't say, "except for the Muslims because some do evil things, or the Jews, because they reject me as the Messiah.". His commandment to us as Christians is unequivocal. There's no wiggle room...no tit for tat.
That's what makes being a Christian such a challenge. He specifically tells us that we aren't to retaliate. We are to turn the other cheek.
The haters on this site justify their bigotry by painting all of Islam with a very broad brush. That's not what Jesus would do, nor is it what anyone who considers himself/herself a Christian can do.
If Father Lawlor's Lenten practice draws his parishioners into a routine of praying five times daily, abstaining from alcohol, meat on Friday, and eating a healthy diet, and developing a a Christian understanding of the maligned beliefs of a people who comprise a significant portion of the world's population, then he has more than met his calling as a priest this Lent.
Sorry i posted before finishing my answer.
No one wanted to imitate Jews becaseu especially in Europe, they hvae been the despied "killers of Christ" and generally held in very low esteem, being reserved by Christians and European types generally as handy scapegoats, existing for the scorn of Christians and (of course) Muslims.
People imitate those who they perceive to be higher than they on the status ladder.
What i find interesting is that some young antiSemites here in Melbourne went on the flotilla (yeah, that one) and when the Israelis came on the boat and there was fighting or something, the guy thought" wow, this is what the Palestinians go through every day". He was proud to experience what he thought was Palestinian oppression.
At bottom, they know that Jews will not hurt them. At bottom they know Muslims will.
HIs sister helped to organise that IHH flotilla from Kuwait, by the way.
Noone I've ever heard of wanted to experience living in a concentration camp...
Timothy,
whatever your religios beliefs, the pragmatic fact is that Islam is a threat to all non-Muslims and Muslims who do not wish to live under Sharia.
You're free to love Muslims. Some will be nice to you, others will plot your death. hope you choose the right ones.
Oh - feel free to not pay attention to the increasing numbers of kidnapped, tortured, murdered Christians in the world - courtesy of violent Muslims.
Don't think about standing up for them will you?
Here's my thoughts.
First of all, this man's Bishop is doing his job.
From the article:
"He can't be both a Christian and a Muslim," said Bishop George Wayne Smith of the Episcopal Diocese of Missouri. "If he chooses to practice as Muslim, then he would, by default, give up his Christian identity and priesthood in the church."
Ladies and gentlemen - I address in particular those who are professing Christians, and among them, those who worship within the Anglican Communion, but non-Christians are perfectly welcome to take my advice as well - I think it would be an excellent idea to write short, polite letters or emails to Bishop George Wayne Smith commending him for exercising his commonsense as well as his spiritual discernment.
And encourage him to get and read the two excellent books by Australian Anglican priest, scholar and human rights activist, Rev Dr Mark Durie: "Revelation? Do We Worship the Same God? Jesus, God, Holy Spirit in Christianity and Islam", and "The Third Choice: Islam, Dhimmitude and Freedom". These books would provide him with all the basic information he needs to educate and warn all clergy and laity within his diocese.
We can also refer the good Bishop to the excellent pamphlets put out by UK Anglican Canon Dr Patrick Sookhdeo's 'Barnabas Fund' - 'What is Islam?' 'What is Shari'a?', and 'Islam and Slavery' - and Canon Sookhdeo's books - in particular 'Faith, Power and Territory' and 'Freedom to Believe: Challenging Islam's Apostasy Law'.
Second - it's worth a try - email the foolish priest himself. Try to be polite.
Tell him if he wants to understand Islam he should find out what Muslims *really* believe.
Tell him to read the Quran, the Sira (in either the A Guillaume or the William Muir translations) and to sample the Bukhari and Muslim Hadith - offer him the links where they can be read online. Mention Aisha and the reason why prepubescent child brides are Sunnah. Mention Safiyya the 17 year old Jewish girl that Mohammed raped the night of the very day he'd tortured her fiance to death. And then tell this confused priest that Mohammed defines 'morality' for Muslims - EVERYTHING he did (including bedding a nine-year-old and raping Jewish girl captives) was good and worthy of emulation and is *still* seen as worthy of emulation.
Include the link for two articles: Bat Yeor's review of Dr Durie's book 'Revelation?' entitled 'Which One God?"
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/219405/which-one-god/bat-yeor
and an article by Dr Durie on 'Isa, the Muslim Jesus'.
http://www.answering-islam.org/authors/durie/islamic_jesus.html
"That's not what Jesus would do, nor is it what anyone who considers himself/herself a Christian can do."
WWJD? Well, the last time I checked Jesus didn't execute the adulterous woman but Mo did....Ahem, Saheh Muslim 4206;
"There came to him (the Holy Prophet) a woman from Ghamid and said: Allah's Messenger, I have committed adultery, so purify me. He (the Holy Prophet) turned her away. On the following day she said: Allah's Messenger, Why do you turn me away? Perhaps, you turn me away as you turned away Ma'iz. By Allah, I have become pregnant. He said: Well, if you insist upon it, then go away until you give birth to (the child). When she was delivered she came with the child (wrapped) in a rag and said: Here is the child whom I have given birth to. He said: Go away and suckle him until you wean him. When she had weaned him, she came to him (the Holy Prophet) with the child who was holding a piece of bread in his hand. She said: Allah's Apostle, here is he as I have weaned him and he eats food. He (the Holy Prophet) entrusted the child to one of the Muslims and then pronounced punishment. And she was put in a ditch up to her chest and he commanded people and they stoned her. Khalid b Walid came forward with a stone which he flung at her head and there spurted blood on the face of Khalid and so he abused her. Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) heard his (Khalid's) curse that he had huried upon her. Thereupon he (the Holy Prophet) said: Khalid, be gentle. By Him in Whose Hand is my life, she has made such a repentance that even if a wrongful tax-collector were to repent, he would have been forgiven. Then giving command regarding her, he prayed over her and she was buried."
Keep on living with your illusions, I prefer to live with the truth.
I am not Christian, but Christians and Atheists can love the Muslims, certainly. They can love the sinner, and still hate the sin.
About hate-speech on this site; I can see then that you support, directly or indirectly censorship. CENSORSHIP-LOVER-SUPPORTER! As Pamela Geller says; react to something you consider "BAD SPEECH" with more "GOOD SPEECH", NOT with sympathy for CENSORSHIP!!!
You should, as almost ALL do here; oppose violence by both sides. But hate-speech; when you say that, you disregard, and oppose, stifle the so valuable:
Factual criticism, exposure, protest against and holding people accountable for: - Stupid acts. - Hypocritical attitudes. - Sinful activities and support of them. - acts detrimental to your own co-religionists in Muslim countries (and how Christian is it of you to abandone them to their fate by giving their abusers and their co-religionists the breaks you give them?) - threats to the freedom of your own grand-children, so to speak. What IS it you really wish for them? Not Islamic supremacy, is it?
I DO like and love many Muslims and I do wish them well, yet I DO hold them accountable and I do try to protect their victims and our grandchildren. That IS a possible combination.
I knew a (rather troubled) guy who gave up masturbation for Lent. That was a choice I could respect.
I cannot respect what this priest is doing. I doubt he would ever bother trying to perform the rituals of Judaism, or any other religion, yet as a Christian leader, he and his congregation would really benefit from learning about Judaism.
You stated: "Jesus simply commands us to love one another."
That is profoundly untrue. Jesus did not "simply" command us to love one another, where did you come up with that one? Jesus had many more things to say to His church, and I cited only a couple of passages from the Bible - WORDS of Jesus, btw, that prove otherwise. Jesus also had words of rebuke, not only to the religious leaders of His day, but to Christians as well. Rebuke is a form of love, tough love, if you will.
Jesus also warned against false prophets and/or false teachers - in fact, He gave a very stern admonition to Christians to stay AWAY from these kinds of people.
You also stated: "He specifically tells us that we aren't to retaliate. We are to turn the other cheek."
For now I will address your assertion that posters here are advocating "retaliation", which is also profoundly untrue. No one here is advocating that, so you are beginning to sound like a mohammedan troll, to me anyway. Many muslims level this claim at Christians on this forum, all the while pretending to be a Christian themselves. Whether you are a muslim, or not, is besides the point - the point IS, no one here is advocating "retaliation". That is a bold-faced lie, sir.
As to the second part of your comment about turning the other cheek, I have a lot to add on that subject which you clearly do not understand as well - but that will have to wait until later on today.
Until then, I highly recommend that you start reading more about what Jesus ACTUALLY had to say, since you do not know His messages in full. Take care.
Lawler is clearly going against the Bible by combining islamic rituals with Christian practices ...
2 Corinthians 6:14 teaches:
"Do not be bound together with unbelievers; for what partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness?"
Christians know that Jesus Crist is the Light of the world. Jesus said in John 9:5:
"While I am in the world, I am the Light of the world."
And Christians also know that muhammad was one of the many false prophets that Jesus warned about, which means that muhammad & islam represent the darkness mentioned in 2 Corinthians ...
So in 2 Corinthians 6:14 Christians have an admonition NOT to do what Lawler is doing! And not only is Lawler becoming bound with a non-Christian (the muslim leader), but he is engaging in "fellowship with darkness" through these strange and demonic islamic practices.
George Smith is right in confronting Lawler's wrongheaded islamic & occultic practices. Good for you, Mr. Smith!
Timothy, I don't know who you 'checked with' but Christians, Jews, and muslims do not worship the same God. Muslims worship a unique deity created specifically for the pseudo religion of islam. The unknowable god of islam is not the God of the Bible.
The Biblical prophets were expropriated by the creators of islam; they arrogated the prophets of Judaism and Christianity and rewrote history by distorting and desecrating Biblical scripture. Islam is not a genuine Abrahamic religion because islam and muslims did not exist in Abraham's time and he was not a muslim. The only 'prophet' islam can rightfully claim as its own is muhammad, allah's alter ego.
You and me both, neighbor.
This is why a lot of us south of line forty-nine (and maybe north of the border, too) have given up so-called "mainline Protestant" denominations not only for lent, but for life, and attend different denominations.
I'm not saying more. Sumdum, Gravenimage, you, Courreges (spelling?) and a lot of others expressed my feelings exactly.
Actually, I do have something more to say.
Brother Lawler:
How can you do such a thing when your brethren are treated, for the sake of bearing Christ's name, as sheep for the slaughter every day in places like Pakistan, Egypt, Iran, Iraq, Turkey, and Afghanistan, and even in such supposedly "moderate" Islamic lands as Bangladesh and Indonesia? The reference to Romans 8 and the Psalm Paul was quoting is intentional.
Kepha
Just an update to my comment about Cheri Dinovo the NDP MPP that wants the Human Rights code to allow men to get access to little grils by using the womens washrooms if the declare there is a female inside them.
The Attorney General of Ontario had just rejected the Gender-Identity for men feeling there is a women inside them for being included in the Human Rights code as a protected Minority for Jobs and Housing.
Oddly enough, Cheri doesn't seem to want to employ those people or have them live near HER home.
Now if only the Attorney general would end the quasi-pedophiles in the gay parade that get to expose their penis at little girls in public( this as the gay-Police working that day do NOT stop the child-abuse or Crimes against Children)or little boys while Cheri Dinovo marches in the same parade as a United Church Minister that is pro-Abortiobn and believes that jesus endorses same-geneder marriage and some pedophilia when the victims are the same geneder as the perv.
Wow, James the Fin, thank you for posting that Hadith quote. How sadistic the "Prophet" is! The story seems obviously lifted from the New Testament account of Jesus and the adulterous woman, but with a horrifying twist.
I've always suspected that those who say that the Christian and Muslim conceptions of God are not compatible are right. You and "Al Kaafir" above have inspired me to read the Koran and settle it for myself once and for all.