Egyptian convert from Islam to Christianity flees Syria, seeks asylum in France

Sorry CGW, I see you beat me to the punch.

CORRECTION- I hope dina finds a nice, sweet arab christian to marry. Stop projecting your Freudist imperial complexes on women from third world countries, i notice you do this quite alot, hoping a muslim women gets bagged by a western guy.

Pai Hsien-yung aka Bai Xianyong, who is Hui, was sent by his father, the Chairman of the Chinese Muslim Association, General Bai Chongxi, to Catholic schools during World War 2, in Hong Kong.

http://www.independent.com/news/2006/sep/28/peony-dreams/

and for the record, as i said before, Pai is currently no longer a muslim, and he is a homosexual. He was not threatened by the Chinese muslim association, and received no death threats from any hui.

There is a community of Han families (who like to call themselves hui), the Guo and Ding families in China and Taiwan, who are descended from muslims, but they are not longer muslim, they are mostly buddhist, daoist, and only a few members are christian, they have many family branches. (they apostasized hundreds of years ago, the christians in their families are converts from buddhism/daoism not islam, they only know they are descended from hui through family records, artifacts like a quran or family practicies)

They proudly call themselves Hui, its not us who force them to.

English language reports on these families-

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2008/08/31/2003421916
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/197004/islam.in.taiwan.htm

They have received no death threats or intimidation for not being muslim.

Alot of muslims, who stay muslim and don't convert, go to Catholic schools to get education, not only in China but in other places as well. in China or Taiwan, its acceptable for Hui to send their children to catholic or christian schools or universities, as long as they don't convert, we are interested in education, not terrorism.

I myself was educated partly at a Catholic School.

correction to myself-

i notice you do this quite alot, hoping a non western woman gets bagged by a western guy

There you go again, with your brains in the gutter, only able to ascribe to people the ugliest and lowest of motives. You're accusing me of imperialism? PIFFLE!

I am a woman and a mother of daughters.

I wish for girls like Dina El Gohary, and other young female apostates from Islam, exactly the same thing that I wish for my own daughters: that they may live long and happy lives, pursue an education, find work that they enjoy, and - if they decide they wish to marry - a husband, a life partner, who will be loving and trustworthy and **not a Muslim** and with whom they may have children, should they so choose. My Christian husband is loving, gentle, considerate and faithful; so I would wish for Dina, and for my daughters, to find a man like that, should they wish to marry.

**That** is all that my remarks were intended to imply - that Dina might, if one day she decides to marry, find a man - black, white, brown, red or golden - who shared her Christian faith and would treat her well and be faithful to her alone. His skin colour and language are irrelevant to me. Maybe she *will* find a handsome Coptic emigre - like Mr Spencer's friend, Dr Raymond Ibrahim. Or maybe she will find a beautiful Persian ex-Muslim who is now a fervent Christian - there are plenty of those about, in America and Australia. who knows? Plenty of possibilities.

I would be happiest if my daughters - should they marry - married Christians (of whatever colour or ethnic background); but if their soul mate turned out to be Jewish, or Hindu, or agnostic, or atheist, well, so be it, so long as the man was of good character.

**Anything** but a Muslim - for there was a British study of family violence in the early 1990s that discovered that women married to Muslims, in Britain, were eight times more likely to be murdered by their spouses, than any other married women in Britain; and all the evidence coming out of other parts of dar al Islam suggests that, generally speaking, Muslims make **dreadful** husbands, violent and abusive.

We don't have family violence studies that resemble britain's in Taiwan or Thailand, since most family violence is between non muslims, theres no point in taking any studies based on religion.

And British studies can't be applied to muslims in east asia. You are taking a bunch of savages in Britain (who are members of terror groups like hizb ut tahrir), and claim they represent all muslims.

Tibetan and Mongol women from northwest china are perfectly content with marry muslim salar and hui, and non muslim minority women in Yunnan province of China and in Burma also marry muslims, there hasn't been any reports of honor killing, raping, beating, or garbage of that sort coming from any muslim in China, taiwan, thailand, and burma.

Syrian christians also take extreme offence at insults to their country's honor and dignity. they don't like foreigners criticizing their regime, especially those high ranking Christian generals in syria's military.

This egyptian person must have been a protestant if he were really afraid of Syrians in general, since they are viewed as zionist agents.

Hopefully they will find the shelter in their Christian fellowship. If not, they might want to try Canada.

Once again, "Horse" is never able to explain why so many of his coreligionists from the traditional heart of the Muslim world are so vicious in the name of their savage creed, and why only the tiny minority of Muslims scattered throughout far east Asia supposedly seem to have gotten Islam right.

He also seems fine with violently targeting Protestants and Jews, while implying—quite implausibly—that it would be other Christians who would murder them.

Maher El-Gohary and his young daughter Dina are at risk—in Egypt, in Syria, and anywhere else in the Muslim world—because they are apostates from Islam, and the penalty for Muslims "changing their religion" is death.

Syrian Orthodox and Catholics don't like protestants, ask them yourself how they feel about protestant arabs. I'm not the one who is mind controlling them and making them think like this.

Quit your obscene gloating over the follies of some Syrian Orthodox dhimmis who dislike and criticise Evangelicals - I'll *bet* they mainly do it out of fear of the Muslims, because the evangelicals 'rock the boat' by defying the sharia rule that dhimmi Christians are **NOT PERMITTED** to evangelise Muslims...and the Syrian Christians know what the Muslim Mob does to those who are perceived as 'uppity dhimmis'.

In any case, you DO NOT KNOW which Christian tradition Mr El-Gohary has chosen to practise.

Given that in the article it is mentioned that he has been helped and advised by Coptic Christian emigres in Britain and elsewhere, it seems to me to be perfectly plausible that he - born and raised in Egypt - may have chosen to follow the form of Christianity professed and practised by the Copts.

Nope. Russian and greek orthodox don't like protestants either, I've met them before, they dislike it because A)they are mostly american B)they are pro zionist C)they are not a traditional sect unlike orthodoxy or catholocism (some orthodox do not even like catholics either)

These are the same reasons that Syrian Orthodox oppose them.

the Coptic church doesn't exist in Syria so it wouldn't have the proper churches or facilities for worshippers

"Horse" wrote:

Syrian Orthodox and Catholics don't like protestants, ask them yourself how they feel about protestant arabs.
.............................

We were not discussing differing points of view—real or imagined—between Christian sects. The issue was Christians being *threatened with death*.

It is Muslims who are threatening and killing Christians and apostates, not Orthodox Christians or Catholics.

By the way, the whole thing about alleged Christian hatred of Protestants is what carnys refer to as a "swerve"-a distraction—in any case. The El-Goharys are not Protestants, but Copts.

"Dina and Maher El-Gohary, Persecuted Coptic Christians Ask Obama for Help"

http://www.catholic.org/international/international_story.php?id=35294

http://www.unitedcopts.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=6096&Itemid=73

As I said- the Coptic church doesn't exist in Syria so it wouldn't have the proper churches or facilities for worshippers.

Only Orthodox and Catholic church officials and patriarchs are in Syria, and only orthodox and catholic churches exists there.

There are the greek catholic churches, the assyrian orthodox, and the greek orthodox church.

there is no coptic church in syria, no officials, bishops, facilities, anything
______________________________________________________________

But Syrian orthodox churches are treated perfectly well as are catholics.

"Syria: President Bashir al-Assad has a staunch friend in the Church"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/8466759/Syria-President-Bashir-al-Assad-has-a-staunch-friend-in-the-Church.html

"Syria is your country where ever you are,This is your right ,and when I say so,I do not give you what is not already yours."

-President Hafiz al-Assad upon receiveing the Syrian Orthodox Holy Synod ,17 march 1997

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqPfB4iRpRs

_____________________________________________________________

according to one of your OWN WESTERN EVANGELICAL WEBSITES, converts to protestant christianity in Syria are not harassed by muslims, but by Syrian CHRISTIANS. (most likely orthodox or catholic)
___________________________________________________
Quoted directly from western evangelical website on persecution

(you have to click on syria in the map to get to its profile when you reach the website)

http://www.persecution.com/public/restrictednations.aspx?clickfrom=bWFpbl9tZW51

"Syria is a secular state, but Islam is recognized as the religion of the majority. The constitution provides some religious
freedom. Thousands of Lebanese Christians sought refuge in Syria when war raged between Israel and Hezbollah terrorists in the summer of 2006, and many have stayed. Syria is also home to the largest number of Iraqi refugees — more than 1 million. Some refugees, including converts to Christianity, have experienced persecution in Syria.

Category: Restricted Nation
Religion: Muslim 90.32%, Christian 5.12%
Ideology: Islam
Head of State: President Bashar al-Asad

Traditional Christian minority groups experience relative freedom within the larger Islamic society. However, Christian evangelism is not welcome, and missionaries are not allowed in the country. The government closely monitors all activities deemed a threat to communal harmony, so most churches in Syria are hesitant to evangelize Muslims. The government is curious about those who convert from Islam to Christianity, but so far it has not tried to hinder conversions or harass converts. The biggest persecutors of converts from Islam are members of the traditional churches, who feel threatened by evangelism."
_________________________________________
The first bit about harrasment is talking about iraqi refugess only, and Not Syrians in General.

and then is says- "The government is curious about those who convert from Islam to Christianity, but so far it has not tried to hinder conversions or harass converts. The biggest persecutors of converts from Islam are members of the traditional churches, who feel threatened by evangelism"

It was on the demand of the Orthodox and Catholic churches in Syria that the government crack down on protestant evangelical "house churches", which led to their closure last year.

The Syrian orthodox and catholic churches are persecuting converts from islam to christianity, not muslims.

And I don't see what all the fuss Maher and Dina are all about with their identity cards.

In China, Han chinese descended from muslim arabs, persians, and central asians, like the Ding and Guo families in fujian and taiwan, because they were not muslim anymore, were forced to put "Han chinese" on their identity cards, but they DEMANDED that they be allowed to put "Hui" instead, even though they were either buddhist, daoist, or some branches of their families are former buddhists/daoists who converted to christianity.

Now they put Hui on their identity cards and papers.

In mainland China they receive extra benefits for minorities since they put hui in their papers, but they've been demanding it for a long time before that, when they were no extra benefits for Hui.

In taiwan there is no problem, they were counted as muslim in past by the Chinese Muslim Association, even though they are not muslim by religion.

"Horse" wrote:

And I don't see what all the fuss Maher and Dina are all about with their identity cards.
..........................

Without an identity card in Egypt one is essentially a "non-person". One cannot hold any but the most menial, "under-the-table" employment, and one cannot legally travel.

Identity cards in Egypt indicate the religion of the card-holder, and the El-Goharys could not get cards listing their faith as Christian because they are apostates from Islam. In fact, Dina has *always* been Christian, but is still regarded as an apostate because her father has never been able to change *his* id card.

Egypt, as a Muslim country, has deliberately failed to recognize converts *to* Christianity—converts to Islam have no such problems.

The El-Goharys were not able to leave the country until the current chaos, but were trapped in a land that denied them religious freedom, and where they were threatened with murder from Egyptian Muslims.

You might not understand "all the fuss" about peaceful people being forced to live as hunted animals, but anyone with a shred of decency does.

Sir gravy-

Identity cards are also part of Taiwan and China. Nowhere did I imply, except in your imagined ramblings and hallucinations, that identity cards are unneceasry in Egypt.

I noted that non muslim chinese who are descended from arabs and other muslims like to put muslim on their cards, regardless of their religion.