Finland: Lutheran priest defrocked for condemning Chechen jihadist

Marisol:
Bravo to your insight.

Hello Tom:
I can't figure out all the background to this story. I went to the Tundra Tabloids website and came away with the impression that anything pro-russian is ipso facto bad; I disagree with that drift. They are the only ones talking sense on the Libyan issue.
I was concentrating more on the employment and legal woes of the Pastor for what he primarily said about terrorists as it relates to free speech in Finland and how the political elite and journalists are out to get him.
I'll keep following the story.
This thing about Russia bending on Sharia in Chechnya is recognition of the essentially Islamic nature of that society and an attempt to buy some peace. They probably have a game plan and I hope that includes cutting Chechnya loose, ridding Russia of Muslims, and repatriation of Russians living in predominantly muslim republics.
This Backman sounds wacko.

You are right. The sheer improbability of the story as presented here alone is enough to cast suspicion on the sources, and the information contained in the Tundra Tabloids link settles the matter completely. Nothing to see here, folks.

Only in you big fantasy wet dreams will russia be rid of muslims- Russia supports the Islamist regime in Sudan, in exchange, many Sudanese students go to Russia on study abroad programs and end up staying.

the RIA novsti, a RUSSIAN news agency, wrote an article in which it noted Russia FULLY supported the sudan government-

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20110109/162045034.html

"Russia’s northern bias

Moscow has good relations with Khartoum and President al-Bashir, who in 2009 pledged friendship and many joint projects in the oil and energy sector. But his pledges were no more than declarations of intent on most issues, with the notable exception of student exchanges, which bring Sudanese students to Russian universities. Most of these students strive to remain in Russia after graduation.
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Darfuri Muslim rebels managed to shoot down and kill a Russian pilot during their raid on the Sudanese capital of Khartoum, aiming to overthrow the Islamist regime. The russian was trying to shoot the rebels, but they fired back, he tried to eject from the cockpit, but his parachute malfunctioned and he died.

http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/200862112816.asp
http://www.sudantribune.com/Radio-station-says-Russian-pilot,27319

Russian pilots were also kidnapped by tribesmen in darfur and got the crap beaten out of them

http://www.sudantribune.com/Two-Russian-pilots-abducted-in,36116

http://www.afrikaspeaks.com/news.php/news/general/spain-denies-hostages-release/ticker/ht...%3C/?p=Country&id=44&curpage=7&title=Rebels%2C+Russian+pilot+were+beaten+in+Darfur%3A+UN

I congragulate the muslims of Darfur for rising against the satanic Khartoum regime, which imposes sharia law upon the country.

Darfur rebel muslim leader says he wants sudan to be a "secular state", free of religious oppression and racism

http://english.ahram.org.eg/NewsContent/2/8/3648/World/Region/Darfur-rebel-for-a-united-secular-north.aspx
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The architect of Beslan and other terrorist attacks, was the Chechen Shamil Basayev, who was linked to the Russian FSB, when he, effectively allied with Russia, fought for Abkhazia against Georgia. He slipped through Russian FSB checkpoints strangely without being detained several times. Many of the "chechen mujahideen", fought for Russia in abkhazia during the war against Georgia in the early 90's.

I said,
"This Backman sounds wacko."
I take that back. I just reviewed the video that I mentioned today and he sounds good to me. He is strong in his anti-terrorist stance, knows what he knows, and speaks forthrightly. Tundra Tabloids mislead me; they should try and connect the dots.
If Backman said he would like to see a mosque in every Finnish town he is deluded in not knowing that the apple that Islam is rotten to the core.

"They probably have a game plan and I hope that includes cutting Chechnya loose, ridding Russia of Muslims, and repatriation of Russians living in predominantly muslim republics."

Sorry to disapoint you but I doubt the clique that runs Russia now has any "plan" besides holding stability in Russia long enough to grow rich by selling oil.

I mean the writing is on the wall the number of Europeans in Russia decreases very quickly, the number of Muslims increases. The governments solution to this is let the Russian men drink themselvs to death while importing MASSES of workers from muslim countrys. They hope to have peace as long as possible so they direct the anger of the population against the "weset" (the only onec who dont bite back much) while praising Islam and China (who bite back strongly).
The thing with Kadyrov is, this mounteneers would have needed MUCH more violence (maybe even near compleete extermination) to be submitted by force, Moscow decided to set a pupped despot instead who had a large clan behind him (and giving all long time Russia loyalists among the Chechens to him to do as he saw fit (mostly he killed them, some flew)). The problem is the Chechens wouldnt acknologe a ruler who seemd weak to them so its logical that he had to act "strong" to keep the Chechens satesfied so that they dont go in masses against Russia again, thats why Moscow alows Kadyrov to act as if he and not the Russian government has won the war and Kadyrov has all the freedom to create a sharia state in Chechnya and build up his reputation as the greatest muslim leader in Russia. In the long term this strategy is devestating for Russia but so is about all of Putins policy, so I dont think that Russias survival is part of his "long term strategy".....

"Many of the "chechen mujahideen", fought for Russia in abkhazia during the war against Georgia in the early 90's."

Well while I think its foolish of me to respond to "Horse"....
I will make it short: Yes Caukasian tribal formations were used by Elzin against Georgia, the cut of a LOT of heads and taped it and took a lot of Georgians as slaves....but soon they turned against Russia and began to cut of Russian heads and driving cars through Russia and the Ukraine to just drag people into them and selling them as slaves on actual slave markets.....

Thet Basaev was an allie of Russia after this is as foolish to say as that Osama bin Laden was Americas allie after the Afgan war and seems to come from the same conspirecy ridden eastern culture....

Oh and "Horse" one last thing: You seem to be very proud about being an Arab, please explain to me what makes you proud about being an Arab? What is there to be proud about?

RussiaToday featured an article praising Sudanese islamist leader Hassan Al Turabi, who also defended bin laden during the interview

http://rt.com/news/turabi-sudan/

"Nothing to see here, folks"

While I agree that things are far more complex here at leat the lunacy of the Finish authoritys can be seen by reading this sentence: "Doku Umarov is the president of a separatist government and a respectable person."
So the terrorist and self proclaimed "Emir" of the North Caucasian Emirate is a "respectable person"
At least this is something that is "to see here", dont you think?

When did I say I was Arab? When did I even mention the word Arab?

What you should be concerned about is the thousands of Russian prostitutes in arab states like Dubai in the United Arab Emirates, and all the Russian women in the harems of the Arab Emirs of the gulf. Don't lecture me, who is not an arab, of being not proud, since your women are apparently suckers for arab men.

I never saw a single Russian man, ever, with an Arab woman.

By the way, don't you Russians typically blame this on a "jewish conspiracy"? claiming the jews are selling Russian women to arab sheikhs and that your Mafia is jewish? I dare you to spill out whats in your head right now, I'd bet that its exactly what you think- like a typical Russian, its the "jews" who are kidnapping our white women and selling them to the arabs.

After all, you were the ones who attacked and murdered the jews, raped them and drove the first wave of Russian jews to palestine, spill out what you're thinking now.

I know that Jews are still spat upon, attacked and knifed by Russians even today.

Even in an arab country, a jew is much safer than in Russia.

So the terrorist and self proclaimed "Emir" of the North Caucasian Emirate is a "respectable person"
At least this is something that is "to see here", dont you think?

It's horrible, to be sure, but we are used to this sort of thing. The PLO terrorists have been considered "respectable" by the whole world for decades, for instance.

WOW what a wawe of lies and exagerations.....

Even in an arab country, a jew is much safer than in Russia.

I mean there are still a lot of Jews in Russia last time I loocked....
And Jews take many important positions in Russias economy, politics and entertainment industry, whatever one may say about the Russian government it battles aniti-semetism....

And yes there is much conspirecy talking among Russians but it still not even comes close to what is widly believed in the Arab world.....

"What you should be concerned about is the thousands of Russian prostitutes in arab states like Dubai in the United Arab Emirates, and all the Russian women in the harems of the Arab Emirs of the gulf. Don't lecture me, who is not an arab, of being not proud, since your women are apparently suckers for arab men.

I never saw a single Russian man, ever, with an Arab woman."

Well.... you are clearly a Muslim tribal, your whole view about woman and men shows it..... And yes Muslims are taking, raping and enslaving Russian woman constantly, often with the help of other Russians, as I said Russia is deing.....

Oh and what is there to be proud about if a barbaric tribal is thought by Europeans how to drill oil and so he gets money to fill his harem with bautifull women, Russia produced many sientists and men of culture who contributed to Europes great culture, Arabs just destroyed and parasited on other cultures, unable to advance because of Islam, just being prowd about how much stuff and woman they can steal from others....

"After all, you were the ones who attacked and murdered the jews, raped them and drove the first wave of Russian jews to palestine, spill out what you're thinking now."

I think you are a barbarian thats all and if it comes to "attacked and murdered the jews, raped them" there was mass murder of Jews by mostly Ukrainian peasents and Cossaks (Jews were forbidden to settle in "Russian" land) during the Civil war (1918-1920) But if you are refering to the pogroms before, I have to disapoint you, even Jewish organisations state the death toll of them at some hundred, which is not even comming near to the mass slaughters in the Muslim world.......+ the Imperial government persecuted members of pogroms (even if often reluctantly) and sentenced many to hard force labor.

Realy you seem to bee so happy to finaly see an European country in progressed phase of islamisation dont you?
Sadly the same thing that is hapening to Russia now may hapen to all of Europe soon....

And I know far to many Jews personaly to think like you think (and because of what you transfere your thoughts on me), strangly most Jews I saw were much stronger Russian nationalists then I ever was..... Most Russian Jews who are still in Russia clearly identifie with the country (what cant be said about most Muslims)....

"When did I say I was Arab? When did I even mention the word Arab?"

Not here but on other threaeds you praised arabs strongly, but whoever you are I just ask you a simple question that will be not difficult to answer: Are you proud about the people you belong too?

Well I think you are right about the other things.

I have seen little of "Russia taday" but what I saw is but a watered down version of the propaganda that is thrown on people in Russia from the TV day by day.....

Trying to play the world power while the mere EXISTANCE of the country is thretened.....

I think Putin and co think that if the Russians believe they are a "super power" they will not fight the muslim saveges who mor and more behave as if the country belongs to them (after all they are our friends in the war against the EVIL WEST). The official propaganda even begins to shuger coat the time of the Tatar yoke and more and more developes the Sovjet era idea of Russia being an Asian country that must stay with the "poor colonized people" against the West..... But what this theory dosnt take into acount is that for the islamic world Russia is just as European as Germany.....

We've all heard of Russian Jews like Vladimir Zhirinovsky-

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/1446759.stm
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Why don't you explain the little "pogroms" you Russians have been doing in Moscow against Armenians, Georgians, Azeris, Central asians and afghanis, on Hitler's birthday?

Armenians live in arab countries like lebanon and syria, without being attacked by hordes of Russian skinheads.
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http://www.panarmenian.net/eng/politics/details/42440/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1x5godwe8w

http://www.youtube.com/verify_age?next_url=http%3A//www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DtZSh1BLnGrk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?gl=FR&hl=fr&v=ANunVKDwd5c

http://www.armeniandiaspora.com/showthread.php?2497-Skinheads-attack-Armenian-boy-in-central-Russian-town

http://www.armeniandiaspora.com/showthread.php?151757-Russian-Skinheads-Accused-Of-Murdering-19-People-Sure-Of-Their-Impun

http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=907
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Jews live in Syria and Yemen without their synagogues being vandalized or being attacked, and even said they wanted to stay forever in Syria and Yemen, unlike Russian jews who mass emigrate to America.
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Jews in Yemen are being protected by the government, and refuse to leave the country-

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/143259
http://www.jta.org/news/article/2011/03/30/3086636/jews-of-yemen-staying-put
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Syrian Jews praised their government for restoring their synagogue and for its protection of jews

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-02-06/damascus-jews-restore-synagogues-as-syria-seeks-secular-image.html
http://www.vosizneias.com/75304/2011/02/07/damascus-jews-restore-synagogues-as-syria-burnishes-image/
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/1,7340,L-4025681,00.html

http://www.joshualandis.com/blog/?p=656

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http://www.haaretz.com/news/syrian-jews-celebrate-passover-at-only-synagogue-in-damascus-1.244275

"I'm happy in Syria where I perform my Jewish rituals like Muslims and Christians do," Qameo said, speaking in Arabic. "Marking Passover here in this synagogue is a proof that Jews in Syria are living peacefully and in security."

Another worshipper at Sunday's prayers, Joseph Hamdani, said he lives peacefully in Syria and maintains good relations with his Muslim and Christian neighbors.

"I don't feel like I'm being treated differently," said Hamdani, 41, who also speaks Arabic.
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You can't pull out neo nazi Jews like Zhirinovsky who hate Jews and claim they represent all Russian jews.

and a jew killer was sentenced to death in Yemen for killing a jew-

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4057403,00.html

in Russia your skinheads can kill ten, twenty, thirty or fifty jews, armenians, and others and not get jailed

and your people are heavily mixed with Tatar/mongol muslim blood

http://www.panorama.ru/works/patr/ir/13.html

denying the truth isn't going to help

Not only all that, Russia also has a Jewish Autonomous Republic on the Amur river border w/ China. However, Russian Jews don't throng to that place, and prefer Moscow and other major places. Contrast this w/ the Arab League & Israel.

Back on topic to Molari, wonder whether he could try working in Estonia, or in the Russian Karelia? I know that Estonia absolutely follows Finnish religious practices, don't know about Russian Lapland. But these would be better than bending b4 Finland's dhimmi church. Incidentally, during the Cold War, Finland was everything short of a satellite to the Soviets, but now, they brazenly support a Chechen terrorist who Moscow wants? What's wrong w/ them?

Yeah yeah yeah....

And Jews live soooooo happy in the Muslim world......
Sorry but unless you can show me Jews like Abramovich or yevlinskiy in high positions in Yemen I will still insist on my position and Zhirinovskiy has only a Jewish father which makes him not a Jew according to Jewish law....Also he is a clown who contradicts himself in evry second sentence he makes, so sometimes he says extremly anti-semitic things and sometimes he praises Jews-Israel, so using him just shows that you have no arguments....

"in Russia your skinheads can kill ten, twenty, thirty or fifty jews, armenians, and others and not get jailed"

Yeah yeah, facts please.....
Also the most common perpetraitors of violence in Russia are not slavic skinheads butMuslim saveges, but you seem not to have a problem with them.....

"and your people are heavily mixed with Tatar/mongol muslim blood"

WOW now there is "muslim blood"......does it make you more likly to blow yourself up if you get it in a transfusion???

First "blood" dosnt interest me, culture does and sadly here the Tatar yoke was devestating for Russia....
You can as well mock the Greeks, Bulgarians and Serbs for having "muslim blood" just because they were conquered and their woman raped by Muslim saveges....

Second your text shows little proof for your argument....
third, genetic tests have shown that while there is a large Finish ellement in the Russians (most of what is central Russia now was inhabited by finish tribes in the 10th century), but that the Turkish/Mongol element is rather small (what dosnt surprise if one brings in mind how small in number the nomadic tribes in the "wild field" were.....
It was larger in the aristocracy because many turkic aristocrats were admitted into the Muscovite nobility once they converted to Orthodoxy.)
There is actualy a much stronger slavic ellement in the Turks (they stole a LOT of woman from the Russians, even more were sold into the Muslim world).

Hitler style arguments that Russian "people are heavily mixed with Tatar/mongol muslim blood" proved not only nonsensical, but also sientificly wrong....

And by the way you havnt answered my question about your tribal pride.....

Oh and I forgot this: "You can't pull out neo nazi Jews like Zhirinovsky who hate Jews and claim they represent all Russian jews."

Were did Zhirinovskiy EVER said that he is a Jew or that he
"represent all Russian jews."???

You want the Russians slaughtered and their land taken over by Muslims dont you?

So you mean I shouldnt even bother with him?

I think you are right, I feel rather silly myself for have engadged in a "conversation" with him.....

Oh and since this Muslim took such a name I think I have to present what his prophet said about horses(From Bukhari): "The Prophet said, "Good will remain in the foreheads of horses for Jihad till the Day of Resurrection, for they bring about either a reward in the Hereafter or booty in this world." Allah’s Apostle fixed two shares for the horse and one share for its rider from the war booty."
"The Prophet said, "If somebody keeps a horse in Allah’s Cause motivated by his faith in Allah and his belief in His Promise, then he will be rewarded for what the horse has eaten or drunk and for its dung and urine."
"Allah’s Apostle said, "Horses are kept for one of three purposes. For some people they are a source of reward, for some they are a means of shelter, and for some they are a source of sins. The one for whom they are a source of reward is he who keeps a horse for Jihad in Allah’s Cause. He ties it with a long tether in a meadow or in a garden with the result that whatever it eats from the area of the meadow or garden will be counted as good deeds for his benefit, and if it should break its rope and jump over one or two hillocks then all its dung and its foot marks will be written as good deeds for him. And if it passes by a river and drinks water from it even though he had no intention of watering it, he will get the reward for its drinking. As for the man for whom horses are a source of sins, he is the one who keeps a horse for the sake of pretense, showing enmity for Muslims."

As you can see his prophet so loved horses because they can be used for war, he even promised Muslims a reward for their dung and urin......
Would Muhammad have come today he would have praised tanks the same way, but since there is little thinking among Muslims, they still prais horses.....

"Horse" wrote:

Armenians live in arab countries like lebanon and syria, without being attacked by hordes of Russian skinheads.
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Well, this is probably technically true—but only because it is hard to find "hordes of Russian skinheads" in Syria and Lebanon...

Horse, as a Hui, you ought to know that even at their worst under Mao, the Chinese Communists trotted out tame mullahs to tell the Arab and Malay worlds how wonderful things were in China--even when Muslim farmers were forced to raise "black bugs" and numerous observant Muslims in the Northwest and Yunnan were being murdered in purges. Yes, some of us can see that people outside our own "group" suffer, too.

The good treatment of Christians (and the remaining handful of Jews) in Syria is relative to other parts of the Muslim world.

Not with Russia but with the sovjet union....but since todays Russia presents itself as the heir of the SU and the SU itself began after 1941 to include russian nationalist ideas into its official propaganda bouth things got mixed up.

For Lenin on the other hand things were very diffrent, he often spoke with disgust about the Russians and the Russian empire, he openly proclaimed that he whished for Russias defeat in the 1stWorld war and said that "great Russian Chauvinism" is his greatest enemy. He saw Russia as a staging area of the world revolution, he often said that Berlin would be the capital city of the proletarian state and Esperanto its language. He thaught that it was very difficult to build socialism in Russia because of its backwardness instead hoping to use its recourses to conquer western Europe and build socialism there. The "Whites" who fought him mostly concidered themselvs to be russian nationalists who fight against proletarian internationalism.

At the beginning "Russia" and SU were oposite terms, but they later grew togather.

Unknown998

you made some excellent points against 'Horse'.

just so you know - have you read other threads in which he has turned up, busily throwing sand? - he is - or claims to be - a Chinese Mohammedan, a Hui Muslim. That is, he isn't an Arab, but he is firmly in the clutches of the Arab National/ Imperial Religion. I don't know whether he's made the Hajj yet, and kissed the magic black rock in Arabia, but he does seem to have spent some time hanging around in the Arab Muslim lands - most likely Syria.

And his sole aim and object here in this forum is (like that of every other Mohammedan dementor who has ever visited us) 1. to defend the Ummah and Islam and 2. to try to 'split the camp' of the infidels, by hook or by crook. (So he will relentlessly refer to and harp upon actual or supposed or invented points of friction between, say, Jews and Christians, or between Americans and Russians, or between Americans/ Christians and Hindus/ Indians).

Spirit of 1683

you argued that 'Horse' is "a self-hating wacko troll."

No, he's not a native westerner, no way. He has claimed, repeatedly, and I think convincingly (enough to convince Kepha, at least, who knows China at a level and depth that most of the rest of us don't) that he is a Chinese Mohammedan, a Hui Muslim.

His whole style and tone and a number of the rhetorical ploys he uses, are similar to those of other avowedly Muslim dementors who have frequented this forum in the past.

He is extremely aggressive toward me and toward Gravenimage, whom he knows to be western women. He used vulgarly insulting language toward Gravenimage.

His aggression toward 'Exiled Assyrian Christian' is ugly to see; as is his aggression toward the Hindu/ Indian posters here.

And did you notice the nasty way he talked to our Russian friend and colleague, Unknown 998, as soon as 'Unknown' challenged him?

However, Unknown scored some palpable hits, and I think any reasonable non-Muslim visitor here, viewing the exchange between Unknown and Horse, would see Unknown as the victor in the exchange. Unknown certainly came across as the most rational and self-controlled of the two.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/04/top-imam-calls-for-crescent-on-russias-crest.html#comment-779435

Christians from Syria themselves say they are treated good, the Syrian government bans islamist groups and a christian can hold any post except the presidency.