Jihad bomb murders 14 in Marrakesh cafe

Allah guarantees Paradise to those who “kill and are killed” for him (Qur’an 9:111).

“Blast kills 14 in Marrakesh cafe,” from AFP, April 28 (thanks to Block Ness):

MARRAKESH, Morocco (AFP) — A powerful blast ripped through a cafe in the Moroccan city of Marrakesh on Thursday, killing 11 foreigners and three Moroccans in what authorities suspect was the work of a suicide bomber.

“According to the information I have, it could have been perpetrated by a suicide bomber,” an official in the regional governor’s office told AFP.

“We found nails in one of the bodies,” added the official, who was in a hospital where some of the bodies were taken.

And an interior ministry official said that indications pointed to a terror attack on the Argana cafe in the main square of Marrakesh, a favourite haunt of foreign tourists.

But there were contradictory reports on exactly how the blast occurred.

One witness who was inside the cafe but escaped unscathed said: “An individual entered, ordered an orange juice and a few minutes later blew himself up.”

But another witness, quoted by several Moroccan radio stations, said the bomber dropped a suitcase and immediately walked out of the cafe….

Last January, Moroccan Interior Minister Taib Cherkaoui said 27 suspected terrorists recently arrested in the country’s south had ties to Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb (AQIM), an Al-Qaeda-linked regional offshoot, and to Europe-based. [sic] …

Cherkaoui then said the network had planned bank robberies in Casablanca and Rabat “to finance its terrorist actions.”

And his ministry said the network was led by “a Moroccan national who is a member of AQIM and who wanted to create a rear base in the country for terror attacks.”

Iraq: Jihad-martyrdom suicide bomber murders 10 inside Shi'ite mosque
"They said nothing's better than paradise and you can earn that by killing non-believers."
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Comments

  1. says

    Muslim terrorists are even getting bolder in the West due to Western leaders’ cowardice, and I suspect like in Italy, are using Muslim prostitutes to blackmail Western politicians, to submit to Islam (Thus, we can wonder why Berlusconi govt gave thousands of free visas to the 25,000 of mostly Tunisian and lIbyan refugess so quickly) – see extremely arrogant Muslim street prayers in Italy at http://europenews.dk/en/node/42686

    Video: Italy now has demonstrations of Islamic primacy.

    vladtepesblog 28 April 2011

  2. says

    The person who quoted Quran 9:111 as relavant to this attack is mistaken. This act has nothing to do with the Quran:

    Quran 9:13 “Wouldn’t you fight people who broke their
    covenant with you; attempted to expel the messenger and they started the agression against you?..”

    Quran 2.190 And fight in the way of God with those who fight with you, and do not start the agression surely God does not love those who start the agression.

    Quran 8.61 And if they incline to peace, then incline to it and trust in God; surely He is the Hearing, the Knowing.

    Quran 60.8 God does not forbid you from being just and kind to those who did not fight you for your religion nor drove you out from your homes. For God loves those who are just.

  3. says

    As ‘Jihadwatch’ has pointed out, Al Qaeda in Islamic Maghreb (AQIM) is currently undertaking violent, murderous jihad in various parts of North Africa, e.g.

    1.)”Bomb kills two Algerian gendarmes : security source”

    http://af.reuters.com/article/topNews/idAFJOE73R03J20110428

    2.)”Al-Qaeda building new base in Mali: security sources”

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5gsq3Z0XQXTRSuryCrlBOw-xYcXwQ?docId=CNG.27999a04bc06e05036cb9b41f305175d.2e1

    3.)”Niger leader calls for Western help against Al-Qaeda”

    http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5jDf0shiW01r79rWwDb3hvZ9lmCrQ?docId=CNG.1eba7b9c6a49dd1740b439ff354ea2e3.9a1

    4.)”Video Shows French Hostages Held by North African Al-Qaida Group”

    http://www.voanews.com/english/news/europe/Video-Shows-French-Hostages-Held-by-N-African-Al-Qaida-Group–120794704.html

  4. says

    I shall not look for it on Arab language Al Jazeera.

    I had my first dose of International Al Jazeera the other day. Earlier today I attempted the Arab version for a few minutes: vids shot on the battleground of some Arab city, probably in Syria. Smoke and explosions, yells and shouts, mostly “Allahu Akbar”, closeups of dead men, closeups of horrific injuries, closeups of men having horrific injuries patched up …is all this something children should see?

    I have heard that Arab TV doesn’t hold back. I hadn’t believed it until now.

  5. says

    @ Amro

    You’re a clown! Islam is a violent, supremacist ideology. This explosion has everything to do with the Qur’an, the handbook of all jihadists who murder in the name of their sick beliefs.

  6. says

    I wonder if this murder-bombing will even make a dent in the number of Western nitwit tourists (de facto traitors) who venture to Islamic Morocco for an “exotic” vacation.
    Kidnappings and killings certainly have tarnished the reputation of Acapulo, Mexico and reduced the spring break crowds to a trickle. But then, those tourists probably got their news about Mexico from High Times magazine referencing the drug wars. Not likely the Morocco crowd reads Jihad Watch, or they would have chosen one of a thousand better “exotic” locales.

  7. says

    Robert and Marisol …

    Please consider banning “Horse”, as I think most of us have had enough of his nonsense. For months he has done nothing but viciously attack one poster after another, and his comments are generally off-topic and distracting. Clearly, his intention is to disrupt this forum and bring it down.

    Thank you.

  8. says

    ‘Me thinks you protesteth too much’…The natives are ‘restive’ tonight…

    The bottom line is that Islam is an evil manifestation…
    It’s submitters prove it every day…The main book and hadith are full of it, Mahound is the daddy, sharia is the baby…
    The reason that Islam is evil, is because there is nothing good about it…

  9. says

    Amro,

    Islam’s totalitarianism leaves no cloaca unregulated: “Your apostle teaches you everything, even about excrement.”

    From Sahih Muslim, a canonical hadith collection:

    Book 002, Number 0504:

    Salman reported that it was said to him: Your Apostle (may peace be upon him) teaches you about everything, even about excrement. He replied: Yes, he has forbidden us to face the Qibla [direction of prayer, toward the Kaaba building in Mecca] at the time of excretion or urination…

    Does the placement of Islamic-law toilets inadvertently make them appear to orbit the Kaaba?

    Picture what it means that toilets in the Islamic world, in obedience to canonical hadiths like the one I just quoted above, will tend to be installed so that neither the front nor the back of the toilet points toward the Kaaba in Mecca. That means that they would all have one or the other side facing the Kaaba. Thus if one could take an aerial photo of all Islamic-law toilets, they would form a series of rings around Mecca, and would appear to be circling the Kaaba. Seen from above, Islamic-law toilets would appear to orbit the Kaaba. Cynosure of all righteous commodes. Holy sh-t!

    In highlighting that geometry, I don’t mean to be insulting. I’m pointing out the absurd result of an obsessively spatialized theology that seeks to control everything to the point of telling people in which direction they must defecate.

  10. says

    Amro,

    In core Islamic texts, Muhammad allows his soldiers to rape captive women:

    From Sahih Muslim, a canonical hadith collection:
    Book 008, Number 3371:

    Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa’id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): 0 Abu Sa’id, did you hear Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-‘azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi’l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing ‘azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah’s Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah’s Messenger [Muhammad] (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born.

    Notice that Muhammad did not say, “do not rape your captive women.” He merely says it does not matter if his soldiers withdraw before ejaculation, because souls destined by Allah to be born will be born regardless.

    From Sahih al-Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:
    Volume 5, Book 59, Number 459:

    Narrated Ibn Muhairiz:
    I entered the Mosque and saw Abu Said Al-Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about Al-Azl (i.e. coitus interruptus). Abu Said said, “We went out with Allah’s Apostle for the Ghazwa [battle at which Muhammad was present] of Banu Al-Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus, we said, ‘How can we do coitus interruptus before asking Allah’s Apostle [Muhammad] who is present among us?” We asked (him) about it and he said, ‘It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist.”

    Again notice that, in answer to his soldiers’ queries Muhammad doesn’t say “You must not force your captives to have intercourse with you.” He says only that coitus interruptus, withdrawing prior to ejaculation, is pointless, because souls predestined to exist will exist regardless.

    Again in Sahih al-Bukhari:
    Volume 7, Book 62, Number 137:

    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
    We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah’s Apostle [Muhammad] about it and he said, “Do you really do that?” repeating the question thrice, “There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection.”

    Thus Muhammad does not forbid his men to rape their captives, but merely says that it’s better not to do coitus interruptus. His men were to keep going till coitus was complete.

  11. says

    Amro,

    The heading of Chapter 29 of Sahih Muslim, a canonical hadith collection, is

    “IT IS PERMISSIBLE TO HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH A CAPTIVE WOMAN AFTER SHE IS PURIFIED (OF MENSES OR DELIVERY). IN CASE SHE HAS A HUSBAND, HER MARRIAGE IS ABROGATED AFTER SHE BECOMES CAPTIVE”

    The hadiths in Chapter 29 say that after a victory for the Muslims at the Battle of Hanain, and in response to the fact that Muhammad’s soldiers “seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women,” Muhammad produced Qur’an 4:24’s statement about slave girls/captive women,

    And all married women (are forbidden unto you) save those (captives) whom your right hands possess…

    Get it? Muhammad’s sock puppet Allah is telling his soldiers, “go ahead, boys, you can do the captives.”

  12. says

    In core Islamic texts, Muhammad says the minds of women are deficient

    In Sahih al-Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:

    Volume 3, Book 48, Number 826:

    Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:

    The Prophet said, “Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?” The women said, “Yes.” He said, “This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.”

  13. says

    In core Islamic texts, Muhammad says beat your wife, no questions asked

    In Sunan Abu Dawud, a canonical hadith collection:

    Book 11, Number 2142:

    Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab:

    The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.

  14. says

    In core Islamic texts, Muhammad repeatedly ordered stoning:

    In the most canonical hadith collection, Sahih al-Bukhari:

    Volume 8, Book 82, Number 805:

    Narrated Jabir bin Abdullah Al-Ansari:
    A man from the tribe of Bani Aslam came to Allah’s Apostle and informed him that he had committed illegal sexual intercourse and bore witness four times against himself. Allah’s Apostle [Muhammad] ordered him to be stoned to death as he was a married Person.

    Volume 8, Book 82, Number 809:
    Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:
    A Jew and a Jewess were brought to Allah’s Apostle on a charge of committing an illegal sexual intercourse. The Prophet asked them. “What is the legal punishment (for this sin) in your Book (Torah)?” They replied, “Our priests have innovated the punishment of blackening the faces with charcoal and Tajbiya.” ‘Abdullah bin Salam said, “O Allah’s Apostle, tell them to bring the Torah.” The Torah was brought, and then one of the Jews put his hand over the Divine Verse of the Rajam (stoning to death) and started reading what preceded and what followed it. On that, Ibn Salam said to the Jew, “Lift up your hand.” Behold! The Divine Verse of the Rajam was under his hand. So Allah’s Apostle [Muhammad] ordered that the two (sinners) be stoned to death, and so they were stoned. Ibn ‘Umar added: So both of them were stoned at the Balat and I saw the Jew sheltering the Jewess.

  15. says

    Amro,

    From a core Islamic text, a hadith in which Muhammad said there is to be no punishment for murdering someone who insults Muhammad

    From Sunan Abu-Dawud, a canonical hadith collection:
    Book 38, Number 4348:

    Narrated Abdullah Ibn Abbas:

    A blind man had a slave-mother [a slave who bore children for him] who used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. He [the blind man] forbade her but she did not stop. He rebuked her but she did not give up her habit. One night she began to slander the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and abuse him. So he [the blind man] took a dagger, placed it on her belly, pressed it, and killed her. A child who came between her legs was smeared with the blood that was there. When the morning came, the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) was informed about it.

    He assembled the people and said: I adjure by Allah the man who has done this action and I adjure him by my right to him that he should stand up. Jumping over the necks of the people and trembling the man stood up.

    He sat before the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and said: Apostle of Allah! I am her master; she used to abuse you and disparage you. I forbade her, but she did not stop, and I rebuked her, but she did not abandon her habit. I have two sons like pearls from her, and she was my companion. Last night she began to abuse and disparage you. So I took a dagger, put it on her belly and pressed it till I killed her.

    Thereupon the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Oh be witness, no retaliation is payable for her blood.

    Another canonical hadith:
    Sunan Abu-Dawud, Book 38, Number 4349:

    Narrated Ali ibn AbuTalib:

    A Jewess used to abuse the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and disparage him. A man strangled her till she died. The Apostle of Allah (peace_be_upon_him) declared that no recompense was payable for her blood.

  16. says

    Amro,

    THE LIGHTS ARE GOING OUT:

    Here’s a very incomplete list of organizations or people self-censoring, or hiring bodyguards, or going into hiding, or taking other precautions, and sometimes getting killed or wounded after receiving death threats and violence from Muslims following the example of Muhammad, who said there would be no punishment for murdering someone who had insulted him.

    Yale University Press (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Metropolitan Museum of Art (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    National Archives of Canada (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Director of the museum in the Hague, Wim van Krimpen (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    State Senator Greg Ball (receives suspicious package with greeting “Asa Lamu Laikum Dead Man Walking,” (the first part of which is Arabic for “peace be upon you”) ;

    2010 Tennessee candidate for Congress Lou Ann Zelenikj (death threats from Muslims);

    Barrister Tom Zreika (seeks police protection after non-stop phone threats from Muslims);

    Japanese translator of Rushdie, Hitoshi Igarashi (murdered);

    Norwiegan translator William Nygaard (shot);

    Italian translator Ettore Capriolo (knifed);

    French singer Veronique Sanson (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Artist Molly Norris (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats, changed name, went into hiding);

    The producers of South Park (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Journalist Lawrence O’Donnell (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Cartoonist Lars Vilks (house firebombed);

    Philosopher Robert Redeker (in hiding, under government protection);

    Filmmaker Theo Van Gogh (murdered);

    Author and former member of Dutch parliament Hirsi Ali (full-time bodyguards);

    Author Salman Rushdie (in hiding, under UK govt. protection);

    Danish newspaper Jyllands Posten (bodyguards hired);

    And again Jyllands Posten (five jihadists discovered planning to shoot as many people as possible);

    Atheist Sabri Husibi (death threats from Muslims);

    Lyricist Javed Akhtar (death threats from Muslims);

    Cartoonist Kurt Westergaard (almost killed by a Muslim with an axe);

    Director of the film 2012; the comedian Penn Jillette; the British potter Grayson Perry (all three self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Lawyer Majed Moughni (death threat from Muslim);

    Author Taslima Nasreen (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Disc jockey/musician Jakub Rene Kosik (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Coptic Orthodox priest Zakaria Botros (Al Qaeda bounty of $60 million on his head);

    Pop star Deeyah (hires extra bodyguards);

    Politician Shiria Khatun (forced by Muslim threats to her children to dress in a “less Western” manner);

    Christian minister Dr. Peter Hammond
    (death threat from Muslim);

    Actor Omar Sharif (Muslims call for his murder);

    Artist Sooreh Hera (self-censored by Muslim threats and forced into hiding);

    Artist Sarah Maple (gallery workers threatened, gallery window smashed, 24-hour police protection);

    Beatle Paul McCartney (death threats from Muslims);

    150 Austrian Coptic Christians (Austrian interior ministry found jihadist list targeting each of them for violent attack);

    100+ Canadian-Arab Christians (each one targeted on an Al Qaeda website);

    Volvo and Ikea (threatened by terrorist group);

    UK teacher Gary Smith
    (face slashed, skull fractured);

    UK Muslim scientist Usama Hasan (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Islam expert Robert Spencer; and again Robert Spencer; and again Robert Spencer; and again Ro…well, you get the idea.

    And countless others have been subjected to similar threats and violence.

    The lights are going out. The growth of Islam means the death of civil liberties. It’s time to resist.

  17. says

    @ Horse

    ‘…you can’t read arabic, so you can’t read the hadith’

    You’re another one of these clowns that pretends that Islamic texts written in arabic cannot be translated into any other language. But, of course, they can.

    Arabic is just like any other language. It can be translated.
    So, what you’re saying is horse-sh*t.

  18. says

    Canonical Hadith

    In the Qur’an “Allah” says at least 25 times that Muhammad is to be obeyed. That is one reason why most Muslim scholars accept the Bukhari hadiths and a few other hadith collections as authoritative for Muslims: canonical hadiths show what Muhammad did and said, permitted and forbade.

    Hadith is nothing but a reflection of the personality of the Prophet, who is to be obeyed at every cost. [From http://www.islaam.com/article.aspx?id=232 ]

    It is impossible to understand the Qur’an without reference to the Hadith… [From http://www.islamonline.net/en/IOLIslamics_C/1278407373109/1278406708816/-The-Importance-of-Hadith-in-Islam ]

    The overwhelming majority of Muslims consider hadith to be essential supplements to and clarifications of the Qur’an, Islam’s holy book, as well as in clarifying issues pertaining to Islamic jurisprudence [From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith#Usage ]

  19. says

    @ ‘horse’ and ‘call me lennie’ (the same person?)

    You were, and are, and always will be, a clown! Clear?

  20. says

    Oops, Buraq, I did not mean the above comment to be directed to you. Sorry. It was meant for Horse. I’ll repeat it for him:

    Horse,
    And one last point. I did not see the part of your earlier comments referring to pre-communist China. If it is true that Islam in pre-communist China was “moderate” by comparison with Islam in the Middle Eastern Islamic heartland, that relative moderation would be due to Muhammad’s Islam being diluted — watered down — by various moderating and pacific elements from Chinese culture. Islam itself is not moderate, though there are moderate Muslims (to paraphrase Ibn Warraq).

    Also, you have a bit of chutzpah to be offended that I did not respond to you at some point or other. You have never responded to any of the substantive points I’ve made, except to switch the subject or start name-calling. It was precisely because you did not respond in any sincere way to any of my points that I started ignoring your contributions, because you seemed to me not to be genuinely interested in dialog. Your goal seemed to be only to manipulate or provoke or propagandize. Possibly I’m mistaken about that. But if I am, that would be partly your fault.

  21. says

    On page 222 (326 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, he affirms that those who do not follow him will be slaughtered.

    Abu jahl said to them: “Muhammad alleges that if you follow him you will be kings of the Arabs and the Persians. Then after death you will be raised to gardens like those of the Jordan. But if you do not follow him you will be slaughtered, and when you are raised from the dead you will be burned in the fire of hell.” The apostle [Muhammad] came out to them with a handful of dust saying: “I do say that.”

  22. says

    In core Islamic texts, Muhammad says your “lives and property” are not safe from him unless you become a Muslim

    In Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, the two most canonical hadith collections:

    Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25:

    Narrated Ibn ‘Umar:

    Allah’s Apostle said: “I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform all that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah.”

    Sahih Muslim, Book 031, Number 5917:

    …Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: Allah’s Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people? Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger, and when they do that then their blood and their riches are inviolable from your hands but what is justified by law and their reckoning is with Allah.

  23. says

    Canonical hadiths say Muhammad (in his fifties) consummated his marriage to Aisha when she was nine (lunar) years old.

    A lunar year is about 355 days long, which means that Aisha may actually have been several months short of her ninth birthday.

    Some examples from Bukhari, which is the most canonical hadith collection:

    Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 64:

    Narrated ‘Aisha:

    that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old, and then she remained with him for nine years (i.e., till his death).

    —————————————————————————————–

    Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 65:

    Narrated ‘Aisha:

    that the Prophet married her when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old. Hisham said: I have been informed that ‘Aisha remained with the Prophet for nine years (i.e. till his death).”
    —————————————————————————————–

    Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 7, Book 62, Number 88:

    Narrated ‘Ursa:

    The Prophet wrote the (marriage contract) with ‘Aisha while she was six years old and consummated his marriage with her while she was nine years old and she remained with him for nine years (i.e. till his death).
    —————————————————————————————–

    Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:

    Narrated Hisham’s father:

    Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

  24. says

    “We [Muslims] smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.”

    — Muhammad’s companion and pupil Abu Darda talking, according to Al-Bukhari (compiler of the most canonical hadith collection), as quoted by Ibn Kathir, the Muslim world’s most respected Qur’an expositor.

    The Qur’an says Muslims must not be friends with unbelievers, except if it is necessary to pretend friendship with them, as a form of self-defense

    For example, Qur’an 3:28

    Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.

    Here’s what Ibn Kathir, perhaps the Muslim world’s most respected Quran expositor of all time, has to say about the Qur’an’s teachings on friendship with non-Muslims:

    The Prohibition of Supporting the Disbelievers

    Allah prohibited His believing servants from becoming supporters of the disbelievers, or to take them as comrades with whom they develop friendships, rather than the believers. Allah warned against such behavior when He said,

    (And whoever does that, will never be helped by Allah in any way)[Qur’an 3:28]

    meaning, whoever commits this act that Allah has prohibited, then Allah will discard him. Similarly, Allah said,

    (O you who believe! Take not My enemies and your enemies as friends, showing affection towards them),

    until,

    (And whosoever of you does that, then indeed he has gone astray from the straight path.) [Qur’an 60:1].

    Allah said,

    (O you who believe! Take not for friends disbelievers instead of believers. Do you wish to offer Allah a manifest proof against yourselves) [Qur’an 4:144],

    and,

    (O you who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians as friends, they are but friends of each other. And whoever befriends them, then surely, he is one of them.)[Qur’an 5:51].

    Allah said, after mentioning the fact that the faithful believers gave their support to the faithful believers among the Muhajirin [those who emigrated with Muhammad from Mecca to Medina], Ansar [citizens from Medina who helped Muhammad] and Bedouins,

    (And those who disbelieve are allies of one another, (and) if you do not behave the same, there will be Fitnah and oppression on the earth, and a great mischief and corruption.) [Qur’an 8:73].

    Allah said next [in Qur’an 3:28]

    (unless you indeed fear a danger from them)

    meaning, except those believers who in some areas or times fear for their safety from the disbelievers. In this case, such believers are allowed to show friendship to the disbelievers outwardly, but never inwardly. For instance, Al-Bukhari [compiler of the most canonical hadith collection] recorded that Abu Ad-Darda [a companion and pupil of Muhammad] said, “We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.” Al-Bukhari said that Al-Hasan said, “The Tuqyah [or taqqiyah, deception on behalf of Islam] is allowed until the Day of Resurrection.”

    “We smile in the face of some people although our hearts curse them.” A deception “allowed until the Day of Resurrection.” Thus you have a mainstream pious Islamic idea of “friendship” with non-believers.

  25. says

    Horse sez to Traeh…’first of all you illiterate, you can’t read arabic, so you can’t read the hadith’…

    We often hear that claim about the Quran…Does this mean that there are hidden meanings in these writings that can’t be known without Arabic?…Does this mean that my English Quran is wrong? In what way?
    If my English Quran is wrong, or seriously incomplete, it is blasphemy to produce it, or distribute it…The major printers and distributer are Mahoundians…CAIR gives out this blasphemy for free…
    I guess they will have to answer to Allah for ‘spreading this mischief in the land’…These spreaders of misinformation better hope Allah is in a good mood…You know how cranky he is before morning coffee…

  26. says

    Traeh, I copied your verse from Bukhari, about Mohammed saying;

    Volume 9, Book 84, Number 57:
    Narrated ‘Ikrima:

    ‘Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.'”

    I sent it to a Muslim-colleaque. And he, thinking perhaps that I am a rather uninformed guy, like the rest of my Islam-ignorant, political-correct colleaques, responded:

    That that was taken out of context. And that the real meaning of the verse was like:
    “When someone changed his religion, AND ALSO fights against the Muslims, then kill him”. So basically he was saying that when someone changes his religion only, the killing command does not apply.

    Because of maintaining the peace among our colleaques-group, I ostensibly accepted his explanation, but it is clearly a lie of him, or perhaps this lie was fed to him in his mosque, hey?

  27. says

    Correction; What hundreds of Muslims genuinely believe, should be: What hundreds of MILLIONS of Muslims genuinely believe.

  28. says

    Hey amro, get this in your head of these hard truths – the koran is Satanic through and through! Humanity has been MASS TORTURED, RAPED and MURDERED since the Arabic Pedophile rapist, robber, slave-owner (including sexual slaves such as young Jewish captive girls), and mass murderer of the Jews, Mohammed, created Islam and the koran, in order to construct politically pure Arabian kingdom and legitimize his and his tribe’s evil Arabic socio-cultural practices. As a non-Arab ex Muslim, I detest such savage imperialism by the Arabs on non-Arab lands and people through this evil Arabic cult, Islam, which god is the Devil!

  29. says

    “The person who quoted Quran 9:111 as relavant to this attack is mistaken. This act has nothing to do with the Quran”

    LIAR …

    This crime has everything to do with the qur’an, it is a manual-4-murder.

  30. says

    You quote 2:190 as a reason NOT to attack western targets, but surely the fact that we dare to reject the calls to adopt sharia law, the nerve we have to enter into agreements with islamic countries and have troops stationed there at their behest, the fact we are involved in three ultimately futile efforts in islamic countries to build a fair, democratic state, and the sheer audacity we show in allowing Israel to exist are all “perfectly valid” justifications to attack us.

    Islam has, for most of it’s history, invaded and conquered lands with no provocation. As Islam is “perfect and immutable” what makes it any different today?

  31. says

    Naskh n.

    Literal meaning of Naskh: Abrogation, replacement of one thing by another thing. Technical meaning: Lifting of a law of Sharia by the reasons of another law of Sharia.

  32. says

    @ amro.

    then what has it to do with? exactly? you are pretty confident it “has nothing to do with the koran” yet it follows and is identical to modus operandi of moslem suicide bombers/murderers.. it happened in a moslem country and its a tragedy based on beleif in your medieval doctrine. no mention of that. just subterfuge.. as per mo’s instructions.

    a few glib quotes doesn’t patch this up. as for quoting the koran, most here have read it, or enough of it. if you can’t say anything with actual substance, even with facts bleeding all over you, then take deebartoks advice on the chin. piss off. you have nothing to contribute except adding impetus and ammo with your pissweak take on bloody murder.

    be a man and speak plainly. i assume youre a man as no ‘good’ moslem woman would be allowed to be doing this.

    EVERY comment and EVERY reaction on this site is down to the koran. EVERY story on here has its roots in its teachings.

    WTF are you talking about? it has EVERYTHING to do with the koran. if not, then i ask, again, what has it to do with?

    well?

    to use the standard online moslem insult: “you are a gay”

  33. says

    Amro,

    Qur’an 9:29 does not say “fight in self-defense.” It says “fight those who do not believe” in Islam.

    Quran 9:29:

    Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger [Muhammad] have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth [Islam], out of those who have been given the Book [the Bible, given to Christian and Jews], until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection [this “subjection” is a source of Islamic law’s institution of dhimmitude, i.e., third-class legal status for non-Muslims].

  34. says

    Amro,

    Muhammad, in core Islamic texts, rejects religious pluralism

    For example, in Sahih Muslim, a canonical hadith collection.

    Book 19, No. 4366

    It has been narrated by ‘Umar b. al-Khattib that he heard the Messenger of Allah [Muhammad] (may peace be upon him) say:”I will expel the Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula and will not leave any but Muslim.”

  35. says

    Amro,

    The Qur’an speaks of terrorizing and beheading non-Muslims

    Qur’an Chapter 8, Verse 12

    When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them.

  36. says

    Is Amro whitewashing Islam and Muhammad?

    From Sahih al-Bukhari, the most canonical hadith collection:

    Volume 3, Book 49, Number 857:

    Narrated Um Kulthum bint Uqba:

    That she heard Allah’s Apostle [Muhammad] saying, “He who makes peace between the people by inventing good information or saying good things, is not a liar.”

  37. says

    From page 464 (690 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, Muhammad presides over the beheading of 600 to 900 Jews:

    Then [the Banu Qurayza tribe] surrendered, and the apostle [Muhammad] confined them in Medina in the quarter of d. al-Harith, a woman of B. al-Najjar. Then the apostle went out to the market of Medina (which is still its market today) and dug trenches in it. Then he sent for them and struck off their heads in those trenches as they were brought out to him in batches. Among them was the enemy of Allah Huyayy b. Akhtab and Ka`b b. Asad their chief. There were 600 or 700 in all, though some put the figure as high as 800 or 900. As they were being taken out in batches to the apostle they asked Ka`b what he thought would be done with them. He replied, ‘Will you never understand? Don’t you see that the summoner never stops and those who are taken away do not return? By Allah it is death!’ This went on until the apostle made an end of them.

  38. says

    Hey, savage, this is YOUR death cult at work. Murderlust is inherent to Islam. It has murdered, raped and pillaged its way throutgh the last 1,400 years, and it shows no signs of stopping anytime. Islam is barbaric and its followers are cold-hearted barbarians with a brutal and sadistic hate-filled mind to match. Your evil Koran tells you to murder in cold blood just like Mohammed did, and no amount of lies from yourself will alter that. Anyway, off to Pakistan you go, barbarian.

  39. says

    Katharina says- “I detest such savage imperialism by the Arabs on non-Arab lands and people”

    (and katharina is the one who is going off topic about italy, to anyone who complains about my post not being about marrakesh)

    You are a Malay so you should know about the Dayaks already.

    Before Islam came to Borneo, the animist and polythiest Dayaks were chopping the heads off people and engaging in strange “erotic” dances and rituals with the severed heads, which included their women and girls, who demanded that male suitors bring them severed heads as dowry gifts.

    Whenever a Dayak was converted to Islam, their savage headhunting was stopped and put an end to.

    Alot were converted to christianity by the Dutch, but strangely, as soon as the Dutch were gone, these “christian” dayaks went on head hunting rampages once again repeatedly.

    They attacked Chinese in the 60’s, and they also attacked Muslim Madurese and some Dayaks ran around waving Madurese heads in front of cameras and foreigners, some sick dayak pervert girls even participated.

    These are Dayak with the severed head of a Madurese child

    http://www.fica.org/hr/ambon/ambon1/Sanggauledo2.jpg

    http://www.fica.org/hr/ambon/ambon1/Sanggauledo1.jpg

    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2001/02/0227_borneo.html

    http://www.insightnewstv.com/d54/

    Non muslim Dayaks in Borneo, indonesia, with assitance from the indonesian army, went on rampages against ethnic Chinese numerous times.

    http://www.google.fr/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=In+1967%2C+Dayaks+had+expelled+Chinese+from+the+interior+of+West+Kalimantan.+In+this+Chinese+ethnic+cleansing%2C+Dayaks+were+coopted+by+the+military+who+wanted+to+remove+those+Chinese

  40. says

    Look, Dummy!

    Katharina, as far as I’m concerned, can veer slightly off-topic whenever she wishes. You, on the other hand, constantly bring up the smokescreen of Malay this and Malay that.

    Look dummy! My wife is Malay, and I own property in those parts. I know a thing or two about history, being a University Professor, so quit with your BS and JUST LEAVE!!

    YOU ARE A LYING, OBFUSCATING MUSLIM. YOU ARE NOT WELCOME HERE.

    LEAVE. NOW. ASSHOLE.

  41. says

    Hey horse, back as usual with your pathetic lies in defending your savage Islam!It was Arabic-led Islam that is making many Malay crazy – Malays used to be sophisticated people when the British were still ruling Malaysia who brought so much modernity to Malaysia including roads and education for women and girls. When the British left, Islam-Arabicization became more dominant especially through the Nazi-like Muslim Brotherhood brinwashing of Muslim religious teachers starting in the 80s, who went to study in Univ. Al-Azhar in Egypt. They began to force young girls in schools to put on that ugly hideous Arabic veil!

    And then your lies about the Dayaks – pathetic as usual. The Dayaks became civilized due to Christianity as brought by the British. And in Kalimantan of Borneo Indonesia, the arrogant Javanese Muslim settlers came and took their land – thus the grieviences of the Dayaks! Now, these Javanese Muslim settlers are doing the same in Hindu-dominated Bali!

  42. says

    Good on ya, Deebartok. Good on ya.

    More and more headlines remind of the headlines of the news media of the time of the rise of the third reich and it’s islam copying atrocities, and also, more and more I’m reminded of the American Old West and its lawlessness, originally. They learned how to take care of the vermin in the Old West, and they did it, and eventually tamed the vermin outlaws! And vermin is all the terrorists are!

    So it goes in the world, today, driven by a vermin gang!

  43. says

    “I own property in those parts”

    LOL. Do you really? You must be right then.

    You want to watch out though, according to Maxie just visiting an Islamic country makes you a traitor so I shudder to think what owning property in one makes you…..

  44. says

    I agree with you, Deebartok. But this jackass will never leave on his own accord. Imo, he should be banned. Horse goes off-topic on every thread, and then proceeds to drag down those threads – and hes been getting away with this tactic for months. It’s obvious that this strategy of his is intentional and it really needs to stop. I think that Robert ought to roundup this cowpoke and permanently send him out to pasture …

  45. says

    deebartok, thanks for that bold statement against that lying horse! Do you know P. Ramlee films – look at how modern the Malay women were, in sexy clothes, even the traditional ones and many are educated. All thanks to the British – I wish they had never left; Islam would have wash down the drain where it belongs! And luckily for the Singaporeans, they broke away from Malaysia and continue to look West – look at how sophisticated the Singaporeans today. Unfortunately today, many Malay Singaporeans are also being brainwashed by the Arab-led Islam and many women/girls have put on the ugly Arabic veil!

  46. says

    Lets see the master “deebeartok”‘s little tantrums-

    he first claimed his wife was filipino, and now hes saying shes a malay. LOL. Malays are muslim. you cannot be married to a malay unless you are muslim as well.

    _________________________________________________________

    “AND my wife is Filipina, asshole. My kids are half.”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/01/philippines-misunderstanders-of-islam-murder-five-wound-13-in-jihad-attack-on-crowded-bus.html#comment-752704
    _______________________________________________________
    “GO DIE!

    YOU AND YOUR DUMBASS “students” – whatever that has to do with one nitwit blowing himself to bits, I haven’t a clue…”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/04/gaza-jihadi-accidentally-blows-himself-up-without-murdering-any-infidels.html#comment-779039
    ________________________________________________________
    And over here, deebartok displays his intelligence regarding Malaysia, failing to understand that Malay law says that muslims are RACIALLY Malay

    “For God’s sake – oops! Allah’s, or whatever, just give it up. You don’t get it. ISLAM IS NOT A RACE! You are a Muslim and your arguments, simply, do not follow”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/04/malaysia-non-muslims-who-quote-quran-can-be-arrested.html#comment-776279

    Mr. deebartok apparently failed to read the article, where it said RIGHT in the article that -“This is to ensure that racial harmony is maintained,” he told Datuk Ibrahim Ali (Ind-Pasir Mas).”

    deebartok, AKA supreme moron, apparently has never been to Malaysia, otherwise he would have understood that Malay RACIAL supremacy is enshrined in the laws, through Article 153 of the Malaysian Constiution, in which Ketuanan Melayu (malay supremacy) is written into law above all other races.

    non malay muslims are forced by the racist malays to identify as racially malay by the racist malay state.

  47. says

    Amazonas,
    Glad I could get a reaction. What do you mean by intolerant? That’s an elastic term that could apply to anyone from Mr Rogers to Hitler. I happen to think that oblivious non-Muslims, whatever their intentions, visiting Islamic countries are hastening their own demise (and mine), by enriching a medieval aggresive enemy. That makes them de facto traitors in my book, just as someone visiting Hitler’s Germany was. Of course, I didn’t say they deserved to die for being thoughtless tourists, but it’s interesting how you gratuitously mentioned Christian “f-heads” in your response. Now who’s intolerant?

  48. says

    Hi Maxie ! Thanks for the reply. You were asking what I meant by intolerant? Well okay, for example, you seemed to employ a sweeping generalization with the term “The Morocco Crowd” seemingly implying that all people who visit Morocco are traitors who don’t share your political views.

    There are, I believe, something like 51 “Islamic” counties (though what exactly defines an Islamic country is maybe a debate for another time). So are you saying anyone visiting any one of those countries is a traitor? That’s a lot of traitors.

    The US 6th fleet is based in Bahrain. When the sailors go ashore and maybe do some shopping they are spending money in an Islamic country, just like the tourists in Morocco. Are they traitors or do they get a mulligan for being in the military?

    If I happen to change planes in Dubai on my way from say Europe to India if I buy something in a shop at the airport am I a traitor?

    You know one thing I’d really like to see in my lifetime is Crac des Chevaliers. I believe it’s one of the biggest and best preserved medieval castles in the world. Built by the Crusaders, you know those fighting Christian chaps. Trouble is right now it’s in Syria. So I guess in your book that’s out, right? Could I maybe go now while the Assads are still running the joint seeing as they are little harsh on the Islamos? Would that be okay do you think?

    As you can see this treachery thing is tricky to navigate.

    Oh the Christian fundementalist fuckheads? That’s what I think of them. That’s freedom of speech and freedom of thought which I though we cherished here. I don’t have any intention of harming them or making them change what they are. That’s tolerance.

    Happy to iron that out. Have a great day and don’t let me catch you enriching our enemies, you know, like buying oil or something.

  49. says

    “Madurese” are not from Java. they are from madura.

    In Indonesia, Christian dayaks were witnessed dancing around the streets with severed heads of their enemies and preserving them in traditional fashion.

    I don’t even want to get into what Dayak men used to do to their genitalia as part of their “tradition”- lets just say they stuck a few things that didn’t belong in there.

    These uncivilized Dayaks are prime examples of non Muslim racist brutal tribesmen. When they were animist they sneaked up on victims, women and children, to cut their heads off in their headhunting games, and even when the Dutch made them christian they continued their nasty habit.

    They don’t only hunt non dayaks, these barbarians also cut the heads off other dayak rivals as well, never in battle, always sneaking up on the victim.
    ______________________________________________________________
    Syed Hussein Alatas was a Malay descended from an Arab great grandfather, his political party had many non muslim Chinese as members, he was the one of the few who opposed other non arab descended, pure blooded malays bent on marginalizing non muslims.

    Alatas promoted non muslim Chinese and Indians to academic positions, and he criticized european colonialists for insulting southeast asian people like filipinos as lazy.

    I have read works which included descriptionsn of Alatas, like “Islam, motor or challenge of modernity”, he was a great, secularlist intellectual and leader in Malaysia.

  50. says

    Sir Chimp

    I didn’t know the Jewish birthrate in Israel had anything to do with an attempted bombing of an indonesian church

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/04/indonesia-jihadists-wanted-to-film-broadcast-murderous-church-bombing.html#comment-781003

    neither did I know that India, Russia, and other countries had anything to do with an Iranian General offering constructive criticism

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/04/top-iranian-general-western-states-must-pay-respect-to-muslims-holy-book-the-quran-as-much-as-they-s.html#comment-782289

    There are multiple other examples of your crowd veering far, far off topic, to the point of oblivion, Sir Chimp.

  51. says

    NO – you hold the record for getting off-topic, and everyone here knows it.

    And why are you directing me to comments made by dda on those other threads? Seems you’re confusing me with her. Hmm, you must be having trouble keeping track of all the people that you’re at odds with here …

  52. says

    Clearly, his intention is to disrupt this forum and bring it down.

    Hi Champ…Many have tried but none have succeeded…JW and Robert are protected by a swami shield…SHH no one knows about it but us…

  53. says

    Wow!
    You know what, buddy/chick. I give up on you. You’re simply hopeless.

    But I’m glad, in a sense, that I got your ire up, because basically, your whole twisted, Islamic Racial Theory falls apart when one considers mixed-racial/religious marriages that have children as a product of the union. What race and religion are they, genius? We know what it is in Islam.

    By the way, Merry-go-Round Boy – have you ever actually been to, or lived in any Islamic country other than the particular Mohammedan shithole I suppose you are in now?

    I doubt it.

    I see, also, that you’ve been a particularly devious and astute Muslim troll in that you noted my wife is a Filipina. That’s creepy, dude.

    Nevertheless, part of your insulting post posits that Filipinas cannot be of Malay descent. I believe you are incorrect.

    But anyway, I stand corrected Horseyboy, if that’s the way you like it. Perhaps you could discuss all of your assertions with my wife, who would be happy to school you a bit.

    As for your various monikers that you have assigned me –

    I like the one, “master, deebartok”.

    That sounds good.

    Now, for a change, you Muslims will know what’s like, eh, Horseyboy?

  54. says

    And here’s another one for you, illiterate horse boy. Muslim is not an ethnicity but religion. Many native Filipinos are Malays and became Christian after the Spanish and American came, and then the Balinese are also Malay but are Hindus. Unfortunately, in Malaysia, due to intensive Arabicization-Islamisation, Malays became Muslim and stupid Malay leaders form the most savage law into the Constitution that Malays are born Muslims, as if in their blood originally. That is pure evil – and horsey boy, you had better get civilized with modern education, not promoting your primitive and savage Arabic-Islamic propaganda crap here!

  55. says

    You’re welcome dear. I, curiously am considering a post right now in Singapore.

    As for our future “bannee”, I just felt I had to step in there. Thanks for the comments and Ramlee suggestion.

    No I haven’t seen the work. I will try, and get back to you.

  56. says

    I hear you! …yeah allah is a bogus substitute, that’s for sure …

    And this from Deebartok …”That’s creepy, dude” …really struck me, since that’s exactly how mohammedans make me feel in general. Know what I mean?

  57. says

    first of all you illiterate, you can’t read arabic, so you can’t read the hadith

    second, you failed to respond when i totally ripped a new hole is your false claim that Islam in China is “watered down”- first of all moron, it was the panchen lama, not dalai lama, and second, northern thailand and taiwan aren’t under the control of communists, third, I gave numerous examples from before 1950, when communists were NOT in power.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/04/missouri-house-votes-to-ban-sharia.html#comment-781468

  58. says

    Did you use google translate for this comment you made to “call me lennie?”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/04/top-iranian-general-western-states-must-pay-respect-to-muslims-holy-book-the-quran-as-much-as-they-s.html#comment-782214

    كنت مهرج

    kont moharej

    “kont” means “you were” – كنت

    I have no idea what this sentence was trying to insinuate. “were you a clown?”?????????
    ????????

    did you mean to say “you are a clown”?

    The pronoun for you in arabic is Anta, “You are a clown” should be

    أنت مهرج

    anta moharej

    my native language is not Arabic, but I’m pretty sure you’re very wrong.

    Don’t use the translator, if you did use that device.

    some native speaker come and school these noobies in arabic.

  59. says

    And one last point. I did not see the part of your earlier comments referring to pre-communist China. If it is true that Islam in pre-communist China was “moderate” by comparison with Islam in the Middle Eastern Islamic heartland, that relative moderation would be due to Muhammad’s Islam being diluted — watered down — by various moderating and pacific elements from Chinese culture. Islam itself is not moderate, though there are moderate Muslims (to paraphrase Ibn Warraq).

    Also, you have a bit of chutzpah to be offended that I did not respond to you at some point or other. You have never responded to any of the substantive points I’ve made, except to switch the subject or start name-calling. It was precisely because you did not respond in any sincere way to any of my points that I started ignoring your contributions, because you seemed to me not to be genuinely interested in dialog. Your goal seemed to be only to manipulate or provoke or propagandize. Possibly I’m mistaken about that. But if I am, that would be partly your fault.

  60. says

    Horse, as anyone can see, every hadith I quoted above is linked to its source at the University of Southern California hadith database. Your claim that the translations there — all done by Muslim scholars — are not reasonably accurate English renderings of the meanings of the hadiths is absurd. When Muhammad is quoted saying, “If someone changes his Islamic religion, then kill him,” how would you translate that? “If someone changes his Islamic religion, then throw daisies and buttercups at him”?

    Your descent into name calling only shows that your arguments can’t stand on their own. Even if you are determined to deny the plain meaning of the canonical hadiths, many other observers are still capable of seeing and morally evaluating Muhammad’s words and actions in the core Islamic texts. More and more people are finding out what Muhammad was about. The theocrats and dictators can’t control or stop critical discussion of the core texts any more.

    Your claim that the Chinese dictatorship permits Islam to express itself in a way that the dictatorship does not control is, at best, unbelievably naive on your part. The one thing about which you are correct is that the Chinese tried to impose a “panchen” lama, not a “dalai” lama. But that bit of trivia doesn’t at all alter the essential point I was making: the Chinese government seeks, often ruthlessly, to control the religions within its domains. It does that to Christians; it does that to the Tibetens; it does it to Islam.

    Do you think the Chinese government is a good government, Horse? Your answer to that might clear up quite a bit about you.

    Horse, you have never explained how it is you can follow a man who said,

    “Whoever changed his Islamic religion, then kill him.”

    Can you tell us what the Arabic of that hadith really says? Is there something about buttercups?

  61. says

    Amazonia,
    Thanks for clarifying, sorta. First, notice that your first response was deleted, most likely because of your cursing about Christians. I suspect your latest will be soon also.
    BTW, is “f-heads” less tolerant than “de facto traitors”? Notice I said “de facto”, which you should have detected is a way of saying different from a classic traitor in the legal sense. Sorta like Spencer’s right to censor you is not a violation of your freedom of speech, since this site is his private property.
    Yes, I think pleasure visits to Islamic states with sharia laws like Morocco, which has many controls on non-Muslim activity, is rather despicable, or “traitorous,” these days, despite the interesting sights. Would going to Oktoberfest in Munich in 1939 be a patriotic thing for an American to do?
    I happen to have been one of those who visited Bahrain, as an Army Reservist taking a trip on a military HSV catamaran. I was on orders, so I get a mulligan, you don’t. Also spent a year in Kuwait/Iraq deployed. Took my leave and went to Europe to sight-see. I don’t agree with the war, which “de facto” is building pure Islamic states, but think advocating against it internally is more productive then dropping out. I’m a big advocate of recycling, humane population control and getting away from Islamic petroleum, which I’m sure we’d be off by now if everyone felt the same way.

  62. says

    Amazonia,
    Thanks for clarifying, sorta. First, notice that your first response was deleted, most likely because of your cursing about Christians. I suspect your latest will be soon also.
    BTW, is “f-heads” less tolerant than “de facto traitors”? Notice I said “de facto”, which you should have detected is a way of saying different from a classic traitor in the legal sense. Sorta like Spencer’s right to censor you is not a violation of your freedom of speech, since this site is his private property.
    Yes, I think pleasure visits to Islamic states with sharia laws like Morocco, which has many controls on non-Muslim activity, is rather despicable, or “traitorous,” these days, despite the interesting sights. Would going to Oktoberfest in Munich in 1939 be a patriotic thing for an American to do?
    I happen to have been one of those who visited Bahrain, as an Army Reservist taking a trip on a military HSV catamaran. I was on orders, so I get a mulligan, you don’t. Also spent a year in Kuwait/Iraq deployed. Took my leave and went to Europe to sight-see. I don’t agree with the war, which “de facto” is building pure Islamic states, but think advocating against it internally is more productive then dropping out. I’m a big advocate of recycling, humane population control and getting away from Islamic petroleum, which I’m sure we’d be off by now if everyone felt the same way.

  63. says

    hey horse boy (how dare you call the very educated Traeh ‘illitereate’ – you’re the extremely stupid one!), your evil lies in defending Islam and the Arabs are pathetic! Look at the Arab countries – they’re stll raping children in child-bride marriages, murdering women/girls in honour killing, veiling women like ninja zombies – so disgusting! If the Arabs don’t have any oil – they produce nothing for the civilized world since Mohammed’s day except MASS RAPE; MURDER AND ROBBERY, especially of women/girls and Jews/’infidels’!

    By the way, it was Arabic culture who made Javanese (the Madurese are Javanese you illiterate boy) and Malay Muslims stupid and crazy, through the savage and evil Islam! I repeat, your Arab-Islam god is the DEVIL!

  64. says

    traeh, I’ll reply only for the Quranic verses, because Hadith—whether Bukhari or Muslim, as well as many interpretations on the Quran—were written down in Bagdad 300 yrs after Mohammad had died.

    As for verse 9:29, it should be read in context with the following Quranic verses:

    “And so We revealed to you (Mohamad) an Arabic Quran to warn the mother of the villages (Mecca) and whoever is around it..” Quran 42:7-8

    “And had your Lord willed, He would have made humans one nation; and even then they would still disagree. Except whom your Lord had mercy on them..” Quran 11:118-119

    “And to every nation We made for them their own rituls so that they celebrate the name of God upon what we have bestowed on them.” Quran 22:34 (also see Quran 22:67)

    So 9:29 apply for the Arabic-speaking Christians and Jews and others who live in the confines of the Islamic nation (Arabic Mecca and whoever is around it). And keep in mind that the Muslims pay zakat (a purification tax). So the non-muslims have to pay something, and at that time the Muslims were majority anyway. Mohammad did not venture outside Arabia during his lifetime. The expansion outside of Arabia was done by his successors. The Quran is written in Rhymed Poetry and Rhymed Prose, so the beauty of it (i.e, divinity) could only be appreciated by well educated Arabic readers. Of course everybody is welcome to become Muslims, but the target audiance of the Quran is Arabic speaking people. Aslo 9:29 should be read in the context of the following verses:

    22:17 Those who believed and the Jews and the Christians and the Sabians and the Magians and the Polytheists God will judge between them in the day of Judgement, for God is a witness over everything.”

    2.62 Surely those who believe, and those who are Jews, and the Christians, and the Sabians, whoever believes in God and the Last day and does good, they shall have their reward from their Lord, and there is no fear for them,
    nor shall they grieve.

    5.69 Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in God and the last day and does good– they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.

  65. says

    “traeh, I’ll reply only for the Quranic verses, because Hadith—whether Bukhari or Muslim, as well as many interpretations on the Quran—were written down in Bagdad 300 yrs after Mohammad had died.”

    Please Amro, distinquish between what you believe and what the vast majority of Muslims believe. And broadcast and practice, for us Kuffars to hear and see all the time.

    What use is it to call yourself a Muslim and arrogantly explaining what Islam is and is not, when the names Muslims is also the legitimate name for 1,57 billion people? Who have so many different interpretations than yours of Islam.

    But still you refuse to distinquish yourself from them, by forming some separate group, with your Islam-interpretation, with a separate new name, with firm conditions on membership of that group and use of that new name.

    What you “moderate Muslims” are doing seems so hopeless; trying to convince Kuffars that Islam is NOT what hundreds of genuine Muslims believe, broadcast and practice. But NOT separating yourself from them.

    But it perhaps would be a good development when someone like Robert Spencer or Geert Wilders would listen to all sorts of interpretations of Islam, excuses, lies or really meant, and proposed to Muslims and political-correct media, politicians and citizens a sanitized version of Islam, based on these excuses, lies or really meant different interpretations of Muslims. And asked you to: Support it, name it, put conditions on membership and name-use.

    Then you would be in agreement with Islam-wise, democratic politicians and citizens and you could then use your energy and eloquence to debate with Muslims in the world, who still use the old names Muslims and Islam.

    And who still believe in and practice many Hadiths. Who still oblige people “born or converted into Islam” to remain Muslims all their lives, on pain of death. which is completely opposite to putting reasonable conditions upon membership and use of names.

  66. says

    Amro, if you reject even the “sahih” Hadith, and thus go against the overwhelming majority of Muslim scholars, how can you practice Islam at all? Four of the five “pillars” of Islam are not even described in the Qur’an. One can only find out about them through the Hadith and histories. If you deprive Islam of its pillars, it will do what other structures do when deprived of supports: fall to the ground.

    Pillar 1. The Shahada: to testify that there is no God but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah’s messenger. The Shahada is not in the Qur’an. It can be found in Tabari and in Ishaq.

    Pillar 2. Salat: the compulsory congregational prayer. The five daily prayers are not in the Qur’an, only in the hadith. The Qur’an mentions three prayers, and doesn’t describe them. For a description of proper Islamic prayer, one must depend on the Hadith.

    Pillar 3. Zakat: obligatory “charity.” The terms of Zakat are not described in the Qur’an. They are known through Ishaq, then through Tabari.

    Pillar 4. Hajj: pilgrimage to Mecca. Explanations of the hajj are only found in the traditions of Muhammad, not in the Qur’an. No aspect of the hajj can be performed without referring to the Hadith.

    Pillar 5. fast during Ramadan: this is the only pillar described in the Qur’an. But much of the meaning of it is found only in the Hadith.

    Since you apparently did not see it earlier, I’ll show you again:

    Canonical Hadith

    In the Qur’an “Allah” says at least 25 times that Muhammad is to be obeyed. That is one reason why most Muslim scholars accept the Bukhari hadiths and a few other hadith collections as authoritative for Muslims: canonical hadiths show what Muhammad did and said, permitted and forbade.

    Hadith is nothing but a reflection of the personality of the Prophet, who is to be obeyed at every cost. [From http://www.islaam.com/article.aspx?id=232 ]

    It is impossible to understand the Qur’an without reference to the Hadith… [From http://www.islamonline.net/en/IOLIslamics_C/1278407373109/1278406708816/-The-Importance-of-Hadith-in-Islam ]

    The overwhelming majority of Muslims consider hadith to be essential supplements to and clarifications of the Qur’an, Islam’s holy book, as well as in clarifying issues pertaining to Islamic jurisprudence [From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hadith#Usage ]

    The truth is, Amro, I’m not posting for you. I’m posting for people who are not already brainwashed.

  67. says

    Sorry – had to send this to you. From my book of poems that I just completed. I think you’ll see the connection…
    ________

    Unholy Water

    One knows when one has had enough of a place. The mind turns dark with bizarre, violent fantasies. I had these fantasies at work, where I used to teach. It was time to resign.

    There was a man who particularly irked me. I admit; he got under my skin. He was a teacher of Islamic Studies, if you can possibly imagine the need for such a thing.

    Often, (whenever I passed by his “office”) I observed him with headphones on – You Tube featuring some absurd, ranting Islamo-preacher losing it over the Palestinians again.

    His physical appearance, though, was most truly revolting to me. A lumbering, duck-footed barbarian he was, swinging his prayer beads as he made his way to the office toilet, sure to leave a few good turds there, the filthy remains of his equally filthy feet in the sink and water flung everywhere over toilet seat and floor, and an incredibly resilient, lingering, underarm odeur hanging about that could outlast the “morn.

    The manner in which he “spoke”, what’s more, literally made me ill at stomach on a couple of occasions in meetings. He was a near-idiot and unable to string a few simple thoughts together in the form of a decent question or greeting.

    In short, he was the worst sort of type in this foul, unholy place – a used car salesman, a religious con-artist, a farce of a teacher. Oftentimes, his classes numbered more sleeping students than those who were awake. I remember his face.
    I don’t remember his name.

    3-07-10 Riyadh

  68. says

    @ traeh

    then don’t make comments like “islam is watered down in china”, when i cited examples of muslims in THAILAND and taiwan.

    Everthing in my posts refers to pre communist China. I never said a single example of people or ideology practiced under communist rule.