Poll: Over half of Egypt wants to end the peace with Israel

I tried to tell you. “Poll: Over half of Egypt wants end to Israel peace,” by Paul Schemm for AP, April 25 (thanks to Nichole):

CAIRO (AP) – More than half of all Egyptians would like to see the 1979 peace treaty with Israel annulled, according to results of a poll conducted by the U.S.-based Pew Research Center released Monday.

The poll highlights the deep unpopularity of the three-decade-old treaty, which is central to U.S. policy in the region and was scrupulously adhered to by former President Hosni Mubarak, until his Feb. 11 ouster….

According to the poll results, only 36 percent of Egyptians are in favor of maintaining the treaty, compared with 54 percent who would like to see it scrapped….

Opinions varied according to income, with 60 percent of lower income Egyptians supporting the treaty’s cancellation while only 45 percent of the wealthier classes thinking it should be done away with.

Only 40 percent of Egyptians with a college education felt the treaty should be scrapped, as well….

AP clearly wants you to think that Islamic antisemitism is restricted to the poor and ignorant. If only it were so.

Egypt responds to Muslim protests and riots over Christian governor by suspending him for 3 months
Egypt: Pro-Israel blogger gets three years in prison
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Comments

  1. says

    OK, so we now have poll results….

    But if all our brilliant reporters and correspondents would think to ask some of these same questions of all the crowds jumping and yelling “democracy”, TV viewers might stand a chance of not being herded into the prevailing “humanitarian ” rationales for U.S. involvement.

    We should demand of our reporters to ask the hard questions of all the “freedom fighters” they encounter:

    do they want peace with their neighbors and Israel?
    will they swear to guarantee equal rights to women and minorities?
    do they condemn the massacres of Christians throughout the kingdom of Islam?
    do they renounce the barbaric passages of the Quran
    etc etc etc

    and if they don’t, why not?

    I doubt that even the best “dissimulators” among them would want to go on record against such precepts of their cult…

  2. says

    This cannot be, because some of the most prominent politicians in Denmark have told us that any animosity towards Israel is rhetoric only and nothing will change in the official attitude and obligations of Egypt, no matter who win the coming election.

    On the surface they seem to accept the general opinion that no Arab politician with hopes of any future can do without spewing anti-zionism, but I am not quite sure that is what they meant. It’s more the “free democratic elections mean that all will be well” naivety.

  3. says

    “Fearmonering”

    -Juan Williams

    Is there any analysis of what should we had done in Iran to help the policy makers know what to do in Egypt 2011?

  4. says

    The numbers must be wrong! The poll is flawed! Hateful Zionists made the whole story up! The translation of the results and even the question is wrong!

    Islam is a religion of peace. Say that with me… Islam… is a… religion… of …peace.

  5. says

    The numbers are out of context! The poll is flawed! Hateful Zionists made the whole story up! The translation of the results and even the question is wrong!

    Islam is a religion of peace. Say that with me… Islam… is a… religion… of… peace.

  6. says

    The numbers are out of context! The poll is flawed! Hateful Zionists made the whole story up! The translation of the results and even the question is wrong!

    Islam is a religion of peace. Say that with me… Islam… is a… religion… of… peace.

  7. says

    Maybe we should remember that the fact that Mubarak sold Egyptian gas to Israel at below market prices….. it’s hardly going to endear Israel to the ordinary Egyptians, is it? Just a thought.

    Feelings are running high in Egypt at the moment, and the Muslim Brotherhood are past masters at using the hair trigger response of Muslims, and their tendency to kill first and ask questions later, to their advantage. Just listen to the cries of “Allah hu akbar”, it should tell you all you need to know. They’re not shouting “Egypt, Egypt” are they? Remember also, their treatment of Christians recently.

    Steffen Larsen Denmark is in the midst of trying to stem the tide of Islamism, isn’t it? No country in Europe is doing a great job.

    Adrian – the crowds are shouting “democracy” and they have never had a democratic country in their lifetimes. Would they know how to operate a democracy? No. Looking to Europe for guidance won’t be an option, soon, if we’re honest. The EU operates an autocracy in the guise of democracy. It bends itself out of shape to pander to Muslim extremists’ needs. Egyptians should be very careful what they wish for.

  8. says

    From the recent (PEW) poll mentioned in the article, which assessed the views of “Egyptians” (general population, sample size = 1000, face-face interviews), there was this question:

    “Which of the following three statements comes closer to your view?”
    62% believe “Laws should strictly follow the teachings of the Quran”
    27% believe “Laws should follow the values and principles of Islam but not strictly follow the teachings of the Quran”
    5% believe “Laws should not be influenced by the teachings of the Quran”
    5% don’t know/refused
    —————————

    Egypt’s population has about 90% Muslims. Note that, due to the fact that the study sampled the general population of Egyptians, then some Christians and other non-Muslims would also have been picked up in the sample. I would speculate that almost all of the 5% who didn’t want the laws to be influenced by the Quran would be Christians. About 10% of Egyptians are Christians (CIA Factbook). The rest of these Christians–if the PEW sample did indeed contain 10% Christians–would probably have refused to respond to the question or responded “don’t know”. A very small percent, whom I will call Islamo-Christians, might have responded that the Quran should have some influence, but not be strictly followed. Clearly, support for laws strictly following the Quran would be higher if the sample analyzed only included Muslims.

    Note also that those Muslims who answered that the laws should follow the values and principles of Islam (but not strictly the teachings of the Quran) may be of at least two major types that I can think of at the moment. (1). Some may indeed support strict sharia, and their understanding of this question is that sharia does not follow the Quran alone but also follows the Sunnah and other Islamic legal and theological considerations. For example, as an earlier poll showed, about 82% of Egyptian Muslims believe adulterers should be stoned to death. But stoning to death for adultery is ordered explicitly in the Hadith, not in the Quran. Thus, these Muslims may believe the Quran alone is not strict enough. (2). The other Muslims giving this response may be “moderates” who do not literally support the Quran’s specific punishments in this day and age, but nevertheless have a favorable view of “Islamic” values and principles.

    Here’s the the link to the full report of the poll at PEW:

    http://pewglobal.org/files/2011/04/Pew-Global-Attitudes-Egypt-Report-FINAL-April-25-2011.pdf

  9. says

    I got into an email discussion (disagreement) with Mideast scholar Martin S. Kramer a few years back. Kramer “is an American scholar of the Middle East at the Washington Institute for Near East Policy and the Shalem Center.” Kramer is (or was then) a solid supporter of the Camp David Accords, whereby Jimmy Carter coaxed Menachem Begin to give the strategic Sinai over to Egypt; a land mass from which Egypt repeatedly attacked Israel in the several wars of annihilation. There are great men – whom we call Zionists – that are advocates of surrender and retreat. These are the things that ‘separate the men from the boys’.

  10. says

    I think there is confusion between the peace treaty and normalization with Israel. If the question was asked would Egyptians want to go to war with Israel to liberate the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Hieghts, the answer would be no.

    Iran of course would love such a scenario and it is no secret it finances the Muslim Brotherhood. But the Muslim Brotherhood said they will not nominate a “Brother” to the presidency; and according to the constitution the president still has incredible powers.

    The Egyptian revolution was secular against corruption and the looting of Egypt. It took the Muslim Brotherhood and the Islamists by surprise that they had to rearrange their strategies.

  11. says

    “Poll: Over half of Egypt wants end to Israel peace,”

    Do they also want to end economic assistance from and peace with the U.S.?

    If not then it is just the usual Arab bragging. Show them pictures of the thousands of boots left by fleeing Egyptian soldiers after IDF put the fear of God into their heads and feet.

    Considering the massive Jew-hating propaganda, blood libels and demonetization of Israel poured out of Egyptian mass-media for decades the peace-segment is higher than I expected. The Muslim Brotherhood must be near desperation. 😉

    The glass is not half empty but half full!

  12. says

    “Poll: Over half of Egypt wants end to Israel peace,”

    Do they also want to end economic assistance from and peace with the U.S.?

    If not then it is just the usual Arab bragging. Show them pictures of the thousands of boots left by fleeing Egyptian soldiers after IDF put the fear of God into their heads and feet.

    Considering the massive Jew-hating propaganda, blood libels and demonetization of Israel poured out of Egyptian mass-media for decades the peace-segment is higher than I expected. The Muslim Brotherhood must be near desperation. 😉

    The glass is not half empty but half full!

  13. says

    “Fearmongering.”Is it fearmongering when Egypt is ruled
    by a military junta,a modern,huge military,at that, coupled with a profested hatred of their neighbor,Israel?

    Jews survive BECAUSE RECOGNIZING AN ENEMY WITH EVIL INTENTIONS IS A G-d GIVEN BLESSING IN THE FORM OF RATIONAL THOUGHT.

    PS And,who do the Egyptians think constructed and helped finance the gas supply? ISRAEL! Egyptians always manage to shoot themselves in the foot.

  14. says

    Muslims are not going to give up Islam and the diktats of Quran just because they are becoming “democratic”. As per Quran they have to hate all Jews and infidels and as such how can they have any peace treaty with Israel?? It is as simple as that and I am not surprised that over half the Egyptians want to end peace treaty with Israel!!! Even in Mo/allah’s time, he made treaties for ten years and then broke them on any pretext whenever he was strong and ready to kill infidels. Never evr trust a Muslim – he will stab you in the back when the “right” time comes.

  15. says

    Muslims are not going to give up Islam and the diktats of Quran just because they are becoming “democratic”. As per Quran they have to hate all Jews and infidels and as such how can they have any peace treaty with Israel?? It is as simple as that and I am not surprised that over half the Egyptians want to end peace treaty with Israel!!! Even in Mo/allah’s time, he made treaties for ten years and then broke them on any pretext whenever he was strong and ready to kill infidels. Never evr trust a Muslim – he will stab you in the back when the “right” time comes.

  16. says

    Just shows that the unlamented Mubarak regime worked for 30 years to maintain the most grudging, coldest “peace” in recent history. While he formally maintained a “no war” policy with Israel, he also funded extremist Islamists, allowed and encouraged the (state-controlled) Egyptian media to peddle every sort of pernicious anti-Semitic hate, and made NO gestures, in 30 years, even vaguely suggesting comity or cooperation with Israel. And we’re supposed to fear what comes after him? Even a regime headed by Zawahiri would not be worse; at least Israel would know that it was now no-holds-barred, and all the phony “peace” of the previous decades was a sham.

  17. says

    Opinions varied according to income, with 60 percent of lower income Egyptians supporting the treaty’s cancellation while only 45 percent of the wealthier classes thinking it should be done away with.

    Only 40 percent of Egyptians with a college education felt the treaty should be scrapped, as well….

    AP clearly wants you to think that Islamic antisemitism is restricted to the poor and ignorant. If only it were so.
    …………………………..

    No, it’s not true. 40%-45% of wealthy and well-educated Egyptians wanting to scrap the peace treaty Israel is appalling”albeit hardly shocking.

    And even if it were true, what would that mean, in practical terms?

    While Egypt”unlike some Muslim countries”actually does have and educated elite and even a small middle class, the average annual income is US $1530. In contrast, Cairenes are relatively wealthy with a median income of US $19,200. But around 44% of the population live on less than $2/a day.

    If Egypt’s “democracy” turns out to be”as is likely, assuming it is to be a “democracy” at all”nothing more than mob rule with a gloss of legitimacy at the polls, then Israel is in trouble.

    A polity that would vote to launch an unprovoked attack on its neighbor is not a democracy as it is understood in the West, but ti’s questionable as to how many in the West really grasp this.

    The trope that “democracies don’t go to war with each other” only applies to full democracies with checks and balances on power and guaranteed minority rights. It is unlikely that that Egypt will ever be that kind of full democracy.

  18. says

    I much suspect Caliph Hussein Obama is jiggling with triumphant joy over such evil! When I think of the ever threatened Israel and Jews, since ancient times until today, fundamentally standing alone bravely and with so much dignity amidst the barbarian Nazi-like Arab-led Muslims, who still want to mass murder the Jews since the creation of Islam by the Arabic Pedophile rapist Mohammed, it’s amazing of such bravery and preserverence of the Jews. The mass exodus now from Europe especially from the vile Socialist left controlled Scandinavian countries, makes you wonder why such evilness and betrayal are allowed from the West especially after the savage Jewish Holocaust by the God-hating but Islam-loving Socialist Hitler/Nazis. See – http://www.islamist-watch.org/blog/2011/01/the-slow-motion-exodus-of-european-jews

    The Slow-Motion Exodus of European Jews
    by David J. Rusin • Jan 7, 2011

    Do Jews have a future in an increasingly Muslim Europe? Often explored by Daniel Pipes, this question recently drew a disconcerting answer from prominent Dutch politician Frits Bolkestein, who opined on the grim choices facing visible (e.g., Orthodox) Jews in his nation: The former EU commissioner says there is no future for this group in the Netherlands because of “the anti-Semitism among Dutchmen of Moroccan descent, whose numbers keep growing.”….Next consider Sweden. Last month, the Simon Wiesenthal Center urged traveling Jews to exercise “extreme caution” due to “harassment of Jewish citizens in the southern city of Malmö.” An estimated 60,000 Muslims comprise a fifth of Malmö’s population and hate crimes regularly impact the lives of its 700 remaining Jews. “The city’s synagogue has guards and rocket-proof glass in the windows,” the Telegraph notes, “while the Jewish kindergarten can only be reached through thick steel security doors.” With the government’s response a mix of denial and blaming the victim, many Jews are leaving Malmö ” and even Sweden altogether……

  19. says

    Egyptians back sharia law, end of Israel treaty, poll shows

    A majority of Egyptians wants the country’s peace treaty with Israel to be annulled and says its laws should “strictly” follow the teachings of the Koran, a survey by Pew Research Center’s Global Attitudes Project found.

    Fifty-four percent of 1,000 Egyptians surveyed want the government to end the peace treaty with the Jewish state, Pew said in an emailed statement. About 60 percent of those surveyed said “laws should strictly follow the teachings” of Islam’s holy book.

    […]

    The Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt’s biggest opposition group during Mubarak’s three-decade rule, repeatedly criticized the former president for maintaining what it saw as close ties with Israel.

    Seventy-five percent of Egyptians surveyed had a favourable view of the Islamist group, though only 17 percent said the Brotherhood should lead the next government, the survey found. It said the margin of error for the poll is four percentage points.

    Of the politicians who have announced plans to run for president, Arab League Secretary-General and former Foreign Minister Amre Moussa came out top with a “very favourable” rating of 41 percent.

    Mohamed ElBaradei, the former director of the United Nations nuclear agency had a 25 percent rating, with Ayman Nour, a lawyer who came a distant second to Mubarak in the 2005 elections, on 32 percent, the poll found.
    http://www.arabianbusiness.com/egyptians-back-sharia-law-end-of-israel-treaty-poll-shows-396178.html

  20. says

    OT: Just heard a caller on R. Limbaugh’s program pimping ground zero mosque-supporter, Governor Chris Christie, to Limbaugh’s cheers. “Chris Christie needs to join fray for president, 2012. Limbaugh: “Yes! Yes!” This is the same Limbaugh who supported the Dubai Port takeover deal.

  21. says

    AP’s claim that Mubarak “scrupulously adhered” to the Camp David treaty is utter nonsense. The treaty was supposed to result in “normalization”, which is to say it was supposed to put an end to anti-Israel and antisemitic propaganda in Egypt and to open a new era of amiable relations between the two neighboring countries.

    That Egypt merely refrained from attacking Israel yet again, is a result of Israeli deterrence, pure and simple. Such “cold peace” does not warrant the gift of the Sinai, and the tens of billions of dollars in U.S. economic and military aid to Egypt since ’79.

  22. says

    If your going 2 Cairo-Egypt;Bsure 2 ware some flowers in your hair;
    4 those who travel 2 Cairo Egypt; there’s going to B some magic in the air.
    All across the nation, such a strange vibration,
    “people in motion” -“people in motion”, 4 those who travel to Cairo Egypt, there’s going to B some magic in the air.
    yeah, death!
    more QKuranic death.

  23. says

    Amro, you will never convert me. I have my own beliefs. I can live with you in peaceful disagreement. I do live with you in peace.

    But I see every day many millions of Muslims who live and die and kill according to the verses of the sword. They don’t agree with your Islam.

    You don’t need to preach peace to me. Go preach to those Muslims, the ones I have to fight. But I think if you do they will cut off your head for being a heretic. I have seen them do many such murders.

  24. says

    What does “normalization” mean for Israel vis-a-vis Egypt? Some Arab countries (Saudi Arabia for example) say if Israel retreats to the indefensible 1949 armistice lines (what Abba Eban called the “Auschwitz borders”), they will “normalize” relations with Israel. If what you say is true – Egyptians would not want to go to war with Israel to liberate the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan Heights – what did Israel get at Camp David that they would not have had by keeping the Sinai?

  25. says

    I marvel at your desperation and twisted mindset in defending this perverted pedophile monster, muhammad …

    and you are one demented creep, yourself.

    Be gone, creep …and take your twisted islam with you. Good riddance to bad rubbish. And hell cannot burn hot enough for you and your ilk. Hey consider yourself warned …

  26. says

    Kinana of Khaybar wrote:

    From the recent (PEW) poll mentioned in the article…
    ……………………..

    Excellent”and very disturbing”analysis of the PEW poll results, Kinana.

  27. says

    This is the same Limbaugh who supported the Dubai Port takeover deal.

    To savor a truly depressive moment, look at the tape of Hannity’s wholly ineffectual interview of Rep Keith Ellison D-MN from the other night.

  28. says

    Ole Hartling, if you think you know God, think again.

    http://www.domainofman.com/ankhemmaat/intro.html
    The United Kingdom of David and Solomon

    David and Solomon are portrayed in the Bible as two of the greatest kings of the ancient world. However, no trace of their empire has ever been found in Palestine. It is a period curiously missing from the archaeological record of the region. Quoting from the book, Archaeology of the Land of the Bible, “The Bible is the only written source concerning the United Monarchy, and it is therefore the basis of any historical presentation of the period.”(1) There is such a complete void of external sources that the archaeologist, author and leading authority on the era, Donald Redford, writes in frustration that “such topics as the foreign policy of David and Solomon, Solomon’s trade in horses or his marriage to Pharaoh’s daughter must remain themes for midrash and fictional treatment.”(2)

    http://domainofman.com/ankhemmaat/integrat.html
    David & Solomon
    According to Donald Redford in his landmark book, Egypt, Canaan, and Israel in Ancient Times, “Solomon has assumed the guise of the ‘Sesostris of Israel.(1)'” (The story of the “semi-legendary” King Sesostris originated about the sixth century B.C. as a composite of the two great historical Pharaohs of Egypt, Thutmose III and Ramses II.) The research of Ahmed Osman points to Amenhotep III as being the main source of our “Sesostris of Israel.”

    http://www.ahmedosman.com/links.html

  29. says

    katharina, Aisha was the daughter of the first Caliph and it is said that she lead an army against Ali the fourth Caliph and the first cousin of Mohamad. By marrying Mohammad she gets the title Mother of the Believer. She might have not married Mohamad at all; but if she did it would be as verse 4:6 says when she is mature. If you are a non-believer then Mohammad “said” the Quran, right? Verse 4:6 in the Quran talks about the age of marraige, which is the age of the orphan recieving his or her inheritance after being tested for maturity. That is the age of marraige in the Quran. You are relying on a narration (hereasy) written down in Bagdad 300 yrs after Mohamad had died.

  30. says

    I found only a part of the interview here:

    http://www.foxnews.com/on-air/hannity/transcript/hannity-rep-ellison-go-one-one-over-muslim-american-congressmans-fox-news-comments

    Do you have a link to the entire interview? Where did you think Hannity fell short? My problem is this use of the term “radical” Islam that Hannity thinks “perverts” true Islam. These were the Bush talking points.

    I notice Ellison called bin Laden a criminal who should be arrested and prosecuted for killing innocent Americans on 9/11. How should Hannity have responded to that statement?

  31. says

    Muhammad was a widower in his fifties when he reported married Aisha, who was then six years old. Is that mature in your view?

  32. says

    Hey amro, get a grip and face the truths on your beloved savage Arabic Pedophile rapist Mohammed – here, educate yourself with the truths by these scholars, who BRAVELY left Islam after knowing the truths about Islam and Mohammed’s evilness! See – http://islam-watch.org/AbulKasem/SexInIslam/sex_and_sexuality_in_islam4.htm

    Sex and Sexuality in Islam, Part 4

    by Abul Kasem

    20 Nov, 2005
    Child marriage and having sex with a minor

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 5, Book 58, Number 236:

    Narrated Hisham’s father:
    Khadija died three years before the Prophet departed to Medina. He stayed there for two years or so and then he married ‘Aisha when she was a girl of six years of age, and he consumed that marriage when she was nine years old.

    Here is how the Prophet used to have fun and sex with his child bride.

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 1, Book 6, Number 298:

    Narrated ‘Aisha:

    The Prophet and I used to take a bath from a single pot while we were Junub. During the menses, he used to order me to put on an Izar (dress worn below the waist) and used to fondle me. While in Itikaf, he used to bring his head near me and I would wash it while I used to be in my periods (menses).

    Sahih Muslim Book 3, Number 0629:

    ‘A’isha reported: I and the Messenger (may peace be upon him) took a bath from the same vessel and our hands alternated into it in the state that we had had sexual intercourse.

    Can we ever imagine how an over fifty years old man could fondle his pre-teen wife during her menstrual cycle! By the way, the meaning of Junub is sexual defilement, that is, the state after having sex…….

  33. says

    Amro wrote:

    Aisha was the daughter of the first Caliph and it is said that she lead an army against Ali the fourth Caliph and the first cousin of Mohamad. By marrying Mohammad she gets the title Mother of the Believer….You are relying on a narration (hereasy) written down in Bagdad 300 yrs after Mohamad had died.
    …………………………….

    Firstly, the Qu’ran is an appalling and violent book all by itself. Preaching “Qu’ran only” Islam doesn’t really solve the problem of that baleful creed.

    Secondly, though, few Muslims agree with you. There are scrupulous “Isnad Chains” meant to determine the authenticity of Hadith”Bukhari and Muslim, especially, are considered “Sahih”, or reliable.

    I really don’t care, personally, whether these Hadith are historically accurate or not”what matters is that most Muslim consider them not only authentic, but to present a model of conduct ion the actions of the “Prophet” Muhammed.

    Child marriage takes place all over the Muslim world, and it takes place in the name of Muhammed himself. One of the Ayatollahs first acts on gaining power in Iran was to lower the marriage age for girls to nine. Attempts to raise the age of marriage in places as diverse as Yemen and Malaysia have resulted in protests by Imams claiming that banning forced child marriage is un-Islamic.

    So”if you doubt that Aisha was forced into marriage as a six-year-old girl, and into intercourse as a nine-year-old child, then take it up with your vile coreligionists, not with the decent Infidels at Jihad Watch.

  34. says

    The further we go back in the Biblical record, it becomes increasing difficult to substantiate the existence of these great men and women by means of the archaeological record. I think you are mistaken. I believe there are extra-Biblical references to King David, though there is some dispute amongst scholars as to their exact attribution. Another difficulty is that the Israelis saw fit to give the Temple Mount over to Islamic waqf – following the 1967 Six Day war. The waqf has feverishly sought to erase any and all evidence of David and Solomon’s reign. The waqf forbids Israeli scholars to do any digging or archaeological research on or near the mount, much to the chagrin of right-leaning Jews. I do not think there is any question, Islam believes David and Solomon were amongst Israel’s ancient patriarchs. David and his son were Jews however. They were not Muslims and therein lies the rub. I wonder where devout Muslims believe; over what people and land these two leaders govern? What great people did Moses lead and teach? Prior to the creation of a Palestinian people with a Palestinian narrative, Arab leaders in the region acknowledged David’s kingdom in Jerusalem and his son Solomon’s Temple on the mount called by David’s name in Zion.

  35. says

    “Ole Hartling, if you think you know God, think again.”

    As an agnostic I don’t think I know God. Many other people do however think they know God, some even fear God, but seem to disagree about what is the will of God. That’s the problem with monotheism. It only leaves room for one true God, so three different gods is two too many. And then you have a bloody conflict between different groups of believers. The problem seems to be that there is no objective criteria from which to define God, so you just follow the tradition or make a god in your own image to satisfy your own needs and fantasies.

    That last method surely worked well for the Christians. With more than 32,000 officially recognized sects who can say who the heretics are or what the Christian God is? If God is good, then I think everybody should have one they can believe in. What can be more democratic in this day and age? 😉

  36. says

    “Be gone, creep …and take your twisted islam with you.”

    Champ, I like to post on leftist websites. More often than not the subject turns (or is) Islam, Israel, the Middle East, etc. I was posting on a leftist website called Alternet a few weeks back when a member wrote something similar to what you wrote. He called me a racist and a bigot and he told me to “get lost.” The next thing I knew Alternet said I could no longer post on their website. Maybe the guy complained to the management. The guy admitted I was reasonable and polite, yet he hated what I was posting. I don’t know how people can learn from one another unless we are willing to debate the issues. Perhaps I am wrong?

  37. says

    champ, too verses from the Quran:

    “And the Servants of the Merciful who walk softley on earth and if the ignorant speak to them they say: Peace.”
    Quran 25:63

    “The rejecters instilled in their hearts pride and rage, the pride and rage of the ignorance; and God bestowed His tranquility upon his messenger and the believers and bound them with the word of piety; and they were more entitled and worthy of it..” Quran 48:26

  38. says

    katharina, I quoted you the Quran verse 4:6 and you quoted junk written 300 yrs in Bagdad after Mohammad had died. I see Islam, which means surrendering peacefully to God, as the Quran, and the Quran as Islam. If you have something to quote from the Quran then I can engage with you. Otherwise, you can quote Hadith from now till tommorow it won’t do.

  39. says

    The unholy qur’an is nothing more than an evil manual-4-murder, so you can flush that crap down the toilet for all I care …

    Those unGodly words have zero meaning for me.

  40. says

    Even the qur’an refers to allah as a trickster and a deceiver …so the truth about your evil god is right there in BOLD print! Hey you would have to be a complete moron to choose a god like that, lol …

    But Jesus is the One true God! …and Jesus lived a sinless and holy life who became the sacrificial lamb for our sins – unlike muhammad, whose life was filled with deceit and violence offering NO redemption – only death and hell. Hey it’s painfully obvious which prophet people should wisely choose and follow after.

    Yeah it appears that you have chosen UNWISELY …

  41. says

    Yes, I saw that piece earlier. I’m not sure what Trifkovic has to do with this issue. I notice Amro replies to you and others. He’s yet to reply to me, a Jew. I don’t hold any illusions about Amro and his beliefs. It’s simply that I can learn from these people if given the opportunity. That was my point. Maybe you can explain the difficulty with Trifkovic. I do not know what his position is vis-a-vis Israel. As you may know, Israel is a litmus test of sorts for me. R. Spencer describes Trifkovic as a Paleocon. Paleocons (some) like Patrick Buchanan and other like-minded Paleocons have a penchant for bashing Israel and the Jews for some strange reason. Perhaps you followed my discussion with Mr. Spencer ealier over Archbishop Cyril Bustros? Maybe Bustros is also considered an anti-Jihadist. He is also an anti-Semite in my opinion. There is no unity between me and Jew-haters. Would you council that I ally with anti-Semites? I cannot ally with anti-Semites like Archbishop Bustros. Also mentioned in the piece you linked to, is Gainesville, Fla. Pastor Terry Jones. I defend Jones’ right to speech and protest so long as it is peaceful (non-violent) speech and protest. Jones is instructive in terms of the lengths authorities, judges, etc., will go, in order submit to Muslim demands, intimidation and threats of violence. That having been said, in Jones’ litany of non-Muslims persecuted and murdered by Muslims, I’ve not read or heard him mention the Jews or Israel. Have you? There is an on-line (YouTube)video of Pastor Jones repeatedly using the “n” word. I cannot ally with racists and anti-Semites, even if they are anti-Jihadists. Can you?

  42. says

    “Discord among counter-jihadists: a call for unity” — by Robert Spencer

    +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    I wrote “ally.” It is the same thing as “unity.” There is no unity for me with people who hate God, even if they are anti-Jihadists. People who hate Israel and the Jews, hate God. As a Christian yourself, where is the unity with anti-Jihadists that hate God?

  43. says

    “Maybe you can explain the difficulty with Trifkovic.”

    Trifkovic was not the main point I was attempting to make with you, but I can certainly see why you’ve arrived at that conclusion. Instead, I was simply trying to steer you in a different direction other than your taking my inventory. You certainly didn’t attack me, so please don’t misunderstand me there; but in taking my inventory and questioning my commenting style, you were stepping into the zone of “friendly fire” that Robert has asked us not to engage in. Again, I did not mention Robert’s admonition against friendly fire so that I could inject Trifkovic into our discussion – but instead, to change the direction of our conversation. Sorry that I didn’t make myself very clear …

    “There is no unity for me with people who hate God, even if they are anti-Jihadists.”

    Nor I – but the rules of engagment here on JW still stand. Robert has asked us to unite on his forum. Make sense?

    “People who hate Israel and the Jews, hate God.”

    I thoroughly agree.

    “As a Christian yourself, where is the unity with anti-Jihadists that hate God?”

    That takes some effort, but it is certainly achievable. There are many posting comments here that are within the counter-jihad movement that come from different faith backgrounds – or none at all – but basically those within this movement all want the same thing: to preserve our freedoms.

  44. says

    PS …

    Unity and showing a united front are two differnt things. I think that Robert means the latter, if that helps …

  45. says

    I wrote: “As a Christian yourself, where is the unity with anti-Jihadists that hate God?”

    That takes some effort, but it is certainly achievable. There are many posting comments here that are within the counter-jihad movement that come from different faith backgrounds – or none at all – but basically those within this movement all want the same thing: to preserve our freedoms.

    ___________________________________________________________

    I guess what I am saying is this. Jihadists and jihadist-sympathizers, so long as they are “reasonable and polite,” I am going to engage them. Maybe I am wrong. If so, I stand corrected.

    I can respect different faith backgrounds, especially Christians who support Israel. I cannot however unite with anti-Semites even if they are anti-Jihadists who want to preserve our freedoms; because in the final analysis, anti-Semites and those who hate Israel will lose their freedoms. There were Christians in Europe and America who averted their gaze while the Nazis persecuted the Jews throughout the nineteen thirties. Maybe you’ve read Pastor Martin Niemöller’s, “Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew….”

    In the end as the Nazi monster grew, we all came near to losing our freedoms. Shall we repeat this mistake?

  46. says

    Champ what is a united front with those who hate Israel and the Jews?

    Quoting Trifkovic from an earlier Jihadwatch piece:

    “….In addition, since the late 1800’s the Jews have had a disproportionate impact on a host of intellectual trends and political movements which have fundamentally altered the civilization of Europe and its overseas offspring in a manner deeply detrimental to the family, nation, culture, racial solidarity, social coherence, tradition, morality and faith.”

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/02/srdja-trifkovic-author-of-sword-of-the-prophet-barred-from-canada.html

    Sounds like he has problems with Jews, doesn’t it? Shall I maintain a “united front” with this man?

  47. says

    Hey amro, you’re ORDERING me how to debate with you – and you’re trying to make me read such evil Satanic books like the koran – get civilized! So you regard the description by your own famous Muslim scholars and imams about your beloved Arabic Pedophile rapist, robber, slave-owner (including sexual slaves such as young Jewish captive girls), and mass murderer of the Jews, Mohammed, as irrelevant? And why do you refuse to face the truths on how Mohammed raped savagely a nine year old girl Aisha as his ‘wife’ when he was 53 year old (obviously a dirty old Pedophile sociopath)? Obviously, the evil and savage koran by such barbarian Mohammed, must be from the god who is clearly the Devil!

  48. says

    “I guess what I am saying is this. Jihadists and jihadist-sympathizers, so long as they are “reasonable and polite,” I am going to engage them. Maybe I am wrong. If so, I stand corrected.”

    No, I would never say that you are wrong; as I see it, you have your approach with jihadists on this forum, and I have mine …

    “I can respect different faith backgrounds, especially Christians who support Israel. I cannot however unite with anti-Semites even if they are anti-Jihadists who want to preserve our freedoms” …

    In all fairness to Robert’s call for unity, I don’t think that even he would expect us to make-nice with THAT unsavory and wrongheaded crowd. In fact, it could be argued that the aforementioned are NOT within the counter-jihad movement to begin with AT ALL, but instead support jihad – perhaps unintentionally, or blindly – and deserve to be taken to task.

    …”because in the final analysis, anti-Semites and those who hate Israel will lose their freedoms.”

    Hear, hear!

    “There were Christians in Europe and America who averted their gaze while the Nazis persecuted the Jews throughout the nineteen thirties. Maybe you’ve read Pastor Martin Niemöller’s, “Then they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew….”

    No, I am sorry to say, but it sounds like a must read …

    “In the end as the Nazi monster grew, we all came near to losing our freedoms. Shall we repeat this mistake?”

    No, NEVER!!!

  49. says

    “Sounds like he has problems with Jews, doesn’t it? Shall I maintain a “united front” with this man?”

    No, of course not …

    Again, only those cleary within the counter-jihad movement are those that Robert has asked us to maintain a united front with; and it’s quite obvious that this guy does NOT fall into that category. Come on, wildjew, why are you bickering with me? I think we agree more on this issue than you realize, and I don’t have an ax to grind …

    Or maybe you’re just thinking out loud, I don’t know …in which case, I won’t take it personally.

  50. says

    “You don’t need to preach peace to me. Go preach to those Muslims, the ones I have to fight. But I think if you do they will cut off your head for being a heretic. I have seen them do many such murders….”

    **************************************************************

    Amro will not engage me. Nor will he answer any of my questions. My guess is, Amro preaches peace to you, while at the same time he urges his brothers to cut off the heads of Wildjew and Elderly Zionist.