U.S. Attorney: "There is so much ignorance and fear surrounding the Islamic religion"

Indeed there is. There is a great deal of ignorance about the ways in which Islamic jihadists use the texts and teachings of Islam to justify violence and supremacism, and to make recruits among peaceful Muslims. There is a great deal of fear about innocent Muslims being victimized in the U.S., when in fact many "anti-Muslim hate crimes" have been faked by Muslims, and Jews are eight times more likely than Muslims to be the victims of hate attacks. But of course that is not what Barbara McQuade meant.

"At Dearborn forum, law enforcement leaders say all faiths must be protected," by Niraj Warikoo in the Detroit Free Press, April 12:

Speaking at a forum in Dearborn, the U.S. Attorney for eastern Michigan said that Muslims and Islam should not be stereotyped.

"Blaming all Muslims and Arabs for the acts of the hijackers of 9/11 is like blaming all Catholics for the acts of Timothy McVeigh in Oklahoma City," U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade said Monday, referring to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks and the 1995 bombing of a federal building.

In the first place, no one is really "blaming all Muslims and Arabs" for 9/11. That is just a straw man. But there is also no equivalence between calling the Muslim community to account for jihad activity in its midst and blaming Catholics for the Oklahoma City bombing. Jihadists justify acts of violence by referring to the Qur'an and Muhammad; McVeigh did not justify the Oklahoma City bombing by referring to Catholic teaching. He wasn't even a Catholic at the time, in fact.

"There is so much ignorance and fear surrounding the Islamic religion. And so we've been trying ... to educate the public and to make sure that our Muslim and Arab residents here have the full protection of the law. And we are very strongly committed to doing that."

McQuade was one of several law enforcement officials and community advocates who spoke at the forum, which was sponsored by student groups at the University of Michigan-Dearborn and titled Know Your Rights. Also speaking were Andrew Arena, special agent in charge of the FBI Detroit office, and Brian Moskowitz, special agent in charge of ICE/HSI, which deals with immigration investigations with the Department of Homeland Security.

Imad Hamad, regional director for the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, said at the forum that "it seems like our civil rights and liberties have been put on trial" in recent years.

In a sane world, Hamad would be anxious to demonstrate his community's loyalty to the United States, as German-Americans and Japanese-Americans were anxious to do during World War II. Instead, Hamad plays the same old tired victim card that we always see from Islamic supremacists. It is too bad that neither Arena nor Moskowitz apparently had the guts to answer his whining with a firm call to back up his victimhood posturing with genuine and wholehearted cooperation with law enforcement.

Arena said that FBI agents are sworn to protect and defend the U.S. Constitution.

"I'm not allowed to have informants in mosques unless I have predication something bad is going on," Arena said. "If your imam ... preaches the true faith, we have no right to be there, and we're not. If we are, I'm going to lose my job and somebody (from law enforcement) is going to jail."

How did the Imam Arena determine what is the "true faith" of Islam? How does he deal with the fact that the jihadists present themselves among Muslims as the exponents of the "true faith"?

But if a religious leader is supporting terrorism, the FBI has a responsibility to investigate, Arena said.

"If a Catholic priest stands up in my church and says give money to the Irish Republican Army, which is a designated terrorist organization, to kill British soldiers and drive them out of Northern Ireland, I have a right, duty, and responsibility to be in that church to investigate it," Arena said.

Indeed. One wonders, however, how Arena proposes to know before he investigates whether or not the local imam is preaching hate, violence and supremacism. One also wonders whether he knows that it is much more likely that any given imam is indeed preaching those things than that a Catholic priest is preaching that anyone should kill anyone else.

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I hope that the views expressed by the law enforcers are only the usual depressing pro forma BS. If not, then we are not getting through to them and that means we are in trouble. But muslims always shoot themselves in the foot by overstepping when given "understanding". A couple of successful terrorist attacks in North America and the cat is out of the bag never to return.
Islam a religion? By what criteria? Numbers! Give me a break! The tendency of large numbers of people to be wrong has been repeatedly demonstrated throughout history. Witness Holland's tulip mania. Witness Holland's muslim mania. Witness the result!
Islam deperately tries to avoid scrutiny and the light of day. They react as the devil does when faced with a priest holding a cross and a bottle of holy water.
We need a mania, a cur'an burning mania. People like to get in on manias especially if built around tail-gate parties. Once we party, we talk, and we win converts to the cause. My two cents.

The old McVeigh comparison. If I remember correctly, I do recall that in the run-up to the OK City bombing people distinctly saw and heard a man genuflect while shouting "In Jesus' name, amen." In the aftermath, the Pope and almost all of the catholics in Rome took to the streets in celebration.

While I expect this sort of stupid analogy from an educated liberal loon, I would have expected such from a judge. But I guess if the shoe fits...

What is disturbing about this is that it keeps open the door for people to continue with the McVeigh analogy and use it for different circumstances, such as whether a catholic church should be built near the federal building if plans are afoot to stop construction of a mosque near ground zero. I'm just waiting for the day a judge or someone in a position of power puts an end to this nonsense and points out that the analogy is the hallmark of someone who apparently did not score well on the SAT.

Amazing. To think a well educated jusge would stoop to using the McVeigh analogy is disheartening, at best. I expect the McVeigh analogy from the uneducated liberal loons who post most idiocy, I just did not expect it from a judge (are we sure she is competent to oversee a trial?).

But, come to think of it, I believe a do recall eye witnesses saying that prior to the bombing they saw someone genuflect while shouting "In Jesus' name, amen." And of course in the immediate aftermath, every catholic in Rome to the streets outside the Vatican in celebration.

The biggest problem in invoking the McVeigh defense is that it opens the door to other poor;y constructed analogies. such as the one stating if muslims aren't allowed to build a mosque near the site of 9/11 then Catholics should not be able to build a church near the
OK city federal building.

I'm convinced that liberals, as a whole, probably did rather poorly on the SAT. Or is that why they dropped the section on analogies...

What a bunch of sycophantic maroons.

Arena, why then, are you not at a meeting of Catholics concerned about their "civil rights"? Can you please provide the list of tattle-tales from the Catholic dens of horror who are coming to tell you about the recruiting for bombings, funding for "widows and orphans" (wink-wink)?

Seriously, even if you equate the jihad problem to the Church protecting pedophiles, do you see everyday Catholics wailing about the law and their civil rights? They're the first to complain to the poliece!! They're so horrified by the failure of faith in leadership that they leave the faith entirely.

Would that Muslims would become so disgusted by their Qur'an and Sunnah and Mohammad-approved violence and oppression that they would leave en masse.

You dhimmis should be ashamed of yourselves. You are completely unAmerican, and traitors for your lack of regard for U.S. Law.

There is much more to it than that.

U.S. Attorney Barbara McQuade is another one of these brave U.S. attorneys determined to shake down ‘Christian Militias’. One of her great successes was shaking down the Hutaree Christian militia accused of conspiring to overthrow the government, “people with dark hearts and evil intents”, as we all know.

Unfortunately for US attorney Barbara McQuade, the rat was a Muslim plant and the whole thing fizzled. But the tools from the enemedia made a big thing out of it:

“Stereotyping” Muslims? Not. Infiltration & Subversion in U.S. Law Enforcement

http://sheikyermami.com/2011/04/13/stereotyping-muslims-not-infiltration-subversion-in-u-s-law-enforcement/

us attorney is high!!!

Might the ideology have SOME influence?

What does the "true faith" instruct?

Do we know any recent incidents that might help us understand the root motivations of terrorists?

Please, let us remove this "ignorance and fear" through analysis and understanding.

What an A-hole Barbara McQuade is. From what I remember Timothy McVeigh was an atheist who stated that "Science is my religion", so watch out for people with bunsen burners.

This moral equivalence is sickening, I have never heard any libtard say "Let's not blame all atheists, because one of them shot President Kennedy."

or

"Let's not blame all atheists, because one of them got all those people to drink that cool-aid."

Mind you when atheists do indulge in terrorism they usually end up as tenured professors, like Obama's mate.

Yes indeed, its the same ship of fools and useful idiots that concocted the 'Hutaree Militia' story one year ago:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/04/spencer-media-dream-come-true-christian-groups-fighting-muslims.html

Does anyone have an email address for this clown, McQuade? I have only found a physical address and phone #.

She needs to read Robert's JW input on her idiocy and her politically "correct" wreckless endangerment to all of us. I intend to forward it to her, along with my own 2cents.

Please join me, in a letter-writing campaign. Thank you.

United States Attorney's Office
Eastern District of Michigan
211 West Fort Street
Suite 2001
Detroit, MI 48226-3269

Detroit: 313 -226-9151
TTY:1-313-226-9560

Why is everyone so surprised? She is an Obama appointee.

Here she is, people - uninformed ignorant idiot Barbara McQuade - a US attorney. Doesn't that make you feel just thrilled about our government attorneys?

http://www.justice.gov/usao/mie/meet_us_att/meetattorney.html

How did such an ignorant guy becomes a lawyer; who can't even raed on the history of Islam? Islam is an evil and savage Arabic cult,, as created by by the Arabic Pedophile rapist, robber, slave-owner (including sexual slaves such as young Jewish captive girls), and mass murderer of the Jews, Mohammed, in order to construct pure Arabian kingdom and legitimize his and his tribe’s evil Arabic socio-cultural practices- As a non-Arab ex Muslim, I detest such savage imperialism by the Arabs on non-Arab lands and peopel through thsiu evil cult, Islam, whose god is the Devil!

Judge McQuade, you had me at ignorant...

Oh yes, there is a miasma of fear and ignorance surrounding Islam.

For Islam thrives on fear, spreads fear, and *produces* ignorance amongst its thralls.

THE LIGHTS ARE GOING OUT:

Here's a very incomplete list of organizations or people self-censoring, or hiring bodyguards, or going into hiding, or taking other precautions, and sometimes getting killed or wounded after receiving death threats and violence from Muslims following the example of Muhammad, who said there would be no punishment for murdering someone who had insulted him.

Yale University Press (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

Metropolitan Museum of Art (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

National Archives of Canada (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

Director of the museum in the Hague, Wim van Krimpen(self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

State Senator Greg Ball;

2010 Tennessee candidate for Congress Lou Ann Zelenik;

Barrister Tom Zreika;

Murdered Japanese translator Hitoshi Igarashi's publishers, and Japanese bookstores;

Norwiegan translator William Nygaard (shot);

Italian translator Ettore Capriolo (knifed);

French singer Veronique Sanson (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

Artist Molly Norris (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats, changed name, went into hiding);

The producers of South Park (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

Journalist Lawrence O'Donnell (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

Cartoonist Lars Vilks (house firebombed);

Philosopher Robert Redeker (in hiding, under government protection);

Filmmaker Theo Van Gogh (murdered);

Author and former member of Dutch parliament Hirsi Ali (full-time bodyguards);

Author Salman Rushdie (in hiding, under UK govt. protection);

Danish newspaper Jyllands Posten (bodyguards hired);

And again Jyllands Posten (target of a planned terror attack by five jihadists planning to shoot as many people as possible);

Atheist Sabri Husibi;

Lyricist Javed Akhtar;

Cartoonist Kurt Westergaard almost killed by a Muslim with an axe;

Director of the film 2012; the comedian Penn Jillette; the British potter Grayson Perry (all three self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

Lawyer Majed Moughni;

Author Taslima Nasreen (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

Disc jockey/musician Jakub Rene Kosik (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

Coptic Orthodox priest Zakaria Botros (Al Qaeda bounty of $60 million on his head);

Pop star Deeyah (hires extra bodyguards);

Politician Shiria Khatun (forced by Muslim threats to her children to dress in a "less Western" manner);

Christian minister Dr. Peter Hammond
;

Actor Omar Sharif;

Artist Sooreh Hera (self-censored by Muslim threats and forced into hiding);

Artist Sarah Maple (gallery workers threatened, gallery window smashed, 24-hour police protection);

Beatle Paul McCartney;

150 Austrian Coptic Christians (Austrian interior ministry found list targeting each of them for attack);

100+ Canadian-Arab Christians (each one targeted on an Al Qaeda website);

Volvo and Ikea;

UK teacher Gary Smith
(face slashed, skull fractured);

UK Muslim scientist Usama Hasan (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

Islam expert Robert Spencer; and again Robert Spencer; and again Robert Spencer; and again Ro...well, you get the idea.

And countless others have been subjected to similar threats and violence.

The lights are going out. The growth of Islam means the death of civil liberties. It's time to resist.

Excellent research Traeh, this one's going into my "Quotes of Note" file. You are a true and committed counter-jihad warrior and I thank you for all your hard work.

And, at greater length, here is what one Fr J L Menezes, a Catholic priest who spent many years among Muslims in India, had to say on the subject of Islam.

“The Mahommedan religion on the whole with all its dogmatic and moral principles, and with all its positive and negative laws has been a curse to human society.

Mahommed pretended to confer by his religion a boon, at least on his own countrymen, by giving them in place of gross idolatry a purer faith, and surer moral habits, but in this attempt he has miserably failed and has hopelessly fallen into the very sin he so vehemently assailed.

Mahommedanism has penetrated into barbarous countries and has forced its inhabitants to accept it as their saving religion, but in doing so it has not succeeded in elevating man’s condition to a higher level – or at least to a level any higher than that of Arabia in Mohammed’s time.

'The Partial and specious reforms which it may have attempted to effect, are vitiated by the fact that they tend to exclude the higher and nobler virtues;

'and as their inner life of families, the whole, the whole tone of society and the intellectual and moral standard of a people depend on the principles of the ruling religion,

'it is hopeless to expect that Islam will ever cease to be what it hitherto proved,

'**the most formidable obstacle to the dawn of a progressive and enlightened civilization** {my emphasis - dda}.

'How can it be otherwise?

'No permanent house can be built on a foundation of sand; what permanent civilization and progress then can be expected from a people professing a religion founded on fatalism, polygamy and slavery?

'Their blind belief in inevitable fate, and their antagonism to liberty of thought and action have rendered reform next to impossible; and the professors of this religion seem never to realize their obligation and duty towards the people under their rule, of spreading true civilization, good government and the cultivation of the peaceful arts.

'The natural consequence of this ignorance and blindness has been despotism, mal-administration, bigoted persecution and oppression of their co-religionists.

'In the countries of the Mahommedan world

'anarchy, rapine, revenge, strife and murder are the order of the day,

'thieving, lying, usury and oppression are looked upon more as virtues than vices;

'unrestrained licentiousness is carried to unimaginable excess...

'They are generally illiterate and at the same time self-conceited

'and their vainglory in their religion and the nothingness of their own acquirements makes them scorn every other religion;

'the meager education which they generally receive when young, makes them believe that there is not much left for them to learn in the world.

'In short, Mahommedan countries are the chosen homes of
ignorance, bigotry, tyranny and brutal vice,

'and rendezvous for a filthy, unprincipled people, as well as for brigands, felons and freebooters.

'While all other countries not influenced by Islam have made rapid progress in every direction and enjoy the blessings and peace of true civilization,

'Mahommedan countries have remained absolutely opposed to change and reform;

'nay, rapacity and extortion have reduced them to a most deplorable state.

'Such is the boon conferred on human society by the Mahommedan religion, and what a benefactor Mahommed has been to his country!

'Who was pleased to give to his country, nay, to the whole world, a religion which,

' claiming a divine origin as the final and irrevocable standard of morality,

'has kept its followers sunk in ignorance and barbarism, and has become an insuperable barrier to the regeneration, civilization and progress of the Eastern world.”


- from THE LIFE AND RELIGION OF MOHAMMAD. By J. L. Menezes, 1912 (reprinted in 2005).


If their imam preaches the true muslim faith, perhaps the FBI should consider opening fire.

DDA--You may also wish to look up some of the works of Samuel Zwemer.

I can accept that the world of Islam is internally diverse. But what all these dhimmi spokesmen miss is the deeply theological justification for violence found in the Qur'an and hadith. Their moral equivalence game of appealing to the ban on Canaan and other portions of Scripture only shows their utter ignorance--as if the ban on Canaan wasn't a one-time matter, and that no such command was given after God became incarnate and lived among us.

Spending time among muslims and india and writing about Islam in general only gives sane, rational people the impression that Menezes is insane, confusing aspects of indian culture (lying, usury, illiteracy, filthiness, uncleanliness) with millions of other muslims he never met.

India allows their Salafi hate Imam Zakir Naik to spill BS freely and poison the minds of millions of Indian muslims but in China Al salafiyya was banned and attacked by the Imams, and Hui Generals banned the Salafis from Saudi Arabia.

I have met them before, Indian muslims are indeed "self-conceited", since they think that being Indian makes them superior and that India is the greatest country in the world. They think that India should be able to do whatever it wants and abuse other countries. I believe that they, like Hindu Indians, are also quite racist, especially northern indians from punjab. Northern Indians don't let their women marry non Indians.

Indian muslims aren't different from Hindus, former Indian President Abdul Kalam who is a muslim continued India's detrimental activities towards minorities in northeast India and its expansionist aims.

___________________________________________________________
A Pakistani writer writes on the arrogance of Indian muslims and their attitude here-

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?col=§ion=opinion&xfile=data/opinion/2009/March/opinion_March3.xml

"Why have Indian Muslims, most whom seem well-educated and demonstrate sound judgment on all other matters under the sun, suddenly lose sight of their bearings (and manners) when it comes to attacking all things Pakistani, be it the country’s politics, culture, food or fashion. Why are they hell-bent on defying common sense when it comes to writing off a whole country as being a terrorist hub?

What used to be friendly bantering during India versus Pakistan cricket matches is not so friendly any more. What were merely funny punches about Lollywood’s efforts to imitate Bollywood are also beginning to hurt. These may be trivial examples, but the bottom line is, there seem to be serious efforts on the part of the Indian Muslims to hurt and incite Pakistanis into making emotional outbursts. They can then go about saying what an intolerant bunch those Pakistanis are.

Indian Muslims may rant and rave about what emotional fools Pakistanis are, or how they lack tolerance for other cultures or religions, while Indian Muslims get by quite amicably as a minority of 13.4 per cent (officially) in a country that is predominantly Hindu."
___________________________________________________________

An Indian muslim wrote an insulting response at this link, dissing the founder of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan Muhammad Ali Jinnah, repeating the false rumor that he enjoyed pork. (he did drink alcohol, but thats much more acceptable to non practicing muslims than eating the flesh of a filthy swine)

http://indianmuslims.in/pakistan-indian-muslims/comment-page-1/

when*pigs*fly,

Thank you!

Dear Horse,

Hinduism, whatever its flaws, is not a totalitarian system bent on world domination. Islam is. That's the key difference.

In core Islamic texts, Muhammad says your "lives and property" are not safe from him unless you become a Muslim

In Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, the two most canonical hadith collections:

Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 25:

Narrated Ibn 'Umar:
Allah's Apostle said: "I have been ordered (by Allah) to fight against the people until they testify that none has the right to be worshipped but Allah and that Muhammad is Allah's Apostle, and offer the prayers perfectly and give the obligatory charity, so if they perform all that, then they save their lives and property from me except for Islamic laws and then their reckoning (accounts) will be done by Allah."

Sahih Muslim, Book 031, Number 5917:

...Ali went a bit and then halted and did not look about and then said in a loud voice: Allah's Messenger, on what issue should I fight with the people? Thereupon he (the Prophet) said: Fight with them until they bear testimony to the fact that there is no god but Allah and Muhammad is his Messenger, and when they do that then their blood and their riches are inviolable from your hands but what is justified by law and their reckoning is with Allah.

--------------------------------

On page 222 (326 in the Arabic) of the earliest Muslim biography of Muhammad, he affirms that those who do not follow him will be slaughtered.

Abu jahl said to them: "Muhammad alleges that if you follow him you will be kings of the Arabs and the Persians. Then after death you will be raised to gardens like those of the Jordan. But if you do not follow him you will be slaughtered, and when you are raised from the dead you will be burned in the fire of hell." The apostle [Muhammad] came out to them with a handful of dust saying: "I do say that."


Obama appointee.

That's the key.

Infiltration & subversion, all the way.

"Horse" wrote:

India allows their Salafi hate Imam Zakir Naik to spill BS freely and poison the minds of millions of Indian muslims...
..........................

According to "Horse", Indian Muslims have got Islam all wrong. Malay Muslims have got Islam all wrong. Arab Muslims have got Islam wrong for the most part, as well.

The only Muslims apparently following "true Islam" is a tiny minority of ethnically Chinese Hui Muslims in Western China and northern Thailand.

I guess U.S. Attorney McQuade was right when she said "There is so much ignorance...surrounding the Islamic religion". And according to "Horse", most of that ignorance seems to be on the part of Muslims themselves.

Seriously—even if his idiocy were true, how would it help us? The vulnerable Infidels of the world would still be surrounded by violent, crazed Jihadists.

That "Horse" claims they are all "mistunderstanders" of Islam doesn't do us much good...

Imad Hamad, regional director for the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, said at the forum that "it seems like our civil rights and liberties have been put on trial" in recent years.

In a sane world, Hamad would be anxious to demonstrate his community's loyalty to the United States...
............................

True enough. But Hamad is a former "Palestinian" terrorist who is also a supporter of Hezbollah and Hamas. He has called for “better U.S. relations with Hezbollah”.

He's supported local Detroit-area "charities" that are suspected fronts for Hamas and Al-Qaida.

That and more ugly and disturbing stuff about Imad Hamad from Debbie Schlussel from 2003:

http://www.debbieschlussel.com/6282/schlussel-stops-fbi-award-to-terrorist-supporter-the-column-that-started-it-all/

That's great, wpf. But I can think of more useful places for that information than in your "quotes of note file". How about forwarding it to Barbara McQuade and a few others? Perhaps a few other dhimmis... as well as the outnumbered anti-dhimmi public officials, who could use such information against the dhimmi dimwits in future meetings and hearings? Hmmm???

dumbledoresarmy,
Thank you for that interesting quotation. I always appreciate your informative comments.

Well argued to our friend Horse, gravenimage.

And if it's true that Horse's Hui Muslims in Western China are somewhat "moderate," that's surely because the Chinese dictatorship will only accept extremely watered-down forms of Islam, and brutally crushes anything else. I'm not impressed by the allegiance of friend Horse to the Chinese government's approved form of Islam. Chinese officially approved Islam is no more genuine than the fake Dalai Lama the Chinese government tried to designate for Tibet.

Can the reps of the federal gov't get any stupider??

Utterly pathetic.

AMERICANS VANQUISH ISLAMIC IGNORANCE
PROCESSING DAILY INFORMATION.

AT THIS POINT,WE REQUIRE A MUSLIM TO
PROVE RIGHTEOUSNESS BY WESTERN STANDARDS
OF CIVILIZATION.

OTHERWISE,LACKING THAT VALIDITY,
OUR KNOWLEDGE LEADS US TO SUSPECT
THEY ARE BARBARIANS.

Oops--Quote "Like blaming Catholics for the Oklahoma City bombing". Then she tries to qualify it by saying "He wasn't even a Catholic at the time, in fact" Really the facts are: McVeigh was a catholic and he died a catholic.

Be that as it may-

Why is Lone Wolf McQuade is equating the Oklahoma bombing with Catholics? Is something new in the wind- for after all those pesky catholics are against -The death penalty, abortion and a whole list things the government are for.

"She" didn't say that. Robert Spencer said that.

McVeigh said he was atheist or agnostic and that his "religion was science."

Traeh wrote:

And if it's true that Horse's Hui Muslims in Western China are somewhat "moderate," that's surely because the Chinese dictatorship will only accept extremely watered-down forms of Islam, and brutally crushes anything else.
...........................

Absolutely, Traeh. All "Horse" is doing here is acting as an apologist for Islam. If he were genuinely concerned about all that "misunderstanding", he would spend his time trying to educate his vicious, Jihad-minded coreligionists on the "true" nature of Islam, rather than spending his time here trying to confuse any stray Kaffirs who might be open to his Taqiyya.

By the way, I always appreciate your erudite quotes from the Qu'ran and Hadith, Traeh. Nothing like going to the original baleful Islamic sources to see where the impetus for Jihad and Shari'ah comes from.

I don't use the word cretin or dickwit lightly, but either you are one or you enjoy distorting other people's words big time.

First of all, moron, Hui are descended from arabs and persians who settled in china and mix with chinese. Go look up DNA tests on hui people. The Y chromosome is different from non muslim han chinese. The only Hui who will have an O Y chromosome like han chinese, are the ones descended from han who converted to marry hui women.

Second, I correctly noted that Malays are sunni, Rohingyas are sunni, and the Malays are mistreating rohingyas due to their race, not due to any differences in religion or sect.

Malays have "ketuanan melayu", which literally means MALAY supremacy, NOT MUSLIM supremacy, in article 153 on their constitution. They believe the malay race, language, and culture are sacred and something to be protected.

Muslims have no obligation to defend the Malay race or language.

Malays like Syed Jaafar Albar are descended from Yemeni arabs in the paternal line, tons of them settled in Malaysia and married Malay women.

However, Syed Jaafar believed fully in the doctrine of ethnic "malay supremacy", saying "Wherever I am, I am a Malay", talking about "Malay racial supremacy", and claiming Malays are "masters" of Malaysia.

He did not say "Islamic supremacy", he did not say "muslim supremacy", he said MALAY MALAY MALAY supremacy.

You budged your really greasy nose into my comments on the Malaysia article, and hijacked the topic, denying that its race rather than religion thats the problem in Malaysia.
_________________________________________________________

Third, I never said Indian muslims had got Islam wrong.

I just said that they were racist like other Hindu Indians and highly conceited and ethnocentric, believing India is the center of the world.

And Malays are violating Islam by having malay racial supremacism written into the laws of their country.

And Arabs in Syria, Oman and in other countries as well are practicing true Islam. I never said Arabs had Islam wrong.

___________________________________________________________

And you know nothing about the history of China or Hui people. the Communist government came to power in 1949, and it does not rule taiwan, northern thailand, and other places where Hui people live.

I wrote several massive paragraphs on the regimes of Hui Generals like Ma Bufang, Ma Buqing, Ma Fuxiang, they all ruled BEFORE the communists, and Ma Bufang battled for the Republic of China government against the Communists (who were NOT the government of China at the time), and beheaded thousands of them in battle, in addition to defeating the Tibetan army in combat.

All the sects of Islam in China, the Sufi menhuan, the yihewani, the qadim, were formed before the communist rule, they had their practices and the sufis had their saints and leaders established before the communists came to power. All hui have the quran in full available, no parts are stripped out.

And in taiwan, we have hui generals serving in the military, like Ma Buqing and Bai Chongxi, who, in addition to being defence minister, was Chairman of the Chinese muslim association. the Association decided all the rules, and it was run by muslims, not the government, there is no "watering down" of islam in taiwan or thailand.

Ma Shaowu, the Hui General in charge of the entire southern xinjiang province, who allowed hindus to work and worship, and swedish missionaries to come in, ruled before any communist takeover.

The Salafiyya, were banned by the Hui imams and Generals in the 40's, BEFORE the communist takeover.

Multiple muslim rebellions in western china were crushed by loyalist Hui generals serving in the Imperial Army, before China ever became a Republic.

you guys, traeh and graven don't know anything about chinese history, nor should you pretend to.
____________________________________________________________

Both of you morons, Islamists and Islamophobes, are pissing us off. The islamists from far away countries, like Egypt, proclaim to muslims that Malays in south thailand are suffering "persecution", and that their cause is truly "islamic", which all muslims should support. They totally ignore Hui and thai muslims and either they don't know we exist or don't care.

You Islamophobes do the same thing, you look at a foreign land like Thailand, see Malays who call themselves muslims causing violence, you label their cause as true "islam", and you are aiding the Islamists by doing so, you undercut us of credibility, you are saying the only real muslims in thailand are Malays, and thats exactly what Islamists are saying. You are feeding them propaganda, when foreign muslims see you Islamophobes bring up the Malay insurgency, they will inevitably see themselves as friends of the Malays since you are their enemies, and start defending their cause.

One article posted on this blog, was about a TRAFFIC accident involving Hui in mainland China. A han driver accidently struck and killed a Hui. The accident had zero, nothing to do with Islam, but somehow it was posted on this blog. Hui protestors were just demanding compensation in cash (Chinese law provides all accident victims monetary compensation), they weren't calling for the driver to be killed, they weren't calling for his death at all, and they didn't demand that he pay back money, only that the state provide the legal compensation by law.

Yet somehow this blog decided that it had to do with Islam, and posted it for everyone to see. When Islamists see this, they get excited and think "another persecuted community of muslims, lets go there and cause trouble", when the incident had nothing to do with religion.

you know nothing about islam in China, fool, see my above comment

Should all Nazis be blamed for the holocaust? Believe what you want, but when you commit the crime of killing a Jewish person because he or she is Jewish, you should be prosecuted for murder, at least in the U.S. The problem with Islamic supremacists is that their "religion" comes with its own penal code and civil law (Sharia) which enforces Islamic principles upon Muslims and non-Muslims, and it requires all Muslims to enforce it when possible or they are themselves guilty under Sharia law. Under Sharia law it is perfectly "legal" to kill Jewish people and Christian people and non-Muslims and to abuse them and steal from them and lie to them and rape them and make them "feel subdued" until or unless they convert or pay the infidel tax (i.e., extortion) or are killed.

To compare Islam with Catholicism is ignorant. The Catholic church has no mandate to subjugate non-Catholics or to rape them or steal from them or lie to them or murder them. Those elitist, liberals who want no god but themselves paint all religions as the same, with the same goals, with the same level of goodness, and with the same level of error/evil in order to discredit all of them. Such "stereotyping" is just blatantly erroneous and superficial and enables the global jihad.

Ladies and gentlemen

some time ago, a poster here called Joeblough summed up the usual Mohammedan mode of 'argument', when non-Muslims confront them with examples of Mohammedan bad behaviour from around the world.

"-- It's not true. It never happened.
-- You did it first.
-- Everybody does it.
-- The Jews did it, it says so in their books.
-- It's a local custom. It has nothing to do with mohammedanism.
-- It couldn't happen because it's not in the koran.
-- There are 3000 of us right outside your door, so you better apologize.
-- Screw you!"

And here is someone else, also reflecting upon the ways in which Muslims shapeshift frantically when attempting to deflect Infidel attention from the evil which their death cult explicitly commands and sacralises, and which their co-religionists do in a dozen countries.

"There have been so many excuses that muslims have made for islam, that it is worth keeping a tab on them.

"Here are a few I can remember

'1. The sura or text has been taken out of context.

When shown that the context reinforced the sura, we had

'2. It is only a tiny minority of muslims that are responsible for violence, and they are not REAL muslims.

{This seems to be one of 'Horse's' favourite "arguments" - dda}.

'When that ran out of steam

3. It is the Wahabis and only the Wahabi strain that is giving islam a bad name. Steven Scwartz used this quite often. {And 'Horse' has tried this one - dda}

'When it was shown that not just Wahabis were out of control.

'4. Non-muslims just do not understand the nature of the divinity of the koran. Patently absurd.

{Horse has tried this one, at least once - dda}

Then came
5. Only muslim scholars truly understand the nature of the koran.

{We've had that canard presented by 'Horse', too, in a recent thread - dda}.

'When that was disposed of, we had

'6. Only when the koran is read in Arabic is its divinity grasped.

'7. Islamophobia - any critic of islam was an islamophobe.

{Observe 'Horse''s accusations of 'Islamophobia', above - dda}.

'We have new excuses

'. Official and Un-official islam.
This is a brand new theory, cooked up to excuse the utter depravity of islam.'"...

- Posted by: DP111 at May 5, 2006 1:40 PM

And another poster, with experience of debating with Muslim apologists, offered these observations:

'When conversing with Muslims remember these simple rules.

l. Islam is perfect (The perfect ideology for the world).

2. By extension an Islamic is perfect and can do no wrong.

3. Islam is never the aggressor or wrong, because it is perfect and only the imperfect who resist Islam are wrong. The imperfect unbeliever is the aggressor for resisting perfect Islam.

4. The Muslim is ALWAYS correct, it is the fault of the imperfect unbeliever that he doesn't understand Islam - as he has not been schooled in the right way.
Has anyone ever seen an Arab/Muslim accept personal responsibility about anything, or ever cop to error or mistakes? I haven't.

At the very least it is Insha'allah (The will of Allah), thus eliminating the need to accept responsibility.

BTW, Muslims play the guilt card with Kaffirs, but the guilt card does not play on a Muslim table.

If you have one word by which to describe those raised in the Judeo Christian World it is guilt [note: comes from having a truth/ falsehood worldview – things are objectively the case, or not, whether they are psychological facts or ‘material’ facts - dda].

'**Aggression and aggressiveness defines the Arab/Muslim** {and *that* is our 'friend' "Horse" to a T...dda}.

'Bear that in mind when cross talking with a Muslim.

'What Muslims respond to, and viciously, is shame
and ridicule.

' Especially ridicule, because that is their chief dialectical tool, invoked against Kaffirs.

'Muhammad was thin-skinned, his response to ridicule was slaughter (fitnah is worse than slaughter).
The Qur'an toilet riots, were a response to perceived ridicule of the basis of their ego and identity.. thus themselves'.

- Posted by: Giaour at June 21, 2005 2:57 PM'.

"Horse" wrote:

I don't use the word cretin or dickwit lightly...
...........................

Good to know I "rate".

More:

First of all, moron, Hui are descended from arabs and persians who settled in china and mix with chinese. Go look up DNA tests on hui people. The Y chromosome is different from non muslim han chinese. The only Hui who will have an O Y chromosome like han chinese, are the ones descended from han who converted to marry hui women.
...........................

Once more into the breach...

Most people in Western China are some sort of mix of Chinese and Turkmen or Persian or other ethnicities from the steppes of Asia. I don't believe ethnicity tells you anything substantive about a people one way or the other beyond simple genetic traits—appearance, degree of resistance to certain ailments, etc.

More:

Second, I correctly noted that Malays are sunni, Rohingyas are sunni, and the Malays are mistreating rohingyas due to their race, not due to any differences in religion or sect.
...........................

Also not uncommon among Muslims. While Sudanese Muslims savagely raped, massacred, and enslaved Sudanese Christians and animists, they also brutally oppress Sudanese Muslims in Darfur. This seems to be largely on tribal and "racial" grounds-that the Darfur Muslims are less ethnically Arab than are the majority Sudanese Muslims. In addition, Muslim supremacy has strong links to Arab supremacy—you see this in the virtually universal urge throughout the Ummah of adopting Arabic names and Arab—as well as specifically Muslim—cultural norms.

More:

Malays have "ketuanan melayu", which literally means MALAY supremacy, NOT MUSLIM supremacy, in article 153 on their constitution. They believe the malay race, language, and culture are sacred and something to be protected.
...........................

Another conflation of Islam and race. Malays are specifically considered Muslim in Malaysia, purely on the basis of being Malay. The infamous "Bumiputra" laws, which discriminate against non-Muslim non-Malay Hindus and Chinese, emphasize this.

The Bumiputra laws, while Malaysian in specifics, are really no different from the standards of Shari'ah one finds all over the Muslim world to a greater or lesser degree, which *always* oppress and discriminate against Infidels.

Also, while these laws are intended to enforce Malay supremacism, they make it almost impossible for ethnic Malays to leave Islam. Apostates such as Lina Joy have been threatened and oppressed for leaving Islam, both by the Malay authorities *and* by the barbaric Ummah.

More:

Muslims have no obligation to defend the Malay race or language.
...........................

Indeed not. The above is an attempt by Malays to mimic Arab supremacism—many Muslims, true to form, look down on Malays just as they do Berbers, and Kurds, and sub-saharans, and and all other non-Arab Muslims.

More:

Malays like Syed Jaafar Albar are descended from Yemeni arabs in the paternal line, tons of them settled in Malaysia and married Malay women.

However, Syed Jaafar believed fully in the doctrine of ethnic "malay supremacy", saying "Wherever I am, I am a Malay", talking about "Malay racial supremacy", and claiming Malays are "masters" of Malaysia.

He did not say "Islamic supremacy", he did not say "muslim supremacy", he said MALAY MALAY MALAY supremacy.
...........................

Some Malaysian Muslims really are descended—at least in part—from Arab stock. Some simply converted—the pressure to convert is always intense in Dar-al-Islam where authorized oppression of Infidels exists.

Again—there is no difference in Malaysia itself between Muslim supremacism and Malay supremacism. And many forms of Malay supremacism take specifically Muslim forms, such as the recent ban on Christian Bibles in Malaysia using the word "Allah" for the God of the Gospels.

More:

You budged your really greasy nose into my comments on the Malaysia article, and hijacked the topic, denying that its race rather than religion thats the problem in Malaysia.
...........................

Here come the ad hominem attacks. I assure you, "Horse" has no idea whether my nose is "greasy" or not, nor does the oiliness or lack of same of my proboscis have anything whatsoever to with the accuracy of my comments.

Malaysia is very much a Muslim state. Its history of enforcing Shari'ah has much in common with neighboring Indonesia, another Muslim state on the fringes of Dar-al-Islam with a large Infidel population. Both have been comparatively "moderate" for much of their history, and both are becoming increasingly strict in their interpretation of Islam in recent years, with the completely expected increase in oppression of Infidels and violence directed against them, as well as increased enforcement of Shari'ah resulting in canings, floggings, and calls for even more draconian Islamic penalties.

More:

And you know nothing about the history of China or Hui people. the Communist government came to power in 1949, and it does not rule taiwan, northern thailand, and other places where Hui people live...
...........................

Before the Communists, Hui Muslims in China faced the Kuomintang and the Empire. In China, in Taiwan, and in northern Thailand, Muslims make up a *tiny* part of the population.

As one can tell from history, Muslims in a perceived position of weakness are seldom much of a problem. It is when they reach about 10% of any given population that they become aggressive and push—often violently—for more and more concessions to Muslim supremacy and Shari'ah law.

The other case is where they sense cultural weakness, in places like Europe and much of the rest of the West. These conditions do not pertain, for the most part, in East Asia.

More:

All the sects of Islam in China, the Sufi menhuan, the yihewani, the qadim, were formed before the communist rule, they had their practices and the sufis had their saints and leaders established before the communists came to power. All hui have the quran in full available, no parts are stripped out.

And in taiwan, we have hui generals serving in the military, like Ma Buqing and Bai Chongxi, who, in addition to being defence minister, was Chairman of the Chinese muslim association. the Association decided all the rules, and it was run by muslims, not the government, there is no "watering down" of islam in taiwan or thailand.
...........................

The theology of Islam is not "watered down", but much of its practice is. Muslims in Europe and America and rest of the West have had full access to Islamic texts since the very beginning, but they have not begun to think that they can impose full Shari'ah on those lands until quite recently. Even now, Muslims in the West who call for the *immediate imposition* of full Sharia'ah know that this is not possible, but only something they can hope to institute in time. Right now, there are simply too many Kufr, and still too little dhimmitude for their desire.

More:

Ma Shaowu, the Hui General in charge of the entire southern xinjiang province, who allowed hindus to work and worship, and swedish missionaries to come in, ruled before any communist takeover.
...........................

If he had tried to institute full Shari'ah in southern Xinjiang Province, he likely would not have ruled there long—the Chinese authorities—*of any era*—would not have allowed it.

More:

Both of you morons, Islamists and Islamophobes, are pissing us off. The islamists from far away countries, like Egypt, proclaim to muslims that Malays in south thailand are suffering "persecution", and that their cause is truly "islamic", which all muslims should support. They totally ignore Hui and thai muslims and either they don't know we exist or don't care.
...........................

Malay Muslims in southern Thailand make up a large enough part of the population that they are in violent revolt, pushing for a Shari'ah state. There are just too many Thai Infidels in the north for Muslims there to attempt such a thing yet.

Non-Malay Muslims in the southern Philippines are behaving in *exactly* the same manner—pulling off Jihad terror attacks and bombings, kidnapping, raping, and beheading Infidels, and seeking Muslim "autonomy"—meaning Shari'ah. Muslims in other parts of the Ummah are supporting Muslims in the Philippines just as they are supporting Malay Muslims in Thailand.

More:

You Islamophobes do the same thing, you look at a foreign land like Thailand, see Malays who call themselves muslims causing violence, you label their cause as true "islam", and you are aiding the Islamists by doing so, you undercut us of credibility, you are saying the only real muslims in thailand are Malays, and thats exactly what Islamists are saying. You are feeding them propaganda, when foreign muslims see you Islamophobes bring up the Malay insurgency, they will inevitably see themselves as friends of the Malays since you are their enemies, and start defending their cause.
...........................

How many times have we heard this? Anti-Jihadists are aiding Jihadists—by noticing the savagery of Jihad. We are not the ones labeling Muslim barbarism as "true Islam"—it is Muslims themselves who do this—we are just pointing out this phenomenon.

Muslims are not supporting Jihad in southern Thailand because Infidels halfway around the world are noticing that they are doing so. The Muslim "insurgency" much predates the modern anti-Jihad movement in the West. Indeed, Jihad *predates the West itself*, as such.

As always, I would say to "Horse" that if he really is 'pissed off' by "Islamists", then he needs to take that up with his savage, Jihad-minded coreligonists.

Of course, that might be a bit more hazardous to his health than bantering with the civilized "Islamophobes" here at Jihad Watch...

You must really be lacking a brain.

During the Imperial era, Muslims occupied top positions in the military. When the Imperial Court fled to Xi'an in the Boxer rebellion, it was guarded entirely by hui generals like Ma Anliang and Ma Fuxiang and troops from gansu, who could have potentially seized control of the government if they wanted to.

Bai Chongxi, the head of the Chinese muslim association, and a four star General, was a top Kuomintang member, and was seen by westerners during World War 2 as even potentially succeeding Chiang Kai-shek as the head of state of China should Chiang die or be assasinated.

Ma Bufang, Ma Fuxiang, Ma Buqing were all top Kuomintang members, on the Kuomintang central committees, and high ranking Lieutenant Generals in the Army.

__________________________________________________________

There is a big racial problem in indonesia. all indonesians, muslims or not, are racists. The dayaks are mostly not muslim, but they were encouraged by the indonesian army to riot against ethnic chinese several times, and the Javanese in indonesia did so as well, but not for religious reasons, its due to RACIAL tensions.

quote from website on anti chinese riots

http://library.thinkquest.org/26477/indon2.htm

Chinese in Indonesia said that Indonesians hated them because they were Chinese, never said ANYTHING about Islam-

"I'm Chinese, but I've been living in Indonesia, so I'm Indonesian," she said. "Maybe that's how people think -- that I'm Chinese, even though I'm an Indonesian citizen. But they don't know how long my family has been here."

"Tan, who is 37, was huddled inside the furniture store with her husband and three teenage children. As attackers banged on the shutters shouting "Kill the Chinese!" the store's workers gave the family a sign when it was safe to run."

_________________________________________________________

I didn't see the Indons saying, "Kill the Kuffar!", I see them say, "Kill the Chinese!"

Chinese language, chinese character, chinese names were all ban by Indonesian, but indonesian alphabet (western latin alphabet), bahasa indonesia, indonesian names, all have nothing to do with Islam... Suharto, the name of the indonesian dictator who banned chinese language and names, is not a muslim name, but he was a muslim.

The banning of chinese culture had nothing to do with islam, but it had to do with indonesian racism and supremacy, since indonesian names, alphabet, and langauge don't have anything to do with islam either

Indonesians hate chinese writing and even used ridiculous evidence to accuse chinese of doing something (like chinese characters were found next to a dead indonesian's bodies, so they blame chinese for the killing)

Malays and Indonesians are RACIST.

NON muslim Indonesian dayaks attacking ethnic chinese multiple times in Borneo.

I'd like you to explain what that has to do with islam.....

and also explain attacks and massacres of ethnic Chinese on Java in the 17th century, which also had nothing to do with Islam.

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