An article from IslamOnline (posted several years ago and since taken down, but captured here) shows what was in the book that the Jews presented to the Muslims:
Dear Sheikh! As-Salam `Alaykum. What, according to the Qur’an, are the main characteristics and qualities of Jews?Answer: [...] As regards the question you posed, the following is the fatwa issued by Sheikh `Atiyyah Saqr, former Head of Al-Azhar Fatwa Committee, in which he states the following:
“The Qur’an has specified a considerable deal of its verses to talking about Jews, their personal qualities and characteristics. The Qur’anic description of Jews is quite impartial; praising them in some occasions where they deserve praise and condemning them in other occasions where they practice blameworthy acts. Yet, the latter occasions outnumbered the former, due to their bad qualities and the heinous acts they used to commit.
The Qur’an praises them on the verse that reads: “ And verily We gave the Children of Israel the Scripture and the Command and the Prophethood, and provided them with good things and favored them above (all) peoples.” (Al-Jathiyah:16) i.e. the peoples of their time.
Among the bad qualities they were characterized with are the following:
1. They used to fabricate things and falsely ascribe them to Allah. Allah Almighty says: “ That is because they say: We have no duty to the Gentiles. They speak a lie concerning Allah knowingly.” (Al-`Imran:75) Also: “The Jews say: Allah's hand is fettered. Their hands are fettered and they are accursed for saying so. Nay, but both His hands are spread out wide in bounty. He bestoweth as He will.” (Al-Ma`idah:64)
In another verse Almighty Allah says: “Verily Allah heard the saying of those who said, (when asked for contributions to the war): "Allah, forsooth, is poor, and we are rich! We shall record their saying with their slaying of the Prophets wrongfully and We shall say: Taste ye the punishment of burning!” (Al-`Imran:181)
2. They love to listen to lies. Concerning this Allah says: “and of the Jews: listeners for the sake of falsehood, listeners on behalf of other folk” (Al-Ma’idah: 41)
3. Disobeying Almighty Allah and never observing His commands. Allah says: “And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts.” (Al-Ma’idah: 13)
4. Disputing and quarreling. This is clear in the verse that reads: “Their Prophet said unto them: Lo! Allah hath raised up Saul to be a king for you. They said: How can he have kingdom over us when we are more deserving of the kingdom than he is, since he hath not been given wealth enough?” (Al-Baqarah: 247)
5. Hiding the truth and standing for misleading. This can be understood from the verse that reads: “…distort the Scripture with their tongues, that ye may think that what they say is from the Scripture, when it is not from the Scripture.” (Al-`Imran: 78)
6. Staging rebellion against the Prophets and rejecting their guidance. This is clear in the verse: “And when ye said: O Moses! We will not believe in thee till we see Allah plainly.” (Al-Baqarah: 55)
7. Hypocrisy. In a verse, we read: “And when they fall in with those who believe, they say: We believe; but when they go apart to their devils they declare: Lo! we are with you; verily we did but mock.” (Al-Baqarah: 14) In another verse, we read: “Enjoin ye righteousness upon mankind while ye yourselves forget (to practice it)? And ye are readers of the Scripture! Have ye then no sense?” (Al-Baqarah: 44)
8. Giving preference to their own interests over the rulings of religion and the dictates of truth. Allah says: “…when there cometh unto you a messenger (from Allah) with that which ye yourselves desire not, ye grow arrogant, and some ye disbelieve and some ye slay?” (Al-Baqarah: 87)
9. Wishing evil for people and trying to mislead them. This is clear in the verse that reads: “Many of the People of the Scripture long to make you disbelievers after your belief, through envy on their own account, after the truth hath become manifest unto them.” (Al-Baqarah: 109)
10. They feel pain to see others in happiness and are gleeful when others are afflicted with a calamity. This is clear in the verse that reads: “If a lucky chance befall you, it is evil unto them, and if disaster strike you they rejoice thereat.” (Al-`Imran:120)
11. They are known of their arrogance and haughtiness. They claimed to be the sons and of Allah and His beloved ones. Allah tells us about this in the verse that reads: “The Jews and Christians say: We are sons of Allah and His loved ones.” (Al-Ma’idah: 18)
12. Utilitarianism and opportunism are among their innate traits. This is clear in the verse that reads: “And of their taking usury when they were forbidden it, and of their devouring people's wealth by false pretences.” (An-Nisa’: 161)
13. Their impoliteness and indecent way of speech is beyond description. Referring to this, the Qur’anic verse reads: “Some of those who are Jews change words from their context and say: "We hear and disobey; hear thou as one who heareth not" and "Listen to us!" distorting with their tongues and slandering religion. If they had said: "We hear and we obey; hear thou, and look at us" it had been better for them, and more upright. But Allah hath cursed them for their disbelief, so they believe not, save a few.” (An-Nisa’:46)
14. It is easy for them to slay people and kill innocents. Nothing in the world is dear to their hearts than shedding blood and murdering human beings. They never give up this trait even with the Messengers and the Prophets. Allah says: “…and slew the prophets wrongfully.” (Al-Baqarah: 61)
15. They are merciless and heartless. In this meaning, the Qur’anic verse explains: “Then, even after that, your hearts were hardened and became as rocks, or worse than rocks, for hardness.” (Al-Baqarah: 74)
16. They never keep their promises or fulfill their words. Almighty Allah says: “Is it ever so that when ye make a covenant a party of you set it aside? The truth is, most of them believe not.” (Al-Baqarah: 100)
17. They rush hurriedly to sins and compete in transgression. Allah says: “They restrained not one another from the wickedness they did. Verily evil was that they used to do!” (Al-MA’idah:79)
18. Cowardice and their love for this worldly life are their undisputable traits. To this, the Qur’an refers when saying: “Ye are more awful as a fear in their bosoms than Allah. That is because they are a folk who understand not. They will not fight against you in a body save in fortified villages or from behind walls. Their adversity among themselves is very great. Ye think of them as a whole whereas their hearts are divers.” (Al-Hashr:13-14) Allah Almighty also says: “And thou wilt find them greediest of mankind for life and (greedier) than the idolaters.” (Al-Baqarah:96)
19. Miserliness runs deep in their hearts. Describing this, the Qur’an states: “Or have they even a share in the Sovereignty? Then in that case, they would not give mankind even the speck on a date stone.” (An-Nisa’:53)
20. Distorting Divine Revelation and Allah’s Sacred Books. Allah says in this regard: “Therefore woe be unto those who write the Scripture with their hands anthem say, "This is from Allah," that they may purchase a small gain therewith. Woe unto them for that their hands have written, and woe unto them for that they earn thereby.” (Al-Baqara: 79)
"Jews Extend Qur’an to Muslims," by Habeeb Alli for the Common Ground News Service via Middle East Online, May 11:
Toronto, Canada - I’m thrilled again to have been a part of recent history – while someone burned the Qur’an in the United States, another presented us with a Qur’an in an expression of solidarity. I told this to my congregation during a Friday service and they were all moved by the gesture.For the eighth year, an exercise of interfaith exchange between Jews, Muslims and Christians in Ontario has progressed in good faith – and the gift of the Qur’an was this year’s highlight. The Abraham Festival in Peterborough originated on the premise that all three faiths have a common heritage, which needs to be explored and shared. Walking through the symbolic tent of Abraham – referring to the Biblical prophet’s tent, a place of hospitality and engagement with strangers which was open to the four winds – in order to enter the St. Andrew's United Church gave attendees the sense that history can be relived, even in a modern day setting.
Dr. Dan Houpt, a Jewish partner, facilitator and doctor who has been keen in bringing the three faiths together in Peterborough, presented the Qur’an to us Muslims during the festival last month. He first suggested the idea to his Muslim counterpart and co-founder Elizabeth Rahman, who then consulted with the Canadian Council of Imams about the gift. Rahman is a convert from the UK and first became active in the community in the 1970s, with her late Indian husband.
The Muslims Students Association at the nearby Trent University hosted the Friday service, on the first day of the festival this year, so that Christian and Jewish neighbours could observe the presenting of the Qur’an. Houpt offered some thoughts on the gift, stating, "It shows we stand with [Muslims] in solidarity," and then added that this offering "shows it's a terrible act to burn a holy book." [...]
The presentation of the Qur’an by the local Jewish community was a way to show goodwill and remove any misunderstanding and hurt that Muslims may have experienced in today’s unfortunate atmosphere of Islamophobia – something Jews can relate to given their long years of dealing with anti-Semitism.
I also told festival goers that recently a group of Jewish people had donated money and time to build a mosque in Toronto. Television producer Kenny Hotz will highlight this daring project – the Peace Mosque – in his documentary to be shown on the Showcase Television channel this spring....
"Peace Mosque" would seem to be an oxymoron.
To the Muslims, Jews are simply Allah's Monkey Men. That's what Muhammad said, that's what true Muslims believe.
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2010/06/monkey-men-les-hommes-singes.html
Apalling dhimmitude.
where I live in a small town in NJ there is a significant popilation of jews there. and most of them are politically correct like this Doctor is!!!as a mtter of fact last Saturday I went to the temple sheri tofilo for a bramitzvah and the rabbi there rabbi cohen was also singing this whole interfaith bull shit. politically correct jews can inflict serios damage. my girl friend is jewish and I made dinner for about 25 jews(iranian food) for pass over last month. all of them are submarine jews. they surface twice a year on passover and then yumkipur and never to surface again for another year. they are all politcally correct. but I have managed to have a few of think twice about Islam.
m
Foolish,foolish,foolish! These foolish Jews are basically giving the Muslims the amunition to kill themselves. Don't they remember the lessons of Auswitz and Treblinka? Islam is a fascist religion just like naziism and is opposed to everything not Islamic.
These liberal pretentious Jews make me sick! Israel and the Jews are persistently being threatened by another Holocaust by Muslim terrorists and Iran, and the history of the foundation of Islam as based on the Genocide, sexual slavery and robbery of the Jewish people by the savage Arabic Pedophile rapist Mohammed and later on in Medieval Europe, and further in WW2 under Islamic Nazis in the Middle East and Yugoslavia, do not matter one bit to these pretenders! Islamophobia is created to deceitfully silence critics of Islam and Muslim fanatics but antisemitism is about protecting Jewish people from persistent racial hatred due to the Jewish Holocaust by the Nazis. The Jews were racialized as a race (instead of religious followers) by Mohammed in the first racial Genocide in history, in his goal to construct pure Arabian kingdom and Arab race, through creating Islam and its false god, to justify Mohammed's evilness in mass murdering the defiant, cosmopolitan, sophisticated and wealthy Jews who would not submit to Mohammed and his Arabic Empire. Thus, Europeans/Christians began to racialize the Jews as a race after the Islamic invasion in Medieval Christendom. And I suspect, why Socialist Hitler/the Nazis were also influenced to racialize the Jews.
I was speaking with a rabbi the other day who was given a free trip to Turkey supposedly as a goodwill gesture by some Muslim group there. (I told her they were proselytizing. More honestly they were exploiting her.) Her dismay was that it was only after her group was in Turkey that she discovered that her hosts were staunch anti-secularists, Muslim Brotherhood no doubt. She was shocked that this affluent group of doctors, engineers, etc. never gave any indication of their real feelings beforehand. No kidding.
This sort of behaviour is so masochistic and stupid. I wonder if any of them (these libtard Jews I mean ) actually have *read* this disgusting heap of c*** - if they haven't, they are just libtard idiots. If they *have*, and still didn't blink at handing it over, they're truly masochistic, *stupid* libtards.
What is also telling, is there seems to be no suggestion of reciprocity here: ie, these muslims don't seem to have handed over Torahs or Bibles, or have contributed to the building of a synagogue, or a church !
But perhaps I'm wrong, and they regularly contribute to the Friends of Israel ! sarc/off.
The only equivalent I can think of would be a Synagogue in 1930s Germany presenting a copy of 'Mein Kamp' to the Nazis and volunteering to foot the cost of a couple of canisters of Zyklon B.
Clowns!
"..it's a terrible act to burn a holy book."
Watch this lady explaining why we should never refer to the Koran as "holy".
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2011/05/unholy-koran.html
These are attitudes of the "Abrahamic faiths" of many of it's liberal and elitist adherants.
Now you know why in minds of many indian hindus they lump both the christians and muslims together as having common god and goals. They see the evidance of the USA's 40 years of friendship and alliance with muslim countries around the world specially with Porkiestan.
I know about "cardiac jews" (they're "Jews in their hearts), and "two day a year Jews" (Rosh Hashana and Yom Kippur), and "Seinfeld Jews", but "submarine jews" - Ha! That's a new one.
Is there no end of self-righteous useful idiots?
They aren't Jews.. they are bahai.. they just don't know it.
They might as well present their necks while they are at it.
It's baffling..
or you can call them hit and run jews!!!
The one so-called instance of "praise" of the personal characteristics of the Jews, i.e.,
isn't praise of their personal characteristics at all. It is instead a set-up for their condemnation by "Allah." It is saying that despite what Allah invested in them, they committed the worst crime of all, namely disbelief, for which Allah will judge them.
45:16 "And We did certainly give the Children of Israel the Scripture and judgement and prophethood, and We provided them with good things and preferred them over the worlds.
45:17 And We gave them clear proofs of the matter [of religion]. And they did not differ except after knowledge had come to them - out of jealous animosity between themselves. Indeed, your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that over which they used to differ."
Al-Jalalayn 45:17 "And We gave them clear illustrations of the commandment, the commandment of religion, in the way of what is lawful or unlawful, and the Mission of Muhammad (s), upon whom be the most excellent blessings and peace. And they did not differ, regarding his Mission, except after the knowledge had come to them, out of rivalry among themselves, that is to say, because of some rivalry that came about among them, out of envy of him. Surely your Lord will judge between them on the Day of Resurrection concerning that in which they used to differ."
Ibn Abbas 45:17 "...(through rivalry among themselves) because of resentful envy they refused to believe in Muhammad (pbuh) and the Qur'an...."
I'm truly saddened by this profound lack of self-respect displayed by members of the Toronto Jewish community. It is not necessary to malign Muslims, or to advocated the burning of Korans, in order to recognize there is a gulf between Muslims and Jewish communities. Individuals can be certainly be friends, and Jewish groups can opposed true injustices to Muslims. However, it is disrespectful of themselves, and even of the Muslims, to not recognize the theological gulf which has not been addressed.
Having said this, the situation is not as bad as it seems. The Jewish contributors appear to have been acting as individuals, and not as members of an organized Jewish group.
Bridges to Babylon
Who will rid us of the ‘bridge-building’ interfaith monkeys?
Rabbis Carolyn Braun, Susan Bulba Carvutto, David Freidenreich, Alice Goldfinger, Akiva Herzfeld, Hillel Katzir, Darah Lerner, William Leffler, Simeon Maslin, Larry Rubinstein and Steven Schwarzman
http://sheikyermami.com/2011/05/11/bridges-to-babylon/comment-page-1/#comment-395610
Dumb beyond words. But then, useful idiots often are responsible for causing the ordinary mind to temporarily suffer from stasis. As here.
These self-hating and degenerating Jews are feeding the foxes and wolves to guard their hen houses !
They must have drank the Kool-Aid and then brain-washed
by being forced to watch all he episodes of the CBC's "Little Mosque On The Prairie" where Muslims parachuted in to a small town to enlighten the ignorant oppressive white Christians that imposed their faith on the local Natives. But the CBC didn't produce the episode where those Peaceful muslim males plot to slaughter 1000's of civilians in Toronto via Truck-Bombs and then behead our primie Minister.
Oh wait.....when Muslims do Dawah in canada as part of their Crusade for an islamic State ruled by Shariah law....THAT is embraced as Tolerance and Multiculturalism .
The whole basis for Islam is that Muhammed managed to make it a retro-active faith to negate any previous or new faith and their followers. Then he adds a clause to kill those that mock or question his version of the Truth from God, then for the people born into the doctrine that actually read the really violent parts and want to find a Peaceful faith for themself....Muhammed built in the Apostate Clause to become an enemy of islam and allah to be killed .
Nice, and CAIR keeps a straight face while tell people that islam=Peace .
WTF!!! Will the insanity never end?! Don't these idiots know what the hell is and has been happening to their fellow Jews in Israel, Europe and throughout the Middle East? Since reading Robert's post, I've been racking my brain to remember at least one contemporary, equally suicidal jesture. Nothing comes to mind. If the ramifications of this latest culturally relativistic inspired bullshit didn't yank Western society even closer to melt-down status than it currently is, I'd say Dr. Houpt and the lot of them deserve what's inevitably coming to them. It won't be an invitation to a garden party. Turning the other cheek, under certain circumstances, is commendable. This, on the other hand, is like sharpening the executioner's axe, adjusting his hood and thanking him for his services before laying your head on the chopping block.
Similiar scene 70 years ago:
"Hey, Hyman, look at that sign: ARBEIT MACH FREI!
I guess that means if we work real hard for the Nazis, we'll make out okay!"
"Jeez, Schlomo, you must be right! If we're nice to the S.S., they'll be nice to us"
How Do say "The Death-To-The-Jews Peace Mosque" in Arabic?
What is fascinating about that list of supposed bad qualities of the Jews, as enumerated by that Jew-hating Muslim on 'Islam Online', is that as a description of Jews it's a pretty damn good description of the sharia-compliant jihad-minded Muslim.
In other words, the whole thing is a classic case of what psychologists call 'projection' and what others have dubbed 'turnspeak'.
Look at it.
1/ They used to fabricate things and falsely ascribe them to Allah. [substitute 'God' or YHWH for 'allah', here, and ...bingo! you've got the 'abrahamic faith' bait-and-switch tactic that has so neatly taken in these foolish Jews in Canada).
2/ They love to listen to lies.
The whole Muslim world is rotten with what Hugh Fitzgerald used to call 'nonsense and lies'.
3/ Disobeying Almighty Allah and never observing His commands.
Substitute YHWH for 'allah', and think of the Ten Commandments (especially the SEcond Table, 'thou shalt not steal', 'thou shalt not bear false witness', 'thou shalt not murder'...) and...yup...that's the Ummah, or Mohammedan Mob, lying, cheating, coveting, stealing, and kidnapping and raping the wives of non-Muslims (because they don't regard it as adultery if she's the wife of a non-Muslim, it's only adultery if she's a Muslim's wife).
4/ Disputing and quarreling.
CHECK. One Kurdish convert to Christianity said of Muslim society, "Among Muslims, you would always fight". Sufficient demonstrations of this in progress around the world at the moment, but especially in Iraq, Afghanistan, North Africa, Somalia...
5/ Hiding the truth and standing for misleading.
CHECK. Taqiyya, kitman, and all the rest of it. People of the Lie: that's the Ummah.
6/ . Staging rebellion against the Prophets and rejecting their guidance.
Turnspeak here: it's the Muslims who make up their own conveniently Muslim version of people like Abraham, Moses and Jesus, and pretty much ignore and indeed contradict what Abraham, Moses and Jesus actually taught as recorded in the TaNaKh and the Gospels.
7/ Hypocrisy.
Nuff said. We see it on display in the words and deeds of Muslims all around the world, every day.
8/ Giving preference to their own interests over the rulings of religion and the dictates of truth
It was David Hume who observed that expediency - whether something furthered Muslim self-interest - seemed to be the only governing principle in Mohammedanism.
9/ Wishing evil for people and trying to mislead them
CHECK. We see plenty of that on display from members of the Ummah.
10/ They feel pain to see others in happiness and are gleeful when others are afflicted with a calamity
CHECK. There were Mohammedans who crowed with glee upon witnessing death-dealing bushfires in Australia and tsunami in Japan...
11/ They are known of their arrogance and haughtiness.
I am instantly reminded of all those insufferable 'princes' of the Abominable House of Saud, keeping slaves behind closed doors, and prancing in the streets of London and Paris, wearing sneers of cold command (as Hugh Fitzgerald used to put it).
12/ Utilitarianism and opportunism are among their innate traits.
CHECK. See point 8, above.
13/ Their impoliteness and indecent way of speech is beyond description.
CHECK. As witnessed every day by the contents of Mr Spencer's Hate Mail Bag, and by certain Mohammedan dementors who have infested this forum from time to time.
14/ . It is easy for them to slay people and kill innocents. Nothing in the world is dear to their hearts than shedding blood and murdering human beings.
CHECK. See Beslan, Madrid, 9/11, the murder of the Fogel family, Mumbai, the genocide of the Armenians, the Biafra war, the murder of two million animists and Christians in southern Sudan and of deemed-inferior black Muslims in Darfur...and the list goes on
15/ They are merciless and heartless
CHECK. See list at point 14, above.
16/ They never keep their promises or fulfill their words.
CHECK. See the Treaty of Hudaybiyya and all subsequent 'agreements' made by Muslims with non-Muslims: written on toilet paper in disappearing ink.
17/ They rush hurriedly to sins and compete in transgression.
CHECK Fast Jihad. And all those yammering, screaming, vandalising, gang-raping, allahu-akbaring mobs, from Libya to Indonesia.
18/ Cowardice and their love for this worldly life are their undisputable traits.
CHECK. Exhibit A, Osama bin Laden, lurking in his luxury compound whilst sending out orders for suicide assassins to kill innocents.
19/ Miserliness runs deep in their hearts.
As witness the famous lack of generosity of the very rich Mohammedans, toward their suffering brethren after the 2004 tsunami, or the 2010 floods in Pakistan.
20/ Distorting Divine Revelation and Allah’s Sacred Books.
Well, distortion is a very mild description of what Mohammed did to certain persons and narratives from the TaNaKh and the Gospels. Malicious foe-fic is about the best way to put it.
The various Jewish useful idiots need to be sent copies of the following article which appeared in Jihadwatch in July 2008.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/07/im-muslim-and-hate-jews.html
Kevin Martin, Calgary Sun, July 24 2008.
‘Attacking a Jewish girl and the friends who came to her rescue has landed a Muslim man a one-year jail sentence.
'Mustafa Taj must also serve a year of probation following his release for what provincial court Judge Bill Cummings ruled was a racially motivated assault....(no, not racially motivated - **ideologically motivated** - dda)
'Taj, 21, was convicted in May of attacking four teenagers the night of Nov. 3, 2006, (it was, btw, a FRIDAY night - dda) while they waited for a C-Train at the Sunnyside LRT station.
'Taj approached the group around 10:45 p.m. and asked "who's Jewish." Nichola Cordato, then 16, stated "me" and Taj grabbed her and said, "I'm Muslim and hate Jews."
'He then slapped her in the face and pulled her hair before her friends, Jessica Motta, Kayla Hungle and Daniel Ball attempted to intervene.
'Hungle attempted to prevent Taj from further attacking Cordato and was punched in the face by him.
'Motta then intervened and was punched in the face, pulled to the ground by her hair and kicked in the stomach and ribs.
'When Ball tried to stop the assaults, he was thrown onto the C-Train tracks where he fell onto his back and was spat upon by Taj.
'During the melee, Taj called Cordato a "Jewish piece of (crap)."' END
Jessica, Kayla and Daniel get the Gharkad Tree award for trying to help their friend. They failed; but at least they tried.
Back when the article was first discussed at jihadwatch, I clicked on the link and read the rest (you won't find it now; the Calgary Sun link has broken) and I discovered that this particular Mohammedan had already gotten into trouble for attacking black non-Muslims.
At the time, I commented:
"This Muslim wannabe-jihadist and hater-of-kafir-just-like-the-Quran-says, has been up before the courts before.
"Why? For attacking a black man.
"Before sentencing, McCaffrey called evidence of a similar assault a year earlier in which Taj approached a black male at an LRT station and assaulted him.
"Keak Khor said Taj swore at him for being Sudanese and African before he and another man attacked him."
'Keak Khor was probably either a Christian or animist refugee from the Jihad. And we all know that many Arab and Arabised Muslims view blacks as slaves - abeed - and as inferior beings even if they are Muslim (evidence: the jihad by black Muslims who think they're Arab Muslims, against deemed-insufficiently-Islamic inferior [because non-Arab] black Muslims, in Darfur.
'So here is Taj swaggering about Canada following his Quranic supremacist bully programming, exhibiting 'enmity and hatred'; a year ago he and a mate were getting stuck into a black man; now he's attacked a Jewish girl. (Presumably on his own - there's no mention of him having anyone with him, this time).'
I decided to write this to Dr Dan Houpt care of his synagogue:
"Dear Dr Houpt
I hope this email will reach you.
I am Jewish and I live in the UK. I have just heard about your congegration's donation of a Koran, and money to build a mosque in Toronto.
I wanted to let you know how upset and let down I feel about this. You may believe that because I am not in Canada I have no right to offer an opinion. I beg to differ. Every act performed by any Jew anywhere impacts on every Jew everywhere. We are under the microscope worldwide more than ever, and Israel is under attack constantly by Muslims who believe in the teachings of the Koran, the very same words in the Koran you gave as a gift from your community. We should be standing with our non-Jewish neighbours to prevent the onslaught of Islamism at every turn, in order to keep our democratic traditions and values - and instead the actions of people like you alienate Jews from the indigenous populations in the countries they live in. It is no wonder we Jews are viewed as cowards and opportunists. I was told once that people like you have no hesitation in throwing others to the crocodiles in the hope that the crocodiles will not be hungry enough to eat them. I believe that, and I also believe you have set the goal of Jewish survival in an increasingly Muslim world back very considerably.
It is clear that either you are not aware of how Islam views Jews, or (more worryingly) you do know this, but believe your altruistic behaviour will change attitudes and give you more of a moral highground than those of us who know what Islam is, and what it intends for Jews worldwide, should its dream of a Caliphate come into fruition. I have studied Islam in depth - its motivations and what it believes to be its purpose in the world. It is an immutable religious and political entity, which is impervious to change. You could not be more wrong in your attitude and beliefs. Muslims must live by their Koran and what it teaches, word for word. They must emulate their prophet in behaviour and deed. Their prophet hated Jews and Christians, condoned and actually promoted their murder, and also taught that it was permissable to lie to non-Muslims in order for Muslims to reach their goal of dominance. You are being lied to. The offers of friendship and co-operation by Muslims in your initiative will hold as long as Islam does not have dominance. Once it does - and thanks to the efforts of people like you, it will, sooner rather than later - those Muslims who believe the words of their prophet will stand with their brothers, and all thoughts of co-operation with other faiths will stop.
I do not preach hatred of Muslims - but I do promote extreme wariness to say the least of Islam.
Your actions may seem right to you, but I believe they will endanger your own community, the wider community where you live, and ultimately Jews everywhere."
It was said that Yankee traders would sell you the rope to hang them with.
It seems that Toronto Jews have gone a step farther and given the Muslims the rope and the tree on which to hang it.
{^_^}
How birds of a feather find each other.
As sane, secular ideas spread in society, those who have lived their lives to protect - and die - for the faith, any faith now, will make and reveal their true bedfellows.
With religious texts of the three major faiths having the same fundamental basis, i.e., faith, and no anchor in reality, incredibly surprising collaborations can and will emerge as secular and reasoned ideas make progress.
I wouldn't put it past all three major religion's to "join hands" to try to make predictions and "prophecies" "come true" through fraud and deceit, just as "faith healing" is shown today on television.
Their goal, I see, in the next hundred years, no matter what happens is to preserve "God" i.e. preserve faith, i.e., preserve the irrational.
I do believe the reasons for their special hatred for the Jews is their rejection of Mohammed. Jews hurt his feelings by not accepting him as the "seal of the prophet" or some of them even ridiculed him as a mad man. Can't take rejection.
Hierarchically speaking, I put the leftists in academia, media, arts, etc., who are enamored with tyranny and go from one totalitarian ideology to another, letting others pay for their stupidity and not caring about what happens to real people trapped in the death cult. The list is LONG and certainly not just the Jews.
Islam can not tolerate or befriend any other religion. Not just the Jewish or the Christian religions but all other religions. Read this for yourself or listen to the clerics speak about the "kufirs".
Even the history books prove that Islam should not be trusted. Islams hatered has not changed over the past 1400 years. Even though all other religions and people have tried to befriend Islam it just wont happen.
If you read about other religions or faithfull groups you will find a commen likeness among all of them except one. I'll tell you what the commen likeness is then you tell me which group does not teach this likeness. "Treat others as you'd have others treat you".
So even if we would pay Islam a special daily tax. They could "never" except the kufir (non-Muslim) as a friend. Even if we treated Islam better than we treat any other nation, Islam could "never" be our companion in prayer.
What it will do is surrender your country, civil laws, and religion to Islam. Don't think so? Check your history books again.
After reading the Koran for the first time several years ago, I was struck by the "setup" you describe here.
It often confounds me that more people don't realize THE fundamental, cognitive flaw of the supposedly holy book.
IT IS FRIGGING PLAGIARIZED!
Even the simplest of minds can see that the Koran is an almost unreadable, obvious pile of linguistic garbage.
And we Christians are stuck with a highly embarrassing bunch of dhimmi Christians, too. I don't mean those living within the Islamic world where they have a noose round their necks and a scimitar at their throats; I mean the ones within the West who are grovelling to - or shilling for - Islam when they don't really *have* to. I'm in the Anglican communion, so although we do have brave truth-tellers like Patrick Sookhdeo (a non-residential canon in the Church of Pakistan, that is, the Pakistani branch of the Anglican church - he chose to be ordained within the church in Pakistan, presumably as an act of solidarity with the people his mother's Muslim ancestors doubtless persecuted), UK Bishop Michael Nazir-Ali, and Australian priest and scholar Rev Dr Mark Durie (author of "The Third Choice: Islam, Dhimmitude, and Freedom), we're *also* stuck with fools like the current Archbishop of Canterbury and any number of other idiots who've swallowed the 'interfaith snake oil' and 'three abrahamic faiths' nonsense peddled by the Muslim dawa artists. There was that idiot Episcopalian (i.e. American anglican) priest who claimed to be both a Muslim and a Christian, and that other guy who was going to pray the Muslim prayers during Lent...oh, the embarrassment.
And I gather, from the complaints I've heard from various Indian posters here, that way too many Hindus and secular folks and, alas, Christians in India are still totally dhimmified, either intimidated or deluded or deep in denial.
The beauty of a forum like this is that the *non*-dhimmi members of various groups can find and encourage each other. Each finds out that not *all* members of the other groups are dhimmified. Non-dhimmi Jews meet non-dhimmi Christians and non-dhimmi Hindus...and secular folks find out that not all non-Muslim religious folks think Muslims are superior to atheists because they [the Muslims] have a 'religion'.
And let's put it this way: any time any one of us does succeed in de-dhimmifying a co-religionist, the way in which the feat was achieved needs to be shared, in case it will work for someone else...
deebartok
as regards the Koran.
It's foe-fic. Badly written foe-fic on the Bible.
For those who don't know their teenspeak, to understand the term 'foe-fic' one must first understand the term 'fan-fic'. 'Fan-fic' is when people who like a book - say, Lord of the Rings, or the Harry Potter series, or for that matter, a Jane Austen novel - write stories of their own, either about what happened next to the characters, or filling out a minor character, or putting in back story. Usually it's pretty awful as literature, but meant well: people care about the characters and try to continue or fill out the story in a manner consistent with what the original author wrote. One could say, stretching things a bit, that the Aeneid is fanfic on Homer...
**Foe-fic**, on the other hand, is when someone who *hates* the original sets out to do a hostile and negative rewrite and/ or continuation of the story. To me, what the Koran does to various biblical characters and episodes - and bits and pieces from para-biblical or apocryphal Jewish and Christian material - reads like foe-fic. It isn't just that the material or the characters have been ripped off. They've been *changed*. And the *nature* of the changes that are made is too consistent, and too destructive of the meaning of the original, to be the result of simple ignorance or happenstance.
Think, for example, about the fact that Muslims claim A. that 'Ibrahim' offered Ishmael, not Isaac and that B. Jesus never died on the cross.
Those are not innocent misunderstandings, they are actively hostile rewritings, massive Big Lies, aimed deliberately at the core of Judaism and the core of Christianity.
To quote Winston Churchill:
" AN APPEASER IS ONE WHO FEEDS A CROCODILE, HOPING IT WILL EAT HIM LAST."
Yes. To what you refer, the plagiarism and "change"
Firstly...
I was deeply struck, one day in Puertecitos, when I encountered all of this (the weird notion of an impostor on the cross, the sickening supremacy and subterfuge resident in such a vile contention) in a day - long reading of Hadith.
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But what do you mean by "change". Please elaborate. I do not understand...
"They've been *changed*. And the *nature* of the changes that are made is too consistent, and too destructive of the meaning of the original, to be the result of simple ignorance or happenstance."
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You mean of course, the Bible, and Torah to be changed, no?
But plagiarism is complete SUBSTITUTION, no, for the original article?
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Please elaborate, DDA. Cheers from Baja, still. Sunny, though today.
Re. changes, and the nature of the changes - here's Jacques Ellul, in Les trois piliers du conformisme, talking about what the Quran does with the figure of Jesus.
The essay has not been officially translated - the translation is my own:
"...let us note a detail that shows, well enough, misunderstanding {or, I would argue, a deliberate rewriting - dda}: the Koran does not mention any of the miracles reported by the Gospels.
'By contrast, it attributes to Jesus three miracles.
'The first: while ‘the child was still in the mother’, he undertook a discourse partly mystical, partly theological;
'the second is a miracle not reported by the Gospels, concerning the infancy of Jesus, making little birds in clay, and breathing on them, which made them alive; {note - this incident was taken from the apocryphal 'gospels' - dda}
'the third, which by the way gives the title to the Surah which relates it, is that of the ‘laid Table’.
'[according to the Koran] Some people come to say to Jesus: we will belong to you if you make a table come down from heaven, full of delicious foods…and Jesus raises his hands and the table comes down from heaven.
'**This shows much more than a difference of stories! It is a fundamental difference of understanding.** {my emphasis - dda}.
' Indeed, in the Gospels ALL the miracles of Jesus are the miracles of love. Even those where he shows a ‘power’. For example, in the ‘stilling of the storm’, he responds to the fear of his disciples; he does the miracle to give back to them peace and confidence.
'**But the miracles reported in the Koran are exclusively miracles of power.** {my emphasis - dda}
'[They are] miracles that signify nothing except power: and this signifies well the difference of perspective within which the person of Jesus is placed, in the one and the other of these texts (Bible and Koran).
'One must, moreover, take note of a contradiction that confirms this: at the time of the ‘set Table’, someone says to Jesus, ‘we will believe in you, if you do this miracle’. And Jesus does it.
'**But in the gospel, precisely, every time someone proposes a miracle as a kind of proof, he refuses it, and even more so if someone says that they will believe in him, if…This is exactly what Jesus does not want.** {my emphasis - dda}. He is, and he acts, in a person to person relation, not in a magical operation."
End quote from Ellul.
Do you see what I'm getting at, now?
I have a cynical mind. I *bet* that whoever wrote the Quran probably knew the story of the feeding of the 5000. But he (or they) makes up an entirely different story which teaches the exact reverse of what the Gospel story teaches.
Yes, one could say baldly that both the gospel and the Quran say 'Jesus miraculously provided food'.
But beyond that...what the Gospel story reveals, and what the Quran story claims, are polar opposites.