Again, what better subterfuge is there than to accuse your enemy of what you yourself have engaged in for years? And the fabricated stories of Muslim women (or alleged converts to Islam) being abducted by Christians in Egypt have indeed provided a handy cover for a new string of disappearances.
Abductions of Christian girls are nothing new, as Coptic Pope Shenouda III observed even in 1976 that "there is a practice to convert Coptic girls to embrace Islam and marry them under terror to Muslim husbands." And our own archives are full of over seven years of such reports. Meanwhile, the world looks the other way, or now pleads, "but, but... Tahrir Square!"
Wishful thinking in Western think tanks and governments won't un-abduct these girls and women. As Islamic groups -- "Salafis" and others -- are emboldened by the lack of challenges they have encountered in the wake of the revolution, there will only be more stories like this. "No Going Back for Egypt's Converted Copts," by Angela Shanahan for The Australian, May 20:
Amid the upheavals in Egypt since January, reports have begun to emerge of a surge in disappearances of Coptic girls.
One priest in Cairo estimates that at least 21 young girls, many as young as 14, have disappeared from his parish alone.
In most cases, when a Christian girl who disappears is found by her family, she has been converted to Islam and married. The Coptic authorities, have even set up a series of refuges in monasteries to handle the growing numbers of girls who wish to return to their families, many of whom are not accepted by their family of origin.
But a worse problem for these women is that their conversion to Islam is irreversible.
It is worth noting that this is a refreshingly frank report.
Religion is stated on Egyptian ID documents and even though secular law provides for reversions, under the growth of sharia they are very difficult, except for those affording legal advocacy.
This situation is not unique to Egypt. There have been consistent reports of girls being coerced into Islamic conversion and marriage in India, Pakistan, and Sri Lanka.
That many of these girls are initially runaways is not in doubt. However, there is also evidence that a huge number are converted and married against their will.
The situation was documented in a controversial report published in 2009 on conversion and forced marriage of Coptic women by Washington DC-based Christian Solidarity International. The authors are Washington academic Michele Clark and Egyptian Coptic broadcast journalist Nadia Ghaly, based in Melbourne.
Between 2005 and 2008 they interviewed and documented 50 Egyptian women, mostly aged between 14 and 25, who had decided to return to their families. All claim to have been tricked, coerced or raped, converted to Islam and married. Most of the interviewees were trying to reconvert to their Christian identity, with limited or no success. The report's conclusions were printed in several major publications, including Forbes magazine.
Since the so-called Arab Spring, and the ensuing riots at Christian churches, the authors are trying to bring the subject of forced conversion and marriage to greater prominence.
Riots by Muslims. Christians aren't being sent out into the street enraged by Sunday's homily.
Both groups live extremely closed, highly traditional separate lives and the norms surrounding marriage and sex are almost medieval, says Ghaly.
So, for example, it is not unheard of for a young Christian girl from a poor family to run away from an arranged marriage. Yet a high proportion of these women claim coercion, even rape, despite the shame that such a claim will cause if the girl wishes to return.
Many claim they were kept as virtual slaves. Others who were able to leave could not bring their children. Ghaly claims this is more than overt religious oppression, and amounts to "a form of cultural genocide".
She cites a document published by Human Rights Watch in November 2007, which says that even if Coptic women can obtain a divorce from their Muslim husband, those who wish to return to Christianity "meet with refusal and harassment from the Civil Status Department of the Ministry of Interior".
Under sharia law, reconversion is considered apostasy punishable by death.
Cultural baggage? The innovation of modern "extremists?" No. That comes from Muhammad's own orders.
Cultural baggage?
Naw... nothing of the sort...
Islamic theology is rotten to the core due to Muhammad's words and behavior...
"But a worse problem for these women is that their conversion to Islam is irreversible."
A true Roach Motel religion -- you can check, in but you can't check out.
Muslims will always fail to see the "bad parts" of Muhammad's religion
Hey, people, this is the righteous indignation of the long-oppressed Muslim masses rising up to vindicate the honor of their cherished beliefs and customs. This is the new democracy at work in the Middle East! Would you dare to disagree with the combined wisdom of Samantha Power, Billary Clinton, and Barry Hussein 'Bama?
Sarcasm off.
Respectfully, my friend to the north, what are the "good parts" of the Islamic faith? Heaps of bad as I see it and not much good at all.
Well, I've put it another way here at JW from time to time and here it is: There is much rot in Islam which cannot be found anywhere else and any good in Islam can be found in numerous other religions and ethical systems. So why Islam?
You know Islam sucks. I know Islam sucks. So why doesn't most everyone by now? Hope you are well, Saleem.
I too am well, Wells. Cheers to you as well My Brother...
There are many good points to be found within Islam...
Much like any other religious cult...
Muhammad is the personification of evil. Was he not?
Yep, no doubt about it, Saleem, Mohammed was a malevolent individual---but very clever. Mankind is still a victim of that cleverness.
Well put, Wells, certainly...
Many claim they were kept as virtual slaves. Others who were able to leave could not bring their children. Ghaly claims this is more than overt religious oppression, and amounts to "a form of cultural genocide".
................................
And why is this? Because the children are considered the property of these girls' rapist "husbands". Even if the girl hasn't been forced to convert, any children of a Christian girl and a Muslim man are automatically *considered Muslim*.
So, rape accomplishes several things—it is meant to "humiliate" the girl and convince her to that "marriage" to her rapist is the only way for her to avoid even more shame.
And then, it takes advantage of the love for their children and desire to protect them that almost all women have—even for children conceived through rape.
Most of these girls, of course, never have a chance to escape at all. Even for those who do, though—what if the price is leaving their children? As horrific as living with your rapist must be, the prospect of leaving your children completely unprotected with him must be even worse.
Once again, Muslims take advantage of some of the best qualities of their victims.
God, I hate Islam.
On the topic of Muslims abducting, enslaving, raping, torturing, mutilating, terrorising, and or outright murdering women with impunity, has anyone heard recently from or even about Molly Norris?
OT but nevertheless very important. Why is America letting in 225,000 green card holders every thirty days. This is the height of madness.
"We’re talking 15 million unemployed and another seven million underemployed according to Roy Beck. All the while, Congress pumps a whopping 225,000 green card holders into our country every 30 days. If you only add 100,000 jobs per month, but you pump another 225,000 workers into the country every 30 days, tell me how we will ever reach full employment of Americans. Answer: we won’t!"
There is more at this site:
http://www.newswithviews.com/Wooldridge/frosty663.htm
When I first heard of this phenomena some time ago I was very sceptical. Particularly because The Enemy Is After Our Women is such an effective and popular theme in propoganda.
HOWEVER there are a few elements lightly touched on in this story that contributed to the wearing down of that skepticism and so should be focused upon more in future discussions of this and in discussions with the as yet unconvinced.
1) It happens in multiple countries. Egypt, Pakistan, India and Shri Lanka are mentioned. Does it happen in other countries as well? I've heard first hand reports in comments made by people claiming they have seen this phenomena in England though seduction is used instead of abduction (I'm not talking about those repulsive pakistani grooming gangs).
(this makes me wonder if this activity is mentioned in the Koran, Hadith, Sira or histories that would be known to islamic scholars in those countries. If so then it should be exposed to a wider audience or brought up in future articles. Also- how far back can be found reports of this sort of thing?)
2) The report cited in the article is by Christian Solidarity International. They work to free slaves in the sudan by buying their freedom from their masters with Cow Vaccine. The report is far more detailed than this article and has many interviews with abductees and several citations (many from the US State Department) that are also worth reading so I highly reccomend everyone here to read it. Here's where the CSI report cited in the story can be accessed.
http://www.csi-int.org/archives.php?inhId=1257798299&bstFam=2&arc=1&sId=01305952970&sucHL=abduction&sucJahr=0
3) The CSI article cites a Human Rights Watch report (“Prohibited Identities: State Interference with Religious Freedom”. November 2007 Volume 19, No. 7) on the issue.
That report can be accessed here: http://www.hrw.org/en/reports/2007/11/11/prohibited-identities
I hope this was more helpfull then pedantic.
"The Coptic authorities, have even set up a series of refuges in monasteries"
Look around at Muslim internet sites or Facebook, and you find that the monasteries are places of imprisonment, torture and brainwashing. This taking place next to rooms no doubt filled with weapons and explosives, and everyone preparing to grap power by force and violence.
I have yet to see a mainstream Muslim conspiracy claiming in all seriousness that young Muslim women are being abducted by Christians, but this matter of the alleged ex-Christian women being forcibly re-conditioned is the nearest thing to the usual projection.
Some Copts - the Aussie ABC report says 'hundreds', but I wonder whether it was more - held a protest rally in Sydney's Martin Place today, in the heart of the Central Business District of Australia's largest city.
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/05/21/3223228.htm?section=justin
They are calling upon Australia's Federal Government to accept Copts from Egypt as refugees.
I second that call, and I ask all Australian jihadwatchers, posters and lurkers, who feel and think similarly, to contact our Immigration Minister, Chris Bowen, at once.
I will add that a rally was also planned to be held in Melbourne but was cancelled due to 'security fears'. From a report that appeared before the rally in Sydney:
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/coptics-gather-to-protest-against-cairo-violence/story-e6frg6nf-1226059923715
"Originally the Coptic congregation in Melbourne was to gather outside the Melbourne Museum, which is holding the Tutankhamun exhibition, but this was cancelled due to concerns from the museum's curators."
Now, does anybody here think that those Copts gathering in Melbourne would ever
have rioted and attacked those who were going to see an exhibition of the marvellous artefacts created by the Copts' own long-ago ancestors, or that they would in any way have sought to harm that exhibition?
Of course not.
I would **bet** my bottom dollar that the Melbourne Museum was terrified that letting the Copts protest (about Muslim cruelty to Copts in Egypt) anywhere near the Museum might provoke the Muslims. It might have brought down the wrath of the Muslim mob, or at least of individual Muslim jihad terror raiders, upon the Museum.
Another example of the majority Muslims reaping the rewards from the fear of their violence-prone brethren, all the while they are throwing out their arms in hurt confusion and genuinely declining all responsibility: "we are shocked, this has nothing to do with us".
Steffen,
I'm happy you brought the mainstream Muslim sites into the picture.
From what I see, sites like LoonWatch highlight stories like Christian converts to Islam being killed by their families. LoonWatch is trying to make the claim, as usual, that individual instances are cherry-picked and the Muslim coercion is not substantially different from Christian intolerance, using the standard of individual instances.
The fact is that right now, in the US, we don't see these types of abuses, partly because the Muslims are still a small part of the population and have to watch their stem, and partly because the US still has a strong, impartial, law-enforcement capability, and the Muslims have to watch their step.
Also, in my opinion, the Muslims who have been in the US for several generations are genuinely opposed to such actions, although they are in denial that these actions stem from Islamic culture and theology in other countries.
The strongest argument that can be made is that these abuses are highly correlated with Muslim societies.