Indonesia's Islamic Defenders Front to hold mass prayer service to "express gratitude to the late martyr Sheikh Osama bin Laden"

I'm sure the big 0 will play this like his BC...why release it when a good conspiracy keeps his name floating or maybe he'll release them around Nov 6, 2012. The mere fact that he actually gets a jump in polls is ridiculous enough. This country is truly doomed and I don't mean by the hand of muslims.

"morristhewise" wrote:

There was no reason to kill Osama except to silence him.
............................

What crap. Osama bin Laden is responsible for the deaths of over three thousand Americans in several vicious Jihad attacks culminating in the horror of 9/11.

You can try to imply that this had to do—somehow—with some sort of amorphous Western malfeasance, but that is all b*llsh*t.

The evil was his own, and that of the filthy creed he followed.

Especiallly since it appears he had to be kicking and screaming to call for the operation, and may have only been told after it finally started. He looked ticked in the briefing room. Maybe he wanted to wait until november of next year. Oh well don't show the evidence of Osama's death and bury the body at sea make him essentially an immortal wandering the Islamic wilderness giving care comfort and strength to the enemy. If he releases the photos later people will just say they are frauds, especialy given the evident doctoring of a released birth certificate.

Since Afikomen didn't read my last comment on the other post, I'd like to repost my reply to him. I'm pretty sure this arrogant Malay supremacist hasn't learned how to keep his mouth in line.
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There are thousands of Hui in Taiwan, in addition to Thailand, Burma, and China. Do not think that because we house Indonesian illegal immigrant migrant workers that you indons/malayoids are allowed to stay, Taiwan isn't the EU we don't recognize your "rights".

Do not think that Hui people don't hold positions of power, you fool. General Bai Chongxi was defense minister of the Republic of China, and Qinghai, Gansu, and Ningxia were all ruled by Muslim Military Governors, Ma Bufang, Ma Buqing, Ma Hongbin and Ma Hongkui.

Their entire armies were made out of hundreds of THOUSANDS of hui troops.

General Ma Buqing continued to work in the Republic of China army in Taiwan until the 70's and so did his son.

The Uyghurs, Tibetans, Soviets, White Russians, Mongols, the Communists, and the westerners (in the boxer rebellion) all learned what it was like to be on the receiving end of a thrashing given by Hui troops in the Chinese army. Malays and Indons are just known to be slaves to colonial powers, and before that, tributaries to Ming dynasty China.

The Malay sultanates, including Malacca, paid tribute to the Ming dynasty and acknowledged they were slaves to the Emperor. They regularly sent tribute missions and asked the Ming dynasty to save their city when it was being attacked, once an entire tribute mission of Malays were captured by Vietnamese, and the Viets castrated them and sold them as slaves, the Malays complained about it to the Emperor years later, who told them to shut up since the incident happened years before.

There is a community of Utsuls on Hainan island, descended from cham (related to malay) refugees from south vietnam, they paid tribute to the Emperor and beged for help from China.

You are the one who doesn't know a sack of **** about China or Taiwan. you claimed only a few "hundred" Hui live in Taiwan. WRONG. There are several thousand. There are multiple mosques. Many hui served in the Republic of China Army as Generals, like Bai Chongxi and Ma Chengxiang. They lived in Taiwan too.

There is a big mosque in Chiang Mai run by Hui people- มัสยิดบ้านฮ่อ

You claim that there were few Hui in thailand.

You don't know anything about Taiwan, China, or Hui people at all, so I'd advise you to STUFF whatever you want to say back into your Indo Malayoid mouth

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Imam Ma Chao-yen in Taiwan personally wrote this paper-

"As Muslim in Taiwan, we wish to become the bridge between Islam and Chinese culture. By working together of Confucius believe in world peace with Islam’s belief in social equality and justice, Islam will be the foundation for human civilization and peaceful society."

http://www.csict.nccu.edu.tw/active/Ma_Cao-yen_paper.doc
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A few webpages on Hui people in taiwan since you are so ignorant. THOUSANDS of hui live on taiwan, not hundreds like you claimed.

http://www.gio.gov.tw/taiwan-website/5-gp/yearbook/2002/chpt25-7.htm
http://www.saudiaramcoworld.com/issue/197004/islam.in.taiwan.htm

You don't know anything about Taiwan, china, or Hui people. Your english is mediocre, and your attitude immature. You defend the racist Malay constitution, ketuanan melayu Malay Supremacy, and insist Malays are not responsible for violence in thailand or southeast Asia.
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The Malaysian constitution has "ketuanan melayu" (malay supremacy) written into it by law, so that malays get more priveleges than anyone else.

Malays like Syed Jaafar Albar are descended from Yemeni arabs in the paternal line, tons of them settled in Malaysia and married Malay women.

However, Syed Jaafar believed fully in the doctrine of ethnic "malay supremacy", saying "Wherever I am, I am a Malay", talking about "Malay racial supremacy", and claiming Malays are "masters" of Malaysia.

He did not say "Islamic supremacy", he did not say "muslim supremacy", he said Malay supremacy.
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There is a big racial problem. all indonesians, muslims or not, are racists. The dayaks are mostly not muslim, but they were encouraged by the indonesian army to riot against ethnic chinese several times, and the Javanese in indonesia did so as well, but not for religious reasons, its due to RACIAL tensions.

quote from website on anti chinese riots

http://library.thinkquest.org/26477/indon2.htm

Chinese in Indonesia said that Indonesians hated them because they were Chinese, never said ANYTHING about Islam-

"I'm Chinese, but I've been living in Indonesia, so I'm Indonesian," she said. "Maybe that's how people think -- that I'm Chinese, even though I'm an Indonesian citizen. But they don't know how long my family has been here."

"Tan, who is 37, was huddled inside the furniture store with her husband and three teenage children. As attackers banged on the shutters shouting "Kill the Chinese!" the store's workers gave the family a sign when it was safe to run."

_________________________________________________________

I didn't see the Indons saying, "Kill the Kuffar!", I see them say, "Kill the Chinese!"

Chinese language, chinese character, chinese names were all ban by Indonesian, but indonesian alphabet (western latin alphabet), bahasa indonesia, indonesian names, all have nothing to do with Islam...

Indonesians hate chinese writing and even used ridiculous evidence to accuse chinese of doing something (like chinese characters were found next to a dead indonesian's bodies, so they blame chinese for the killing)

Malays and Indonesians are RACIST.

NON muslim Indonesian dayaks attacking ethnic chinese- somehow Afikomen managed to twist these incidents and magically turned the Dayaks into muslims. Its well known that Indonesians were yelling anti chinese slurs and only targeted ethnic chinese during the riots, nothing to do with Islam.

It was Chinese who promoted Islam in Java and other Islands. Look up Zheng He's voyages. He built mosques and send tons of chinese muslims to settle in indonesia. The Sultans in malaysia and indonesia paid tribute to the Chinese Emperor and asked for titles from him.

http://210.0.141.99/eng/malaysia/ChineseMuslim_in_Malaysia.asp

http://www.islamhk.com/en/?p=12&a=view&r=43

http://www.islam.org.hk/en/?p=12&a=view&r=43

The Ming Emperor commanded Zheng He to collect tribute and bestowed titles like King on the Sultans, even engaging in military operations to back them up, to bring them into the Chinese political system, the sultan then paid tribute for political support.

The only reason the sultans and islam was maintained in malaysia and Indonesia was because of Chinese, you should be thanking us for propping up the sultanates and spreading islam and mosques- instead what came out is Dirty Malay racism and supremacy from people like Hishammuddin Hussein.

Ma Huan wrote there were lots of chinese muslims and mosque communities being sent by Chinese to Malaysia and Indonesia, and Islam was proslytized to the locals.

If we had continued on with that, you Malays and Indonesians would be Hanafi instead of Shafi, since all of Islam in China is Hanafi.

Your Malay supremacists and Racists like Syed Jaafar Albar and Hishammuddin should thank China for helping support Malaysian and indonesian Islam for over 200 years during the Ming dynasty.

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And I know and have Han chinese friends from Malaysia and Indonesia who used to have seriously misconceived ideas about Islam because of you Malays.

Since you associate being a muslim with "masuk melayu" (becoming a malay), alot of them are put off by converting since they don't want to be called ethnic malays or see themselves as malays, and think all other muslims like that.

The worst nightmare for Malaysian Chinese parents if their daughter or Son wanted to marry a Malay, they have to "masuk melayu" since you attach it to conversion.

And anyway, they don't like you guys so they hate it if their kids want to marry malays at all.

I am happy to say that I cured them of their Islamophobia, in Arab countries there aren't stupid racist rules like Malaysia associating muslim with being Malay, they understand now they Malays have some colonial inferiority complex from being colonized by Britain, which led them to project these rules on non Malays in Malaysia to take their anger out on them and seem superior.

In arab countries, a muslim is free to be his on ethnicity, he isn't forced to become "arab". In malaysia, a muslim is forced to be a malay.

Now they don't see Islam in a different light than other religions.

Syed Hussein Alatas was born in Indonesia.

He had an ARAB Grandfather, and was one of the most tolerant people in Malaysia. He formed the Gerakan Rakyat party along with non muslim Chinese, most of the membership was Chinese, and the party's goals were to eliminate the "priveleges" for Malays in Article 153 of the constitution.

He appointed Chinese and Indian academics, and did not subscribe to Malay racism, and was a secularlist.

he also wrote "The Myth of the Lazy Native", in which he criticized European colonialists for claiming southeast asian natives were lazy, he also critized Mahathir Mohamed, the racist, Malay supremacist PM in the book.

(mahathir mohammed has indian ancestry through his father)

The only other Malay person who believe in toleration and equality for Chinese and Indians was Deputy Prime Minister Tun Ismail Abdul Rahman, who was descended from a Chinese grandfather Haji Mohamed Salleh bin Abdullah who converted to islam and married a malay woman.

http://www.sun2surf.com/article.cfm?id=16726
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breakdown of Malay politicians ancestry

Haji Mohamed Salleh bin Abdullah- Chinese grandfather

Syed Hussein Alatas- Arab Grandfather

Mahathir Mohammad (Indian ancestry through father) RACIST

Hishammuddin Hussein (Turkish great grandmother) RACIST

Syed Jaafar Albar- racist- Arab great grandgrandfather, but constantly denies he has foriegn ancestry, claimed he was "pure" malay and he politically attacked Chinese, urging for protection of malay "racial purity"
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We are proud that Chinese promoted Islam in Indonesia-
the non muslim Dayak men pierce their genitalia with ampallang, all of southeast asian men were mutilating their genitalia with percings, before Islam came, then they stoppted when they became muslim.

and western accounts of Dayak headhunting said they did not get most of their heads in battle- they sneaked up on innocent women or children and chopped the head off, aiming at the weakest person.

When they converted to Islam, they stopped these nasty genital mutilation and headhunting practices.
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And even some non muslim Han chinese in Malaysia are descended from muslim Arab ancestors, the Guo and Ding families, which have branches in both Taiwan and China, also have branchs in Malaysia, the name "Ding" came from the arabic surname "al-din", i believe the Guo's are desecnded from a persian, i'm not sure, and the surname "Ma" is from "Muhammad"

In china, in the 50's, they demanded that the communist regime register them as Hui, even though they regarded as han chinese and were buddhist, daoist, since they were assimilated, a few branches became christian.

However, Mao rejected their claims.

later in the 70's, they applied again, and got what they wanted- now "hui" is written on their identity cards and papers

In mainland China now they receive extra benefits for minorities since they put hui in their papers, but in the 50's there weren't any extra benefits when they started demanding it. They keep family geneaological books recording an arab or persian anestor, and have tombs of these ancestors and shrines. Sometimes they don't eat pork while mourning or offering food during daoist rituals, or have an inherited qur'an, but they are not muslim.

but They are proud of their ancestry and not islamophobic

In taiwan there is several villages who have these family, as well as malaysia

And Singapore has one of the lowest birthrates in the world, as do Chinese from Malaysia and Indonesia- the more they westernize, the more the birthrate shrinks.

most don't have a religion, they aren't really buddhist or daoist, their mentality is hedonist- save as much money as possible and they don't want to bother spending it to raise kids.

I've personlly talked some Taiwanese girls who had abortions- virtually none of them want any children at all. I know the size of Taiwanese families from experience (that is MY cultural background)- either zero or one child is the trend, as it is in singapore and chinese in malaysia.

we have different cultures- back then, not only us, but in all Chinese, taiwan, or in china, in traditional culture, we never say "I love xxx(insert whatever)". "I love" in chinese, has a distinctly innapropiate sexual connotation" Its not part of our culture to say "I love", whether muslim, daoist, or anything else. Their parents would beat them. Now, westernized teenagers like saying that and there are all sorts of problems, premartial sex, abortion, plaguing Taiwan today.

And there is no restrictions on religion In Taiwan, yet the percentage of christians in Taiwan is lower than mainland china.

One of the reasons that the number of muslims is so low in China and Taiwan is that we don't proselytize, and we don't want to. In Britian, your "dawah artists" in reality, nutcase provacatours, like Choudary openly call for people to convert and threaten them.

in China, go ask any han chinese if they were asked to convert to Islam by hui- they will say NO. The only case when this happens is in marriage, we don't go out on the streets harassing people to death for the sake of conversion, not in China or Taiwan.

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2006/may/32.45.html

"According to official government statistics, only 3.9 percent of the 22.9 million people on this island are Christian. But various mission organizations have estimated that among Taiwan's working class, which composes 61.7 percent of Taiwan's population, less than 0.5 percent are Christian. As a result, Operation World (2001) says, Taiwan has "the only Han Chinese population in the world where the spiritual breakthrough has yet to come.""

http://www.taiwanchurch.org/

"Did You Know? Taiwan has a fewer percentage of Christians than China: Taiwan (2-3%), China (6-8% and growing fast)."
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http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/001713.html

"On Taiwan, abortions have skewed the island's demographics to the point that only two girls are born for every three boys"
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And this is why a sex trade in "mail order brides" and prostitutes from the Vietnam and Philipinnes are emerging In Taiwan- the perception is that since they are from third world countries, they act as the inferior to the husband.
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We have our own bond of trust between all Chinese in Taiwan, muslim or non muslim, we don't need westerners to tell us what to think.

Salahuddin Ma Chao-yen from the Grand mosque in Taiwan writes about Islam here in English- Islam is not arab imperialism, no one is taught to pretend to be arab or hate chinese culture, Ma praises Confucius.

www.csict.nccu.edu.tw/active/Ma_Cao-yen_paper.doc

He specifically warns against importing western culture under the guise of "modernization"- to us this means abort all our babies, have no children

"With the ending of the cold war, under the banner of globalization and freedom, the West, led by the US and Europe, wishes to impose its culture, and social and economic systems on other countries, Muslim countries in particular. Modernization has become the excuse to overturn the tradition. The objective is for the West to control and monopolize the world resources. We need to understand that modernization is objective and relevant, and should not be defined purely based on scientific and economic achievements. Traditional value can be modified, and should not be denied and overturned. In the 21st century, with the advance in science and technology, and rapid changes in the social and economic development, a minority often faces the challenges of preserving its culture and tradition and at the same time copes with the rapid technology innovation and social economic development. History offers the best clue. From the study of the history, we can understand the situation of Muslim in Taiwan and assist them to overcome their difficulties."

"In the future, we may consider center for Islam, provide teacher trainings, and create a common market to promote the modernization of worldwide Muslim. As Muslim in Taiwan, we wish to become the bridge between Islam and Chinese culture. By working together of Confucius believe in world peace with Islam’s belief in social equality and justice, Islam will be the foundation for human civilization and peaceful society."

you made a comment on another article on indonesia-

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/raymond-ibrahim-islams-christian-scapegoats.html#comment-784884

"Are the murdered Chinese Christians of 1960s Indonesia merely getting what they, as Christians, deserved to suffer?"

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Those chinese "christians", first of all, were mostly buddhist and daoist, on borneo, and secondly, they were not killed by muslims, they were killed by CHRISTIAN dayaks!

Dayaks are non muslim to the bone- the indonesian military, allied with the American CIA, encouraged them to massacre ethnic chinese in Borneo, due to alleged "communist" connections, when in fact most Chinese in indonesia are merchants and traders, which communism is against. but the CIA just helped the Indons and took their word that they were just crushin and beheadin commies in kalimantan province.

Non muslim Dayaks in Borneo, indonesia, with assitance from the indonesian army, went on rampages against ethnic Chinese numerous times in the 60's.

http://www.google.fr/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=In+1967%2C+Dayaks+had+expelled+Chinese+from+the+interior+of+West+Kalimantan.+In+this+Chinese+ethnic+cleansing%2C+Dayaks+were+coopted+by+the+military+who+wanted+to+remove+those+Chinese

"In 1967, Dayaks had expelled Chinese from the interior of West Kalimantan. In this Chinese ethnic cleansing, Dayaks were coopted by the military who wanted to remove those Chinese from the interior"

http://www.google.fr/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=In+1967%2C+Dayaks+had+expelled+Chinese+from+the+interior+of+West+Kalimantan.+In+this+Chinese+ethnic+cleansing%2C+Dayaks+were+coopted+by+the+military+who+wanted+to+remove+those+Chinese#sclient=psy&hl=fr&tbo=1&biw=975&bih=628&tbm=bks&source=hp&q=dayak+killed+chinese+indonesian+military+slaughter+ethnic+chinese&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=2e64fb3b9237506b

"In October 1967, the military, with the help of the former Dayak Governor Oevaang Oeray and his Lasykar Pangsuma (Pangsuma Militia) instigated and facilitated a Dayak-led slaughter of ethnic Chinese. Over the next three months"

"Before the Indonesian armv could cool off the Dayaks, at east 250 Chinese had been slaughtered: Catholic missionaries believe that as ^nyas 1000 were actually killed."

"There was a dark chapter in recent Dayak history, and it concerned the Chinese living on the island. Tribes in the lower hills had been mobilized by the Indonesian military in the mid-sixties to murder many thousands of Chinese "

http://www.google.fr/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=indonesia+CIA+1960%27s+chinese&btnG=Chercher+des+livres#sclient=psy&hl=fr&tbo=1&tbm=bks&source=hp&q=indonesia+CIA+1960%27s+massacre+chinese&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=2e64fb3b9237506b

"was the CIA that stood behind the massacre of as many as a million people when Sukarno was overthrown in Indonesia "

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They attacked Chinese in the 60's, and they also attacked Muslim Madurese and some Dayaks ran around waving Madurese heads in front of cameras and foreigners, some sick dayak pervert girls even participated.

These are *christian Dayak with the severed head of a muslim Madurese child

http://www.fica.org/hr/ambon/ambon1/Sanggauledo2.jpg

http://www.fica.org/hr/ambon/ambon1/Sanggauledo1.jpg

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You are confused on Indonesia's situation. They are not anti non muslim, they are anti CHINESE. The indonesians banned chinese language from being used and characters from being displayed. This has NOTHING to do with islam, since bahasa indonesia (their language), and the latin alphabet that the indonesians use isn't any more islamic than chinese language or characters.

They also banned chinese names- yet indonesian names used by Indons like Suharto and Sutanto aren't "more" islamic than chinese names. The indonesian names aren't derived from arabic- they are the same names that their non muslim ancestors used.

the 1960's massacred happened when Suharto overthrew Sutanto, and Suharto, being an anti communist, decided to convineintly massacre the chinese community with the help of christian dayaks, even though most Chinese in indonesian were merchants, hardly communist material.

the american CIA aided Suharto due to his anti communism

correct link-

http://www.csict.nccu.edu.tw/active/Ma_Cao-yen_paper.doc

while you're at it, why not reply to these points you conveniently ignored

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/pakistan-shocked----shocked----at-accusations-it-was-lax-or-worse-on-bin-laden-pursuit.html#comment-785934

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/pakistan-shocked----shocked----at-accusations-it-was-lax-or-worse-on-bin-laden-pursuit.html#comment-785929

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/pakistan-shocked----shocked----at-accusations-it-was-lax-or-worse-on-bin-laden-pursuit.html#comment-785930