Projection, from someone who wants to see Islamic law imposed upon Malaysia in full force. This, by the way, is the same legislator who threatened Christians that they were trying the patience of Muslims by making "excessive demands" for things like Malay-language Bibles (which would then use the Malay-language word for "God," which is the Arabic loan-word "Allah"). He's also the hopeless romantic who blamed bad Muslim wives for husbands that cheat, explaining "Husbands driving home after work see things that are sexually arousing and go to their wives to ease their urges."
Now, he says Christians are "ungrateful" for all the "tolerance" Islamic law would supposedly afford them, and equates demanding a higher standard of human rights with an alleged Christian supremacism that appears analogous to what he himself envisions for Islam in Malaysia.
It's unclear whether the pun in the headline is intended: "Perkasa ready to crusade against ungrateful Christians," from Malaysia Today, May 15 (thanks to Scott):
“If they want a crusade, so be it. Before our followers fall in this battle, (Perkasa) leaders will first lay down their lives and die sprawling in blood.”
(Malaysiakini) - Perkasa president Ibrahim Ali said that he is willing to wage a crusade against the Christians if the community allegedly continues to challenge Islam's position in the country.
“If they want a crusade, so be it. If they say that the peace that we enjoy is not good enough ... we shall take up the challenge. Don't take the silence of Muslims as a sign of fear,” he warned to cheers from about 150 people at a ceramah last night.
“Before our followers fall in this battle, (Perkasa) leaders will first lay down their lives and die sprawling in blood,” he thundered.
Speaking at a function organised by the Komuniti 1Malaysia group of Kampung Kerdas and Kampung Changkat in Gombak, Ibrahim accused the Christians of “challenging the sovereignty and dignity of Malays and Muslims.”
He was referring to the allegation that a group of pastors were plotting to make Christianity the official religion of the nation and appoint a Christian prime minister. This was reported last Saturday by Umno-owned Utusan Malaysia
“This is an affront to the sovereignty of Muslims who are the majority... It started with race, and now it has gone to issues of religion. But when it comes to religion, it means jihad,” he said to hoots from the crowd.
According to the Pasir Mas parliamentarian, minorities are emboldened to challenge Malay and Muslim supremacy because they are encouraged by PKR de facto leader Anwar Ibrahim, who is pandering for their votes.
“Many of the Christians in Malaysia are Chinese and many of the Christians (in the world) are American. Anwar is acting as a US mole. It all fits,” he said in his trademark fiery style.
However Ibrahim in contriving to scaptegoat [sic] the Chinese community, has his facts wrong, as it is the bumiputera Christians who make up the bulk of the community in Malaysia....
Ali does not seem to want even to acknowledge Malay Christians; doing so would open a can of worms regarding their right to invoke God in their native language. Can't have that.
Sometimes, it seems, insanity knows no bounds!
Just a remark about the last paragraph... "Ali does not seem to want even to acknowledge Malay Christians"
Based on Article 160 of the Constitution of Malaysia, a
"Malay" means a person who professes the religion of Islam, habitually speaks the Malay language and conforms to Malay customs.
Technically,based on the Malaysian constitution, if you aren't a Muslim, you're not a Malay. Actually, I'm not even sure what ethnic Malays would be considered as if they were to convert out of Islam.
Because of the strict apostasy laws in Malaysia, I haven't heard any news of Muslim ethnic-Malays apostates who have succeeded in legally and officially changing their religion.
“If they want a crusade, so be it. Before our followers fall in this battle, (Perkasa) leaders will first lay down their lives and die sprawling in blood.”
....................................
Wanting to be able to use their own word for God in printed matter leads to this insane response.
Just the way any citizen would like to be addressed *by their own Prime Minister*. sarc/off
Brenkenobi1990 wrote:
Technically,based on the Malaysian constitution, if you aren't a Muslim, you're not a Malay. Actually, I'm not even sure what ethnic Malays would be considered as if they were to convert out of Islam.
Because of the strict apostasy laws in Malaysia, I haven't heard any news of Muslim ethnic-Malays apostates who have succeeded in legally and officially changing their religion.
....................................
There's a Malay apostate from Islam who is now Christian who posts here regularly, Bren—but it wasn't until she landed in democratic Germany that she felt free to leave Islam.
I don't believe ethnic Malay apostate Lina Joy has been able to change her status, and she has been trying *for years*. She is still unable to marry her Christian fiance due to the apostasy laws in Malaysia.
That is why I say the West should let the non-Muslims emigrate to the Western countries.The non-Muslims integrate alot better and there is no terrorism problem with them.
Read the Article:"The Myth of the Existence of a Muslim-Islamic Science"
http://www.antisharia.com/2011/05/18/the-myth-of-the-existence-of-a-muslim-islamic-science/
Also Read
1.answeringmuslims.com
2.answering-islam.org
3.thereligionofconquest.com
4.See the videos (click on "online videos") of abnsat.com(like "Jihad Exposed","Debate","Jesus or Muhammad").
The videos are also on youtube,write "abnsat".
5.Also PYEM Ministry:
http://pyemministry.blogspot.com/
(very critical of Islam)
6.The blog "Debunking Quranic Science":
http://debunkingquranicscience.blogspot.com/
7.WIKISLAM(with 1,400 articles):
http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Main_Page
8."Confident Christianity by Mary Jo Sharp":
Home Page:
http://confidentchristianity.com/
Her blog:
http://www.confidentchristianity.blogspot.com/
Also read:
antisharia.com and:
avraidire.com:
http://www.avraidire.com/
(in French and English),you can translate the French by copying and pasting with Google Translate:
http://translate.google.com/#
This man is inciting genocide!
I can't believe what I'm reading! ...since when do muslims use threats and intimidation to get their way? Why this is unheard of!
muslims are always claiming to be such a peaceful and loving group of people, not bullies and thugs ...
Perkasa must be a paranoid misunderstander of islam - tsk, tsk.
Hi Gravenimage, I'm a Malaysian too and I follow Malaysian news very closely eventhough I'm not in Malaysia anymore...
I've heard of the Lina Joy's case. She tried changing her religion through the Civil court only to be dismissed because 2 of the 3 judges decided it was a matter for the Shariah court. That means that, if she went to the shariah court to declare that she is no longer a Muslim, she "could" officially change her religion.
But of course, in most Malaysian states, apostasy according to shariah law is a punishable offense which includes jail terms, canning and meetings with religious officials for a period of time. With this kind of punishment, I doubt there would be many Muslim apostates who would actually dare to go to the Shariah court in Malaysia to declare that they have apostatized so that they can officially change their religion to something other than Islam....
But still, even if an ethnic Malay manages to officially change his religion a problem would still remain... What would his official race be in Malaysia? He can't officially be considered a Malay any longer based on the Malaysian constituition.
Projection, victimization, self pity, veiled and not-quite-so-veiled threats, conspiracy theories, references to the Crusades, Muslim supremacism, Islamic tolerance, denial of facts. In fact: the lot.
Pah, he's a pitiful character but a crowd of 150 is not the world. Except of course they are more than sufficient - as so often and vehemently shown to us - to cause all sorts of mayhem. This is but one roaring crowd in one insignificant corner of the Ummah.
5:38 "(thiefs) cut off his or her hands"
http://newstime.co.nz/sharia-law-punishment.html
Sharia IS Islam
For Muslims Sharia is not LAW it is the PATH, the only right way they MUST live their lives. Sharia means “Living by the Sunna” or following Muhammad’s example (33:21 "excellent example")
What muslims accuse others of doing is a great glimpse into their own worldview and future plans. It's of course the muslims who conspire to do this kind of thing. They're the ones who want to overthrow non-muslims from power and implement sharia law. So they just assume that everyone else is trying to do the same thing against them.
Exactly.
Ibrahim Ali is the quintessential example of a man not comfortable with his masculinity.
Without sharia,Islam is lawless and pathless...Sharia keeps Mahoundians on the straight and narrow path, any variation from it is apostasy or blasphemy...There are Mahoundians who reject sharia, and hadith as a man made structures and not Allah's laws...They only approve of punishments prescribed by Allah in Quran, but they fail to see that is also sharia...
They just don't call it that...Rejecting sharia makes the good Mahoundian a maverick and a quasi-apostate...These people don't dare stand up in mosque and deny sharia...That is detrimental to their health...
... referring to the allegation that a group of pastors were plotting to make Christianity the official religion of the nation ... “This is an affront to the sovereignty of Muslims who are the majority... "
Of course, when muslims want to ram Islam down the throats of non-muslims in the US and Europe, they don't give a fig about the sovereignty of the majority. It is STILL an affront to muslims!
This is but one roaring crowd in one insignificant corner of the Ummah.
This the is tiny minority of extremists one of the world's great religions hijackers we're talking about. Show some respect, Larsen. Moslems take pride in their work, you know. No matter how small the crowd.
*** 33:21 ***
This is an affront to the sovereignty of Muslims who are the majority...
Which sovereignty. That of the nation-state of Malysia, or that of Dar al-Islam? Or maybe it's both at the same time.
“If they want a crusade, so be it. If they say that the peace that we enjoy is not good enough ... we shall take up the challenge. Don't take the silence of Muslims as a sign of fear,” he warned to cheers from about 150 people at a ceramah last night.
I don't take the silence of Muslims as a sign of fear. I take it as more of an indictment of the average Islamic individual. It is hard to form a coherent thought when you are brain-washed by the Qur'an, aHadith and Sira.
Brenkenobi1990 wrote:
I've heard of the Lina Joy's case. She tried changing her religion through the Civil court only to be dismissed because 2 of the 3 judges decided it was a matter for the Shariah court. That means that, if she went to the shariah court to declare that she is no longer a Muslim, she "could" officially change her religion.
.............................
This is like telling the lamb to go to the wolf to get things sorted out.
Lina Joy became a Christian in 1990, and has been petitioning the Malaysian government *since 1998*. They did recognize her name change, but not her religion.
The Federal Court rejected her latest appeal in 2007. The ruling stated that "a person who wanted to renounce his/her religion must do so according to existing laws or practices of the particular religion. Only after the person has complied with the requirements and the authorities are satisfied that the person has apostatised, can she embrace Christianity.... In other words, a person cannot, at one's whims and fancies renounce or embrace a religion."
And this is someone who has been a devout Christian now for *over twenty years*. This is hardly a "whim" or "fancy".
She has been unable to marry her Christian fiancé, since—of course—marriage between Muslim women and non-Muslim men is forbidden under Malaysian law, as a point of Shari'ah.
Lina Joy has had to go into hiding because of the threat she faces from violent Muslims.
She may be out of legal options now. I know she hasn't wanted to leave the country because she has wanted to fight.
I'm not even sure she *can* leave the country, or if she is stuck in the same sort of legal limbo as was Egyptian convert to Christianity Maher El-Gohary and his daughter Dina. They were only able to leave Egypt due to the recent chaos there.
More:
But of course, in most Malaysian states, apostasy according to shariah law is a punishable offense which includes jail terms, canning and meetings with religious officials for a period of time. With this kind of punishment, I doubt there would be many Muslim apostates who would actually dare to go to the Shariah court in Malaysia to declare that they have apostatized so that they can officially change their religion to something other than Islam....
.............................
Yes. This fear is intended as a deterrent.
More:
But still, even if an ethnic Malay manages to officially change his religion a problem would still remain... What would his official race be in Malaysia? He can't officially be considered a Malay any longer based on the Malaysian constituition.
.............................
This has always struck me as particularly appalling. While these laws are, of course, intended as a form of Malay supremacy as well as Muslim supremacy—certainly, the infamous Bumiputera laws discriminate heavily against Hindus, Christians, and ethnic Chinese—still they place a heavy burden on Malays themselves. To determine a person's private faith based solely on the accident of race could not be more grotesque.
I presume you are other than ethnic Malay yourself, Bren. Where are you living now? I know a lot of people would be interested in hearing more about your background.
An interesting comingling of ethnicity and religion. They figured if they tie Islam to their ethnicity, it's fait accompli, set in stone, done at birth.
They are saying one can no more give up Islam than they can give up their own ethnic heritage.
Please, Bren, do you have a story or testimony to tell us here? We don't mind a copy/paste from other site. Would love for other Malaysians and free people and Muslims to see your story.
Well, I don't have any interesting story to tell actually. The reason I left Malaysia was for education purposes... It wasn't because of any religious persecution I suddered there. Lol.
In fact in my years growing up in Malaysia, I haven't personally suffered any religious persecution. I was raised a Catholic and studied in a Catholic mission school. I even have many good Muslim friends who have treated me really nicely and have been very respectful.
Of course, things in Malaysia aren't exactly perfect and they is a lot of room for improvement...ie. Non-Muslims have to study in their history syllabus about things that they don't agree with like Muhammad being perfect (him being merciful, honest, wise and stuff), how Islam modernize the Western world, how the West tried to take over the whole world, etc. Also there could be a lot of things the government could do to protect the rights of non-Muslims that they have failed to do.
Also, like most of the readers here, I do hope that the Anti-propagation law and anti-apostasy law would one day be abrogated. Not for my sake, but for the sake of my Muslim friends who are so dear to me.
I come from a state in Malaysia where Christians are the majority and many Muslims are converting to Christianity each year, though in secret (because their family might disown them and Islamic officials might go after them and those who have played a part in their conversion). Officially they are still Muslims but they are baptized, they go to church on Sundays and live a Christian lifestyle.
Brenkenobi,
You have my thanks, and my support for the freedom of worship in your beloved Malaysia.
What a beautiful culture and gentle people with an astounding history, and how sad that it is in the unsubtle fist of Islam as its master.
Please speak of this during your university days. You will be offering them the truth they will never hear in their schooling...never.
And be careful, please.
Warmest regards,
winoceros
Thanks for the information, Bren. I'm sure the fact that you grew up in a Christian-majority area helped a great deal. I've got your fellow non-Muslims still in Malaysian in my thoughts.