Norway: Muslim rapist tells victim that in Islam, women have no rights

He said it. "Pakistani Muslim rapist admits women have no rights or opinions in Islam," by Acharya S at Freethought Nation, May 27 (thanks to Jack):

A practicing Muslim man raped and threatened a young Norwegian girl for several hours. Numerous rapes in Sweden over the past several years have been committed by "non-Western men," e.g., Muslims. In fact, in the past year, all rapes in Oslo have been committed by non-Western men.

"He said that he had the right to do exactly as he wanted to a woman. Why? Because that is how it was in his religion. Women did not have rights or opinions. He was in charge."...

Meanwhile, all rapes in Norway in the last five years have been committed by...uh..."non-Western immigrants," the latest euphemism for Muslims. Pamela Geller skewers the code words here.

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63 Comments

Soth Asians in UK , non-Western immigrants, or by any other name are Muslims from all Muslim countries. Period! AS long as these governments hide behind euphemisms, they can't solve the problem. I think they have no courage to solve the problem even when the solution is obvious!!

Greetings:

I sure hope that the Norwegians don't over-react by, say, collecting DNA samples from male immigrants (of non-Western appearance) when they arrive from their native (traumatized) countries.

Listening to the female police officer offer up a bevy of excuses for Muslim, oops forgot, non-Western immigrants who rape was maddening. Let's see, they are on the "edge of society," come from "traumatized countries," they're "unemployed" and so on. Appalling. Made all the more so by her insistence that such a heinous activity as rape should not, God forbid, lead to placing a stigma on the unmentioned religion. Oh yes, almost forgot, we also have to try to understand "the motive." This police officer was almost robot-like with her PC/MC excuse making. Pathetic.

Norwegians have brought the beast into their land and are now paying the price for it. And yet still the inclination to be the deferential dhimmi continues. Stunning. To Norwegians I say it's the Islam, stupid. You need look no further, though I fear that way too many Norwegians will look everywhere but to this.

I'm guessing that the next time a Norwegian man is charged with rape many dhimmis over there will breathe a huge sigh of relief and say: "See that??!! 'Non-western immigrants' don't have a monopoly or rape!! Our own people are just as much a threat as anyone else..."

Rape of non-Muslim women is a weapon of war used by the jihadists, which is approved in the Quran, Hadith, and Islamic law. These Islamic sources also promote the idea that non-Muslim women are not to be respected, are whores, are worth less than any other people, etc.

There are various types of causes. There are the evil motives of the perpetrators, which are caused by Islamic education and culture, but then there are also the attitudes and policies of the enablers of the rape jihad. The enablers include members of the Muslim community, imams, etc., but also the politically correct (for lack of a better term) non-Muslims in authority who refuse to take the necessary large-scale measures to counter this Muslim rape epidemic. These large scale measures would include options like extensive restrictions on immigration of Muslims, deprogramming and reprogramming of Muslims who are in the West, etc. To fail to implement these and other such defensive policies is to knowingly leave girls and women at a much higher risk of being raped--all in the name of maintaining ideological illusions. When the authorities in a society do nothing to defend their female citizens from being raped by hostile predators, they are guilty of criminal negligence of the worst sort. We need to continue to shine a light on the rape epidemic, until the general public is ready to hold the authorities (not just Muslim apologists) to account for enabling this.

Let's stop blaming Islam and start blaming Muslim barrows. Only when Islam is practised is it a problem. No Muslims, no problems with Islam.

We know what we must do and we know we must do it soon.

Another example of how Moslems have become the "top victims" in the West. Black victims, gay victims, feminist victims: all lose out in competition with Moslem victims.

I respectfully disagree with you that Islam is not the problem. I understand full well that the practice of Islam by Muslims is what immediately causes the many difficulties the world is burdened with because of Mo's creed, but Islamic theory is out there to be put into full force by your more "enthusiastic" Muslims. And such theory is full of pathologies and a model for confused human beings to follow. Yes, if there were almost no Muslims left, as is the case with, say, Zoroastrians, the whole world would be better off, but that would still not diminish all the troubling elements in Islam. They're there, they're putrid and they are the "but for" cause respecting Muslim atrocities. After all, the inspiration is responsbile for a particular result as much as, if not more so, than the implementation.

Islam was founded by a rapist, and Moslems consider their founder a "perfect example", so it's not surprising that they follow his example. What is surprising is that so many Westerners tolerate this.

tell how again are these porki and others muslims are enriching the culture of Norway?

"Rape of non-Muslim women is a weapon of war used by the jihadists, which is approved in the Quran, Hadith, and Islamic law. These Islamic sources also promote the idea that non-Muslim women are not to be respected, are whores, are worth less than any other people, etc."

I don't suppose you could provide some citations from the sources you mention to substantiate these claims, could you? I'd be most grateful.

I'd also be grateful if you could provide the statistical data which suggests that that there exists (where?) a "Muslim rape epidemic", i.e. an epidemic of non-Muslim females being raped by Muslim males.

Finally, you recommend policies such as "extensive restrictions on immigration of Muslims" and "deprogramming and reprogramming of Muslims who are in the West". Failure to implement such policies, you claim, "is to knowingly leave girls and women at a much higher risk of being raped" and amounts to "criminal negligence".

Since you have obviously given this a lot of thought, I don't suppose you could expand on these points could you? How do you suggest that Western governments go about restricting immigration to Muslims, and what would the "deprogramming and reprogramming of Muslims" involve?

By the way, please do not take the intention behind asking you these questions to be a hostile one. I share your concerns, and agree that it would be desirable to limit the immigration of Muslims to the West. However, I wonder how any such policy could possibly be implemented. I also wonder whether you have really thought through what the global (social, political, economic) ramifications of any such policy would likely be. And while properly educating Muslims (and indeed, people in general) is obviously a desirable aim, how do you suggest that governments go about "deprogramming and reprogramming of Muslims", exactly? What kinds of steps would this involve?

Countries like Norway and Sweden are too busy looking for ways to attack Israel.They don't have time to worry about their women getting raped by muslims.
European women better start thinking seriously about wearing hijab or burkhas since they obviously cannot count on the authorities in their countries to protect them.
The other option of course is to take self defense lessons.
The only problem with that of course is if one of these rapists was hurt by a woman defending herself, political correctness would demand that she be sent to jail.
Enjoy your multi-culturalism folks!!

Raping kuffar women and children degrades and humiliates them and is therefore pleasing to Allah. Wherever you have Muslims in Dar al-Harb, you have a gang-rape and child-abduction problem: http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/02/sexual-jihad-demoralising-and.html

I've been reading a lot lately about rampant antisemitism in Norway and Sweden. In those countries, the consensus seems to be that the Jews are the evil victimizers of the helpless Palestinians. Now the Norwegians are getting a taste of what it's like to be a victim of some REAL evil victimizers.
Hey, here's an idea for a new reality show: Islamic and European encounters. Rapes, welfare scams, no-go zones, riots, car burnings, Islamofascist rallies, left-right confrontations. Now that would entertaining!

P.S. The English Defence League has just held a demonstration in Blackpool against Islamic Pedophilic Cannibalism . Two thousand English patriots turned up and only and handful of leftwing counter-demonstrators http://www.blackpoolgazette.co.uk/news/local/2_000_edl_protesters_gather_on_blackpool_promenade_1_3428595 and http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-13583525

The Muslims are losing their support among the leftards in England.

It's in Mein Qurampf 33:59, isn't it?

Note: the link is to a disturbing Facebook page that offers quite an insightful look inside the demented, twisted and disturbed minds of mahoundians.

Five years of war. Norwegian women must go out in groups, and they must go about ARMED. They must all expect attack - be vigilant at all times. You must not allow yourselves to be predated. Use Lisbeth Salander as a model.

For women in Norway, it's as though the Nazis won the war.

Spencer wrote: "Muslim rapist tells victim that in Islam, women have no rights"

This is true, yet completely irrelevant in the civilized world. Secular law takes precedence over religious views in the West. I still cannot understand how liberals can accept this behavior from Muslims while decrying the same behavior from Christian nuts.

Spencer wrote: "all rapes in Norway in the last five years have been committed by...uh...'non-Western immigrants,' the latest euphemism for Muslims"

This is similar to the British press' habit of referring to anyone from the Muslim world as "Asian." In fact, true Asians, e.g. Koreans, Japanese, Chinese, etc, rarely rape; it is not a part of their culture.

Damian wrote: "extensive restrictions on immigration of Muslims"

Ask each Muslim immigrant if he agrees that Western law trumps Islamic law. If he disagrees, put him on the black list and prevent him from entering. If he agrees, and then later acts contrary to his assertion, deport him; if he had gained citizenship in the interim, strip it from him in the same manner as we stripped the Nazi John Demjanjuk of his citizenship.

I wrote: "I still cannot understand how liberals can accept this behavior from Muslims while decrying the same behavior from Christian nuts."

I did not mean to imply that Christians are known for rapes, only that some of them want to force society to obey the laws of the Bible.

All in all, when they call a spade a spade, as in a miserable species of vermin is still a vermin, progress will be really begin. Vermin of a cult is a vermin, always.

Call in the exterinators, bar the doors, and get the cats (er...seals) in!

There is this Democratic tenet, ideal, that an individual person, man or woman, is autonomous as much as possible in a society. And all women should, from birth to death, be always totally in control of her own body. In latin; to have Habeas Corpus. Or always total autonomy of control over her body. This is what we want if do NOT want rape, domestic violence or human trafficking.

It is still very hard to prove that:
A. Muslim men rape women more than non-Muslim men rape women. And relevant here is that a while ago I read that rape occurs surprisingly much inside the homes of Muslims, rape of Muslima's by their relatives. When this came to light, it was a revelation to the researchers, because it was assumed that Muslim males somehow respected Muslima's more, but no, rape in the family also was shockingly high among Muslims in Holland.
B. That Muslims do this not despite but more because of Islam, because of the misogynistic nature of Islamic texts and prevailing interpretation thereof.

But since there seems not much the authorities seem to do extra and we cannot force them, all we seem to have now is: - Monitoring everything connected with the crimes of rape, domestic violence, human trafficking etc in connection with the faith or lack thereof of apprehended perpetrators.
- And the influence of that faith, in a broad sense, on that criminal attitude and behavior of perpetrators.

And much evidence seems to point towards the conclusion that Islam is not a beneficial, mitigating or even a neutral factor in the occurrence of rape or lack of it, but yes, a big detrimental factor. And indeed authorities are criminally negligent to allow crime to go more unchecked than necessary when they ignore this factor.

And bit by bit, the burden of proof shifts to Muslims and Muslim-defenders to prove that Islam is not a detrimental factor in the occurrence of rape. And the more this burden of proof shifts the more popular the Freedom Party in Holland and it's counterparts in other Democratic Nations will hopefully grow.

And hopefully it will grow especially among the female half of the voters. Who especially need to be made aware of the rising mountains of clues that Islam has a detrimental, exacerbating influence on the occurrence of rape.

We can not have perverts using the madness of Islam as an excuse to violate another human being and in so should lose their human rights so just take mad dogs like this,put them down,your choice of termination,then fed to the superior dogs.

Folks, send this video to friends and acquaintances...particularly females. Preface it by saying there is a lot of PC apologia that still can't hide the reality. It is as powerful as anything Robert has brought us in weeks.


Its very obvious that western government are not going to protect their women against sexually depraved Muslims. The best thing that these woman could do is to carry and use if necessary a nice concealable gun. Once some of these savages start to got shot for attempting a rape they will all learn that maybe Allah didn't make men and women equal but Colonel Colt did.

A practicing Muslim man raped and threatened a young Norwegian girl for several hours. Numerous rapes in Sweden over the past several years have been committed by "non-Western men," e.g., Muslims. In fact, in the past year, all rapes in Oslo have been committed by non-Western men.
...........................

Let that sink in—Oslo is Norway's largest metropolis, and a major world city with a population of almost 600,000, and *not a single rape was committed by Norwegians, or even other Westerners*. Virtually all "non-Western" immigrants in Norway *are Muslim*.

More:

Meanwhile, all rapes in Norway in the last five years have been committed by...uh..."non-Western immigrants," the latest euphemism for Muslims.
...........................

So—it's not just the past year—it's the past *five years*. And the Muslim population of the country as of 2007 was estimated at between 2% and 3.5% of the population in Norway, and about 10% of the population of Oslo itself.

More:

"He said that he had the right to do exactly as he wanted to a woman. Why? Because that is how it was in his religion. Women did not have rights or opinions. He was in charge."...
...........................

And lest anyone think this is just some "misunderstander" of his faith, Iranian President Ahmadinejad's personal Imam recently pronounced the sanctification of prison rape, declaring raping a virgin girl scheduled for execution on par with *going on the Hadj to Mecca* in terms of Islamic piety.

Here's a good article:

"Norway, Rape and Muslims - A Study"

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2007/12/norway-rape-and-muslims-study-much.html

And here's the perceptive Fjordman on the Muslim rape epidemic in Sweden and Norway:

http://fjordman.blogspot.com/2005/02/muslim-rape-epidemic-in-sweden-and.html

Norwegian professor Unni Wikan infamously had this to say about rape victims in Norway:

"Norwegian women must take their share of responsibility for
these rapes" because their manner of dress would be regarded by Muslim men as inappropriate. "Norwegian women must realize that we live in a multicultural society and adapt themselves to it."

Damian,

I can't meet all your requests at once, and I don't have much in the way of files and records on this, so I probably won't be able to meet all of your requests to your satisfaction. However, I will try to address some (to be continued in subsequent posts):

You ask:
"I don't suppose you could provide some citations from the sources you mention [Quran, Hadith, etc.] to substantiate these claims [re Islam permitting rape of non-Muslim women, etc.], could you? I'd be most grateful."

Re sex with female slave or captive "right hand possessions," Qur'an 70:29-30, 23:1-7, 4:24--see tafsirs, freely available online, of Ibn Kathir, Al-Jalalayn; and the Asbab Al-Nuzul of Al-Wahidi, 33:50-52 (via Muhammad's example conduct, 33:21).

Example, Al-Jalalayn (4:24):
"And, forbidden to you are, wedded women, those with spouses, that you should marry them before they have left their spouses, be they Muslim free women or not; save what your right hands own, of captured [slave] girls, whom you may have sexual intercourse with, even if they should have spouses among the enemy camp, but only after they have been absolved of the possibility of pregnancy [after the completion of one menstrual cycle]; this is what God has prescribed for you (kitāba is in the accusative because it is the verbal noun). Lawful for you (read passive wa-uhilla, or active wa-ahalla), beyond all that, that is, except what He has forbidden you of women, is that you seek, women, using your wealth, by way of a dowry or a price, in wedlock and not, fornicating, in illicitly. Such wives as you enjoy thereby, and have had sexual intercourse with, give them their wages, the dowries that you have assigned them, as an obligation; you are not at fault in agreeing together, you and they, after the obligation, is waived, decreased or increased. God is ever Knowing, of His creatures, Wise, in what He has ordained for them."
http://www.altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=1&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=4&tAyahNo=24&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2

Ibn Kathir (4:24):
"Forbidding Women Already Married, Except for Female Slaves
Allah said,

[وَالْمُحْصَنَـتُ مِنَ النِّسَآءِ إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكْتَ أَيْمَـنُكُمْ]

(Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess.) The Ayah means, you are prohibited from marrying women who are already married,

[إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكْتَ أَيْمَـنُكُمْ]

(except those whom your right hands possess) except those whom you acquire through war, for you are allowed such women after making sure they are not pregnant. Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Sa`id Al-Khudri said, "We captured some women from the area of Awtas who were already married, and we disliked having sexual relations with them because they already had husbands. So, we asked the Prophet about this matter, and this Ayah was revealed, e

[وَالْمُحْصَنَـتُ مِنَ النِّسَآءِ إِلاَّ مَا مَلَكْتَ أَيْمَـنُكُمْ]

(Also (forbidden are) women already married, except those whom your right hands possess). Consequently, we had sexual relations with these women.'' This is the wording collected by At-Tirmidhi An-Nasa'i, Ibn Jarir and Muslim in his Sahih. Allah's statement,

[كِتَـبَ اللَّهِ عَلَيْكُمْ]

(Thus has Allah ordained for you) means, this prohibition was ordained for you by Allah. Therefore, adhere to Allah's Book, do not transgress His set limits, and adhere to His legislation and decrees."

Other Notes:

Ibn Qayyim Al-Jawziyya:
Zad al-Ma’ad
Regarding His Guidance With Respect to Prisoners of War

p. 319
"And the correct opinion which is based upon his guidance and that of his companions is that the Arabs may be taken as slaves and it is permissible to have sexual intercourse with the slave women from among them without it being conditional upon their embracing Islam."
[cites Malik and Bukhari]


Hadith

(Sahih Muslim) "Chapter 29: IT IS PERMISSIBLE TO HAVE SEXUAL INTERCOURSE WITH A CAPTIVE WOMAN AFTER SHE IS PURIFIED (OF MENSES OR DELIVERY) IN CASE SHE HAS A HUSBAND, HER MARRIAGE IS ABROGATED AFTER SHE BECOMES CAPTIVE"
Sahih Muslim, Book 8, Number 3432 (also 3433, 3434): "Abu Sa'id al-Khudri (Allah her pleased with him) reported that at the Battle of Hanain Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) sent an army to Autas and encountered the enemy and fought with them. Having overcome them and taken them captives, the Companions of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) seemed to refrain from having intercourse with captive women because of their husbands being polytheists. Then Allah, Most High, sent down regarding that: "And women already married, except those whom your right hands possess (iv. 24)" (i. e. they were lawful for them when their 'Idda period came to an end)."

Sahih Muslim, Book 008, Number 3371 (3371-3388):
"Abu Sirma said to Abu Sa'id al Khadri (Allah he pleased with him): O Abu Sa'id, did you hear Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) mentioning al-'azl? He said: Yes, and added: We went out with Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) on the expedition to the Bi'l-Mustaliq and took captive some excellent Arab women; and we desired them, for we were suffering from the absence of our wives, (but at the same time) we also desired ransom for them. So we decided to have sexual intercourse with them but by observing 'azl (Withdrawing the male sexual organ before emission of semen to avoid-conception). But we said: We are doing an act whereas Allah's Messenger is amongst us; why not ask him? So we asked Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), and he said: It does not matter if you do not do it, for every soul that is to be born up to the Day of Resurrection will be born."

Malik’s Muwatta, Book 29, Number 29.32.100:
"Yahya related to me from Malik from Humayd ibn Qays al-Makki that a man called Dhafif said that Ibn Abbas was asked about coitus interruptus. He called a slave-girl of his and said, "Tell them." She was embarrassed. He said, "It is alright, and I do it myself." Malik said, "A man does not practise coitus interruptus with a free woman unless she gives her permission. There is no harm in practising coitus interruptus with a slave-girl without her permission. Someone who has someone else's slave-girl as a wife, does not practise coitus interruptus with her unless her people give him permission.""

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 3, Book 46, Number 717:
Narrated Ibn Aun: I wrote a letter to Nafi and Nafi wrote in reply to my letter that the Prophet had suddenly attacked Bani Mustaliq without warning while they were heedless and their cattle were being watered at the places of water. Their fighting men were killed and their women and children were taken as captives; the Prophet got Juwairiya on that day. Nafi said that Ibn 'Umar had told him the above narration and that Ibn 'Umar was in that army.

[The examples could go on and on, many of them focused on the issue of practicing or not practicing coitus interruptus, but taking for granted that the men could have sex with, i.e., rape, these women].


Sira example:

Ishaq, p. 511. (Raid on Khaybar)
“The apostle seized the property piece by piece and conquered the forts one by one as he came to them. [...] The apostle took captives from them among whom Safiya d. Huyayy b. Akhtab who had been the wife of Kinana b. al-Rabi‘ b. Abu’l-Huqayq, and two cousins of hers. The apostle chose Safiya for himself. [...] The women of Khaybar were distributed among the Muslims.”

Other indirect but scholarly examples:

http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/med/lewis1.html
Bernard Lewis. Race and Slavery in the Middle East
Oxford Univ Press 1994.
Chpt. 1 Slavery
Lewis: “A Muslim slaveowner was entitled by law to the sexual enjoyment of his slave women. While free women might own male slaves, they had of course no equivalent right.”

First Encyclopaedia of Islam, E. J. Brill
http://books.google.ca/books?id=fWNpIGNFz0IC&pg=PA774&dq=nikah&hl=en&ei=NGptTf_GIdO5tge_y-DVBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CEAQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q=nikah&f=false
p 913 (reasons for not allowing a marriage) “6. […] (a master is however permitted concubinage with his slave); […] 8. temporary obstacles such as the state of ihram [q.v]. On the other hand, the law knows no minimum age for marriage."

http://voi.org/books/mssmi/ch12.htm
CHAPTER XII: SEX SLAVERY
Muslim Slave System in Medieval India
K.S. Lal. Aditya Prakashan, New Delhi


Popular Islamic advice sites:

http://islamqa.com/en/ref/10382

http://www.askimam.org/fatwa/fatwa.php?askid=182a6760abb8a132392414c4be26ef57

Continuing response to Damian...

The Reliance of the Traveller:
O-9.13
"When a child or a woman is taken captive, they become slaves by the fact of capture, and the woman's previous marriage is immediately annulled."

[Note: I've read that there is a section in Arabic in The Reliance, that was not translated into English, that deals with slavery and female slaves (right hand possessions, captives), but the above quote confirms the idea expressed by the translator of the Sahih Muslim hadith that I quoted in my previous post above]

---------

The Risala of 'Abdullah ibn Abi Zayd al-Qayrawani (310/922 - 386/996) A Treatise on Maliki Fiqh (Including commentary from ath-Thamr ad-Dani by al-Azhari)

Chapter 32: On marriage, divorce, remarriage, 'Dhihar'-repudiation, vows of celibacy within marriage, mutual cursing (li'an), 'Khul'-'divorce, and suckling

[...] "Marriage in the sense of intercourse is only permitted in the Shari'a by one of two matters: the contract of marriage or ownership by the words of the Almighty, "those who guard their private parts – except from their wives or those they own as slaves, in which case they are not blameworthy." (23:5-6)"

--------------

Another modern scholarly source:

Law of desire: temporary marriage in Shi'i Iran (1989) Syracuse University Press, Syracuse, New York, by Shahla Haeri
Chapter Permanent Marriage: Nikah, page 33-34
“Throughout the centuries, virtually unchanging language is used to define the Shi’i institution of marriage. Hilli (SI, 428), the thirteenth-century scholar, defines a contract of marriage as “that type of contract which ensures domination over the vagina, buz’, without ownership, milkiyyat,” as in the case of a slave girl.1 Hilli’s ambivalence regarding similarities between a contract of sale and of marriage is underscored by yet another of his definitions of nikah. On the one hand, he suggests that “marriage is a kind of ownership” (517), but on the other, he argues, an ‘aqd [marriage] and ownership, milkiyyat, do not mix” (446), meaning that a man may have intercourse with his own slave girl but he may not marry her—unless he first sets her free.2 He can, however, marry another man’s slave girl. Note that Hilli’s distinction is not between the existence or lack of ownership, but between what I call a “complete ownership,” as in the case of owning a slave girl, and a “partial ownership,” as in the case of a contract of marriage. Although legally this injunction makes it unlawful for a man to own his wife completely, it allows him to own part of his wife’s body and, consequently, the right to control her activities. In the tradition of his predecessors, Jabiri-Arablu, a contemporary scholar, after giving several interpretations of the term nikah, concludes that “nikah is a contract for the ownership, tamlik, of the use of [the] vagina” (1983, 175)."

p. 30
“An Islamic marriage is defined as “that type of contract, ‘aqd, which gives ownership, tamlik, over intercourse, vaty, not like buying a slave girl whose ownership entitles her master a right to intercourse” (Hilli SI, 428).”

---------------------

Essays in Arabic literary biography, Volume 2
By Roger M. A. Allen, Joseph E. Lowry, Terri DeYoung, Devin J. Stewart

al-Nafzawi (fl. ca 1380 – 1440)
by Lois A Giffen
p. 309 “Shaykh al-Nafzawi is known to the world only through his book, al-Rawd al-‘atir fi nuzhat al-khatir (The Perfumed Garden of Sensual Delight […]) […] a work of practical instruction on the successful conduct of sexual relations in marriage and concubinage.”

----------------

More hadiths:

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59, Number 637:
"Narrated Buraida:
The Prophet sent 'Ali to Khalid to bring the Khumus (of the booty) and I hated Ali, and 'Ali had taken a bath (after a sexual act with a slave-girl from the Khumus). I said to Khalid, "Don't you see this (i.e. Ali)?" When we reached the Prophet I mentioned that to him. He said, "O Buraida! Do you hate Ali?" I said, "Yes." He said, "Do you hate him, for he deserves more than that from the Khumus."

Malik’s Muwatta, Book 29, Number 29.32.95:
"Yahya related to me from Malik from Rabia ibn Abi Abd ar-Rahman from Muhammad ibn Yahya ibn Habban that Ibn Muhayriz said, "I went into the mosque and saw Abu Said al-Khudri and so I sat by him and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu Said al-Khudri said, 'We went out with the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, on the expedition to the Banu al-Mustaliq. We took some Arabs prisoner, and we desired the women as celibacy was hard for us. We wanted the ransom, so we wanted to practise coitus interruptus. We said, 'Shall we practise coitus interruptus while the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, is among us before we ask him?' We asked him about that and he said, 'You don't have to not do it. There is no self which is to come into existence up to the Day of Rising but that it will come into existence.'"

Briefly, the idea that non-Muslim women are regarded as lesser than Muslim women is shown in the Islamic concept of blood money, where non-Muslim women's lives are worth less than anyone else. This also is implied by the fact that non-Muslims are worth less than Muslims, and women are worth less than men in this scheme, and in general in terms of precepts in the Quran, Hadith, and Islamic law.

The idea that they are whores or otherwise not respected sexually is widespread today among Muslims in the West and was shown dramatically in the case of the "cat meat" sheikh of Australia, who received strong support from the Muslim community there for his comments blaming non-Muslim women for being raped. There have been similar statements blaming non-Muslim women (for being raped), statements made by popular figures such as Qaradawi, and some imams in Europe. Moreover there have been numerous quotes from perpetrators who are unrepentant and clearly have absolute contempt for the non-Muslim females they've raped.

E.g., http://www.cphpost.dk/get/82118.html
“An Islamic mufti in Copenhagen, Shahid Mehdi, has sparked political outcry from the left-wing Unity List and right-wing Danish People's Party, after stating in a televised interview that women who do not wear headscarves are "asking for rape."

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20658464-601,00.html
Relaxed sheik gets rock star treatment
John Stapleton October 28, 2006
"WHILE the rest of the country expressed outrage at his comments, Taj Din al-Hilali enjoyed rock star status when he arrived at Lakemba Mosque yesterday.
He was smiling when he exited Sydney's now infamous mosque, clearly buoyed by the backing he had received inside, where 5000 worshippers shouted their support during the midday service.
He was surrounded by more than 200 fervent supporters as he made his way to a waiting car."

http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,,20690632-5006029,00.html
ANDREW Bolt writes: "It's the code of the tribe: the worst of us is better than the best of you. We have urgent work to do if we want to save ourselves."
"Simple? Yet yesterday 34 Muslim groups signed a petition backing this bigot [Hilali, the cat meat sheikh], while others plan a big rally for Sydney tomorrow, denouncing not Hilaly but the non-Muslims who criticise him."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/013770.php
A Muslim Council of Britain leader [Abduljalil Sajid] backs Aussie imam in "women are like uncovered meat" row. Oct 28, 2006

The uncovered meat idea is based on Quran 33:59, e.g., see tafsirs and commentary; the point of Islamic dress code for Muslim women was so that they, as distinguished from non-Muslim women, would not be sexually harassed.

---------------------

I'm not aware of any major formal studies of this phenomenon of Muslims raping non-Muslim women, but there is more than enough information available to the general reader, information which should suffice to inform policy.

Here is some information re "statistics," besides the above Norwegian source cited by Robert in the article, but note I'm not aware of any proper large-scale study of the phenomenon in Europe. I'm drawing on a large number of reports that I've read over the past several years, and in most cases I don't have records of these.

http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/2006/02/muslim_rapes_of_nonmuslim_girl.html
Muslim rapes of non-Muslim girls an epidemic

http://www.sdkuriren.se/nyheter.php?action=fullnews&id=1101
85 percent of rapists in Sweden are of foreign background (i.e., mostly Muslim)

http://viking-observer.blogspot.com/2006/01/rapes-jump-30-in-sweden.html
Thursday, January 12, 2006
“Rapes jump 30% in Sweden ….The number of rapes in Sweden was 2631 in 2004. A 30% increase would mean the 2005 number is 3400.”

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article190268.ece
Oslo rape statistics shock. Aftenposten.
"Two out of three charged with rape in Norway's capital are immigrants with a non-western background according to a police study. The number of rape cases is also rising steadily.The study is the first where the crime statistics have been analyzed according to ethnic origin. Of the 111 charged with rape in Oslo last year, 72 were of non-western ethnic origin, 25 are classified as Norwegian or western and 14 are listed as unknown.
Rape charges in the capital are spiraling upwards, 40 percent higher from 1999 to 2000 and up 13 percent so far this year.
Nine out of ten cases do not make it to prosecution, most of them because police do not believe the evidence is sufficient to reach a conviction.
Police Inspector Gunnar Larsen of Oslo's Vice, Robbery and Violent crime division says the statistics are surprising - the rising number of rape cases and the link to ethnic background are both clear trends. But Larsen does not want to speculate on the reasons behind the worrying developments.
While 65 percent of those charged with rape are classed as coming from a non-western background, this segment makes up only 14.3 percent of Oslo's population. Norwegian women were the victims in 80 percent of the cases, with 20 percent being women of foreign background.
Larsen said that since this was the initial study examining ethnic make-up there were no existing figures to put the numbers into context.
"Meanwhile, it is our general experience that this is an increasing tendency. We note this by the number of time we need to use interpreters in the course of an investigation," Larsen said."

http://www.expressen.se/index.jsp?a=238920
Våldtogs av gäng [gang rapes]


http://www.time.com/time/europe/magazine/2002/1202/crime/bellil.htm
Posted Sunday, Nov. 24, 2002; 2.02 p.m. GMT
“Sexual assault is rampant in France's crumbling housing projects. Now a gang-rape victim has broken the silence. Will society confront the crisis?”

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/05/13/60minutes/main617270.shtml
Excerpts:
[…]
“There was a trial in Lille where a 13-year-old girl was gang raped by 80 men. Sometimes, it’s 80, or 50 or 10. It’s absolutely terrible,” says Bellil. “In the case of Argenteuil, it was horrible. A young woman was raped in a school. Of course, everybody knew, but they're so afraid of these young men that they prefer to close their eyes. That's the price of peace in the ghettos.”
[…]

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/search/label/Rape%20and%20Muslims
“Last year, there were 639 rapes in Switzerland. 309 of the 489 identified perpetrators, i.e. over 63%, were foreigners.
198 homicides were committed in Switzerland in 2006 (3). Of the 226 identified perpetrators, 51% were foreigners. There were 9272 assaults with bodily damage and 8568 identified assailants. Almost 50% of the assailants were Swiss residents of foreign extraction. (4)
All these and statistics on kidnappings, theft, burglary etc —- all the specialty of foreigners-- may be gleaned in the 2006 Statistical Report on Crime, issued by the Swiss Federal Police.”


http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2011/01/uk-89-of-sex-groomers-are-pakistani.html
UK: 89% of sex groomers are Pakistani Muslims

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2010/11/uk-sex-gangs-school-girls-and-sinister.html
UK: 'Asian' gangs grooming school girls as sex slaves

http://www.city-journal.org/html/15_4_suicide_bombers.html
By Theodore Dalrymple (From The Suicide Bombers Among Us)
(Excerpt).
“However similar young Muslim men might be in their tastes to young white men, they would be horrified, and indeed turn extremely violent, if their sisters comported themselves as young white women do. They satisfy their sexual needs with prostitutes and those whom they quite openly call “white sluts.” (Many a young white female patient of mine has described being taunted in this fashion as she walked through a street inhabited by Muslims.) And, of course, they do not have to suffer much sexual frustration in an environment where people decide on sexual liaisons within seconds of acquaintance.”

http://www.expatica.com/actual/article.asp?subchannel_id=26&story_id=30050
Shock in Berlin as suspected rapists freed. 16 May 2006
"BERLIN - Four youths suspected of gang-raping a 16-year-old schoolgirl in a Berlin park last week have been released after briefly being detained by police in a move which has fuelled anger in the German capital."

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/012856.php#more
Fjordman [Excerpt]
“French filmmaker Pierre Rehov states that: "A friend of mine is a retired chief of police, who used to be in charge of the security of a major city in the south of France. He reported to me that his men had to face an average of 10 rapes a week, 80% made by Muslim young men. According to Rehov, "I can see in any raping of a non-Muslim woman by a Muslim male a racist action, and it is high time for us to acknowledge and condemn it. The level of contempt towards non-Muslim women is the reflection of the level of hatred towards the society which creates equality between men and women."”

--------------------

The phenomenon is hardly limited to Europe and Australia, but is found throughout the Muslim world (e.g., Egypt, Pakistan, Bangladesh, etc.):

http://www.hrtribune.com/report/Thesis_Jenny3.pdf
Rape as Genocide Under International Criminal Law: The Case of Bangladesh.
Thesis by Jenny Lundström. Lund University. Global Human Rights Defence.
Excerpts:
“In Bangladesh, gang rape has become a major tool of political terror, forcing minorities to flee and has proven more effective than murder. The victims have all been belonging to ethnic/religious minorities.* Neither little girls nor pregnant women and the elderly are spared. The perpetrators are men belonging to various branches of Muslim extremist political parties, including direct branches of the ruling BNP (e.g., various student wings of BNP like JCD and Jubo Dal. In many cases the rapists are closely related to BNP leaders.” Page 31.

Bolding added.
BNP. Bangladesh Nationalist Party
*Note: Victims referred to here are the Hindus, Buddhists, Christians, Ahmadis.

Page 34. “The rapes taking place in Bangladesh are often associated with brutal violence (e.g., beatings, cuttings, and the forceful insertion of objects into the vagina) and a great majority of are gang rapes that takes place in front of the victim’s husband, children, or parents. The investigative material from human rights organizations like GHRD provides countless examples of how victims have suffered physically and mentally as a result of rape. A victim as young as four years old was gang-raped in Jhenida and the rape was initiated by a local leader of Jatiyatabadi Chhatra Dal, (JCD) a student wing of the BNP. In order for the perpetrators to enable the act they had to first cut her vagina open with a knife.”

Page 38. “…the rapes in Bangladesh are taking place in a generally discriminatory structure and are supplemented by additional systematic attacks (killings, arson, destruction of cultural and religious places and other violence).”

The Rediff Special/ Mashuqur Rahman
The demons of 1971. January 04, 2007
http://www.rediff.com/news/2007/jan/04spec.htm
“The Pakistan army and the Razakars did not stop at simply massacring Bengalis. They also took to raping Bengali women. During nine months in 1971, over 200,000 Bengali women and girls were raped. Many were taken as sex slaves and raped multiple times by the Pakistani army.”

http://www.newenglishreview.org/blog_direct_link.cfm/blog_id/27053
Tuesday, 13 April 2010
An Indian Observer On "Why Muslims are so inclined to Seduce Rape and Marry non-Muslim Girls"

http://africa.reuters.com/wire/news/usnMCD258659.html
Darfur: Arab militias rape girls

http://www.hrdc.net/sahrdc/hrfeatures/HRF31.htm
“Churches have been vandalised by Islamic extremists and Christian villages have been looted and burned, leaving thousands homeless. There have also been shocking cases of rape and murder. On their way home from working at a factory, eight Christian women, seven of whom were teenagers, were raped at gunpoint by Muslim men in May 2000. In 1998, four Muslim men raped a seven-year-old Christian girl named Nageena. In both cases, the perpetrators have gone unpunished while the victims and their families have been threatened with facing the "consequences" if they seek justice. Accused by his daughter’s attackers, Ghulam Masih, Nageena’s father, was put on death row for allegedly killing an old woman in his village.”

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006/06/23/story_23-6-2006_pg3_3
"According to Jang (April 21, 2006) there were 246 women rotting in jails in Pakistan because they were either accused of fornication or had accused men of rape. The law attracted a lot of abuse but politicians and ulema were not agreed on reform of law. Nor were they agreed on the lessening of the suffering of innocent women."

Saudi Telethon Host Calls for Enslaving Jew Women
http://dc.indymedia.org/newswire/display/22630/www.imcmalta.org

[EXCERPTS]
Al-Buraik, a Wahhabi cleric, is closely tied to Prince
AbdulAziz Ben Fahd, the king's youngest son, and
member of the Saudi delegation accompanying Crown
Prince Abdullah on his current visit.

Al-Buraik was the host of the two-day long telethon
raising funds for Palestinians, which raised $109 million.
He is also the host of "Religion and Life," a program on
government television Channel One and on MBC
television owned by Prince AbdulAziz Ben Fahd.
Al-Buraik said on the tape that the money raised would
go to Palestinian fighters.
[…]
Re: Jewish women as slaves he says:
"Muslim Brothers in Palestine, do not have any mercy neither compassion on
the Jews, their blood, their money, their flesh. Their women are yours to take,
legitimately. God made them yours. Why don't you enslave their women?
Why don't you wage jihad? Why don't you pillage them?"


Feb. 27, 2007 22:15 Gang rapes Jewish women as 'revenge'
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?apage=1&cid=1171894534328&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
Excerpt:
" "A gang of serial rapists has been prowling the North, raping Jewish women as revenge for IDF actions in the West Bank, police revealed Tuesday after arresting six suspects.
"We are raping Jews because of what the IDF is doing to the Palestinians in the territories," one of the six suspects told investigators from the Northern District Central Investigative Unit (CIU) during questioning. During their questioning and their brief appearance at the Nazareth Magistrate's Court Tuesday, none of the four main suspects indicated that they felt remorse for their actions.
Police said they were aware of four attacks carried out by the gang, but they believed there were probably other incidents that had gone unreported by the victims. [...]"

http://www.refugeesinternational.org/content/article/detail/3215
“This strategy of rape as a weapon of war and social control is having a profound effect on the conception of the meaning of being Muslim for the people of Darfur. A distinction is being drawn between the Islam lived out in Darfur and that promulgated by the Khartoum government. Abnan and Al Tahir, two women from Darfur who have been raped had this to say: “A minority in power uses both Islam and Arabism to blindfold the whole society, to silence any political opposition or arrest human rights activists. On the contrary, in Darfur the ordinary people see Islam through a different lens. It’s for them a religion with its true meaning. It’s a religion and not a political tool. This is how you can understand how a Janjaweed Muslim can be told by Khartoum to rape a Muslim woman and her young girl regardless of Islam... and they too can do it…Muslims in Khartoum have corrupted Islam.””

[Note: Of course, from the primary Islamic sources, rape of non-Muslim female captives was allowed, so it's hard to see how they are corrupting Islam]

http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=ENGAFR540872006
“Recent months have seen a dramatic increase in the numbers of rapes as Darfur has been plunged into new fighting. In just one camp in Darfur, Kalma camp, the International Rescue Committee reported that rapes of women rose from under four to 200 a month during five weeks in July and August 2006.”


http://www.colorq.org/HumanRights/article.aspx?d=Indonesia&x=Jakarta
Indonesia 1998. Chinese woman forced to watch gang rape and burning death of her sisters
“Another worker at the women's aid center, Ita Nadia, said some women had committed suicide after their ordeals. The reported attacks ranged from the degrading and humiliating to the horrific; from women who were made to strip and perform calisthenics in public to women who were repeatedly raped and then thrown into the flames of burning buildings. The reports involve girls and women ranging in age from 10 to 55, the aid workers said. Some were gang-raped in front of a crowd in the Chinese commercial district of Glodok, said Rita Kolibonso, executive director of the women's group Mitra Perempuan.”
"Some of the rapists said, 'You must be raped because you are Chinese and non-Muslim,"' said Ms. Ita, who works at a crisis center called Kalyana Mitra.”

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/banerjee111006.htm
Excerpt:
“Rape, genocide and gross human rights violations against ethno-cultural groups induce victims to adopt defensive mechanisms. Hindu women in South Asia adopted traditions to protect themselves from Muslim invaders, who perpetrated the largest holocaust in history against Hindus. According to Dr.Younis Shaikh (Pakistani author of the study ‘Islam and Women’), eighty million were slaughtered and millions of women were raped. Sexual violence occurred on a gory and unimaginable scale: it was standard practice for Islamic warlords like Ghori and Ghazni to unleash the mass rape and enslavement of hundreds of thousands of women after the slaughter of all males. A large percentage of Muslims in South Asia today are the progeny of forcible conversions and systematic rape campaigns by marauding Muslim invaders."

Some Indonesian Muslims' attitudes toward rape
http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/014877.php
Their attitudes are not contrary to Islamic law because the woman in question is assumed to be guilty of lewdness.

http://www.christiansofiraq.com/letthemrape.html
July 31, 2006. Islamists in Iraq target and rape 3 Iraqi Christian women; Speaker of the Iraqi National Assembly (Parliament) tells Islamists to rape Christian women instead of Muslim women.

http://www.asianews.it/view.php?l=en&art=7450
11 October, 2006, Baghdad, IRAQ. "Abducted and raped, young Christian women and girls are driven to suicide in Iraq. Iraq’s abduction industry does not spare young women and girls. Despite being released, some are unable to cope with the violence they experienced and kill themselves. In Mosul a Syrian Orthodox priest is kidnapped."

http://www.synergyaids.com/documents/Turkey_GenderSex&CriminalLaws.pdf
Well-researched article. See especially pp. 33-43 on Rape

http://www.iranian.ws/iran_news/publish/article_21508.shtml
Sex Slavery Under the Islamic Republic of Iran
Apr 19, 2007

--------------------------

The idea that, according to Islam, rape is acceptable in marriage is also consistent with the idea that it is acceptable with non-Muslim female slaves and captives, who have even less rights than Muslim wives.

The Hedaya states that a husband may "enjoy [his] wife by force," i.e., that he can rape her. Afghanistan draws predominantly on Hanafi jurisprudence, hence this next story:

“Afganistan's moderate Prez Karzai a Misunderstander of Islam? Signs law "legalizing rape in marriage"

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/025463.php
March 31, 2009


http://www.thememriblog.org/turkey/blog_personal/en/3861.htm
Turkish Court: Marital Rape Not A Crime; Turkish Columnist: Decision Turns Women Into Sex Slaves [Posted at: 2007-11-30]


Historical:

December 7, 2007
Holy Wisdom: Why the Pope should call for the return of the Hagia Sophia.
by Bruce S. Thornton, Private Papers
http://www.victorhanson.com/articles/thornton120706PF.html
"Once known as Constantinople, this [now Istanbul] was one of the great cities of Classical and Christian culture, home to one of Christendom’s most magnificent churches, Hagia Sophia, the church of the Holy Wisdom. On May 29, 1453, Constantinople ceased to exist, falling to the armies of the Sultan Mehmet II: “By noon,” John Julius Norwich writes, “the streets were running red with blood. Houses were ransacked, women and children raped or impaled, churches razed, icons wrenched from their golden frames, books ripped from their silver bindings. . . . In the church of St. Saviour in Chora the mosaics and frescoes were miraculously spared, but the Empire’s holiest icon, the Virgin Hodegetria, said to have been painted by St. Luke himself, was hacked into four pieces and destroyed. The most hideous scenes of all, however, were enacted in the church of the Holy Wisdom. Matins were already in progress when the berserk conquerors were heard approaching. Immediately the great bronze doors were closed; but the Turks soon smashed their way in. The poorer and more unattractive of the congregation were massacred on the spot; the remainder were lashed together and led off to the Turkish camps, for their captors to do with as they liked. As for the officiating priests, they continued with the Mass as long as they could before being killed at the high altar.” "
"We have fewer and fewer men like those who created the West in the teeth of Islamic aggression, men like the Byzantine Greek Lucas Notaras. After the sack of Constantinople, the Sultan demanded Notaras’s beautiful 14-year-old son for the royal harem: “When Notaras still defied the Sultan,” Steven Runciman writes, “orders were given for him and the two boys [his son and son-in-law] to be decapitated on the spot. Notaras merely asked that they should be slain before him, lest the sight of his death should make them waver. When they had both perished, he bared his neck to the executioner.” As Nestor says in the Iliad, “Men like those I have not seen again, nor ever will.” "


‘Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire.’
http://www.ccel.org/g/gibbon/decline/volume2/chap56.htm
"It was the amusement of the Saracens to profane, as well as to pillage, the monasteries and churches. At the siege of Salerno, a Mussulman chief spread his couch on the communion-table, and on that altar sacrificed each night the virginity of a Christian nun. As he wrestled with a reluctant maid, a beam in the roof was accidentally or dexterously thrown down on his head; and the death of the lustful emir was imputed to the wrath of Christ, which was at length awakened to the defence of his faithful spouse. (10) A.D. 874"


Early Islam, another example:

The Muslims' attack on Dhul-Khalasa, from http://muslim-quotes.netfirms.com/islamstart.html :
" THE BOOK OF IDOLS
BEING A TRANSLATION FROM THE ARABIC
OF THE KITAB AL-ASNAM
BY HISHAM IBN-AL-KALBI
(d. A.H. 206/ A.D. 821-822)
Excerpt:
A certain woman of the banu-Khath'am thereupon said:
"The banu-Umamah, each wielding his spear, Were slaughtered at al-Wahyab[19], their abode; They came to defend their shrine, only to find Lions with brandished swords clamoring for blood. The women of the Khath'am were, then, humiliated By the men of the Abmas, and abased."

Quote from Ghazali:

The famous Sufi scholar and Sunni jurist Al-Ghazali (1058–1111) said the objectives and methods of Islam are to:
"...suppress the enemies of religion through the jihad in His cause, and to gain their wealth, women, and lands until they surrender to Islam."

So, the rapists are " asylum seekers ". They surely came to the right place as the entire Europe has become a big asylum !

Damian,

That's all I'm going to post, re rape, for now. Suffice it to say that there is no reason to expect that Muslim men will stop raping non-Muslim women at such disproportionately high rates in Europe unless something major is done to solve the problem. The main problem right now is getting most people to even be aware that this is happening.

p.s.
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/over-50-us-churches-to-hold-quran-readings.html#comment-790761
"At some point I will get round to answering Kinana’s questions about why I am deeply troubled by aspects of the nature of Robert Spencer’s “crusade” against Islam, and why I post what I do on Jihad Watch, but I think I have posted far more than enough for now."

I think as I said before you seem to have misunderstood Robert's statements, and he did not call for a "crusade" against Islam as a mere personal faith. I had already addressed that with a link to quotes from Robert's 2005 book.


Gravenimage,

As I recall, Unni Wikan claimed she was misquoted or otherwise denies making that statement.

Well, in some respects we Christians have made the rest of society obey the laws of the Bible.

Why do you think heterosexual monogamy is the prevailing pattern of marriage over most of the Western world? Why is Sunday a day of rest? How come we have little patience with people who expect the right of private vengeance? Why are oaths taken so seriously that perjury is considered a serious crime? Why did European colonialists forbid suttee in India and bringing home an enemy head to prove manhood in certain other places? Why is cousin marriage often frowned upon? How come even the most fanatical monarchists among us Westerners stop short of recognizing their kings as gods on earth? Even our Western idea that law trumps the royal will has its roots in Deuteronomy 17:18-19 (and if you don't believe me, look at the print battles between advocates of royal absolutism and monarchomachs back in the 16th and 17th centuries).

And, I daresay that much of what moderns find repulsive in Islam (hudud punishments which, contrary to what the MSM tells you, are NOT from the Old Testament; woman as chattel; widespread pedophilia; glorification of war; self-righteousness; love of vengeance; quickness to wrath) are repulsive because so many of us had Bible-reading grandparents.

Words fail me for now to express my appreciation of your so informative educating and vindicating response to Damian, Kinana. I will use your information for ure. Many Thanks and fond greetings.

From 'Frontpage Magazine', five years ago.


Symposium: 'To Rape an Unveiled Woman'.

The original front page archival link is very slow to load, so I'm giving a different link, to another site that contains a full copy of the text.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1591543/posts


A discussion between four people:

Pierre Rehov, a French filmmaker who has filmed six documentaries on the Palestinian Intifada. His new documentary, Suicide Killers, explores the psychology of suicide bombers. It is based on interviews with the victims of suicide bombers, the families of suicide bombers, would-be bombers themselves, and experts on suicide killer mentality.

Nancy Kobrin, an affiliated professor to the University of Haifa, Arabist, psychoanalyst and author of the upcoming book, The Sheikh's New Clothes: Islamic Suicide Terror and What It's Really All About;

Peter Raddatz, a German scholar of Islamic Studies and the co-author of the renowned “Encyclopaedia of Islam.”

He is the author of many books, including From Allah to Terror? Jihad and the Western Deformation, Allah's Veil and The Turkish Danger. In a few months he will publish World Risk Iran.

and

Gudrun Eussner, a journalist with a Ph.D at Free University Berlin, specializing in mass communication and political science, and Iranian philology. She has experience working in numerous Muslim countries, including Bosnia, Indonesia, Kuwait, Malaysia, Morocco, Pakistan, Turkey, Usbekistan and others."

A man is entitled to engage in sexual intercourse with his wife anytime he wishes


This rule is based on verse 2.223 of the Quran and a number of Hadith, amongst others, Bukhari 7.62.81, 7.62.121, 7.62.122

2.223. Your wives are for you like a harvest-producing field. So, go to your field as you may desire. And manage some provisions for yourselves for the next world. Inculcate in yourselves Allah’s fear and be mindful that you have to appear before Him. And, (O Beloved,) give good news to the believers (that their appearance before Allah will be gainful for them).

The Quran commentary (tafsir) by Ibn Kathir, based on reliable hadith/traditions of Bukhari, Muslim, and Abu Dawood, states that Quran verse 2.223 deals with sex; see the following link. According to this verse, a husband must have unrestricted access to his wife’s body anytime he wants. Since the Quran for the most part is addressed to men, nothing is mentioned about satisfying the sexual needs of the woman.

Tradition of Bukhari 7.62.81:
Narrated 'Uqba: The Prophet said: "The stipulations most entitled to be abided by are those with which you are given the right to enjoy the (women's) private parts (i.e. the stipulations of the marriage contract)."

Tradition of Bukhari 7.62.121:
Narrated Abu Huraira: The Prophet said, "If a man Invites his wife to sleep with him and she refuses to come to him, then the angels send their curses on her till morning."

Page 525 of the shariah manual “Reliance of the Traveller“ states that the obligation of a wife is to give sex whenever he asks for it, within the limitations of her own religious duties. That means she is exempt during menstration or postnatal bleeding or in the month of Ramadan during the day, when fasting includes refraining from sexual intercourse.

This duty to provide sex to her husband whenever he wants to, not when she feels like, has brought legislators in islamic societies to consider marital rape as non-existent. When a man takes the right that Islam has given him, why should he be punished for it?

With news coming from Afghanistan where NATO forces have been fighting so-called “extremists” to bring a modern society, people in the West are outraged that a democratically elected Parliament votes a law that allows marital rape. Well, legislators in Afghanistan just apply a logical interpretation of Shariah law, and they never made any secret of it. This should be a wake-up call for those who were thinking that Shariah law must be alright because it is based on divine scriptures.

A woman is not allowed to fast outside of Ramadan except with her husband’s permission:

If a woman wants to do extra fasting outside of Ramadan which is a recommendable deed and even necessary to catch up for the days of her menstruation during the previous Ramadan, she needs to ask permission from her husband because she will not be available to satisfy his sexual needs during those days (between dawn and sunset). See § (3) on page 682 below:

The rule comes from the following Hadith:

Bukhari 7.62.120:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "A woman should not fast (optional fasts) except with her husband's permission if he is at home (staying with her)."

Bukhari 7.62.123:
Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah's Apostle said, "It is not lawful for a lady to fast (Nawafil) without the permission of her husband when he is at home; and she should not allow anyone to enter his house except with his permission; and if she spends of his wealth (on charitable purposes) without being ordered by him, he will get half of the reward."

A man is entitled to engage in sexual intercourse with his wife anytime he wishes.

I notice in the video that the interviewed rape victim is a blond. Lara Logan is a blond, and she was brutalized in Tahir Square, Cairo by pro- and anti-Mubarak Muslims. But I don't think the rapes of non-Muslim women are limited to blonds. Yes, the Muslim rapist is obeying the Koran and Hadith by "enslaving" a non-Muslim woman. Hes "in charge" and his every whim is sanctioned by his religion. But the true motive is to destroy the good for being the good, to extinguish it by brutalizing and humiliating it. Islam is a nihilist ideology, and the sooner the Norwegians, Swedes, and Danes (and British) wake up to that fact, the sooner they will be able to combat Islam in the courts. The sooner they grasp that to rape a non-Muslim woman is to rape all Western society and "do one's bit" to overthrow Western civilization.

What happened to Lara Logan was not gang rape. It was more in the nature of "crowd" rape.

One of the characteristics of any society, except a primitive tribal society, is that generally, a woman is safe in a crowd. A crowd is made up of all sorts of people, and most of them are decent and civilised - particularly so of a crowd supposedly protesting for freedom and democracy. So if a woman is seriously molested, she can start screaming (which is what Lara Logan did). The natural instinct of men would then impel them to come to the aid of the woman. This is the situation in virtually all parts of the world. Gang rape OTH, is conducted by a gang who share the same uncivilised values, and they conduct the gang rape away from a crowd, or else they would be beaten senseless. Gang rapists know that they are operating not just outside the law but outside the norm of the society they are in.

In Egypt something else happened. Lara Logan was in a crowd, so she naturally assumed that she was safe. What she didnt realise is that Muslims have a different view of women and their place in society. Arab Muslims are also a tribe, and they share the same values as regards women. A woman who is not of their tribe then automatically becomes prey to their aggression. Lara Logan's screams in such a crowd, far from rescuing her, only led to the crowd getting even more excited. The rapists knew that unlike gang rapists elsewhere, the crowd shared their values. This behaviour is one of a primitive tribe when it comes into contact with an unprotected woman of another tribe.

Where are all the feminists when it comes to this kind of treatment of women? Why are they not raising alarm?

Despite their protests to the contrary, it seems they truly are a one-interest group: unlimited abortion for all. These rapists can do what they like, as long as abortion is accessible. Disgusting!

Wow!

Fantastic work there, Kinana.

I bow down to you and your diligence.

I bow in humility.
That was some work! Well done!

I remember reading about two ethnic Swedish girls. The lived in an area heavily settled by Muslim immigrants, and in order to be quite simply left alone the girl were obliged to color their blond hair dark.
It being the general opinion among the young Muslim males of the area that blond Swedish girls were no better than sluts and to be treated accordingly.

It was on a market day in Denmark three years ago, a 14-year old girl met four Iraqi men from the Muslim Street near where I live. They dragged her off to a quiet spot and there raped her in all possible ways I won't describe here.
I again read what she experienced, I read what it has meant to her, I very much doubt she'll ever recover completely ....and I again have trouble keeping the tears back.

All four of course will be sent back to Iraq the moment they exit the prison gate, it should be obvious to anyone ...and one of them thought it necessary to threaten the prosecutor on his life during the trial.

demsci and Istanbul Chick,

Thanks for those generous remarks. It is really the sharing of information here, and the work of sites like JW and TheReligionofPeace, as well as fjordman's work several years ago, that makes it easier for readers such as myself and others, to assemble files on this important topic.

Unfortunately some of my posted links above are no longer active, and attempting to update them all now (where that's even possible) would be too time-consuming.

Some additional links (currently active) for resources on this topic:

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Rape_in_Islam

http://fjordman.blogspot.com/

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Muhammad/myths-mu-rape.htm


You might also be interested in this account from a self-labeled progressive reformer Muslim, where he acknowledges that there exists a widespread acceptance, among traditional Muslim jurists, of rape of non-Muslim female captives and slaves. (I disagree with his view that the Quran doesn't allow it, but at least he is acknowledging the mainstream view):

Excerpt:

"[...] Finally, in late Spring of 2005, the day came which turned out to be the last day I ever went to this fiqh class. I happened to meet one of the other students shortly before class, and I asked him how he thought we should respond to the need for revision, especially considering that our textbook was based on a work more than six hundred years old. The other student replied, there was not much need to revise the traditional thought, but maybe only add something in those places where the traditional scholars were silent. No need at all to change anything substantial. I asked him about slavery and sex with slaves, and he suggested I ask the shaikh. And so I did. And so it came as it had to come. When the class reached the five minute break, I asked the Shaikh, whether it was permitted for a male master to sleep with slave women against their will. He immediately said yes, and he added this was agreed upon by all four Sunni schools - Shafi'i, Hanafi, Maliki and Hanbali. I asked to clarify, so if there was a slave market today, I could go and buy a fourteen year old girl just in order to sleep with her? He said yes, and he added, not only was it permitted, it was also common practice among early Muslims. Ali Ibn Abi Talib, the shaikh said, had children from his slaves. The class was shocked, especially the female students. One female student asked, what if the slave woman did not want to? The sheikh affirmed that this was not relevant. Another female student asked, whether this was still applicable today? The shaikh did not address this question - he did not seem to understand what the student meant by "applicable" - but he added that when agreements against slavery came up the Muslim countries "were the first ones to sign". The shaikh said sex slavery was perfectly according to the Qur'an. I later checked with a more reform-oriented scholar who assured me that the Qur'an does not permit this kind of abuse of human beings. Now let me be absolutely clear that this was more than just the words of a crazy fiqh teacher. What our shaikh told us is perfectly in line with the consensus of more than thousand years of Islamic scholarship. Let me spell it out: It is permitted (halal) according to all traditional schools (madhabs) to have sexual intercourse with slave girls of the age of nine years or above against their will and without marrying them. And when I say according to the traditional schools, I mean it was consensus among the scholars of all classic schools of Islamic law be it Sunni or Shia. It is all over the classic sources of Islamic law where this issue is elaborated to great detail. Now what the past scholars said is one thing, how modern Muslim scholars deal with it is another. Unfortunately, the question is rarely asked, because most Muslims are unaware of the problems, but if it is asked, traditionally oriented scholars fail to condemn sex slavery. Even some of the most influential contemporary scholars are defending and justifying sex slavery [1] [...]."

http://www.averroes-foundation.org/articles/sex_slavery.html

http://www.averroes-foundation.org/articles/sex_slavery_addendum.html

Steffen,

--thanks, I just saw your post.

Kinana of Khaybar wrote:

Gravenimage,

As I recall, Unni Wikan claimed she was misquoted or otherwise denies making that statement.
.....................

I'm actually quite familiar with this controversy, and considered whether to cite it here. I finally decided against it, since it didn't seem entirely relevant—perhaps I should have reconsidered. Still, I have read up on the background of the story, and *still* consider her words deeply disturbing.

It is true that Unni Wikan is actually critical of unrestrained immigration into Norway—but her attitude seems to be that now that they are here, Norwegian girls have to watch what they do. Western values no longer prevail in Norway, and we have to accept that.

"I will not blame Norwegian women for the rapes. But Norwegian women must understand that we live in a multi-cultural society and adapt themselves to it."

"In most places people think that it is the woman who holds the blame for the rape. And it is reasonable that immigrants take with them such attitudes when they flee here to the country," says the professor, who herself has lived many years in Muslim lands."

Here's an article on the controversy:

http://islamineurope.blogspot.com/2007/04/norway-professor-unni-wikan-on-rape.html

And kudos on your posts responding to "Damian", Kinana. Very impressive.

Kinana,

Apologies for the laggardly reply, but allow me to join in the chorus of gratitude for all the work you have done here in collating this information - we are all greatly indebted to you. I think you are right that more people ought to be aware of this apparent trend, and thanks to your efforts anyone interested in finding out more, and who googles the key terms, will sooner or later come across this page and the wealth of information you have provided. Sincerely: huge thanks again.

Of course, there is a whole lot to take in here, and it will take me a while to sift through it all, to check the reliability of the sources and so on, before formulating a properly informed opinion regarding the hypothesis in question (viz., that the seemingly disproportionate number of sexual assaults carried out by Muslim males in certain Western societies is properly attributable to the religious beliefs of the perpetrators of these crimes). For now I will admit that you have presented a reasonably persuasive prima facie case for this claim, and it is undoubtedly an extremely important issue that absolutely cries out for further investigation (and of a far more detailed and thorough kind than it has seemingly received up to now).

With regard to your initial statement about the "criminal negligence" of Western governments who do not impose extensive restrictions on Muslim immigration, I wonder if I could press you a little more on what kinds of steps you think ought to be taken. Do you, for example, believe that it ought to become the official policy of Western governments to restrict Muslim immigrants specifically? If you do, what reasons do you think ought to be presented as legitimation for such a policy, and what do you think the likely ramifications might be?

Of course, feel no obligation to reply (you have already gone way above and beyond the call of duty with your posts above), but if you have any further thoughts on this I'd be very interested to hear them.

Finally, regarding this:

"I think as I said before you seem to have misunderstood Robert's statements, and he did not call for a "crusade" against Islam as a mere personal faith. I had already addressed that with a link to quotes from Robert's 2005 book."

I can honestly say that I do not recall you addressing the issue of Spencer's use of the term "crusade" at all, much less you correcting my misunderstanding of it. Do you happen to recall where you posted these comments?

Damian,

Thanks for the questions, as this has given me an opportunity to review the material, and indeed there is much room for improvement. It also highlights the limitations in the data available, suggesting that the authorities are not permitting enough research in this area, or perhaps not enough researchers are taking this on. Nevertheless, I think there's enough there to give a general outline of what we are dealing with.

You write:

"...the hypothesis in question (viz., that the seemingly disproportionate number of sexual assaults carried out by Muslim males in certain Western societies is properly attributable to the religious beliefs of the perpetrators of these crimes)."

Instead of only using the term religion, I would also use terms like deen, social-worldview, cultural attitudes, laws and rules of conduct, etc., of Islam; "religion" (as we understand it in the West) has a somewhat different meaning, to most Westerners, nowadays. Islam is a religion, but much more than that.

You write:
"Do you, for example, believe that it ought to become the official policy of Western governments to restrict Muslim immigrants specifically? If you do, what reasons do you think ought to be presented as legitimation for such a policy, and what do you think the likely ramifications might be?"

I haven't thought this through as much as have others here. Here are some simple ideas I am expressing as I write, so take them with that in mind. Ideally, governments of non-Muslim countries, such as Western governments, should restrict immigration of those Muslims who support jihad and sharia, and/or who hold the types of anti-non-Muslim and anti-female attitudes that are associated with, or statistically predictive of, highly dangerous and destructive actions such as rape, murder, terrorism, etc.

How do we actually screen for these sorts of things? Should we put every individual to the test, or rather, do we practically have the resources, time, and money, to do so? Can we trust the validity of the tests (say, as additions to the existing immigration filtering processes)? I think a combination of (a) outright stoppage of immigration of Sunni and Shia Muslims from the many countries which I will call "social basket-cases" such as Pakistan, Somalia, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Egypt, etc. (i.e., most Muslim-majority countries), and (b) individualized screening of Muslims from non-Muslim countries. (a) may seem unjust; however, with limited time and resources, we may have no choice but to simply block Muslim immigration from such countries. It would be largely a waste of time to bother with individual screening when the majority of Muslims in a country think apostates, blasphemers, adulterers should be put to death. Basically, Sunni and Shia Muslims from any country that institutes sharia to any significant extent, and wherein there are widely-accepted anti-woman and anti-non-Muslim attitudes, anti-homosexual attitudes, anti-apostate and anti-"blasphemer" beliefs, tolerance of "honor killings," female genital mutilation, etc., constitute too high a risk, for immediate and long-term problems, to be members of modern Western societies. If we find, as we see in some of the journalists' interviews with young Muslim males in Europe, the sorts of utterly contemptible (and potentially very dangerous and harmful) attitudes toward non-Muslim women, blaming them for being raped, etc., then clearly such people do not belong in any Western society (or, frankly, any society on earth). Clearly, these problems that they have would need to be fixed before the question of them immigrating to the West to live, in the first place, could be rationally considered. "Fixing" these problems could take decades or centuries within the countries or regions of origin. Yet the countries of origin are doing nothing to rectify these problems; instead, what we see as problems are not necessarily seen as problems by them. They have been headed in the direction of increasing sharia, jihad, and fervor, for the past approximately four decades.

I think we can make some exceptions for dissidents (i.e., those who have a proven track record of opposing sharia and jihad, provided they meet individualized screening criteria).

There are a variety of other legal and policy considerations that would be outside my area of knowledge, even as a layman, but these would have to be clearly taken into account in immigration arrangements with other countries, involving Muslims or anyone else. For example, do we (let's say, the U.K.) have an extradition treaty with the country in question, such that if someone immigrates legally, then commits a serious crime, and then, to avoid arrest, escapes back to the country of origin, we can obtain cooperation with the country of origin to extradite that suspect back to the U.K. for prosecution? It would be foolish, for example, to allow immigration from countries that wouldn't agree with some reasonable extradition agreement. That is, it would be foolish to allow in people who can commit a serious crime and escape back to the country of origin with impunity.

----------------------

Re Robert's crusade statements, perhaps erroneously, I thought I'd posted a response to you about this, but I can't find it. Anyways, I have found the link, which I thought I had posted, where I addressed someone else who claimed that Robert called for a crusade against Islam, war against Islam, etc.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/05/egyptian-convert-endures-life-at.html#comment-678827

Yes, Islam give Muslim men sexual privileges of extreme domination and control (essence of rape). It is in the blatantly in the Quran, and demonstrated in the sayings and actions of Muhammad (Sunnah/Haddith). Even wives are not respected, as the Quran tells husbands they may "plow their fields (wives) as they see fit."

Women of the world, here is self-defense tip against sexual jihad: A man is most vulnerable when he is inside a woman. A violent torquing of the hip bones can damage the penis and even break it off. (Women in the FBI, CIA, and some law enforcement jobs are taught this tip.) Also reaching around and grabbing a testicle will stop a rape (and perhaps even a next one) also.

"Crowd rape".

Several years ago I saw a documentary on TV. I don't remember the particulars but I believe they were as follows:
Travelling by London cab from London to India! At some point well into the Middle East (Pakistan?) they stopped in a village square and the villagers (all men) crowded around the car and the travellers, one of whom - a woman - stood outside the car. Now, suddenly she exclaimed: "let me in ..they're touching me!".
Even with the neighbors watching, and the TV camera running, they had to feel her up.

Thanks for your reply. While I of course agree that people who believe that apostates should be killed, that rape of unveiled women is permissible etc., have no place in modern secular society (or even, as you say, in any society on earth), I think at the present time we simply do not have sufficient detailed and reliable information regarding the prevalence of such opinions amongst Muslims (especially those who live in European and other non-Muslim countries). For example, while it does indeed appear to be the case that there are an indeterminate number of British Pakistani men who groom young white girls for sex, I very seriously doubt that such behaviour is condoned by anything like the majority of British Muslims. I also very seriously doubt that any of these men do what they do because (as you suggested in your first post above) they are "jihadists" and believe themselves to be acting on the basis of Islamic doctrine. Indeed, it would frankly amaze me if these men were even aware of any of the passages from the Qur'an and hadith you cite above (and incidentally: I also think it's a damn good job that they don't get to hear about them!). Men such as these, I suspect, far from being "religious fanatics", are not in fact motivated by religion at all, and at most find it expedient to mention loyalty to Islam when e.g. defending their misogynistic attitudes (e.g. chastising their "sisters" for dating white men - but then black men do the same, citing disloyalty to their race, and a sense of inferiority and powerlessness lies behind both). While most such men will proudly tell you they are Muslims, and probably even believe that this somehow makes them better than other people, I very much doubt that they pray five times a day (or even once), study Islamic scripture and law (or indeed read at all), fast, give to charity, or even regularly attend mosque. Rather, I suspect that such men devote most of their time obtaining flashy cars, clothes, jewellery, phones, video games etc., indulging in petty crime, driving around with their stereos blasting out loud hip-hop music, watching pornography, drinking alcohol and smoking marijuana, etc. Such men are doubtless misogynists, and doubtless much of this misogyny comes from their Islamic background and is rife in their communities. However, there are equally obviously also other influences in play, such as popular black street-culture stemming from the US and the Caribbean. Indeed, I suspect that if proper sociological work were to be done in this area one would find that much the same misogynistic and degrading attitudes toward women one finds among Muslim males are also to found found among Afro-Caribbeans. It is also the case that a hugely disproportionate number of crimes (e.g. violent crime, knife and gun crime, robberies and theft, as well as sexual offences) in the UK are committed by young men of Afro-Caribbean descent. Should we, then, insist that there be extensive restrictions upon immigration from the Caribbean too? I don't know: perhaps we should? However, what I know for a fact is that the only people who publicly calling for such policies in the UK are extreme right-wing fascists. Indeed, the leader of the BNP used precisely the same arguments as you have done above in order to incite hatred against British Muslims and thereby win popular support for his party:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2006/jan/18/race.religion

The ethically appropriate response to Islamic supremacism, intolerance, bigotry, misogyny etc. is not, I suggest, the demonisation of Muslims as evil, subhuman parasites; regrettably, however, sites such as this do indeed tend to give rise to such attitudes: sadly, the calls for the "race" of Muslim "sand monkeys" to be "annihilated" to be found on this thread are by no means untypical.

There is much more to be said, of course, but I'll have to leave it at that for now.

P.S. Apologies for various typos in last post...

Damian,

You write: "The ethically appropriate response to Islamic supremacism, intolerance, bigotry, misogyny etc. is not, I suggest, the demonisation of Muslims as evil, subhuman parasites; regrettably, however, sites such as this do indeed tend to give rise to such attitudes: sadly, the calls for the "race" of Muslim "sand monkeys" to be "annihilated" to be found on this thread are by no means untypical."

I agree. All of that is inappropriate, to say the least. But you don't address the question you yourself asked me, which was what ought to be done about all of this.

The question you asked me had to do with what non-Muslims countries, such as those in Europe, should do about the fact that most of the rapes are committed by Muslim males. Do you propose these European countries in question should do nothing--that is, nothing different from the status quo?

As for the rest of your post, it seems to be drifting off of point, and you don't cite any evidence to support your claims Islamic religion and culture having no role in producing men who think it's okay to rape uncovered non-Muslim women.

And while we are certainly lacking (relatively speaking) in data about the beliefs of Muslims, including Muslim who live in non-Muslim countries, such as those in Europe, it's not as though there is no data, or that we know nothing. (You may be unaware of this data). I could cite plenty of poll data that shows for example that U.K. Muslims by and large simply aren't ready to be living in British society (e.g., the majority want those who merely criticize Islam to be criminally prosecuted and punished--data I've cited so many times here I'll let you search the archives if you're not already aware of it). When we add up all of these problems, we see that there is a special problem with Islam and Muslims that far exceeds that of any other group.

I get the distinct impression that either you have some kind of pre-set bias against criticizing Islam and Muslims, or that you simply are not aware of the data that I'm familiar with. For example, your earlier questions to me in this thread seem to have come from someone who hasn't really followed the news regarding the problems with Islam, and doesn't seem to have a grasp of the source texts, the widespread attitudes of Muslims today, and so on. There is an "anthropologist from Mars," or perhaps, to use a different analogy, a "Rip Van Winkle" type of impression that I get from your question. That's odd, because you present yourself, or characterize yourself, as someone who is knowledgeable about Islam and Muslims. If you are knowledgeable, why are you presenting as though you know next to nothing about the most important aspects of it?

Damian,

"However, what I know for a fact is that the only people who publicly calling for such policies in the UK are extreme right-wing fascists. Indeed, the leader of the BNP used precisely the same arguments as you have done above in order to incite hatred against British Muslims and thereby win popular support for his party"

If you think my arguments are "precisely the same" as the leader of the BNP's, you are incorrect. You have failed to cite any example of where any of his arguments are the same as mine.

"But you don't address the question you yourself asked me, which was what ought to be done about all of this."

If you recall, I wasn't the one recommending any solutions, and as far as I am aware you have not asked me what I think ought to be done. I asked you if you would kindly provide the citations and data to back up your claims; you did this and I expressed my gratitude to you. I also said that I agreed with you that it would be desirable to limit the immigration of Muslims to the West, but expressed concern about the potential ramifications should Western countries adopt such an anti-Islamic stance as a matter of official policy. You have responded by making some suggestions about the kinds of people you think ought to be barred from entry into Western/democratic countries, and I agreed with you about this. However, this was not really what I was asking. Rather, I asked whether you think Western countries should adopt immigration laws which openly discriminate against Muslims as a matter of official policy, and if so what you think the ramifications of announcing and implementing such a policy might be. To the extent that I disagree with you it is that whereas you seem certain that these immigrants commit these atrocious criminal acts against women because they are promoted by the Qur'an as legitimate acts of religious struggle (jihad), I am not at all convinced that this is the case.

If you are now asking me what I think ought to be done about women being sexually abused by Muslim men, my answer is simply that every effort should be made to catch them and bring them to justice, as any other perpetrator of such crimes ought to be. I have also suggested that more research ought to be done in order to investigate the kinds of correlations you have pointed to and to test the kinds of hypothesis you have forwarded (i.e. that Muslim men are more likely to commit rape than non-Muslim men, and that Muslim men who commit such acts typically do so on the grounds that they believe it to be sanctioned by Islamic scripture and/or are in fact jihadists using rape as a weapon of war, etc.).

"As for the rest of your post, it seems to be drifting off of point, and you don't cite any evidence to support your claims Islamic religion and culture having no role in producing men who think it's okay to rape uncovered non-Muslim women."

I did not drift "off of point" at all: you suggested that some Muslim men groom and rape non-Muslim girls because Islamic religious scriptures promote such acts as legitimate weapons of war, and I suggested that I suspect that such men, far from being religious fanatics, are typically hardly religious at all and do not regard themselves as waging jihad or anything along those lines. You say that I claim that "Islamic religion and culture [have] no role in producing men who think it's okay to rape uncovered non-Muslim women", but this is simply untrue. What I wrote was the following: "Such men are doubtless misogynists, and doubtless much of this misogyny comes from their Islamic background and is rife in their communities. However, there are equally obviously also other influences in play, such as popular black street-culture stemming from the US and the Caribbean." Please note: to say that Islamic religion and culture is not solely responsible for such and such behaviour is not at all to suggest that they play no role whatsoever in the same. (This really ought not to have needed clarifying, since what I wrote was neither long nor unclear).

I then went on to point out that a hugely disproportionate amount of violent crime in the UK is committed by people of Afro-Caribbean descent and asked you if you believe that there should also be extensive restrictions upon immigration from the Caribbean too - a question which you have apparently chosen to avoid.

As for your puzzlement about my questions, I can only say that I am puzzled by your puzzlement. Which of my questions suggest to you that I am ignorant of Islamic scripture and do not follow the news?

Finally, I would have though it obvious which argument you share with Nick Griffin simply by comparing your comments here and the piece from the Guardian I linked to above: i.e. that argument that claims there is an epidemic of Muslim men raping non-Muslim women; that these men do this because the Qur'an sanctions such behaviour; and that for this reason there should be extensive restrictions upon Muslim immigration.

Sorry: obviously, all of last post was in response to Kinana.

Damian,

What more can I tell you? I don't agree with Nick Griffin on any of the comments attributed to him in the Guardian article you linked to, nor do I agree with him in general, as far as what I know about him.

"To the extent that I disagree with you it is that whereas you seem certain that these immigrants commit these atrocious criminal acts against women because they are promoted by the Qur'an as legitimate acts of religious struggle (jihad), I am not at all convinced that this is the case."

But I don't think that, and never claimed that. The idea that a Muslim who rapes does so simply because the Quran says Muslim men don't have to guard their private parts when they are with their wives and their female "right hand possessions" is absurd.

There are numerous problems with your claims about my claims, and I just don't have time to address them.

p.s. I notified JW about the foul comment (re "sand monkeys") from an unknown poster above. Your claim that JW encourages such remarks is unfounded.

You wrote:

"I then went on to point out that a hugely disproportionate amount of violent crime in the UK is committed by people of Afro-Caribbean descent and asked you if you believe that there should also be extensive restrictions upon immigration from the Caribbean too - a question which you have apparently chosen to avoid."

For one thing, it's off topic. For another, I have limited time. I don't know enough about the U.K. to comment on this question, but, on the face of it, no, I don't think there should be extensive restrictions for those source countries. Significantly higher crime rates from any country of origin of immigration would certainly call for review and study, and then possible changes in screening, policy, etc., but for you to ask me to comment on this, without you presenting anything like a case for it (which would again be investing further time in off topic pursuits), really doesn't seem warranted.

I'm deleting the "sand monkeys" comment, as we delete anything of that sort as soon as we see it or it is brought to our attention (thanks, Kinana).

That's how it works, and now you've seen the system in action. I hope you're satisfied, Damian.

Kinana,

I just wrote a fairly lengthy reply but accidentally closed the window and don't have the time or patience to write it again. But briefly: to see that I did not, in fact, mischaracterise your claims, you only need to reread for yourself your first comment on this thread. Your opening claim is also precisely the same claim made by Nick Griffin as reported in the Guardian article I linked to.

Thanks Marisol - though I should say that I do not really support this kind of censorship. Indeed, rather than expunging such comments I think it might be a good idea for Robert Spencer, yourself and whoever else is responsible for Jihad Watch, to note their prevalence on this site and to ask yourselves honestly whether or not this website may be at least partially responsible for inspiring this kind of xenophobic hatred. I have lost count of the number of times I have seen people here refer to Muslims in general as evil, devils, savages, animals, non- or sub-human, beasts, mudslimes, sand monkeys, kuranimals, vermin, and so on. More worrying still are the regular exhortations to "nuke" Arab countries, to deport all Muslims (that is, tens of millions of people) from Western countries, or else to "annihilate this race" (and by the way, you missed one such remark on this thread, by Leo Fi above: but again, rather than deleteing such comments, I would prefer you to note and think about how such attitudes may be incited or fostered by this site).

Thanks Marisol - though I should say that I do not really support this kind of censorship. Indeed, rather than expunging such comments I think it might be a good idea for Robert Spencer, yourself and whoever else is responsible for Jihad Watch, to note their prevalence on this site and to ask yourselves honestly whether or not this website may be at least partially responsible for inspiring this kind of xenophobic hatred. I have lost count of the number of times I have seen people here refer to Muslims in general as evil, devils, savages, animals, non- or sub-human, beasts, mudslimes, sand monkeys, kuranimals, vermin, and so on. More worrying still are the regular exhortations to "nuke" Arab countries, to deport all Muslims (that is, tens of millions of people) from Western countries, or else to "annihilate this race" (and by the way, you missed one such remark on this thread, by Leo Fi above: but again, rather than deleteing such comments, I would prefer you to note and think about how such attitudes may be incited or fostered by this site).

Damian,

You wrote:

"I share your concerns, and agree that it would be desirable to limit the immigration of Muslims to the West."

On that, by your impressionistic (and fantasy-based) methodology, then you "agree precisely" with Nick Griffin.

How about that? Damian agrees with Nick Griffin. I have to say, I am shocked. Damian, I think you've been reading too many unhinged loony commenters at JW. What has happened to you?!

"but again, rather than deleteing such comments, I would prefer you to note and think about how such attitudes may be incited or fostered by this site"

Without making any citations to show how this is true, This is a ridiculous and libelous statement, and you join the number of other trolls who have made this same statement with just as much evidence (that is NONE).

HOW does RS and this site promote hatred? If you are such a staunch defender of freedom against Islam as you claim, why are you repeating propaganda used by Islamic supremiscist apologists and liberal stooges?

(That was aimed at Damian of course)

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