Over 50 U.S. churches to hold Qur'an readings

You know, I already felt like crying this morning after reading the Miami Herald Editorial I posted -

http://www.miamiherald.com/2011/05/17/2221405/the-shadow-of-terrorism-again.html#disqus_thread

- but now after reading this about 50 churches reading Koran verses I'm just feeling hopeless.

How can this be happening? Why has insanity taken over the West?

RS - You are a bulwark upon whom we all rely. Thank You.

"Tad Stahnke ... said he hopes the initiative will draw attention to religious freedom and counter negative stereotypes of Christian leaders making anti-Muslim statements."

The only way for Christian leaders (or any Christian at all, for that matter) to stop making anti-Moslem statements is for them to stop being Christian. Every time a priest or minister recites "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost", he makes an anti-Moslem statement. Every time a Christian refers to Jesus Christ as 'the Savior", "the Redeemer', or "the Lord", he makes an anti-Moslem statement.
When one considers the evil that is Islam, one realizes that we need all the anti-Moslem statements we can get.

"Leaders of the two Washington-based groups said the event hopes to demonstrate respect for Islam in the wake of Quran burnings in recent months."

Let's change this....

Leaders of the two Egyptian-based groups said the event hopes to demonstrate respect for Christianity in the wake of numerous Coptic Church burnings in recent months.

Much better.

The alternate headline could be: 50 U.S. churches totally corrupted by Satan. I'd like a list of those churches, so I can ensure that I never set foot in them.

"So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son." But Allah does have three daughters...
http://crombouke.blogspot.com/2010/01/tawhid-or-tawheed-versus-christian.html

These so clled "Christian" churches are NOT! Have they forgotten that light(of Christ) has nothing in common with darkness(Islam)? except that the light(Christ) will over come the darkness(Islam)! John the apostle says that those who deny the Son do not belong the Father and they do not have eternal life! I John 5:1-12

This is foolishness of the highest order.

“We want to send a message to the world,” he said, “that Americans do respect religious differences and reject religious bigotry and the demonization of Islam or any other religion.”. It is a shame that the respect for religious differences is not reciprocated, the religious bigotry is far more prevalent in Islam and as Robert has pointed out, demonisation of other religions is a mainstream theme of the koran.

One can only hope that in one of these readings, there is a slip-up, one of these damning verses is uttered and someone actually notices.

“that Americans do respect religious differences and reject religious bigotry and the demonization of Islam or any other religion.”

Ahh... but here at Indonesia the muslim attack and burn churches in both big cities and small villages just because an unfounded issue of blasphemy, just because the place of worship was a christian home, just because the local government does not issue license for the place of worship and the muslims feel it is within their right to burn churches and other religious buildings.

Every Friday muslims who attend mosques overflowing to streets and block most part of the cities, but when a church is banned from worship because of license issue and her members forced to conduct worship outside the church or sometime beside a river, muslims will arrive to protest and beat christians and throw them to river for not praying in proper place(which is banned by them).

Do Rev. Welton Gaddy thinks Indonesian christians need to demonized Islam when the muslims have done enough demonizing in the name of their Allah? or do he thinks we too shall hold Qur'an reading in our churches?

Christians everywhere should consider the possibility that islam is the antichrist:

"..those who do not receive the mark of the beast on his right hand.." - I propose that 'mark' does not mean a physical mark, but it means 'setting aside' or 'assigning a special place or function to'. Now, don't the mahounds have all kinds of special rules as to what must and must not be done with the right hand?

"..may not buy and sell.." - I propose 'buy and sell' means engaging freely in economic activity, free access to career opportunities etc. Now haven't kuffars always been suffering all kinds of restrictions to jobs and business opportunities in islamic lands?

On a brighter note, at least some televangelists like Van Impe, Pat Robertson and Ron Paisley have dared to openly say that Islam is evil.

For events like this, we should make sure members of our "congregation" are there with our bookmarked Qurans (preferrably with bacon a la Anne Burnhardt) and recite the passages which incite muslims to kill unblievers. Just to make sure they don't cherry-pick the peaceful verses from a sanitized version of the Quran.

We can not win the hearts of islamists because their belief does not allow them to have one. Let's stop trying!!

A recent article about banning dog ownership in Iran cements those views.

People without hearts cannot comprehend the faithfulness, love and companionship of a good dog, one of life’s true gifts.

Tell you what islam - send us all of your dogs and we will gladly send all islamists back – you think dogs are worthless, we feel the same about you – I call that a fair trade

Mindless idiots and I am not talking about the dogs.

ps.... I REFUSE to capitalize the words islam, koran or muslim. if they have no respect for our western secular society I WILL NOT grant them this concession -

Over 50 U.S. churches to hold Qur'an readings

“We want to send a message to the world,” said Tad Stahnke, director of policy and programs for Human Rights First...
..........................

Unfortunately, he is "sending a message to the world"—but the message is that he is a dhimmi tool...

More than 50 churches in 26 states already have committed to the initiative, including the Washington National Cathedral.

Reading from the Devil's own work. 'Hatred' is contagious when it comes to Islam, it is free flowing for all to drink. Reading the Koran will reap the benefits of the great Deceiver gathering all his innocent lambs... to slaughter. Not to 'demonize' Islam, it does that itself, but to tell the truth. Please read it.

So, let's see. In the Qur'an, for a Christian believer:

1) Jesus is rejected as a 'Messiah'

And better yet,

2) Christians are cursed for believing such a thing (and this is not just a curse from Allah, but Allah's messenger, the moral paradigm for every Muslim invokes a curse)

3)The crucifixion is denied.

And then there is radical appropriation of Christian doctrine: Jesus is said to be a prophet, a miracle worker, product of a miraculous virgin birth who will return one day to defeat false faith, which includes, of course, Christianity. Jesus was a Muslim prophet, not a Messiah for humanity.

And so these Christians, in their houses of worship, read from a book that endorses the view that in the end days their false Messiah will return to send them to hell if they persist in that heresy.

Read on good pastors!

And it just gets better. Then entire Christian ethic, articulated in stories, parables, events, like the crucifixion itself (something the Qur'an said never happened) is turned on its head.

Jesus said 'turn the other cheek'---Mohammad said 'heaven is shaded by swords' (Sunnah).

Jesus said 'love those who hate you'--Mohammad said 'slay them wherever you find them' (Sura 9).

Jesus said 'blessed are the meek'--Mohammad said the best kind of life is that of the mujahid--the one who dies in battle for Allah (Sunnah).

Jesus was a teacher, a healer, who, it is said, sacrificed himself for all mankind--who taught his followers to love and do good to those who persecuted them.

Mohammad was an issuer of commands, laws, the mouthpiece of Allah on earth, who organized a community into effective, brutal military units, that killed, raped, conquered for the ultimate goal of bring obedience to Allah, as known through the Messenger--Mohammad himself.

'Forgive them, for they know not what they do'--another saying attributed to Jesus, and quite apropos. Don't you think?

Thoughts...

http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2009/11/3539-to-exercise-the-mind-observe-to-comprehend-heed--consider-perceive-think-understand--4306-to-consider-in-advanc.html

"We want to send a message to the world, (the Christian minister) said, "that Americans do respect religious differences and reject religious bigotry and the demonization of Islam or any other religion."

"We want to send a message to the world," (the Moslem imam) said, "that Moslems do respect religious differences and reject Ko-Ranic bigotry and the demonization of Infidel religions. In other words, it is our sworn duty as Moslems in America to apostatize from the Ko-Ran, Hah-Deaths and Sear-Rahs in the name of the U.S. Constitution. We may suffer decapitation or some other horrible murdering for doing this, but this is our duty as loyal Americans."

*** 33:21 ***

Anybody got a list of the chapters and verses the Christian ministers have selected to read in their 50 churches?

If your church is going to do this, leave that church and find another!!!

Such churches deserve to lose their tax exempt status!

"Pulpit pals: Christians, Jews, Muslims plan shared worship"

Where is the "sharing", are 50 mosques inviting Christian clergy to present the Gospel of Christ to their congregations?

More thoughts...

http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2009/11/heres-a-videotelling-us-how-the-new-rules-of-engagement-notice-how-at-the-end-the-news-reader-counsels-us-thatits-best-th.html

This is total abdication of Christian duty, as I understand it.

No money-lenders, no Islam in Christian churches!

And, of course, it will be instructive to know how many mosques will reciprocate by having sympathetic readings from the Bible at Friday prayers tomorrow. (Only kidding.)

"Pulpit pals: Christians, Jews, Muslims plan shared worship"

Where is the "sharing", are 50 mosques inviting Christian clergy to present the Gospel of Christ to their congregations?

But it's not a question of being "nice" or "accepting" or "respectful" of other religions. It's simply a matter of intellectual honesty. Either Jesus was the son of God or he was not. If you're a Christian, you affirm that he was, and you believe that that affirmation is the most important truth of all. If you believe in the concept of objective truth, you can't then turn around and say "I respect and honor a worldview that denies the central truth of my faith." A Christian can certainly love Muslims, and can respect a secular government that allows them to practice their faith. But to celebrate their beliefs--which according to the vast bulk of Christian theology will make it very difficult, if not impossible, for Muslims to avoid eternal damnation---I just don't see how a Christian can partake in that. It's just a further example of how cultural relativism has permeated EVERY facet of the West. Christians no longer believe in the central tenets of Christianity, liberals and leftists no longer believe in the core tenets they embraced 50 years ago, etc. Someone else said this, but it's so true: "In the conflict between Islam and the West, the Muslims have a great advantage. The Muslim is sure that he is right, and the modern Western multiculturalist is not sure that the Muslim is wrong."

And more thoughts...

http://freemendo.typepad.com/undaunted/2007/12/churches.html

It will be instructive to see how many mosques reciprocate by having sympathetic readings from the Bible at this Friday's prayers.

(Only kidding.)

Even better ... show the film "Fitna" which shows Muslims quoting from the Qur'an...

What would Jesus do? If Jesus had lived during the time of Hitler, Jesus would not have joined the US military to kill Germans, but he would not have remained silent during the holocaust. Jesus taught non-violence, but he spoke out harshly against what he saw as evil. Jesus would have denounced Hitler to his face even if it meant death.

There is no way that Jesus would deny and try to cover up the slaughter of Christians, and Buddhists and other non-muslims in the muslim world.

If they want to reach out to muslims fine, but the muslims must be confronted with the brutality of islam since we must as Christians...since we must as human beings...do what we can to stop the slaughter.

Within the posts I linked to above, you can find a few other posts on the subject of church security.

Inviting these people into your church is not only stupid, it's deadly. NOTHING about Islam is compatible with true Christianity.

You want to preach the gospel to every creature? Do it in a big open field where no one will be killed but you and your new prospect.

Why not a video about "Islamic Gay Pride" in action?
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2011/05/fly-over-talibans-nest.html

Only a messenger boy, Ehh. W'll see now, wont we. Yes, we will see!!

Notice its the director of policy and programs for Human Rights First who wants Christian churches to be involved in this. Why not require all Muslims to reaffirm Human Rights first before embarking on this fool's journey into dhimmitude?

I don't suppose there will be any readings from Sura 9 then.

Religious Kumbaya.

one more thing, I will respect Islam when and only when it respects me and forever renounces violence and deception against unbelievers

These 50 churches are among the false teachers/prophets the Bible warned about ...

2 Peter 2:1 (New King James Version)

"But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction."

1 Timothy 4:1 (New King James Version)

"Now the Spirit expressly says that in latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to deceiving spirits and doctrines of demons."

And ...

Ephesians 5:11 (New King James Version)

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them."

Isaiah 5:20 (New King James Version)

"Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!"

2 Corinthians 6:14 (New King James Version)

"Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?"

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

islam & allah are definitey a doctrine of demons, so this evil ideology has NO PLACE in the church of Jesus Christ!

This is a shameful practice - so thank you, Robert, for exposing their evil deeds here.

Also, here is a commentary written by Bill Muehlenberg that some of you may find interesting, entitled ...

"Chrislam and Religious Syncretism"

Excerpt:

"I have written before about the new development known as Chrislam in which some misguided Christians believe they can somehow combine the two religions (Christianity and Islam) and still have something recognisable as the Christian faith. Sorry, but it can’t happen.

As I have demonstrated, such attempts are all one-way traffic. Muslims are happy to use such versions of religious syncretism to gain entry into Christian circles, but it just results in the creation of more dhimmitude – Christians becoming second-class citizens.

Islam always wins in such attempts, while Christianity always loses. The truth is, the two religions are fully incompatible. They may seem to be similar (both are world religions, both have Abrahamic origins, both are monotheistic, etc) but the differences are far greater."

Read more here:
http://www.billmuehlenberg.com/2011/03/01/chrislam-and-religious-syncretism/

At what point are Americans, in this case Mr. Tad Stahnke, director of policy and programs for Human Rights First, going to finally understand that Islam is a comprehensive totalitarian ideology and complete civilizational lifestyle that is only about 20% religious? The 20% religious component is made up of the "peaceful" Five Pillars of Islam dating to the period before Muhammad was thrown out of Mecca. Relatively speaking this "Meccan Period" of the Koran was "peaceful" as compared to what was to come in Medina. However, once Muhammad "immigrated" to Medina this "peaceful" Islamic Koran abrogated itself into a dangerous and violent non-religious totalitarian ideology that makes up the other 80% of Islam - Political Islam. After "immigrating" to Medina, Muhammad changed from being a mean-spirited failed religious preacher to a violent and unforgiving warlord, slaver, murderer, rapist, terrorist, and worse, especially to the the three Jewish tribes in Medina...all because of his invention of "Jihad," the Sixth Pillar of Islam. For over 1400 years, according to Islamic core doctrine (based upon the Koran and the Sunna of Muhammad) it has been incumbent for ALL Muslims (including the so-called "moderate Muslims) to wage jihad against all Kafirs wherever they may find them.

What most Americans, and in this case Mr. Stahnke, do not comprehend is that because of their ignorance of the ideology of Islam they have been unable to separate and differentiate the 20% "religious" component from the 80% "political" component of Islam. They incorrectly believe that Islam is just a "religion," but nothing could be further from the truth! The 20% "religious" component is not necessarily a danger to Kafirs;however, the 80% "political" component is an existential threat to ALL Kafirs and DEMANDS that jihad be waged against them. It is this exact inability to separate these two vastly different components of Islam that has Mr. Stahnke ranting that, “Americans do respect religious differences and reject religious bigotry and the demonization of Islam or any other religion.” While I do not believe that the 20% "religious" component of Islam is a legitimate religion, I agree that it should be afforded protection under our First Amendment. However, the dangerous 80% "political" components of Islam which are intended to control, dominate, subdue, and murder the Kafir by way of Jihad should NOT be protected under our First Amendment.

In the final analysis, the 80% "political" component of Islam is nothing more than a homophobic and intolerant supremicist totalitarian ideology (worse than Nazism and Communism combined) of hatred, bigotry, racism, misogyny, pedophilia, anti-semitism, rape, slavery, terrorism, murder, control, domination, and subjugation of the Kafir. Political Islam has been scourge on our planet since the 7th Century, and it is this "political" component that should be universally and categorically "rejected," "demonized," and once and for all destroyed.

I hope they also read this page: In the Name of Allah

"We are doing this in order to gain the pleasure of our Lord and Allah loves us to die and kill in his path.  Anyone who tries to deny this, then read the Koran and you will not be able to deny this because this is the words in the Koran and the words of our the messenger of Allah, prayers and peace upon him." "We love to die in the path of Allah... On top of this is to punish and to humiliate the Kuffar [non-believer]" "Thank God Allah accepted my duas [prayers] yeah, and provided me a means to do this."

From the farewell videos of those convicted in the plot to kill thousands of airline passengers over the Atlantic in 2006.

Read it all. I also would like to see mosques sponsor reading of Christian and Hebrew text... but not hopeful, as this will never happen.

I think the organizers of the event have a fundamental misunderstanding of US freedom of religion.

Freedom of religion specifically does not mean you have to respect the religion. It means you cannot abridge the rights of the practitioners of a religion, regardless of how much you dislike it.

If you paper over the real differences between Islam and other religion, you sidestep the real question. They are pretending Islam is a benign variant of Methodism or Hinduism. It is not. Will the organizers defend the rights of a religion, even if they disagree violently with the religion's philosophy?

A parallel question is, will they defend the rights of Islam's critics, like, say, Geert Wilders? Otherwise, these people are simply lying, in my opinion.

Salvation is the Answer, Jesus is the Way.

http://schnellmann.org/Denial_of_the_Crucifixion_of_Jesus_Christ.html
(video) Q. 4:157 Denial of the Crucifixion of Jesus Christ

"...reject religious bigotry and the demonization of Islam"

The Quran itself demonize Islam!!!

9:5 "Kill the mushrikung (all non-Muslims, the disbelievers in the oneness of Allah) wherever ye find them"

I would suggest that Christian churches take the bold step of reading some of the most brilliant Christian minds of the 20th Century, particularly as they wrote about Islam. For example:

"We thought of its (Islam’s) religion as a sort of fossilised thing about which we need not trouble. That was almost certainly a mistake. We shall almost certainly have to reckon with Islam in the near future. Perhaps if we lose our Faith it will arise. For after this subjugation of the Islamic culture by nominally Christian nations had already been achieved, the political consequences of that culture began to notice two disquieting features about it. The first was that its spiritual foundation proved immovable; the second that its area of occupation did not recede, but on the contrary slowly expanded."

Hilaire Belloc, "Survivals and New Arrivals," 1929

AND

"It has always seemed to me possible, and even probable that there would be a resurrection of Islam and that our sons or our grandsons would see the renewal of that tremendous struggle between the Christian culture and what has been for more than a thousand years its greatest opponent.... The future always comes as a surprise but political wisdom consists in attempting at least some partial judgment of what that surprise may be. And for my part I cannot but believe that a main unexpected thing of the future is the return of Islam. Since religion is at the root of all political movements and changes and since we have here a very great religion physically paralysed but morally intensely alive, we are in the presence of an unstable equilibrium which cannot remain permanently unstable."

Hilaire Belloc, "The Great Heresies," 1938

Interesting that nowadays, under the guise of "not promoting hatred," Christians are participating in their own subjugation!

(sorry for the bad link above)

9:1 "Freedom from (all) obligations (is declared) from Allah and His Messenger (SAW) to those of the Mushrikun (polytheists, pagans, idolaters, disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah), with whom you made a treaty."

9:5 "Then when the Sacred Months (the Ist, 7th, 11th, and 12th months of the Islamic calendar) have passed, then kill the Mushrikun (see V.2:105) wherever you find them, and capture them and besiege them, and prepare for them each and every ambush. But if they repent and perform As-Salat (Iqamat-as-Salat), and give Zakat, then leave their way free. Verily, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."

When you people do your Quran reading. Are you also going to read the part where Muhammed curses the Christians and Jews before he died?
UNBELIEVABLE ..

John 14:6: "I am the way the truth and the light and know one can come to the Father except through come to the Father except through me."

That says it all, folks, you simply cannot be a Christian and deny either Christ's devinity or his resurrection.

If you read sura 2 (The Cow - al baqarah) and 5 (The Table - al-maida) in total, you basically know all you have to know about the islamic view towards Jews and Christians; why Islam despises them and must per doctrine destroy and dominate them.

"The Cow" was an Allah-wonder to convince the stupid Jews of Allah and the Koran; the Table was an Allah-Wonder to convince the stupid Christians.

Whenever some smartass Multiculti ("all religions are just equal") tells me: "But the Bible says vile things too" I counter: "But only the Koran explicitly, verbally, extensivly directs its bile against Jews and Christians. The Bible doesn't once refer to Muslims. This is the ongoing problem with Islam."

Try it. It works.

Let's see how many mosques reciprocate and agree to read the New Testament to their members, and do so open-mindedly without immediately interposing the usual Islamic explanations that the Bible is corrupted and Jesus is not God and was never in fact crucified or resurrected, whereas the Qur'an is a perfect replica of God's words.

More to the point, let's see how many mosques band together to stop the Islamic holocaust against Christians and other non-Muslims around the world. Let's see how many mosques denounce the totalitarian ambitions of traditional Islam and the religious apartheid encoded by Islamic law.

There is compassion. And there is idiot compassion. "Compassion" without intelligence and knowledge tends to be really just self-centered moral-preening camouflaged as something noble. And yet the people involved often mean well.

This church initiative is self-centered moral preening masquerading as open-minded compassion and is part of the very shortcomings in American education that the initiative organizers no doubt consider themselves to have risen above with this initiative. They are part of the very provincialism they believe themselves to have transcended. In the very moment when they think themselves open to the Other, they are in fact projecting their admirable pluralistic values onto a totalitarian Other, and refusing to see this particular Other as he really is. Thus the organizers of this church initiative still retain a subtle, rarified vestige of the "backwoods" mindset, though they no doubt live in cities. And it's worse, because in their openness -- or rather pseudo-openness -- they think themselves superior and enlightened. But they do often mean well.

Jesus didn't say just be as harmless as lambs. He said to also be as clever as serpents. This church initiative is ignorant in granting to Islam the same status we grant to non-totalitarian religions. Somewhat similar to granting to Communism or Nazism the same status we grant to multi-party political systems. But perhaps in reading the Qur'an, if they develop at the same time an unbowdlerized, un-pollyanish (not likely) knowledge of the Sunna (the earliest biographies and the canonical hadiths), they will eventually wise up.

It should read "if He wants--YOU--to pack".

I'll never understand why Christians will argue vehemently with atheists (or anyone else for that matter) that believing Jesus is the messiah is the only way into heaven and then lay down like cowards when confronted by islam.

That should say SOME Christians.

I see that poster "Damian" is pushing his moral equivalency/moral relativism hobby-horseshit here again.

Last week I suggested that Damian read one of Robert Spencer's books, entitled ...

"Religion of Peace? Why Christianity Is And Islam Isn't" ...

and this was his reply on May 9th - along with my response, here:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/obl-with-the-will-of-allah-our-attacks-will-continue-against-you-as-long-as-your-support-for-israel.html

Damian wrote ...

"Yes, I've recently read some of one of Spencer's "crash-course comparisons" between Islam and Christianity. His ingenious method seems to be this: cherry-pick nice, peaceful-sounding verses from the Bible while ignoring all the vile and nasty ones, then juxtapose to these verses all the most vile and nasty ones from the Qur'an, and repeat ad nauseum. (He uses the same transparently biased, intellectually dishonest and flagrantly hypocritical cherry-picking method when, for example, discussing the Crusades.) The fact that for every one of the sick and twisted verse in the Qur'an one can find an even more sick and twisted one in the Bible, well, this is of course something Spencer never lets on.

As it happens I read both the Bible and the Qur'an more than twenty years ago, as a teenager, so I don't need to read a biased, polemical "idiot's guide" written by a self-confessed Catholic crusader in order to find out what's in them. Evidently you do need such a guide, and have swallowed every word of it as if it were the infallible Truth. I have little doubt that if you had read some equally skewed polemic by an Islamic apologist you would have swallowed that too, as "Saleem" here apparently did. People who are willing to believe that there is a Creator of the Universe, and that this Creator of the Universe is above all else concerned about whether or not human beings believe in Him or not, are, I should think, quite capable of believing absolutely anything at all. And people who are capable of believing absolutely anything at all, and who are willing to place their undying faith and unquestioning trust in a completely irrational, evidentially unsupported belief system, whether that belief system be Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hinduism, Communism, Nazism, or whatever else, are all, it seems to me, potentially extremely dangerous people indeed."

....

Your above comment, Damian, along with your inane moral equivalency/moral relativism garbage, only reveals that you do not possess the basic knowledge and understanding between good and evil, which in fact makes YOU the danger.

Thank God that Robert Spencer has a good head on his shoulders and that he knows and understands the distinct difference between good and evil, and that he's leading this particular counter-jihad movement in truth and wisdom.

I find it hilarious that a pipsqueak like you would attempt to go toe-to-toe with someone as intelligent and formidable as Robert Spencer. Hey clowns like you are a dime a dozen.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Damian's lame hobby-horse will never convince any Christian who's wholly grounded in their faith in Jesus Christ that Damian has a point - but instead that he's nothing more that a two-bit liar. Yeah it's almost painful to watch Damian make a fool of himself every time he posts this nonsense.

Also, it's abundantly clear what Damian really thinks of Robert Spencer & Jihad Watch, and WHY Damian is here.

Hey be gone, troll ...

Of course, my all time favorite in the Koran is Sura - 2 The Heifer:

[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

However, what most who quote this fail to mention the next Caveat verse:

[2:257] GOD is Lord of those who believe; He leads them out of darkness into the light. As for those who disbelieve, their lords are their idols; they lead them out of the light into darkness - these will be the dwellers of Hell; they abide in it forever.

There is no compulsion... but, you'll rot in Hell if you don't believe! So says the Most Gracious, Most Merciful, Omniscient Allah. Funny how that follow up verse is never mentioned with the prior at 'interfaith' (cherry picked) readings of the Koran. Can't make a silk purse from a cow's ear...

This whole thing smells a Tad Stahnke-y.

Either people like this Stahnke character are just incredible imbeciles (like the Episcople minister who wants to be both Christian and Muslim simultaneously, since she "feels" a connection with both), or this Tad Stahnke is on the take for some serious stealth jihad Saudi Islamization money.

The sign of Jesus' kingdom coming in power and glory meant the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Eusebius himself writes that the Jewish Christians of Jerusalem moved over to Pella and the Decapolis as they saw the Roman armies coming because they recalled Jesus' prophecies.

The end of that age came with a new dispensation of grace in which the Temple and its sacrifices were no longer needed.

This Christian is not participating in any such use of the Qur'an as part of our lectionary. I am in full accord with those posting here who say that doing so is incompatible with the Christian faith. I'm with Boston Tea Party on the matter of intellectual honesty. I believe that Jesus is God Incarnate, that he actually died on the cross for our sins, and rose from the dead three days later. I believe that the Old Testament, like the New, was preserved by the singular care and providence of Almighty God, and have both Testaments bound together in one Bible--as Christians have always known them. These are things which the Qur'an denies. As for Jesus being a prophet, I also believe that he is a priest and king, too.

And, how can Muslims call Jesus "al-Masih", a derivation of "M'shiach", when they deny that Jesus brought the final word from God, and call the Old Testament context from which this title comes "corrupt"?

For Undaunted: Sharing the Gospel with Muslim is not fruitless. There are a number of churches in the West which have had to make room for people who have exited Islam. While the numbers aren't exceptionally great, they are large enough to cause the missiologists to take notice, and realize that while we have reason to be thankful, the Holy Spirit has caught us by surprise. Further, it is backwash from faithful Western and other Christians who witnessed to Muslims that brought about some ex-guestworkers from Turkey and the Maghreb to start small, but growing, Evangelical ministries in Turkey, Morocco, and Algeria. Yes, it's hard. Yes, martyrs are made. But, Christ is still with us down to the end of the age as He promised, and can make hard ground yield a harvest.

As for these foolish people who would put the Qur'an on a par with the Old and New Testaments, their religion is not Christianity, but a thinly whitewashed Cultural relativism.
Chances are these same people spit on the Old Testament and disparage the Apostle Paul (while being woefully ignorant about both) simply because the MSM tells them to.

Damien, I am also an Atheist and will disagree with the Bible and any other religious book out there, but there is only one religion based on pure malevolance which is the one we discuss here at Jihadwatch. Atheists, Christians, Jews, and every other non-islamic religions are allies against this uniquely repugnant ideology, so we should save the discussion on our differences of opinions until the mutual enemy is removed. I can guarantee that the discussions then will be of a far more civil nature than the discussions you get with a muslim

If you really have a drum to bang and want to debunk christianity, go to some other site where christianity is the topic. Save your comments on here for Islam.

All religions eventually die of the same disease...That of being 'found out'...Islam has been 'found out'...Christianity remains intact...
Champ is not a he, nor a him, nor is she intellectually challenged...

I would like to send a copy of Robert Spencer's book, The Truth About Muhammad, to all 50 of these churches ...

and once they discover what an evil man muhammad was - especially in light of Jesus' sinless life, then perhaps they'll do the right thing and not read verses from the qur'an in church.

These churches are appeasers who feed the wolves hoping the wolves will eat them last !

Muslims are pathologically supremacist. That is why they claim sovereignty over Judeo-Christian lands in the Levant, and exclude J-Cs from al-haramain (mecca/medina). It is this simple: to a quranimal, only the arab deity entity is sovereign, and only the muslim may govern earth as "allah's" co-sovereign. Western Civilization has been the salient for muslims aggression, ever since they seized Spain and made a move against Poitiers. A carpet humper is prohibited from respecting a "disbeliever," and that hate is prescribed by the unholy quran.

There are 2 types of muslims: potential and actual terrorists (jihadis). Islam is terror; muslims are terrorists.

Forgive them, for they know not what they do.

Something else, but could anyone debate against these claims?
http://youtu.be/0S_A9ERJWN0

:3 The video's claim and the Show More links.
This can't be entering into the churches and throwing out their faith, bad.

Is Damian's case that Islam and other religious doctrines are all equally hostile and dangerous to freedom and the separation of religion and state?

Or perhaps he acknowledges that religious doctrines are to varying degrees hostile or friendly to freedom, and argues that the story and teachings of JC are actually more hostile to freedom than are the story and teachings of Muhammad?

Or perhaps he would agree that the story and teachings of JC are less hostile to freedom than the story/teachings of Muhammad, but would say that the difference is too slight to matter?

Has Damian anywhere in his thinking sketched out a spectrum (with one extreme totally friendly to freedom, and the opposite extreme totally hostile to freedom) and tried to position the various religions' core texts at various points along that spectrum?

Would he acknowledge that any belief system, whether religious or not, can be gauged as to whether the preponderance of its elements inclines toward an open society or toward a closed society? Would be acknowledge that various belief systems would have varying percentages of elements inclined toward open, evolving societies? That all religions are thus not the same in that respect?

Surely he would rather live in a majority-Christian society than in a majority-Muslim society today? Does he think that is unrelated to the different teachings of the two founders, and is just an historical accident of the moment, and that the current state of things in the two different worlds does not reflect the differing long-term tendencies of the two belief systems?

-------------------------------

Reading one of his comments on another thread, it looks like Damian is convinced that the teachings of JC are every bit as totalitarian as the teachings of Muhammad. Or perhaps Damian sees the huge difference between the two teachings, but doesn't think the difference is of primary importance in the overall doctrines, which he thinks are similarly totalitarian.

To my mind, the central fact is that JC's teachings -- true or not -- are compatible with open societies -- whereas Muhammad's teachings are not compatible with open societies. That seems to me the central fact, and it seems confirmed by the differing long-term historical trajectories of majority-Christian vs. majority-Muslim societies. Majority-Muslim societies are far more closed and static, and have almost always been far more closed and static, than majority-Christian societies.

Here, Here!! They may have stumbled across something that will bring us together. Next thing you know, the Democrats will start spouting, judgment free, Republican Party talking points at their next convention.

Well, it all depends on what verses are read, no? I doubt they will but if they read the koran like Reverend Wright then maybe people would wake up. I'm starting to doubt that the wool can be pulled over the majority and maybe this will prompt people to do their own investigation...and we all should know what happens when people learn the truth about islam. Maybe this will be a blessing in disguise and totally backfire on the muslims. To think otherwise would be too depressing for those church-goers would be no better than the zombies that listen to imams blindly.

Well, it all depends on what verses are read, no? I doubt they will but if they read the koran like Reverend Wright then maybe people would wake up. I'm starting to doubt that the wool can be pulled over the majority and maybe this will prompt people to do their own investigation...and we all should know what happens when people learn the truth about islam. Maybe this will be a blessing in disguise and totally backfire on the muslims. To think otherwise would be too depressing for those church-goers would be no better than the zombies that listen to imams blindly.

Well, it all depends on what verses are read, no? I doubt they will but if they read the koran like Reverend Wright then maybe people would wake up. I'm starting to doubt that the wool can be pulled over the majority and maybe this will prompt people to do their own investigation...and we all should know what happens when people learn the truth about islam. Maybe this will be a blessing in disguise and totally backfire on the muslims. To think otherwise would be too depressing for those church-goers would be no better than the zombies that listen to imams blindly.

How many Mosques are having Christian pastors reading the New Testament during Friday services?

I have to laugh....almost every time I read "Muslim bigotry" instead of "anti Muslim bigotry".

It is the bigotry of Muslims that perpetuate the Jihad on unbelievers.

It is time the Muslims get rid of their own bigotry. Muslims and Islam itself are by far the most bigoted intolerant people and belief system I have ever been unfortunate enough to learn about.

I am all for Churches reading the Quran, just like having a Bible study. It is a great idea to have Christians learn exactly what is in the Quran and how it endangers all free people.

How many Mosques are having Christian pastors reading the New Testament during Friday services?

I have to laugh....almost every time I read "Muslim bigotry" instead of "anti Muslim bigotry".

It is the bigotry of Muslims that perpetuate the Jihad on unbelievers.

It is time the Muslims get rid of their own bigotry. Muslims and Islam itself are by far the most bigoted intolerant people and belief system I have ever been unfortunate enough to learn about.

I am all for Churches reading the Quran, just like having a Bible study. It is a great idea to have Christians learn exactly what is in the Quran and how it endangers all free people.

More of your horseshit can be found here, Damnliar ...

You wanted proof of your lies - well here you go, read it and weep:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/palestinian-jihadist-protesters-confront-israeli-troops-at-four-borders.html#comments

You LIE by twisting what people have written and you also obfuscate the issue, and then you create drama by attacking other posters - several posters, in fact - which can all be read on the above thread I've provided. Just one of many threads that you've dragged down with your hobby-horseshit, btw.

I vote that your sorry ass be banned and STAT, "dave742" ...

Tick, tock!

Good call, DDA!

Robert and Marisol ...

Please note a comment by "Damian", he writes:

"To follow Robert Spencer in attempting to galvanize the world’s 2 billion Christians into launching a 'crusade' against the world’s 1.5 billion Muslims and their 'jihad'?"

Here @ 4:58AM, May 17, 2011, 12th paragraph down:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/palestinian-jihadist-protesters-confront-israeli-troops-at-four-borders.html#comments

Please ban "Damian", his lies need to stop. Thank you.

I hope this event will really take place, and those reading the Quranic verses won't be careful enough.

If these 50 US churches are not careful in reading the Qur’an, they, too, will be guilty of being party to demonizing Islam. That’s because THE QUR'AN ITSELF IS PRIMARILY RESPONSIBLE FOR DEMONIZING ISLAM with it’s intolerant, hateful, evil, deceitful verses, which have twisted the minds of Muslims and inspired suicide bombers.

How I wish we could parade placards highlighting the evil verses of the Qur’an as the reading is carried on.

I **love** google ads (which seem to go by keywords). They're hilarious.

In my case, as I sit and read this article tonight, at the top of the comments thread an ad pops up for 'Live Psychic Readings'.

I kid you not. I assume the keyword was 'readings'...

Dear Damian: many of the verses you mentioned in referring to the day of the Lord use the word you. It means the church not necessarily those particular people who were standind next to Him when He spoke. However specically Matt. 16;28 AND Mark 9;1 and similar verse Luke 9;27 where Jesus talks about seeing Him coming in His glory was fulfilled a few verses later on the mount of transfiguration where He shown with the radiance of heaven!

They is know way a bible would be read inside a mosque. Islam is a bastardization of God's word and anyone following the teachings in the Qur'an is a lost soul.

We must begin to hit these morons (churches) where it hurts - the pocket book. That seems to be the only language to which they listen. If/when they begin to shovel this crap it certainly won't me with me sitting in the pews. And, they won;t be getting of my hard earned money to do it. I'll donate the money that was intended to the local food kitchen - Homeless shelter. It's the same deal with the Catholic church & pedofile priests. They won't be using any more of my money to pay victims & shelter pedofile priests. They won;t be seeing any more of it until they clean up their act. Look, there are a million ways we can honor the Lord w/o contributing our hard earned $$$$ to churches that misbehave. We can send those $$$$ dollars directly to people whoi desperately need it & bypass the corruption where 50% - 75% of it never arrives at the intended destination. And, this reading of the Quran thing is just one more example of that insanity.

First, a disclaimer about my comments below: Please don't misinterpret my comments below as anti-Semitic. I am a Roman Catholic and my first love is a Jew --Jesus the Christ..and my second love is a Jewish woman..the Blessed Virgin Mary..the Mother of Jesus. I only make the references to point out that there is a group of very powerful and influential atheists, who happen to be Jewish, who work in the world and often Christianity's most implacable foes. I continue to pray for their conversion to the fullness of the truth found in Him Crucified.

Ted Stahnke of Human Rights First, is nothing but a liberal atheist, coming from that bastion of liberalism in NYC. The fact that many of lawyers of Human Rights First are atheistic Jews (vs practicing Jews)is dismaying to say the least. They should use their training and education to fight Islamic jihadists, who would gladly behead them for being Jews. But as Michael Savage is so fond of saying "liberalism is a mental disorder and will get us all killed" is so appropriate.

A review of who funds Human Rights First is surprise, surprise, the the Open Society Institute..hmmm..George Soros..another atheistic Jew..Why does our government not declare him public enemy no 1 and apprehend him and seize his assets is beyond me. He is a clear and present danger to the vital interests of the United States..but I digress..this thread is about Jihadist Islam and their enablers in the atheistic community.

The supposedly 50 Christian churches who are being duped by Human Rights First by allowing a false religion to be preached to their followers are what the Apostle Paul warned about the latter days in which we now live " I charge thee, before God and Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead, by his coming, and his kingdom: Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine. For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears: And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables. But be thou vigilant, labour in all things, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill thy ministry. Be sober." [2 Tim 4:3] Note: the word evangelist is used as diligent preacher of the gospel

May Our Lady of Fatima, by the will of God, convert the Moslems as she has converted millions and others throughout the age.

If the objective is to stop bigotry, and islamic hate ect.. how does reading the quran in a Church stoping that??
As a former muslim, I cannot believe and am always amazed at the gullibility of Christians or so called Christians allowing muslims to change/dictate the policies in a Church. Does anyone here really think that muslims or an imam would allow the reading of Biblical passages in a mosque? This is why muslims see us as soft and will continue to push to make demand after demand upon us until they have their way, don't you see that? It is frustrating!!!!!!!!!

50 "churches".... there are over 300,000 Protestant churches alone in the USA**. So that's just slightly more than 0.016% of churches. We aren't even talking catholic churches yet. No one be discouraged. We were told there would be wolves among us. They call it hateful to speak the truth about Mohammed and the Quran, when infact we are the ones who love our Muslim fellow humans enough to risk the scorn and violence involved in shining a spotlight on the darkness of the oppression that is Islam

Well, they could read the Koran and then... burn it. Of course, that won't happen, except echoes of Pastor Jones. /sarc off

**Hartford Institute for Religion Research

This is very upsetting.
Churches should be on the frontlines in fighting islam which has opressed Christians over the centuries. Instead of which, they are inviting muslim clerics to read out koran. And i have no doubts at all that they will read out the peaceful meccan passages and the gullible church-going christians will go home shaking their heads that islam is such a misunderstood and reviled religion.

One suggestion for whoever is living in the US.
Get a list of these 50 churches; visit the ones you can reach; meet the chief cleric and explain to him the stupidity of what he is about to do; read out some of the medina verses from the koran; ask him to cancel his church's participation in the event; meet the parishioners; explain the same thing to them and detail the sad life Christians are living as minorities in muslim countries.

Even if a few churches withdraw, it would still be worth the effort.
Thanks.

Parodies do not plagiarize their source, Damian.
_________
You wrote:

"...reading as it does like a parody of the Bible,..."
_________

Think, before you post, "Damian"...

After reading and then posting for about 6 years now, I am still amazed at the scholarship exhibited every day on these threads. Obviously some of the highest educated, well read, wise, witty, and experienced posters are on JW every day. In general; each post is well thought out, provacative, stimulating and yes, sometimes very entertaining. Trolls and trools (drooling trolls) are regularly banned. It has been a great joy to learn so much about the worlds common enemy as I was sadly lacking in knowledge about Islam. You can study Comparative Religion in a classroom setting, but it really comes alive when you see it happening every day. The posts are magnificent streams of enlightening education for which I and many others are truly grateful. THANK YOU ROBERT for starting this site! Your increasing appearances on nation TV and all other media is, in my mind, sterling proof of Gods hand on you and your "Ministry"! I say ministry because it has ministered to me so many times and only the Lord knows the millions you have "enlightened" to the truth about this, this---darkness that needs the Blazing Light from above. The inclusiveness is so "American" befitting of a true republic. Mr. Sanitys post at 5:03 P.M. May 18th on this thread was very good as were his later ones. He speaks about the common enemy. Any post that,on purpose, tries to deflect the attention away from the purpose of the site, I happen to regard as a subtle device of the evil genius that is VERY upset that his lease on this earth is running out like foul bathwater that a very unclean thing has sat in.

When I read the headline, I was glad that people are paying attention to the real messages in the Qu'ran, including Islamic supremacism, ideologies contradicting some of the basic tenets of Christian teachings, antisemitism, and subjugation or elimination of non-believers by violent means. If the Christians do not see Islam as existential threat to their faith, then they do deserve to die off.

If one crazy mad man like Tad Stahnke 'orders' the Koran reading in churches,what made these 50 church preists and pastors to dance to his crazy idea? Do all the memebrs of these 50 churches too agree for these satanic reading of the Koran too?Not even one member in those churches had a courage to question his Paster why he has succumed to this mad man's idea? I shudder to think of the Amercian Christian mentality. Outside Amercia,Christians will give their lives for thier god and priciples.Even if Chrsitanity dies in Amercia,we who are outside will uphold our Jesus,and we will give our lives for Jesus. Hope the members of these churches rise up and see to that no desecration of the holy place of worship is done by reading the Koran in the pulpits.

damian says:

"I don't suppose you could tell us what you believe is going to happen when Jesus arrives, could you "champ"?"

RonaldB says:

Damian. You obviously don't know when to quit when you're ahead. Do you want people to focus on the fact that you were called names, or that you have issued another rather tedious challenge to champ?

There is a common denominator of people on this website. They believe that bringing Islam and Islamic law into societies where it is not now, will fundamentally change those societies for the worse. Of course that premise can also be disputed, but it would be rather rough going.

We have a lot of different people with different base reasoning. Some people believe that Islam is fundamentally flawed by the fact that its founder was a sociopathic bandit. Others say that Muhammad never existed at all, and was created out of whole cloth to rationalize the empire created by Bedouin war lords. Yet others don't care about the origins of the religion, but see the intolerance and backwardness of Muslim countries, and also see the upheavals in those countries with large, recently-arrived Muslim immigrants.

I have a friend and coworker who's not a mathematical genius, but he comes close. He's also a devout Christian. Trust me, I can't catch him in a logical contradiction. He believes the bible to be divinely inspired and I don't, so there is no ground for logical disagreement.

So, where's the profit in arguing over religion? Some Christians and Jews believe that all of Palestine is promised to the Jews. But, most people in the US (and Israel) either don't believe it or don't take it seriously. We can, however, see the danger to which Israelis are subjected when they don't have strong borders protecting them.

President Obama just urged the Israelis to go back to the 1967 boundaries, saying the conflicts have destabilized the entire region. Of course, he didn't explain the guerrilla attacks on Israel, the military buildups, the blockades and threats that were perpetrated against Israel BEFORE the 1967 war. Answer the question of why those offenses took place, and we can discuss a logical reason for pressuring the Israelis back to barely-defendable borders.

There is a distinction between someone being disruptive to the topic at hand and one who is attacking one who is being disruptive. If you notice, I was defending your right to post here on the basis of free speech based on your sticking to the topic, not spamming unneccessarily and not personally attacking posters who are on topic which is what you were doing. Champ was entitled to defend herself, and did so.

As I said in my post far above, this is not a site for debating christianities flaws, many as some of us believe they are, this is a site dedicated to discussing Islam. If you feel the need to attack Christianity, please go to a site dedicated to that.

Personal attacks disrupt the community here and lead to a huge amount of excess typing drowning out the real issue... unless it is your intent to disrupt the site, in which case it will be noted and appropriate measures will eventually be taken.

You wrote ...

"I don't suppose you could tell us what you believe is going to happen when Jesus arrives, could you "champ"?"

If I thought for one second that you genuinely wanted to know about Christ's return, then of course I would share that with you - but you aren't genuinely interested. You're only interested in mocking me. Hey if you really want to know about Jesus' second coming, then read the Bible and find out for yourself ...

Also, for the record, I have engaged in exactly ONE debate with you. ONE. And yet you were the one that produced the irrational response! ...a response that I lost interest in taking to task. You twisted my comment about Moses, the one about him being a sinner, and then you attached a single verse from the Bible, and made the "debate" into something that I wasn't even talking about, which I explained to RonaldB. So as far as debating you is concerned, you make it sound like I regularly don't debate with you in any rational fashion, which again, is a complete lie! We debated once, if you want to call THAT a debate. I chose not to. It was a one-way conversation where you didn't make any sense to ME. Guess I should have told you so on the spot. Instead you were acting all cocky like you had won some fight. OK, you won. Feel better? Yeah, you win at twisting what other people write. How great for you.

And calling you a liar is the truth, btw, which you asked me to prove - so that's exactly what I did. If you didn't want me to prove that you lie, then why did you ask me to prove it in the first place? Next time, don't ask.

Yes, I have called you all of those other names, so I apologize for hurting your feelings. But I never called you an "anti-semetic", so you must be thinking of someone else. Guess it must be hard to keep track of all the other people withwhom you've gotten into arguments with. OK, so I did not call you "anti-semetic". Again, I am sorry for calling you those other names, but a liar. You are a liar, and so I make no apologies for that particular name. Everything else wasn't very nice of me, so I am truly sorry.

So, if you don't want to be called a liar, then stop lying. It's that simple. Make sense?

Damian, for what it's worth (not much, just wait to see what Champ posts as a response to my post), I'm on your side.

I fail to see why Champ can't just ignore those views she so vehemently disagrees with. In the same way you're entitled to your opinion, she is entitled to challenge them. Politely and with good humor.

As for Champ's self-appointed 'Arbiter of Postworthiness' status, it's become almost comical how easily riled she is and how quick to declare a fellow JW poster persona-non-grata once they are obviously at odds with her viewpoint.

Worst of all, from my POV, is the nauseating cliquishness of certain 'god-botherers' who, when faced with the challenge of proving their position, close ranks and bay like cackle of hyenas. As Carl Sagan stated "Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". You say there is a god, let's see some proof. It's not our job to prove you wrong.

On the topic of churches showing they 'respect religious differences and reject religious bigotry'...WTF more does the U.S. have to do to show our collective 'respect'??????

We allow a religion with stated goals of world domination to spread their vile message. We gave a filthy terrorist leader a decent burial. We treat the adherents of said death-cult with kid gloves because they act out like belligerent teenagers when treated like everyone else instead of their perceived superior position.

It's absurd and no self-respecting government would allow it to happen.

Finally, we're generally all here for the same reason: Fight against the infection of islam. Let's keep that in mind, please.

"But I am certainly interested in what "champ" believes is going to happen "soon", when Jesus comes. I am not trying to score points here: I am genuinely interested in what she, and people like her, believe."

Hahaha! ...you have got to be kidding. You only want to know so that you can mock me some more, Damian, by poking fun at what the Bible says. You are "genuinely interested", eh? Sure you are! Tell me another one ...

Like I just stated, read the Bible for youself if you're "genuinely interested", since I am genuinely disinterested in sharing it with you.

"close ranks and bay like cackle of hyenas."

...wow, I didn't know that anyone could be so rude.

So I was right about that PC leftist comment, wasn't I? Attacking Muslims and Islam? Why, you can't do that! They are minorities, and therefore, they have the golden umbrella of liberal protection over their heads. They are above criticism because any bad thing they do is just payback for the evil white Christians.

That sound about right, Damian? I mean, it's obvious that Islam is the most destructive and poisonous ideology in the world today, but you would rather go after a de-fanged religion because all your morally superior leftist cohorts are doing it.

Above I posted a longish comment asking some questions about Damian's views. I posted the same comment on another thread some days ago, and there Damian replied that my questions seemed reasonable and that he would try to get around to answering them. I hope he will.

You wrote ...

"If someone addresses you in a manner you dislike why do you feel forced to reply?"

I don't feel forced, I choose to reply.

"Why dignify a post with a response you clearly don't feel justifies your attention?"

If someone addresses me with a question, then I will reply with an answer, which in none of your damn business.

"Do you get all excited that you have a potential victim to bully? That's how it comes across to me."

Projection and double standard alert. You have been bullying me with your insults, so you are not one to talk, righ?

"If you're one of those sad, desperate people who have no other outlet than an anonymous forum then I apologize for highlighting your social awkwardness."

More insults? And again, why are YOU here? Kinda funny that you're posting a comment like that to me, when you're on Jihad Watch, too. I love defending my faith in Jesus Christ, and I make no apologies for that.

A better question for you to ask, why did you chime in on this conversation? There was no need for you to get involved. Do you think that your participation is helping? Are you feeling starved for attention? Well, you certainly got it, now didn't you?

Dear Champ, You are a Champion. You have the King of the Universe living on the inside of you in your spirit. A wise man once said that the person with a true experience, I.E what happens at the point of inviting Him in, is never at the mercy of someone with a theory. Great as Damien's intelligence is, he still lacks that experience that the Bible describes as the Peace that passes all understanding. He was a Catholic and then a Muslim and now an Atheist. How confusing this all must be to him. If he's left with his human education and intelligence, his spirit is spiritually lacking and some would say spiritually dead. He believed both "faiths" and now faith in nothingness. Well,he says he believed. I believe he believed in the religions and their systems but without the true indwelling he didnt have the inner strength to stand against the wiles of the Devil. He posts with the intent to jerk Christian's chains with a perverse agenda that he gets his jollys from. The other Atheists post with the common desire to see this totally evil destructive force that tries to eat the known world like a wild Metastasizing cancer stopped by an awakening populace. My best advice; ignore him! Let him go back to other sites where perverse profanity and name calling really gets him his entertainment for the evening. This apparently is somewhat the sum of his life. Not doing what this site was designed to do fulfills his goal. I pray for him even recognizing that his choice of a posting name was possibly picked because of the movie name of the anti-christ.

I respect your view, Damian, but I have to say, it never ceases to amaze how many atheists proseletyze for atheism so vigorously.

Human Rights First's 990 from last year has the names of its largest donors removed from the form. It's posted on their website.

This organization is Michael Posner's group, which he left to work for Obama. He thinks America is the great oppressor, of course.

http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=1744

""It is my belief that arguments relating to god cannot be disproven any more than they can be proven."

Well, you caught me saying something I didn't mean to say, Damian. Fortunately, you went on to address the point I really meant to make, so I'll clarify, and then answer.

I meant to say that the existence of god cannot be proven and cannot be disproven. However, arguments in favor of the existence of god certainly can be disproven, and all of them have been disproven. But, as you know, "absence of evidence does not constitute evidence of absence."

You have stated that the evidence for believing in as inclusive an entity as god should be very strong, and does not meet your standard. Fine and good. Someone who believes in god is manifesting faith, which by definition is belief without evidence. That person is not being more illogical than you are.

Where the problem comes in, of course, is where believers try to deduce scientific principles from their view of religious scriptures. For example, here in Texas we have a problem with the school board constantly softening the curriculum on evolution. It is inappropriate to apply matters of faith to scientific fields.

Another example is the claim that Israel has the right to Judea and Samaria because god gave it to the Jews. That's a very bad argument to make. It cannot be proven, and since it is an attempt to apply a matter of faith to a matter of policy, without application of logical reasoning, it can just as easily turn and bite you in the butt. It's much better to make the argument that Israel is a democratic state that enhances the lives of its citizens and gives equal rights to all: Jews, Christians, Muslims, and even B'ahai. You can argue logically, though perhaps not correctly, that Israel cannot survive without most of these lands, and you then have a rational argument that can be discussed by all sides.

Incidentally, I have read the arguments of Bertrand Russel deconstructing many of the then-popular notions of religion. If the authors of your website know as much about logic, philosophy, or religion as Bertrand Russel, I'll be happy to read them. Russel was the first to admit he couldn't disprove the existence of a god, but he could certainly demolish arguments which claimed to prove logically and solidly that god existed.

I can prove the existence of God, but perhaps only to myself, which is all the proof I need. This is a conceivable reality to millions, I suppose, who can say they have had the same proof by experience.

I can prove the existence of God, but perhaps only to myself, which is all the proof I need. This is a conceivable reality to millions, I suppose, who can say they have had the same proof by experience.

One thing I do remember from the past is that Abu-Lahab writes a lot like a former poster named Question-Everything and that Moharebeh publicly stated that he changed his nickname from Allahsnackbar into Moharebeh.

Both Question-Everything and Moharebeh, in tandem, in the past had a really vehement argument with Champ and the poster Kim (and is that not now Courreges w?), in tandem, and it certainly was a very vehement debate among Atheists and Christians.

And the interesting part of it is that now Abu Lahab says he sides with Damian against Champ. Though still posting good lines about being primarily against Islam which is the case in most of his posts.

And that Moharebeh posts excellent lines in the same vein as traeh, mr Sanity, RonaldB and also agreeing about the common biggest enemy being Islam. And I as also an atheist, admired and learned a lot from the responses to Damian by all these posters and Champ too.

Perhaps it goes to show that posters like Damian are really inspiring many of us to a high performance reaction, not so easy to be had when all of us here only toe the party line and dissenting voices are banned too soon. Though excellent reasons to ban and NOT to ban have been giving, especially by RonaldB en Mr. Sanity for which I am very grateful. the whole thread was great, I enjoyed it and learned so much.

By the way; how can Damian be Danios, when Damian clearly scorns ALL religions, concerning their believability, though not concerning their detrimental political influence, while Danios logically cannot be writing so proliferately for Loonwatch AND at the same time be considered as anything but a Moslim, can he?

Correction:

To be precise, in the past it were Question-Everything and

Allahsnackbar

who engaged in this awesome fierce debate, deplored by many who want to see Christians and Atheists make common cause against Islam, like me, with Champ and Kim.

..."and to the best of my recollection have never indulged in perverse profanity or name calling on this site."

That statement is false, Damian ...

You stated that I was "intellectually challenged", which can be found on this same thread @ 4:36PM, May 18.

Isn't that "name calling"? Hey don't be so quick to pat yourself on the back ...