Turkey: Violence against women reaches level of “gendercide,” Islamic supremacist government resists reform efforts

Why is Turkey’s AKP ruling party opposing efforts to protect women? Because the Qur’an directs men to beat disobedient women (4:34); how, then, is all this domestic violence any concern of a good, pious Muslim? “Domestic violence rings alarm bells in Turkey,” by Åžafak Tımur for Agence France-Presse, April 28 (thanks to all who sent this in):

She is neither a celebrity nor a prominent politician, but a bodyguard escorts Nahide Opuz at every step, even at the supermarket, to fend off a menace that has proved lethal: her ex-husband.

The 39-year-old mother of two is the first Turkish woman to have a government-funded bodyguard after the European Court of Human Rights condemned Turkey in 2009 for failing to protect her and her slain mother.

Before the landmark case reached the judges in Strasbourg, Opuz was repeatedly beaten and survived both a stabbing and an attempt to run her over with a car.

After Turkish authorities repeatedly failed to act on her complaints, her ex-husband killed her mother.

Opuz, from the mainly Kurdish southeast, now lives a secluded life.

“For her, it is impossible to talk about and have a normal life. She has been haunted by violence and death threats all throughout her marriage and afterward,” lawyer Meral Danış BeÅŸtaÅŸ told AFP.

Activists say violence against women in the EU-candidate country has reached an alarming level and point the finger at the judicial authorities and the ruling Islamist-rooted Justice and Development Party, or AKP.

In February and March, 52 women were killed by men, according to a tally by BIAnet, a news site focusing on human rights abuses.

The figure was at least 217 for last year, and 27 percent of them were killed after asking for a divorce.

From 2002 to 2009, the number of women killed in pre-meditated murders rose 14-fold, according to Justice Ministry statistics that do not provide details on the perpetrators and circumstances.

“The problem in Turkey has reached the level of “˜gendercide,– said Hülya Gülbahar, a leading women’s rights activist.

Women have long been victims of violence, including honor killings, in a country where patriarchal traditions persist.

But critics argue the problem has been compounded in recent years by the AKP’s advocacy of conservative values.

Memo to AFP: “conservatives” do not generally commit honor killings or murder women who are seeking divorce.

“The AKP’s conservatism and Islam target the woman’s body and sexuality,” said Pınar Ä°lkkaracan, a rights campaigner.

“What is lacking is the will to eliminate violence against women on the part of the government. They have shown serious resistance” against solving the issue,” she said.

Gülbahar also blamed mounting violence on “an intense propaganda that women and men are not equal by creation, and women are therefore responsible for housework and motherhood.”

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip ErdoÄŸan — who once called women activists “marginals” — came under fire last year when he said, “men and women cannot be equal” but only “complementary to each other.”…

"In every case involving a believer of Islam are we going to ignore state law?"
Pennsylvania court gives twice as much to sons as to daughters in inheritance case after will calls for distribution "according to Islamic Laws and Sharia"
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Comments

  1. says

    Hello Robert, you said:
    “Because the Qur’an directs men to beat disobedient women (4:34); how, then, is all this domestic violence any concern of a good, pious Muslim?”

    If a muslim is good pious, he might also be described as a “devout” muslim. I assume that this means he follows all the commands in the texts. Ergo, a devout muslim is an extremist muslim and means that an infidel should run like Hell.

    If I am told that someone is a devout Christian, I would take it to mean that he is Christ-like.

    Likewise, if I am told that someone is a devout Muslim, I would take it to mean that he is Mohammad-like.

    Muslims and muslim societies are becoming more “extreme” becausing they are becoming more “devout”.

  2. says

    Ooops a daisy. Some corrections on my comment are required and here it is.

    If a muslim is good and pious, he might also be described as a “devout” muslim. I assume that this means he follows all the commands in the texts. Ergo, a devout muslim is an extremist muslim and means that an infidel should run like Hell.

    If I am told that someone is a devout Christian, I would take it to mean that he is Christ-like.

    Likewise, if I am told that someone is a devout Muslim, I would take it to mean that he is Mohammad-like.

    Muslims and muslim societies are becoming more “extreme” because they are becoming more “devout”.

  3. says

    Some years ago the quantity of young women killed – particularly in the eastern and Kurdish areas of Turkey – reached alarming levels. Or put differently: notice was taken of them because they prevented Turkey from being considered a European country, and they made Turkey look bad.

    Those are areas where even a hint of the beginning of a rumour gets a female killed to “preserve the family honour”.

    But notice had been taken by the responsible authorities, and the sentences of their brothers/fathers/uncles et al were toughened a little. Accordingly fewer young women were killed in what were obvious honour killings. Instead more of them committed suicide.

  4. says

    Activists say violence against women in the EU-candidate country …

    Errata sheet: Activists say violence against women in the ARAB-LEAGUE-candidate country…

  5. says

    ….and of course, by “beat” the koran is interpreted by these base non-human devils to mean rape, rape, rape, sodomize, sodomize, torture, torture, and then, when all their sex lust is satisfied, it’s time for the “beheading”.

    Hey, allah demands it. Allah REWARDS this. They’re just doing what they’re told, in other words, “Allah made me DO IT………..”

    When will the world realize that islam IS THE DEVIL’S DOING?.

  6. says

    Meaningless Knee-Jerk Equalizing by the Press :

    “But critics argue the problem has been compounded in recent years by the AKP’s advocacy of conservative values.”

    “Critics”? – that’s like filing in police report that a “gentleman” mugged you…

    “argue”? – wouldn’t u just love to observe this “intellectual” food-fight?

    “problem compounded” – so conservatives fighting for human respect & equality are
    responsible for creating this problem?

    Doesn’t anyone read these reports before they go into print?

  7. says

    ….and of course, by “beat” the koran is interpreted by these base non-human devils to mean rape, rape, rape, sodomize, sodomize, torture, torture, and then, when all their sex lust is satisfied, it’s time for the “beheading”.

    Hey, allah demands it. Allah REWARDS this. They’re just doing what they’re told, in other words, “Allah made me DO IT………..”

    When will the world realize that islam IS THE DEVIL’S DOING?.

  8. says

    “What is lacking is the will to eliminate violence against women on the part of the government. They have shown serious resistance” against solving the issue,” she said

    They are not lacking, they have the Quran and the examples of Mahound…If it appears that you are going against those, they will resist, sometimes a lot, sometimes too much…But there really is no ‘too much’ when it comes to Allah…

  9. says

    ===” To those who claim islam has nothing to do with this: Qur’an (4:34) “Qur’an (4:34) – “Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.” Source: http://quran.com/4/34 Pretty straightforward: she obeys or you can beat her! Yip, really high and great… Treating a 7th century tract as though it is good advice for all times is a serious problem. Liars and appeasers: stop denying that islam desperately needs to reform. “===

    Read the other comments by clicking on the GRAPH here :- http://goo.gl/nRklG

  10. says

    “What is lacking is the will to eliminate violence against women on the part of the government. They have shown serious resistance” against solving the issue,” she said

    They are not lacking, they have the Quran and the examples of Mahound…If it appears that you are going against those, they will resist, sometimes a lot, sometimes too much…But there really is no ‘too much’ when it comes to Allah…

  11. says

    Free trade in North Africa will create a new world order. Flashing butts and busts will replace the Burka as porno pics become more interesting than the Koran. Some call it decadence but most call it party time.

  12. says

    When we argue that Islam is incompatible with Democracy, almost always we get the response; Look at Turkey! As proof that Democracy and Islam CAN be combined.

    But Turkey is 138th in the listings for freedom of press. And now we get these statistics about honour killings in Turkey. Obviously the situation for real autonomy and equal treatment for women is bad, much lower than in real democratic countries.

    And perhaps the victims are reluctant to involve the police and the police are reluctant to register and report the violence against women they encounter. Or perhaps they do not investigate “suicides” of women stringently enough.

    But at least we got reports like the one above and international organisations for human rights and especially for women’s rights should not let go, but instead delve much deeper into this, demanding independent investigation on pain of declaring the existence of criminal anti-democratic circumstances and processes in Islamic Turkey. Governed by a party that stresses Islamic values. It should be an important target to monitor by real feminists and pro-real-deep-democracy parties.

    Turkey’s big flaws like this still show the incompatibility of real deep Democracy and real practiced Islam.

  13. says

    I have just returned from a long Easter weekend in Constantinopolis and was very shocked at how Turkish men treat their women. I saw a few husbands hitting and shouting at their wives in the street. Poor women, this sort of behaviour is not acceptable in the west and I found the Turks to not be european either.
    dr andrew michael

  14. says

    I have just returned from a long Easter weekend in Constantinopolis and was very shocked at how Turkish men treat their women. I saw a few husbands hitting and shouting at their wives in the street. Poor women, this sort of behaviour is not acceptable in the west and I found the Turks to not be european either.
    dr andrew michael

  15. says

    You guys keep harping about Genocide muslims do, but when Indians do it, somehow everyone stays silent-

    “Rapes of Women Show Clash of Old and New India”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/world/asia/27india.html

    “No place for girls in ‘shining India'”

    http://news.asiaone.com/News/Latest%2BNews/Asia/Story/A1Story20110413-273361.html

    “The decline of India’s girls”

    “Economic growth hasn’t brought gender justice, as sex-selective abortion means more boys than girls are born every year”

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/apr/10/missing-girls-dark-side-india-abortion

    “India’s gender imbalance “worst in recorded history'”

    http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/indias-gender-imbalance-worst-in-recorded-history/

    “An urgent need to preserve and value baby girls in India”

    http://www.thenational.ae/thenationalconversation/industry-insights/economics/an-urgent-need-to-preserve-and-value-baby-girls-in-india

    “India Gendercide: A Great Threat To Security – Analysis”

    “THE result of 2011 census of India is almost all heartening. Literacy is up; life expectancy is up; family size is stabilizing. But there is one grim exception- India’s already skewed infant sex ratio is getting worse. India counted only 914 girls aged six and under for every 1,000 boys or 75.8m girls and 82.9m boys. This sex ratio is the worst in the recorded history of the modern Indian.”

    http://www.eurasiareview.com/india-gendercide-a-great-threat-to-security-analysis-14042011/

    “The Devastating Impact of Sex-Selection Abortion in India”

    http://www.nationalrighttolifenews.org/news/2011/04/the-devastating-impact-of-sex-selection-abortion-in-india/

    “War Against Women Starts With Killing Baby Girls in China, India, and”

    http://unaskedadvice.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/war-against-women-starts-with-killing-baby-girls-in-china-india-and/
    ______________________________________________________________

    So now everyone, where is the fake outrage over India’s massive gendercide and sexist campaign against women? Why is no one speaking out?

  16. says

    @ Horse

    There are, of course, incidences of maltreatment of women in every society. However, only a numb-skull like you would deliberately avoid admitting that such abusive treatment is sanctioned by Islam.
    Read the Qur’an, you klutz!

    That’s the reason why JW points this out and highlights violence against women in Islamic societies. It’s an integral part of Islam. And that makes Islam a problem for every society where violence against women is curable, but not in Islamic societies where it is considered acceptable because Islam says it is.

    anta moharej
    أنت مهرج

    You’re a clown!

  17. says

    How can Islamist leaning ruling parties allow the West’s concept of women’s rights when per Islam women are explicitly denied such rights? Besides, having absolute control of one’s women is possibly Islam’s biggest selling point for men in a man’s world. Furthermore, if women in Islam could be as free as Western women Muslim population growth would inevitable suffer. The death spiral of European Caucasians due to their low birthrate is no doubt viewed as just punishment for these infidels while Islam is due to demographically conquer the West. Islamic oppression of women equals high birth rate and ultimate victory over the foolish infidel who always elect sell-out politicians soft on immigration.

  18. says

    From 2002 to 2009, the number of women killed in pre-meditated murders rose 14-fold, according to Justice Ministry statistics that do not provide details on the perpetrators and circumstances.
    …………………………….

    *Fourteen fold*

    *My God*. And why is 2002 a significant date? This is the year Erdogan and the “conservative” (read “Islamist”) AK party came to power.

    The oppression and murder of women goes hand in hand with Shari’ah. Let all those who scoff at the malevolence of Shari’ah”especially women like Judge Vicki Miles-LaGrange, who shot down the first law in Oklahoma banning Shari’ah”look at Turkey and realize what they are dealing with.

    Of course, I very much doubt she would grasp what this means…

  19. says

    Also, I am all for deporting Muslims of India back to Pakistan where they ought to be. Pakistan was founded on the notion that the converted and Arabized Hindus and Hindus proper of India could never live side by side. What the hell are Muslims doing in India when they already got their wish of a separate nation?

    The Muslim yoke has been overthrown but slavery still subtly persists in the form of the “bastard” Hindustani language that is neither purely Indo-European Sanskrit, nor the desert Arabic. Therefore, Linguistic emancipation by purging all the loaned Arab words in the Hindi language and replacing it with its original Sanskrit words will lead to freedom from the slavery of thought. Indian thought (that is determined by language) in too Arabized right now.

    And also the separation of Muslims from the Hindus will be the key to India’s progress and finding its lost identity.

  20. says

    Nobody has voiced the ultimate purpose for funding the North African protests. Most think it is being done to spread freedom, other say it is being done to open up free trade markets. But the ultimate purpose must be left unspoken; few will accept the deaths of one billion civilians that oppose the new world order.

  21. says

    Percentage of honor killings done by Muslims

    According to the article “Worldwide Trends in Honor Killings,” published in the Middle East Forum, Muslims do 91 percent of honor killings worldwide and 96 percent of honor killings in Europe. If you click on the above link, those percentages can be found five paragraphs below the heading “Methodology.”

  22. says

    In core Islamic texts, Muhammad says beat your wife, no questions asked

    In Sunan Abu Dawud, a canonical hadith collection:

    Book 11, Number 2142:<

    Narrated Umar ibn al-Khattab:

    The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.

  23. says

    Examples of Islam’s founders striking women

    From Sahih al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, the two most canonical hadith collections:

    Sahih al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 82, Number 828:

    Narrated Aisha [Muhammad’s favorite wife]:

    Abu Bakr [first caliph, father of Aisha, and companion of Muhammad] came towards me and struck me violently with his fist and said, “You have detained the people because of your necklace.” But I remained motionless as if I was dead lest I should awake Allah’s Apostle although that hit was very painful.

    Sahih Muslim, Book 009, Number 3506:

    Jabir b. ‘Abdullah (Allah be pleased with them) reported: Abu Bakr…came and sought permission to see Allah’s Messenger…He found people sitting at his door and none amongst them had been granted permission, but it was granted to Abu Bakr and he went in. Then came Umar and he sought permission and it was granted to him, and he found Allah’s Apostle…sitting sad and silent with his wives around him. He (Hadrat Umar) said: I would say something which would make the Holy Prophet…laugh, so he [Umar] said: Messenger of Allah, I wish you had seen (the treatment meted out to) the daughter of Khadija when you asked me some money, and I got up and slapped her on her neck. Allah’s Messenger [Muhammad]…laughed and said: They are around me as you see, asking for extra money. Abu Bakr [who was later to become first caliph]…then got up went to A’isha…and slapped her on the neck, and Umar [who was later to become second caliph] stood up before Hafsa and slapped her saying: You ask Allah’s Messenger…which he does not possess. They said: By Allah, we do not ask Allah’s Messenger…for anything he does not possess…

    Sahih Muslim, Book 004, Number 2127:

    …(the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O ‘A’isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He [Muhammad] struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?…

    Sahih Bukhari Volume 7, Book 72, Number 715:

    Narrated ‘Ikrima:

    Rifa’a divorced his wife whereupon ‘AbdurRahman bin Az-Zubair Al-Qurazi married her. ‘Aisha said that the lady (came), wearing a green veil (and complained to her (Aisha) of her husband and showed her a green spot on her skin caused by beating). It was the habit of ladies to support each other, so when Allah’s Apostle came, ‘Aisha said, “I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women. Look! Her skin is greener than her clothes!”…

    ——————————————————-

    Wife-beating goes on in all societies. But most societies outlaw it and punish it. Islam’s core texts and founders, with some limitations, encourage wife-beating.

  24. says

    islam vs Christianity …

    THE QUR’AN:

    Qur’an (4:34) – “Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.”

    Qur’an (38:44) – “And take in your hand a green branch and beat her with it, and do not break your oath…” Allah telling Job to beat his wife.

    FROM THE HADITH:

    Bukhari (72:715) – A woman came to Muhammad and begged her to stop her husband from beating her. Her skin was bruised so badly that she it is described as being “greener” than the green veil she was wearing. Muhammad did not admonish her husband, but instead ordered her to return to him and submit to his sexual desires.

    Bukhari (72:715) – “Aisha said, ‘I have not seen any woman suffering as much as the believing women'” This is Muhammad’s own wife complaining of the abuse that the women of her religions suffer relative to other women.

    Muslim (4:2127) – Muhammad struck his favorite wife, Aisha, in the chest one evening when she left the house without his permission. Aisha narrates, “He struck me on the chest which caused me pain.”

    Muslim (9:3506) – Muhammad’s father-in-laws (Abu Bakr and Umar) amused him by slapping his wives (Aisha and Hafsa) for annoying him. According to the Hadith, the prophet of Islam laughed upon hearing this.

    Abu Dawud (2141) – “Iyas bin “Abd Allah bin Abi Dhubab reported the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) as saying: Do not beat Allah’s handmaidens, but when “Umar came to the Apostle of Allah (may peace be upon him) and said: Women have become emboldened towards their husbands, he (the Prophet) gave permission to beat them.” At first, Muhammad forbade men from beating their wives, but he rescinded this once it was reported that women were becoming emboldened toward their husbands. Beatings are sometimes necessary to keep women in their place.

    Abu Dawud (2142) – “The Prophet (peace be upon him) said: A man will not be asked as to why he beat his wife.”

    Abu Dawud (2126) – “A man from the Ansar called Basrah said: ‘I married a virgin woman in her veil. When I entered upon her, I found her pregnant. (I mentioned this to the Prophet).’ The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: ‘She will get the dower, for you made her vagina lawful for you. The child will be your slave. When she has begotten (a child), flog her'” A Muslim man thinks his is getting a virgin, then finds out she is pregnant. Muhammad tells him to treat the woman as a sex slave and then flog her after she has delivered the child.

    Ishaq 969 – Commands that a married woman be “put in a separate room and beaten lightly” if she “act in a sexual manner toward others.” According to the Hadith, this can be for an offense as petty as merely being alone with a man to whom she is not related.

    VIDEO: HOW TO BEAT UP AN ISLAMIC WOMAN:

    http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xc9a4q_bahraini-cleric-how-to-beat-up-an-i_news

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Juxtapose the qur’an and hadith’s evil teachings to what’s written in the New Testament …that all Christian husbands love their wives:

    BIBLE – THE NEW TESTAMENT:

    Ephesians 5:25-28

    “Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. So husbands ought to love their own wives as their own bodies; he who loves his wife loves himself.”

    1 Peter 3:7

    “Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered.”

    VIDEO: HUSBANDS LOVE YOUR WIVES AS CHRIST LOVED THE CHURCH:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIpv3Ndwpq0

  25. says

    The Qur’an does not say beat your wife if she is disobedient; it says beat her if you merely “fear” or suspect disobedience

    Below are ten translations of the notorious portion of Qur’an Chapter 4, Verse 34, the beat-your-disobedient-woman verse.

    Some of the translators insert the word (lightly) after “beat.” None of the insertions in parentheses are in the original Arabic of the Qur’an.

    Six of the ten translations use the word “beat.”

    Two translations use the word “scourge,” which as a verb means to whip.

    And two of the translations use the word “chastise.” Most dictionaries give corporal punishment (beating, or “stripes”) as one of the main definitions of “chastise.”

    Pickthall: “and scourge them”
    Yusuf Ali: “(And last) beat them (lightly)”
    Al-Hilali/Khan: “(and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful)”
    Shakir: “and beat them”
    Sher Ali: “and chastise them”
    Khalifa: “then you may (as a last alternative) beat them”
    Arberry: “and beat them”
    Rodwell: “and scourge them”
    Sale: “and chastise them”
    Asad: “then beat them”
    Dawood: “and beat them.”

  26. says

    ….and of course, allah sez “beat”, which these subhuman devils interpret to mean rape, rape, rape, torture,torture, a little sodomy, then rape a few more times, and then it’s time for TA DA (drum roll please)

    THE BEHEADING…….!!!!!!!!

    But it’s OK, allah made ’em do it.

  27. says

    A person does not need to know arabic to SEE that muslim men hold the record for honor killings and for beating their wives – statistics bear out this fact; and this evil violence towards women is supported and encouraged by unholy islamic texts. No other religion on earth holds this kind of disgraceful and appalling record – only islam.

  28. says

    Well, this allah’s real lame: can’t even be bothered to have a book written that can be understood by the people speaking multiple languages he must have created in the first place ! Jee, if I was a god, I’d make sure *everyone* would be able to have access to my Word, not just a bunch of camel-riding twits. But that’s me…

    As for the inability of muslims to simultaneously marry cousins, do honor killings and kidnap women, well, I got news for you: sure they can ! They can have at least 4 wives, so everything above plus some other choices (lapidading some, repudiating others, etc) is doable.

    Now, about consanguinity, at the rate muslims practice it, it will help in solving some of our problems (but maybe not before we get bankrupt taking care of the worst case children, at least in those kuffar countries). Do I have to say what happens when cousins marry too much amongst themselves ? Handicaped children and degenerated people, that’s what !

    Lastly, the Indian problem will eventually take care of itself too (I think the Chinese are begining to find out these days), since guys, however hard they try, can’t have much children…

    Heh.

  29. says

    Well, this allah’s real lame: can’t even be bothered to have a book written that can be understood by the people speaking multiple languages he must have created in the first place ! Jee, if I was a god, I’d make sure *everyone* would be able to have access to my Word, not just a bunch of camel-riding twits. But that’s me…

    As for the inability of muslims to simultaneously marry cousins, do honor killings and kidnap women, well, I got news for you: sure they can ! They can have at least 4 wives, so everything above plus some other choices (lapidading some, repudiating others, etc) is doable.

    Now, about consanguinity, at the rate muslims practice it, it will help in solving some of our problems (but maybe not before we get bankrupt taking care of the worst case children, at least in those kuffar countries). Do I have to say what happens when cousins marry too much amongst themselves ? Handicaped children and degenerated people, that’s what !

    Lastly, the Indian problem will eventually take care of itself too (I think the Chinese are begining to find out these days), since guys, however hard they try, can’t have much children…

    Heh.

  30. says

    “Stop citing hadith that muslims don’t follow.”

    No man could POSSIBLY know what all other muslims read and subscribe to, only God Himself is privy to such knowing …

  31. says

    Progress in Muslim societies…they seem to be starting younger – not that long ago, there was news about young boys beheading people – now this…any day now, the afghans and the Pakistani youth will take to designing micro-chips for all of us….

    http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/world/south-asia/12-year-old-suicide-bomber-kills-four-in-Afghanistan/articleshow/8135986.cms

    [KABUL: A 12-year-old suicide bomber killed four people and wounded a dozen in eastern Afghanistan today, officials said.

    The boy – thought to be one of the country’s youngest-ever suicide attackers – detonated a vest packed with explosives in a marketplace in Paktika province, on the border with Pakistan, provincial spokesman Mukhlis Afghan said in a statement.

    “The head of Shkin district council, Shair Nawaz, a woman and two other men were killed and 12 others were wounded,” the statement said.]

  32. says

    Arabs can thank NY and Florida Jews for making the term genocide the ugliest word in the dictionary. Tyrants in North Africa were about to murder millions of Arab civilians, they were stopped by Jewish journalists who called it wrong because it is genocide.

  33. says

    I’m not really sure what Horse thinks he can achieve in coming on here and trying to best this fine community with taquiyyah that we are immune to, and utterly irrelevant statements to derail threads (this part actually works sometimes as the thread often devolves to nitpicking with him)
    Still I’m sure I’m not the only one who is actually entertained by his futile attempts at defending Islam.

  34. says

    For some good solid doses of reality to counter the nonsense with which’Horse’ has attempted to bamboozle us (he won’t fool the longtime regulars, but he might confuse the newbies), I recommend the following to any new readers or lurkers who may have been momentarily confused by his sand-throwing.

    Geraldine Brooks, ‘Nine Parts of Desire’ (she doesn’t fully grasp the extent to which the various abuses perpetrated against women in Muslim societies are connected to what is taught in the core texts of Islam, but she hasn’t lost her commonsense and therefore makes some very sensible observations).

    Rosemary Sookhdeo – ‘Secrets Behind the Burkha’ (on the treatment of women in Islam, and more specifically, the treatment of women within the Muslim ummah in Britain. She undertook the research on which the book is based, for an academic thesis. It involved in-depth interviews with many British Muslim women and girls).

    Ayaan Hirsi Ali, ‘Infidel’, ‘Nomad’ and ‘The Caged Virgin’.

    Wafa Sultan, ‘A God Who Hates’.

    Nonie Darwish, ‘Cruel and Usual Punishment’ (a discussion of sharia, and how the attitudes and practices prescribed and condoned by sharia saturate even those societies that do not officially follow full sharia ‘on paper’ – e.g. Islamic Egypt during the 1950s through 1980s when Darwish was growing to adulthood. Darwish describes a young maid, a teenager, who came to work for her family, and who was ‘honor murdered’ because of having been raped by her [the maid’s] previous boss.).

    Here is what Nonie says about honor murders:

    “Cases of honor killing in Egypt have always been ignored by the religious community and sharia experts…Decades ago when I lived in Egypt we were all aware of the hush-hush topic of honor killing. The religious community was silent about it, and we always presumed that it was supported by religion, since no religious leaders ever condemned it..’

    ‘They say Islam has nothing to do with honor killing, but **I have never heard a Friday sermon prohibiting it and quoting scriptures that condemn it. Men who commit that crime are rarely punished, and even then the punishment is very light. Preachers may not say in their mosques that honor killing is against Islam, but they surely tell that to the West when an embarrassing story of honor killing occurs in France, Germany or London. Muslim sensitivity to shame before the West is behind the strong denial of any link of honor killing to Islam.
    ‘Why do Muslim leaders who tell the press that honor killings are un-Islamic never cry from the pulpits of mosques saying, “No, not in the name of Islam”? Isn’t religion supposed to fix bad cultural habits? Why cannot the all-powerful authoritarian Islamic sharia end this supposedly evil cultural habit in Muslim society? Why is it that draconian Sharia which controls every aspect of a Muslim’s life and more, has failed to notice that women and girls are being killed by their own family members? Why is it that not one man has been stoned to death for killing his daughter to protect his honor, while women are stoned for having sex that was actually rape they are unable to prove?

    ‘The bottom line is that leaders of the “religion of peace” do not mind honor killing and have never harshly punished its perpetrators. Islamic Sharia becomes all the more powerful when yet another layer of fear is imposed on women, the main objects of victimization under Sharia. Relying on the justice system and the corrupt police cannot be totally effective in breaking the will of women and preventing them from rebelling. Thus, encouraging male family members to become the police, judge and jury over women becomes the solution to achieve total female submission…

    ‘If honor killing was truly a crime unacceptable to Islam, Sharia law could certainly have frightened men away from committing it. But honor killing falls into perfect harmony with the Muslim views of women and their sexual oppression. From the least to the most educated, from the least to the most religious, the reaction is the same: no-one makes a public stand, and no-one reports it, not even the religious leaders. Such murder victims are treated like a dead squirrel or a rabbit run over on the road”.

    – from Cruel and Usual Punishment, pages 70, 72-73.

  35. says

    Poor old “Horse.” He keeps trying to rescue Islam by way of tedious and off-the-mark arguments (e.g., no one can accurately comment on the Koran unless they know Arabic). I’m sure in his own mind he’s done a good job but in reality, which is a phenomenon that is quite foreign to Muslims, living as they do in a fantasy world, he has simply demonstrated that the Muslim mind (excuse the oxymoron) is capable of any nonsense.

    Hey Horse, why not regale us with that great corpus of musical tradition known as “Islamic musical theater,” since you have averred that music is alive and well in that dark area of human existence known as “the Muslim world.” And while you’re at it, enlighten us poor non-believers in all the ways that Islam has explored new avenues of freedom, not seen or understood by, say, Solon, Themistocles, Pericles, Thomas Jefferson, John Adams, the younger Pitt, William Wilberforce, Abraham Lincoln and Winston Churchill. Yeah, go ahead. Give it a shot and let all of us non-believers know just how much the Islamic world has pioneered important advances in freedom. List some of the great Muslim exponents of freedom if you will. Yeah, do so.

    Gettin’ my drift? Sure hope so, rube.

  36. says

    Libya is just the beginning. International bankers have recently been shying away from investing their dollars into indigenous populations that produce negative returns on investments. This is bad news for hundreds of millions in Africa and Asia whose people are dependent on investors willing to take a loss.

  37. says

    Say uh Horse…I’m going to ask you once again…Is my Quran in English the word of Allah, or not? I have asked you several times and you ignore the questions…I also asked you if Mahoundians were free to pick and choose Mohammads examples as expressed in hadith, and how doers that fit with Allah’s instruction to obey the messenger?…It would seem to me those are simple questions with a short straight forward answer…Are you incapable of providing any of those?

  38. says

    Sunday night 10:45 pm EST: FOX and CNN both reporting that Osama Bin Laden is dead. No details as yet.

    Oh please let there be no way that Obummah can take credit for this.

    Other than that caveat, YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

  39. says

    DING DONG BIN LADEN’S DEAD!

    And listen up you kuranimals: unlike you we WON’T drag the corpse through the streets, spitting on it and hanging it from a bridge although he so richly deserves it.

  40. says

    Congratulation …

    To every one …islam will never win ….the snack’s head is cut off …..america has the bodyyyyyy …….wowwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww ….I am on cloud 1000

    happpppppppppppppppppy

  41. says

    islamic national anthems..

    give them a break, they needed something to play when their new invited ‘citizens’ won a gold medal.

  42. says

    NO ….the moderat muslim will tell people thank Allah for his death PUBLICLY …..BUT SECRETLY …IT IS BAD DAY INDEED ….

    they were hoping for Osama to do something bigger then 9/11 …..

    they are wolves in sheeps skin …..no one should ever forget that …..

    I have heard them personally these muslim moderate , celebrate on 9/11 …..

  43. says

    Horse:

    “it would be desireble for more Arabs to move to Turkey to settle there and arabdize the place”
    “Arabic sounds better than any other language ….when was the last time I heard of turkish Literature?”
    “Now (Arabic is) spoken from the khaleej to the maghreb, and into the sudd in the sudan.”

    wow, triumphant supremacist cultural imperialism at its finest. Just keep egging him on.

  44. says

    A nice and easy way to protect women and prevent them from being raped is of course to keep them invisible by diverse means or prevent them from going outside by themselves, unaccompanied by family. That so many other individual rights go overboard in the process must obviously be accepted.

    It is common knowledge – also among tourists now – that women do NOT travel or go out alone in a Muslim country, or they risk gestures, suggestions, groping. Muslim men cannot handle it.

    Also in some Muslim countries it is not always advisable for a rape victim to accuse herself.

    I do not quite trust any numbers given out by most Muslim countries. I’m afraid I suspect them of lying in varying degrees, according to their level of Islamism or one-party rule/dictatorship.

    The Saudis sure execute a lot despite being so law-abiding.

  45. says

    THE LIGHTS ARE GOING OUT:

    Here’s a very incomplete list of organizations or people self-censoring, or hiring bodyguards, or going into hiding, or taking other precautions, and sometimes getting killed or wounded after receiving death threats and violence from Muslims following the example of Muhammad, who said there would be no punishment for murdering someone who had insulted him.

    Yale University Press (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Metropolitan Museum of Art (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    National Archives of Canada (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Director of the museum in the Hague, Wim van Krimpen (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    State Senator Greg Ball (receives suspicious package with greeting “Asa Lamu Laikum Dead Man Walking,” (the first part of which is Arabic for “peace be upon you”) ;

    2010 Tennessee candidate for Congress Lou Ann Zelenikj (death threats from Muslims);

    Barrister Tom Zreika (seeks police protection after non-stop phone threats from Muslims);

    Japanese translator of Rushdie, Hitoshi Igarashi (murdered);

    Norwiegan translator William Nygaard (shot);

    Italian translator Ettore Capriolo (knifed);

    French singer Veronique Sanson (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Artist Molly Norris (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats, changed name, went into hiding);

    The producers of South Park (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Journalist Lawrence O’Donnell (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Cartoonist Lars Vilks (house firebombed);

    Philosopher Robert Redeker (in hiding, under government protection);

    Filmmaker Theo Van Gogh (murdered);

    Author and former member of Dutch parliament Hirsi Ali (full-time bodyguards);

    Author Salman Rushdie (in hiding, under UK govt. protection);

    Danish newspaper Jyllands Posten (bodyguards hired);

    And again Jyllands Posten (five jihadists discovered planning to shoot as many people as possible);

    Atheist Sabri Husibi (death threats from Muslims);

    Lyricist Javed Akhtar (death threats from Muslims);

    Cartoonist Kurt Westergaard (almost killed by a Muslim with an axe);

    Director of the film 2012; the comedian Penn Jillette; the British potter Grayson Perry (all three self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Lawyer Majed Moughni (death threat from Muslim);

    Author Taslima Nasreen (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Disc jockey/musician Jakub Rene Kosik (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Coptic Orthodox priest Zakaria Botros (Al Qaeda bounty of $60 million on his head);

    Pop star Deeyah (hires extra bodyguards);

    Politician Shiria Khatun (forced by Muslim threats to her children to dress in a “less Western” manner);

    Christian minister Dr. Peter Hammond
    (death threat from Muslim);

    Actor Omar Sharif (Muslims call for his murder);

    Artist Sooreh Hera (self-censored by Muslim threats and forced into hiding);

    Artist Sarah Maple (gallery workers threatened, gallery window smashed, 24-hour police protection);

    Beatle Paul McCartney (death threats from Muslims);

    150 Austrian Coptic Christians (Austrian interior ministry found jihadist list targeting each of them for violent attack);

    100+ Canadian-Arab Christians (each one targeted on an Al Qaeda website);

    Volvo and Ikea (threatened by terrorist group);

    UK teacher Gary Smith
    (face slashed, skull fractured);

    UK Muslim scientist Usama Hasan (self-censored in response to Muslim death threats);

    Islam expert Robert Spencer; and again Robert Spencer; and again Robert Spencer; and again Ro…well, you get the idea.

    And countless others have been subjected to similar threats and violence.

    The lights are going out. The growth of Islam means the death of civil liberties. It’s time to resist.

  46. says

    Hello Steffen Larsen, you said:
    “But notice had been taken by the responsible authorities, and the sentences of their brothers/fathers/uncles et al were toughened a little. Accordingly, fewer young women were killed in what were obvious honour killings. Instead more of them committed suicide.”

    Great sarcasm and irony!

  47. says

    Hello Steffen:
    On your last paragraph which I said contained great sarcasm and irony. The irony: Muslims try to hammer down a nail into the coffin lid with a child’s hammer (fewer honour killings) while at the other end, a hammered-in nail begins to rise in exact or greater proportion (suicides). Beauty man.

  48. says

    You said:
    “Errata sheet: Activists say violence against women in the ARAB-LEAGUE-candidate country…”

    Not quite Arab but OK with me.

    Turkey is a devolutionary work-in-regress toward the 7th century with Turkish accents. And that’s how muslims spell progress.

  49. says

    Off Topic Off Topic
    Hello john spielman.
    In an Off Topic post I suggested JWers who are Christians or who are fence-sitters watch the videos of the Christian astrophysicist, Dr Hugh Ross. He super-intelligently blasts naturalists, Darwinists, etc. and combines science and faith in a truly masterful fashion. Here is what I wrote:

    A Christian astrophysicist, Hugh Ross, speaks on the universe and God and the bible in five parts.
    http://www.newday.org/guests/?date=2011-04-17
    Click “Watch Online” on the left for the videos. Absolutely fascinating, rallying, and stiffening stuff.

  50. says

    “Treating a 7th century tract as though it is good advice for all times is a serious problem. Liars and appeasers: stop denying that islam desperately needs to reform. “===”

    Alexander, the liars and appeasers of Islam do not only deny that. Most often they say that Muslims will “reform” Islam automatically, that they are just a little bit behind us.

    They trivialize demographic growth of Muslims, they deny that they constitute some kind of worldwide unity and cooperation. They assure us that Muslims also want all those things that we want and therefore will automatically reform Islam.

    But we think that it strong opposition-protest, exposure and pressure are the only real reasons for Muslims to apostasize, or reform, or adapt.

    Therefore it is of crucial importance that Democratic Watchdogs monitor worldwide as much behavior of Muslims as possible. And protest and expose as much as possible Islamic texts and attitude and behavior of Muslims and the connection between them. So as to put Muslims under pressure.

    And now, we suspect Muslims still think en masse that they can still win and consolidate on much of the planet in the 21st century, that time is on their side, due to their demographic growth in relation to other human groups in many nations.

    But with mounting Islam-awareness and “Islamophobia-pressure”, combined with exponential technology-development, growing even faster than their numbers, perhaps many of them soon will despair of conquest for or even consolidation of Islam. And will realize that they are really running out of time. And will finally somehow really adapt to real Democratic conditions.

  51. says

    The Muslim apologist “Morris Wise” wrote:

    Free trade in North Africa will create a new world order. Flashing butts and busts will replace the Burka as porno pics become more interesting than the Koran. Some call it decadence but most call it party time.
    ………………………….

    “Morris Wise” posted similar comments yesterday, implying that Muslim societies would turn to free elections in the Levant and the Mahgreb, and sneeringly suggesting that such ‘democracy’ would mean nothing but license”fast food and pornography. “Morris Wise” has made it clear he understands nothing about real freedom.

    And of course, it is far more likely that such elections in the Muslim world would mean increasing Islamization and Shari’ah law.

    In any case, it is evident that “Morris Wise” prefers the savagery of “honor killings” to the existence of Playboy Magazine and Victoria’s Secret ads.

    I know that I consider lingerie ads far less obscene than Muslim orgies of murdered women.

  52. says

    Thanks for the entree Canto28 and I fully agree with you.

    A cartoon idea for “Islam For Dhimmis”:
    Top left corner: on Demographic Jihad and Polygamy
    Title of cartoon: How the West was Done!
    A Western couple with a baby carriage in the right background looking at a “passing to the left’ procession of a devout muslim at the head followed by three burqua-ites each pushing a triple-type baby carriage (nine babies) trailed by a boy with a whip in hand. The Western woman’s dialogue balloon, “What do you make of that?”. Western man’s dialogue balloon, “…it looks like a wagon train heading West.”

    Below is a stat on alarming birth rates for muslims
    Below that a quote from some prominent muslim on the womb business
    Below that, Note: If you think we are overdoing it on the boy with the whip, see the award-winning film, The Stoning of Soraya M.”

  53. says

    Pointing to other wrongdoing doesn’t excuse wrongdoing and Muslim men in droves abuse women. For instance, something like 90% of honor killings throughout the world are performed by Muslim men. While we’re at it, what’s your take on 4:34 from the Koran? Personally, I find it sickening, the whole idea of striking a woman, but there it is, all stark and plain like, in that damn holy book of the Muslims. Do you think a husband who merely fears disobedience, let alone actually experiencing it, has a right to “beat” his woman? Yeah, let us all know where you stand on this. Go ahead, give it a shot. And be advised that many, many regular commenters here at JW are well aware of the many tricks Muslims use to mislead the kuffaar.

  54. says

    Hmmmmm,

    Could this be because female foeticide in India finds no sanction in religious texts of Indian hindus, while Islam routinely condones, no, ENCOURAGES the “disciplining” of women and talks of women as being half the worth of man and asks for four male witnesses in case of rape of women?

    Horse, could this be because Muslims by the names of Mahound of Ghazni, Mahound of Ghori, Timur the lame, Nadir Shah, Babur, Mahound Bin Tughlaq and others (son, do your research son before you strut here expounding your equal-equal propaganda) REPEATEDLY decimated, raped and plundered India for 1000 years, and carried off their women to sexual slavery, and that it was no longer safe for women of the formerly extremely liberal Hindu India to even venture out on their own alone and unaccompanied lest they be captured by marauding Moslimes? And thus practices of child marriage, dowry, purdah (the saree edge that hindus used as head covering) came into being because of the tendency of the Muzzlime to target the Kaffir Hindu women as fair game?

    Son, do you know that women of medieval and ancient India before the advent of Moslimes used to be priests, buddhist monks, and were worshiped (even now) as the giver of life and even the female forms were gloried in nude temple carvings? Son do you know half of Hindu Goddesses are women? Contrast this with the scripturally sanctioned degradation and dehumanizing of women in your SUPPOSEDLY HOLY scriptures. Your ISLAME sanctions the stoning of women for God’s sake!!! There can be no equal between the Dharmic religions (Hinduism, Buddhism, Sikkhism, Jainism) and the misogynistic cult called Islam.

    Could this be because in India and China, due to poverty families (wrongly) prefer boy child over girl? Could it be a recent phenomenon, unlike in Mahoundinian societies where it has been a practice ever since that despicable cult called Pi$$lam came into being? Hindus and India (I don’t make distinction between the two) are gradually coming out of their shell and their trench mentality. 50 more years, 50 more years… and when the Hindus come out of the 1000 years of the sad Mahoundinians slavery and regain their collective consciousness, their penchant for sciences, mathematics, philosophy and their collective lost soul, this Mahoundian induced practice will soon die out.

    GOD, I HATE ISLAM FOR WHAT IT DID TO INDIA!… and how the collective knowledge of humanity as a whole is poorer because of that.

    Lastly, can you please crawl back to the hole you came from?

  55. says

    Dear Horse,
    Hinduism, like Islam, Judaism, Christianity, etc does not treat women as equals. That is a fact. However, Hinduism is not a world-wide terroristic threat like Islam is. India in its 5000 year old history has not invaded countries and forced hinduism on people. Islam came from Arabia and moved east to India. After 14 centuries, 70-80 million hindus slaughtered by muslims, and thousands of temples destroyed, islam is not a panacea for hindu women’s plight. Also there is no official ‘prophet’ of hinduism who was a rapist, pedophile, assassin, murderer and thief. Muhammed was a barbarian and is a role model for muslims.

    As a female and born a hindu (i don’t believe in organized religion now) I am aware of and have personally experienced hinduism’s sexism. However, I can state that islam is a great threat to international stability and peace. Hinduism isn’t a proseylzing, imperialistic ideology like islam.

    Typical post from muslims who attack other religions because they cannot dissect the koran, hadith, muhammed, etc. So tell me horse, what do you think of muhammed’s assassination order of Asma bin marwin, the mother of 5, who was a jewish civilian, a poet? what do you think of how she was killed and what do you think of muhammed’s comment that 2 goats wouldn’t butt heads over her murder?? Is that any way to treat a woman? What do you think of muhammed’s rape of jewish Safiyah after muhammed organized the torture and beheading of her husband. Please, horse, what is your analysis of the above?

  56. says

    Then explain the traditional Hindu custom of Sati, burning a widow to death on her husband’s funeral pyre?

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/pimu/1442318199/

    http://www.amazon.com/Sati-Widow-Burning-Sakuntal-Narasimhan/dp/0385423179

    http://webjcli.ncl.ac.uk/2009/issue2/ahmad2.html

    “Sati (Su-thi or Suttee) is the traditional Indian (Hindu) practice of a widow immolating herself on her husband’s funeral pyre. The sati tradition was prevalent among certain sects of the society in ancient India, who either took the vow or deemed it a great honour to die on the funeral pyres of their husbands. The ritual of sati was banned by the British Government in 1829 by Lord Bentinck, the Governor-General of India (1828 to 1835) and later the Sati (Prevention) Act 1987.”

    “In the modern times, there have been a few instances of sati in Rajasthan (1987), Utter Pradesh (2006) Madhya Pradesh (2002 and 2006) and in Chattisgarh (2008). The practice of Sati mostly happens in parts of northern and central India. Isolated incidents may be more but not reported officially that caused a lot of controversy and social turmoil in the country over and over again.”

    http://www.indianchild.com/sati_in_india.htm

    “A few rulers of India like the Mughals, tried to ban this custom”

  57. says

    You need to know Arabic to know the exact wordings of verses.

    And some obnoxious people who criticize Islam like to take examples of cultural practices ie. bride kidnapping, which is practiced by chechens and central asians, but not by Arabs, who practice arranged cousin marriage, when these people like you see Chechens practice bride kidnapping you say “oh it must be because of Islam”, and at the same time you claim all muslims are inbred due to cousin marriage, yet bride kidnapping doesn’t involved cousins.

    Get consistent and tell us what exactly each practice {bride kinapping, honor killing, and cousin marriage) has to do with islam, since they can’t be practiced at the same time.

    Bride kidnapping and honor killing are not sanctioned by Islam, There is absolutely zero news reports of Muslims in Chiang mai province of North Thailand, China, Taiwan, doing honor killing.

    In China, among Salar, Dongxiang, and Hui, all muslim, no honor killing is practiced. Theres not been a single report in the Chinese media of this or in taiwan either, and I really don’t need others to confirm this since this is my culture. With regards to family Confucianism was practiced by muslim in China before not honor killing.

    Today, in Central asia, there are dungan (chinese muslim), who still use traditional chinese wedding and rituals, some
    Soviet anthropologist even said they were doing foot binding and wearing Chinese wedding dresses and practices up to 50 years ago, and they still do the wedding stuff today, they practice Chinese customs not honor killing. (contrast this with China where 50 years ago foot binding already stopped, and today traditional chinese dresses aren’t worn at weddings nor traditional rituals practiced). I never met them myself but I read Soviet, Russian, and American anthropological works on them in English, and saw photos of them.

    Some chinese are shocked they preserve Chinese customs better than people in China.

    That disproves honor killing is islamic, and disproves islam is an “arab imperialist” religion, since Dungans, living outside of China, practice Chinese customs better than both non muslims and muslims in China.

    Also, I think this article was written by a Turk juding from his name. He must be a pro Ataturk CHP propagandist attacking AKP due to rivalry.

    Both CHP (who follow ataturk-turkic nationalist), AKP(erdogan’s party- islamist), and MHP (bozkurt- both ideologies: Islamist, turkic nationalist and racist) all suck and can go to hell. Turkey needs to be arabdized to be civilized since Turks are racist against Armenians.

  58. says

    Islam is very conducive towards Arab Supremacism.

    “Turkey needs to be arabdized to be civilized since Turks are racist against Armenians.”

    Extremely laughable. There is no love lost between Arabs and Turks, the former seeing themselves as ‘the best of peoples’ and the only people good fit to rule the ummah. The current pro arab/islamist stance is due to the ruling AKP party. A Turk may show support for ‘filistin’ because its the hip and liberal thing to do, but in the end Turks never forget that the flag of Palestine is the same flag under which the arabs fought the Ottoman Empire. Arabs are not much better in the treatment of minorities. The only reason Armenians are somewhat tolerated in Arab lands is due to unfortunate dhimmitude of Armenian churches of the eastern rite.

  59. says

    The “you need to know Arabic” is the lamest of all excuses masquerading as an argument. Pathetic. As though I would need to know German to make valid comments about Mein Kampf or would need to know ancient Greek (which I somewhat do) in order to comment accurately on the New Testament. 4:34 from the Koran stands on its own, irrespective of which language is used, and you have refused to tell us what you think about it. Total dodge. I warned you about many commenters here being well aware of the tricks Muslims use and you chose to ignore this. The fact remains that about 90% of honor killings throughout the world are perpetrated by Muslim men and 4:34 from the Koran does nothing to alleviate this situation.

  60. says

    You need to know Arabic to know the exact wordings of verses.

    Does that mean that my English Quran is wrong or incomplete?
    If it is wrong or incomplete, then it cannot be the words of Allah, and is then a fraud, and since Mahoundians print them in English and give them out, it is blasphemy for them to do so…And it is blasphemy for you to suggest that any Quran, English or otherwise is not understandable to those who read and understand the language it is printed in…But don’t worry, no one on this site will tell Allah about it…

  61. says

    Nice razor logic Wellington.
    Do you think that Horse may be related to the late Mr Ed of television fame? If he is, he must have one halally huge keyboard.

  62. says

    “The ‘you need to know Arabic’ is the lamest of all excuses masquerading as an argument.”

    Very true, Wellington; yet said poster has used this excuse for months now, so he’ll never convince anyone here even remotely intelligent otherwise. Not sure what he hopes to gain by repeating himself, over and over again …unless, of course, he thinks that by repeating his lie long enough, and often enough, that people might come to think it true. Guess hearing it over the years worked on him, lol …

  63. says

    the “Mein Kampf” is not a holy text, nor does it explicitly order people to do things, so its not required to understand exact wordings hitler used when writing.

    “yang guizi” in Chinese has variously been translated as “foreign ghost” or “foreign devil”

    In english, ghosts and devils are very different, yet translators show disregard as to which one they prefer when they translated “yang guizi” into english.

    “Kont” كنت in Arabic, could mean either “I was”, or “you were”. If i was writing in Arabic “you were xxx”, and someone translated it as “I was xxx”, it makes a big difference.

    Learn Arabic before trying to lecture others on Arabic

  64. says

    And if 90% of muslims smoke does that make smoking Islamic?

    NO

    0% of muslims in China, north Thailand, taiwan, and burma practice honor killing, honor killing is a custom among people in pakistan, kurds, arabs, since they have the concept of “namus” (honor) relating to their women. They have different culture.

    Confucianism was practiced by muslim in China not “namus”, while you may criticize Confucianism for whatever reason, we certainly don’t have namus or honor killing.

    honor killing also includes a father of a girl killing her boyfriend as well, although it is sexist (since he would not do the same to his sons girlfriend), not just girls are victims.

  65. says

    your spamming of Hadith is obnoxious.

    Most Imams and muslim scholars would agree that Islam forbids music, but every single muslim country has an instrumental national anthem, and millions of muslims listen to pop music written by artists like Haifa Webhe and Nancy Ajram

    _____________________________________________________________
    Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 7, Book 69, hadith #494v

    From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks, and the use of musical instruments as lawful. And (from them), there will be some who will stay near the side of a mountain, and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, ‘Return to us tomorrow.’ Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and Allah will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection.”
    ______________________________________________________________

    Yet most muslims ignore this hadith, every muslim country has a national anthem, including Saudi Arabia, and Haifa Webhe and other singers are hits across the arab world for their music.

    This is music in Russian, sung by Dungan (chinese muslims) in kirghistan about Mansour, a Dungan who fought in the Red Army against the Nazis in World war 2

    http://www.56.com/u11/v_NDc3MjAyMTg.html

    another Dungan song with music-

    http://www.56.com/u22/v_Mzk3MDQxMTU.html
    http://www.56.com/u71/v_MzkwNDM4MTI.html

    Stop citing hadith that muslims don’t follow.

  66. says

    “”Kont” كنت in Arabic, could mean either “I was”, or “you were”. If i was writing in Arabic “you were xxx”, and someone translated it as “I was xxx”, it makes a big difference.

    Learn Arabic before trying to lecture others on Arabic”

    And your allegedly omnipotent allah, in dictating, his allegedly “clear, perfect and for all people for all time” mein kuranmpf did not have the foresight or intellect to choose words and phrases that could NOT be misunderstood or mistranslated?”

    What you’re telling us is that in all his omnipotence allah did not have the wit to NOT use conceptual metaphor like “I am blue.”

    Polish that turd all you want, it still stinks but only you can’t smell it.

  67. says

    Well, Horse, is my English Quran the word of Allah, or not?
    Several million Mahoundians who can’t read Arabic want to know…

  68. says

    Stop citing hadith that muslims don’t follow.

    One more little thing Horse…Can you cite which hadiths that Mahoundians don’t follow and which ones they do? And if they do not heed hadith, are they in violation of Allah’s law where he sat to obey the messenger?

    I guess the not faithful don’t believe in Mahound any more…He said that Allah would pour molten lead in the ear of anyone who listened to a songstress…
    Have modern Mahoundians abandoned Mahound? Why do they still get upset about insults and cartoons if they have abandoned him in favor of rock and roll and pork chops?

  69. says

    These are pictures of Dungan (chinese muslims) in Kyrghzstan.

    None of the girls are wearing hijab or veil, they are all wearing traditional Chinese clothing from the 18th century, which both muslims and non muslims in China do NOT wear today.

    http://www.dungane.kz/data/photo/rus/pic_127.jpg
    http://www.dungane.kz/data/photo/rus/pic_166.jpg
    http://www.dungane.kz/data/photo/rus/pic_80.JPG
    http://www.dungane.kz/data/photo/rus/pic_79.JPG
    http://www.dungane.kz/data/photo/rus/pic_117.jpg
    http://www.dungane.kz/data/photo/rus/pic_106.JPG
    http://www.dungane.kz/data/photo/rus/pic_232.jpg
    http://www.dungane.kz/data/photo/rus/pic_224.jpg
    http://www.dungane.kz/data/photo/rus/pic_246.jpg

    more video of them(the girls aren’t veiled and they are all dress in Chinese clothing)

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QvS5_ZauzLA
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbD8H76gumk
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxzHDYMRgpA
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUGFT2FJ6hg

    However, they have learned bride kidnapping from their Kyrghz neigbors

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7_QJc4nG_WU

    in China, muslims don’t do bride kidnapping, but when they moved from China to Kyrghzstan 120 years ago, these Dungan picked up Kyrghz culture and bride kidnapping with it.

    This is how Honor killing entered into Kurdish, pakistani, and other society, they don’t learn it from religion they learned it from their neighbors cultures.

  70. says

    Still won’t address 4:34, will ya? Dodge, dodge dodge. You shouldn’t be called “Horse.” You should be called “The Not-So-Artful Dodger.”

  71. says

    Yes, so?

    Does that justify CURRENT Mzzlime behavior against women? What are you trying to say– because Hindus burnt widows, Christians burnt witches, Jews stoned people ONCE UPON A TIME, its OK for Moslimes to do the same against their women, IN THE 21ST CENTURY?

    The way you debate is typical of the Taqqiya Moslimes use to divert the debate from WHAT ISLAME IS DOING NOW to what OTHER PEOPLE DID IN THE PAST. Sorry, but that is not going down here among informed Jihadwatchers. We are too Islamosavvy to fall for the crusades, sati, caste system, witch burning guilt trip.

    You ask what is the difference the followers of Mohound and us the “unclean’ Kaffirs? Moslimes insist on not only continuing with their backward desert practices but also dictate that we gradually do the same. And as far as we, the “Ummat-Al-Kaffirs” are concerned, we have given up these backward practices or are in the process of eliminating them after publicly recognizing that they are wrong and go against the tenets of humanity.

    The question is ARE YOU WILLING TO DENOUNCE THE SHARIA AND MOHOUND’s DESPICABLE BEHAVIOR TOWARDS: WOMEN, JEWS, PAGANS, DOGS, WAR CAPTIVES, UNDERAGE GIRLS etc etc? Are you willing to call MoHound what he is- a rapist, pedophile, bandit, psychopathic, schizophrenic little devil? Probably not right? That is the difference between you Muslims and us Kaffirs.

    As far as we are concerned, its a straightforward case of “Monkey does, monkey is,” our understaning or not understanding Arabic notwithstanding.

    Get it?

    Please stop “horsing” around in this forum if you do not have even iota of self reflection or common sense.

  72. says

    only if you guys had brains and know how popular Haife Webhe and other people’s music are in the Arab world then you would know that wouldn’t follow the hadith i just cited which says people who listen or use instrumental music will be turned into apes and pigs.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/turkey-violence-against-women-reaches-level-of-genercide-islamic-supremacist-government-resists-refo.html#comment-783672

    Every single muslim country has an instrumental national anthem

    And to Duh swami, muslims aren’t eating pork chops wth are you talking about?

  73. says

    “they are all wearing traditional Chinese clothing from the 18th century,”

    Quick, someone better tell these vagina-virgin fashionistas that it’s THE 21ST CENTURY!

  74. says

    Hores :

    Stop lying ….your nose getting so long,it going to break off….. quick …post few facts on Islam before it happens.

  75. says

    Ducking the real question huh Horse…Is my English Quran the word of Allah or not?
    And did Mohammadans abandon Mahounds examples in hadith, in favor of sin? And western corruption?

    Get back to me as soon as you figure it out…But it looks to me like you are reluctant to answer…Why is that?

  76. says

    Hores :

    Stop lying ….your nose getting so long,it going to break off….. quick …post few facts on Islam before it happens.

  77. says

    There are many points in that link that describe classic muslim traits. Further proof (as if it were needed) of the inherrant insanity that mohammadenism engenders

  78. says

    Wellington,

    Horse said:

    Most Imams and muslim scholars would agree that Islam forbids music, but every single muslim country has an instrumental national anthem, and millions of muslims listen to pop music written by artists like Haifa Webhe and Nancy Ajram.

    The zombie (Horse) keeps harping on the popularity of the Lebanese singer

    says

    Know the feeling, duh_swami, which is why Horse should not be invited to the next North Carolina pork barbecue no matter what anyone says.

  79. says

    To all JWers:
    It seems obvious that Horse does not want to sufficiently acknowledge the difference between Paper and Practice. Abrogation is not entirely appreciated by him. He does not know that “extreme” muslim behaviour is “devout” muslim behaviour.
    In “Islam For Dhimmis” one of the themes to be covered will be, “Papers, Placards, and Practices”. A sneak preview for those who are interested in Mr Sanity’s and pokermutt’s locked and loaded cover is at the link. As I said, it is only a sneak preview.
    http://img813.imageshack.us/i/islamfordhimmisfinal.jpg/

  80. says

    Saudi Arabia’s national anthem with instrumental music

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ymlmSzfHmk0

    Arab nationalist song Al Watan Al Albar (with instrumental music and singing)

    The performers, and the composer, Muhammed Abdel Wahab, are all muslims

    http://www.facebook.com/video/video.php?v=107588612105

    Haifa Wehbe

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mebNNtuF7c

    “Hayfa Wehbi Admires Sayyed Hassan Nasrullah – Mediadi.com ”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L8rWf8hEjM

    The hadith
    ______________________________________________________________
    Sahih Al-Bukhari Volume 7, Book 69, hadith #494v

    From among my followers there will be some people who will consider illegal sexual intercourse, the wearing of silk, the drinking of alcoholic drinks, and the use of musical instruments as lawful. And (from them), there will be some who will stay near the side of a mountain, and in the evening their shepherd will come to them with their sheep and ask them for something, but they will say to him, ‘Return to us tomorrow.’ Allah will destroy them during the night and will let the mountain fall on them, and Allah will transform the rest of them into monkeys and pigs and they will remain so till the Day of Resurrection.
    ______________________________________________________________

    This hadith is NOT FOLLOWED by muslims.

    Just like the many other hadith Traeh enjoys spamming…

  81. says

    if you’re still around trying to knock some sense into the horse…. i have sent you a reply on the ‘u.s. attorney says justice dep’t will challenge anti-sharia law’ thread..

    would like to hear your comment/s re last part of the post

  82. says

    Show me a single author, researcher, or anthropologist who ever heard of a single case of honor killing happening among muslims in chiang Mai in thailand, China, or burma.

    ZERO

    Tell me what Egypt exactly has to do with muslims living in east asia. Islam is not the catholic church, no one is required to listen to the “authorities” at Al-Azhar.

    We don’t give a sh** about what Egyptians do, for hundreds of years, there was no contact between the two areas. Egyptians do Female circumcision, since they are Shafi, but no muslim in China does female circumcision, there are no shafi in China.

    The Quran forbids female infanticide. Hindus in India abort female fetuses all the time

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/turkey-violence-against-women-reaches-level-of-genercide-islamic-supremacist-government-resists-refo.html#comment-783609

    And the one child policy does not apply to muslims in China if they live in rural areas, two children are allowed, and muslims don’t abort female fetuses unlike most other non muslims in china, so there isn’t a skewed sex ratio.

  83. says

    Show me a single author, researcher, or anthropologist who ever heard of a single case of honor killing happening among muslims in chiang Mai in thailand, China, or burma.

    ZERO

    Tell me what Egypt exactly has to do with muslims living in east asia. Islam is not the catholic church, no one is required to listen to the “authorities” at Al-Azhar.

    We don’t give a sh** about what Egyptians do, for hundreds of years, there was no contact between the two areas. Egyptians do Female circumcision, since they are Shafi, but no muslim in China does female circumcision, there are no shafi in China.

    The Quran forbids female infanticide. Hindus in India abort female fetuses all the time

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/05/turkey-violence-against-women-reaches-level-of-genercide-islamic-supremacist-government-resists-refo.html#comment-783609

    And the one child policy does not apply to muslims in China if they live in rural areas, two children are allowed, and muslims don’t abort female fetuses unlike most other non muslims in china, so there isn’t a skewed sex ratio.

  84. says

    Horse:
    Maybe all hadith are not followed by some muslims. That is because they are not sufficiently “devout” muslims. The same with the exceptions that you are trying to defend. Mark my words: the tide is toward all muslims becoming more “devout” including your Hui people.

  85. says

    Horse,

    Answer my question:

    Sorry, Horse, but this chicka is nothing but a Lebanese tart with her t*ts hanging out, singing gibberish in a monotone rhythm common to arab music. I wonder about the real motive so many millions (of muslim men) listen to her?

    Oh, we’re sill waiting for your answer to duh_swami’s question. Then mine.

    You can’t answer either question because islam is an empty reprobate cult that can not defend itself based on logic.

  86. says

    Every single country in the world has a national anthem, including all muslim countries. name me a muslim country that doesn’t have a national anthem.

  87. says

    You have shown yourself to be a coward Horse…You are running away from my questions…Are you afraid? Are you ashamed? You make statements and then run away from backing them up? You have exposed your inadequacy, Allah is not going to be happy with you about that…Everyone is laughing at you…

  88. says

    Hello Horse. You said,
    “Every single country in the world has a national anthem, including all muslim countries. name me a muslim country that doesn’t have a national anthem.”
    That is for now. What about anthems when we have the worldwide caliphate that so many “devout”, that is, “extreme” muslims want?

  89. says

    Ducking bobbing and weaving huh Horse pucky?…Answer the question about my English Quran coward…is it the word of Allah or not?

  90. says

    You misinterpreted my statement. I meant it would be desireble for more Arabs to move to Turkey to settle there and arabdize the place as the birthrates in Arab countries shoot up, since Turkey’s birthrate is lower than Arabs.

    Arabic sounds better than any other language so theres nothing wrong with people learning Arabic. Arabs produce poetry, calligraphy, songs, when was the last time I heard of turkish Literature?

    1,300 years ago, Arabic was only spoken around the arabian peninsula, and the jordanian, iraqi, and syrian deserts. Now its spoken from the khaleej to the maghreb, and into the sudd in the sudan.

    Arabic has been studied for hundreds of years in muslim schools in China, it was the first universal language, no other language was that widely studied across a large span of the globe in the pre modern world

  91. says

    My, my, my, what an enormous ass you have!

    It must be so for all the crap you pull out of it!

    You just make this up as you go.

    Go back to the imam, horse’s ass, for surely you failed taqiyya 101.

  92. says

    Oh dear, so much of Horse-manure all over this thread!!!

    KP

    I particularly agreed w/ your statement that India has to throw off all loan words – listening to most ‘Hindi’ conversations these days makes me think that I’m in Pakistan and listening to something in Urdu.

    Great response to Horse the first time about how free Hindu women were before the advent of Islam. Incidentally, the same is true about the pracice of sati – it was hardly practiced in pre-Islamic India (even though widows lived a deprived and miserable life). For instance, Harshavardhan was a major ruler in North India who ruled during the same time the Mohammed was raping Arabia, and his brother-in-law, who was the ruler of Kanauj had been killed and his sister captured by the enemy. She escaped and tried to commit suicide, but he found her in time and after rescuing her, took her back home, and she didn’t commit sati, but lived the rest of her life w/ her brother.

    In Rajputana, there was this practice of Jauhar which Rajputs introduced only after they saw first hand what Muslim invaders did to their womenfolk: previous Hindu enemies and armies never did that. This was the custom of the womenfolk of an entire city drugging themselves and self-immolating so that they didn’t become sex slaves of the Mohammedans. It’s important to note that they only did this in response to the Muslims: in the 18th century (long after Jauhar had become the norm), when the Marathas, in course of their conquests, captured Rajput cities, no Jauhar was committed, since the Rajputs knew that despite their anger @ the Marathas for trying to conquer their territory, the Marathas followed Hindu practices and weren’t going to rape their women. I sympathize w/ those women, but the alternative would have been the rise of Hindu equivalent of the Ottoman Janissaries.

    Even for sati, it only became widespread after Muslim conquests in India, when Hindus recognized that just letting them live as widows risked Muslims horning in and trying to take advantage of their situation by taking them into their harems. That’s why it became the norm, until the Brits, supported by some Indian reformers, went ahead and abolished it.

    One more thing about honor killings and violence against women – they have pervaded several Muslim cultures, and are there in most Muslim cultures – Paki, Kurd, Turkish, Arab, Iranian, Afghan, et al. Not to justify the Hindu honor killings he cites, but those are restricted to ~3-4 communities in India, and are hardly there in all India, let alone in all Hinduism (Nepal, Bali, Guyana, Trinidad, et al). So while the ill-treatment of women is endemic in Muslim societies, it’s relatively marginal in both India and China. In fact, in China, it was hardly there b4 China’s one child policy, and it’s not there in Taiwan, in whose case Horse likes to cite as having much in common w/ PRC when it comes to their foreign relations.

  93. says

    I’m not just talking about ill treatment, I’m talking about female abortion, we also have imbalance in taiwan as well.

    Abortion is now very common in Taiwan- most fetuses aborted are female, so the sex ratio is skewed as well. The Quran says don’t abort females so thats another reason non muslims should shut up when it comes to who aborts more babies.

    And if DDA starts the crap again about china and female abortion having to do with “post maoist ogliarchs”, heres some news- the percentage of christians is lower in Taiwan than China, even though there are no restrictions on proselytizing in Taiwan.

    I don’t agree with the regime in China, but their policy has nothing to do with the skewed sex ratio, since the people like aborting so much, without a policy forced upon them. There is a very high abortion rate in Taiwan, and most victims are girls, not boys.

    So come to Taiwan instead and see if you can stop our baby hating women from killing more female fetuses.

    And the Malaysian chinese birthrate is also lower than the malay birthrate- the only way a Chinese will have more than one child is if they marry a malay since Chinese girls hate having more children

    Malay Dep. Prime minister Tun Dr Ismail Abdul Rahman (his grandfather was a chinese convert who married a malay woman), had 6 children.

    Lee Kuan Yew, the former prime minister of singapore, only had 3 children. This is reflected in both malaysia and singapores birthrate where malay women have more children than chinese women.

  94. says

    “More Islamic self-culling:”

    If you love animals, and you try to mess with arabs, you’re in a world full of hurt. The only things getting culled in the Arab world are your precious animals, not muslims.

    ______________________________________________________________

    Syrian special forces eat scorpions, and at 6:39 in this video, one of the Syrian troops skins a Dog alive with his teeth and drinks the blood.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciIxsapx_Fk

    Lebanese commandos eat snakes live,

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7ad_1249581219

    Syrian teenage girls in special forces bite into live snakes and eat them, and Syrian teenage boys stab puppies to death

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9wXKlktdKI

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd7IhWKrGjs

    Syrian girls in special forces eat snakes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6j5bu_vlTc

  95. says

    “More Islamic self-culling:”

    If you love animals, and you try to mess with arabs, you’re in a world full of hurt. The only things getting culled in the Arab world are your precious animals, not muslims.

    ______________________________________________________________

    Syrian special forces eat scorpions, and at 6:30 in this video, one of the Syrian troops skins a Dog alive with his teeth and drinks the blood.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciIxsapx_Fk

    Lebanese commandos eat snakes live,

    http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7ad_1249581219

    Syrian teenage girls in special forces bite into live snakes and eat them, and Syrian teenage boys stab puppies to death

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9wXKlktdKI

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vd7IhWKrGjs

    Syrian girls in special forces eat snakes.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6j5bu_vlTc

  96. says

    A better game is to see who is following the misogynistic verses to the letter today…Who is it that straps on bombs and blows people up? Who is it that crashes planes into buildings because their god tells them to? Who is it that indulges themselves in honor killings, rape, lashings, stonings, and throwing gays off tall buildings?
    I suppose you are not counting the thousands of Mahoundians killed by other Mahoundians as in Iraq as murder…nor the thousands killed by Islamic terrorists…
    You don’t have a leg to stand on…so you better start grasping at straws…

  97. says

    Damian,

    You gave this invitation to people here:

    You post the most savagely misogynistic verses you can find in the Qu’ran, and I will post the most savage ones I can find in the Bible. Then we can compare them, see which are worst, and whose list is longer, okay?

    How’s this. Let’s compare Muhammad’s words on women with JC’s words. I think that’s a much more relevant and revealing game.

    You next say,

    Incidentally, if it is true that Muslims are unusually violent and murderous people, could someone explain to me why it is that murder rates average 2.4 per annum per 100,000 people in Muslim countries, whereas it is 7.5 in non-Muslim countries?

    Let’s make the elephantine assumption that the statistics Saudi Arabia reports on murder are accurate. According to one set of statistics, it appears that Saudi Arabia has a very low murder rate, about 1 out of every 300,000 people, per year. Lower than Germany (1 out of every 50,000) or the United States (1 out of 25,000). Still, I don’t know of many Americans or Germans who would trade in their citizenship and go become a Saudi simply because the chance of being murdered drops from 1 in 25,000 to 1 in 300,000. In other words, Damian, you have completely missed the point: most people here are concerned about Islam not because of the violence of individual Muslims. It’s not that we think Muslims are crazed banshees without purpose or goal. Our concern is the goal, which is Islamic discrimination, social and legal, against non-Muslims. We see Muslims as seeking to dominate, and often using terror and intimidation to do so. We are not concerned about differential murder rates, which will affect only a tiny number of people. We are concerned about human rights, the lack of which could affect everyone.

    Check out these pie charts from the international human rights organization Freedom House. Scroll down to the regional pie charts. The pie chart for the Middle East/North Africa — which happens to be the core Islamic region — shows the most unfree area in the world. However, one country included in the Middle East/North Africa pie chart is listed as “free.” Can you guess which one that is? (Hint: It’s not Islamic.)

  98. says

    Duh_swami,

    I propose that anytime horse’s ass posts his drivel, we all ignore it and just repeat your question about mein kuranmpf in English.

    He’ll either give in and give some half-assed answer or just go away.

  99. says

    Arabic is the most important language in the world and should not be insulted in favor of substition.

    A group of christians, with bibles in their own languages, can go on for hundreds of years without even bothering to concern themselves with what language it was originally in.

    But no, not muslims. There must always be an Arabic Quran in existence, just like the jews always keep their torah in hebrew, and don’t use english copies of the torah or whatever language they are living in.

    if muslims don’t have access to an arabic language quran, and are using translations, then they are fake like the Nation of Islam organization in America, who are not muslim.

    In china, africa, the caucasus- the arabic language quran has been used for hundreds of years- no one even bothered a Chinese translation until Ma Dexin did so in the 19th century.

  100. says

    “if muslims don’t have access to an arabic language quran, and are using translations, then they are fake like the Nation of Islam organization in America, who are not muslim.”

    Well, folks you’ve heard it from the horse’s mouth: allah is an arab supremacist. Thank you for clearing that up for us. I’m going to blow up to poster size and print out a couple thousand copies of your post.

  101. says

    Read his reply, champ.

    It is more than half-assed, it’s beautiful. In one paragraph the horse’s ass so succinctly and matter of factly crows about allah’s and his own arabic supremacy and racism.

  102. says

    lol, Istanbul_Chick! …dang that’s a really large pile of horseshit – all in defense of muhammad the unmagnificent and his loser legacy. How anyone can defend a heartless, soulless criminal like muhammad and his ilk is beyond me.

  103. says

    “Note that the top 10 countries on this list (i.e. those with the highest murder rates in the world) are all Christian countries. Indeed, if you look at the top 50 countries, you will see that 43 (86%) of them are predominately Christian, while only 5 (10%) of them are predominately Muslim (namely: Sudan, Niger, Chad, Mali, and Mauritania).”

    If you’re a kuranimal I must point out that there is only ONE “Christian country.” A Christian country, to be called so, must be a theocracy and have a constitution or judicial laws based on Christian canonical texts. Only one country fits that bill: Vatican City. You are ignorantly false in your claims of statistics in “Christian” countries. Predominately “Christian” countries are secular countries. That means religion plays no role in government or enforcement of laws.

    While you’re copying and pasting from your islamist sites you might want to poke around in the censuses of those “Christian” countries and find out the actual percentages of practicing Christians. Better yet, check out the statistics gathered by actual churches on the percentage of actual church attendees. You’ll be shocked at how low it is. All those stats you copy and pasted from islamist sites only have data from what questions were asked. And the questions are skewed, their misleading and…are you ready for it….out of context!One of those questions is “What cultural or religious burial rites would you prefer?” The choices are Christian/Catholic, Christian/Protestant, Christian/Other denomination, Hindu, muslim, Tribal/Native:________(space to fill out specific Tribe, and Other.

    And most folks, myself included, don’t actually have any preference other than being stuck in the ground or cremated so we tick either OTHER or Christian/Other denomination or maybe the religion of our parents. That in no way makes us practicing Christians. So all your islamist statistics prove is that the majority of people on a census asking about their burial preferences preferred to be buried in a Christian way.

    So just like your dead Yemeni hero who “wasn’t really a muslim” but was buried in a muslim fashion we’re not really Christians but want to be buried in a Christian way.

    Now, if you’re some leftarded liberal loon I will personally like to take you out behind the woodshed and kick your ass from here to Timbuktu for being a smarmy, snarky little hypocritical bastard. You loony libs are always the FIRST and LOUDEST ones to scream AMERICA IS NOT A CHRISTIAN COUNTRY OUR CONSTITUTION IS NOT BASED ON CHRISTIAN LAWS! Yet here you are quoting skewed stats from your muslim masters’ sites AND counting, as a “CHRISTIAN” country, the very same country that you so vehemently claim is NOT a Christian country.

    The utter hypocrisy, mental gymnastics and muscle power it takes to speak not only out of both sides of your mouth but your ass as well is staggering.

    After reading your twisted, false and hypocritical drivel,the ass whooping I give to the first libtard that claims America is a Christian country to defend his or her lies about their islamic masters will be SPECTACULAR!

    And guess what? I will use a play from your liberal handbook. I will blame YOU for his or her ass whooping! Just like you blame us “racists” and “bigots” for inciting violence every time a kuranimal somewhere saws off someone’s head I will claim YOU and your anti-American incitements to violence made me do it!

  104. says

    What is really tragic is the horse’s ass is not even an arabic kuranimal.

    I gather from his posts the poor soul is Uighar.

    A complete traitor to his ancestors. But not surprising, this is what islam does, it conquers and wipes out all traces of the conquered people’s culture.

    I have a friend in Turkey who has an uncommon name. It is uncommon because it is the name of an ancient sky god from his Mongol ancestor’s pre-islam days. his sister is named after water goddess from the same time frame.

    He gets furious when fellow Turks tell him it is not a Turkish name. He always replies “My name is more authentically Turkish than your arabic name!” I would imagine, at most, a handful of the entire world’s population of Turks knows of any stories, mythologies, literature and most importantly the languages of their pre-islamic Greek, Mongolian or Hun ancestors. Because, islam wiped it all out. Language is the most important element of our individual cultural identities.

    My mom and just about any Irishman or woman you meet can re-tell stories of ancient Celtic kings and queens in English and Gaelic despite Christianity’s “conquering” of Ireland. She can also recite scripture in English, Irish Gaelic and Latin.

    Buddhist Indians know the stories from ancient India and India’s Hindus can tell you all about Buddha’s life. And they can do so in Hindi, English, Urdu and some even in Sanskrit. According to my ex-husband his kuranimal countrymen couldn’t even read Sanskrit.

    islam is a degenerate, supremacist parasite that literally sucks the life out of conquered cultures. Horse is a shining example of the damage that it does. Imagine worshiping a god who rejects your native language, the language you learned from your parents and demands that you replace your customs, habits, and entire culture with that of a people very different from your own. He will never know the love and security of a deity that can understand any language and will accept your prayers no matter which language you whisper them in.

    It’s tragic because to any critically thinking person this annihilation is not from any god, it is simply the racist manifesto from a dead bronze aged illiterate arab tradesman.

    But, on a lighter note I am tickled pink that finally we got a kuranimal to admit, in writing, that allah is indeed a “racist.”

  105. says

    Excellent post, Istanbul_Chick! …so spot on. Thank you. And no, I cannot imagine worshipping a god like that – not at all. Showing reverence to an evil god like allah is completely foreign to me …

    And this past week I’ve requested that Robert please ban Horse from posting any more due to his inane contributions, etc – but in thinking it over, Horse does serve this forum quite well by reminding us – yet again, just how EVIL and twisted islam & company truly are. Not only through overt manifestations such as terrorist attacks, the ones we read about nearly every single day on JW, but through covert means like lying & deceit – the tactics with which Horse constantly uses here; and as you pointed out, Horse is indeed a shining example of the damage islam causes. Hear, hear!

  106. says

    First of all, I’m not a Uighur, and second, why don’t you complain to the Jews on how the torah they use in their synagogue is in hebrew, not english, and why they study the talmud in aramaic and hebrew and not use english translations as the yeshiva….. also ask them why they are the “chosen people”, before complaining about Islam.

  107. says

    And lets take a look at what your featured and praised JW commentator’s Deebartok’s friendly greetings-

    The first three are directed at defender of Islam.

    The last two comments linked were directed at me, When i responded to another user talking about thailand (gravenimage hijacked the topic by talking about thailand, i just responded, and then deebartok kindly indulges me with curse words and death threats.

    In the second one, I was talking about gaza, the main topic of the article, when deebartok again cursed and posted a death threat.

    you’re an inbred idiot, obviously. Go have sex with Prince Naif’s 10 year-old – daughter, why don’t you?

    It was repealed, dumbass

    IS NOT A RACE, dumbass

    “Just go die” “AND my wife is Filipina, asshole.”

    “GO DIE!” YOU AND YOUR DUMBASS “students”

    The last time, on the iranian general posting, it was Dumbledoresarmy who went offtopic, speaking about Russia and India in an article about an iranian general, and i merely responded.

    http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/04/top-iranian-general-western-states-must-pay-respect-to-muslims-holy-book-the-quran-as-much-as-they-s.html#comment-782289

  108. says

    We’ve told you before you horse’s ass, we DON’T CARE if deebartok threatened to rape you favourite farm animal.

    We understand deebartok’s utter rage at your repetitive drivel, your spamming and your repeated refusal to answer direct questions. When I get to the point where I can’t take your islamic lies, racism and hypocrisy it will make you pray to your racist allah that deebartok were merely “giving you death threats.” I lived in dar al islam and I LEARNED FROM YOUR FELLOW KURANIMALS how to humiliate, threaten and intimidate in the most vile and islamic ways.

    We DON’T CARE if Indonesian kuranimals are “racist” against you because you’re not Indonesian. I can’t speak for anyone else but I actually feel a flutter of joy at hearing that YOU A KURANIMAL get’s to feel what you, your allah and all of your co-cultists inflict upon kaffrs all around the world on a daily basis. In short it makes my heart feel good when you kuranimals get a taste of your own medicine and I love the irony when it comes from your fellow kuranimals.

    I can only speak for myself, but if someone were to actually harm you I would take great pleasure in your pain. I take pleasure in the pain of all you racist degenerate kuranimals. NONE OF YOU ARE INNOCENT! I take pleasure when karma gives you back what all of you so richly deserve.

    We’ve got a few adages in English that apply not just to you but all kuranimals because you are all whiney, lying hypocrits:

    If you can’t take the heat stay out of the kitchen.

    If you can’t take it don’t dish it out.

    Sticks and stones (and muslim bombs) may break your bones but words can never harm you.

    And again, in case you forgot: NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR FEELINGS.

  109. says

    Not all Jews speak Hebrew, horse’s ass.

    They certainly don’t call Jews who read Torah in English “fake Jews.” Nor does their god. Therefore there is no need for me to ask any Jews.

    Beyond being a religion, Judaism is an ethnic identity anchored around a shared language hence the reason Jews don’t proselytize(conquer in islam) and few people convert. And since the god of the Jews and the god of the Christians is one in the same, and Christians are not identified with one ethnicity but many it would be one racist and STUPID god (example: allah) that only accepted/understood one language.

    islam, on the other hand is not a race or ethnicity. it is an ideology whose creator, muhammad was an illiterate arab tradesman.

    islam conquers and replaces the conquered peoples’ language and culture, their very ethnic identities.

    Judaism and Christianity don’t do that.

    islam is a one trick pony that drags new ponies to its circus by hook and by crook and kicks, bites and charges the new ponies if they don’t do the same trick as pony number one over and over and over because pony number one foolishly believes HE is the only smart one. And the pony handler speaks only ONE phrase: Don’t think. Just do as I say. And he only understands one phrase: Yes, master.

    Judaism and Christianity are a three ring circus that invites any and all to join the fun in an atmosphere that praises god and encourages individualism, camaraderie, teamwork and the input of each individual in the show. It is an atmosphere of growth and community. And the ringmaster is a multi-lingual genius who takes enormous joy in speaking to all of his ponies and performers in any language they choose. He is afterall the one who gave them those languages and he has no preference for any single one.

    But you’re too indoctrinated with allah’s hate and bitterness to understand those analogies.

  110. says

    Istanbul_Chick,
    And that goes not just for the comment I replied to, but also for your other comments on this thread: your intelligence is appreciated.

  111. says

    Thank you and right back at you, Traeh.

    I’ve notices your list of people who live in hiding or have had death threats keeps getting longer and longer.

    It never ends.