Another one of those "misunderstandings" seems to have cropped up again. Funny how that keeps happening. The crime this time? The priest received a license to renovate his church, and moved ahead with it. "Muslims Surround Church in Upper Egypt, Threaten to Kill Priest," by Mary Abdelmassih for the Assyrian International News Agency, June 24:
(AINA) -- Hundreds of Muslims surrounded the church of St George today in the village of Beni Ahmed West, 7 KM south of Minya, vowing to kill its priest Father George Thabet, who was serving the morning mass and was locked in the church with a number of parishioners. Security forces arrived five hours later and escorted Father George in a police car to the Coptic Diocese in Minya. "Father George looked as if he was the criminal, leaving his church in a police car." said one of the eye-witnesses. The Coptic youth who were attending mass remained inside church to defend it from Muslim attacks.
Eyewitnesses reported the Muslim mob, in their white dresses and long beards, chanted "We will kill the priest, we will kill him and no one will prevent us." One of their leaders said that they will "…cut him to pieces."
It was reported that no police or security of any kind was present during the events.
The attacks on St. George Church trace back to March 23, 2011, when Muslims had surrounded the 100-year old church, which held a renovation license, and ordered the church officials to stop construction immediately and undo what they had completed, otherwise they would demolish the church after Friday prayers. They had placed several demands on the church authorities, including the banning of Father George Thabet from Beni Ahmad village and gave him a time limit of 35 days, later extended to 50 days, to leave the village with his family. Muslims accused him of making extensions to the church and of causing sectarian strife. The Archbishop of Minya had sent a priest two months ago to assist Father George, in order to diffuse the situation, but the Muslims resumed their pressure on the church (AINA 4-9-2011).
Muslims started congregating near the church in small numbers since the evening of June 21, after learning that Father George is returning to the village. It is believed they were angry and wanted to kill him because he defied the ban they placed on him.
The archdiocese of Minya issued today a statement formally reiterating its strong dissatisfaction with the incident and denouncing the "return of the Salafists to besiege St. George's church again, some carrying weapons, threatening to kill the priest unless he leaves the village."
The statement rejected the interference in church affairs, saying the issue of care of the church is the responsibility of the church authorities alone, and not of any person or group. It called on government officials and security authorities to do their part in upholding the rule of law and maintaining security in the country.
The archdiocese refused any preconditions to negotiate with political and security officials, demanding the security forces disperse the demonstrations before any negotiations can take place.
After Father George left the church the Muslim mob remained until security arrived to disperse them. The Muslims threatened that if they do not hear from the military commander by tonight that the priest is banned from returning to the village, they will hold their Friday prayers tomorrow, June 24, inside St. George's church.
AdnKronos International and AsiaNews have also picked up this story. Their respective reports can be found here and here.
Exodus 7:12
For those who like geography and might wonder where this place is, the Google Earth coordinates are 28.0419N, 30.7687E. It is in the fertile Nile valley, about 140 mi south of Cairo. Looks like a town of maybe a couple thousand people or so. The nearest airport (~9,500 ft runway) is El Minya, mentioned in the story. There are six fighter jets parked on one of the aprons and aircraft revetments off both ends of the runway, so it might be a military airport.
"The attacks on St. George Church trace back to March 23, 2011, when Muslims had surrounded the 100-year old church, which held a renovation license, and ordered the church officials to stop construction immediately and undo what they had completed, otherwise they would demolish the church after Friday prayers."
It is difficult for Christians to get a renovation license in a Muslim country. It may take years to obtain one. Now the Muslims are clearly demonstrating that even if you get one you will not be allowed to use it. The Muslim claim that they will tolerate other religions is indeed a false claim. The Muslims clearly lie..
Just remember dear believers that the God of peace will soon crush Satan (Allah) under our feet! Romans 16:20 but until that time, let us get the Christians out of muslim countries. Loby your congress man!
Not just Christians - get all non-mohammedans out of mohammedan countries.
And, even more important, get all mohammedans out of non-mohammedan countries!
Isolate the disease; no trade, no protection money, no aid, no diplomatic envoys, no modern medicine, technology or other benefits, minimal contact. If they want to live in the 7th century, let them get on with it - alone!
Blackstonian dominated countries need more Christians, not less but getting back to the destruction of churches, this is a classic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xvDZupn_rEk
I had a dialog with a very decent Muslim on Loonwatch. He considered the actions in Pakistan against Christians to be reprehensible, and did not want Islam to be judged by only Pakistan.
Fair enough. It is reasonable to argue that in one country, the local culture and government determined their actions, rather than the religion itself.
But, we see what appears to be a laboratory experiment. The country of Malaysia is majority Muslim, with increasing pressure on, and harassment of, Christians, as AntiJihad details so vividly. Iraq and Egypt both throw off strongly secular governments, examples of a democratic process in a majority Muslim country, with resulting and dramatic persecution of Christians, unhampered by the authorities.
Incidentally, the Muslim-dominated areas of France and Sweden are notorious for their attacks on women and particularly on Jews.
So, my Muslim friend seems to be presented with ever-stronger evidence that there is something in Islam itself which is aggressive, violent, and intolerant.
The situation of the Arab "Spring" makes me think of the German-Soviet Pact of 1939. Up to the signing of the pact, Communists had been representing themselves as the party of freedom and resistance to fascism. All of a sudden, they were exposed as being the brethren of the Nazis.
The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, as it was called, had a dramatic effect on western communist parties. Many of the true liberals, who were actually misinformed on the actual goals of communism, dropped out of the party. They were no longer able to reconcile their ideals with the reality of the totalitarian communist party. The communists who remained in the party were the true, hard-core believers, who were perfectly willing to use totalitarian means to achieve their vision of a perfect society.
It will be interesting to see if the obvious consequences of democracy in a Muslim society will have an effect on the adherents of Islam. At what point will rational Muslims look at the very obvious consequences unfolding in front of their eyes, and conclude that Islam is a religion more worth leaving than attempting to salvage.
Would totally agree but the West has one big problem. The Mohammedhans have most of the oil. Until we solve that problem then all bets are off.
Canada has the second largest petroleum reserves in the world. coal gasification is another short term solution so we should stop buying muslim oil!
Loonwatch? Shudder...
These incidents are just Mahoundians showing their true colors...again...and again...SOS is going off all over the place and the west snoozes...Well not entirely, there is Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Yemen, Pakistan, and Syria next...Wherever oppressed people are being killed or abused, Rasool Obama will strike...Except in defense of beleaguered Christians in the Mid East and elsewhere...
Those who burst into idealistic tears when they crossed the Soviet border in 'thirties, ignoring the hunger and the misery outside the cities and the hotels, they are long gone.
Those left are the hardcore ones we still see defending Molotov and Stalin for Doing The Right Thing.
Primitive Islam has the advantage learned through much longer time that Reason and Science makes no impression.
Egypt: Christian Girls Kidnapped and ‘Sold’
http://frontpagemag.com/2011/06/24/egypt-christian-girls-kidnapped-and-%e2%80%98sold%e2%80%99-2/
Egypt: The Victorious Islamists
http://www.aina.org/news/2011062418479.htm
This looks bad. The Christians have to be protected by the military forces from the general muslim population. It is very obvious that the secular security forces are keeping the Christians from being massacred by the muslims, but for how long? How long until the military forces are inundated by hordes of these jihadist muslims?
I just hope that those Christian who can should get out of this Islamic hellhole. To slow this down we should be doing all to isolate and embargo these muslims as well as to threaten cutoff of all aids.
How much longer must we tolerate the denials about systemic Islamic violence from libtards, dhimmis, and Muslim takiya experts? Those most knowledgeable about Islam, advocate and condone violence. That's a fact.
"It will be interesting to see if the obvious consequences of democracy in a Muslim society will have an effect on the adherents of Islam." (in analogy with the effect of the Nazi-Soviet nonagression pact of 1940).
Of course, we know it will have no effect whatsoever on true believers. But perhaps the real question is whether democracy - real democracy, not the one-vote-one-time kind, or the shams called "Peoples' Democratic Republics" or variants thereof - can take root on societies that have known only tyranny.
Muslim believers and their operatives advocating establishment of shariah-based legal systems like to use the argument that if "the people" vote to adopt this system, then this is the democratic expression of the "will of the people." On the surface it is, but this misses the point of democracy, which is more than just counting ballots. A real democracy also provides mechanisms for repealing or changing laws when they are, or become, abusive. Where is the democratic mechanism within Islam to repeal the blatant abuses found in the Qur'an and ahadith and enshrined in shariah law?
My operational definition of a functioning democracy is one that, in addition to containing machinery for periodically sampling the will of the people, has a record of change of government at least three times in succession without violence or bloodshed. Given the drift of events in the ME, it is not clear whether any of the countries involved in the "Arab Spring" are moving in that direction. We can hope that amidst all the Sturm-und-Drang they are moving, even if only in fits and starts, in that direction, but given the active involvement of the Muslim Brotherhood and allied groups it is not clear that they are.
"...nonagression pact of 1939."
Enough with the talk of democracy!
They'll HAVE democracy. What NOBODY seems to understand is the definition of democracy! In the USA, we don't have a democracy, we have a republic and that is to be sure that everyone is represented. A democracy is mob/majority rule.
Egypt for example is on their way to a democratic election yet when they VOTE for the guy that agrees with over 80% of the public wanting sharia law, people in the USA will decry it as not being democracy.
What everyone really means to say is that they want to see Western processes, civilization, morals, values, customs, etc adapted by and happily lived with by muslim countries. It's just not going to happen! So when we "cheer" for democracy in these countries we are really cheering on a more stringent islam because THAT is what the people want!
And to say that every christian should leave muslim countries is idiotic for a christian to say! Had the woman in Malasia not had the benefit of SOMEONE christian being in Malasia, she would have been born muslim, grown up and stayed muslim. Her life may be hard, misrable and her choice of what to believe may even cost her her life but she has found God and turned from allah. What would we prefer? What do you think SHE would prefer now knowing that she is saved and will see the face of God??? A life that is less difficult TODAY, or a harder life TODAY but treasure in heaven?
I find it somewhat amusing that old Pharaoh AND Osama been leaded both sleep with the fishes! Dont be messin' with The One True God!! (And dont mess with Texas,either)
f'sure
"Blackstonian"
Good one! Lots of spinoffs possible. Blackstonistan, Blackstonophobia, Blackstononazi, Blackstonosphere...
Israel now has the oil reserve larger than that of Saudi Arabia and they will have the clean technology to extract it within the next few years. We in Canada also have the resources.
Hundreds of Egyptian Muslims: "We will kill the priest, we will kill him and no one will prevent us."
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Well, this one "has it all". Re the 7th-century Pact of Umar, Christians are not to allow building or repair of churches without the express permission of Muslim authorities.
Here, even that isn't enough—likely because these pious Muslims don't consider the current Egyptian authorities "Islamic enough".
Note, also, that they aren't just threatening to stop the work—they are threatening to *murder the priest*.
More:
(AINA) -- Hundreds of Muslims surrounded the church of St George today in the village of Beni Ahmed West, 7 KM south of Minya, vowing to kill its priest Father George Thabet, who was serving the morning mass and was locked in the church with a number of parishioners. Security forces arrived five hours later and escorted Father George in a police car to the Coptic Diocese in Minya. "Father George looked as if he was the criminal, leaving his church in a police car." said one of the eye-witnesses.
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He does indeed. When security forces in Dar-al-Islam act to protect Infidels at all, it is usually to *arrest or imprison the victim* of Muslim aggression.
More:
The Coptic youth who were attending mass remained inside church to defend it from Muslim attacks.
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Notice that Egyptian security forces are doing nothing to protect the church...
More:
The attacks on St. George Church trace back to March 23, 2011, when Muslims had surrounded the 100-year old church, which held a renovation license, and ordered the church officials to stop construction immediately and undo what they had completed, otherwise they would demolish the church after Friday prayers.
.........................
Here they threaten to not only prevent renovation, but to *demolish the church outright* if the dhimmis don't comply.
Also, note the timing-the threat is to demolish the church "after Friday prayers"—that is, after the Muslim faithful have been whipped up into a frenzy by a violent Kutba.
More:
They had placed several demands on the church authorities, including the banning of Father George Thabet from Beni Ahmad village and gave him a time limit of 35 days, later extended to 50 days, to leave the village with his family. Muslims accused him of making extensions to the church and of causing sectarian strife.
.........................
They want to expel anyone who has had the temerity to repair a church. Note the accusation that the Christians were trying to "make extensions to the church"—because, under Islam, the church can only remain as it is or diminish. It cannot be allowed to expand—ever.
Also—for Muslims, surrounding a church, threatening to demolish it and murder its priest is not "causing sectarian strife"—but making repairs to a church *is*.
More:
Muslims started congregating near the church in small numbers since the evening of June 21, after learning that Father George is returning to the village. It is believed they were angry and wanted to kill him because he defied the ban they placed on him.
.........................
The "ban they placed on him"—never mind that this is not legal. As they see it, it is incumbent on any Infidel to obey any Muslim at any time.
More:
The archdiocese refused any preconditions to negotiate with political and security officials, demanding the security forces disperse the demonstrations before any negotiations can take place.
.........................
"Negotiations"—where law abiding citizens are expected to "negotiate" with a murderous mob—as long as that mob is Muslim.
More:
After Father George left the church the Muslim mob remained until security arrived to disperse them. The Muslims threatened that if they do not hear from the military commander by tonight that the priest is banned from returning to the village, they will hold their Friday prayers tomorrow, June 24, inside St. George's church.
.........................
Here, the Muslim mob wants to dictate to the somewhat more rational authorities. And if they don't get their way? Then they intend to take over the church outright. Once a space is used for Muslim prayers, it is ever after *considered a mosque*.
I haven't been able to find an update on this story. If the Muslims carried through on their threat to take over the church, the Christians may *never* get it back...