Once again, while we're told there is "no compulsion in religion" (Qur'an 2:256), there are in reality numerous means of coercion, many of which are enshrined in Islamic law. Qur'an 9:29 itself offers unbelievers the options of conversion, subjugation, or war -- but hey, no compulsion or anything.
And so it is easy for the lines between persuasion and compulsion to become blurred; those in power could care less about splitting hairs on where one ends and the other begins, and subjugated unbelievers would put themselves in danger by calling them out on it. For that matter, we have often seen stories of abducted non-Muslim girls' being forced to sign documents stating they converted willingly: compulsion in signing a document to prove there was "no compulsion."
"Pakistan, forced conversions of Hindu girls to Islam. Often unreported out of fear," from AsiaNews, June 14:
Lahore (AsiaNews / Agencies) - Young Hindu girls forced to become Muslim and forced to marry their captors, denounce Pakistani Hindus members of the Rights Movement for "scheduled castes" recently formed in Pakistan. They also call for greater respect for their rights. Hindus belonging to "scheduled castes", ie the protected Hindu minorities, form 6% of the total population of Pakistan, and 10% in the region of Sindh, but are under-represented in both public service and in the elected assemblies. In addition, the movement calls for the creation of a law for the registration of marriages of "scheduled castes" that used the term "Hindu" rather than "scheduled castes" in the column that specifies the religion in the registrar, and that the National Parliament promote a law against religious hatred against them.
The movement brings together various ethnic Hindu groups such as the Kolhi, Bhel, Bagri, Meghwar and Rawar. They have no permanent homes, living in temporary camps at the mercy of local land lords. Since the creation of Pakistan the number of seats in Parliament reserved for minorities has never gone beyond 10. This is why the Movement for Rights calls for granted lands, where they can establish their residence, that they be allowed to celebrate religious festivals and the application of the 6% quota reserved for them in public services. The leaders of the movement point out that the situation is such that the groups are kept in a state prison by landowners, and that instances of forced conversions of Hindu girls are extremely common, and not reported. They ask that measures are taken against those responsible.
The Christian minority suffers for similar reasons. A positive development should, however, be noted: a court in Rawalpindi has acquitted three Christians of blasphemy, even though fears that the three may become the target of an act of violence by Islamic radicals. On June 12 court judge Akhter Sarfraz ordered the release of Hector Haleem, Basharat Masih and Robin Masih because the prosecution was not able to provide evidence supporting the charges presented against them last year by a Muslim, Ghufran Sialvi. The accusation was that they had sent blasphemous messages. The court has opened an investigation to prosecute both the Police Commissioner for failure to provide evidence of the charges for the prosecution. Haleem, 55, runs an Pakistani NGO called "Peace Worldwide”.
Hello all,
Scheduled castes - what a lovely name that is. It embraces all that Hindus stand for. THEY, the loathed Brahmin Caste are the people who created the caste system.
"We are the learned ones , we are the only ones who have contact with God and you can only reach God through us....but there is a charge". This is the clever manipulation that they used to keep their dirty little foot on other people's neck.
Mind you ...it is this same scheme that led to the muslim invaders take over India so easily.
Splitting people by job function meant that only about 5% were allocated to become warriors and defend them.
Defeat them...and you have won all of India....if you ask the hindu farmer to fight "Oh sahib I can only put food in your army's stomach...I cannot fight"
If you ask the sanitation man to fight...." "Oh sahib I can only pick your army's shit up...I am not allowed to fight".
So thank you Brahmin Hindu for makiing oit so easy to bring the light of Islam to India".
This is the link to the Pakistani "Peace Worldwide"" of Hector Aleem.
And here a link to videos from outside the courtroom.
" So thank you Brahmin Hindu for making oit so easy to bring the light of Islam to India ".
Oh Baklava, I don't think that the darkness of Islam will be spread as easily as you think.
If you were right, India would already be a Muslim nation.
Sweetness.
Baklava, Hinduism does indeed have its faults. I was born a Hindu in India. I didn't like the caste system either. Manu, the Hindu lawmaker was explicit in his commands for women to be subjugated.
However, having said that, there are many pluses to Hinduism. Arya Samaj hindus reject the caste system. Also, yoga, meditation, pranayam, the chakra/nadi energy system have developed over 5,000 years and bring peace, balance and spirituality to people worldwide.
There is nothing in Hinduism that urges hindus to slaughter non-hindus. Hindus never left India and invaded Arabia and destroyed mosques, killed muslims and raped women. It was the other way around. There was no Hindu prophet that raped and killed non-muslim people and considered this noble.
Hinduism poses no international Terrorist threat to non-hindu nations and is not a prosylyzing faith. There is room for interpretation of scriptures in Hinduism, without people being slaughtered. Why, Buddhism and Sikhism grew out of Hinduism.
Thank you for your comments. You are again showing the defensive and reactive muslim mindset. Thanks for letting me clarify this issue to westerners here.
Baklava, there is a part of you that knows that islam is not spiritual. But your ego, your need to be right is a larger part. Peace.
sorry, in the above post i meant to write:
"There was no Hindu prophet that raped and killed non-hindu people".
Baklava, you sound like my ex-husband who is Indian.
All very true, but we have, here in America, the equivalent of the Brahmins: the ruling elite.
Weiners like Weiner, the "educators" (more like indocrinators) of academia, anything with a Kennedy in its name, "leaders" of fortune 500 companies, etc., etc.
Difference is, that although these scum have tried very hard to seperate us into classes most of us have not swallowed their cool aid. The islamists can take them out and despite being "shit shovelers" the rest of us will have no problem beating our shit shovels into swords.
I hear that threat over and over from islamists: "your soldiers will be paid by us, you're not organized, your leaders need us, we WILL own America just look at what is happening in Europe it's almost ours!"
Killing or getting in bed with the elites has worked for islamists before, as you noted about India, but, what they've never encountered before is the sheer stubbornous and determination of American NATIONALISTS.
We may be shit shovellers but we're not BROKEN shit shovellers.
"If you were right, India would already be a Muslim nation."
The caste system was a major weakness of the Hindus. Once the muslim armies had defeated the Hindu armies there were no more Hindus to fight, as other Hindus did not consider themselves to be from the warrior caste. The muslims felt free to take large parts of India for themselves and their Arab/Turk/Iran masters.
However this caste system did have a silver lining so to speak of. This led to the major deficiency in islam and jihad. Muhammed did mention that the muslim must fight the infidel in jihad and they must not fight those who will not fight. So therefore the muslims were coming across Hindus who did not fight them even in self defense. There simply was no organized resistance to them. Even muhammed did not envision this scenario.
Eventually the muslim gave up and settled down to taking all the wealth of the Hindus and setting up opulent lifestyles for themselves.
Thanks for that information, desidude.
Desidude "However this caste system did have a silver lining so to speak of. This led to the major deficiency in islam and jihad".
Sorry to burst your little silver lining....there is NO major deficiency in Islam....
But by your reckoning then the West should just give up...then Islam won't fight them ...becuase they don't have to.
Sounds like to you have found a solution to everybody's prayers....everybody ...please PUT YOUR WEAPONS DOWN and let us take over peacefully
Pure Sweetness
Baklava
What's the difference between being a slave to Allah or being a slave to Krishna ? It's all the same theologically - just blind submission to something illogical. Now, I do agree that the culture brought upon in today's Muslim world is violent and primitive and that non-Muslim societies are far more advanced but that's only in secular non-Muslim societies.
But if the argument is that one should not be a slave to Allah but instead to Krishna/Jesus/Buddah/Yawehh then it's a moot argument since all these deities are completely not worthy of worship or praise.
Desidude is not accurate - Hindus who didn't fight the Muslims were either massacred, or forcibly converted. The combined Muslim populations of India, Pakistan, Afghanistan and Bangladesh are testement to the latter, and 100m Hindus, Buddhists, Jains & Sikhs died b/w 1000AD and 1761AD.
The caste system's only blight - and its only visible characterestic outside India - was untouchability. But the caste system was the reason India remained Hindu despite being under Muslim rule for 700 years: people find it easier to identify and take pride in smaller, rather than larger groups. So once India was conquered, small Hindu communities outside the main Muslim cities would form castes like Jats, Brahmins, et al. And their pride in those subsects of Hindus is what ensured that they remained Hindus (Sitaram Goel has written a lot on this).
As for the above story, since being Hindus would be like waving a red flag in Pakistan, looks like those groups are using caste to slip under the radar, which is a good strategy. Incidentally, Muslims, for all their boasts of the equality of all Muslims, do have the caste system not only in India, but also in Hindurein Pakistan and Bangladesh, where Hindu influences were supposed to have been wiped out.
Whereever did you get the idea that either Hindus, or even Hare Krishna cultists, promote being slaves to Krishna? Even the latter is a bunch of Gita-centric monks who have tried to shrink-wrap the entire Hindu pantheon to just Krishna, and in the process sometimes have some anti-historical stances, like Krishna incorporating all the Gods including Brahma & Shiva, when he was just one incarnation of Vishnu.
If you do want to equate Islam to something, try the cults like the Branch Davidians, the Heavensgate cult, the Moonies, et al. Don't insult mainstream religions by comparing them to Islam!
Are you kidding ?! It's all the same slave-worship and bowing to some unseen diety. I can't tell you how many times my mother has gone to the temple and given money to some guru in a loin cloth who arrived to the temple in a nice BMW only to use his I-Phone as a book mark while reading some "holy Sanskrit verses." It's all a joke - it's all BS - all of it.
All religion is man made BS and there is no more need or benefit from it in today's world. Islam is what happens when people start taking their religion literally. Long ago most Hindus, Jews, and Christians became secular because it was the moral and logical thing to do but Muslims have been very difficult in evolving.
But the point still stands that if taken literally, there is nothing more moral about one religion than another.
Sorry to burst your bubble islam is full of deficiencies. Foremost is your damned belief that allah controls all. That allah rewards his jihadis. Muslims are so convinced of their own infallibility in war because allah is on their side that anything opposite is unthinkable, well, when muslims are faced with defeat by infidels they give up or run away. As we have seen most recently in Iraq and Afghanistan, too bad ignorance of their victory has pretty much turned the afghan adventure into stalemate in which we are now attempting to make peace with the very jihadists we defeated.
“But by your reckoning then the West should just give up...then Islam won't fight them ...because they don't have to.”
Do you think that the west are naïve fools? It can be argued that the Hindus of a thousand years ago were ignorant of isalm. In the Hindu ways of warfare, you had Hindu kings fighting other Hindu kings with their armies, the civilians and their properties either kings were untouched since they were not warriors. With muslims it was the opposite, the muslim targeted civilians as well as the armies. But the Hindus did wise up to the muslims and there were great Hindu and Sikh forces to fight and defeat the muslim armies.
If you think that the west will go down easily you are quite wrong. Islam is being exposed. More people are aware of its dangers. Islam will be defeated by education and on the battlefield.
Your mom would have done well not to tag you along, since you clearly were bored! Fair enough, but even if she has no idea of what her religion teaches and just believes in grovelling to that guru, that doesn't make the fact about that cult be that everybody is Krishna's slave! If your mom believes that, she doesn't have a clue!
What is the difference between a guru, priest, imam, pastor, and a tribal chief ? NOTHING - they are all con artists who are preying on the weak and fearful. They promise all these things in exchange for obedience and money. Name one religion that doesn't love it's tax exempt status and that doesn't have an offering plate - don't worry, I'll wait .....
Not to mention that no two religious groups every get along well with each other. In Northern Ireland you have people killing each other for 400 years because of what kind of Christian they were ! Religion is tribalism, pure and simple.
It must be so sad that you get your view of religious believers from MTV or Glee or whatever cariacature of believers you encounter.
I'm not particularly religious, but I know hundreds of believing Christians and Jews and several ministers. I have never known one of those leaders to be money-grubbing or the believers to be slavish worshippers of any kind.
You have such a misshapen view of the world, and as a result, cannot create a moral or ethical position that's based on reality. Just damn them all.
Why are you here, if not to fight against the jihad? What is the average believing Christian to you? Tax-exempt status? That's what you think motivates most of today's Christians?
You just have nothing to add to this conversation. Your hand-wringing over Northern Ireland and your mother's welfare notwithstanding, you have deluded yourself.
I respectfully suggest you cease in deluding others with your indiscriminate paint bucket flinging.
"In Northern Ireland you have people killing each other for 400 years because of what kind of Christian they were !"
LOSER!
THAT is NOT what the troubles were all about. You show your ignorance, just like every other moron who knows NOTHING about the troubles and starts spouting off about the Prods and Catholics.
Ijit.
Infidel Pride as lucid as ever. you are spot on with those comments!!
For the ignoramuses out here, please follow this link
http://historyscoper.com/tlwislam.html
As I mentioned the Hindu population was the target of the muslims. I didn't I want to go over the almost book length history of the bloody muslim occupation which included, massacres and other atrocities, forced conversions, slavery, and back breaking taxes. Those were the methods of the various muslim rulers.
The rigid caste system was what saved the Hindus. but I also like to add that Hinduism itself is not that rigid, the Hindus did maintain their religion and culture they adapted and even formed organized resistance against the muslims, these were mostly successful in the south and the Punjab area.