This round was Pakistan's chance to prove it could be trusted. That's not what Pakistan proved. "AP sources: Pakistanis tip off militants again," by Kimberly Dozier for the Associated Press, June 18:
WASHINGTON (AP) — U.S. officials say Pakistan has apparently tipped off militants at two more bomb-building factories in its tribal areas, giving the terror suspects time to flee, after U.S. intelligence shared the locations with the Pakistani government.
Their excuse amounts to claiming they are not sovereign over their own territory:
Those officials believe Pakistan's insistence on seeking local tribal elders' permission before raiding the areas may have most directly contributed to the militants' flight. U.S. officials have pushed for Pakistan to keep the location of such targets secret prior to the operations, but the Pakistanis say their troops cannot enter the lawless regions without giving the locals notice.
All officials spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss matters of intelligence.
The latest incidents bring to a total of four bomb-making sites that the U.S. has shared with Pakistan only to have the terrorist suspects flee before the Pakistani military arrived much later. The report does not bode well for attempts by both sides to mend relations and rebuild trust after the U.S. raid on May 2 that killed Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad, a Pakistani army town only 35 miles (56.32 kilometers) from the capital Islamabad.
The Pakistanis believe the Americans violated their sovereignty by keeping them in the dark about the raid. American officials believe bin Laden's location proves some elements of the Pakistani army or intelligence service helped hide the al-Qaida mastermind, bolstering their argument that the raid had to be done solo.
The U.S. officials explained Saturday how they first offered the location of the third, and then the fourth site, in order to give Pakistan another chance to prove it could be trusted to go after the militants.
In the tradition of 'trust but verify,' the Americans carefully monitored the area with satellite and unmanned drones, to see what would happen, after sharing the information a third and fourth time, the officials said.
In each case, they watched the militants depart within 24 hours, taking any weapons or bomb-making materials with them, just as militants had done the first two times. Only then, did they watch the Pakistani military visit each site, when the terror suspects and their wares were long gone, the officials said.
Pakistan's army on Friday disputed reports that its security forces had tipped off insurgents at bomb-making factories after getting intelligence about the sites from the United States. The army called the assertions of collusion with militants "totally false and malicious."
Army officials further claimed they had successfully raided two more sites, after finding nothing at the first two, but a Pakistani official reached Friday offered no details of what they found there.
The official admitted that in each raid, however, the Pakistani security services notified the local elders who hold sway in the tribal regions. The official said they would investigate U.S. charges that the militants had been tipped off.
Two U.S. officials said they were asking the Pakistanis to withhold such sensitive information from the elders, and even their lower ranks, to prove they could be trusted to keep a secret, and go after U.S. enemies....
Just shows how much trustworthy Muslims are .....
Another unrelated story "http://www.thisismoney.co.uk/news/article.html?in_article_id=537697&in_page_id=2&position=moretopstories"
Why am I finding Muslims involved in all rape, fraud , murder, pillage, arson,
Or looting - is it just me ? Am I an islamopjobe ? Sarc off /
Naively, the Americans are trying to tell the Pakistanis that when they get accurate info about jihadist activity, the Americans are watching to see what they do, so the Pakistanis had better come up to scratch.
However, the Americans can give the Pakistanis a dressing down about tipping off jihadists a 1,000 times and it won't make a blind bit of difference.
The Americans would have more success if they simply 'hell-fired' the target and then told the Pakistanis to go and verify.
Birds of an Islamic feather, stick together!
The US Congress needs to pull out all funding to the pak now!
l cannot understand their fear that the pak will be taken over by the taliban when they openly support the taliban! Tea Party people need to demand their tax dollars not support islamist states! save the billions for your own people!
The Pakistanis know, that there's little or no consequence for such actions and they will continue supporting terrorists till we start putting a "stick" in the equation...
the Washington Post reported a few days ago, that in spite of all the differences - we're still providing sophisticated arms to the Pakistanis...
see http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/checkpoint-washington/post/pakistan-still-getting-its-us-war-gear/2011/06/14/AG703nVH_blog.html
[...despite those differences, the U.S. military still supplies the Pakistani military with new, sophisticated intelligence collection and communications equipment.
The Army Communications and Electronics Command at Aberdeen Proving Ground recently put out a notice signaling that it may need contractors to train members of the Pakistani military on how to use a new “Ground Intelligence Surveillance and Reconnaissance (GISR) system.”
Developed by DRS Technologies, a high-tech military contractor based in New Jersey, the system intercepts and locates the sources of enemy communications and then permits continued monitoring of them. It also allows users to quickly analyze the collected data, including visual material, “to provide mission-critical intelligence to the warfighter.”...]
" The official said they would investigate U.S. charges that the militants had been tipped off ".
I think that I know how the " investigation ", will turn out.
I have a solution. Tell the pakistanis that these are girls schools or churches. Then they won't tip them off.
And they still have nukes.
Yah, why are they getting aid if they can afford nuclear weapons? I will never believe they deserve a red cent in aid if they spend the money that they do have on nuclear weapons.
"the Pakistani security services notified the local elders who hold sway in the tribal regions."
You don't suppose it is they who tipped the enemy off? Duh!
America is wishfully thinking that Pakistan, Iraq, Afganistan, the OIC, political Islam, Saudi Arabia, Islamist elitists and all who subscribe to the supremacist subjugation of non Muslims are our enemies, our mortal enemies.
Because "Joe Koran subscribing Muslim" doesn't personally participate in violent Jihadist activity does not mean he is your friend but rather a "stand by' mode Jihadist, whose allegiance lies with his Muslim brothers and not with yours.
His real mindset is to see America fail in it's effort to stop this scourge that has befallen our country. Don't be fooled by an Islamist invoked religious smoke screen. Behind the smoke screen is political Islam whose goal is to replace our political system with theirs.
See our Course Of Action. Vajonline.org
Grab the nukes and run...
"The official said they would investigate U.S. charges that the militants had been tipped off".
There stalling. Go in. Secure the nukes and cut the aid off NOW. Consider Pakestan an enemy, and remove US citizens. Then continue targeting the enemy as before, without notification. If they complain to the UN, and the UN doesn't rebuke them, cut the UN off.
Good line, Truthiocity. Thanks for the amusement.
But, to add my own two cents' worth to this thread, Pakistan is the main reason why the fight in Afghanistan cannot be won and why, now that Usama Bin Laden is dead, we should get out. If our supposed "allies" are so treacherous, we need to get every last man, animal, and every last cent we've got in the Afghan struggle home.
Such experiments are hardly necessary. All one need do is open the ignoble Qur'an to verses such as these:
Qur'an 3:28:
Let not the believers Take for friends or helpers Unbelievers rather than believers: if any do that, in nothing will there be help from Allah: except by way of precaution, that ye may Guard yourselves from them. But Allah cautions you (To remember) Himself; for the final goal is to Allah.
Qur'an 5:51:
O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.
Be it also remembered that Pakistan is the nation from whose military minds "The Qur'anic Concept of War" sprung:
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2007/01/the-quranic-concept-of-war.html
Dear Pakistan,
We will be discontinuing all military, economic, construction, and educational aid and financing to your Islamic country. You have proven to be unworthy of such aid and you have shown no propensity to improving the lives of your own people. You also have shown no desire to become a valued member of the 21st century civilization. You have continually provided aid and comfort to many terrorist organizations. You even gave them money that we sent to you to combat the terrorist and terrorism. YOu have repeatedly passed on confidential security information to the various terrorist organizations thereby allowing them to avoid efforts to hamper their terroristic plans and efforts which have allowed them to continue killing your own people as well as gallant men sent to help your remove the constant fear of terror in your country. These various terrorist organizations located in your country, financed and supported by your government has allowed these various terrorist organizations to export terror and death to many countries. Many of those countries are also financing and supporting the effort to rid the land of those whose goal is to simply kill all who will not submit to their sadistic whims. We, who have been trying so hard to help you will no longer do so.
By the way, We don't need your permission. We also are recommending that a ban be put into effect which will ban all immigration and visa requests from your country. Any of your countrymen currently in our civilized countries who find themselves convicted of a crime no matter how minor will immediately be deported back to your country to enjoy the hospitality and kindness of your own people and religion..
There is no need to reply, your behavior has already spoken volumes.
Cordially,
The peaceful and sane people of the 21st century.
'twill never change.
An important aspect of the Islamic "religion" is to cheat and lie. All in the Koran.
ipso facto Pakistan is systemically a liar state
SIMPLE really. Just cut off the Aid.
The UK hss finally recognised that Aid to India to support space and military programmmes (like Aircraft Carriers) which the UK can't afford) now has to be stopped.
Same MUST be true of Pakistan. STOP ALL AID AND TAKE OUT THE NUCLEAR FACILITIES BEFORE THE FUNDAMENTALISTS GAIN POWER. They WILL if unopposed. The Pakistani State seems unwilling to eliminate the viper in their midst. CUT OFF THE AID. Loss of income has a powerful effect for all.
There is another issue which is rarely explored. That is transfer of funds.
Major companies regularly , and totally legitimately. transfer funds.
Every day though funds are transferred from the UK (and the US and other western states) to Muslim states.
Some of that may well be support of family members. Some may be directly to the terrorists.
Whichever it is then the money transferred makes sure that the money is NOT used to support the host country and hence damages the host economy.
Time I think to ban all such transfers unless a well researched investigation has determined "totally innocent". Perhaps not even then. WHY exactly should I support, beyond the UK's stupid Aid Programme, people who choose to damage my economy?
Not fully explored but you must get the idea.
The official admitted that in each raid, however, the Pakistani security services notified the local elders who hold sway in the tribal regions.
Oh, those cunning 'elders'... nod nod, wink wink. ;-)
The Pakistanis are effectively saying that they don't consider these "militants" to be their enemies, which puts them on the same side....against us.
Has anyone in this reckless administration considered how many lives that this blunder will cost when you allow the brains, equipment and materiel of four bomb-making factories to escape. The Pakistani government is more of an enemy than their creation, the Taliban. The U.S. has been playing defense against the IED threat since the beginning of the war by giving our military the impossible task of finding and disabling devices planted on every stretch of road and goat path in Afghanistan. The enemy plants these devices all day and night, and even if we get 99% of these devices, there will be a great deal of casualties and disruption of military operations and supply lines. The taxpayers have sunk tens of billions of dollars into every conceivable scheme to combat IEDs and many more in building a fleet of mine-resisting vehicles, electronic counter-measures et cetera. It costs about 20 dollars to build a powerful IED, but it can cause incalculably high damage.
You can sink hundreds of billions of dollars to combat IEDs after they have been planted and still have an unacceptable number of brave Americans not returning home to their families or returning burned over 90 percent of their bodies and with multiple amputations or kill the bomb makers when you are lucky enough to know where they set up shop.
The Bush administration was not much better. Bushy let the Pakistani walk all over the US and turn around and use the billions of dollars of aid that we provided them into the Jihad against the US in Afghanistan and India in Kashmir.
I say stop all aid and cooperation with Pakistan, pull out of Afghanistan and continue to target militants by drone strikes from ships in the Arabian sea. Pakistan can burn.
Their brazen attitudes indicate that they are not worried about losing aid from the U.S. because their treachery will be condoned. Why? Does anyone know, even the idiots who squander our money, enrich and arm our enemies, and allow these primitive savages to migrate to and pollute our country? We are financing our own destruction.
Until the Anthony Weiner scandal hit the news waves, I did not know that Huma, Hillary's Saudi mole, was married to him. Has anyone looked at this woman's family, all of whom have close ties to the muslim brotherhood. She married a Jew yet is said to be a 'practicing muslim', although islam forbids the marriage of muslim women to non-muslim men. What's up with that?! Imagine the state secrets she has access to through Hillary and Anthony, and to whom she has leaked them. This scenario stinks to high heaven.
"[...despite those differences, the U.S. military still supplies the Pakistani military with new, sophisticated intelligence collection and communications equipment."
This is by far the worst stupidity the US government can engage in. We know two things about US technology that goes to Pakistan: 1) the Chinese will have access to it; 2) it will be used against India, a truly democratic and for-the-most-part a free society.
The US government, whether under democratic or republican administrations, consistently engages in counterproductive and catastrophic policies. Truthfully, I have no explanation. Even if we give Pakistan money, at least we have the fig leaf that Pakistan has to maintain control over its nuclear stockpile. I have no idea what the rationale is for Pakistan, a strong ally of Communist China, to receive sophisticated US arms. Pakistan has no external enemies in the region other than India, a country towards which Pakistan has continually taken hostile actions.
From your mouth brother. I just do not see the idiots in the government doing that, even if we elect a republican in the next presidential election. Go figure!
Why even care to remove all US citizens other than embassy and CIA station staff and families which a few navy transport helicopters could do in a forthright? Most so called Americans in Pakistan are naturalized "sh*t-handlers" or their US-born progeny. You can be sure that these will be safe and sound among their people to return in due course to do harm to the US in all the dishonest and destructive ways that even ordinary Muslims inflect on an infidel society.
When will those in authority recognise that moslems will never betray another moslem to those of another faith and country, no matter how wicked the moslem is.
This is so naive to put trust in the Pakistanis like this, it is worrying.
Now let's just get Allen West to sign it because Obama never would.
I have a friend in Iraq. He's a missionary. He's a good man, and is taking a big chance settling there to serve the Lord with his family. There are also many local Christians. Iraq is the same situation. I'd hate to see them all die because my country abandoned them. You can treat the government there according to what they deserve, but you can't lump the people all together and say they all deserve to die.
Here, again, the U.S. "intelligence" community theme song:
“We’ve been duped again:”
So CIA finally came right out and told it to ISI
What took it so long
It was in their eyes, that intel's been shared too long
CIA's waiting in line
Would ISI say if it was wasting its time
Or did CIA miss again
I think CIA got duped again oh
CIA thinks about it from time to time
When its been duped and on its own
CIA tries to forget and yet, still rushes to the telephone
CIA's waiting in line
Would ISI say if it was wasting its time
Or did CIA miss again
I think CIA got duped again oh
Or did DIA miss again
I think DIA got duped again oh
Well it feels like something CIA wants so bad
Then CIA thinks its got it, but it's something ISI already had
CIA can feel jihadists all around it, but they’re something it just can't touch
And jihadists can feel CIA coming at them
ISI can tell them CIA’s coming at them
Or did CIA miss again
I think CIA got duped again oh
Or did DIA miss again
I think DIA got duped again oh
CIA's waiting in line, but would ISI say if it was wasting its time
Plus ca change, ca change plus.
Not too different from the four Saudi princes and the Pakistani Air Force marshall who were eliminated after CIA informed the Saudis and Pakistanis about them in the aftermath of 9/11.
They've sucked the milk dry from the US teet since 2001.
The US has been played a chump by trusting in the Pakistanis. They played the same games with the British and many British regiments were slaughtered when ambushed in mountain passes.
We should no more trust any Muslim at his word. I am surprised that the US government chose to broker this deal with Pakistan.
We shouold get our troops out of those countries and get them home where they can defend their own families against attacks on our own turf. It is coming!
How can we be sure the Pakistani's are giving up the info? I say we let them have the info a 100 more times and if the bad guys find out all 100 times then we should maybe consider that the Paki's aren't being honest.......DUH..... As long as we keep electing RINO's and DEM's..... What's that saying about doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result?