SPLC fronts for the jihad, smears freedom fighters

robert-spencer-illustration_0.jpgThey want my head on a platter


Along with David Horowitz, Pamela Geller (who comments here), David Yerushalmi, Brigitte Gabriel, John Jay, and others, I've been named to "The Anti-Muslim Inner Circle" by the Leftist pro-hate and anti-freedom group Southern Poverty Law Center, whose officials make a tidy living running interference for Islamic supremacists.

ROBERT SPENCER

ORGANIZATION Runs the Jihad Watch website, a project of the David Horowitz Freedom Center. Co-founder with Pamela Geller (see above) of Stop Islamization of America and the American Freedom Defense Initiative.

CREDENTIALS Spencer has a master's degree in religious studies from the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. Co-produced with Geller the film "The Ground Zero Mosque: Second Wave of the 9/11 Attacks" (2011). Author of numerous books including The Truth About Muhammad: Founder of the World's Most Intolerant Religion (2007) and The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades) (2005).

SUMMARY Spencer is entirely self-taught in the study of modern Islam and the Koran.

It doesn't much matter, since "self-taught" does not equal "wrong," however much the SPLC and Islamic supremacists who make the same claim wish that it did. Still, this is an entirely false claim. I began studying Islam while in college, and took courses on it. In graduate school I studied with Gordon Newby, author of The Making of the Last Prophet and A Concise Encyclopedia of Islam -- which is not to say that he and I saw eye-to-eye on much of anything. While in grad school I wrote an extensive study of how the Qur'an's teaching on the crucifixion of Jesus Christ (see sura 4:157) was influenced by Gnostic Christian traditions. Certainly the bulk of my study of Islam I did after graduate school, but it is false to say I am "entirely self-taught."

Critics have accused him of doggedly taking the Koran literally — Spencer considers it innately extremist and violent — while ignoring its nonviolent passages and the vast interpretive tradition that has modified Koranic teachings over the centuries.

That's nonsense. Anyone can see an extensive discussion of the Qur'an's nonviolent passages, and of Islamic interpretative traditions regarding it, in my books Onward Muslim Soldiers and The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran. But also, that "vast interpretive tradition that has modified Koranic teachings over the centuries" seems to have eluded not only my grasp, but that of Islamic jihadists around the world -- and yet they, as we have seen again and again, pride themselves on their Islamic rigor and authenticity.

Spencer believes that moderate Muslims exist, but to prove it, they'd have to fully denounce the portions of the Koran he finds objectionable.

How terrible, to ask people to renounce faith-based violence (Qur'an 2:191; 4:89; 9:5, 9:29; 47:4; etc.), the oppression of women (Qur'an 2:282; 4:3; 4:34, etc.), sanctified plunder (Qur'an 8:1; 8:41), and all the rest of it.

Spencer has been known to fraternize with European racists and neo-fascists, though he says such contacts were merely incidental.

Not just incidental, but non-existent. I've never had anything to do with any racists or neo-fascists, and never would -- but this just shows how the Big Lie works: this false claim has been circulating for years, demonstrating yet again that if you repeat something often enough, then people will start believing it.

Benazir Bhutto, the late prime minister of Pakistan, accused Spencer of "falsely constructing a divide between Islam and West" in her 2008 book, Reconciliation: Islam, Democracy, and the West. Spencer, she wrote, presented a "skewed, one-sided, and inflammatory story that only helps to sow the seed of civilizational conflict."

Yes, there is no divide between Islam and the West. Pakistan's close alliance with the United States and heartfelt cooperation in getting bin Laden shows that. And remember that Benazir herself was so interested in heading off civilizational conflict that she funded and armed the Taliban in Afghanistan.

IN HIS OWN WORDS "Osama [bin Laden]'s use of these and other [Koranic] passages in his messages is consistent … with traditional understanding of the Quran. When modern-day Jews and Christians read their Bibles, they simply don't interpret the passages cited as exhorting them to violent actions against unbelievers. This is due to the influence of centuries of interpretative traditions that have moved them away from literalism regarding these passages. But in Islam, there is no comparable interpretative tradition."
— From The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades), 2005

Uh huh.

"Where is moderate Islam? How can moderate Muslims refute the radical exegesis of the Qur'an and Sunnah? If an exposition of moderate Islam does not address or answer radical exegeses, is it really of any value to quash Islamic extremism? If the answer lies in a simple rejection of Qur'anic literalism, how can non-literalists make that rejection stick, and keep their children from being recruited by jihadists by means of literalism? Of course, as I have pointed out many times, traditional Islam itself is not moderate or peaceful. It is the only major world religion with a developed doctrine and tradition of warfare against unbelievers."
— Jihad Watch, Jan. 14, 2006

Yep.

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SPLC shills for radiclib causes--it's a badge of honour to be at the inverse of their sort of "respectable opinion," of prevailing radiclib orthodoxy, their idea of Polite Society.

Keep slugging it out with these dolts.

[Excuse my affectation of Brit usage.]

Southern Poverty Law Center is trying to justify its existence and they have rep;aced African Americans by Muslims. Is there any need for such a hypocritic organization after Americans elected Obama as their President.

SPLC is just looking for new customers. I have seen their president on CNN and he always comes off as a sleezy character without any facts to support his claims!1

Say, you just reminded me that June 24 is the liturgical feast day of John the Baptist [continuing on a personal note, St. Joanna (May 24) is said by pious legend to have buried the severed haed of the Baptist.]

Just add a halo and a silver platter, and your image is transformed into Saint John's icon!

IF (Heaven forbid), Mark Potok & company were given what they so subliminally desire, would that make you a Christian saint, or a Muslim shahid and prophet, both saint and martyr, or neither, Robert?

Benazir Bhutto, the late prime minister of Pakistan, accused Spencer of "falsely constructing a divide between Islam and West" in her 2008 book, Reconciliation: Islam, Democracy, and the West. Spencer, she wrote, presented a "skewed, one-sided, and inflammatory story that only helps to sow the seed of civilizational conflict."

Benazir also, you'll recall, funded the Taliban in Afghanistan.
....................................

I think there's an even more salient point to be made re Benazir Bhutto. Despite her *funding the Taliban*, and generally being much less of a "moderate" than the hopeful West liked to believe, she was considered "moderate" enough *that she was murdered by Jihadists*, who did not believe she was Islamic enough.

All too many Muslims agreed with them...

Moslem Logic

How could Spencer be entirely self-taught in the study of modern Islam [sic] and at the same time hold a Masters degree in religious studies from UNC? Either his professors ignored him or the curriculum of the Divinity School at Michael Jordan University didn't cover one of the world's great Abrahamic faiths.

*** 33:21 ***

I wonder if the professors are still ignoring him. Probably. Except maybe for that Petrodollar Whore professor Esposito on sinecure at Georgetown. And what an intelluctual dump that joint is.

From the article:

Benazir Bhutto, the late prime minister of Pakistan, accused Spencer of "falsely constructing a divide between Islam and West" in her 2008 book, Reconciliation: Islam, Democracy, and the West. Spencer, she wrote, presented a "skewed, one-sided, and inflammatory story that only helps to sow the seed of civilizational conflict."
_______________________

Well, I hate to speak ill of the dead, but doesn´t the credibility of her statement and her book (at the expense of Mr. Spencer)come up for question, since she was the victim of assassination by the very same groups she wishes to extol?

Maybe we should sign up SPLC as a JW Contributor. They selected some of Robert's best material ever-- concise, and impossible for an open mind to deny.

Besides promulgating such common sense to a wider audience, SPLC's twisted impression that such basic reasoning is evidence of bias and mean-heartedness betrays a thoroughly partisan perspective impervious to normal human communication and reasoning.

LMAO - nice picture, Rob. Their artist seems to have captured you in some moment of planning your vily vileness.

Curious: why not sue the bastards? I bet SPLC has some very deep pocketses.

Benazir Bhutto is but one of untold numbers of Muslims slain by the pious followers of Islam who had determined that the Muslim victims weren't towing the Islamic party line and therefore "weren't Muslim enough".

A great number of Muslims who were interested in modernizing Islam to make it a more peaceful religion have also been brutalized and slain because they "weren't Muslim enough".

You know you are Muslim enough when you have blown yourself to bits and have successfully taken others with you...Of course the other victims don't necessarily have to be Infidels...

Afterall....like the signs carried by Muslim protestors say..."We love death more than life"

And Islam's pious followers do all they can to teach their children to carry on the Islamic family traditions....

There are some things you can never change and 7th century Islam is one of those things...

Spencer is entirely self-taught in the study of modern Islam and the Koran.

Hence, entirely unindoctrinated. A damn good way to be.

Even in the case that someone is self-taught that does not invalidate what he says (as RS pointed out). This is just another instance of the fallacy of Argumentum Ad Hominem which Mussies are continually making and apparently never grasping any attempt to explain it to them.
Most of us would necessarily be self-taught on this subject and as Papa Whiskey remarked "unindoctrinated. A damn good way to be."
Once again this is an attempt to represent Islam as unkowable.
I have watched many videos on youtube by ex-muslims like Nonie Darwish and a typical muslim comment would be "HE/she knows nothing about Islam". This is absurd. We are talking about people who were brought up and lived in Islamic countries!
Also, any subject can be studied by anyone and devotees must answer any questions/objections raised.
Instead what we get from muslims is "You don't understand Islam"..etc.
The fact is we understand Islam better than muslims since we are not blind to its real teaching, history and practise.

It doesn't much matter, since "self-taught" does not equal "wrong,"

No, self taught does not equal wrong - not all. The greatest purpose of education is to teach people how to teach themselves. Eventually, anyone who would find something interesting becomes an autodidact anyway. Teachers and degree programs can take one only so far.

Mr. Spencer's detractors are the type who decide everything by age twenty and are loath to teach themselves anything after that. Ironically, to do otherwise would contradict post-modern orthodoxy. The world outside of the little universe made by Foucault and Friends is, well, haraam.


"How could Spencer be entirely self-taught in the study of modern Islam [sic] and at the same time hold a Masters degree in religious studies from UNC? Either his professors ignored him or the curriculum of the Divinity School at Michael Jordan University didn't cover one of the world's great Abrahamic faiths."

I was wondering the same thing, APF. And I think you have provided the answer: UNC, almost uniquely among centers of "higher education", and most properly, must not regard Islam as a religion. Instead they likely deem it a socio-political ideology, and place its study in the social sciences department, where it is dealt with in courses on tyranny and totalitarianism, alongside Naziism, Bolshevism, Maoism, and such. Or maybe in the school of medicine, in the department of psychiatry.

Something I'd like to see (perhaps a few of us Aussies, in particular any Catholics among us, may like to write to Cardinal Pell to suggest it): the Australian Catholic University awarding an Honorary Doctorate (Islamic Studies/ Studies in Religion/ Comparative Religion) to a certain Mr Robert Spencer from the USA.

Because it seems to me that 'The Truth About Muhammad' and 'Religion of Peace? Why Christianity is and Islam Isn't' not to mention 'The Complete Infidel's Guide to the Koran' and the latest historic/ textual/critical technical-type book he's planning to publish about Mohammed, really ought to add up to the equivalent of a PhD (and much more accurate, solidly-researched and **readable** than the general run of good many PhDs produced in the humanities, these days).

I say this as a person with a PhD, myself, from one of Australia's oldest and largest Universities.

Re: the splatter marks around the neck: SPLC's decoder ring must have blacked out Qur'an 47:4 ("strike at their necks").

Imagine the firestorm if we posted artwork even remotely like that, suggestive of the severed head of one of our detractors (we have better taste than that).

Heaven knows we'd be denounced by... the SPLC.

On a lighter note, I've never known Robert to wear beatnik horn-rimmed glasses as depicted above.

The greatest purpose of education is to teach people how to teach themselves.

Amen to that, Classic, amen.

*** 33:21 ***

And so we sit here, today, in a population not only unwilling but entirely unable to recognize the truth of our present situation.

When the Moslems finally take over, I wouldn't wanna be a retired schoolteacher living high on fat public sector union retirement benefits. Angry people are gonna be roaming the Moslem patrolled streets of their suburbs carrying rubber hoses, seeking out AFT/NEA brothers and sisters living in their neighborhoods.

Robert, SPLC's mischaracterization of you being "self-taught" is obviously meant as a smear, but in reality it exhibits for all to see how profoundly ignorant these people are.

Apparently the SPLC is of the opinion that only class-room instruction, or the equivalent, under the tutelage and guidance of a duly certified and bemedaled "expert" is capable of bestowing an education worthy of recognition. Not to put too put to fine a point on it, but no one ever "teaches" anything to anyone else. Ultimately all of us are self-taught in the sense that learning is a solitary act of volition. Whatever degrees and diplomas may be bestowed are incidental.

The technical term for self-taught is "autodidact," and historically self-education has been the norm. If you are one, then you in rather good company. A sampling of names widely recognized as being autodidacts to some degree, and whose shoes the SPLC would not be fit to lick, include:

Abigail Adams, Ansel Adams, Louisa May Alcott, Paul Allen, Hans Christian Anderson, Jany Austen, Alexander Graham Bell, David Ben-Gurion,William Blake, Ray Bradbury, Elizabeth Barrett Browning, Robert Browning, Robert Burns, James Cameron, Joseph Campbell, Agatha Christie, Arthur C. Clarke, Henry Clay, Samual Clemens, Joseph Conrad, Humphrey Davy, Charles Dickens, Walt Disney, Frederick Douglas, Thomas Edison, Albert Einstein, Michael Faraday, William Faulkner, F. Scott Fitzgerald, Henry Ford, Benjamin Franklin, Robert Frost, Buckminster Fuller, Bill Gates, Horace Greeley, Oliver Heaviside, Earnest Hemingway, Patrick Henry, Washington Irving, Steve Jobs, Andrew Johnson, Ray Kroc, Stanley Kubrick, Louis L'amour,Estee Lauder, Ralph Lauren, Richard Leakey, William Lear, Abraham Lincoln, Clare Boothe Luce, Guglielmo Marconi, Cyrus McCormick, William McKinley, Herman Melville, H.L. Menchen, James Monroe, Florence Nightingale, Edgar Allen Poe, Alexander Pope, John D. Rockeefeller, Eleanor Roosevelt, J.D. Salinger, Carl Sandburg, David Sarnoff, George Bernard Shaw, Herbert Spencer, Steven Spielberg, Zachary Taylor, Nikola Tesla, Leo Tolstoy, Harry Truman, Peter Ustinov, Martin Van Buren, George Washington, Thomas J. Watson, George Westinghouse, Walt Whitman, Steve Wozniak, Frank Lloyd Wright, Orville and Wilbur Write.

Pretty good company, I'd say.

"Not to put too fine a point on it..."

"Robert Spencer has been known to fraternize with European racists and neo-facists, though he says such contacts were merely incidental."

Faithful readers of this site know that this particular "Big Lie" originated with Joseph Goebbel imitator Charles Johnson, the paranoid at Little Green Footballs.

Funny that this list should appear within days of an Al-Qaeda "hit list" on the Shumukh Forum:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/06/16/feds-send-alert-after-al-qaeda-linked-site-posts-hit-list-us-targets/

Looks as though SPLC is trying to give them an assist.

Better to be brilliantly self taught, even overcoming the Newby falsehoods (double pun intended), than ever to be a deceived recruit by the lies and withholding of full truths, by the deceiving coniving mufti overlords of the evil forces, everytime!

Muslim Logic:

"How could Spencer be entirely self-taught"- brings us back the old canard that only Muslims can understand Islam.

But in the UK the Islamo-props are feeling the heat:

"Sharia bill is based on a false premise"

http://islamophobia-watch.squarespace.com/islamophobia-watch/2011/6/22/sharia-bill-is-based-on-a-false-premise.html

"Mehdi Hasan exposes sharia hysteria."- Not. Mehdi wants you to look away. Go back to sleep, infidel:

"It’s time to lay the sharia bogeyman to rest"

http://www.newstatesman.com/religion/2011/06/islamic-law-sharia-british

That'll be difficult, now that the cat's out of the bag.....


Well, their slander notwithstanding, the SPLC at least quotes Robert at length, hopefully giving those who read it with at least a hint of objectivity some very powerful food for thought.

Concerning that "self-taught" smear - what, they think Islam is rocket science or something? Gimme a break! I can't remember the last subject easier to learn about than Islam - ABC's perhaps. Islam is about as complex as a poem from Mother Goose.

These SPLC clowns should get out of our country and reside in Saudi Arabia. They're sick, and they bring down our country.

Frankly, I do not see the election of Barack Hussein Obama as a victory for African-Americans. BHO was raised by his white mother and grandparents, and his father, as an East African Muslim, descended from slave hunters rather than the people who came to America as slaves and fought a long, uphill battle against both plantation slavery and institutionized racism.

But, I agree that the Southern Poverty Law Center has outlived its usefulness, and its propensity to cry "racist" at everyone who does not hew to the Leftist line is repellent.

Robert, a good post, as usual. But I have quibble.

This modern-day Christian does indeed interpret the violent passages of the Bible. I believe that there are many occasions when I have pointed out to the moral equivalence people who visit your blog that the command to exterminate the Canaanites was a one-shot deal to establish Israel in Canaan, and to show graphically the consequences of covenant-breaking (the ban on the Canaanites was a more drastic version of the Mesopotamian exile that caught up with covenant-breaking Israel and Judah). True, the warlike, "kill 'em all" passages may not be normative instruction for the people of God since the coming of M'shiach (Jesus Christ); or even since the restoration of the Jews after the Babylonian captivity for that matter, but they do have something to teach us, and for Christians to dismiss these portions of the Octateuch is to ignore how seriously God takes human sin.

And I'll even say that modern Christians' unwillingness to come to grips with these passages is a deficiency--although I'll admit that there probably are some misguided souls out there who'd want to turn modern neighbors into Amorites and Jebusites, and I'll dis-associate myself from them now.

Further, a right use of the "kill 'em all" passages of the Octateuch and those warnings of judgment in Jeremiah and Ezekiel that, not too long ago, shocked someone named Damian who posted here, can be rightly used to underscore the great gulf between how Christianity views violence (I'll let Jewish posters speak for their own religion) and how Islam does. The Old Testament is a great book to teach how every time you point at someone else, three fingers are pointing right back at you; and this is a note I miss in reading the Qur'an and Hadith.

When I can get out from under a heavy translation load, I'll probably say something about the matter on my own blog.

Oh put my thick head on a plate Alarmed Pig Farmer - a motif in this thread. When I look at the first line of my earlier post, I think I had better go and teach myself to type.

To address your point, I think we are living among an intellectually disarmed population. The utter confusion in the Humanities curriculum in this country is largely to blame for it. But I think another thing also contributes to American passivity. Too many influential Americans seem to have forgotten that the basis of civilization is agricultural, not industrial. This is especially true among many of our Ivy League overlords.

All those brilliant ideas left to us from our classical past, everything about freedom and democracy, have their roots in agriculture. The leisure needed for art and science come from success in agriculture. The wise, mostly self-taught farmer had a lot to contribute to a society - notions of useful work, independence, proportion, and self-reliance. We would be better armed if we had more people with the characteristics of the farmer-patriot, and fewer people with the traits of the helpful liberal social-worker or with the habits of the needy clients of that social worker.

Where will the better characteristics come from? Having teachers who know how to teach people to be self-reliant would be a place to start. It wouldn't hurt if students learned to look at things the way a framer might, whether or not they ever did anything close to real farm work.

What kind of farmers were Muhammad and his friends? Not any kind. Could Muhammad's work, such as it was, ever be called useful? I think the independent farmer, someone like the character speaking in Hesiod's Works and Days, would see them for what they were - thieves and bums. Though Muhammad was not in the old Greek sense an aristoi, Hesiod would have recognized bad aristoi mores in him and would have called Muhammad's endeavors stasis, the excessive, acrimonious striving for gain that comes from an overweening attachment to prestige. Stasis would rip a society to shreds making it ungovernable. How well governed is any predominately Muslim society?

And is there a titled, doctrinaire, post-modern liberal lefty, who isn't, in a strange upside-down way, concerned with prestige? When one of them puts Mr. Spencer down for doing independent work, it comes as no surprise.


You don't speak ill when what you say is true.

"...I think we are living among an intellectually disarmed population. The utter confusion in the Humanities curriculum in this country is largely to blame for it."

Agreed. Quite a bit of the problematical curriculum was introduced by the aging Hippies from the sixties and seventies who couldn't get jobs for lack of salable skills, and who decided to formalize their life-time student status by wangling their way onto a faculty. The distortion of the curricula followed.

Universities are all suffering from budget shortfalls. They could help themselves enormously, and solve a big part of the problem you alluded to, by eliminating all the departments devoted to pseudo subjects that cater to the grievances of an ever expanding list of minorities, and which have sprung into existence only during past forty years. They provide students with neither employable skills, nor a means to become a contribution member of society, nor even a constructive world view. (What, exactly, is a student with a major in minority studies qualified to do, other than perhaps become a community organizer?)

...contributing member of society...

"vast interpretive tradition that has modified Koranic teachings over the centuries"

Al-Azhar University's endorsement of Reliance of the Traveller pretty much puts the centuries of interpretive tradition squarely in the camp of the jihad.

Islam is really a tight legal system that does not have the wiggle room that liberals would like you to think it has.

The best I can see from Mr. Spencer is that he does not doggedly translate or interpret the Koran literally. He does what any interpreter does, he takes the Koran plainly. In other words, is the Koran is "speaking" literally, he interprets the text literally. If it is speaking figuratively he interprets the text that way. Nothing wrong with that, in fact it is the way any religious text should be handled. As far as being self-taught, who cares? What matters is that he knows his stuff, not where did he get his PhD. Mr. Spencer does indeed "know his stuff".

One thing I forgot to mention in my last post, the SPLC publishes a journal for law enforcement and leads seminars all over the country for them as well. Amazingly, it usually only lists "right wing terrorists" and even forgets to mention what muslim terrorists are up to. But who does make the list? Chuck Norris. Walker, Texas Ranger. The publication is glossy, of high quality, but terribly biased. It is of very little use to law enforcement. I caution law enforcement leaders not to trust this organization. I mean, come on. Chuck Norris?

"When modern-day Jews and Christians read their Bibles, they simply don't interpret the passages cited as exhorting them to violent actions against unbelievers. This is due to the influence of centuries of interpretative traditions that have moved them away from literalism regarding these passages. But in Islam, there is no comparable interpretative tradition."
— From The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades), 2005

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Perhaps this is the case with Christianity. Perhaps the influence of centuries of interpretative traditions that have moved them away from literalism. There is no concept of "unbelievers" as either enemies of God or inherently evil in the Jewish Bible (the law of Moses, the prophets, etc.), as there is in the Christian bible and the Qur'an. There is no hellfire or 'lake of fire' (in the Jewish Bible) where God consigns "unbeliever" to eternal torment as there is in the Christian bible and the Qur'an.

"And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire." (Book of Revelation 20:15)

Jews historically have not applied "violent" passages which require severe punishments for evil, not because interpretative traditions have moved them away from literalism but because of the nature of the God of Israel. God said to Moses: "The LORD, the LORD God, compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, and abounding in lovingkindness and truth; who keeps lovingkindness for thousands, who forgives iniquity, transgression and sin...." etc.

Britsh historian Paul Johnson put it this way: "After (a son) was thirteen, the Deuteronomic Law of the Rebellious Son applied. In theory a defiant son could be taken before the elders, convicted and stoned to death; he could be scourged even on the first offence. The Talmud said no such case had ever occurred, but the shadow of the Law lay over the son. (A History of the Jews, page 295)


I have a membership card in the SPLC, which I joined as a very young man, 30 years ago. (The "member since" date on my renewal card is 1981). At the time, I was impressed by their stands against racism, anti-Semitism, and hate in general. Now I see they are flacking for hate groups, with the rationalization that these are merely "civil rights groups" seeking fair treatment for Muslims in America. They are liars. I am very disturbed by their lying attacks on Robert, Pam, and JW. I haven't made up my mind yet, but I'm leaning toward canceling my membership.

(What, exactly, is a student with a major in minority studies qualified to do, other than perhaps become a community organizer?)

He could sell his very expensive grievances to the business world as a...diversity consultant...as long as there are businessmen who are also fools.

But I hear that there really are such things as diversity consultants. I don't know if Adam Smith would have laughed or cried to know that.

Here is a taste from a web page of one such consulting firm. Note the strange language.

Quantum-Thinking
Quantum-thinking is the ability of the mind to function at a higher level of creativity and innovation. This level of thinking allows one to accurately envision the next generation products, services, and modes of operation. It involves a shift from linear thinking to higher-order holistic thinking. Quantum-thinking is achieved by the systematic development of six critical skills:

1. Personal Mastery—the ability to explore higher-order thinking (futuristic ideas) beyond one’s present reality.
2. Intuition—the ability to “spontaneously receive” higher-order concepts and ideas.
3. Mastery of Context—the ability to envision future paradigms with the least amount of data or information.
4. Context Integration—the ability to integrate information from different paradigms into one compatible higher-order paradigm.
5. Creative Synthesis—the ability to synthesize (transform) information into new knowledge.
6. Hyper-accelerated Information Processing—the ability to process (learn) data and information at hyper-accelerated speeds.

And from the mission statement:

To facilitate programs and processes that result in individual and organizational transformation necessary to create an inclusive, highperformance organization.

No sober Athenian like Thucydides or Xenophon would have written something so bad. When I see words like, Quantum Thinking, I long for escape velocity.

Heh. Rather interesting example of abuse of the buzzwords du jour. This was obviously written by someone, probably a relatively recent arrival to the world of consciousness, who hasn't quite yet grasped what the words mean.

When I was a student years ago, many of those who flunked out of the program moved next door into science education. Of course the reason they flunked was usually because they only barely perceived Plato's shadows in the cave, much less being able to grasp what was causing them, even though others had no such difficulty. (Speaking here about the relationship between physical processes and the mathematics used to describe them.) Many of them went on to develop the diversity programs that now infect NASA and the National Science Foundation, in coordination with the efforts of their like minded but similarly reality challenged social science brethren who constructed other parts of that vast edifice.

I don't see much respect given these days to the concept of making a distinction between form and substance. (Probably because of all the acid dropped during the 60s and 70s.) The focus is almost always on the former at the expense of the latter.

So what, Damian? You on the Left are oh so understanding of all kinds of "liberation" movements that engage in mass murder on a grand scale. Your problem isn't violence, but who carries it out.

You wrote: Well, let’s see; here’s Calvin’s considered judgement:

“This law [Deut. 13] might at first appear too severe. Why should anyone be punished for merely having spoken? But if anybody slanders a mortal man he is punished; shall we then permit a blasphemer of the living God to go unscathed?.......Martin Luther, whose own life was of course under great threat for his “heresy”, also supported the death penalty for blasphemy and sedition, and endorsed the resolution of the Diet of Speyer that all Anabaptists be put to death."

I think you've made my point.

Damiam: "As for Jews today using scriptures like those above to justify slaughtering Palestinians, that's a whole different post, but we can go into that too if you like......"

You really aren't worth a decent man's time. You are a low- life apologist for evil-doers.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Damian needs to get out more often, maybe go to an outdoor public concert. The fresh air would do him good, and the music would help heal his soul.

Thank you, sir/madame.

By the way, I have thoroughly enjoyed your posts here...

I swear to god, Eastview, I think I'm losing it - Damian sounds just like Horsey, Islamic Empire and Insect-boy.

What the F88k!!

By the way EV, I was just listening to Mozart k626, the Requiem. I must have listened 100 times in my 52 years.

Perhaps, someday, we will explain to the ex-mohammedans how this form of expression is the proper way to glorify death...

Dee

Ah yes, Mozart's Requiem. Good taste. It is one of his finest works.

Western music, even the most glorious of classical pieces, seems to fall on deaf ears when it comes to Muslims. It's sad. Virtually all of it is infinitely sweeter and more capable of touching the human heart than the caterwauling of muezzins.

Thank you deebartok. I've enjoyed your posts as well.

One of the most damning things about Islam is its lack of liturgical music. Also, the more devout the Muslim, the more he seems to hate music in general. I don't understand it. To be a mean crab about music is to be almost beyond hope - like Ebenezer Scrooge but far worse.

And just as you say, Mozart k626 the Requiem, is the proper way to glorify death. The beauty of Mozart's Requiem makes the thought of death more bearable. I haven't listened to it as many times as you have, but I would include Fauré's Requiem as another indispensable piece. I've listened to it dozens of times and the Pie Jesu in B Flat major can still bring tears to this man's eyes. I'm not ashamed of that.

Deebartok

wholly offtopic, but a charming anecdote that I heard from a friend who used to work as an usher at the Sydney Opera House (which has got to have one of the most sublimely beautiful locations in the world, even if its internal acoustics are, ahem, not entirely up to scratch).

She related the story of a gentleman who died in the Opera House Concert Hall.

He was terminally ill with cancer or something like that, and had been let out of his palliative care hospice, with nurse and some portable equipment in attendance, in order to attend a concert, he being a devoted music lover.

The piece? - Mozart's Requiem.

And at some point during the performance, nobody knew quite when, the music lover in question quietly passed away from earth to heaven, borne on a wave of Mozart's heavenly music.

Just because two things may share superficial similarities, does not make them identical or necessarily comparable. Famous for its idea that man is depraved (Inst.2.2.10 and 2.5.15), Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion was most concerned with a certain view of God, grace, and predestination. But his theological statements were never regarded in the same way that Muslims have taken the sayings of Muhammad in the hadith collections.

The path of the autodidact may not be the right one for you.

Damian ought to give it up.

None of the regulars here - whether Christian, Jewish, Hindu or historically-informed non-religious - is buying his nonsense.

No matter what he says, Islam has never produced groups of people who live like the Chabadniks, or like the Amish or the Franciscans or the Benedictines, causing NO harm to their neighbours, and frequently, much good. Or, for that matter, like the members of the Society of St Stephen (founded by one Jackie Pullinger - worth looking up).

And those groups of Jews, and of Christians, that I have mentioned, take their God and their scriptures very very seriously...and they live peaceful, loving, positive lives.

It should also be borne in mind that Islam did not produce an Abolitionist movement (indeed, right now, today, we have devout Muslims openly calling for the legalization of slavery - for, since MOhammed practised it, it is viewed as sunnah, eternally valid, a part of Sharia - and a recommencement of the slave trade); whereas Christianity, eventually (though the first thoroughly-theologically-based and scathing denunciation of slavery *as such*, of slavery as an institution, was preached by Gregory of Nyssa more than 1200 years ago) did.

There *is* something different going on in the Biblical texts, as opposed to the Islamic texts, for the adherents of those texts to be exhibiting such dramatically different behaviours from the behaviours of the zealous Muslims.

You are like a boy who needs every single thing spelled out - rather like certain Muslims do I would say. I'm sorry that my critique wasn't enough for you, but its brevity does match my esteem for your effort.


Classicus wrote, replying to Eastview:

(What, exactly, is a student with a major in minority studies qualified to do, other than perhaps become a community organizer?)

He could sell his very expensive grievances to the business world as a...diversity consultant...as long as there are businessmen who are also fools.
.............................

Actually, I am quite familiar with this phenomenon, Classicus—I find it often has more to do with "covering one's *ss" than foolishness per se.

Oh, certainly—I'm sure there are a few companies that relish this sort of politically correct idiocy—but for most, showing your business has had access to training sessions from a "diversity consultant"—or even had one on staff for larger firms—means you are much less likely to be sued, or to find oneself running afoul of bureaucratic regulations of one sort or another.

And if they can't find this sort of "work", they can always teach—either back at the institution where they picked this stuff up in the first place, or—increasingly—in the public schools.

These schools often have difficulty even teaching reading and basic math, but there is always room for teaching skewed history and grievance...

On another topic, I would like to thank you, Eastview, Deebartok, and Dumbledore's Army for elevating the general tone of discourse here.

Damian: I'm not sure how this is relevant to the topic, but as a Christian, yes. I personally believe GOD himself (and ONLY Him) has the right to punish us for our sins, those of us who do not repent. (I do not claim to be better, only a sinner who has been given the gift of life). I believe the bible is very clear in this in the new testament that it is God's job to judge, not man.

I suppose you think this is some sort of "gotcha" of hypocracy. the problem is, your somehow conflating a belief in a future judgement by GOD is somehow equivalent to a belief in judgement on non-believers (as in Koranic/Hadith teachings). If so, you are sadly mistaken (or purposefully being dishonest).

By the way, you still owe me an apology for calling me an "idiot" and an explanation how my answers to your post was "red herrings". Answers to my questions that you ignored would be good too.

It's at this topic: ("Simply do a search for Foolster41" it's the post that starts "sir,")
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2011/06/saudi-arabia-spencers-the-truth-about-muhammad-an-attempt-to-discredit-the-prophet-and-tarnish-his-i.html

Actually, I am quite familiar with this phenomenon, Classicus—I find it often has more to do with "covering one's *ss" than foolishness per se.

I defer to you gravenimage.

I was going to post another example of vague, imprecise language showing the influence of postmodernism on ordinary communication; this time a page of objectives included in a letter from one of the administrators of my young nephew's grade school written to all the parents with children attending there. Meant to demonstrate the school's serious purpose, and its compliance with the No Child Left Behind Act, the letter, with its list, amounts to nothing more than an unfocused collection of gaffs and solecisms. The writer is a graduate of Yale, making the whole thing funny and disconcerting at the same time. But to post it would belabor the point and would continue the drift of this thread. What began as a discussion about the Southern Poverty Law Center questioning Mr. Spencer's credentials, became a rant against academia. JW readers have read enough of that already.


Finally, your closing comments are too kind. I don't think the tone of my posts here is very much elevated. I could reconsider quite a number of them. One thing that I have noticed in the eight or nine months I've been reading JW, is how kind you and dumbledoresarmy have been to new posters. The two of you are quick to welcome new people and you often lend sympathy to those who seem troubled. A certain tone may be good, but kindness is even better. When Mr. Spencer's detractors say that JW is a hate site, they are wrong.

As ever, I'll watch for your new postings.

classicus



Thank you, classicus.

We try.

I see this forum as Mr Spencer's Virtual Hedge School for the Resistance Against Jihad and Sharia; and as being also, in some ways, like an eighteenth-century coffee shop, the sort where heated discussions of philosophy and politics took place. With the caveat that 'the walls have ears'; and not all present - or lurking and listening, from behind the hedge, or in the darker corners, are friendly or to be trusted. Despite that, and despite the occasional spats -indeed, on one or two occasions, ding-dong rows - between regulars, and the rough-and-tumble of no-holds-barred argument (this place has a strongly 'masculine' feel about it, though not one unfriendly to women) I think that a real community of minds has developed here over the years; I **enjoy** the company and insights of many of the regulars, male and female, from all around the world, and I want others to stick around and learn and make friends and be inspired.

I think it is important to offer a welcome to those who have screwed up their courage to take a nom de plume and step out onto the comments floor...and who appear, judging from their posts, to be acting in good faith rather than 'trolling' in one way or another.

Perhaps the most important thing we all need to remember is to think and count to ten before we post. Too many 'flame wars' and too much bad language will put off people who lob in here for the first time and are making up their minds whether to hang around or to back out and click, instead, the next link that came up when they googled this or that.

The thing that prompted *me* to step out onto the floor and join the forum - after lurking for about six months - was not a news story: it was something that happened in the 'community', to wit, the death of a regular contributor from the UK, one Dominic Tabrar-Synge, 'necessitasnonhabetlegem'. (I only *wish* you could have met him, classicus. You would have got on like a house on fire, both of you having a good grounding in and love of the classics).

There was a whole thread in which, when the news of Dominic's tragic, early and sudden death in a traffic accident broke, commenters reacted with condolences to his family and statements about what his writing had meant to them. I had always enjoyed his postings, which were intelligent and passionate (he was, as Dorothy L Sayers said of Dante, 'a passionate intellect'), well-written and erudite and unfailingly courteous, and I felt I *had* to say something, too.

And the thing was, the tone of the comments - even from the usually more abrasive and angry folks - was deeply civilised. It was that thread in particular which led me to conclude: I am happy to join this forum, I *like* these people.

I saw your recent post on this thread on 11 July, a few minutes before I was leaving for a trip to Colorado. I've returned today after having driven through southern Wyoming, northeast Utah, southern Idaho, and eastern Oregon and Washington - nothing nearly so difficult as your own Outback, but we have some dry and rugged country. I've spent the last several days away from the computer, the telephone, and the television. I even left my cell phone behind. More important than that, I've had a break from reading about the depredations of Islam.

I remember when you re-posted an entry by Dominic Tabar-Synge. I really would have liked to have read his posts when he was alive. He seems to have a been a wit - as his screen name was a clever Latin joke.

Yes, I believe I could count to ten more before writing a post, especially when I see articles about outrageous Muslim behavior on Jihad Watch or even more disgusting behavior as I did today, when I checked Religion of Peace to find a videotaped execution by the Taliban of a dozen Pakistani policemen. Infuriating really. There is no end to the cruelty of Islamic law.

I do tend to put my profane comments in Latin since the Romans had so many words for crude things. I hope to make Latin readers laugh a little.

But the ancients of Western Classical world left us far more than funny little words for naughty things.

Even when they were depraved and debauched, power mad, and blood thirsty, those ancinets left us a tradition of reflection and self-criticism that no other culture has matched. The Greeks were unique in the ancient Mediterranean. Judaism and Christianity of course, changed the Classical world for ever and that is all the better for us.

I see that you know Dorothy Sayers. There was far more to her than people think and she ought to be read more. It doesn't matter that her work is from the last century, her insights and humanism are still important.

It hadn't occurred to me that Jihad Watch was particularly masculine, but then, as a man, I suppose I'm a bit thick- skinned. One thing for certain is that you and gravenimage, as well a few others, are very civilized; and taken with the wonderful articles by Mr. Spencer, Ms. Seibold, Raymond Ibrahim, the still missed Hugh Fitzgerald and Roland Shirk, Jihad Watch is an interesting site.

Thank you for your posts dumbledoresarmy, I read your words as often as I can. Stay well.

classicus



Well well well. I see that I've made a typographical error. I'll blame it on travel. [T]hose ancinets, should be, those ancients.

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