The judiciary appears to realize that rewarding such behavior through inaction or half-measures will invite more of it.
This incident always had the appearance of a rampage in need of an excuse. Constructing new churches and repairing old ones is forbidden under Islamic law, and connecting the rumored desecration with the construction of a church creates the implication that the act was a "Christian" ritual. All the better to incite the easily enraged to take out as many churches as they could.
An update on this story. "Ethiopia jails hundreds in Muslim attacks on Christians over Koran rumour," from Reuters, July 2 (thanks to Bernard):
An Ethiopian court has sentenced 558 people to jail terms ranging from six months to 25 years for attacks on Christians that displaced thousands and led 69 churches to be burned to the ground. More than 4,000 members of local Protestant denominations were forced to flee near the town of Asendabo, some 300 kilometres (186 miles) west of the capital, in March during a rare bout of religious violence.
Mobs of Muslim youths carried out week-long attacks on Protestants after rumours that desecrated pages from the Koran had been found at a church construction site. Authorities reported a single death from the attacks.
“They were punished for their involvement in instigating and participating in religious disturbances in western Ethiopia,” government spokesman Shimelis Kemal said of the court cases. Forty-four people were acquitted.
Regional officials told Reuters almost all the displaced people have returned to their homes, some of which were repaired with support from local Muslims. Authorities, keen to avoid further fall-out between the two groups, have held several meetings in the area and claim normalcy has returned.
In March, Prime Minister Meles Zenawi blamed a little-known local Muslim group of preaching intolerance in the region, and warned of growing religious tensions in the Christian-dominated country. “We knew that they were peddling this ideology of intolerance, but it was not possible for us to stop them administratively because they are within their rights,” he said.
The Horn of Africa nation is 60 percent Christian, a majority being followers of the Ethiopian Orthodox Church, and 30 percent Muslim. March’s attacks came as a major surprise in a country where most take pride in centuries-old coexistence and intermarriage.
"March’s attacks came as a major surprise in a country where most take pride in centuries-old coexistence and intermarriage."
They have broken the magical barrier where they feel that their numbers are sufficient for all out aggression to be viable. Give them another few years of rampant overbreeding and unopposed immigration from neighbouring Sudan and Somalia and it'll start getting as bad as Nigeria
fcking muslims, got nothing better to do with this shitty lives than to harass and terrorize non-muslims.
while I've known one or two individual muslims who were wonderful people, when they're in groups, they're nothing but a bunch of rabid animals.
the problem of course isn't so much the people, but their ideology, Islam, get rid of that and they'll return to being normal humans, till then, they're our enemy.
quite right, with 1/3 of Ethiopians being muslim, and 2/3 christian, I expect to see another Lebanon, Somalia or Sudan happening. Eventually muslims will become more powerful and start massacring the christians.
The fault lies with Christianity, which like Hinduism shows tolerance to the intolerant and that is a suicidal pact.
Just one of many reasons I left Christianity-but if Christians are to survive, they better adopt a no-tolerance and no-mercy approach to muslims, while they still have a hold on power.
Because muslims will definitely not show tolerance to them, once they become their overlords as we all know. Otherwise it is the end for them, just as it has been for Christianity in the mideast.
It is also the end for us in the West if we don't watch and learn from other civilizations that were invaded by Islam.
"Constructing new churches and repairing old ones is forbidden under Islamic law"
Of course there is no law that prevents the Muslims from destroying the existing churches and thereby putting the no new churches and repairing old ones law into place.
Expect the mainstream media to be full of this...............NOT!
But if we act like them, what difference would there be between Muslims and us? Wouldn't we unknowingly become like the Muslims?
I think it is better to ridicule and discredit Izlam's doctrines. Or encourage the Muslim women to leave Islam. If the women start to apostatize, Islam will crumble from within.
If worse comes to worse, we should build a wall around the entire Dar-al-Islam and let them stew in their own toxic juices until they reform themselves.
What would be other strategies to eliminate Izlam from the face of the earth, without having to resort to physically eliminating Muzlims for that goes against our values?
"After reaching 20% expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings and church and synagogue burning: Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%"
The World Fact Book (2007))
http://crossmuslims.blogspot.com/2010/06/islams-progression-through-societies.html
Isn't Eithopia protected by the Muslims since they gave refuge to early Muslims 1400 or so years ago?
The Crusades were a reaction to Muslim aggression. But after the Crusades, did Christianity take on Islamic characteristics? Afrer Hitler, did the Allies find they had become Nazis? I think in an emergency we have to put our pride aside and think of our children. I am sure God will forgive us for "intolerance", even brutality, if it is a temporary measure to save our children from the same.
But if we act like them, what difference would there be between Muslims and us? Wouldn't we unknowingly become like the Muslims?
I agree with you entirely, KaffirPagan.
Besides,speaking as the local Christian fanatic (Calvinist, to show the theologicalflag), our movement has picked up a few new folks because God decided to bless our being respectful and loving in our witness towards our formerly non-Christian neighbors.
For Fitna: Christian love, mercy, humility,self-control,refraining from private vengeance, and seeking peace DO NOT constitute a suicide pact. There is a wide consensus among professional theologians and bible-literate laity that on certain occasions, the state has the right to execute those who commit serious crimes (murder is the big one) and to protect the people by waging war on certain occasions. Even those of us bothered by historical incidents such as Charlemagne's conversion of the pagan Saxons at sword-point or Olav Trygvesson's giving the pagan Norwegians the choice of baptism or death may still accept the Augustinian just war doctrine.
Now, maybe our trying to cultivate the fruit of the Holy Spirit (see Galatians 5) can be taken as weakness by some. It's also true that many of our churches have been hijacked by woolly-headed people who would make meekness and gentleness into a suicide pact (politically, they're the same people who'd do the same with the Bill of Rights--I write as an American). But we will engage in self-defense if we must.
KaffirPagan, muslims are in a perpetual state of war against all of us non-muslims and have been since this death cult was invented 1400 years ago. And by war I mean the real thing, they are ready to slaughter every last one of us until they achieve their goal of global conquest.
The only way to stop them is to fight back/wage a war in return until they are utterly defeated and their death cult is eliminated. Anything short of that objective will result in our destruction and victory for them.
History has proven over and over again, muslims only began to lose against infidels when they fought back and were as ruthless and as bloodthirsty as muslims are.
If a serial killer broke into your house and tried to murder you and your family and the only way to stop him was to kill him, would you refuse to do so because you think it'd make you as bad as he is? Would you rather have you and your family wind up dead because you didn't want to be a murderer and kill someone who really deserved it?
To fight against evil is valid self-defense, it is the same for nations defending themselves from dangerous ideologies. So because we had to kill millions of Nazis in WW2, did that make us Nazis/Fascists? Obviously not.
As as atheist and former Christian, I'd encourage Christians everywhere to gear up for war and find whatever justifications you need in the Bible to do so, because I know they are there.
I don't think Christ dying on the cross was an example he wanted all Christians to follow-it's suicidal. He paid the price so you don't have to. Muslims would like nothing more than for all of us to kneel before them either as slaves or to make it easier for them to cut our heads off. Is that what you want, to surrender to your enemies without a fight?
Islam, being an evil death cult which has never changed, does make for a good litmus test. Any ideology that refuses to defeat Islam is weak (and Christianity is today), any that does destroy it, is strong.
There was a time Christians used to be warriors and thankfully they protected Europe from Islamization in the past. Now the borders have been breached, the enemy is within the gates and it's time for people to expel it once more.
I'm not advising anyone to go out and shoot people, I'm saying that we need to organize and oppose every advance of Islam and work to get rid of it from society. Now if muslims try to attack us using force/violence to shut us up or prevent us from safeguarding our homeland, well we have a legitimate right to self-defense.
Believe me, muslims will take things to that extreme, they're doing it already-just ask the EDL who have had numerous street battles with muslims. As I said this is a real war between 21st century Civilization and 7th century theocratic Barbarism. Whoever wins this conflict will own the future of this planet.
It may sound a little absurd or dramatic but I truly believe it. The only thing stopping Islam from global conquest is the West, if it is conquered, so too will the rest of the world be.
I personally believe we will win in the end. Nazism and Communism were more powerful and we defeated them in the West. However with Islam, it's just a question of how long it will take till people wake up and fight back and how much bloodshed it might require to regain our freedom. The sooner we start, the better.
Islam is a parasitic plague on the rest of the free world.
We *do not* have to become as vicious as Muslims to take a strong stand against the depredations of Islam.
The allies behaviour during WWII is a good example. Not everybody lived up to the high standards set, but most did—and the allies disciplined the ones who did not.
We did not have to become as savage as the Nazis or Tojo's Japanese in order to effectively stand against Fascism.
Nor do we have to become as savage as the adherents of Islam—with the only alternative rolling over as dhimmi victims. This is a false dichotomy, and one we need not follow.
Kepha, well articulated. I find that Christians are largely constrained by their desire to be moral and adhere to codes which they think come from a god. Just like Political Correctness, it acts as a straight-jacket and prevents them from taking action such as legitimate self-defense.
Sometimes Christians console themselves with delusional thinking such as "Christians being killed/persecuted by muslims is all a part of God's plan. He'll rescue us or reward us in heaven." Such rationalization turns Christians into victims and makes it easier for them to be slaughtered by muslims, as we see today in the Islamic world.
As an atheist, since I am convinced there is no god or an after-life (because there is no evidence for these things), I know this is the only life I'll ever have and it is precious to me. If there is an individual or group which threatens my existence, then I cannot depend on anyone (like a god) but myself and those who agree with me to eliminate this threat.
I know how Christians think, I used to be one, as aforementioned. I used to pray for a lot of things and when they were never answered and when I saw some glaring problems/inconsistencies/contradictions and absurdities with Christianity, I realized it was just iron age superstitious nonsense and I left.
I'm not saying that to offend anyone but to simply point out why as an atheist I see this problem (islam) and how to fix it, a bit more clearly than many Christians who place their faith in an invisible deity, do. God never appears or speaks to us and does nothing when his followers (or innocents) are massacred and little girls are kidnapped, raped and tortured to death by psychopaths.
If a loving god existed, he'd never allow such terrible crimes to occur, otherwise he is not loving or is not real. What kind of "divine plan" sees it necessary for women and children to be raped and tortured? This question cannot be easily dismissed or ignored.
You can believe in anything you want, but if at the end of the day your beliefs stop you from defending yourself or destroying an enemy bent on your death and destruction, then he will win and you will lose. We see evidence of that on a daily basis.
As an atheist, I don't care what people believe, so long as they don't try to force it on me, my family or force our nation to respect or adopt their theocratic laws. This is exactly what Islam is doing today (and always has been), therefore it is my enemy and I will do whatever I can to see it is defeated.
We've just given £38 million to Ethiopia to buy guns er food because they are all starving again apparently and heading for refugee camps where they can receive aid from their enemy, the West.
To Bernard:
I check Reuters Africa each day and I didn't see this story. Where on the Reuters site would one normally be alerted to a story like this? Thanks for the notifiction.
The 60 % of Ethiopians who are Christians - and many of them are fervently Evangelical - are NOT our enemies and I doubt *they* see their fellow Christians in the West, as enemies.
It's their large and increasingly aggressive Muslim minority (but which the non-Muslim Ethiopians still outnumber ) who are our enemy..and *their* enemy, their enemy within, just as the expanding Mohammedan colonies within the West are *our* enemy within.
Anything that helps non-Muslim Ethiopians to thrive and survive and raise healthy kids, thus enabling them to go on running a NON-MUSLIM state with NON-MUSLIM laws - where, as we see from this article, Muslims who have gone on a rampage can be scooped up and arrested and tried and locked up in prison - is a good idea.
Ethiopia, like Israel, is an island in a Muslim sea. Like Israel, it has a large and dangerous Muslim Fifth Column. And they have Sudan and Egypt and Somalia threatening them - Egypt thinks that Egypt owns *all* the water of the Nile, even the water of the Blue Nile that rises in the heart of Ethiopia, and Muslim Egypt presumes arrogantly to dictate to Ethiopia how that water may be used.
I don't begrudge aid to the non-Muslims of Ethiopia.
It's from a Reuters blog, you can search for Muslim then click on the Blogs tab.
http://www.reuters.com/search/blog?blob=muslim
Just a thought, KaffirPagan, regarding your question (rhetorical perhaps) "But if we act like them, what difference would there be between Muslims and us? Wouldn't we unknowingly become like the Muslims?"
That is a dangerous line of thinking. It is functionally equivalent to the other oft quoted question "How are we any better than they are if we do what they do?
That is a trap that can lead to disaster if you are dealing with people like Saul Alinsky's crowd or the radical Muslim crowd.
Alinsky, in his analysis of how to bring down Western democracies, recognized the weakness of thinking along the lines of your question when he wrote his book Rules for Radicals. In that book he prescribed rules that pretty much removed any morality, as we understand the term, from his side. He then codified rules of engagement for dealing with an enemy that has moral scruples (i.e. us):
The fourth rule is: Make the enemy live up to their own book of rules. You can kill them with this, for they can no more obey their own rules than the Christian church can live up to Christianity.
Your question is an offshoot of this rule. The concept of 'being better than the enemy' or 'not becoming the enemy' has been a leftist trick for decades. It appears in Hollywood movies and television movies quite often. It is used to condition us to think that way so that it becomes harder for us to defend ourselves.
This approach pretty much castrated the US military during the Vietnam war. It has had similar success in Iraq and Afghanistan. Implementing a military strategy based on the proposition that you must be 'better than the enemy' or 'not become the enemy' puts soldier's lives at risk. As Alinsky said, "You can kill them with this."
It worked for Vietnam. The US couldn't win that war because the liberal left had enough clout to force the U.S. military to engage under rules that virtually ensured defeat.
It is not coincidental that South Vietnam fell to communist North Vietnam while communists and near communists in the U.S. were influencing the way the war was fought.
In answer to your question itself, I would say that in World War 2, the British and Americans executed horrific firebombings against Germany, they participated in the only nuking of cities in history in short, they did some pretty disgusting things that their opponents also did or would have done if they would have had the technology.
The British and Americans did not become Nazis or Japanese fascists.
As it turned out, they did show that they were better than the enemy. In fact they showed they were the best people in human history because of their post-war actions.
Despite the atrocities and devastation caused by the Nazis and the Japanese fascists, America and Britain helped redeem the German people and the Japanese people.
There is no other act in history that better exemplifies the Christian concept of 'turning the other cheek' than what the victors did for the losers after WW2 was over.
Now France capitulated to Germany in 30 days. It too didn't become like the enemy in terms of violence but I think it became something worse. It became a collaborator in the most atrocious act in human history: the attempted genocide of the European Jews.
Not all French participated in this directly but once France became passive, they empowered the Nazis to round up the French Jews and deport them to the Concentration Camps.
So, it is the motivations behind violence that will answer your question KaffirPagan. If you adopt the enemy's motivations for doing harm then yes you are no better than the enemy and yes, you are fated to become like them.
It is not mimicking the violent actions of the radical Muslims that emperils your soul. It is mimicking their hate, intolerance, racism, Ignorance etc. that will entrap you.
Obviously, from what you say in your post that can't happen so you don't have any worries.
Well said.
We don't have to become vicious to defeat them. No-one here, I am sure, is thinking of beheading anyone or raping their daughters or murdering those who surrender or any of the savage things that are on THEIR books. But self-defence is not always pretty, and we can be decent to the defeated.
If we don't fight back pretty toughly, then what message are we giving our kids?
Thanx PJG. I will leave you with this thought.
You might not like it but it is the best I can come up with as an overall strategy for dealing with Islam.
A great American philosopher by the name of Eric Hoffer once noted the following truth:
"You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you."
In today's troubled times it might be more appropriate to rephrase it as:
You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to instill terror in you.
Regardless of the change in phrasing, Hoffer's message is intact: You have the advantage over the enemy once you know what he fears most. That is what you will use as your central strategy to victory. As long as you can make him fear you more than you fear him you are going to win (all things being equal.)
The problem right now is Islam doesn't fear us. That is why the Islamists are so vocal at the moment. Everything the West has done over the last 30 or so years has convinced the Islamists that we are weak and there will never be a better time for them to conquer us.
The one important thing to remember in this scenario is the 9/11 attacks as well as the 17,000 or so other terrorist attacks tell us exactly what the terrorists fear most. All they learned in return is what pisses-off the West the most.
Theoretically, the advantage is now ours; but the interference offered by the liberal left elements in the West may countervail that advantage unless we are careful.
We have one other advantage but I think it would take a really good psychologist to work out how to use it.
We know that dying for Allah is what the jihadist wants. So we have to find an action that prevents him from getting his wish.
Possibly kidnapping him in the night (terror) and putting him in Jail permanently might work. There will be no hardship, no torture or anything that could ever be used as showing he suffered for Allah.
The point of this is to turn the captive's life into something completely insignificant as far as his religion is concerned.
He will have no way of gaining Paradise ever! If we have to, we will even 'kill him with kindness' so that he will look like a collaborator to Allah. In short, our action will damn him because his god is a pr**k who hasn't given him an out to qualify for paradise in such a case.
I think playing on that silly Islamic superstition about Paradise might prove traumatic to would-be jihadi terrorists.
I kinda like the idea of terrorizing someone by using kindness. It sounds like something from the mind of Monty Python.
Anyway, nice talking to ya PJG. Take care.