Gorin: Dutch website engages in "heretical" questioning of Srebrenica "genocide"

It is worth noting that a guilty verdict for Geert Wilders would likely have had an eventual chilling effect on the ability to produce content such as this in the Netherlands as well. It might result in hurt feelings, after all. "Commemorate Srebrenica with these Rare and Important Videos," by Julia Gorin at Republican Riot, July 14:

As the world bows its collective head this week in shame to mark the 16th anniversary of not rescuing Muslim soldiers from the Serbs they were slaughtering, the Netherlands’ largest internet news portal, NRC, was audacious enough to challenge the official version of the sacred, unquestionable, meticulously constructed lie known as the “Srebrenica Genocide,” heralding a significant change in attitude toward the nature of the incident. As Stefan Karganovic of the Srebrenica Historical Project put it, “The expression of such heretical views would have been unthinkable in Holland [or anywhere else] a short time ago.[...]
The preceding lays the foundation for much of what is in the 2010 film “Srebrenica: A Town Betrayed,” which follows interviews and revelations by Bosnian-Muslim investigative journalist Mirsad Fazlic, who doesn’t appreciate the fictitious, black-and-white version of the Bosnian war that is perpetuated by the international community and by Bosnian officialdom, which still honors wartime president Alija Izetbegovic as a national hero when Fazlic and others know he was the opposite. The film really begins only at the four-minute mark, and its main shortcoming is the ubiquitous, stubborn marriage to the notion that the number “7-8,000 killed” is anything other than a concoction that the world has been working backwards for 16 years to make seem real.
Among numerous of the film’s jaw-dropping revelations — including the fact that the humanitarian convoys which the Serbs were allowing to pass to Srebrenica were being intercepted by Bosnian “hero” Naser Oric and sold on the black market (and including Srebrenica police chief Hakija Mehovic describing the meeting at which the Bosnian leadership floated a proposal by Bill Clinton that 5,000 Srebrenica residents be sacrificed) — are the following:
1. “Mladic had four tanks and 400 men. In reserve he also had 1600 armed locals. But Mladic didn’t trust them since they lacked discipline and would use every opportunity to revenge [Srebrenica warlord] Oric’s attacks on the villages. The Serbs were outgunned by NATO’s fighter aircraft, 450 Dutch peacekeepers and Oric’s 5,500 soldiers.” (The first fact is important as a contradistinction to the Mladic that has been presented to the public, and there is more in the film in that regard. The latter factoids are important to illustrate that Srebrenica was set up for the Serbs to overpower, with the Muslim side “winning by losing,” as Nebojsa Malic calls it.)
2. In reference to the 50 Serbian villages that were being attacked by the Muslims of Srebrenica: “Especially disturbing was a religious dimension to the killings. Men were castrated in an anti-Christian gesture of circumcision. Pregnant women were disemboweled with cuts in the form of a cross. Some people were crucified, nails driven through their hands.”
3. “In April 1993 military chiefs from both sides — General Sefer Halilovic and General Ratko Mladic — signed a UN plan for Srebrenica and the other cities to become demilitarized zones. The Muslims promised on their side to stop the aggression against the Serbs around the enclaves and against the 15,000 Serbs still living in the capital Sarajevo.” (The Muslim side naturally didn’t hold to their end of the bargain, but what makes the excerpt exceptional is the word “aggression” for once attributed to the correct side of the Bosnian war.)
4. “Islam will win, since Bosnia is an Islamic country.” (Graffiti on the walls of a destroyed building in Kravica, where on January 7, 1993 — Orthodox Christmas — Muslims destroyed the town, killing 49 men, women, and children.) [...]

... If one can’t spare an hour to watch “A Town Betrayed,” below is a seven-minute primer on the subject matter: [...]

Next is a short and shocking video clip titled “Hiding Genocide; Before the Srebrenica Massacre: Jihad In the Balkans”

More videos:


There is much more at Gorin's site.

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I drank the Kool-aid supplied by the NYT and the rest of the Western media back in the 1990s, which told us that the Muslims of the Balkans were really syncretically-oriented "moderates" being persecuted by evil Serbs. I have since learned what a pack of one-sided lies this was, and have been apologizing to the Serbs ever since.

One must put be bosnian conflict into historical context of the cold war. The USA, only a few year earlier, found an ally in the mujahedin, willing to fight its war against communism with no risk to its own fighting men and women. The only thing that had to be sacrificed was the truth, and that usually is the first victim of armed conflict.

My guess is, the US has tired of its ally who can not be trusted and the truth will be served to us piecemeal from various sources with no comments from the US to maintain denialbility and at the same time slowly rewrite history somewhat closer to the truth.

I really feel the pain the the west inflicted on the Serbs. It's like we didn't learn anything from the fourth crusade which probably played a significant part in solidifying muslim rule over the Balkans. Is the western culture really worth saving when it repeats stupidities like this?

I am terrified to know this. Why no human rights group taking this matter to international court of war crimes and try Bill Clinton for his involvement in Bosnian war crimes.

Hi Marisol what happened to Mr. Robert since he is incommunicado for the last 24 hours.

It's unfortunate that JihadWatch associates itself with these Srebrenica Massacre deniers, as bizarre a breed as Holocaust deniers. Reading the linked document, I see now that there is an admission that some Bosniaks may have, er, passed away at the time, but this was the fault of, let's see, maybe one or two Serbs whose families had just been massacred and, oh yeah, there was this Croatian mercenary, and besides, oh yes, now this should get you, there were THE FRENCH! (Nobody likes those damned snail-eaters.) Egged on by the bloodthirsty Serb-hater Bill Clinton and his lackey Richard Holbrooke!

This is crap. Unadulterated crap.

Julia, Love:

You are a Zionist heroine, a courageous truth-teller. You are pride of the Jewish race. And the lowly neoliberals and neocons are disgrace to the Jewish race.

Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.

Karl Pov:

You have been trolling here for the Muslims and against the Serbs for years, so it is useless to argue with you seriously. Still, how do you explain the Feb. 16, 1994 story by Washington Post's John Pomfret on his interview with the Bosnian Muslim General Naser Oric, the commander of the Bosnian 28th Army division in Srebrenica. Oric openly bragging to him about the mass-murders of Serb civilians all around Srebrenica? AND BACKING HIS WORDS WITH VIDEOS HE SHOT OF PILES OF DEAD BODIES OF HIS VICTIMS! IT WAS MORE THAN A YEAR BEFORE THE "MASSACRE" OF MUSLIMS BY SERBS THERE! DAMNED BY HIS OWN VIDEOS! Google: "Weapons, cash and chaos lend clout to Srebrenica tough guy". For some reason, I could not download it, even I read it long ago. Our elites' cover-up might be at work. See if you have a better luck. Oric's division AND so-called "Bosnian Muslim civilians", that is all males 15 to 60, all armed up to their teeth, just as Oric's regular troops. All volunteered, or were "volunteered". Even the politically corrupt ICTY indited Oric for mass-murders and torture-murders of captive Serb civilians, but later "acqitted" him under the political prressure from it NATO masters. Total corruption of justice, worse than in Stalin's Soviet Union. And how about this: yearshttp://www.serbianna.com/columns/savich/051.shtml

Well? Lie to us some more.

Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.

Karl Pov:

Troll these:

1) "Dental torture, pulling teeth with rusty pliers, crushing legs and arms, beating victims to death with steel rods, clubs and rifle butts". This is how even the prostitute ICTY described the treatment of captive Serbs by Srebrenica Muslims in its indictment of Oric. Who committed those atrocities? The Boslian soldiers of Oric's 28th division. And also those "Muslim men and boys" whom the disgraceful Western elites now call "victims of the Srebrenica massacre". That is, the heavily armed Muslim males, ages 15 through 60 who relentlessly raided and destroyed ALL Serb villages around Srebrenica. Long before they became "victims of the massacre". But then, they did not call themselves "civilians". No, they proudly called themselves "the mujaheddin", and eagerly bragged about the bloody butchery of Serbs they committed, to the Western media. As Oric did, PROVIDING LITERALLY PILES OF VHS VIDEOCASSETTES HE SHOT, SHOWING BURNED SERB VILLAGES AND GRUESOMELY MUTILATED DEAD VILLAGERS. It is because of this ample testimony and evidence from Oric himself that ICTY felt they have no choice but to indict him. ICTY then CONVICTED him and sentenced him to the time served: TWO YEARS ! ! ! ! Then RELEASED HIM ! Even that invited Muslim anger. The NATO CRIMINALS gave an order, and Oric WAS THEN TOTALLY AQCUITTED ! ! ! ! Total political corruption of international justice by the cowardly Western democracies obsessed with pleasing the Muslims.
OK, Pov, troll us Oric.

Around the time my New Country, the United States of America became a new independent nation, with a proud promise of "Libery And Justice For All", in my Old Country Russia who had never even pretended to be "A Land of Liberty", the great Russian poet Mikhailo Romanovich Derzhavin wrote the following:

Unjust Trial Is More Evil Than Brigandage.
The Judges Are Enemies Where The Law Is Asleep.
A Citizen's Neck Is Streached Before Them
Without Defences.

Could he have imagined that the United States of America will be forcing this kind of evil injustice on the world at the end of the 20th century and in the 21st century?!

2) Aside from what those Muslim thugs did, how is it that there was such an enormous Muslim armed horde in Srebrenica? The city was officially a "UN-designated safe haven" which was supposed to be DEMILITARISED, and the only armed persons allowed there were supposed to be UN "peacekeepers". So how is it that AN ENTIRE 28th DIVISION (A DIVISION ! ! ) of the regular Bosnian army was there?! Plus, a huge horde of heavily armed "mujaheddin"?! All engaged in unspeakable butchery of Serb civilians, from DAY ONE of the Bosnian war?!
The real scandal was not that the Dutch UN/NATO peacekeepers did not join the Muslim hordes in fighting the Serbs. The real scandal was that they, and their UN and NATO bosses allowed such a huge, heavily armed Bosnian Muslim military force to be present in the Srebrenica "safe haven". And in all other "safe havens": Gorazde, Zepa and Bihac.

OK, Karl Pov, troll some more to us on those indisputable facts.

Ruslan Tokhchukov, EnragedSince1999.

I've not lied to you at all, Ruslan. I don't know that much about Oric, who seems to have trouble with his own people at the moment. Have no desire to defend him, nor do I know enough to condemn him. But if I were convinced of everything you say about him I wouldn't use one Bosniak's conduct as an excuse for the Srebrenica Massacre.

Ruslan, I've made this point before, but I'll make it again: The Serbs had most of the heavy artillery. They had access to the materiel of the armed forces of Yugoslavia. You say that some weapons were smuggled in by those well-known allies, Iran and the United States. Not likely that this could have made much difference, if true.

I don't care to defend the Bosniaks. Some of them may have behaved disgracefully, being members of the same damned human race as the Serbs. But the Serbs had the opportunity of committing bigger atrocities by an order of magnitude or two, and they took it.

You Srebrenica Massacre deniers are idiots and you poison this otherwise excellent website with your idiocy.

members of the same damned human race as the Serbs
*******
I find this comment rather FACIST...
Muslims are an ideology, while the Serbs are a nationality.
The jury's still out on the Srebrenica massacre. I find comments like this disgusting. As far as I know, the Serbs were the victims of genocide during the WWII, way before communism, and are now surrounded and overrun by the muslims. Because of people like Karl here, who are so blinded by the cold war hatreds and are capable of writing crap like this, I abhor being a Republican.
Karl go and read a bit about the Ottoman empire...before you come here to discuss things you're clueless about. And Karl...shame on you.

In Islam's grand land grab scheme, the Muslims have clearly shown they will sacrifice their own people if that is what it takes to win..We see it at work every day with the suicidal Muslim bombers..

As long as anyone can make such sweeping statements about "damned human race" of European people just because they're from the "east," I won't feel comfortable with JW. It's no different than what the Nazis believed in. Hitler also disliked the Slavs. I personally find ANY SLAV much closer to me culturally, intellectually, and spiritually than any muslim. Regarding Srebrenica, we're discovering so many lies and spins that have been served to us regarding this war, that I would like to see more evidence. A muslim mass-murdering woman was recently arrested in Kansas, and there are muslims who are listed as supposedly executed in Srebrenica but are alive and well, living in the US. BTW, the whole incident is being questioned because of the report made by the Dutch troops.

And I don't think that anyone here's a "Srebrenica denier" but it's clear that Karl is a BIGOT.
And here's some Bosnian muslim "history" specifically regarding the WWII and the Holocaust.


http://www.cdn-friends-icej.ca/medigest/may00/arabnazi.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/13th_Waffen_Mountain_Division_of_the_SS_Handschar_(1st_Croatian)

http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/2088

My correspondents apparently aren't aware of the origin of the expression "the damned human race." It's Mark Twain's. When he uses it, or I use it, it refers to the damned human race. To the Serbs, the Bosniaks, the Jews, the Americans, the Nazis, the left-handers, the Japanese, the Iranians, the Catholics, the right-handers, the men, the women, even the Esperantists. All are capable of evil and evil is manifested in members of all these groups. This is why I say that revealing Bosniak war crimes justifies the Srebrenica Massacre no more than the killing of Reinhard Heydrich justified the Holocaust.

It is not bigotry against Serbs to witness the Srebrenica Massacre any more than it is bigotry against Germans to witness the Holocaust. This is not because they are racially predisposed to evil but because of the ideas prevalent in their societies at the time.

We Americans are capable of seeing our own evil, whether in our genocidal behavior toward the pre-Columbian inhabitants of North America or in our forcible evacuation of ethnic Japanese from the West Coast. It is the mark of a dangerously immature society (which includes many Muslims) when a society is able to see itself only as the victim of others, and never the victimizer.

BTW, I also have one Slav close to me. I'm married to her.

Karl, you sound just like that Croat-Canadian lunatic Kuhner...And don't you little bigot hide behind any "quotes." Do your reading, and come back to discuss like a civilized human being. Shame on you. Especially read on HANJAR divisions in Bosnia.

It is not bigotry against Serbs to witness the Srebrenica Massacre.
********
If you had the patience to read and view the whole thing you would realize HOW ridiculous this sounds. The problem with people like you is that they stopped thinking (or reading) way before the Berlin Wall came down. You have a CNN report attention span (nothing longer than 5 minutes, and preferably "predigested").

Come to think of it, reading that quote of yours up there tells me you aren't even a native speaker, but came here to wage some "private war"....
From what you wrote, it appears that you're a "witness" of both Srebrenica and Holocaust...

In case you haven't noticed, this forum is not a Cold War forum, or "I hate (certain ethnic groups forum)" but a forum that discusses Islam and the dangers this ideology poses to the civilized world.

Ever since the mid 90’s I had maintained that no matter what anti Serb propaganda is presented on TV about Bosnia I am on the side of the Serbs and against the muslims. In fact to be on the side of the nonmuslim against a muslim is always a safe bet with me. It’s too bad that the truth is coming out so long after the events. Remember Pallywood? The despicable ability of muslims to create own victims to get sympathy. All muslims engages in this in some form. This part of the deception to nonmuslims.

Pictures to remember, 1st, the Serbs loading up woman and children in trucks to be taken to safety in Srebrenica, 2nd, interview with a muslim Bosnian describing his so called forced duty to murder a family man and than to rape and kill his young daughter, and then repeat this at least 6o times to other Serb families. he of course is following the teachings and examples of the perfect man muhammed. Maybe some of these rape killing became attributed to Serb in the minds of the clueless western people.

How dare you compare the Srebrenica Massacre to the Jewish holocaust? Yes, there was a massacre of Bosnian forces by Serbs who suspected them of killing and raping Serbs in the villages. If I was there at the time I would probably done the same, revenge is a strong driver of men.

However the holocaust has to do with Hitler's mass murders of innocent Jewish, Slav, and gypsy, civilians, men, women, and children. Hitler would have been squarely on the side of the Bosnian war criminals as they swept into Serb town murdering and raping Serbs to their hearts content.

He's obviously demented...
There's NO COMPARISON between the the Holocaust and Srebrenica. Another troll...One of those idiots who want to contribute to muslim "martyrdom"....

The last video is devastating for the Clinton administration. Here we an administration that had bought into to complete lies of Serb massacres, ethnic cleansings, and genocide without solid proof but were almost clueless about al-Qaida and muslim jihad warriors in Bosnia.

The Clinton administration joined up with the evil Iran regime to pump arms to the muslims. Like the mafia these former officials are now trying to hide their guilt and culpabilities in promoting the ethnic cleansing and genocidal attacks by the muslims against the Serbs.

This is probably one of the most shameful former policy decisions since the one to hand over Iran to the evil ayatollahs while turning our backs on the 2nd true ally we had in the region, the shah of Iran.

BTW, I also have one Slav close to me. I'm married to her.

Is she Bosniak, or Croat?

So according to Kel, although everywhere in the world where there is a large Muslim presence there is terrorism, war, murder, rape, jihad etc. only when the Serbs in the Balkans are concerned, the Serbs are in the wrong and the Muslims are in the right? Interesting...

To compare the execution of a large number of Muslim men of fighting age in Srebrenica (no more than 2000 men is the true number, not anywhere near 8000) as revenge for 3 years of slaughtering and brutally murdering more than 3000 Serbian civilians in and around Srebrenica (which doesn't make execution of prisoners right, but it gives it some much needed context which the MSM refuses to provide) to the Holocaust and the extermination of millions by the Nazis shows what a Bosniak Muslim troll this guy is. That is exactly what the Bosniak Muslim strategy is: equate a multi-sided civil war where tens of thousands died on all sides to the one-sided Nazi Holocaust, except this time the Muslims are the true victims. (surprise, surprise)

Disgusting.

In order to somehow reach this quite ludicrous 7,000 executed number, it become necessary to believe the word of witnesses who couldn't even get simple facts like the date of the execution right. Not only that but the upper estimates of these witness' claims had to become part of the Srebrenica story.

Take the Branjevo Farm massacre. Now the ICTY claim that 1,200 POWs were executed. Where do they get that number from? Well, Drazen Erdemovic gave it to them. However he has to be the World's most inept witness.

Ever.

The other source for this number was a Bosnian Muslim who survived the execution. Unfortunately he couldn't even get the date of the execution correct so how reliable is his claim of 1,000 to 1,500 executed. Also he somehow made this calculation whilst running away from the site, convinced he'd be cut down by gunfire at any moment, he'd had almost nothing to eat or drink for the previous few days, and had lain under a body, feigning death. As he ran away, he turned his head and meticulously counted the number of bodies in a couple of petrified seconds.

Is this credible?

Of course only a little over 100 bodies were later found at the Branjevo farm so it looks like the ICTY and practically everybody has upped the body count by a factor of 10.

Other claims are even more tenuos, for example the Pilica Culture dom massacre claimed some 500 POWs lives. How do we know this?

Well, the ONLY evidence we have is Drazen Erdemovic. Yes, that most unsound of witnesses ever to appear in a court is the only source for this 500 POW massacred number.

How does he know?

Well, someone told him. Yes, we're talking about hearsay from a man who is mentally unbalanced and lied about almost everything.

Who told him?

A man claiming to be a VRS lieutenant Colonel. Drazen Erdemovic doesn't know his name and as of 2011 no one in the entire World knows who he his, including the prosecution of the ICTY. Drazen Erdemovic had never met him before that day and has never seen nor heard of him since.

But that's good enough for the ICTY to claim that the VRS executed 500 Bosnian Muslim POWs.

So, we have some 130 odd bodies of victims of an execution and the prosecution have somehow managed to make that a rather unfeasible 1,700.

No wonder the nonsense about genocide after the fall of Srebrenica in July 1995 is collapsing like a pack of cards.

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