Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Muslim Brotherhood) complains about misunderstanders of Islam in U.S.

Ellison2011.jpg"I'm not sure I understand it myself"


When Ellison speaks about people misunderstanding Islam, he doesn't mean people like Naser Abdo, the would-be second Fort Hood jihad mass murderer; or Khalid Aldawsari, the would-be jihad mass murderer in Lubbock, Texas; or Muhammad Hussain, the would-be jihad bomber in Baltimore; or Mohamed Mohamud, the would-be jihad bomber in Portland; or Nidal Hasan, the successful Fort Hood jihad mass-murderer; or Faisal Shahzad, the would-be Times Square jihad mass-murderer; or Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, the Arkansas military recruiting station jihad murderer; or Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, the would-be Christmas airplane jihad bomber; or so many other jihad murderers and would-be murderers. He doesn't explain whether or not those men and others like them understand Islam properly. The people he has in mind are those who doubt, even in the face of all the evidence that these men have provided and so much more, that Islam is a Religion of Peace™.

Also, this VOA News puff piece fails to mention, not surprisingly, that Ellison accepted $13,350 from the Muslim American Society to go on a pilgrimage to Mecca.

And what is the Muslim American Society? The Muslim Brotherhood. "In recent years, the U.S. Brotherhood operated under the name Muslim American Society, according to documents and interviews. One of the nation's major Islamic groups, it was incorporated in Illinois in 1993 after a contentious debate among Brotherhood members." -- Chicago Tribune, 2004, via the Muslim Brotherhood's English-language website, Ikhwanweb.

"Congressman: Misunderstanding of Islam Continues in the US," by Karlina Amkas for VOA News, July 31 (thanks to Maxwell):

Most Muslims around the world will start the fasting month of Ramadan on Monday, August 1. In America, Muslims have been conducting a series of events to welcome the holy month of Ramadan. But, according to a U.S. Congressman, Islam still is mostly misunderstood in the United States.

Keith Ellison, a member of the House of Representatives from the midwestern state of Minnesota delivered greetings on the fasting month.

Islam is still much misunderstood

Ellison took office in January, 2007, and became the first Muslim to be elected to the U.S. Congress. He was first elected in November of 2006, just five years after the 9/11 terrorist attacks. He has won re-election twice since then. [...]

Islam, Ellison acknowledged, is still much misunderstood. But, he asserts, Islam in America is not something new. Islam has been in America for 14 generations. He regrets though, that throughout the world, people treated religion as their identity and are willing to kill or die over the identity associated with religion, not the faith, but religious identity.

"If you use your religion as an identity as opposed to a path to divine, inspirations and guidance, then you are no different than Crips and Bloods [gangs]," he said. "And I want to say that I mean that."

Make this world a better place

Surveys show that about 60 percent of Americans do not understand Islam. To further introduce Islam, Ellison argued, the Muslim community in America should be much more vocal about who they really are, then take actions in their chosen field.

"If you can make a movie, make one. If you could sing a song, sing it. If you could write a play, write it. If you want to run for office - run, but do something to make this world a better place" said Ellison. "And then we don’t even have to worry about what religion we are because we [will] all be united in what we believe, which is service to humanity."...

"Service to humanity."

It's a cookbook!

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If you could sing a song, sing it!

i'm surprised. none of what Ellison recommends is allowable should a Shariaphile take his advice. sounds like a political statement made to those not of the mosque to convince them that a Muslim is just like anyone else and that the creed he/she follows is absolutely harmless.

Mr. Ellison says that Islam is misunderstood. Yet he makes no effort to address the very real concerns that people have for his religion.
The violence it provokes, the anti-semitic statements in the Quran, the attacks on women and non muslims in muslim countries, none of these are answered.
I don't think running for office, writing a poem or singing a song are going to address these concerns.
We need some answers Mr. Ellison. And so far they have not been forth coming

Forgive me for repeating myself on Ellison as a professional Islamic disinformationist, but his egregious distortion of Quran 5:32-33 with Bill Maher is worth exposing every time he pleads public misunderstanding of the religion of extreme intolerance, domination & oppression:

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2011/03/keith_ellisons_taqiyya.html

I don't understand why this Muslim Brotherhood agent, Ellison, is not investigated for corruption if he receives $13,350 from the Muslim American Society to go on a pilgrimage to Mecca? This is bizarre!

There is enough problems with the holy rollers in the US without importing the sons of Allah. If the US wants to open its doors to immigration, there are lots of people of color with engineering degrees from China and India that want to come here.

i don't know about you guys, but seeing this musloid-convert's face, just plain gives me the creeps. BIG TIME!
and i am wondering, is it because my bull-shiite detector is at an overloaded dangerous level, is it because i DO believe my 'lying eyes' and not the taquyia crap coming out of his mouth and that of practically every musloid that is just trying to 'build fences', speaking with a very soft voice how peaceful and spiritual this kkkoran really is (why, even the musloid in chief, fraudulently occupying the w.h. claims the 'muslim call to prayer to be the 'sweetest sound on earth'...forgive me while i throw up!...
just finished rewatching milos forman 1984 'amadeus' with the truly DIVINE music of mozart... symphony # 25, the requiem, clarinet concerto...etc. and then to have that FRAUD (!) describe this hate speech attacking human ears 5 times a day...is just too much!

what i hate most about these musloids (coming to think of it...it's not an easy choice given the huge selection to choose from..:), ) is how they insult our inteligence with their taquyia...


"It's a cookbook!"

ROFLMAO, Robert! You have a true wit!

Why, oh why, does this guy have to be from MN?

If only I could convince my family to move to a Red State!

I wanna go to Texas . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMk208Op1Jc

Why do I continue to see,and read otherwise Mr.Ellison? Am I somehow blind to the activities of so many Muslims across the planet? Is everything I see and read a misread,and a misunderstood action by Muslims? Is nearly 18,000 documented Islamic attacks around the world since 9-11 some kind of strange and mis-characterized anomaly? Am I suppose to go on --faith alone because Keith Ellison says so? --and that most other Muslims are misunderstood? How do you equate,rationalize,or explain all the Muslims attacks that have occurred In the US and so many other parts of the world from the Philippines to Somalia,and the Sudan, from Egypt where Coptic Christians are routinely attacked and their Churches destroyed? Where are all these Muslims mislead on their activities Mr Ellison? Why do I see "no go zones in almost every EU Country today because of the threats made by Muslims in these areas from France,Britain,Belgium,the Netherlands,Norway,Sweden,Etc? What has been happening in Lebanon with Hezbollah over the last 30 years,why is Israel continuously attacked and threatened by Muslims from Lebanon,the Palestinian territories, and Egypt? Why does Iran threaten the Jewish People with annihilation from their president almost weekly? Why does Abu-Sayef, and the Moro Islamic front yell Allah Akbar as they murder Filipinos on the land belonging to the Philippines. Why do clerics and Imans threaten to take over Australia in their sermons? Why does Anjem Choudary walk the streets of London threatening to establish sharia law and a Caliphate in England? Why do the Islamic Thinkers in Jackson Heights,New York walk the neighborhood streets yelling that Islam will take over America and establish a caliphate? Why as Robert Spencer pointed out have so many Muslims either murdered Americans or are attempting to murder Americans.

OKAY OKAY! you get the picture, no doubt I could actually go page after page Mr. Ellison and yet you want me to believe Muslims are misunderstood-- sorry but I keep having a rough time there.

e-mail to Mr. Ellison
As often as you have used the term "misunderstanding Islam," I have yet to hear you explain what is being misunderstood. What are we Americans misunderstanding about Islam?

You misunderstood Thomas Jefferson's reason for having a Qur'an back when you took the oath of office using Jefferson's Qur'an and blew all that smoke about why he had the Holy Book.

Shame on you and please understand us misunderstanders for I know you'll misunderstand what I really do understand about Islam, but if I don't, please enlighten me. Wait, I don't understand that.

This was nothing more to a call for all Muslims and liberal Muslim lovers to push the propaganda any way you can.

http://newstime.co.nz/sabine-schiffer.html
Islam is NOT a Religion of Peace™

Islam is a "Religion" of open-ended WAR against the unbelievers (9:5, 9:29), Amputation (8:12, 5:38),
Torture (5:33, 24:2,4) & Pedophiles (65:4)

I love that song, too. I listen to it often and I get chills.

Spoiler alert: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x0BSgLKnSk

For the rest of us, a fond memory and a perfect bit of humour from our gracious host who would probably have us for dinner in whole other ways.

And we clearly know that Thomas Jefferson used that Quran to try and understand the thinking of Muslims. Jefferson would go on to say that the Quran actually helped in defeating the Barbary Pirates much as Sun Tzu teaches our Military through his book "The Art of War" to know and understand your enemy if you wish to defeat him.

Another words Keith Ellison was in fact taking an oath by placing his hand on a Quran that was actually used by President Thomas Jefferson as a helpful tool to defeat marauding Muslims.

Mohammad was a false prophet.

"Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles"?
Matthew 7:15-16

No. The problem is that Notislam is not understood.
Muslims don't understand that we don't like slavery, passivity in the face of a savage god, unreason, aggression and their insistence on forcing their nasty belief system down our throats at every opportunity.
THEY need to know that THEY have the problem, and are not worthy of any respect whatsoever until they learn about US.

They are lying, but it's part of the jihad to deceive your enemy. Biggest bold faced lie, "Islam is a religion of Peace". Watch them pulling the strings on their puppet Bush.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_ZoroJdVnA

Robert,
I have pisslams number alright!

Misunderstanding Islam - my foot!!

We understand Islam perfectly well! It is he and millions of Muslims who don't know the truth about Islam or they know it and don't want us to know it. These are the tactics Muslims have used from the time of Mo/allah and are still using it to pull the wool the over our eyes. Anyway, it's not gonna work and we will work tirelessly to expose Muslims, Islam and their lies.

Religion of peace it is not by any means. As soon as the so called "holy" month of Ramadan comes, Muslims renew the killings of non-Muslims with new vigor. As we know killings and murders are "holy" in Islam and every one of them is vying for those 72 hoories in their imaginary afterlife with the killings during Ramadan!!

I am so sick of hearing about Muslims and Islam. Basically I never did until September 11, 2001, up to the present day. We should have kicked their a** on September 12 but Bush submitted and said "Islam is a religion of peace," instead.

And look where we are today. Losers like Ellison who actually convert to the religion of hate and have the unmitigated gall to inform us highly-intelligent folks that we "misunderstand."

We are truly down the rabbit hole for all this cr** to actually be happening in the 21st century.

What we would degenerate into if Ellison, islam and sharee had their way:

Suicide bombing is a relatively new tactic for Afghans. But if angry enough, Afghans will make suicidal attacks. This is often prompted by some (real or perceived) personal insult or injury. For example, the mayor of Kandahar was recently killed by a man angered at how the city destroyed his home (a shack in a new slum) and those of others. The city government efforts also killed two of the man's children, as his shack was demolished. When he complained, the city just blew him off. In an ancient Afghan tradition of revenge, the victim rigged explosives in his turban, approached the mayor, and blew them both away. This kind of violence is often caused by more mundane matters. NATO soldiers have learned that many Afghans have serious anger management issues. Thus one should be careful about getting into an argument with an armed Afghan. Most of the incidents where Afghan police or soldiers shoot NATO personnel is not about Taliban infiltration, but a recent argument, often over something trivial (at least to the Westerners). An Afghan will often open fire on armed NATO troops, even though it's obvious that this is a suicidal action.
There's a lot more of this violence among Afghans. Westerners are appalled to discover how violent Afghanistan is. It's not just men killing each other over minor matters, but violence against women and children. Western doctors and nurses working in clinics see a lot of this, much more so than they would back home.

We don't need more crazy, anger management required type people in America, or the West. But islam keeps trying in half to 80% of the mosks, and of course import the madressas, which in Afgan again one sees this reality:

"Suicide and roadside bombs are the favored weapons, because confronting Western-trained Afghan troops is nearly as dangerous as confronting the Western soldiers. For all their warrior tradition, the Afghans are not suicidal. But they do like to convince someone else to be suicidal. This is the job of the religious schools in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Most of these schools are just that, but many seek to indoctrinate the young boys into the ways of Islamic radicalism, and suicide bombing. Most of the kids resist this, but enough succumb to provide plenty of bombers for the Taliban in southern Afghanistan. But as this bombing campaign increased, more parents became aware of the recruiting efforts and the effect it was having on their kids. The schools are being scrutinized more carefully by parents, and those that turn the kids into suicidal killers are avoided. The schools are still popular, because religious education, and education in general, is in demand. The religious schools are usually free, but now many of them in Pakistan are suspect."

That's over there, but here the parents don't scrutinize, mostly, and abuse and God knows what else occurs in American madrassas, certainly it's hell in UK madrassas, mostly as a matter of course.

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Muslim Brotherhood

Give discredit where discredit's due. He's from a congressional district adjacent to mine. I personally know some of the voters who jacked the lever for Keith. Kinda creepy, but we take a queer pride in that.

My Adam's Apple bobbed like a basketball as Rep. Keith shed his alligator tears in the hearing room that day.

*** 33:21 ***

It's a cookbook!

Actually, wouldn't that be an addendum to the charter document the Swiss federal police found years ago in that raid on the Mo-Bro-Hood nest operating there at the time?

72 virgins? Not.

"All of them are uncircumcised, killed by the sword because they spread their terror in the land of the living. Do they not lie with the other uncircumcised warriors who have fallen, who went down to the grave with their weapons of war, whose swords were placed under their heads? The punishment for their sins rested on their bones, though the terror of these warriors had stalked through the land of the living."
Ezekiel 32:26,27


Ellison's speech is a typical empowerment kitman speech, so that Americans will be dumbed down, hyptnotized to sleep, for when sharee and islam decides they can take over for the global caliphate, by waving the hand or by force and terror.

Let's see - 270 hundred million infidels killed in 1400 years - I think I understand Islam just fine......

I unconditionally assert that I don't misunderstand Islam one God damn bit.

Ellison is a claassic lieing, slimy, oily, taqiyya slinging kitman wallowing, devious member in good standing of islam, in the grand officially authorized principle (surah) of allah, and his litle buddy, mo.

I'd believe one word of his type, all of them, when hell is proven to have frozen over, completely and forever, in fact!

"Mr. Ellison says that Islam is misunderstood."

Perhaps it's me, but I'm willing to guess it's all the killing and threatening and bloody rituals they celebrate that has WE lover's of life (as opposed to those infatuated with bloody death and destruction in the name of their prophet Muhammad) that has people 'put off' you dumb Muhammad humper.

i truly couldn't agree with you more cw.
in fact (no surprise there) all those that have commented were expressing a variation of the same theme:

we underestand islam. very well. we do not need a lecture from keith muhammad who might even (on command, and miraculously) shed some crocodile tears....

NO!!!

we do not need this crap.what we DO need (and please forgive me for sounding a bit repetitive, but so do ALL the news related to islam...entirely predictible from a to z)is the following:

a realization that the time for words is way past gone!
a musloid's credibility is less than zero and whatever plans we do make, they should be UNILATERAL.
and the funny thing (sad actually) is that there is nothing racist about what i am saying to treat them as 2nd class citizens...

they are here, in the west - fine.

they M.U.S.T. obey the laws of the west and the slightest sign of a hint of an attempt to establish their seditious musloid-cult's laws aka as sharia...will earn him/her and his family a swift immediate irreversible one way deportation to the musloid country of his choice...
cleaning the environment one musloid at the time, all while who knows, allowing the mysterious non-existant, not observed as yet, 'moderate muslims' come out of their heavy fortified closets, as they, 'the peaceful-moderate-muslims' need not fear for their lives from the devout musloids any more.

Kinda like building a mosk on a temple or church on a conquered area, actually, or so he hoped, symbolically, the oily SOB!

I too would like to have the $13,350 investigated. Mr.Ellison has a right to beleive and have faith in "whatever" he wants. And if his belief/religion wants him to make a religious pilgrimage, fine do it, but do it with you're own money.

I SAY INVESTIGATE HIM!! Shake him up abit and let see what falls out.

And to all those who live in Minnesota, especially you non-muslims vote him out of office. He can pay for his own trips abroad, "receiving of unlawful payments" if it's not a law lets make it one, and a retroactive law.


I have said this before and will repeat it.

If you watch the Bill Mhaer video with him when Bill calls the quran a hate-filled holy book,you then here Ellison admit he was a failed-Catholic (lack of effort to learn it) and now admits he doesn't read the Quran in Arabic .
He then absolves himself of fixing the violence and jihad in the west by then admitting that "Experts" other than him should counter the Jihad claims and Terrorism verses.

Ellison is like those female Marriage experts on the Radio that suddenly know everything are 3-4 failed marriages them selves. If you want be to be wealthy you don't partner with the poor,if you want to be Educated you need the best schools and Universities.
Ellison hangs around the islamists that embrace ignorance from their recruits, he vacations in Saudi Arabia that murders gays in public , he hangs around CAIR that wants Shariah Law in canada and the USA.

He's either using the Sgt'Schultz excuse that he SAW Naughhhthing in the Mosques or from CAIR, or he's part of he new " It takes a village idiot to let others raise your child and attend Madrassa's" .

Ellison in his own waords convicts himself of being a Misunderstander.

"Surveys show that about 60 percent of Americans do not understand Islam. To further introduce Islam, Ellison argued, the Muslim community in America should be much more vocal about who they really are, then take actions in their chosen field."

Ellison is right; too many Americans really don't understand islam. And that's why we have folks like Robert Spencer. Methnks muslim Keith had better be careful for what he wishes!

Gee, I think the "muslim community" (does he mean Dearborn?) have been quite vocal about who they really are.
"Taking actions in their chosen field?" That would be Jihad, of course...

"17532 deadly terror attacks carried out by islamic terrorists since 9/11." (TheReligionofPeace.com)

What's not to understand?

On the contrary, more and more Americans are understanding Islam every day, and that's a bad thing, for a religion that depends on ignorance. Knowledge is dangerous to Islam.

Was he bawling again?

I’m confused. It seems just about everyone who has commented here is convinced that Islam is a false religion and that Muslims are very dangerous people. On the other hand, some large and influential Christian churches seem to have a diametrically opposite view.

Take the United Church of Canada, a mainstream Protestant church resulting from a merger of Methodists and Presbyterians. Here’s what they say:

"The 39th General Council of the United Church of Canada, the second largest Christian group in Canada after the Roman Catholics, has adopted an important statement on Christian-Muslim relations. The final version of the statement, entitled ‘That We May Know Each Other’, was adopted after a year of church-wide study of the initial draft.

"The statement affirms that Muslims and Christians believe in the same God and share a common heritage through the prophet Abraham. It 'acknowledges the prophetic witness of Muhammad', and that the mercy, compassion and justice of God are expressed in the Qur’an, which is regarded by Muslims as the Word of God."

The Roman Catholic Church (which promoted the Crusades and has not always been very charitable toward Muslims) seems to agree with the United Church of Canada. The Catholic catechism says this:

"841. The Church's relationship with the Muslims. 'The plan of salvation also includes those [non-Christians] who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom [after the Jews] are the Muslims; they profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind's judge on the last day'."

That teaching was proclaimed during the Vatican II Council in the 1960s after the bishops present accepted it by a vote of 2,151 for and only 5 against. That's as strong as the votes in early times that proclaimed the doctrines of Christ's divinity and the Trinity.

That same Council also declared the following:

"The Church regards with respect the Muslims, who worship the One, Living, Subsistent, Merciful, Almighty God who created the heavens and the earth, who spoke to men. They strive to submit wholeheartedly to God's commandments...even as Abraham submitted himself to God, whose obedience is often recalled in the Islamic religion. Although they do not recognize Jesus as God, they do venerate him as a prophet and they honour his virgin mother, Mary.... They await the Day of Judgment, when God will reward all those risen from the dead. They hold in high regard the moral life and worship God,particularly by prayer, charity and fasting."

The opinions most people express in this blog are diametrically and irreconcilably opposed to the official teachings of these Protestant and Catholic churches.

"They strive to submit wholeheartedly to God's commandments...even as Abraham submitted himself to God, whose obedience is often recalled in the Islamic religion."

I believe that one of those commandments reads:

"Thou shalt not kill."

Another reads "Thou shalt not bear false witness."

Another reads "Thou shalt not lie."

How about "Do not take the name of the Lord in vain"?

Jesus also warned to beware of false prophets.


It doesn't appear that these commandments are being adhered to on the part of jihadists. All anyone needs to do is look around them to see this.

Jihadists take the verses of war in the Koran at face value.

Hope this clears things up a bit.

Mo was a touched in the head warlord, not a prophet of God.


As Canto28 makes note of above, here’s the Maher vs. Ellison YouTube clip. Although Ellison had a lot of stupid responses (including the typical misrepresentation of Qur’an 5:27 through 5:32—killing one person/saving one life—without mentioning the barbaric punishments in 5:33, of course. Of further significance, he claims that Anwar al Awlaki misquotes, misuses, and doesn’t really understand the Qur’an. I guarantee you that Alwaki is far more knowledgable about the Qur'an (and the Sunnah)than Ellison ever will be.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9hzX8moyM_s
It’s too bad Maher didn’t have a few more Qur’anic passages to further challenge Ellison’s B.S.

In another clip, Maher (after interviewing numerous lying Muslims) declares at 4:17:
“I just don’t buy it, that these guys are in this state of denial. I think they’re just in this state of denial to an outsider. They will not admit anything is wrong with their culture to an outsider.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K1of1BV_5gI&NR=1&feature=fvwp
In that clip, Maher definitely nailed it.

Personally , I'm sick to death of islam, muslims and all the lying & violence that comes along with it. What a massiive irritant and threat. The world does not need this false "religion" which is in truth a political ideology trying to control everything and everyone through violence and intimidation.


"Pointing out that Islam is violent, bigoted and misogynistic is not an act of violence. It is not a call for violence. It is a call for sanity. "-Daniel Greenfield

@ Morristhewise - Which "holy rollers" would those be?

Keith Ellison is beneath contempt and those who voted for this Islamic trash should have their voting rights stripped from them and then deort them to lets say........ohhhhh.............Eygpt....mmmmmm....

I’m confused. It seems just about everyone who has commented here is convinced that Islam is a false religion and that Muslims are very dangerous people. On the other hand, some large and influential Christian churches seem to have a diametrically opposite view.

In 2006 Pope Benedict publicly dabbled with Islam when he invoked the thoughts of Byzantine emperor Manuel II Paleologus. All he did was quote the dude, and the Moslem world went on DefCon IV alert. The Pope quickly saw what was up, mumbled what sorta sounded like an apology, and disappeared.

No cleric of a civilized religion, except maybe that dude down in Florida, has uttered a peep since.

@ qalam96

Those who inform themselves about the basics of Christianity and Islam will never make such comments about both groups of followers worshipping the same God and all the supposed similarities between these two faiths, and all the rest.

The god of Islam is nothing like the God of the Bible. Islam uses some of the same names and events as described in the Bible, but they are NOTHING alike.

Again, anyone who has educated themselves on these two faiths - even just a basic knowledge - would know that. Your tone sounds like you are trying to bait people here by saying that our views our opposed to the teachings of these churches.

Please clarify. Thank you.

In the first phase when Muslims are at below 2% of the population, they advance Islam by marketing it as a harmless and likable. They even project Izlam to be teddy bear like and cuddly to the gullible and stupid Kaffir. They know that they have not yet attained critical mass of population to aggressively pursue their agenda. This is what Keith Ellison (Kuffar name?) is doing.

When they cross 5% they start becoming assertive with their faith, when they become around 10% they start using violence and intimidation as a tool to advance Islam, when they cross 20% they actively start demanding cessation from the host country. And when they cross the majority, all hell breaks loose on the kaffirs!

This is Islam's standard operating procedure. It has been tried and tested for 1400 years.

When they cross 5% they start becoming assertive with their faith, when they become around 10% they start using violence and intimidation as a tool to advance Islam, when they cross 20% they actively start demanding cessation from the host country. And when they cross the majority, all hell breaks loose on the kaffirs!

Actually, these are pretty good threshold numbers, Pagan. The longstanding question to axe is this: at what percentage do they hit critical mass and bust a power move for Sharia takeover? Malay offers an interesting example on this.

*** 33:21 ***

The most highly respected and devout Ayatollah Ruholla Khomeini, may peace and blessings be upon heem, once observed that there is no fun in Islam. But that's bullsheet cuz Moslem Men have fun all the time.

So let us Infidels have a little fun, too. Where we just could not for some reason define victory in Iraq and Afghan, we'll go ahaid and define defeat for a contest in which Judeo-Christian nation state will be the first to fall into the clutches of Dar al-Islam. We'll keep an online raffle board to run the contest, all bets strictly theoretical and for entertainment purposes only.

*** 33:21 ***

Defeat = Sharia on par with the Judeo-Christian nation state's existing law, a Moslem running the police and military complex of the country, and full implementation of Dhimmi status for all non-Moslems.

For some reason, I'm thinking Belgium. Anybody wanna bet? Theoretically and strictly for entertainment purposes only, of course.

If not Belgium, then Norway is looking pretty good this week. Canada is always playing catch up, but they have a small population serviced by gubmint controlled media, so don't rule the Canucks out of the race.

"Service to humanity."
It's a cookbook!

Heh. Good one Robert.

For those who might not catch Robert's reference, it is to a famous episode from the third season of the TV science fiction series The Twilight Zone series, titled "To Serve Man" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/To_Serve_Man_%28The_Twilight_Zone%29

It's a cookbook. Very apt analogy, indeed.

Understanding Islam is easy. Just compare it to Christianity.

Christianity: Love conquers all.
Islam: Hate conquers all.

And that's it, in a nutshell.

Poor Keith. He is a baptized Catholic, so he cannot be a moslem. Keith, you are always welcome to come back to your true faith. God bless.

You should cite links to prove your points. Having no reference to look at means little on a site like this.

Were these statements made recently? One was cited from the 1960's?

That teaching was proclaimed during the Vatican II Council in the 1960s after the bishops present accepted it by a vote of 2,151 for and only 5 against. That's as strong as the votes in early times that proclaimed the doctrines of Christ's divinity and the Trinity.

Would the church get those kinds of numbers today? knowing what we know about Islam? Considerably more people have read the Quran since 9/11 out of curiosity as to why 19 people would ram jets into the WTC and kill 3,000 people in the name of their religion.

Are you aware that Muslims don't view Jesus as the son of god? Are you aware that they do not believe in the trinity? Muslims consider Christians to be corrupt because they believe in the trinity.

I'm sure some Christians mean well by making these statements but reality is that violent Islam is on the rise around the world.

Eastview, the "To Serve Man" reference may go back the Twilight Zone, but before that, it was part of The Silver Chair (one of the seven Narnia books) by C.S. Lewis. The story may precede Lewis, as well.

Knowing what Islam is?

The truth is that a very few free-people in the Continent of Africa have been astonished over the woeful failure of great democratic begets to have understood the implications of Islam. A dangerous error that continued to the time of 911 and President George Bush.

Well, my advice to these very few is that they should stop in their feelings of animosity over the people of the West.

Why?
Because, their is no living European soldier or politician, who can tell better, the color and barbarian nature of hunger, better than a today Somali-an.

Rep. Keith Ellison (D-Muslim Brotherhood); should please, tell it to the Birds.

They are always pushing for the Sharia, critical mass or not. The key thing to note is the METHOD with which they go about it.

And the method varies according to their population proportion in the host nation. In effect, the time a SINGLE Muslim enters Dar-Al- Harb, the push for Sharia begins.

Of course, the push for Sharia accelerates EXPONENTIALLY beyond a certain population percentage.

Bets?

Well,
Russia is getting pretty close. They are at 15%, aren't they? And the Russian men are dying like flies. It is only natural that the women who cant find partners will eventually end with Muslims from Central Asia.

France perhaps? 10% now, with major cities like Marseilles already reportedly majority Muslim.

Germany with it's shrinking population and its reluctance to confront the guilt of WW II?

India is also getting there too at 20% and the declining Hindu birth rates and conversions? Perhaps when the time comes this spineless nation should be quarantined treated as an enemy because of the sheer number of Mohammedans (>150 million) it harbors?

Israel? Is currently at 20% But the thing that works for Israel is that it is an officially declared Jewish state, so the state has to uphold Jewish traditions first and foremost.

Of course countries with smaller populations like Holland, Belgium, Norway and Sweden will always be safe "bets."

Wow, things do look bleak!

I am depressed now.

qalam above has quoted directly from an Islamic website called -- can you guess? -- Qalam.

A measure of his reliability is that the Qalam website explains jihad with the hadith about the greater and lesser jihads. According to the tale, Muhammad said the lesser jihad is military, and the greater one is against one's own ego or passions.

Unfortunately, the Islamic scholars agree that that "hadith" about lesser vs. greater jihads is a da'if (weak) or maudu (fabricated) hadith. Islamic scholars rely primarily on hadiths classified as sahih (authentic) and hasan (good). Da'if (weak) hadiths are considered valid only if supported by sahih or hasan hadiths or by the Qur'an. Fabricated (maudu) hadiths are not considered to be hadiths at all.

The da'if or maudu hadith about the greater and lesser jihads is contradicted by hadiths classified as authentic or good, and also by the Qur'an.

Apparently Qalam is ignorant of an easily verifiable fact, or else is trying to deceive people.

I can best show the point of my above comment thus:

Bernard Lewis says the overwhelming majority of uses of the word "jihad" in Islam's core texts are military in meaning

He writes on page 72 of his book The Political Language of Islam, that

...the overwhelming majority of classical theologians, jurists, and traditionalists [Muslim specialists in the Qur'an, hadiths, life of Muhammad, and Islamic law] ... understood the obligation of jihad in a military sense.
Lewis also writes, on page 31 of his book The Crisis of Islam, that
For most of the fourteen centuries of recorded Muslim history, jihad was most commonly interpreted to mean armed struggle for the defense or advancement of Muslim power.

It looks to me very much as if those who oppose Islam have nearly lost the battle. Your opposition by argument and attempting to open public debate is not working. While you complain and bemoan, nothing changes, islam grows more powerful, its grip on America more virulent by the second. I do not advocate violence, except of course in self defence. However, I think there is serious lack of positive action from those who oppose islam. There could at least be a plan, a broad outline of what individuals can actually do and later, more detailed plans for specific public action. I live in the UK and the British have given up. There are one or two whose voices are raised, but they live in isolation, they do not meet and most of them are ineffectual because they are semi-literate in any case. But America could still organise a resistance, its not entirely too late. But there are no signs of a willingness to engage and directly inform and stimulate and without that, islam will be home soon.

so our ....ahem.."misconceptions"....are because.....TA RA!

"muslim leaders are not very good at telling their stories"

ha ha ha! oh stop stop ha ha! ROFL

didn t know this guy did stand up

congressman....sheesh!

go on........ go on

turn on the waterworks again!

ha ha ha ha!

as we say in the UK, when in the sight of obviously false
whining & self pity

"it would bring a tear to a glass eye"

Anyone know (or care) what percentage of Americans fail to 'understand' Buddhism? or What Quakers stand for? or Are the Amish Puritans?
Maybe because they just get on with their lives and do not demand that we live by their rules? Shariah is not equivalent to other 'religious courts'. The Jewish rules apply only to Jews. No Buddhists insist that all schools serve only vegetarian food. They do not insist that we change our rules to fit their prejudices.

@ Jack Rainbow:
No, the British have not quite given up, it is not necessary to fight islam with violence. We just need to stop tolerating their violence and constant demands.
The schools are the place to start - no head scarves, equal treatment, music & art and sport & swimming for girls and boys - no burkas or burkinis.
Violence in schools must result in arrest and jail for the culprit and investigation of the family - not in the teacher being frightened to go to school.
I know that the prisons are full (perhaps some of those criminals could be tatooed and dumped somewhere where they will be happier?), however this is no excuse for 'social work' being given to violent youths, blackmailers, rapists etc.
One group working towards these goals is the EDL and they are succeeding, else why are the islamic supporters fighting them, defaming them and lying about them in the papers?

When we can openly say "No, we are neither racist nor nazi, we just happen to believe that religion should stay private and our life style is equally worthy of respect" without being ashamed - then we will start to win the battle of ideas.


Hey mohammedan troll:

The Churches stand in ignorance of the Truth (not the first time, either).

"allah" is Satan. Period.

The God of Truth shall defeat the "angel of light", Lucifer. Rest assured.

I'm not as pessimistic as you are, Jack Rainbow, at least not here in America. A growing awareness that Islam is bad news is a reality. Lots of folks simply aren't accepting the official line from the elites that Islam is just fine and criticizing it is evidence of bigotry. The fact that Keith Ellison, the subject of this thread, has to moan about Islam being misunderstood is indicative of what is going on. Moreover, things are being done. Many states, beginning with Oklahoma, have made efforts through their legislatures to severely limit or ban Sharia. I submit that this is just the genesis of a great revulsion towards so much that is found in Islamic doctrine, such as death for apostasy or the fact that Islamic religious law considers non-believers to be the equivalent of human waste.

Your pessimism, however, is understandable, but I think long term Islam is going to so sicken so many in the West that even the elites, particularly the politicians, will have to change their tune. I do worry about Britain though. It is instructive to note that the dearth of Christian belief in Britain and the rise of Islamic fervor there occurred at approximately the same time. I do not believe this is a coincidece (though other factors of course are involved with Britain's "Muslim problem"). The individual in society can function without religion and still lead a purposeful, useful and decent life, but an entire society which has largely given up on its religious heritage and outlook is a society adrift---like Britain. And I write this as one who is not a religious man but who is nonetheless firmly convinced that animosity or indifference towards religion by most of a society is a big mistake, unless, of course, that religion is Islam, in which case no religion is better than having this miserable excuse for a religion guiding a society.

"...I think long term Islam is going to so sicken so many in the West that even the elites, particularly the politicians, will have to change their tune."

I agree, Wellington. But they won't change it without a fight. Rather it will likely be a grass roots Tea Party-like process, where citizens organize outside the existing political establishments to give voice to sentiments to which the elites remain stubbornly deaf, that will force the issue.

The signs that this has begun are seen in the examples you cite in the first paragraph of your comment, but also in the rise of conservative parties protesting the pall Islamic immigration is casting over Europe, such as the Dutch PVV and the EDL in Britain. They and their brethren in other countries are invariably tagged by the MSM with the pejorative labels right wing, reactionary, extremist, racist, bigoted, etc., and accused of inciting violence against Muslims. In reality, of course, these parties didn't just pop out of nowhere for no reason whatsoever. Rather, they came into existence precisely because the political establishment ignored, and continues to ignore, the injury to the sensibilities of common people presented by Muslim unassimilables injected into their midst - and adding insult to injury, being forced not only quietly to endure Muslim aggression on their streets, but being made to pay for support of the aggressors out of the public purse.

So it does appear that awareness of the problem is growing, due in no small part to sites like this one. But the tipping point has not yet been reached where the politicians responsible for the mess they have created are swept en masse from office and replaced by representatives more accurately representing the views of citizens than the current bunch.

History suggests that the longer the process of democratic rectification of errors is obstructed or delayed, the greater the chances that the rectification will take place by non-democratic means. I sense that the Left understands this, which might account for its panic and the shrillness of its rhetoric.

You've offered a sophisticated analysis, Eastview, of the "situation," where it's headed, who will end up heading it, how it will be led and that it will be longer coming than sooner. I'm in full agreement with you.

Rep. Keith Ellison is correct we American citizens don't understand Islam. If we did our borders would be closed. And there would be know more jihadists allowed into the United States.

We Americans are best after the fact, another words we are at our best at reacting and not so much taking action prior to the act.

Of course the majority of the citizens don't understand Islam or Islams commitment to its sick ideology. The scary part is neither do our legislaters, Dept of Defense, courts, or Justice Dept..

If you were to ask the average American what "taqiyya" meant. He or she probably wouldn't have a clue. If you asked what city excepted Islam first Mecca or Medina? If you'd ask which man has killed or by order killed 4 fold more men than Adolph Hitler or J.Stallen put together? They wouldn't ever think the answer was Muhammad by killing or having killed 270 million. Todate Islam is the only group of people that is motivated and committed to killing all other groups world wide. That is the meaning of "jihad" just as Muhammad has ordered. Ask any non-Muslim what the Hadith or the Sura is.

So yes, Rep. Keith Ellison is correct most Americans are still ignorant to Islams ideology. But don't read into that that Americans are cowards, weak, or foolish. We Americans have not yet begun to defend ourselves, our colors are still there. Do not under estimate them or what motivates us.....

Let this idiot live in Iran and I'll pay for his ticket. There he can get all the Islamic spiritual enlightment he desires. Sure isn't the Koran Ellison is reading. No, Islam is understood quite well, at least by us and growing through education and by current world events. I've learned this philosophy the hard way, "It's not what people say, but, rather, it's what they do that tells you their true character and intentions". Why is Obama allowing such as this to be in his administration? Again, for both of these individuals Obama and Ellison, it's not what they say, but, rather what they do. The concepts of Islam as taught in the Koran and Sharia law are incompatible to the American Constitution and an abomination to any freedom loving American who is not ignorant of Islam, the religion of peace.
Stop the Islamification of free nations and we'll all make the world a better place.

qalam96 wrote:

I’m confused. It seems just about everyone who has commented here is convinced that Islam is a false religion and that Muslims are very dangerous people. On the other hand, some large and influential Christian churches seem to have a diametrically opposite view...
................................

We're supposed to believe that a poster with the username "qalam" is just honestly confused by this? "Qalam" translates to "the Pen". "Al Qalam" is the name of a Sura in the Qur'an.

So—this is not an honest question from this poster, but just another occasion for Islamic Da'wa.

Yes, there are many hopeful and willfully ignorant Christians—as well as their Jewish and secular brethren in the West—who desperately want to believe that Islam is just another "Abrahamic" religion, that violent Jihad is a rare aberration only used by "musunderstanders", and that no modern Muslim wants to see barbaric Shari'ah as law.

That such dhimmitude and naivité is common does not make such idiocy so.

"...some large and influential Christian churches seem to have a diametrically opposite view [about considering Islam antithetical to Christianity]."

Yes, some of them do. But at one time, during the Nineteen Century, the Southern Baptist Church condoned slavery, too. In time they changed their stance after coming to recognize that slavery is antithetical to the doctrines of Christianity. I am confident that, as engagement of these pseudo-mainstream churches with Islam intensifies, the Christian churches who dabble in moral equivocation and kumbaya religion will be forced be events to pull their heads of the sand and renew their commitment to the doctrines of Christianity, or risk losing their congregations.

It is a mistake to think that the muddle-headed thinking of the leadership of a few churches somehow signals a permanent rapprochement of the Church with its historically antagonistic enemy Islam. The reason is simple: The supremacism of Islam, woven into its very DNA, and the consequent urge to dominate, by force if necessary, can be counted on to provide to the world an ongoing stream of news stories about Islamic outrages, such as we read about here on a daily basis. Although attempting to be friends with Islam is a very Christian thing to do, "love your enemies" and all that, sooner or later, after being bitten enough times, a sense of self-preservation will set in, most likely first among parishioners, in what will be a sort of Christian grass roots equivalent to the Tea Party, who will then set about forcing the church leadership to abandon its present course of religious suicide.

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